Aye aye aye! Labor Day is extremely important. Thank the Labor Movement for your 40 hour work week, sick pay and safer working conditions. Put some respect on Labor Day!
life goes in circles, and so goes running. When i started running, i ran on feel, because i did not know how to run to become a faster and stronger runner Now i run on feel, despite and because of my knowledge about running. It was then and it is now all about giving the soul safety, love, happiness and peace
1 year into running and have accumulated around 1000kms in the process. Decided to do MAF while building my base as i plateaued after 6 months into running. One month into MAF and the impact can be seen already. Able to maintain zone 2 for 2 hours and slight increase in pace. Since it works for me, i will proceed with it until october and reinitiate my speedwork after that
Whoa whoa. Labor Day is to commemorate and celebrate the workers in the past who fought for our 40 hour work week, safe work spaces, and against child labor. Put a little respect on our forefathers 😊. Back to the regularly scheduled programming, I tried MAF for a year and while I improved aerobically, I also hit a hard ceiling with speed improvements. I prescribe to a bend don’t break philosophy. Can’t be dogmatic about HR or pace because you can’t control all weather conditions or how your body responds to them. 👍
@@fabianrichburgh6517 Na, they work sedentary jobs because the US moved from an industrial to service based economy in the 70/80s when high paying, unionized factory work was sent overseas
HR is sure helping me both as a game I like to play and to get me running much further than I ever could. I’m a newer runner but it make sense to me to use the hr zone that I am
HR-based approach is very effective for beginners, mainly to protect them from their egos and familiarize them with different effort levels especially when they're being coached remotely, or self-coaching. Once they develop the necessary self-awareness, then RPE is the way to go.
weird, most professional runners say otherwise. They are very tapped in to their HR when doing specific work like longer intervals or LT runs. It's crucial to know your LT and know how to work around it. For just going out and running, sure, no one really needs to watch HR when doing an easy run or just logging miles.
@@ryanmiskin8925but the arguement for the need of HR arises mainly for monitoring easy runs, as they claim that going above your "zone 2" can put you in danger of pushing too hard. That being said, most pros or people with a good amount of experience are preaching running to feel.
@@ryanmiskin8925 no pro is using HR to determine threshold. LT is inherently a feel/RPE thing that can be confirmed by testing via a lactate meter. Any pro worth their weight is using feel or effort for their intensities if not specific paces/lap times for workouts, not heart rate. don't let the coros arm strap ads fool you
@@ryanmiskin8925 I can see both of your points. I think Ed is saying that in the beginning, a new runner is often shocked at how easily their heart rate skyrockets at even a few minutes of moderate effort. It can be helpful for beginners to get in the habit of keeping it low and making peace with other runners on the trails passing them-especially runners that may appear to be less fit than themselves. But I also see your point that when training near threshold, there is a massive difference in every 5-10 seconds per mile you go faster, and a 10-seconds-too-fast pace can negate the purpose of the workout, increase recovery time, or worse, risk injury.
@edgarcia5091 Before carbon plated shoes become a thing, I ran 10-15 miles per week Jan-May. Then started training for 5th Ave mile and progressively increased the mileage but never ran more than 60 miles! After 5th Ave mile I decided to sign up for my first ever marathon in November that year, and ended up running 2:27. No carbon plated shoes, just heart rate monitor and doing what my body needs on the given day. If you just like logging high mileage and getting all the newest shoes- then do it. If you want to run fast times- train smart. Happy to share training log if anyone interested.
I ran for 4 decades before I got a watch with a heart rate monitor, so I am totally team vibes. Also, my Garmin 55 is configured to ask me to enter my "vibes" after intervals! It's nice to look at HR after a run to evaluate how it went, and whether the data matches your vibes. Watching it during a run is useful in a few situations, mainly to avoid heatstroke when it's really hot, but mostly only look after a run. Pretty soon you learn what each zone feels like.
Bro, everytime you refer to ASAP FERG, it brings back so many memories. In 2013, my car got stolen. When we got it back, it had an ASAP FERG CD in the radio. And i listened to that CD non-stop for a year. 😂
I have a similar memory. My car was stolen in 2007. When I got it back, the only cd that was taken was Freeway’s Free At Last album which only confirmed how good that record was.
Thanks Yowana! Been running for 5 months now and just completed an 18 mile long run. Dropped 5 miles of tempo run in there from miles 10-15. Your running inspired me to do that. More to come 🫡
For slowly creeping towards that philosophy, I currently do all my easy/daily runs in zone 2. I have one “workout” on Wednesday that I run and don’t care about HR and my long run is completely off feel. I just think HR running can hold you back from the benefits of running.
@@CorGP I agree, for a long while I was in the Zone 2 training area. Recently I had to take about 7-8 weeks off for an injury, losing a lot of my fitness gains, I have noticed that I'm dwelling too much over that my HR's are not what they used to be and getting really discouraged when I see my results after recent runs. I was told that since I'm getting back into it, ditch the watch for a little while and get back to yourself slowly.
I did MAF training for about 6 months to a year, and from only being able to finish 3-4 kms per run, I can now do marathon distances. After building that base, I now focus on upping my pace.
Agreed! I'm 3 months into building my base. I realize that I have years of power-lifting-induced muscle imbalances to fix. Right around mile 5 of any run, my hip flexors get facked. So trying to fix that and a little bit of anterior tilt. It's taking a lot of effort to undo my lifting habits (I still lift but not so heavy and more focused on running). Not sure if I want to do the full marathon distance or stick to half-marathons, still unsure about that. My VERY first race I want to do is a local race called Bloomsday. It's a 12k race. I'd like to be able to finish it in under 90 minutes. I have until May next year to get into that kind of shape.
Ran by feel during the COVID days enjoyed it much more than the last year when I ran by HR (coming back from injury). Results were similar, but enjoyed “by feel” miles much more.
Such an informative session! Thank you!! I was feeling so guilty or feeling like I can’t break 11 min pace. I will continue to grind and improve through good vibes!
I appreciate this sentiment. I think the key takeaway here is that MAF, zone 2, etc. are tools... and should be used on a case-by-case basis. It takes time, experience, and perspective to get to the point of running purely off "the vibes." I know few people who have been able to start running this way. Personally, I needed MAF to get myself on the right track and stay healthy as a former collegiate runner who struggled with injury & burnout. Being "restricted" by my watch and letting the "robots" tell me how to run was exactly what I needed (and sometimes still do!). Great video.
Admittedly, I started with running by vibes coz I didn’t know any better many years ago 😅😅😅 Which meant I only knew how to run fast or faster. Like you said here, I’m using my heart rate as a tool to slow me down to get those quality mileage. In other words, zone 2 is a necessary crutch for me at the moment so that I can earn running with vibes again. Hopefully when I run with vibes again, I won’t run harder than I should.
if you're a beginner just go outside and start running. you'll be able to benchmark yourself on how fast or slow you should run to maintain longer running. at the beginning you'll walk after few seconds/minutes of running but that's normal. just do this consistently and regularly. you will not immediately notice that you are improving but as you go, your body adapts. after a 1-3 months there's a huge improvement from your first ever run. at first, don't worry about too much technicalities. just go out and enjoy running. :)
Looks like there's a MAF Mafia too 😅 Thanks for sharing your insight! I personally run by feel, and if I have run within zone 2, it's probably unintentional (i.e. having to slow down because of traffic/people). I can see the benefits of HR training if I were training for a race, or looking to improve my aerobic capacity within a specific time frame. But outside of that, I prefer to not be concerned with the metrics (until after the run anyway) and I do think it makes the experience less stressful and more enjoyable. As a side, a lot of us parents working full time and balancing that with getting in the miles don't necessarily have the luxury of focusing on metrics. When you only have that one hour or so before everyones up or work starts to get the miles in, you get the miles in, at whatever pace feels great! 👍
Heart rate training isn’t just about easy running. It is also about speedwork. If you’re doing threshold then you need to ensure you’re within a heart rate zone you can keep up for an hour for instance and to improve your threshold zone. If you do all your threshold runs in the vo2 max zone for instance you’re not going to improve your threshold zone
It doesn't have to be an either or proposition. I too run by feel except for the 30% of my run that involves incline of varying degrees & I tune into my HR during those stretches. When you're facing an incline of some distance it can be hard to assess your drop off in pace (on demand) - this is where training by HR offers insight and guidance on grinding harder and pressing forward.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Lesson, to each is own. People should train or run without or with any system they choose. There are street smarts and book smarts. There are lots of well developed and tested running techniques and systems out there. The main thing is improving and enjoying the running process.
Man even if I did train by heart rate it wouldn’t be too good, as I just started running I figured out that I’m not too good, I normally ran miles but started doing 2 to 3 miles. My pr mile is like a 7.40 and I was at a 200+ heart rate for that kinda crazy, but even for easy 9 minute miles, I’m still at a 200 heart rate. I’m not obese or anything, just turned 13, 5ft 8 and I weigh 130. Like what these heart rate things wack, or maybe I’m wack idk
You're also 13. Young adults tend to have naturally high heart rates && genetically speaking, you could just have a naturally high heart rate to boot. If you use the general MHR calc of 220-13 then your MHR, according to this, would be 207. But if you're already running a 7:40 mile all-out, your fitness is likely higher than the average so the 'average' MHR calc's already don't apply. This is what Yowana was referencing about 'feel'. If it feels easy, or just slightly difficult enough to push you, then you're probably at the right place. Also, constantly looking at HR will also make your HR go up. There is a TON of stuff that impacts HR; caffeine intake and breathing being 2 big factors but for me, every time I look at my watch, my HR goes up 3-5 beats.
I'm 20 in still got a 210 max HR now (measured this back in 2020 at 16 with an HR strap) HR is a good ketric, but lately, feel is something I've been giving a try, works wonders and really makes me tune in with my body and how hard I can push that day.
I use HR and check it’s still in zone 2 with monthly lactate testing. Sometimes though zone 2 feels hard to then I just back off - So think there is a place for zone 2, MAF, and vibes.
i agree, trying to keep your heart rate in the 130-140 area for most of your long runs, when u live in a SUPER SUPER humid area like myrtle beach is just almost impossible without almost walking.....I did 14 mile long run this morning and kept my pace and effort at around 10 min to 950 pace and it felt easy even though my average heart rate was 150 at end, i felt like i could kept going past 14-15. Living in myrtle beach the weather is ALWAYS humid almost always and it is no joke this morning 88 percent humidity direct sunlight. When you live in humid areas u have go by effort, but if u have a goal marathon pr half marathon pace on race day and its super humid u just have lower your expectations when racing and start out slower. No amount of speed work, or easy aerobic work is gonna override mother nature and how humid it is. I really hope myrtle beach half and full marathon is colder this year because for last 5 races been 65-70 degrees 95 percent humidity. So im just going by feel and lowering my expectations for race dat this fall. But long runs i just go by feel, if 940-950 paces feel good i just run long run at those paces even if heart rate is 150-155
Since I switched to the Runna app for training, heart rate is a bit low on the list of priority. Runna gives me a pace to run, and I run it, regardless of HR. I find that much more fun than being concerned about what zone I'm in. I think for someone that's super new and trying to build their base, Z2 is very helpful as it prevents burn out, but once you start "wanting more", Z2 feels extremely limiting (despite the science). I also find that by diversifying my training, it keeps things interesting, less boring, and more motivated to wake up for those 5am runs.
Best think about watching heart is if you are using a stimulant like caffeine. To many new runners think they need that jump start, I get it because I went through a phase of stimulant abuse and it is dangerous.
That’s crazy because that’s how I train and that’s how I train my son lol. And I have ran all out for months and I know the benefits of slow long runs. So now I train with easy days being easy and hard days being hard.
Agreed! TLDR for my experience :I know it's different for everyone, but I got a HR monitor 4 months ago and found that Zone 2 training (with 1 speed session in the week) made it tougher to me to tap-in and maintain my fast paces. --- POSITIVE: Zone 2 training definitely made me aerobically stronger. It got me to run a half marathon in training-only the second time in my life-but this time without any water or gel to fuel me up (I didn't plan on it, nor would I recommend that. It just felt easy to do in zone 2). NEGATIVE(s): 1) when I started prepping for a potential 10k, I couldn't get anywhere close to my race pace anymore! Maybe/probably I was doing my once a week speed sessions wrong. But for whatever reason, I wasn't used to letting it rip anymore. 2) I felt more and more niggles throughout the weeks. Slow running had me repeating bad strides+foot striking. If fast running promotes good running form, then maybe the opposite is true. The past month I ditched restricting myself to Zone 2 training and have found my niggles go away and my pace slowly come back. 😃 that concludes my ted-talk haha
Great video, finally breaking the myth of zone 2. I was doing zone 2 for months - didn’t pick up any injury but wasn’t getting any faster, was obsessed about the Heart rate on the watch - didn’t enjoy my runs at all. Moved to running by feel, enjoy my runs so more and have gotten much quicker
It's not a myth. If you don't mix up your run with some speed workout then you don't get faster. Zone 2 is just an indicator that you don't run too fast on your recovery/easy days.
Zone 2 does absolutely not work for me as even if my fitness levels are good I'm pretty much walking at zone 2 and not enjoying it at all. Running where I FEEL relaxed is so much better
I’ve been following the Coros marathon training 16 week plan and I didn’t tweak it until this past Sunday. I have been running so much slower than ever. I’m literally thinking of abandoning it these last few weeks before Berlin. The app even told me my fitness decreased 😩 lol. I used to run on feel and my paces were faster and I felt stronger. I had a strong 18 miler this weekend when I went rogue and didn’t follow the prescribed plan lol best run ever 😭 in the Endorphin pro 4s btw lol.
Don't let the coros fitness predictor lie to you! 😂 It was telling me I could run a 17:18 5k when I literally ran that within a 24 mile long run ... thing is tripping. But glad to hear you made a breakthrough recently. Trust your gut and you'll crush Berlin
If I trained by heart rate then I wouldn't have ran my last marathon the way I did. I had a 185ish avg HR, I honestly felt great the whole time and as if I had the perfect marathon pace going, I looked at my wrist and just knew I had to ignore it. During my tempo workouts with marathon pace, my HR never went to 180 for context I got a garmin last year, but prior to that I never had a HR monitor. After meeting lots of runners and seeing 100% of them with garmins, I felt pressured into getting one haha
I am trying out to put my breathing in the center of my run, with various kinds of rhythm for different kinds of effort. The fine tuning comes with adjusting the steps per minute. I learned my correlation between breathing to heart rate i have. ( It will change, if my fitnes changes, so i have to check it from time to time.) All this mumbo jumbo helps me to just listen to my breathing and my footsteps, and i know my heart rate and the aproximate pace, all without looking at a watch. Though i have to take in the equation the temps and the hills to get the pace right, For me the pace is the least important, more important i can listen to the sound i make and the sound of nature, and at some point drift away into dreamland and become one with nature........although i have lots of paved roads to run on, i usually are out of sight from any house within 3 minutes and are mostly alone in nature with only a few houses and maybe a 3 cars in 90 minutes
I train by feel also. I don’t like my watch beeping at me all the time haha. I think hobby joggers value enjoyment more than optimizing progress. Once you train scientifically to fast track improvement, then maybe you’re a serious runner? Love your vids Yowana, keep it up 🫡😊
I try to do HR training and keep my HR at or below 150 the majority of my runs but I'm in the base building phase in that, I still can't run more than 50-55 minutes at a time with an easy pace. Which equates to about 5-miles before my hips start giving me problems which is a strength thing, I think. Just depends on the person. You're regularly doing 100-mile weeks, so your base is already built. You've got a Roman foundation, so for you, you probably don't need that kind of training. :)
If its 90 degrees with 100 percent humidity and I’m gearing up for a A goal 5k ultra, I definitely stay in zone 2, alpha fly 3s really sing when i hit the two, scream with the three, straight vibez
Best way to use tech for me is to have Elise Cranny as my AI girlfriend. For real though, training by effort is the way to go for me lately, I love doing 3-5 stages of progression per 10k - 20k run and just moving through the gears multiple times. Nothing feels better to me than a slow build then some good time at half-marathon pace and faster followed by easing up on the gas just to hit it again.
14:27 best point made in the video bro. HR training breaks down when you have anything that makes your HR deviate from baseline- this includes caffeine (even if several hours prior to aerobic event), stress, heat, medications , etc. So yea, HR training is not great for the vast majority of runners. MidLifeRunner is about to hate us 😢😅
I tend to run in a hilly environment and it´s not possible to keep a consistently low HR. My watch would beep all the time and it would break the flow of running. That why I go by running power or effort level but am more relaxed about the exact metrics than I´ve been in the past. I´m a hobby jogger and not a single bug cares for my stats.
Sometimes i ran and felt great despite my HR is above 155 and sometimes i ran and felt sluggish despite HR below 150😅😅 so imo HR based training is only a guide.. for easy run, vibing, conversing or singing during easy run but when doing speedwork, maybe consider ur HR as u dont want to get cardio problem😊😊
Didn't find this in the video, maybe I missed. Help me to understand please. When you're talking about running by feelings, do you assess your perceived exertion in the beginning of the exercise, remembering that pace and trying to keep it during the whole run? Or you're just slowing down towards the end of your training session, since the fatigue accumulates and the perceived exertion feels higher towards the end, so you have to slow down to keep the RPE at the same level? I mean, for example, when I run a marathon, in order to finish I have to start on RPE around 5, not higher. But that same pace will feel as RPE 8 during the last miles of the race, right?
Great question - I generally try not to slow down during runs, so I'll go out at a pace I know I can sustain for the entire run. This is one of the benefits of using zone 2 or maf training - you'll be running at an effort that you can hold for a long time. But I've learned now what that effort/pace is without relying on the data. Race paces will definitely feel more challenging toward the end of a run
If you go by some very very experienced coach's and research's you'll find that if you get your perceived effort right your easy pace will be in your zone 2 naturally . The reality is most people don't know their correct heart rates anyway.
MAF is illogical goofiness. I am still irritated to this day that I spent money on that stupid book. I couldn't even finish half of the book because how goofy that "method" is.
Nah, this is BS. Trust science observe the evidence.. Going too slow is never the problem on your normal days. Overtraining is a thing, you might adapt to it and not get injured or sick, but eventually it will get in the way of your progress. Look at how the majority of the worlds best endurance athletes train. I believe spending too much time above zone two too often might result in Cardiovascular Damage Resulting from Chronic Excessive Endurance Exercise. One problem is that you might not know your lactate threshold as you progress, but for the most of your training you can not go too slow. Don't let your feelings hold you back.
Run slow to get faster, the amount of videos stating this misinformation is quite frankly ridiculous and is at this point just pure click bait. Run slow to get faster... really? So what are speed intervals and threshold work for...?? Run slow to endure running faster, run hills to endure running faster, run fast to improve your speed. Everything in moderation.
Run slow to get faster is not a misinformation, because it prevents for starters or rejoiners in the running community the necessary injury risks which often take place, when you increase your mileage. So to start slow and over short distances makes sense. And mostly it is stated that you should run slow to get your mileage in and then fokus on your 2 workouts a week where you made speedruns, intervalls, hill runs, threshold or whatever. 2 key workouts with the most concentration and effort specific for your goals and the rest to build the foundation is simply clever running to not get injured and make decent progression. Of course you can also run only be feel (i like that myself, and not everytime a planned session can be done in the manner it was concepted), but if you have a specific goal, like a marathon in sub 3 hours, it is better to plan the training more.
With 23 minutes at your disposal there should be time to properly explain what Zone 2 and MAF training are. There are other, more legitimate ways of training by heart rate than the two flimsy straw men you use as examples here.
Talking about training and HR makes you sound like a 🤡 after working with top physiologist that lead 140+ athletes to an Olympic medal (in running and cycling), hearing about running without HRM and relying on "fake feeling" just sounds ridiculous. Doing high mileage will help you (and anyone else that has as much time on their hands as you do), but keep in mind that it's like trying to fill up a bottle with liquid and using a huge bucket for it. A lot of miles and hours are just spilled/wasted (don't get into the bottle), running with HRM is like adding a funnel to ensure that nothing gets spilled and you get the MOST out of the time and effort that you put it.
@@supwell sorry you feel that way. misleading people that perhaps look up to you, and talking about the field that’s not even remotely close to you- that’s not good vibes.
Aye aye aye! Labor Day is extremely important. Thank the Labor Movement for your 40 hour work week, sick pay and safer working conditions. Put some respect on Labor Day!
Respect for May Day, the true labor day!
Henry Ford created the 40-hour work week, not the “Labor Movement”.
Yes!
@@thadbiser he created. It became widespread due to the labor movement. As were the other things I mentioned.
life goes in circles, and so goes running.
When i started running, i ran on feel, because i did not know how to run to become a faster and stronger runner
Now i run on feel, despite and because of my knowledge about running.
It was then and it is now all about giving the soul safety, love, happiness and peace
As a Texan I needed this. I get slow over the summer but then hr is up from the heat and direct sunlight
1 year into running and have accumulated around 1000kms in the process. Decided to do MAF while building my base as i plateaued after 6 months into running. One month into MAF and the impact can be seen already. Able to maintain zone 2 for 2 hours and slight increase in pace. Since it works for me, i will proceed with it until october and reinitiate my speedwork after that
Whoa whoa. Labor Day is to commemorate and celebrate the workers in the past who fought for our 40 hour work week, safe work spaces, and against child labor. Put a little respect on our forefathers 😊. Back to the regularly scheduled programming, I tried MAF for a year and while I improved aerobically, I also hit a hard ceiling with speed improvements. I prescribe to a bend don’t break philosophy. Can’t be dogmatic about HR or pace because you can’t control all weather conditions or how your body responds to them. 👍
Is that why people spend most of their lives working sedentary jobs until death?
@@fabianrichburgh6517 Na, they work sedentary jobs because the US moved from an industrial to service based economy in the 70/80s when high paying, unionized factory work was sent overseas
@@Shipwreckruns those jobs aren't going to be high paying ever again
@@mackiechang sad but true
I was gonna say...Labor Day is probably the MOST important holiday we have lol
I needed to hear this so bad. Florida summer has been brutal and staying in zone is brutal. I appreciate you brother 🙏
Glad it was helpful man - keep getting those miles in 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Loving the supwell app my man!
Thank you for being part of the community!!! 🙌🏽🫡
The post I so needed!! I bought so much wearable tech as a beginner robbed me of the joy of running! Vibing now
HR is sure helping me both as a game I like to play and to get me running much further than I ever could. I’m a newer runner but it make sense to me to use the hr zone that I am
HR-based approach is very effective for beginners, mainly to protect them from their egos and familiarize them with different effort levels especially when they're being coached remotely, or self-coaching. Once they develop the necessary self-awareness, then RPE is the way to go.
weird, most professional runners say otherwise. They are very tapped in to their HR when doing specific work like longer intervals or LT runs. It's crucial to know your LT and know how to work around it. For just going out and running, sure, no one really needs to watch HR when doing an easy run or just logging miles.
@@ryanmiskin8925but the arguement for the need of HR arises mainly for monitoring easy runs, as they claim that going above your "zone 2" can put you in danger of pushing too hard. That being said, most pros or people with a good amount of experience are preaching running to feel.
@@ryanmiskin8925 no pro is using HR to determine threshold. LT is inherently a feel/RPE thing that can be confirmed by testing via a lactate meter. Any pro worth their weight is using feel or effort for their intensities if not specific paces/lap times for workouts, not heart rate. don't let the coros arm strap ads fool you
@@ryanmiskin8925 I can see both of your points. I think Ed is saying that in the beginning, a new runner is often shocked at how easily their heart rate skyrockets at even a few minutes of moderate effort. It can be helpful for beginners to get in the habit of keeping it low and making peace with other runners on the trails passing them-especially runners that may appear to be less fit than themselves. But I also see your point that when training near threshold, there is a massive difference in every 5-10 seconds per mile you go faster, and a 10-seconds-too-fast pace can negate the purpose of the workout, increase recovery time, or worse, risk injury.
@edgarcia5091 Before carbon plated shoes become a thing, I ran 10-15 miles per week Jan-May. Then started training for 5th Ave mile and progressively increased the mileage but never ran more than 60 miles! After 5th Ave mile I decided to sign up for my first ever marathon in November that year, and ended up running 2:27.
No carbon plated shoes, just heart rate monitor and doing what my body needs on the given day. If you just like logging high mileage and getting all the newest shoes- then do it. If you want to run fast times- train smart.
Happy to share training log if anyone interested.
I ran for 4 decades before I got a watch with a heart rate monitor, so I am totally team vibes. Also, my Garmin 55 is configured to ask me to enter my "vibes" after intervals!
It's nice to look at HR after a run to evaluate how it went, and whether the data matches your vibes. Watching it during a run is useful in a few situations, mainly to avoid heatstroke when it's really hot, but mostly only look after a run. Pretty soon you learn what each zone feels like.
MT Gang and shoutout to the homie at 19:03 !
✌️😂
Need to invite that dude to the program, and run one of these days. Bang
Bro, everytime you refer to ASAP FERG, it brings back so many memories.
In 2013, my car got stolen. When we got it back, it had an ASAP FERG CD in the radio. And i listened to that CD non-stop for a year. 😂
LMAO
I have a similar memory. My car was stolen in 2007. When I got it back, the only cd that was taken was Freeway’s Free At Last album which only confirmed how good that record was.
Hahaha man that is legendary. Talk about shenanigans 😂
@@supwell bro, my past is a mess! 2015 and before was.. WHOA.
Thanks Yowana! Been running for 5 months now and just completed an 18 mile long run. Dropped 5 miles of tempo run in there from miles 10-15. Your running inspired me to do that. More to come 🫡
Ayyy nice work! Love to hear about the progress 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I switched to running by feel and never going back to Zone 2 or MAF.
For slowly creeping towards that philosophy, I currently do all my easy/daily runs in zone 2. I have one “workout” on Wednesday that I run and don’t care about HR and my long run is completely off feel. I just think HR running can hold you back from the benefits of running.
@@CorGP I agree, for a long while I was in the Zone 2 training area. Recently I had to take about 7-8 weeks off for an injury, losing a lot of my fitness gains, I have noticed that I'm dwelling too much over that my HR's are not what they used to be and getting really discouraged when I see my results after recent runs. I was told that since I'm getting back into it, ditch the watch for a little while and get back to yourself slowly.
I did MAF training for about 6 months to a year, and from only being able to finish 3-4 kms per run, I can now do marathon distances. After building that base, I now focus on upping my pace.
Agreed! I'm 3 months into building my base. I realize that I have years of power-lifting-induced muscle imbalances to fix. Right around mile 5 of any run, my hip flexors get facked. So trying to fix that and a little bit of anterior tilt. It's taking a lot of effort to undo my lifting habits (I still lift but not so heavy and more focused on running). Not sure if I want to do the full marathon distance or stick to half-marathons, still unsure about that. My VERY first race I want to do is a local race called Bloomsday. It's a 12k race. I'd like to be able to finish it in under 90 minutes. I have until May next year to get into that kind of shape.
@@saikame5833 All the best in your race! 🔥
@@saikame5833 good luck with your race! 🔥
Thank you for putting in that extra work to give us another great training video 🙏 Excited to support the Supwell app!
Thank you Sean!!! I appreciate all the support since 2023 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
@@supwell of course bro! Keep killing it!
The Pfitzinger heart rate method has been very effective marathon training for my sub-3 goals. HR training is not just for beginners.
I always appreciate this Malcolm Gladwellian takes on training.
😂
Fulfilment > enjoyment
Process > pleasure
your point about vibes is very true. Pushing yourself occasionally is very important as you said too
Ran by feel during the COVID days enjoyed it much more than the last year when I ran by HR (coming back from injury). Results were similar, but enjoyed “by feel” miles much more.
Best dude in the running space rn 👏😭
Such an informative session! Thank you!! I was feeling so guilty or feeling like I can’t break 11 min pace. I will continue to grind and improve through good vibes!
Big Channel Gang... BANG
💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
I appreciate this sentiment. I think the key takeaway here is that MAF, zone 2, etc. are tools... and should be used on a case-by-case basis. It takes time, experience, and perspective to get to the point of running purely off "the vibes." I know few people who have been able to start running this way. Personally, I needed MAF to get myself on the right track and stay healthy as a former collegiate runner who struggled with injury & burnout. Being "restricted" by my watch and letting the "robots" tell me how to run was exactly what I needed (and sometimes still do!). Great video.
Admittedly, I started with running by vibes coz I didn’t know any better many years ago 😅😅😅
Which meant I only knew how to run fast or faster.
Like you said here, I’m using my heart rate as a tool to slow me down to get those quality mileage. In other words, zone 2 is a necessary crutch for me at the moment so that I can earn running with vibes again.
Hopefully when I run with vibes again, I won’t run harder than I should.
... I am learning so much!
if you're a beginner just go outside and start running. you'll be able to benchmark yourself on how fast or slow you should run to maintain longer running. at the beginning you'll walk after few seconds/minutes of running but that's normal. just do this consistently and regularly. you will not immediately notice that you are improving but as you go, your body adapts. after a 1-3 months there's a huge improvement from your first ever run. at first, don't worry about too much technicalities. just go out and enjoy running. :)
Watching during my lunch hour in Japan!
Now that's fire. Shoutout Japan 🙌🏽
Looks like there's a MAF Mafia too 😅 Thanks for sharing your insight!
I personally run by feel, and if I have run within zone 2, it's probably unintentional (i.e. having to slow down because of traffic/people). I can see the benefits of HR training if I were training for a race, or looking to improve my aerobic capacity within a specific time frame. But outside of that, I prefer to not be concerned with the metrics (until after the run anyway) and I do think it makes the experience less stressful and more enjoyable.
As a side, a lot of us parents working full time and balancing that with getting in the miles don't necessarily have the luxury of focusing on metrics. When you only have that one hour or so before everyones up or work starts to get the miles in, you get the miles in, at whatever pace feels great! 👍
Finally someone said it.
Heart rate training isn’t just about easy running. It is also about speedwork. If you’re doing threshold then you need to ensure you’re within a heart rate zone you can keep up for an hour for instance and to improve your threshold zone. If you do all your threshold runs in the vo2 max zone for instance you’re not going to improve your threshold zone
Gain awareness through tracking, then let the body be your guide 🙏 My motto for life 😊
It doesn't have to be an either or proposition. I too run by feel except for the 30% of my run that involves incline of varying degrees & I tune into my HR during those stretches. When you're facing an incline of some distance it can be hard to assess your drop off in pace (on demand) - this is where training by HR offers insight and guidance on grinding harder and pressing forward.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. Lesson, to each is own. People should train or run without or with any system they choose. There are street smarts and book smarts. There are lots of well developed and tested running techniques and systems out there. The main thing is improving and enjoying the running process.
5 miles on a bike for a 5 year-old is awesome. Mason could be an absolute beast on her high school track team. :)
Hahaha she is definitely putting in the work as they say
Shout out to💗 MASON!!!! 🚲🚲🚲
Man even if I did train by heart rate it wouldn’t be too good, as I just started running I figured out that I’m not too good, I normally ran miles but started doing 2 to 3 miles. My pr mile is like a 7.40 and I was at a 200+ heart rate for that kinda crazy, but even for easy 9 minute miles, I’m still at a 200 heart rate. I’m not obese or anything, just turned 13, 5ft 8 and I weigh 130. Like what these heart rate things wack, or maybe I’m wack idk
You're also 13. Young adults tend to have naturally high heart rates && genetically speaking, you could just have a naturally high heart rate to boot. If you use the general MHR calc of 220-13 then your MHR, according to this, would be 207. But if you're already running a 7:40 mile all-out, your fitness is likely higher than the average so the 'average' MHR calc's already don't apply. This is what Yowana was referencing about 'feel'. If it feels easy, or just slightly difficult enough to push you, then you're probably at the right place. Also, constantly looking at HR will also make your HR go up. There is a TON of stuff that impacts HR; caffeine intake and breathing being 2 big factors but for me, every time I look at my watch, my HR goes up 3-5 beats.
I'm 20 in still got a 210 max HR now (measured this back in 2020 at 16 with an HR strap) HR is a good ketric, but lately, feel is something I've been giving a try, works wonders and really makes me tune in with my body and how hard I can push that day.
@@emmanuelnocete135 thanks
@@saikame5833 thanks a lot
I use HR and check it’s still in zone 2 with monthly lactate testing. Sometimes though zone 2 feels hard to then I just back off - So think there is a place for zone 2, MAF, and vibes.
i agree, trying to keep your heart rate in the 130-140 area for most of your long runs, when u live in a SUPER SUPER humid area like myrtle beach is just almost impossible without almost walking.....I did 14 mile long run this morning and kept my pace and effort at around 10 min to 950 pace and it felt easy even though my average heart rate was 150 at end, i felt like i could kept going past 14-15. Living in myrtle beach the weather is ALWAYS humid almost always and it is no joke this morning 88 percent humidity direct sunlight. When you live in humid areas u have go by effort, but if u have a goal marathon pr half marathon pace on race day and its super humid u just have lower your expectations when racing and start out slower. No amount of speed work, or easy aerobic work is gonna override mother nature and how humid it is. I really hope myrtle beach half and full marathon is colder this year because for last 5 races been 65-70 degrees 95 percent humidity. So im just going by feel and lowering my expectations for race dat this fall. But long runs i just go by feel, if 940-950 paces feel good i just run long run at those paces even if heart rate is 150-155
Since I switched to the Runna app for training, heart rate is a bit low on the list of priority. Runna gives me a pace to run, and I run it, regardless of HR. I find that much more fun than being concerned about what zone I'm in. I think for someone that's super new and trying to build their base, Z2 is very helpful as it prevents burn out, but once you start "wanting more", Z2 feels extremely limiting (despite the science). I also find that by diversifying my training, it keeps things interesting, less boring, and more motivated to wake up for those 5am runs.
Yooo good job, feeling lucky I’m seeing this just as you upload!
Best think about watching heart is if you are using a stimulant like caffeine. To many new runners think they need that jump start, I get it because I went through a phase of stimulant abuse and it is dangerous.
That’s crazy because that’s how I train and that’s how I train my son lol. And I have ran all out for months and I know the benefits of slow long runs. So now I train with easy days being easy and hard days being hard.
Agreed!
TLDR for my experience :I know it's different for everyone, but I got a HR monitor 4 months ago and found that Zone 2 training (with 1 speed session in the week) made it tougher to me to tap-in and maintain my fast paces.
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POSITIVE: Zone 2 training definitely made me aerobically stronger. It got me to run a half marathon in training-only the second time in my life-but this time without any water or gel to fuel me up (I didn't plan on it, nor would I recommend that. It just felt easy to do in zone 2).
NEGATIVE(s):
1) when I started prepping for a potential 10k, I couldn't get anywhere close to my race pace anymore! Maybe/probably I was doing my once a week speed sessions wrong. But for whatever reason, I wasn't used to letting it rip anymore.
2) I felt more and more niggles throughout the weeks. Slow running had me repeating bad strides+foot striking. If fast running promotes good running form, then maybe the opposite is true.
The past month I ditched restricting myself to Zone 2 training and have found my niggles go away and my pace slowly come back.
😃 that concludes my ted-talk haha
I love it! Bro you gotta post this on the Supwell app 😂
Great video, finally breaking the myth of zone 2. I was doing zone 2 for months - didn’t pick up any injury but wasn’t getting any faster, was obsessed about the Heart rate on the watch - didn’t enjoy my runs at all. Moved to running by feel, enjoy my runs so more and have gotten much quicker
Were you mixing in any speed work? You have to train for speed *too* .
It's not a myth. If you don't mix up your run with some speed workout then you don't get faster. Zone 2 is just an indicator that you don't run too fast on your recovery/easy days.
People who just run by feel always seem to enjoy running more. I only use HR data after the run to see improvement from past workouts
fully agree with you here 🤝
Zone 2 does absolutely not work for me as even if my fitness levels are good I'm pretty much walking at zone 2 and not enjoying it at all. Running where I FEEL relaxed is so much better
I’ve been following the Coros marathon training 16 week plan and I didn’t tweak it until this past Sunday. I have been running so much slower than ever. I’m literally thinking of abandoning it these last few weeks before Berlin. The app even told me my fitness decreased 😩 lol. I used to run on feel and my paces were faster and I felt stronger. I had a strong 18 miler this weekend when I went rogue and didn’t follow the prescribed plan lol best run ever 😭 in the Endorphin pro 4s btw lol.
Don't let the coros fitness predictor lie to you! 😂 It was telling me I could run a 17:18 5k when I literally ran that within a 24 mile long run ... thing is tripping. But glad to hear you made a breakthrough recently. Trust your gut and you'll crush Berlin
Thank you! 🙏🏽
Badaboom, Badabang!!! 🔥 #upyourbestgang
If I trained by heart rate then I wouldn't have ran my last marathon the way I did. I had a 185ish avg HR, I honestly felt great the whole time and as if I had the perfect marathon pace going, I looked at my wrist and just knew I had to ignore it. During my tempo workouts with marathon pace, my HR never went to 180 for context
I got a garmin last year, but prior to that I never had a HR monitor. After meeting lots of runners and seeing 100% of them with garmins, I felt pressured into getting one haha
two style training are complementary maybe..? Freestyle Run! Hobby joggers doing running cypher in Supwell app.
I am trying out to put my breathing in the center of my run, with various kinds of rhythm for different kinds of effort. The fine tuning comes with adjusting the steps per minute. I learned my correlation between breathing to heart rate i have. ( It will change, if my fitnes changes, so i have to check it from time to time.)
All this mumbo jumbo helps me to just listen to my breathing and my footsteps, and i know my heart rate and the aproximate pace, all without looking at a watch. Though i have to take in the equation the temps and the hills to get the pace right, For me the pace is the least important, more important i can listen to the sound i make and the sound of nature, and at some point drift away into dreamland and become one with nature........although i have lots of paved roads to run on, i usually are out of sight from any house within 3 minutes and are mostly alone in nature with only a few houses and maybe a 3 cars in 90 minutes
I train by feel also. I don’t like my watch beeping at me all the time haha. I think hobby joggers value enjoyment more than optimizing progress. Once you train scientifically to fast track improvement, then maybe you’re a serious runner? Love your vids Yowana, keep it up 🫡😊
I try to do HR training and keep my HR at or below 150 the majority of my runs but I'm in the base building phase in that, I still can't run more than 50-55 minutes at a time with an easy pace. Which equates to about 5-miles before my hips start giving me problems which is a strength thing, I think. Just depends on the person. You're regularly doing 100-mile weeks, so your base is already built. You've got a Roman foundation, so for you, you probably don't need that kind of training. :)
If its 90 degrees with 100 percent humidity and I’m gearing up for a A goal 5k ultra, I definitely stay in zone 2, alpha fly 3s really sing when i hit the two, scream with the three, straight vibez
Thank you for this
Vibes >> 😎
Best way to use tech for me is to have Elise Cranny as my AI girlfriend. For real though, training by effort is the way to go for me lately, I love doing 3-5 stages of progression per 10k - 20k run and just moving through the gears multiple times. Nothing feels better to me than a slow build then some good time at half-marathon pace and faster followed by easing up on the gas just to hit it again.
14:27 best point made in the video bro.
HR training breaks down when you have anything that makes your HR deviate from baseline- this includes caffeine (even if several hours prior to aerobic event), stress, heat, medications , etc.
So yea, HR training is not great for the vast majority of runners.
MidLifeRunner is about to hate us 😢😅
I tend to run in a hilly environment and it´s not possible to keep a consistently low HR. My watch would beep all the time and it would break the flow of running. That why I go by running power or effort level but am more relaxed about the exact metrics than I´ve been in the past. I´m a hobby jogger and not a single bug cares for my stats.
I based my entire workout routine on the Norwegian method without lactate meters using heart rate as approximations. I am in shambles.
Who wins in the battle of 5 points? MT vs LHR gang V. Barefoot mafia V Run Club Cartel v. RR (real runners)
My money’s on the very-winded Clydesdales (for the vibes)
Hi, if you are upgrading, can you get a wind muff. Thank you. If you have a YT "Thank you", we can chip in.
i totally agree with this
HR alarms on Apple watch ruin runs for me. So much better when I shut them off.
Analysis Paralysis. Vibes/feel > zone 2/maf etc.
Sometimes i ran and felt great despite my HR is above 155 and sometimes i ran and felt sluggish despite HR below 150😅😅 so imo HR based training is only a guide.. for easy run, vibing, conversing or singing during easy run but when doing speedwork, maybe consider ur HR as u dont want to get cardio problem😊😊
Didn't find this in the video, maybe I missed. Help me to understand please. When you're talking about running by feelings, do you assess your perceived exertion in the beginning of the exercise, remembering that pace and trying to keep it during the whole run? Or you're just slowing down towards the end of your training session, since the fatigue accumulates and the perceived exertion feels higher towards the end, so you have to slow down to keep the RPE at the same level? I mean, for example, when I run a marathon, in order to finish I have to start on RPE around 5, not higher. But that same pace will feel as RPE 8 during the last miles of the race, right?
Great question - I generally try not to slow down during runs, so I'll go out at a pace I know I can sustain for the entire run. This is one of the benefits of using zone 2 or maf training - you'll be running at an effort that you can hold for a long time. But I've learned now what that effort/pace is without relying on the data. Race paces will definitely feel more challenging toward the end of a run
If you go by some very very experienced coach's and research's you'll find that if you get your perceived effort right your easy pace will be in your zone 2 naturally . The reality is most people don't know their correct heart rates anyway.
Good vibes🤟
Wow I’ve never been this early
I just hate painful runs. Run fast occasionally to have a need for speed.
19:02 hey
19:01 who are you? 😂❤
🤣
VIBES
Going to be no fun running at zone 2 for runners that live by a place with lots of hills ...
Say it louder for the people in the back, Yowana!!!!
💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
Jesus rolls past on a unicycle, the only time our man doesn't turn to check it out...😮
👍🏻
MAF is illogical goofiness. I am still irritated to this day that I spent money on that stupid book. I couldn't even finish half of the book because how goofy that "method" is.
Nah, this is BS. Trust science observe the evidence.. Going too slow is never the problem on your normal days. Overtraining is a thing, you might adapt to it and not get injured or sick, but eventually it will get in the way of your progress. Look at how the majority of the worlds best endurance athletes train. I believe spending too much time above zone two too often might result in Cardiovascular Damage Resulting from Chronic Excessive Endurance Exercise. One problem is that you might not know your lactate threshold as you progress, but for the most of your training you can not go too slow. Don't let your feelings hold you back.
ua-cam.com/video/uNrN9MAJSYg/v-deo.html
Run slow to get faster, the amount of videos stating this misinformation is quite frankly ridiculous and is at this point just pure click bait.
Run slow to get faster... really? So what are speed intervals and threshold work for...??
Run slow to endure running faster, run hills to endure running faster, run fast to improve your speed.
Everything in moderation.
Yes, it should say 'run slow to get faster at a lower heart rate'. It is pretty effective.
Run slow to get faster is not a misinformation, because it prevents for starters or rejoiners in the running community the necessary injury risks which often take place, when you increase your mileage. So to start slow and over short distances makes sense.
And mostly it is stated that you should run slow to get your mileage in and then fokus on your 2 workouts a week where you made speedruns, intervalls, hill runs, threshold or whatever. 2 key workouts with the most concentration and effort specific for your goals and the rest to build the foundation is simply clever running to not get injured and make decent progression.
Of course you can also run only be feel (i like that myself, and not everytime a planned session can be done in the manner it was concepted), but if you have a specific goal, like a marathon in sub 3 hours, it is better to plan the training more.
My personal motto is you have to learn to run slow first before you learn to run fast
With 23 minutes at your disposal there should be time to properly explain what Zone 2 and MAF training are.
There are other, more legitimate ways of training by heart rate than the two flimsy straw men you use as examples here.
Talking about training and HR makes you sound like a 🤡 after working with top physiologist that lead 140+ athletes to an Olympic medal (in running and cycling), hearing about running without HRM and relying on "fake feeling" just sounds ridiculous. Doing high mileage will help you (and anyone else that has as much time on their hands as you do), but keep in mind that it's like trying to fill up a bottle with liquid and using a huge bucket for it. A lot of miles and hours are just spilled/wasted (don't get into the bottle), running with HRM is like adding a funnel to ensure that nothing gets spilled and you get the MOST out of the time and effort that you put it.
This comment is not good vibes 😕
@@supwell sorry you feel that way. misleading people that perhaps look up to you, and talking about the field that’s not even remotely close to you- that’s not good vibes.
That’s right, throw some shade on that commie holiday. 😊