"Best" & "Worst" Melee Weapons? - How to Rate Objectively
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Anyone who is interested in historical arms and armor and/or fantasy RPG equipment has their opinions on which sword or other weapon is better than others, always with a certain level of bias of course. Is there a way in which we can look at different designs with more objectivity? It's never going to be perfect, but here are my thoughts on what to keep in mind, and some suggestions for criteria to score.
If you're heavily invested in the katana vs. longsword fanboy war by the way you may be disappointed to find how I personally compare them. :)
I also have some ratings for the Klingon bat'leth from Star Trek, which @shadiversity doesn't seem to be terribly fond of. ;)
More thoughts on it:
• The Klingon Bat'leth: ...
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#swords #weapons #history
Do more. Go nuts. Axes, maces, flails, polearms, messers, etc. I would watch every single one.
Go really nuts and do exotic weapons: chakrams, macuahuitls, katars, hookswords ect.
I would too. That would be quite enjoyable
And a special episode for various polearm heads. Could be fun idk
Halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd halberd
Oh heck even do everything on it's own category and compare the winners after
Skallagrim: "Torches and pitchforks!"
Me: (expecting to see the stats for torches and pitchforks)
We all gotta min max before the lynching!
The upside and downside of the torches and pitchforks combo is that it's wholly reliant on the number of people in its mob.
@@Profile__1 and the target. if you are facing people on a rained on hill then torches are far less usefull as the pitchforks
also the pitchforks are more usefull if they still have pitch on them (potentially not even need ing torches at that point)
@@bradpotts1747 No, pitchforks are useful by themselves - you probably would be surprised how long did bidented and tridented pitchforks exist in armories as military forks.
@@nikmenn2751 pitch forks are (wouldnt you know it) used to move pitch. pitch was commonly used to make torches. it is by definition not a military fork irregardless of its effectiveness or how commonly it was used as one.
that said, im not sure how much harder i could have been winking with that comment
When it comes to daggers and armor, it always reminds me of something Ambrose Bierce wrote.
“MISERICORDE, n. A dagger which in mediaeval warfare was used by the foot soldier to remind an unhorsed knight that he was mortal.”
The double meaning of the last part is superb.
When it comes to daggers and armor it reminds me of battle brothers and surrounding a knight with shivs to peel him out of it so you can sell his mint condition armor.
@@the_soggster3464 For every loss there is a gain. And if it is in coins, the better.
love the implication that a horsed knight is
Is the double meaning that low-caste men can upset the nobility?
@@Jathrael And not just a tummy ache.
Obviously the best weapon is the one that can defeat the armor that can defend against the most weapons...a giant can opener
A bottle off rust monster venom.
Like playing Dark Souls with guys throwing the durability bombs.
@@psycomutt Scraping Spear >>>>>
That needs to be an anime. I personally envisioned a comedy where armor (or maybe giant robots) are covered in exposed screws and bolts, where the main character uses super speed combined with a screwdriver to remove the fastenings in the blink of an eye.
Really like this presentation and agree with pretty much all of the ratings. Maybe this could be a mini-series ranking specific weapons of each type in every episode.
I agree
yes, I'd definitely watch a series on these kinds of stats.
Better to rank swordsmanship, at which nearly all historical reconstructionists will fail because they don't train sufficiently under the instruction of masters.
(The only masters in historical European I know of, especially after searching for on on youtube, are the guys who get paid a lot of money to choreography for the movies, and the best FIE teachers who train the Olympic Fencers.)
HEMA = Historic Exaggeration of Martial Ability
If you want a really badass sharp bladed weapon and can't decide between a sword and a spear, consider the wickedly effective Zulu assegai.
Double-edged, long, wide, cutting sharp, pointy, agilely handled with both one and two hands, robust enough to parry, with a wide variety of effective ranges and even usable as a balanced piercing projectile, it does it all!
No, your assegai.
@@jkenzo87 Well, my personal bodyguard robot, then. 😆
The traditional Zulu assegai is still a model. I don't know exactly at which point the customisation of one assegai in particular make it non-Zulu.
Pommel
Damage: 7 (Not only does it end the opponent, but it ends them rightly, thus rubbing salt into the wound)
Anti-Armor: 7 (The Noble Pommel simply disregards armor, as armor is only used by cowards who cannot end their opponents rightly)
Durability: Infinite (The Pommel is eternal. No mundane thing like wear, tear, rust, or time can tarnish it)
Speed: 300,000 k/s (The pommel is light, but powerful, enabling it to go the speed of light)
Reach: 7 (Nobody can escape the reach of the pommel)
Defense: 6 (Okay, I know I'm being overly nit-picky with this one, but it doesn't have a cross-guard, so it can't universally defend against literally everything both real and imaginary)
Adaptability: 5 (Again, don't crucify me, but the pommel can't do literally everything. It still hasn't filed my taxes, and my dog still died)
Affordability: 1 (This is "debatably" its weakest point, as only the worthy can wield the true pommel)
When fused with the mighty stick, we get the hammer: forger of all lesser weapons, and civilization itself.
@@marctaco2624 Mother of God!
@@marctaco2624 Given the shape of a pommel it would be a mace, wouldn't it?
@@poilboiler depends on the pommel
The right measure is km, not k... That could be referring to kilotons, kilograms... Anything, actually.
I'd say adaptibility has to be higher on a dagger, its a weapon that has been used basically since forever and it is still used, like a fairburn-sikes dagger in modern military.
sure, you always need one when it comes down to an eventual grapple, but grapples can be avoided
in terms of actual combat roles, its not so great, both sword and dagger can be used behind a shield, but only a sword can be used on horseback or in formation
For ancient times, I think the best bet for average performance would be a mace. Easy to maintain, easy to use, works against armor, unlikely to hurt yourself, can block hits without worrying about dulling the weapon.
Regarding adaptability, it can also be thrown for more reach, although realistically with pretty terrible damage and ease of use (plus, you're disarming yourself in doing so, so not really an ideal move either way, I'm afraid, but still worth noting).
Well to be fair a dagger is the only melee weapon used in a modern military. So it doesn't have to compete with anything.
@@berserkerpride combat knives are still in use by modern militaries, yes. But those are almost never used as a weapon. I'd guess that "clubs" are more often used vs people (or rifle stocks as such).
Sticks-clubs-shields are still used by law enforcement agencies.
More of this! I love holistic breakdowns that take a weapon out of a narrow mindset and into its broader more historical place.
6:35 - In addition to its use with a large shield, the gladius is also supposed to exist as a part of a weapon system with the pila (throwing spear or heavy javelin). The pila provides the flexibility of being used as either a throwing weapon that may partially disable the enemy's shield, or be used as a 7 foot thrusting spear.
The pila would still be incredibly ineffective as a spear. The durability would be horrible, it was used in desperate situations against cavalry in close quarters but it was designed specifically as a Javelin.
There's quite a few weapons like that. Zulu iklwa is meant for use with a shield and a handful of assegai. So are a number of other African close combat weapons.
@@Romulus-mn9uq Caesar defeated Pompei and became the absolute ruler of Rome by using a single cohort using their pila as spears. Design it however you want, no one likes to get impaled
@@mortache what battle? No one wants their spear head to suddenly bend either. Pila were literally meant to break from hard contact, so the enemy couldn't throw them back at the legionaries once stuck in their Shields.
@@mortache and now put your beloved "pilamen" against guys with sarissas. Caesar fought against romans who shared the same equipment, putting this battle as an example doesn't make pila the best spear. It's a spear, yes, but against better spears it's not even closely as good. The main strength of Caesar's army was discipline and adaptability of his men, not pila tactics.
Also, I ran some calculations based on the prop for Worf's bat'leth. A high-carbon steel version would probably weigh about 4.5 kg. Which isn't nearly nearly as bad as the 5.2 kg canon, but it is still ridiculously heavy, so I suspect it would need some varied thickness to shave off some weight.
Or just space-age-era advanced alloys.
also worth considering that klingons are exceptionally strong compared to humans, they are commonly seen throwing fully grown adults like 4-5 feet into the air
That's why the Doppelsöldner got paid double, and why I have yet to see a modern practitioner who could use one for real. If you haven't trained to be able to hold those swords at full extension, all of the techniques, for at least a minute, you're not strong enough to wield that weapon. (The guys who actually used them would have been incredibly strong, arms, shoulders, fingers, hands and core, and would have likely trained every day from a fairly young age.)
I don't have a ten pound longsword, but I did train with iron staff of that weight in my 20's, and isometrics were a major part of that training, holding the weapon by the end at full extension.
The sledge hammer is much harder than a sword or staff, because all of the weight is at the very end: ua-cam.com/video/A6vl1jBI2VE/v-deo.html
When it comes to self-defense, my brother has a saying, which he heard from some instructor - "Your fist/hand gets you to your knife. Your knife gets you to your gun." Basically, you always want to keep your distance from the other guy whenever possible. Also, if the other fella really wants to fight unarmed, don't drop your weapon - they probably know what they are doing in that case, or are just that crazy.
Oh, you mean it's not like in the media? xD
@@Dack.howaboutyou Where folks drop their weapons and fight like gentlemen with fisticuffs? That went out with Queensberry.
One brutally efficient and under-appreciated weapon is the Roman legionary sword or "Gladius" shorts word. I'm glad he mentioned it. In close combat it's ferocious and deadly. Hard to break, good armor piercing capabilities (for that period).
Rapiers came about after muzzle-loading firearms when plate armor would be as expensive as it is useless. By then, people weren't really wearing armor anymore because it just made you slow and a cannon or musketeer formation would blast you dead ... or some drunk guy in a tavern with a flintlock pistol 5ft away. So once armor was out, rapiers were in. A long, thin thrusting sword was perfect. It can reach far and pierce, and can even cut a bit if you sweep someone with it.
Weapons have to be analyzed like this, and this guy does a great job. Says the same thing about spears I've often said, that they make a thousand peasants into a deadly army. The Viking sword was made for a time when people fought in close formations with heavy shields, thick leather armor and mail. It was built like a heavy cleaving machete that wouldn't break when beating it against wooden shields and pieces of steel. A katana is a totally different design for a different sort of use and fighting. They each dominated the battles of their own time and place. Imagine having to use a katana in a Viking vs Saxon battle, or having to use Viking gear in feudal Japan ... you'd die very quickly ...
havent watched the movie yet, it just started. But I remember several years ago you talked about eating disorders and getting back on track... I would like to congratulate you on the progress bro, you are really looking healthier and better than before, not to mention eyes being more awake. I dont know how you are feeling mentally but physically there is a massive improvement, maybe getting to this point in this comment will mirror the change in mind too, keep up the good work bro.
Love that affordability is a criterion here! The best weapon is always the one that you can get to the most people in your army. Being able to arm and armour your army is a super necessary factor to see considered. Love the content thank you!
spear
I find your assessments of these weapons spot-on, honestly.
How to rate weapons objectively:
First, determine a scenario in which the weapon will be used. This context is absolutely crucial for establishing criteria for objective evaluation.
Second, establish the ideal capability and functions for a weapon in the given scenario. Also, be sure to rank the functions to know which ones are most crucial.
Third, compare all available weapons that fullfil the established criteria. Give extra consideration to those that can perform the crucial functions.
In the even of an objective tie, use the rule of cool.
1. Conditions of deployment
2. Efficacy in deployment
3. Availability for deployment
These sound good?
@@zeekeno823 Accurate, concise and easy to remember. I like it.👍
Before choosing the coolest one in a tie, choose the weapon that is cheaper
Sorry, but you can't just disregard the truly objective facts, like for example, that the spear, due to its superior precision, can aim at individual targets, instead of just at a general are-no, wait, that's the Bren gun vs. the spandau. ( -.-)
This. You can't just say that everything is equal depending on context. Nunchucks are bad regardless of context. No one knowledgeable would grab those off a table full of weapons to defend their life.
@@psycomutt I would say it depends on what the other weapons are.
If all but the Nunchuks are short Daggers the Nunchuk might not be a bad choice.
If the other weapons are Longswords, well that's a completely different stroy.
It all depends on what you are facing, which why it is so hard to say ''this weapon is best weapon''
@@psycomutt No you definitely wouldn't. But you wouldn't shove a mace down your pants while trying to play infiltrator either. You might, however, be able to fold up a pair of nunchuks and bring them with you. They're in the same category of weapons as switchblades, palm pistols, and sword canes: weapons that sacrifice a lot of lethality for being easier to hide.
Gun Jesus
@@KartarNighthawk IIRC nunchucks exist to get around bans on weapons imposed by either Imperial China or Japan. Many of the crazy weapons monks ended up training to use was because they weren't allowed to own weapons of war. Samurai had the same limitation when off the battlefield, which is why martial arts for "lesser" weapons like clubs and war fans exist. Nunchucks specifically evolved out of grain threshers, I believe.
The general direction of the rating is fine but id change some points which would make a difference. Usability/finesse is a factor to add. That clingon weapon even easier to use as a dagger in my opinion. Combination of weapons or shields with an empty hand is making it more complex but no ones holding a dagger with two hands so its not a fair comparison... Id like more videos of this! :)
Superb video. Love how you continuously mention that the context and circumstance is the main determinant of what's "best"
21:50 i personally think a katana should rank a point lower on durability since its made extremely hard so is likely to break especially if you whack an armored opponent with the flat or the spine of the sword
It also has atrocious edge retention and a very small guard, which cannot be used offensively and barely protects the hand.
as far as i'm aware, katana have extremely diverse blade construction, with various hardness's throughout the blade, according to the user or craftsman's intentions
also including material composition, its better just to compare weapons, assuming they have equal production quality, otherwise there's no point comparing them
as any medieval spear or longsword crafted within japan would necessarily be composed according to the same material constraints of said country and in-turn require the similar methods of compensation such as folding, which is necessary to make blades from poor quality steel
@@maxkore278 Thank you.
Too many people believe that the Japanese process exists to make blades indestructible, and not simply to make volcanic iron usable.
@@maxkore278 nope if your working with a poor material theres only so much you can do to improve it with skill alone. if you make two identical swords by the same level of craftmanship with two different material qualities the one with the poor material quality is gonna fail first period. i do agree it does have various hardness's throughout it but it doesn't stop it from breaking when hitting something hard since even the lowest hardness level on a katana is well above that of a normal sword so slapping it with the flat or using the spine for anti armour purposes will break it.
@DatBoiOrly
comparing weapons with different material quality is pointless, for that exact reason
in order to compare them in the first place, rather than compare the materials (which doesn't actually tell us anything about the items themselves), we have to first assume the items being compared are of equal production
otherwise the comparison is just ingenuous, just compare a spring steel sword to a spring steel katana, the end
I'd like to see a Part 2 some day. I'm curious how the humble Arming Sword would measure up.
Entirely a function of the skill and level of training of the person wielding it. What I'm seeing from Historical European on youtube **
I was disappointed you didn't include a bo, or staff as it were it's nothing more than a walking stick. But it can have great results in combat. A staff in my case is a minimum of 6 ft long. I really enjoy you content. Keep it up. It makes me think of different situations, and applications.
But.. a staff is just a spear without the blade.
When I was training with Katana I was taught to use the blunt back for parrying opponents blades and sharp edge for striking.
You can also grab the back end to half sword or push in for close range tearing. Same thing with a dao.
Holy, ive been loving your content even more as for late, sire, continue this type of format
i would love to see you class the one handed and two handed jian style swords by the same criteria. i am curious what you think about them and i think they are different enough from the japanese and european counterparts that they deserve to be talked about more. purely from a looks standpoint they are some of my favorites and they certainly be quite effective.
A war hammer would be fun to see. The first two categories would need more dots.
If I had to choose I would pick the Warhammer.
That Castlevania SOTN colosseum Background. Thumbs up sir! You have great taste.
Estoc
Damage: 3
Anti-Armour: 6 (Was used for penetrating gaps in armour)
Durability: 6 (Was even used for boar hunting it was so durable)
Speed: 3
Reach: 4 (Some were up to 130cm long)
Defence: 3.5
Adaptability: 5 (Could easily be used with the mordhau grip, was also used as a lance)
Affordability: 1
Estoc is such an underrated sword type. What other sword can replace a knight’s broken lance?
The best weapon is the one you got when you need it.
I did this for a game I'm deciding.
Great work! But I instead of adaptability, I did Concealability, basically how easy is it to carry around or carry it without it being noticed.
The dagger is a wonderful weapon in that case.
The social acceptability of weapons is something I'm going to be working into any RPGs I run from now on. Some hamlet is probably not going to say anything to a bunch of heavily armed and armored adventurers, but a well guarded city is going to tell the PCs to leave most weapons and armor at the gate. Maybe affected by social class (i.e. class and background), too. Like, a noble would still be allowed to keep an arming sword, a soldier (not necessarily a fighter) a short sword or mace, an acolyte or cleric a mace, etc.
Or a well guarded city might tell them to check their weapons in at the inn or wherever else they're staying.
Great video idea, please keep up and please rate the spear sword, like the zombie tools one that you reviewed
My pick for top S tier (posting before watching)...
Shield. Best defense, incredible versatility, surprisingly decent damage, works on the field and in duels and blunt force trauma works on armored and unarmored opponents. It's also very cheap. Downsides are reach (overcome by defense imo), portability (it's big), durability (most models were considered disposable but the low cost to make outweighs this) and relatively low damage .
Post watch edit: Lol, I've been called out! I'm a sword and shield specialist so of course... That said I think it would stack up pretty well. Ok damage, good anti-armor, low speed, low reach, off the charts defense, great affordability and versatility. I also think weapon v weapon in a duel situation it would do well. Against a longsword you'd be fucked but I wouldn't be too scared against anything that has fewer angles of attack.
Problem is that it's not a weapon, it's a defensive tool. You could use it a a weapon but that's not the point, anything solid enough can be used as a weapon.
@@gavinrobinson8925 Sure, anything can be a weapon but I'm not going to pick a rubber chicken to be my S tier weapon. Shields were (and still are) used offensively.
@@capitalistraven But they aren't considered a "weapon", which is what this list is about. They share more properties with gauntlets in practice; defensive items that are hard enough to strike with, but typically aren't designed with that as a main feature in mind, just a by-product of it. A shield is really it's own kind of beast, armour that you hold like a weapon instead of wearing. What would be most fair is to just have a dedicated shield list/shield combo list.
@@gavinrobinson8925 Not considered a weapon by who? You? I disagree. Explain why please. If a " not weapon" is more effective in combat than a "weapon" to you maybe you should examine your definitions.
@@capitalistraven A "weapon" is an item made with intention to harm others, a shield is an item designed to protect yourself/formation, period. Again, because you didn't understand the first time i said it, just because it can be used as a weapon (I'm not disagreeing on that) doesn't mean it is one, it is a shield, made to shield you, what you choose to do with it from there doesn't change that fact. A byproduct of design, not the design.
And you're tripping out if you think a shield by itself is better than literally any other properly made dedicated weapon. I for one would take a knife over a shield in single combat any day, grab it or push it out of the way with one hand and attack with the other. A shield is only useful in tandem with a weapon, just think about it, if someone attacked you with a sword and all you had was 1 shield, would you A fight him, or B ditch the shield and trust in your legs. Case and point, the shield complements the weapon, not the other way around.
In a modern context, where you're trying to defend yourself by ending an attack fast, nothing beats a Flat Leather Sap, Blackjack, or Soft Lead-Shot Filled Sap, for a weighted bludgeon that is also portable, usually has a strap for retention, and wrapped in leather to reduce bounce during impact. They're also tried and tested for hundreds of years by police departments, militaries, and on the wild west frontier. There's several good quality makers that I've purchased from in Canada.
I spy someone that comes from Object History.
Other than guns of course. Knuckledusters are pretty effective too.
I would say a high lumen flashlight is the best personal self defense tool. You can non lethally disable someone without getting into striking range. With the added benefit of being legally to carry everywhere.
@@williamjenkins4913 A good flashlight is a critical piece of kit. I like mace as a non-lethal deterrent as well. It's good option between a strong word and a gun that is surprisingly effective.
@@hookedblades6471 Guns aren't that good for actually defending yourself, they're more for intimidation. Even highly trained police officers only hit 34% of their shots in high-stress situations, and most people aren't highly trained, especially not under stress.
0:56 the delivery on that was so good. Made the whole joke
Finally got the chance to sit down and watch this. Ive been trying since you released it. But i have to say, i really enjoyed it and have to applaud you for admitting bias... However i also agree there. Swords in general are pretty adaptable weapons and can be used in a huge variety of applications, both on their own and with shield or dual wielded with another weapon, when compared to other weapons. Its a sort of jack of all trades that is hard to beat when it comes to giving weapons a score.
I like your general approach to debating the effectiveness of weapons, real or fictional. It's more about the fun and entertainment of it than a serious attempt at reaching some "objective" conclusion. At least, that's the impression I've gotten from you in previous videos.
I'm in rural Alaska, my favorite and effective edged weapon is my snow shovel.
I've used them all my life. I know how to pick a good one.
A well build shovel has so many advantages for both offence and defense.
Huge advantage : You can open carry a shovel in most counties.
I would define adaptability as how easily a random person could pick it and use it to effectively defend/attack.
Ah, that's a very different interpretation of that term. I'd prefer "ease of use" for clarity.
@@Skallagrim I would assume adaptability to mean how readily a tool could be used in a wude variety of situations.
@@Skallagrim I would say this is one of most forgotten part when comparing weapons. Swords, Polearms/Spears, Daggers are soo common in history because they are easiest to use upgrades of club,staff and sharp rock.
Handling..for skill to use? Adaptability I would say be how different can it be used. Battlefield, urban, charges, defensively, surprise, formation, solo, etc.
@@paweplaczek2191 That's not really the main reason they're so common though. The main reason is simply that they're really good at what they're supposed to do. Ease of use (and affordability) is secondary to that. Not saying it's completely unimportant, but still not as important as plain effectiveness.
The best weapon is fear. Fear is the mind killer. If your opponent has no mind, you can just move in for the kill. ✔
Nowadays you generally don’t need fear to achieve that
I've seen some terrified people do some weird things that dropped a stronger opponent. Your worst weapon in that scenario, would be your overconfidence.
@@skasteve6528 i dont think that’s the fear he was referring to. Maybe what you mean should be called desperation or a strong motivation in this context. Theres a fear which completely paralyzes and disables you. Like a despair
Love the outdoor walk to begin video. Thank you for a enjoyable time.
Mate your editing game is getting insane
This is the best ranking system I've seen so far!
I'd put the defence of the longsword lower because in my experience I find longswords tend to fall short against sword and shield or polearms
Longsword's defense is most suited against another longsword.
@@planescaped its reach might contribute to defense
Shields are OP in defence.
I'm new to HEMA but this was my thought as well
The longsword is just a bit, well, long, to easily and quickly defend with
@@JainaSoloB312 the proportional weight of the guard and pommel shift the balance towards tour hand, making the blade deceiving quick and maneuverable. This is why rapiers are so quick despite being longer and sometimes heavier than arming swords.
An aspect of spear I think worth mentioning that seems to not be accounted for here (or in most discussions on the subject) is that spears work *very* well in a group compared to many weapons, especially non-pole weapons.
Like, in a dual or one on one, a spear isn't great.But if you and 30 of your most violent friends want to go raid the english, making sure everyone has a spear goes a long way. You can help cover your friends, you can jab at people that aren't just the guy in front of you, you can killsteal from like 5ft away while your buddy is still waiting for an opening from their angle, etc.
None of this matters at all one-on-one or in a duel, of course, but it's a big part of spears being the "king of weapons"(at least on battlefields) for most of history.
would honestly love to see more of this but the using different types of weapons per video, so rating a weapon in just its "family" of weapons and not with every weapon in mind, like not comparing a dagger with a longsword, but daggers with daggers
I really like this. As people already stated below: do more of this and go nuts!
Thanks for the vid!
Outstanding idea for a metric, damn fine video sir.
SPEARS.
Kreigsmesser is also pretty badass too
Agreed
Also spears lose to sword and shield 9 out of 10 times. Swordman can wait for the spearman to thrust and move past the head and hes done for. Spear and shield is THE ancient setup for war, as its cheaper than sword and shield. Those who could afford sword and shield preferred it, because it was better for both medium and close up fighting. If spears were so good the romans would have used them instead of gladius.
Ahh, imagine a world where 1/2in of scrap wood can stop your "perfect weapon" that is the world we live in. Glaive beats spear in pretty much every defensive scenario as it actually ends the fight there and then, unlike a spear where the guy will bleed out a minute later. Dont believe me look up spearhunting videos
Despite what many think the use of the spear two handed in warfare VERY rarely happened, its easy in hema to use this setup and claim how its superior because there is no risk of death and its one touch one point. You can run someone through with your spear and they cut you down, even cavalry lances failed against backsword at waterloo. If you went on an ancient battlefield with just a spear you would be dead in less than a minute
@@chroma6947 Dude, the Romans still carried spears.
Great conversation starter. I would prefer a different criteria however. Instead of a stat list, create a list of combat scenario archetypes such as self defense, open field, mountainous terrain, and on a boat. Keep up the good work.
3:17
Ok. I’ll be vibing with my walking stick/spear combo all day long :)
As been pointed out, it depends, but I would have some pretty straight forward categories (I'm writing this as the video is playing in the background):
In terms of ubiquity, commonality from ease of use/production, that would be some sort of spear. Varying size offerings/usage can keep you safe at a distance, any idiot can use it with minimal training (and survive better), and it punctures through most types of armor (and can scale better with velocity). Minimum third place no matter how you argue it.
In terms of best overall, I would go with warhammers (including bec de corbins and lucerne hammers, as well). It's good against any type of armor. It's versatile in it's construction (it doesn't have to be bludgeoning surfaces on both sides - you can have a spike). With training, you can have it be pretty versatile with it (meaning you could debilitate them instead of making them bleed to death). It requires minimal maintenance (you don't really have to worry about sharpening things), and the construction is simpler compared to most bladed weapons. You could literally use it as a tool.
Loved this video and would really love to see more of this. Like some other people have commented, i think a sort of "skill level" or "profeciency" rating would be good, as some weapons are easier to wield effectively than others (ex. club vs sword).
Also, to me the "Adaptability" rating would be split between "environmental" which would have factors like environment and ease of carry, and "matchups" which would be their effectiveness against different weapons (both offense and defense).
the outdoor areas you show are often amazing.
Imagine you find yourself with a vast selection of historical weapons in front of you.
You are told you have to fight someone else who has the same choice of weapons.
Which one do you pick?
I really enjoyed this video, i just thought it was too short!!!! All of a sudden, 30 minutes went by and i still wanted more!
I like your categories and your explanations for each weapon. Im not sure what the bedt word to describe Adaptability is, but i feel what you wanted it to encompass and agree its a good category to represent things that are hard to represent. Like how hard it is to just carry a spear around verse a dagger
I find it interesting to note how often taverns are mentioned as a place of battle.
i would have to argue an extra point in durability to the katana over the longsword due to the differential hardening, a katana would be much more resistant to outright snapping than a fully hardened and tempered longsword of similar price category, but great vid Skal haven't watched much of your stuff in a while but enjoyed this one
You've gotta do more, man! Clubs, maces, flails, tridents, shamshirs, self bows, composite bows, crossbows, etc
3:16 _"I dare you to imagine carrying this around in everyday life. For civilian self defense."_
Just break it in half, tie the ends with a cord/chain, and hide it in your pants 👍
Then you can no longer use it as a long spear. Flail techniques remain from basic slinging one half using the other half as handle, all the way to the sophisticated special moves in Asian martial arts.
The perfect loadout would be:
Chainmail over gambeson with plated armor on the arms and legs, spear, shield, one handed sword, warhammer and a dagger.
In my humble opinion.
So no protection for head and torso? Reminds me of fantasy characters with a wide open chest and an exposed heart. Usually defeated only by kindness, with the exposed heart a symbolic cue.
With a crossbow clipped to the hip.
Sorry for being pedantic but perfect for what?
I would also point out that plates on the limbs and not on the torso is not a great idea, since they are not the best fatigue-wise as they will lack the support of the main cuirass in terms of attachment, resting entirely on the limbs and also being the heaviest form of armor on the parts of your body you are going to move the most.
Moreover, mail is strictly inferior to plate on the chest, as it will cover most of the body and will be better supported, possibly lighter and just better at protecting you from arrows, spear and impact of weapons.
@@johndododoe1411 Chainmail over gambeson cover from the neck to the hip, but for me the helmet is so obvious that I forgot to mention. chainmail is good against slashing and gambeson is good against blunt, wood and leather shield for arrows and piercing.
@@marctaco2624 Javelins carried by a horse or squire. Crossbows are for less knightly man.
One of my favorite Skall vids in awhile.
Haha, the bubble wrap worked. I had this video on in the background and was buttering sandwiches and completely stopped and had to see what you were doing on screen when the bubble wrap started 😂
having trained with both katana and longswords, I can say that the longsword guard IS slightly better than a katana for hand protection, but maybe only half a dot? And it's honestly more due to the length of the blade than it is the guard itself. The longer blade changes the geometry slightly and makes it somewhat more difficult to hit the hand, especially with a decent sized hand guard.
If they have a big guard, hit the arm instead of the hand. (Drawing you blade against the inside of the elbow, pressing in in as you twist the waist to slice, will be particularly effective because of the tendons.) Also never forget that a real swordsman only needs two fingers to wield, even heavy swords.
Gotta appreciate the Coliseum from Symphony Of The Night in the background!
one of the great things about forged in fire is the power to see people fail to make the same weapon the same way, or even fail to make a good weapon compared to a quality version of the same. Rapiers vs. War Rapiers, Ancestral/WW2 quality katanas vs. the tourist 20 dollar katanas, and the various claymores vs. zweihanders vs. flamberge. Some weapons will actually go through plate, some will cut a pig in half, and some will handily block or reach targets 6ft away. But price, fragility, and weight can all become issues. I also agree some weapons really are better than others, but theres a great many that are just an assembly of pros and cons.
Skallagrim walking about weapons while having a walk through a Nordic winterland is such a mood.
You forgot to add an "intimidation" stat. Any fight you don't have to fight because your opponent ran away is a good fight.
Yeah, sometimes just having a visible weapon will make a mugger or bully move on to a softer target.
I think Lindybeige had a video about some WWII flamethrower tanks that while good at clearing out fortifications were really much better at making the enemy surrender before any lives were lost. Not really melee or self defense weapons, but they worked on the same principle.
Definitely, some street rat is not going to try anything if you’re carrying a broadsword or pole axe.
Hearing "you know, everyday situations, like a tavern brawl or being jumped in an alley" made me chuckle
I'm very excited for more of these if they come!
You SO didn't want to say Context. I found it amusing. :)
That all makes sense, except I would bring learning curve under the umbrella of Afordility. The time and energy you spend learning something is as important as the money.
Since you mentioned them, I would like to also see gladius and scutum as well as rapier and dagger.
Hi, Skal, great review but in my opinion longswords, katanas and other cross/disk guard weapons don't provide best defense. You noted that and added that it depends on a skill. However, an experienced fencer with a dagger would be able to win an inexperienced guy with zweihaender. And hands are terribly vulnerable in HEMA sparrings with longswords even for experienced fencers (like about 80% of hits are hand-sniped). So, I guess if you added a rapier/basket hilt sword/sabre with big guard, that would be 5/5 in terms of defense
Finally!
Ive been saying this for so long! People hyper focus on duels in an open arena!
I saw one comparing video doing HEMA vs Wing Chun and it was Butterfly Knives to a Longsword and they put them against each other in a duel in an open field.
Like WHAT???
Butterfly knives are cheap, carryable concealable, knives used for civilian self defense and no-armor gang fights in relatively modern urban environments. Youd be fighting with guys with picks, chains, sticks, and other short arms and impromptu weapons in scraps that dont really maintain formations .
The longsword is a multi-use battlefield weapon meant to contest against armor, horses, spears, usually used in formations.
If I wouldnt be able to carry around a long sword without catching suspicion from the polices ESPECIALLY in rural American West where Chinese folks were regularly hounded by authorities. But Butterfly knives can be
Not to mention - in the West at least - Butterfly knives were usually made by local tool blacksmiths, not weapons smiths from China or Europe. I dont think they wouldve been able even forge a longsword even if you provided them with appropriate pay.
Same goes for the Jian. Is an side sword meant to arm a MASSIVE standing army with limited iron resources. Its part of kit and can be used alongside a shield and polearm.
Comparing it to a rapier - a relatively costly dueling/self defense weapon - is beyond goofy.
Those were Chinese butterfly blades which are quite heavy and sharp cleavers - not balisongs. Still quite pointless comparison and butterflies were quite effective.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Yeah I see what you mean. I was using concealable and carryable as relative terms.
Like you can keep them on your person without looking like you're about ready to be on the battlefield.
Was that an SvC Chaos stage as the background? AND a SotN stage? Be still my heart!
Personal favorites, I like warhammers, axes and sort of obscure smaller blades like kukris and parangs, etc. I like weapons that hack or whack, it feels more satisfying than a clean slice or a firm poke.
Short answer: every weapon has it's purpose - some fast to make, some long in reach, some agile etc.
The best weapon in day to day is the one that is or can always be with you. The best one on a battlefield depends on the enemy.
The best for a collector is the rarest.
I mean blunt weapons are underrated af, no need to worry about edge alignment with most, low maintenance, simple to use, u neednt worry bout it getting stuck inside the opponent
I've been carrying a military grade flip baton for years. I've never been comfortable with the idea of stabbing someone so I don't carry blades. The most effective weapon is the one your willing to use. Drawing blood is not something to take lightly.
That transition was sick
I imagine by the criteria presented that the rapier would score quite highly. Please make more of these!
I used to believes spear is the best too. but then I play blade and sorcery VR felt quite real when you attach weight on your both arms with 3-5kg weight.
Now my main weapon is heater shield and short sword sometime small hammer with heater shield if enermies wear armor.
With short sword, Just raised your shield move close stab them in the thigh then neck. done. IRL we dont need any huge damage to kill someone just gentle slide on their neck is enough.
But with armored enermies. raised shield, move close, repeat hit them behind the shield with hammer to the helmet always knock them down then either smash them with shield or hammer repeatly, no need to aim, just keep smash them until they stop moving, always get the job done.
Spear good at first but then they get up close, all I can do is swing around like a pole, it is really hard to stab them with a tip of spear when your both shields push against each other.
Imo, I love spike shield. block then bash always either knock them down or kill them with spike.
Context is obviously the most important thing when considering how good a weapon is. One thing I've been thinking is that everyone always talks about the difference between a battlefield and civilian self-defence carry, but I _very_ rarely see anyone touching on things like what guards might use or need. They aren't on an actual battlefield, but while they are in a civilian environment they aren't just civilians.
Military sidearm for worst cases they are expected to face.
Please do one of these for the Falchion. It’s my favorite medieval weapon
Thank you for addressing the effectiveness of weapons taking into consideration the scenario, it’s reach and concealment capability in which a specific weapon is to be used which might make different types of weapons effective. I read about this more than 30 years ago and is good to see that this form of reasoning is being made public and is being discussed. I really love the colosseum background from castlevania symphony of the night (my favorite game ever 😎🤙).
i would suggest a "with shield" list as some weapons would highly benefit from a shield and more than others and then some weapons that wouldnt be used with a shield ever keep their single score
also please friggin make more of these
I would definitely like to see more lists like this , you could do blunt weapons and type vs type
Expectation before I go into this... I want (in general, for pretty much general circumstances) a single-handed warhammer with a spiked flange on the back, OR a similar bearded axe, OR a saber/grossemesser. Let's see how we do after watching...
What about axes and maces? They'd score pretty high on anti-armour. Poleaxes/halberts too.
I'd love to see this with more weapons. It was fun watch.
dude i dont even collect knives but i love watching skall. something therapeutic about his vids.
I'd also like to see more weapons rated in this manner, and also the rating system refined a bit. Use two columns! "Adaptability" was clearly meant to be at least three different ratings, plus I'd like to see a "Synergy" rating to cover the phenomenon you mentioned where a weapon's true potential is only unlocked when used in concert with another.
For example, the Dagger would have a Synergy rating of 5, for being history's second-favorite off-hand and an excellent side-arm besides, while the Spear would be lucky to make a 2, as bringing out any shorter-range weapon, even the Dagger, in tandem with it would be a cumbersome and unwieldy endeavor. (My Synergy ratings of the other weapons in this video: Longsword 3, Katana 3, Tachi 2, Bat'leth 1.)
Don't forget to rate synergy with a shield.
Love it. Like the use of combinations and environments.
this is the 9th most chaotic video introduction I've ever seen.
Asking what’s better a short short or a polearm is like asking what’s better a cc pistol or a m2 machine gun
Pretty good take. I saw a similar channel claim that because it depends on context, therefor it’s “silly” to attempt to compare weapons. And I’m like WTF, that’s such a dumb take…first of all, it was on a channel that compares weapons all the time. Secondly, it was in the context of a fictional alien weapon, so obviously the question should be, is it fictional because people were too dumb to think of the idea, or because material science wasn’t advanced enough to make it possible…or because it was just a bad design, an artistic creation that looks cool and weapon-like, but would actually be inferior to alternatives? It’s not just a subjective opinion. Just because it’s possible for some people to pound nails into boards with their bare hands doesn’t mean no one can say a hammer is objectively better designed for hammering nails than a shoe.
I feel anti armor could stand to be divided. One cat for precision (attacking the weak points and avoiding the armor) and force ( penetrating or overwhelming the armor)
There is really no reason though since it just different methods to achieve the same goal. Moreover almost every weapon that's good when it comes to "force" is bad when it comes to "precision" so it isn't necessary.
8:08 Agree.
Rapier works only if we asume, that this is video game and people are made of hitboxes.
28:42 Like a rapier.
Really interested to see more of these ratings! Especially flails and polearms as I presume those are respectively the worst and best weapons. Well, apart from perhaps the bow and the greatsword?
Flails aren't the worst at all, nunchucks are arguably on the bottom end because they're both more complex and a downgrade from how it would be if it was still attached as 1 stick
you are right, in "goblin slayer"(sorry for the low example) explain that the most fitted weapon also have to answer the enviroment (cave, battlefield, one on one, self defese); also i have a question, does there exist a weapon like a dagger or blade that using capilariti can use poison (example: saya´s sword/katana from blood +)
"Honest, Officer... this is my hiking staff, not a spear... The pointy bit? That's a signaling device for emergency communications... yeah, that's it!"