Dog Genetics for Writers & Artists part 1: Black, Red, & Brindle [CC]
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2024
- WELCOME TO MY TWISTED MIND.
Also the Agouti Locus/ASIP was named after Agouti, not the other way around, but I hope my example/metaphor thing still makes sense.
Sorry for the Steven Universe spoilers, I guess.
sad meme music from me cry about transposons: • Sad Romance (a.k.a. Sa...
Genetic Animals mod for Minecraft: www.curseforge.com/minecraft/...
You can also join their awesome genetics Discord server, open to newbies & the experienced alike: / discord
Terminology Google doc mentioned in the video: docs.google.com/document/d/1M...
Sources/Further reading:
Dominant black, recessive black, & black markings: doggenetics.co.uk/black.htm
Black wolves have dogs’ KB allele: sci-hub.st/10.1126/science.11...
Black dogs having amber/copper eyes: doggenetics.co.uk/eyes.html
Defines a “sable” hair: coatsandcolors.com/sable-merle/
K locus dominance order & interactions: animalgenetics.com/dog-tests/...
Brindle overview: doggenetics.co.uk/brindle.html
Recombination event & random variegated expression: coatsandcolors.com/brindle-kbr/ more brindle: academic.oup.com/genetics/art...
more brindle: academic.oup.com/jhered/artic...
more brindle: www.mdpi.com/2073-4425/11/7/739 mentions brindle changing between generations: / 1197296544245488
K locus alleles on Mc1r, kbr as an “unstable allele”: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
“Unstable” alleles (transposition): bio.libretexts.org/Bookshelve...
A locus alleles: doggenetics.co.uk/tan.html
An agouti hair from an aw-expressing dog: dogdiscoveries.com/curiosity/...
New A-locus alleles (asy & abs): vgl.ucdavis.edu/test/agouti-dog
Recessive black: doggenetics.co.uk/black.htm#re...
Alleles & locus for RALY: www.pawprintgenetics.com/prod...
Confirming that As is a separate locus from A that modifies A that’s just badly named bc at this point I’m starting to lose my mind over dog breeders being bad at naming everything: www.pawprintgenetics.com/blog...
“Wtf is a transposon?” here you go: • Transposons Animation ...
Comic sans is used to aid viewers w/Dyslexia, since this video is particularly text- & letter-heavy.
my patreon: / littlehungrywarrior
my warriors tumblr: / littlehungrywarriorcats
ko-fi: ko-fi.com/ellisonmurphy
00:00 - Intro
01:41 - Black vs Red vs Agouti
07:50 - K locus
13:10 - A locus
13:49 - Sable (all 3)
16:29 - Agouti/Wolf Gray
17:42 - Saddle
18:02 - Tan Points
19:02 - Recessive Black
19:40 - Creeping Tan
20:46 - Practice Squares - Розваги
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I know it has NOTHING to do with the video, but your fursona pacing around with a bowl of soup and your friend cracking out an ancient Egyptian Punt analogy for your situation is gold
THANKS it was even funnier irl im glad i got the humor across. me having a full-on several hour meltdown and my friend's response is to casually bring up punt.
funfact that makes it even better: she will bring up punt over most things. this happens at least once a month. imagine ur trying to eat ur soup but dog genetics are Killing You and your friend brings out the ol' Punt Analogy without batting an eye
dog genetics terminology HAS to be the exact opposite to snakes. when it comes to snakes people try their hardest to keep the words the same, even if its just a similar morph in a different species. however, it appears the people making the words for dogs just do whatever they want forever.
At first I didn't read the "DOG genetics" part so I just thought it was another extra episode for the Cat Genetics series, but then I saw the dog head and It FCKING JUMPSCARED ME 😭 Btw good video lol, I had a mini heart attack with the thumbnail, but totally worth it 💋
this is the Dog Locus it turns the cat into a fuckin., doberman
An explanation for the confusing saddle; Saddle is more so calling what the markings looks like than what it actually IS. Just like how 'mask' just means 'distinct face markings' whatever the gene causing it.
LETS GO NEW GENETICS SERIES
MURPHY IS POPPIN OFF WITH THE DOG KNOWLEDGE 🗣🗣🗣
edit: bro...the little puppy you drew for examples is so cute look at em'
Don't worry, I just got through a cell biology class and I'm still not very sure what transpozons are.
It's so messed up compared to cat genetics...
Gotta love how dogs have distinct breeds 100% of the time whereas cats are most of the time "am cat with these colors and patterns. What breed? Am cat"
Dog (random example): my mom was a beagle and my dad was a Doberman and those two things make me this combination, and knowing which breeds matters a lot
Cat: my parents are cats who looked like this and that, so I am a cat who looks like this
Honest to god it’s messed up compared to other animal genetics aswell.
Horse genetics? Sooty and liver is a complete fucking mystery but only because it hasn’t been mapped much, the rest is overall coherent
Mice and rats?: They have a crap ton of dilutions but most of it is coherent, and we have most of their genome mapped due to being lab animals
I don’t think I grasp how chinchilla and tortieshell works in rabbits but maybe it’s just because most sites don’t offer a comprehensive enough guide.
The type of animal that I can think of that has as confusing genetics as dogs are actually different types of snakes, but in their excuse they actually have more pigments going on than just yellow and black.
Also with dogs it doesn’t help that there are a bunch of overlapping names, and straight up shit that hasn’t been looked into or isn’t documented on the internet (we have no fucking clue what causes dalmatian like spotting)
@@No-longer1 Dalmatian spotting is a form of ticking, i read somewhere once a theory that their spotting came from english setters but i havent found oroof of this since 😁
@@No-longer1 goats. goats have very odd coloring genetics
@@eclipsedmoon87cats also have distinct breeds actually. Most people have mixed breed cats rather than distinct breeds of cat such as Abyssinian, the Egyptian mau, etc.
AAAAAAAAAA ITS HERE ITS HERE ITS HERE IM SO SO SO EXCITED OUR LIEGE HAS UPLOADED THE UPLOAD OF THE CENTURY AAAAAA TIME TO LEARN FUN GENENTICS STUFF MY AUTISM IS ASCENDING TO ANGELIC LEVELS
Had to desperately jump into the comments to let you know we're *pretty* sure we've narrowed Punt to Eritrea, Ethiopia and part of Sudan, though it is most likely to be same broad geography of the ancient kingdom of Adulis! Mummified baboon mitochondrial DNA pointed the way!
oh fuck yes I was hoping someone would comment punt info
When you got to the brindles and the sad music came on, I laughed so hard I fell of my bed because it's so relatable!! It honestly took a whole month to just see what the fudge was happening since I wasn't even remotely interested in dogs until then and I didn't even know that was a thing. I started researching dog genetics right about you finished your cat genetics and at that time I wasn't very versed in how color genetics worked as a whole so I never questioned why wolf gray was the only allele in the A locus that has banded hairs but thinking of it now, I completely understand why you were going bananas for it. I tried to do my own research and read cool articles full of words but nope, no information absorbed :)
It still kinda freaks me out what 30,000 years of selective breeding can do in terms of weird colors... and I know this gets even worse :D
The black wolf part is interesting.
In my OC universe, which takes place on an alternate North America where the US, Mexico and Canada never formed I have a species of wolf called "Black Wolf" which are of course, black though can rarely have white markings. I haven't explored them interbreeding with Greys but I imagine it would happen at about the same rate as Polar Bears and Grizzlies, being super rare naturally but possible.
They tend to favour forests and jungles and hunt larger prey than Greys.
OMG I'm in this video!!!!! 😮 Did not expect this, this is exciting! I love the cat series you've made and I'm so glad I could help with this one!
thank you for saving our boy
10/10 dog drawings, I remember you were saying they may look odd but they are so clear and very pretty!
aw thank you!!! you can thank The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles for that, the last several pages of my sketchbook have been borzois
I learned dog genetics well before I learned cat genetics, so they actually make more sense to me naturally. It's kinda funny seeing people coming in from cat genetics and being all "wahh this is so confusing!!" cuz a lot of cat stuff was/is like that for me, lol!
I just got out of my sophomore year of biology, and I think the most memorable thing I learned was genetics tbh. Genetics are extremely interesting but complicated to me, its motivated me to write and draw more, and just research in general. I absolutely love this video and I'm glad that this video is here on UA-cam :) thanks for posting, you don't know how happy I am!
Wow, that was a headace and a half, im sorry you had to deal with so much confusion but im happy this exists
Can’t wait to get to “merle” it’s one of my personal favourite markings
merle is getting its own dedicated episode >:3c
@@littlehungrywarrior Good luck! I hope your sanity stays sane
Oh you absolute blessing. As someone working on a story(or roleplay... Have not decided if I have the patience to moderate a server-) revolving around once-domestic dogs surviving in an abandoned city, and just plain being hyperfixated on dogs/dog genetics at all times, I opted to try and look into dog genetics myself on a broad level.
You know that "rubber room with rats and the rats made me crazy" audio? Yeah, replace "rats" with "dog genetics". I regret my decision, and I applaud you for even TRYING, let alone getting any information out in an easy-to-understand way.
It's a hellscape, ESPECIALLY for someone with issues focusing and reading long, drawn-out paragraphs filled with terms that are not even properly defined in the first place. (And that's saying something, considering how everything I type, including messages to friends or just plain ole youtube comments, turn into novels....)
THANK YOU for properly sourcing your finds, and linking additional reading, on top of alllll the rest of your work, you SAINT.
Dog genetics are SO wild.... And there's just SO MUCH THAT WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT IT, AND THE INFORMATION ITSELF IS SCATTERED INTO A BILLION TINY SECTIONS ACROSS THE INTERNET OR JUST PLAIN ISN'T AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC IN A CONSUMABLE WAY, ITS MADDENING.
Good video, good content, thank you as always for your work.
Aw thanks!!
Yeah it's crazy to me, like - dog genetics are SO much more well-studied than cats for so many reasons, and yet almost none of it is properly consolidated. what's the point of millions of dollars of funding to get this information if we aren't going to give this information to anyone?
I have 4+ pages of ear notes and only 2 sentences of it are inheritance model. the sentences contradict each other.
@@littlehungrywarrior EXACTLY! As much information as we have, I wish it was easier to locate- Which, thanks to you and the folks in that lovely discord server, I am now getting my wish to the best of someone's ability, so again, it's appreciated. I'll now be able to start picking up where I had left off design wise for some of the characters, especially as this series goes along.
Oh my god KSJDNFSDKJNFSKN bless it- Yeah, I can understand. I don't even know where my notes went, but i remember having annotations that were just 'does not match the findings of so-and-so article from such-and-such study, needs verification' or the one that stands out the most in my memory: "...wha???"
Like, I had actually made enough progress at one point to design a handful of characters. UNFORTUNATELY, I can no longer recall how I made the conclusions that I did! So I have a dilute brindle, long haired dog with amber eyes.... While his mother is blue, short haired, with blue eyes. Also she's harlequin. He is not. His bio sister IS. I genuinely do not recall how the brindle's other parent was designed to give them their traits in a somewhat-feasible way, I never drew out his dad's design, and I regret that after having misplaced my notes that explained that- I wouldn't be shocked if at some point I just went "screw it, this works' and rolled with it for the sake of giving myself a break from digging skdjfnksjdf
Pardon the novel, I'm genuinely very excited about this series of yours, as well as being able to blab about how wild dog genetics are in general.
@@LivinglyVivid I hope I can help ya out w/those in future episodes >:3c
An interesting thing about Kb black in wolves and its selection being preferred in the wild: It's unlikely to be because of their appearance, but rather the effect the mutation also has on immune systems. The K locus isn't known to cause color mutations in any other animal except dogs/wolves, but is known to have a role in immune function. Apparently Kbk is beneficial to immune function, and so they fair a bit better than kk wolves. However, KbKb does *worse* than even kk wolves. So Kbk wolves do better, but it's unlikely to ever take complete control of a population. For example, in Yellowstone black wolves are about 45% of the population, with only a tenth of them being KbKb; it seems to have balanced around this ratio, where black makes up slightly less than half.
:O That's super interesting. I remember hearing about Kb/Kb homozygosity being Bad but I didn't look too deep into it since that's not what the video's about, I'd love to read more if you have a source. balanced polymorphisms from overdominance are crazy
Study is called "Natural Selection and Origin of a Melanistic Allele in North American Gray Wolves", can be read on Oxford Academic
i screamed. i SCREAMED. out loud CHEERING
Omg I was literally thinking last night about how it would be cool to see a dog version!! Just in time for my dog story!! :D
Ooo I’m writing a comic where someone has a particular breed of mutt they keep around so this will be fun
Dogs breeders don't communicate with each other and then you get scientist calling a new(?) confirmed apparence gene after a candy from the country it's found it (hoping it doesn't negatively impact cats because that looks like a really nice coat)
Its here! I've been thinking up a story with two dog leads recently, this'll help me visualize them!
genuinely my favorite channel at the moment. Everything from creator to content is good vibes.
2:09 dog: mmm lemon
*hrk*
lemon dalmatians licking themselves be like
new genetics series pop off little warrior
YAYYYYYY IVE BEEN WAITINF FOR THIS
I jumped with excitement when I saw the notification!!!
Oh you're gonna find that Asip does a similar thing in horses :) (BAY. JUST.... BAY.)
8:17 Kitty ☺
AYY! DOG GENETICS! LETS GOO!
YIPPEEE!! I WAS SO EXCITED FOR THIS!! Dog genetics seem very confusing but i’m sure I’ll make sense of it soon enough :33
I read that title wrong and I got so scared and confused 😭
what did u read it as? :O
Yooo I'm so exited, your cat genetics series was so good and I've always wanted to learn more about dog genetics
what the actual fuck is even happening with dog genetics help
It came out!!
HELL YEAH NEW VIDEO
I love these genetics videos! I should really watch the first one...
I will probably end up watching most, if not all of them soon.
yayy new genetics video !!
If it helps at all most everyone in the dog genetics community that Ive spoken to also scream about the fact that UC Davis decided to rename all of the A locus alleles 😅
The reason RALY was originally called As is actually because until the UC davis study it was believed RALY was the sole determining factor (after OG A alleles) for whether a dog had a saddle or not.
Dogs love to be confusing haha! Awesome video! This will actually be of great use for beginners in genetics.
Thank you for As knowledge, that makes sense! Now they should re-name it!! And thank u for nice words too
@littlehungrywarrior you're welcome!! And yeah, they really should rename it now haha
It would save everyone the headache!
Thank you for another AWESOME Genetics series!!! Also, side note why in the world do dog breeders make finding the original color name so complicated??
Thank you!! My suspicion is that dog breeders come up w/a name before they understand the genes, and then just...keep using it after they know better?
im two days late but im here!! im currently trying (and struggling) to write a warriors-like book series about stray dog packs living in a human-filled city, and i love animal genetics, so this is so for me!
the whole tan, black, and agouti thing made me want to throw my head against the wall too so i feel ya OOF. (saddle and creeping tan, my beloathed)
i hope you end up talking about merles and harlequins (a great dane-specific gene) in this series, and i hope you bring up just how bad and disgusting double-merles and solid white/albino dobermans are. but if those aren't on your list that's fine since dog genetics seems more complex than i could ever imagine. lol.
thanks for your hard work. and sorry if this comment is long, im passionate and excited and have been waiting since your last cat genetics vid :)
Merle is getting its own dedicated video that will include harlequin >:3 and albino comes up in the "White" video. I'm aware of increased risk of skin cancer + eye problems in albino dobermans - is there another health problem I'm unaware of associated w/Z albino that I should include?
Thank you :3 I hope it helps ur dog story!
@littlehungrywarrior
yay, can't wait for those episodes to come out! as for albino dobie risks, i only really 100% know the common risks like eye and skin issues. but ive read that albino dobes just have lists of problems--from fertility issues to osteopetrosis (stone bones) to spinal bifida...
but im no expert either, just a semi-enthusiast who's forgetful. i have no links of my own to provide. sorry i can't help more ;;
@@k0masan960 I'll look into it - thank you!
I’m not as interested in dog genetics but I love listening to your voice while I work on projects ❤❤
cheers with excitement
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO
i had to pause a lot to process all the information and genetic heckery (my condolences🙏) but i'm absorbing all this information up like a sponge
hehe going back to my sable gsd oc's profile to write wolf grey in the notes
Oh wow yeah absolutely see why this has taken so long to research. Incredible depth. I both understand more and less about dogs. Or rather I understand more about dog genetics having watched the video AND I understood less than I thought before I watched it.
The BASICS was the hardest part? I kinda wanna laugh at that fact, but I feel sorry for you so I won't.
I think the rest of your life is just these for different species, by the way. If you didn't expect this one but it happened, more will probably happen without you expecting them, either, after you finish this.
I love dogs 🐕 ♥️ ❤️
this video was great fun to learn. Thank you for posting
Heyhey!! So glad ur doing a ver of dogs 4 this! I already kinda new abt cats but ur videos have always been good for reference, but I know next 2 nothing about dogs, so this is exciting!
Do you know why KBKy is *usually* black/solid but can show as brindle? I mean...I assume it has something to do with the ky allele fucking around but uh. im not sure How! lol its just kinda hard to wrap my head around. Im curious since, my dog who's gotten an embark, actually came back as KBKy but is in fact a black brindle! (She also is generally weird looking for a brindle, and doesnt have rlly distinct patches/is mostly red except for on her face + some paws. Could just be luck of the draw tho lol) She also has hind dewclans...very strange creature
Oh, KB/ky doesn't display as brindle - rather, Kbr turns into KB or ky (bc it's unstable), so test results for Kbr dogs come back as KB/ky.
A dog who inherits KB/ky from their parents is just going to be black. A dog who inherits Kbr from their parents (Kbr/ky or Kbr/Kbr genotype) is going to be brindle, which is bc some individual cells will turn into KB or ky or both.
This confuses gene tests, which send back KB/ky results for brindle consistently (there's people working to fix this).
TL;DR: KB/ky doesn't turn into brindle, brindle turns into KB/ky
I hope that makes sense; brindle is really confusing!
I'd love to see a pic if you're willing to send one :O I love weird animals tbh. also - my childhood dog had hind dewclaws!
LETS GOOOOOOO
Aw hell yeah
Bit of a correction. Creeping tan just refers to a dog with a single copy of the saddle gene. It was originally tought to be caused by RALY but this seems to have been debunked. Also it seems that generally creeping tan dogs are saddle/tan point or saddle/recessive black. Far as I know saddle/wolf grey doesn't give a saddled apperance and look more or less like regular wolf greys (there are dogs that look like they combine wolf grey with saddle, but wolf grey is so variable that it's a complete nightmare whitout genetic testing).
Apparently it's the other way around? Someone commented the same correction but read thru my sources & realized they were wrong. Apparently scientists thought RALY was on A, then realized it was a modifier of A, then also separately found Saddle on A
@@littlehungrywarrior Yeah. This is pretty confusing. Some websites seem to treat RALY as an alternate term for saddle and some treat them as distinct things that work in tandem. Coats and colors seems to say that creeping tan is just a term for a dog that is heterozygous for saddle and they are generally trustworthy (well as trustworthy as can be with things concerning the A locus)
@@Vombatiform2 I do love Coats & Colors as a source but I'm going to continue to trust the genetic testing site source I've found over a consolidating site. The distinction was only made within the last couple of years so hopefully over time we'll see less confusion as information spreads! and more information overall
@@littlehungrywarrior Fair enough. These things always take their time.
NEW GENETiCS SERIES YAYYYYYy let's go
dang this video hot out of the oven
Hell yea let's go
2:04 weird that black is the default instead of wolf colors
I mean "default" isn't really a scientific phrase, there isn't a default in real life, but it's easier to think of black as a "default" for the sake of understanding complex concepts. it's similar to, say, humanizing the concept of epistasis; it doesn't have a scientific bases, it's just shorthand to explain a complicated idea.
Correction: abs is an outdated theoretical allele, it doesn't actually exist. It was what the theory was for saddle before RALY was discovered.
You used beagles as an example of abs & it being "born with a saddle", but they are also caused by the RALY modifier & if you look up pictures of pups, they're born darker as well. The abs sources you found likely are old and outdated
I'm seeing a lot of images of baby beagles who seem to have full-on saddles. Can I get a source for RALY/Abs being outdated? My tumblr's in the desc (may take me a while to reply, site's been slow to load for me lately)
@littlehungrywarrior Reading through your sources I appear to be wrong! It WAS the case that there was a hypothetical saddle allele on the A locus, that was then "disproven" by the presence of RALY, only to come full circle and now there has been discovered an A locus abs gene, which had in previous tests been grouped in with at (tan points). The more you know!
I believe that was discovered in 2022? I did most of my dog genetics reading back in 2020. Science marches on, lol
@@frickfrickkin1723 :O that's amazing! I'm glad you/we got that figured out lol - I remember running into a few contradictory sources and being confused for a bit myself, til I just ended up going w/the most recent articles.
Re: science marching on, I was recc'd doggenetics.co.uk as a source ages ago & returned to it when I began research. It's an amazing site but I was shocked to find out how outdated and incomplete some of the info is! I can tell the person running it is knowledgeable & passionate - it just goes to show how hard it is to keep up with so much information.
I wonder about catdog genetics
ITSHEREITSHEREITSHEREITSHEREITSHEREITSHEREITSHE uh I mean OMIGOSHIAMSOEXCITED
(I don't even like dogs all that much but I'm still super excited yeeeeeeee!!!)
do you know anything for horse genetics
oh I know a LOT of horse genetics! dogs just outvoted it.
if youtube will let me post a link, I recc playing w/this: horse.jenniferhoffman.net/horse-color-genetics.html#0000000000
@@littlehungrywarrior THANKYOUU!!! EEEKK
@@littlehungrywarrior Oh my gosh maybe after the dog series you could explain horses? I understand if you don't want to and/or have too much on your plate because of the trainwreck dog genetics are but I think tons of people would really enjoy it!
@@wall_ees im also tossing in my vote for horses after doggos
@@littlehungrywarrior nice
Can you do goats and horses too?
Animals I cover are voted for; I'm going to finish going thru the last round's losers (which includes horses) before I add new animals to the polls, but I'll add goats to the list for those future polls
One of the first 60 to see this!
DOG GENETICS WOOO!!!