Are Swords REALLY Good for Super Strong Characters?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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So what type of weapon do you think makes the most sense for characters with superhuman strength?
Probably a sword that was made of some really dense metal like Iridium or Osmium. You would get the weight and durability without comprising to much on the thickness and this retain the cutting power.
No
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First, heavy and thick armor so that you can focus entirely on attacking, forget defensive moves entirely!
Second, something like a refitted tetsubo would be ideal for a very simple move: sweeping strikes at the legs! - what are they gonna do with their knees capped, attack your heavily armored legs?
Maybe we're focusing on the wrong thing here. Perhaps the benefit of super-strength isn't being able to wield a massive weapon, but being able to move normally in massive armor.
You make a great point
berserker armor 😈
Henry VIII's armour for the Field of Cloth of Gold, but made of 7 mm AR500 steel?
Yup, that would definitely be an advantage.
Consider pedal powered medieval tank
When you mention how even with lots of strength the sword will still get damaged reminded me of a panel from Berserk.
_"Damn Guts you sure know how to make a blacksmith cry."_
Hanarr
I Never thought about that in order to withstand the force a superhuman swings with your have to essentially make a blunt sword or the edge would get damaged. Now Swords like the Dragonslayer or the Buster sword actually make more sense as they are just a Raw hunk of iron with a very steep edge
You also need to remember, the people who used swords, axes or other impact or cutting weapons. Generally where stronger, because they practiced with it. Me and my father used to cut fire wood with a bow saw, and split it with an axe or splitting maul. So we where pretty strong at one time. But that was years ago. Lets take the Scottish Claymore for example. These where big swords, and they where given to the biggest guy in the clan. But he was backed up by two guys using shields/Targes, and one handed weapons. So you need to take that into your thoughts.
See, there are some materials which CAN hold the needed sharpness without damage upon impact. Some examples:
-Adamantium
-Vibranium
-Orichalcum(depending on where you import it from)
-Sea Prism Stone
-Adam Tree Wood
-Dragon Bone
-Mithril
-Carbon Nanotubes
-Plasma in a containment field
-Ancient swords from dead heroes (the current owners of these swords aren't keen on us taking material samples for analysis)
-Stuff you can buy from the average merchant within a mile of a final boss's castle
-Nth Metal
-Tinfoil, if an RPG hero is using it and we're not in Fire Emblem
One day this guy is going to pull a kitchen knife out of a drawer and all nearby trees will collapse out of respect.
If you're wondering, Skall, this is the kind of video I come back to your channel for.
You Kanabo wrong with a Skal' video! 😁 That sounded better in my head than it does in text. Oh well.
After I wielded a 38 inch Claymore that was still somewhat thin I realized just how absurd these swords are.
If I had superhuman strength, the best use of it on the battlefield would probably just be to hold up a giant iron cage that a bunch of my buddies could hide inside and stab outside with spears. But I digress
Cool you have Andre the Giant's baseball bat!!!!!! 😂😂😂😂
If you're wearing a exosuit that increases your mass as well as your strength, then go ahead and use a huge oversized weapon. But strength isn't going to help you much if you don't have the mass to balance it.
Shaq or the armwrestling guy could hold a double sized kanabo
What about if the swordsmen are within the normal range of strength but the sword is made out of some very tough but hyper-light fictional alloy?
Would that change the choice of hammer v sword for a big weapon?
Super Human Strength Weapon? How about a railroad train car axle with one wheel on one end used as a steel disk mace?
So would a javelin/spear be the optimal weapon for super strength then ?
You can scale them up quite easily, and even if the pointy end gets flattened or fragments on impact against armor, it still would be a devastating blow.
Superstrength is for the club.
Superspeed is swordplay.
So, train with a woodsman axe
Swords are kinda unique in that regard. With any other weapon be it spear or axe or a mace if you encounter armored opponent you're encouraged to just strike harder. With the sword you can't transfer strength to power with same ratio, so it's more nimble weapon for striking weak spots and finding gaps in the armor. So with swords i guess agility would be more important than strength. If you're strong just take something that's heavier on the other end.
There's this cool thing called a "guillotine" and it's used to day industrially to cut off metal to size from a billet. Now, reconsider your statement with the video topic in mind
There are some thrusting weapons abre to pierce through armours
The giant swords are usually used like a sword-shaped axe anyway. Nobody who uses giant swords use them like actual swords.
@@ArifRWinandar 100% correct. I always call my creations Sword Shaped Axes. They're even sharpened like axes, a traditional delicate edge like a sword would have, would get folded on the first hit.
If you have super strength the weapon doesn't actually matter because you can just smash through things anyway with a slab of metal, so you might as well make the slab of metal look like a sword because swords are cool.
Something that messes with this is the square cube law. You can’t just scale things up proportionally and have them work the same.
The same reason small guys will make 20 pull ups like its nothing and them trashtalk you...
@@saawysorenson4585 yup🤣
@@saawysorenson4585 20 pull ups is impressive even for a 50 kg guy
@@saawysorenson4585what’s your definition of small? Could smash 20 pull ups at 50kg and could still do the same at 80kg without routinely working out or lifting at work. At just shy of 6 ft and currently 65 odd kgs I’d have to assume you’re talking about midgets or fat bodies 😂😂
@@Squizzilesmost people, even in decent shape, can’t do 10.
I love that you brought up the Kanabo, because it's immediately where my mind went at the start of the video. Fun fact, some japanese folklore stories involve Oni (demons/ogres) with giant kanabo made of solid iron. Very fitting!
Wonder if the Ogre there using a be it fancy, but STILL, a club thing is intentional rather then just a cliche
@@robertagu5533 Oni are depicted with a variety of weapons, but the Kanabo has an iconic look, and makes sense for a brutish creature to use.
Having the mass and strength to wield a full steel kanabo as nimbly as a sword would make you a terror, especially in full armor. You would easily Sauron your way through any armored foe. I'd recommend making the Kanabo as long as possible, extending out 8 to 9 feet past the hands, to be able to contend with normal sized spears
@@christopherknorr2895 so less a battle club as a studded battle staff then
GET OFF MA MOUNTAIN !! - Said the Oni calmly grabbing his Kanabo.
My take is simple: If your character is strong enough to sling around a slab of steel that has to weigh at least 40 pounds, you could probably go ahead and use an obscenely high draw-weight warbow and have the power of a modern sniper rifle.
Dark souls greatbows?
that was Shad's take. giant's and dwarves should be using bows.
The bows have a limit, in the material strength. I think an obscenely powerful bow, human size, must be spring steel limbs, a cable string, and metal arrows. And the weight of the arrows must be scaled appropriately, so as to avoid diminishing returns of using high power over a low draw distance.
Maybe just give a dude an autocannon.
.....Still need a backup weapon, not a giant sword, but strength doesn't fix the problem of bunk or charge time. Unles tou want your bowman his bow as a melee weapon.
Not sure if such bows would work well. After all, you need to balance flexibility against resistance, otherwise the thing is just going to snap instead of being drawn back.
So you need a character with superhuman strength with superhuman mass and a weapon made from supernatural alloy on a world with supernatural physics.
Seems doable.
i'd say "War from Darksiders feels called", but considering what happens if the Horsemen arrive if they hear a call, i'd uh, i'd rather not have that happen yet.
but he ticks all the boxes, for as a Nephilim and thus born from the mingled dust of angel and demon, he has
-Superhuman strength
-most likely superhuman mass
and considering the nature of Nephilim-forged weapons and all the supernatural elements in the Darksiders universe as a whole, he's got the second half figured out too.
Of course, when arriving on earth there's presumably normal physics to account for again (to a degree). But considering Chaoseater's magical capacities and that it literally feeds itself on violence, there's most likely some form of supernatural force at play that allows Chaoseater to, up to a certain degree, play by its own rules.
Plus, that sword has a simple yet very nicely decorated design.
We've got tanks and gigantic naval cannons, bro. Material strength isn't asuch of a problem as you think
@@jurtheorc8117 That's some fantastic reasoning there, my good sir!
Now Skald has to make a video analysing Darksiders very thoroughly!
@@512TheWolf512 Are you comparing cannons and tanks with a sword with a flimsy handle and a huge blade, like the Buster sword or the sword used by Gatts (Berserk)?
Sounds like 40k.
Superhumans with extra size and strength fighting with weapons made of near if not magical materials on various worlds with differing gravity.
😄 The tetsubo is one of my favorite melee weapons. Somehow, despite the bulk, the samurai of Japan were very effective using the tetsubo, and it was considered a "samurai weapon".
As a samurai weapon, it was called a kanabō, and there are photos of them posing with the weapon.
@@johnmiller2689Its very likely most kanabo used in combat weren't all that heavy. Maybe five to six pounds max. Let's be real, how long could you effectively wield something that weighs 11 or more pounds like some claim in active combat? Not long.
As far as it being a Samurai weapon, I mean so were guns. Some people get really shocked to learn Samurai just shot people sometimes, lmao.
it's a cool thing that deserves more spotlight beyond an idea of a brutishly swung bashing stick. While it *is* a bashing stick, like most maces and clubs, there's more potential for finesse than most people realize.
I hope to produce one of my stories sometime in which someone uses a variety of maces (specifically a flanged mace, goedendag and a kanabo they were gifted from visitors from overseas), but while not a trained fighter, they learn to do exactly that: use the simple bashing sticks in more skilled ways beyond dumb bashing.
Such concept isn't unique. Western people have spiked baseball bat, that is roughly the same design
@@jurtheorc8117 The goedendag is also a stabbing weapon giving it even more varaiety in the movements.
If you had a real life character with 5 or 6 times human strength the ideal weapon would be a 4 foot long round section 28mm diameter spring steel rod with a hand guard. What else would you ever need? Enemies need their brains on the *inside* of their skulls to function.
Like Geralt v. Vilgafortz. That said I like the idea of a more robust version of Zulu shields with the central pole turned into a halberd.
Ick.
Imagine the hand shock of hitting something with a heavy spring steel rod.
@@DH-xw6jp If it's something nice and soft and yielding like somebody's helmet it should be fine - just don't wallop the concrete floor!
@@vipertwenty249 there is a reason why handles are not entirely round. Circle crossection handle is much better with transferring vibrations so worse for the wielder. Make it more rectangular, might as well add a bit of an edge to the rest of it, it would be pretty good.
I had never considered the durability of regular materials when thinking about using weapons with super strength. That's an interesting point to think about.
And like others have said, I definitely think a warbow would be an excellent choice for super strength. Doesn't even necessarily have to be more powerful than the strongest bows we already have, more strength would mean drawing it more easily and consistently without getting tired as quickly.
There's a webcomic I read years ago that in one of the early pages someone brought up if you are strong enough to pick up and hit someone with a car that you'd hit them harder with your fist purely because of reduced surface area
Also guts in berserk was originally given a reasonably sized sword by the blacsmith until he near instantly broke it against a large monster and find the dragon slayer laying arond,eventually finishing the fight with it,realilising he truly needed something that tough for his adventure
As always, the real answer with super strength/materials/etc is never "what melee weapon is best", it's "how can I use this to shoot people better".
It reminds me of the insane bows shardplate (magic power suit) users use in storm light archive.
How about being able to reload a windlass crossbow sans windlass? You don't even have to change the technology at all to accommodate the superhuman.
Skal, it would be AWESOME if you did a colab with one of those strongest man competitors. You could actually test how some weapons are handled by someone considerably stronger and heavier than the average soldier. "Strongest man vs average Joe on a zombie apocalipse". Best regards
Ideally he would get two of them. One like Hooper or Novikov, who are crazy strong for their size, and another, like Shaw or Bjornsson who are just flat out massive men. It would be interesting to contrast and compare.
There is a video of Robert Oberst messing around with one of those ridiculous Mjolinr builds, but that's unrealistically heavy.
Do you think Dave Baptista would be enough? I heard the guy is really easy going and that might facilitate a colab
@rafaelferes4362 He's a BIG fit guy, but Bautista isn't really a strength athlete. It would be less ideal, but still interesting to see.
@@rafaelferes4362check out one of Demolition Ranch's older video where he got a Strong Man (i think Robert Oberst) to swing the Buster sword he had.
Even in our LARP adventures we have barbarians that claim extreme strength (most of them really look like it too), they regularly prefer hammers, axes and siege weapons, swords are just not part of their fighting style.
Siege weapons? Now that's an interesting thought. Do you have a juggernaut walking around with a battering ram, or a ripped-off ballista?
@@P3x310 I know barbarians usually don't wear armor at all, but I just imagine one in plate armor that is shaped in a similar manner to modern special forces armor using something that's similar to a modern enforcer battering ram.
@@P3x310 Yakk is his name, he is a huge guy and he can use the siege ram as a club.^^ His hammer has this cool dragon's tooth as head.
@@Theorak sounds like an amazing lad. My salutations to Mr. Yakk and his big stick of Door-No-More.
Berserker sees Roman legion: "How are they gonna sustain a fight with only one throwing knife each?"
That War Thunder sponsorship is rather unexpected.....but welcome from a channel like this
I'm glad when creators like this can get a sponsor. UA-cam doesn't care about them unfortunately.
@@Therrin6675it's because war thunder thinks this is there market. i would to if i was them
I don't mind sponso. I sure he is not trill. I rather see the channel continue with good financing
I would argue that giant swords like Guts’s dragon slayer are just slabs of metal, so practically hammers already, just also with an . . . “Edge”.
The description of the dragon slayer even states that it is basically just a slab or raw iron.
"It was too big to be called a sword. Massive, thick, heavy, and far too rough. Indeed, it was a heap of raw iron."
A slab of iron with an edge… so it’s an axe
If you could swing a giant piece of metal like a tiny one because you're super strong, go for the big one everytime! LOL
Skallagrim, have you ever seen the new compressed wood that a American University custom made?
They used a chemical process, compressed it, has the strength of steel, light as wood.
It's pretty amazing, you can pre-form it into the shape you want.
Imagine the Kanabo with a more reasonable thinner hand grip that was as strong as a Steel Rod.
You could probably hollow out the base of the Kanabo to include some Silicone or Rubber Shock Absorbers so you feel next to no reverberation on impact.
I might have seen something like that... ;)
ua-cam.com/video/toaSTojBIb8/v-deo.html
My favorite is when the relatively small person with superhuman strength uses a giant weapon, and they actually use the fact it weighs almost as much as them to their advantage. Like in Monster Hunter, when you use your entire body as a fulcrum to pivot the weapon and follow the momentum into a sort of cartwheel to build up more power.
May from the Guilty Gear series also does that with her weapon being an Anchor that is bigger than her.
Reminds me of record of Ragnarok Thor. In that series, mjolnir is a person-sized hammer. (The 'handle' has a second, smaller handle for actual grabbing.) He throws it for it to gain momentum and then pulls something similar to what you mentioned.
What if instead of Super Strength the weight of the weapon itself only felt lower / weightless while in the hands of it's wielder? Kind of like Thor's Mjolnir. How different would the physics applied be when swung around effortlessly?
The thing is, with super strength, anything becomes a weapon.
At 5 times human average, a sword is still viable (provided you're still going up against biologicals), as the forces generated are still within the tolerance of steel, just more maintenance needed.
At 10X, you would need something more robust than steel, or you would have to make adjustments to the sword, making it thicker, more robust.
At twenty times, you're talking about slicing through a human longways with a butter knife with the forces involved being more than enough to shatter swords NOT made of magical materials, or the sword would have to have the blade profile of a wood cutters axe, and weigh as much Mike Tyson.
At a strength multiplication of 50, as baseball bat cuts through flesh just as easily as a sword, just not as cleanly.
Once you get to a hundred or more times the strength of a man, there really isn't any point carrying anything other than a thick, sturdy, club analog like a steel kanebo, or a war club made of tungsten.
Once you get to Hulk or Superman levels of strength, where they can just grab telephone poles and swing them around like sticks, and they're literally throwing mountains at each other, there really is no point in anything other than improvised weapons because the materials needed to survive the swing alone, much less the impact regardless of whether they miss or not, would be mind boggling. Basically only the strongest of fictional materials MIGHT survive.
At those strength levels, the general usefulness of weapons also decreases unless facing similarly strong opponents/materials.
Someone at 20 times human average strength or above would likely be strong and fast enough to punch a baseline human hard enough to snap bones on impact or be able to grab limbs and somewhat effortlessly dislocate them with a strong shake.
@@kristianjensen5877 Actually you can do what you described at 2X. At 20X it becomes effortless to rip limbs off, punch THROUGH people, or kill them by just tossing them up into the air as high as you can.
But yeah, past a certain point weapons become one time use only.
Superman-level characters fighting with everyday objects it's really just for the rule of cool, even if it's a mountain, there's no point in throwing the mountain at your opponent if both you and your enemy are tougher than a mountain condensed into the shape of a human, logically it would do nothing, like trying to damage a steel ball with a house-sized styrofoam.
@@Dexuz It's not the toughness of the materials at that level, it's the added mass or the extended reach. A piece of styrofoam hitting you at Mach three still does damage, even if you are a steel ball. Granted it doesn't do huge damage, but sometimes it's just about getting the hit in, rather than what it does to the target. Knock 'em outta the air, knock 'em into the air, pound 'em into the ground, trap 'm for a bit, it's about just doing that extra bit.
@@nooneofimportance2110
I can see that, but if you're a dude that can propel styrofoam at such speeds, wouldn't it be better to use that strenght to, you know, punch?
Well, to be fair: Weapons ins Monster Hunter are meant to cut monsters that have skin that regular metal has difficulty cutting through. As such they are also created from tougher materials that can withstand superhuman strenght
At the same time, the monster hunters aren't so much swinging their weapons around as much as they're fumbling over themselves and hanging on to their weapons for dear life.
But first you need to explain why everyone insists on fighting such monsters in melee, despite guns being a thing.
@@h0m3st4r That is true XD But i was just focusing on the material aspect, not the combat
@@MrSamulaimaybe because they trying to protect the gunner
@@kangmintaid3970 Best protection for a sniper is another sniper. They obviously wouldn't balance the game like that, but...
The cube square law was well covered already, but I have to point out that there is no level of strength that will overcome inertia and mass. Even if you were strong enough that you felt the same resistance from a war hammer that a normal person does an arming sword, the hammer would still not move in the same ways as a sword will, you would have to counterweight the head to move the center of mass to the same distance from the hand.
There is a way to trick inertia: center of mass, that moves. Make a steel kanabo with a hollow tube in the upper (hexagon) part, put a lead weight inside, so that it would move towards the upper part, when swung, and lower - when pulled back
@@solarissv777 That is a fascinating idea, very interesting! It would lend itself to a staff, but might be also increase the performance of an axe or polearm like a glaive or halberd. The issue is going to be how robust a tube can be made and still be wielded, once it has more mass or enough is far from the center, the wielder they're gonna get pulled along with it! ...unless they let go. You'd have to some how be anchored into the ground to avert a "ride".
counter point: if you shape a giant sword "properly" it basically IS a big metal club with a wedge on the front. Very durable and yet focuses the impact more than a simple round object. think of a hexagon shape, but slightly elongated.
It also carries more mass than an axe, because the entire length is thick. which might be desirable if you are really strong. its also more durable than an axe, which isn't all one piece, but rather is mounted to a thin pole.
also, you get a nice huge metal shield. and finally, cutting area is nice and long so if someone closes the gap on you. (passing where the tip of the axe would want to land)
you still can hit them with a nice hard edge.
you can do all of that if it’s just a big metal club though. the metal club is probably easier to make and certainly to maintain too. i’m not sure shields are an issue if you’re wielding something of this nature anyways and if you want to focus the impact, a studded club does that just fine. if you do manage to cut into something with a big ass sword, good fucking luck retrieving it. it’s not gonna cut through a whole man, it’ll get stuck in their sinew and bones and shit. that’s enough of a pain in the ass, forget about how heavy the damn thing is. club goes bonk and as soon as you get control over the swing again, you’re ready to bonk again
@@logandunlap9156 a round club is easier to make, yes.
but most of the rest you said is wrong.
a studded club will not focus impact as well as a wedge. thats why people use wedges to split wood and not studded clubs. it focuses the entire mass on one edge, and can penetrate deeper.
but dont forget, a wedge is NOT a blade. they aren't sharp, they are not narrow. they are therefore MUCH more durable. again imagine a perfect hexagon shape, and then just slightly stretch it. thats the shape im talking about.
its not gonna really cut anything, but it will be so heavy it will smash and split basically anything. absolutely not going to get stuck in bone. the bone will be shattered.
and a shield is useful. a weapon like this likely requires 2 hands. so if a volley of arrows is launched at you, having a broad slab of metal to hide behind is great! a round club would simply not have the surface area to be effective for that.
@@SuperLemonfishmissed my whole damn point
obviously a stud isn’t going to focus as much as a wedge, but that’s what flanges are for. if we’re going by the rules of “realistic” giant swords, the sword would need to be more like a blade than a wedge in order to be swung around. it’d just be too heavy. if that’s not the case and we’ve got someone with super strength carrying the thing around, sure. he’s gonna be cutting through everyone like butter and it’s not gonna be any less effective than hitting someone with a blunt weapon with the same destructive force. same goes for the shield thing. if they’re super inhumanly strong, i’m not sure arrows are gonna bother them anyways. if they are normal, then yeah i can see the sword being a better option for defending against arrows. but at the end of the day, a giant flanged/studded club just seems more practical than a sword that has all these issues at that scale.
also, bones are tough as fuck and the human body is made of a bunch of layered tissues and shit. a blade that size is gonna get slowed down significantly by flesh, especially after piercing armor, assuming it can.
@@logandunlap9156 you didn't say flanges though. that not my fault.
btw, typical flanges also cannot penetrate as deep, dont focus the force as much, and will not be as durable. Also, a mace like that wouldn't have a long striking area, and wouldn't make a good shield. it lacks many of the benefits.
Im speaking from the point of view that a human with super strength, aroused 5x or so, is wielding it.
bones aren't gonna do shit to that kind of power.
also: being strong =/= resistant to arrows.
but also even if they are resistant, what if the arrows are shot from stronger bows, to specifically counter superhumans?
@@SuperLemonfishso basically dragonslayer😂
If anyone wants a semi-realistic demonstration, I recommend Rurouni Kenshin. The character Sanosuke has a massive sword and Kenshin's fight with him is awesome.
This was a great short take on an interesting topic. Would love a follow up video that goes deeper into what category or types of weapons would work better.
The way I imagine the magic of Thor's hammer to work is that those who are worthy are not impacted by the weight/density of the hammer. To everyone else the hammer is absurdly heavy and hits with extreme force while the user doesn't even notice the weight. Which also makes sense why characters who are not worthy but extremely strong can lift the hammer.
Doesn't Thor have a magical belt to do this weight negation for him? Or... are you talking about the Marvel version of Thor?
@@hypsin0 The Marvel version.
This video was actually pretty interesting. I’m writing a sci fi universe and within it there are for simplicity sake, supersoldiers. I decided that despite having enhanced strength instead of carrying larger weapons they’d carry heavy combat hatchets. I always thought it was more practical for an operative than carrying a sword, but now there’s some decent science behind why I chose wisely.
Something like the buster sword is probably more of a blunt weapon than a cutting weapon, it wouldn't really need a sharp edge at all. It's also a very unbalanced weapon, so it'd require a lot of mass on the users part in order to wield it. It'd probably make more sense in the hands of Barret than it does Cloud. It's the sort of weapon I could see in the hands of Warhammer 40k soldiers, because they all have massive bodies and armor. Smaller characters though, would need something more balanced.
Cough guillotine cough
To be fair, its prominence often leads people to forget that the Buster Sword is Cloud's worst weapon. His other swords (& also one nail bat) are a little less ridiculous. Until we get to Advent Children, anyway.
@@TheLithp no need to wait till Advent children, Ultima weapon is up to bat lol.
Oh god, it would be a giant, slow moving yet unstoppable wedge. You wouldn't be sliced, so much as pinched in two.
It doesn't make ANY sense on Barret and it doesn't need mass in its verse 😮💨
power/energy in VII comes from Mako so that fighter *DOES NOT* need the user to have mass because the user can effectively make up for it
the video also fucked up from the start when it said that it being a cutting weapon wasn't useful when it's entirely the opposite since if you're Cloud you're not worried about being able to harm a human you're worried about harming a 1000-10000KG Monster or Machine with who knows what type of armor protection with enough capability to withstand explosions and lasers so cutting power matters *a lot* (so long as your weapon is durable enough)
What I really like about Cloud is how he swings his entire body with the sword. Super strong or not that heavy sword is gonna move you, so he just moves with it.
Zweihanders & Claymore Swords aside, one has to wonder: when Edge becomes Wedge with such mass & weight backing it, does Slash damage become Blunt Force damage instead?
I was reminded of that episode of Modern Rogue where they were introduced to Montante.
I can see how it could be used for Area Denial, but Fight Choreography in most depictions are rarely like that.
Giant Swords plus super strong character equals the equivalent of a battleship running over a fishing boat.
Another huge question is how much a sword would actually benefit from a super-strong user. At a certain level of strength, you'll cut right through your target, and being any stronger would not increase the effectiveness of the cut - you can't really chop a dragon MORE in half. A strong user might be able to make the weapon more nimble, like Skall said, but I think there's a cap on how nimble you could be with a sword, too.
Instead of increasing the size of the blade, you should just add more blades
stronger oponents.
I had the same conclusion before with kanabō, as it is basically made specifically for that purpose. I'd like to add that super strength doesn't just fall on the category of just having strong major muscles, durability and heavier body. It's simply stronger physiques overall, including grip strength. So, about the issue with the handle, wouldn't be an issue for someone with super strength. The person, depending on the situation, could just grip the handle so hard that his/her fingers would dig into the handle itself.
Out of big swords, I wish rhomphaias and bills were more popular (yes, the bill is more known as a polearm, but there are 12th-13th century depictions of greatsword-esque bills).
Mind linking the sword bills
@@bodkin7841I assume it’s like Falx
Oh, similar to the Aruval of southern India and Sri Lanka?
its also worth taking into account what the enemy of the user happens to be. if their using super human strength to fight lions a sword may be more valid then say a club, while an elephant in comparison a club may be more useful to disable/ stun the enemy were a sword may struggle to pierce the hide. and while it seems to be 60% giant swords 40% giant clubs out of the fantasy I've read out of all the novels, light novels, manga, and comics I've read, I can only think of 1 character that used a giant axe
Yeah this. All of the critique of giant swords seems to come down to human feasibility (fair) and using them against other humans. But most stuff with giant swords ARENT using them against humans but against monsters and giant stuff. Even Guts, when he fights people vs monsters, uses his sword mainly as an AOE blunt weapon, not a sword.
I think it's always going to depend on context because "giant sword" can mean a lot of things. It could be argued that your "realistic armor-slayer" is a giant sword, but it seemed to work pretty well, albeit on the limits of what WOULD work. Then you could go up to something like the Buster Sword, & then up to something like Monster Slayer, theoretically infinitely. Then there may be various types of magic or superpowers at play. THEN we have to consider what the weapon is being used on. If you're fighting a dragon, maybe it does kind of make sense to have an edged weapon because maybe, as hard as it is to cut through, it's easier to make it bleed than the alternatives. AND THEN there are other uses to consider, like the fact that Cloud is seen using his swords as impromptu shields. So, the answer to "Are Swords REALLY Good for Super Strong Characters?" is always going to be "it depends." To be fair, it's not like super strong characters are never shown using clubs, axes, etc. It does kind of make sense that different characters might choose different weapons for different reasons even if we ignore factors like sentimentality. And Jesus, this paragraph is about as chunky as the Buster Sword.
Even just someone being able to wield a greatsword much like a longsword in terms of recovery speed would be huge, which is where I think this scenario would make sense. If you go to an extreme though, it's not quite the same. As said, once you get to the point where the force you're applying risks breaking the sword...might be time to consider a different weapon.
Edit: Also, if you have materials that are heavier and stronger than steel, that shifts the dynamic further.
I always had the mental picture of something like Clouds sword working, but completely differently than portrayed. Guy has superhuman strength, so he can lift it, sure, but momentum and the conservation thereof is still a thing. He can lift it, slam it down, but full swings would carry the user through to a ridiculous degree. Super strength doesn't mean much when the follow-through literally takes you off your feet, lol. I'm imagining a mix of swinging a giant meat cleaver, but getting taken along for the ride like MCU Thor gets pulled around by Mjolnir.
Basically half fencing and half ballet, with a ton of defensive actions and statgetic movement. Can't exactly combo or bet terribly aggressive with it.
I think something like Monster Hunter Rise Sunbreak's Surge Slash combos for the Greatsword would be how it could be used.
Unless different worlds have different physics, and those silly rules do not apply...
The whole superhuman mass/density thing was actually a thing in Azarinth Healer, a story in which the main character winds up fist fighting with things several, many, all the times larger than her own human body, some of her ability gains makes her body more dense (her strength increasing to compensate) so she can put more oomph behind her punches and not get knocked around like a leaf in a hurricane.
I feel that giant swords for super strong characters can make sense. Depending on the things its being used for.
Take for example, Monster Hunter. Where people are fighting giant monsters. Giant monsters presumably will have a thick layer of fat to retain heat, this fat can help protect against blunt trauma from something like a kanabo or mace. But a sword, with its edge and tip will have the potential to cut into that fat layer, or be thrust through it.
Of course, even in this scenario, you'll likely end up ruining the blade when you hit bone. But that's a problem for AFTER you've taken out the giant monster by cutting deep enough to hit bone in the first place.
Not to mention, the issue of damage will crop up among many weapon types when factoring in the power of super strength. Spears, axes, polearms, picks etc. These can also be easily damage with high power. But unlike a sword that has a lot of edge, especially if it's double edged (Though few depictions of colossal swords are), such weapons can be rendered useless by damage if the head breaks off.
However, when fighting things that aren't giant monsters, like other super strong humans or giant robots... Swords would be terrible and you'd be wanting your kanabo or quarterstaff made out of solid unobtanium.
I love your videos a great deal.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the reasons these weapons are even produced. I've noticed in a lot of these big weapons are made to fight giant monsters.
So I guess what I'm saying is, how would we fight against Giant Monsters?
Seeing as Giant Weapons are an illogical approach due to physics.
My counter: it would just shift how we look at weapons. Swords/rapiers function like daggers now, and great swords/maces/axes act like swords and ultra great swords like great swords. Daggers end up in a super odd place since they would be so outclassed by length.
Basically, how nimble and quick you can just shifts up.
If you have that much physical strength you wouldn't need a dagger, you could just punch your finger through someone's ribcage.
So basically, a Strength Build in a Souls game?
The classic representation of Heracles/Hercules as a huge guy with a big stick pretty much summarizes what the optimal weapon for a superhuman would be. Like, why would you even need something sharp at that point?
Nemean Lion.
I figure the real advantage with super strength when using a sword is that you could more easily counteract leverage against you (weak part of the blade vs strong of your opponent) and surprise them by pushing against them in situations where you shouldn't be able to (i.e.: where they would normally have the mechanical advantage) by simply being way stronger. That would definitely make sparing very different for both fighters. Then again, if you are that much stronger than your opponent... you could probably just reach them with your weapon faster than they can and if they do try to deflect, again, you could overpower the mechanical advantage (and hopefully your weapon survives that!).
hi guys i hope you have a good day
Thanks!
Man, I love the kanabo. Always wanted to see it given some love in animation or video games, I always feel like you could do a lot of fun things with it. Have some 8 foot giant start dealing out massive, slow swings only to start using the weight to pick up momentum and turn into walking freight train barreling through a crowd of people.
I think that swords are good for what they are because they are small. If they were as big as a spear, id like the spear, war hammer or whatever. You would want a sword because it would be easy to carry and NOT as cumbersome like those above.
Fun video. You should explore this topic further. For instance, with super strength comes the need for more weight in order to get full use out of their maneuverability and striking power under normal gravity. They would likely need boots of excess width in order to avoid sinking into the ground while jumping. Weighted cloaks Full metal weighted staves with various ball, club, or mace ends... You get the idea. Thanks again and I hope you have a good day/night =)
I think media like Berserk and Monster Hunter justify using giant swords better than most others. Hunters need giant swords because they fight inhumanly large and powerful creatures. Creatures so large and durable that using typical ranged weapons might as well just be a death by a thousand cuts for an animal that will rapidly close the distance anyway, and your chance of killing it in one shot are nil. Same problem with appropriately sized weapons like Sword 'n shield and Dual Blades, basically like trying to kill a rhino with a pocket knife.
In Berserk they outright show why Guts doesn't use normal sized swords. For one, he's going up against inhuman opponents as well, many of which also have powers like regeneration or super durability. He was custom made an appropriate sized longsword by his friend Godo the Blacksmith, but it snapped in half when he first tested it against a demon, and it did little to slow the creature down. But the Dragonslayer was both heavy enough to do serious damage despite being very dull, and durable enough to not snap under the weight of his attacks. Guts even uses the wide blade as a shield sometimes.
I think the biggest hurdle to cross is an in-universe justification that stays consistent. In MH its a hunting tool that has stuck around because it worked, in Berserk its literally the only weapon that can stand up to fighting monsters larger than humans.
I like to think that "swords" like Cloud's Breaker Blade or Gut's Dragonslayer just have sword like elements as decoration and are more just gigantic clubs.
Giant clubs that can cut massive demons in half...
Seriously though, if you want to check out sword forms for large weapons, check out Bagua saber forms. =D
I love realistic style really large weapons. For sparring, I want to make a really big zweihander, but big in the sense of length and reach over mass and width. I think a superhuman melee weapon with large REACH would be terrifying, and if it didn't have the big big mass, it would be so quick.
I've long thought some kind of studded club or mace would be the ideal. Seems easier to scale up a bludgeon if the weight isn't an object than to scale up something more subject to structural failures.
I've been following exoskeleton tech for years. There have been a lot of advances. If perfected, and combined with ballistic armor, a "mech" suit should be possible. If so, a "giant melee weapon" would be a logical choice for a backup weapon should ammo run out or the gun gets damaged. All conjecture at this point, though.
Only if they can't carry a second gun.
@@Merilirem You can also just have more than one backup weapon
Big bayonet. Cheap, efficient.
I like the idea that a superhuman with a large sword would use the momentum of it to their advantage. Like literally having th fact that’s winging the sword would drag them as their fighting style
Easily one of the coolest looking weapons in my book. Ever since my childhood when I first saw a huge character swinging around a tetsubo in an old asian mmo or pictures of samurai using them, I thought it was just such a simple yet elegant, well made and sturdy weapon. Sure european warhammers and such are cool too, but they have more of a technical air to them rathen than just brutish strength. Like with a mace you hit a knight on the head and he falls down crumbling, mounted samurai would probably launch each other with this beast.
The light novel/manga all you need is kill actually talks about this. They use giant axes in tandom with mech suits to fight the alien monsters. The weight of the axe head and the leverage it gives is about the most efficient way to crack the aliens exoskeleton.
For some reason I like the idea of a super-powered human with a really heavy sword doing a wicked long draw or push cut. He traps you with a sword that’s basically just too heavy for you to even shift on your own and then just casually cuts through you like a sausage.
Very fascinating video, and not something I'd considered before! I guess giant weapons really only make sense in universes where everything can basically be explained by magic or chakra or whatever else lol. This video is really great through, and it reminds me a lot of the type of conversations I had with my friends back in highschool lol. Thanks for the great content!
makes me think the "realistic" super strength sword would be like sephiroth's, basically the same in most ways except length, utilizing super strength to increase range while maintaining the weapon's overall power...if that makes any sense.
Against normal strength opponents, that is! If you're super strong and fighting an equally strong opponent, the reach is suddenly less important than durability and maneuverability. I think in the realm of superhumans, reach may be less and less valuable the further you go.
An just think about how WELL and expertly a katana THAT long would have to be made, practically perfectly I'm guessing, an outta some of that rare nearly unbreakable metals too alloyed with top tier blade metal to STILL be 3+ times long as a man an yet basically EASILY slash a car in half thrown at him an everything an one else unfortunate enough to get caught in it's swing with nothing strong enough to block that kinda weapon
@@steelwasp9375then you reach dragonball levels where weapons are significantly weaker than the actual combatants so they’re just back to using their own bodies (or powers)
@@crusadernikolai1996 Basically Elden Ring's Godfrey/Hourah Loux situation where he's stronger and more nimble with his bare hands than with the big axe?
Doubt. That would make it way easier to bend at least, requiring complete reforging, or even break entirely. Too thin.
This is always fun to think about. Even when I have no background in the sword arts.
So Cloud with his Buster Sword... I've always personally viewed the Buster Sword as more of a blade shaped bludgeon or splitting wedge than a cutting implement that he also uses as a shield. The art always varies... it appears to roughly a half-inch thick slab of metal (likely steel as it has been shown to rust) with wedge grind from anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 the width of the blade. The art is pretty consistent that the Buster Sword also has a very build up area (not you can call it a guard) roughly twice the width of the blade before transitioning to the stick handle. (Not sure how much this would shift the balance.) I'd need to do another viewing of the films or fight scenes... but I mostly remember him using a lot overhead chops. Basically raise it up and guide it down. (Been years since I viewed anything FF7 related though.)
I really really need to find it again... but my favorite depiction of a ridiculous large Sword being used was from an Anime with the sword being as large as the tiny female character using it. She obviously had the superhuman strength to pick it up... but they played around alot with the mass of the thing. She would basically get it moving and then let it drag her around as part of the fighting style she used. Pretty improbable I'm sure...but still amusing in it did sorta seem to take physics into play.
I like your background with the presentation of the swords
If I was absurdly strong I’d probably use a club or something, love the vid Skal!
You'd also have to be absurdly heavy and have absurdly strong ligaments, tendons, and muscles. Isn't reality just incredibly boring?
Hehe. True. You don't need to cut anything if you hit soo hard that anything you hit breaks into pieces only from the force transfer XP
@@phalanx8437 Strength might not include weight but it damn sure as hell includes things like ligaments and muscles being strong. Otherwise what exactly is strong about you? You can only rules lawyer this stuff so much before you end up in dumb territory saying they would dust their bones by moving.
@@Merilirem They would that's why it's fantasy you goblin, we're not seriously ruminating or hypothesising about the functions of the super soldier we're creating in some esoteric lab.
There's strict rules that govern physics, and weight is absolutely one of the corner stones, you can't swing a a two ton sword without greater mass behind it to counter the inertia, you'd fling yourself into a wall or rip your arms off, doesn't take a physics major to deduce that.
We'd need materials and power sources far beyond what we have now to even devise mechs capable of producing this type of force so some nerds can get off watching 40 billion $ gundams swing some sword and cut a tank in half.
It's not happening for a very long time, it's like the people endlessly prattling about terraforming mars, pure ignorance on basic understanding of the things they're talking about.
If you try to swing hard enough to go through a house, you better have the durability to withstand the same amount of power. The kinetic force you put into a strike also goes back through your body.
"What is a sword? A miserable little pile of steel."
OMG you kill me, Dracula.
Loved the Symphony of the Night, "What is a man?" joke
FINALLY!!! I've been waiting for Skall to talk about Kanabo's for years.
but you have to aim with an axe or pole when big unwieldy sword has edge on all of the contact surface, one successful hit and you are done considering you can only dodge it.
one thing that is 100% useless is a tip of the giant sword, but i guess that is for weight distribution
Looking great, Skallagrim! Wonderful video as usual.
Until the end, I was gonna comment that this argument hinges on the assumption of super human vs. regular humans. So yeah, large swords only really make sense if there is a reasonable assumption that your super human will run into other super humans.
I mean context is something that matters here, yes while characters like Cloud or Guts would probably be better off with say weapons that bash rather than slice. You can tell by their opponents they need both a measure of speed and strength to overcome obstacles. And it helps that their iconic swords don't break easily. Plus I feel like a sword exudes more main protagonist energy than a mace or axe, blame fire emblem if you want but when writing a character I feel like a mace or axe just tells us the character is really strong. A sword however tells us that not only is a character strong but they have precision when it comes to their work, even if what they are wielding is a rather unwieldy hunk of metal. I mean this trope dates back to Seigfried and Seigurd who wielded Balmug and Gram and they were far from the most dainty weapons a person could use. I guess narrative in this case at least fictional narrative matters, as much as we make fun of the east romanticising the sword the truth is we do it as well in our fiction, I mean when was the last time we heard of a strong protagonist wielding a spear or an axe or a big hammer ya know.
Giant swords go back at least as far as Beowulf in Western Europe, when Beowulf uses a giant sword to kill Grendel's mother. Plus, Dragon Slayer and Buster Sword aren't razor sharp, they have thick wedge-shaped edges, like an axe or guillotine. Their blades are also broad and thick enough to not wobble or droop like a stretched out longsword.
Look, I just want to make someone into two pieces.
I love the backdrop on this one, just a lot of beautiful pieces, The jian, short messer, long messer, skalchion etc...
A Sword would be better for a speedster."Did that giant die from one deep cut? or 9001 shallow cuts all in the same place?". A Bat made of dense Dwarf star alloy should be better for a strongman/barbarian type. The biggest problem might be E=MC2 if a hit was hard enough. It's funny to think strongman/barbarian type has to hit each bad guy lightly or thay set of an explosion. The true power of The Stick, Shad would love that. LOL
This reminded me of a modern fantasy series I read which people with superhuman strength might use swords, but they basically had to develop alternatives to how they are used to prevent their strength from just destroying the swords in use.
ie, they dont use static blocks because it will ruin the sword pretty much immediately.
I love the theme. Those sort of questions are what attracted me in Shadiversity Channel. I think a bit like @grungeknuckle5577 in that matter, perhaps the armour is being neglected. Not just because all things being equal is preferable to have armour than not to have armour, also because armour is the potential solution for your problem of not having weight enough to swing your stick. It can potentially solve your problem of not have weight enough to do anything you want to do, actually. You only have to go to your blacksmith and ask him for what he has been trying to not give you: a lot of weight.
I believe you stepped in a huge distinction and didn't explored it much (because your focus was swords versus war-hammers). A character who has extra-strengh and extra-weight to match is very different from his equivalent who has just the extra-strengh and normal weight. Character A is a lot less idyllic.
If that's modern setting, with 20 times your weight you probably cannot use most public elevators. If it is medieval I am not sure if you will ride a bull, a rhinoceros, or if you must travel in a carriage designed specially for you. But I would suppose you are not ridding a normal horse. If your condition is hereditary, you must be a nobleman (how could you not ?) so you probably don't have difficulty to find people to build those carriages, special boats, and furniture. However, that still has a limit.
If instead of 20 times stronger and heavier you happen to be 2.000.000 times stronger and heavier, that would probably limit your life more than a little. You would only be able to walk is very solid ground, and would have to think twice before each step, so to speak.
While a character who has only the strength and no extra weight would only get advantages (and all advantages the other fellow was, if we consider the armour trick works) and no problems. This fellow would even be able to swim like a normal person. Climb things like a Robert Howard's Cimmerian, probably.
Since we understand neither of those characters are braking from the impact of those heavy war hammers against things, I suppose they have some extra resistance to impact. If that's correct, then the B fellow should be able to pull that nice trick insects can do. The one where they fall from any high and don't take any damage. Given to air resistance setting a limit to how fast things can fall, and that velocity in their case being only enough to cause a impact bellow the impact they can take.
So, for B, the strongest he can be the better. While A would want to avoid excess.
Man, I love your fantasy wepons' videos. That's the kind of shit I usually think and start talking about with my friends (tho the only weapon knowledge I have is from common sense and watching your videos, which is way less than you actually have). Always fun to watch!
hmmm. The thought that comes to my mind is that with arbitrary super-strength, you might not need to focus more force onto a point OR weight your weapon for balance - you're "strong enough" that normally secondary considerations can come to the forefront. With a giant sword, you can have an entirely sharp weapon. Given super-toughness sometimes seems to be specifically vulnerable to "sharp" (that is, blunt force doesn't do much when distributed, but cuts can cut), I think there's an argument that in duels of this kind of super-strong characters, you want a sharp weapon with as little blunt "haft" as possible so that you can threaten with the entire length. That pushes away from clubs, hammers, axes and polearms and towards swords?
What I generally think of when I think super strength wielding a sword is basically just someone using a claymore or zwiehander in the same manner as a normal person would use a longsword or arming sword.
I feel like this is very subjective to how much more strength the character has. Because at 2x, 3x, even 5x, maybe even as far as 10x, you'd be probably fine with just a heavier version of a regular sword, axe, mace or what have you. But once the strength goes so far that you're going toe-to-toe against things that might just destroy your weapon, then just get a thick stick of the strongest material you can find. Because at that point durability and ease of production start to come in before effectiveness.
Superhuman strength would make any normal weapon snap or bend. I think the most practical weapon would be something like a roman cestus. Kind of an armored glove though I've seen historical examples that were cast in one piece. Basically a mace you wear over the hand.
Notice how giant swords are much less of a factor in fantasy books than in games or movies. This is because in a visual medium, the design is the main narrative vehicle. Fantasy weapons are designed for maximum appeal, readability and symbolism, they evoke and convey to the audience qualities of the character. They are all about symbol and inference - not practicality, because of course they don't have to actually cut anything - their sharpness is determined by the game designed and inscribed in stats.
Silly large swords make a lot more sense when you are facing down a Rajang or a Chameleos.
To me, the problem with giant swords and super strength is that it doesn't matter if you cut someone's arm off or head off with a giant sword and super strength, or with a normal sword and normal strength. Either way, they're down an arm or a head. Essentially, there's a point that you reach relatively soon where adding more strength/mass into the equation doesn't actually really increase the damage you're inflicting, as no or minimal additional energy is being transferred and you're already past the point of 'will I cut through this?'. Even if you assume the target has enhanced durability this issue still exists- all you're doing is shifting the point beyond which more strength is redundant.
Blunt weapons, on the other hand, keep transferring that additional energy from the swing for much further into the realm of super strength and super size, so they make much more effective use of it.
Funny thing is, is that when I wrote characters and technical info for my things, the characters are in posession of enhancements that enhance them. Thing is, is that armor apart (which btw allows to wear heavier armor), their general preferred state of weaponry are hammers and axes and other weapons that take advantage of the brute force. Especially given the opposite end has a spike that, considering physics, allows to concentrate A LOT of strength in a single point, shattering the point of impact and devastating whatever is hit. While they will be outclassed by a far faster swordsman, it is no denying that it is a very hard situation. Especially if your opponent can crack your ribs with a kick, punch, or hold you in place while they skewer their target with a knife or sword. They take preference in weapons and fighting styles that end with one or two precise blows to the target.
Hell, if they use swords, they use normal-sized ones given strength also means increased swing speed and movement speed of the muscles, allowing to operate the weapon faster, more precise, and harder.