This was one of my favourite video to script but incredibly boring and tedious to cut :D I actually made a few different PNGs for each tier (one for each row of cards) such that I would't need to deal with each individual card in my video editting program.
Great content, and a precious general benchmark to dive into the game or level up. As you explain the value of the cards varies a lot depending the situation, and that's where experience gives an edge that cannot be closed by just watching tierlists. But even with a lot of experience in the game there is something to catch in your videos. Thanks for your work !
Great analysis on the card ratings! Really appreciate seeing Ecological Zone in S tier - it's such an underrated card among my peers. Keep up the excellent content!
Thanks! I will try to keep it up :) Eco Zone is one of those cards that isn't easily recognizable as a top tier choice for newer players, but it's just amazing!
Thank you for the whole series, I often used your ratings as a benchmark in the past two years. I never cared much for Kelp Farming before, but I decided to play it many times, thanks to your high praise. After choosing it in the draft 10+ times, I must say, I still don't understand, why people like it so much :D In my games (wether it's base game online, or all the expansions with the physical copy) oceans never seem to go down earlier than the heat up, so I have never been able to play it before I could play trees, or the other, way cheaper plant prod. cards.
Glad you found the series helpful! As to Kelp, I think there's two factors making it so great: 1. It offers the best overall package out of the three super late game plant production cards (Kelp, Trees, Farming). It grants more prod than Farming and more immediate plants and also some MC prod in comparison to Trees. It grants only one point in comparison to Farming's two, but as a production-focussed card that's not that bad. 2. The six ocean requirement is by far the lowest and easiest to reach out of these three. When only using standard projects, maxing out the ocean track costs 162MC, maxing out temperature costs 266MC. Reaching Kelp costs 108MC, reaching Trees costs 182MC and reaching Farming 238. Kelp sits at 66.7% of the ocean track while Trees sits at 68.4% and Farming at 89.5% of the temperature track. So Kelp is much easier to reach, can come down earlier and easier than its competitors. You can easily push the oceans yourself quite easily in a way you cannot push the temperature. Also placing oceans works very well together with a ground game anyways as it enables you to oceanwalk. But yeah, if oceans come down unusually slow in your playgroup, Kelp is of course worse than otherwise, so you need to adapt.
@@marsexpert4276 Thank you for the detailed reply, maybe I'll look for ways to force the oceans a bit more, if I have kelp in hand. I'm looking forward for more rating videos, keep up the good work!
still think industrial microbes doesn't deserve to be there in F. But glad you moved cloud seeding, i get it in drafts 3rd and 4th spot so often and still end up playing it
I debated whether to talk about Microbes. In the end, not enough people had substantial problems with its placement and I think it belongs in F tier, so I didn't. It would just would have been too much to talk about every single card that sparked a bit of debate :D
Thank you for this substantive series. Not with all can I agree but I've got a lot less experience and many times you managed to convince me how good a card is. Also I think your tier system is great and quite practical. Can't wait to see all cards ranked (with some card tiers shifts due to the expansions' impact).
Thanks! Obivously everyone will have some differing opinions on some cards, but that's the beauty of TM - there is no objective way to rank each card perfectly since it always depends on playercount, experience, meta, the favourite style of play and so much more!
I kind of agree med lab can go downa tier. I like it as step 6 or 8 on the way to Builder, or late game if Scientist is in play. Other than that though.... And Heat Trappers + Robotic? If you want to make your friends that angry, just play Diplomacy. :D
Kinda wild just how many cards are D-tier and under. After enough games logged you really start to feel just how irrelevant a large portion of the deck ends up being. Makes me kinda eager to attempt a redux version with rebalanced cards someday.
@@krysto2012 at some point I want to talk about rebalanced mars. I've never played it, so I would need to check it out first. I never really got into the webapp, but I need to for that!
@@andrzejlisowski6945 yes, Tardigrades is useful if you get it down early, but there are many cards that are useful in the first few gens. It being in D tier does not mean it's unplayable. I regularly keep and play it in my games.
I'm a 630ish elo player on BGA, so take this with whatever grain of salt this indicates. All my thoughts are for 1v1. F Tier thoughts: Industrial Microbes is meh, to me. I think F tier is fine, I'd probably put it in D tier, though. D Tier thoughts: Underground City, to me, is an F-tier card or worse. It isn't really even a steel dump with the power requirement. It's odd to me that you have this in D-tier. Biomass Combustors, to me, is a C or even B tier card. It's cheap power with hate attached. In my opinion, production cards are all C-tier cards, with that in view I have two thoughts on building industries and fuel factory. One thought is they help towards builder and, if you have excess power, are fine production cards. The other thought is the power requirement makes them pretty bad. With that in mind I think D tier is fine because, to me, they vary between F tier and C tier with an average being F tier most often. Vesta, I think is a C-tier card. I'd play it early, as production, even without the Jovian bonus. It'll pay off in 6 gens, which is going to be longer than a typical game of TM, even with preludes, and titanium is more valuable than steel. It also gives some viability to Jovians. Finally, for D tier, I'd move immigration shuttles down to "why" tier. Pays off in nearly 7 gens, but, even then, the opportunity cost of playing this could be massive. It's an awful production card with no real hidden benefit. C tier thoughts: I agree with your re-assessment of Breathing Filters. IMO BfaTA is F tier for me. This card is useable in a rush strat but is difficult to play early because of that Jovian requirement. It's basically unplayable in a Jovian strat because it's too expensive for the points value. Not sure why this is in C tier, it's almost never played or playable. Capital is also F tier for me. Too expensive. Colonizer, Commercial District, Domed Crater, Electric Cat, ECF, the three bumpers, Pets, Strip Mine, Satellites, Symbi Fungus, and Miranda Resort are all D tier for me as well. They're all extremely expensive for what they do, or too situational. The bumpers are really good in a rush strategy but rarely work out. Pets in a 1v1 game are usually not good, vs good players. Strip mine is too expensive unless you have cheap power. Colonizer doesn't really sync up with a Jovian strat, no titanium usage and an early game point card that is prohibitively expensive. Physics Complex is F tier for me too. This is a bait card; I'd rather let my energy roll-over and use it for heat than use this. There are rare few games where this is any sort-of useful for me and every time it's played against me the opponent would have been better served using their energy for heat bumps. Heat trappers, to me, goes to A tier, maybe even S tier. That card is ridiculous, and you're right, occasionally a game winning card. What is A and S tier but game changing/winning cards. I'd also move Energy trapping up to B tier. I think it's the second-best production hate card in the game. Devastating when an opponent needs that energy. The only other card I'd move up is Industrial center. I'd make this B tier because it can be a nice, cheap, teleport and helps with landlord. B tier thoughts: Artificial lake, agree, maybe even lower than C tier. Convoy from Europa, also agree, maybe even lower than C tier. Medlab is probably C tier. Could even be D tier. It is a nice payoff going for builder, though. Completely disagree with Soletta. This card, to me, is D tier, close to the bottom. If this gave 8 heat that'd be different but if we look at Soletta vs. cards like GHG factory and Mohole, you see the big difference. Too much heat production is a thing. This card is prohibitively expensive without preludes that help or a corp that helps. It's not enough for a heat bump alone, which is a big deal early, and if another corp is eating that heat track it's going to hurt. I'd also move Livestock and Immigrant city down to tier C. I'm not big on cities but this is a really cheap city, so bonus to that. Livestock is usually not playable since it is usually just a few points but does have some nice payoffs. I'd also move Hired Raiders down to C tier, I think on average this card is just that, average. Finally, I'd move Business Contacts down to C. I think this card is bait, usually it's very expensive for a lot less impact than you'd be hoping for. Thoughts on A tier: I think GC, IO, and WIFE should all be C tier. Yes, they are incredible when they work, but they need a lot of pieces to work and are, on average, usually F tier cards. Artic Algae, AGT, and Mass Converter should all be S tier cards, in my opinion. AGT is the only one that I think A tier would be appropriate, the other two are almost always incredible. Finally, I strongly disagree with AMC being tier A, I'd have this as tier C. Very good if it works out early but incredibly expensive and falls off fast if it isn't usable early. Isn't game breaking like Heat Trappers either. S Tier thoughts: I think the only card I'd argue with here is TG. I'd move this to A tier. The best of the Jovian Multipliers due to the extra points. 100% agree with you for Eco-zone. This card is usually insane. Just my thoughts, I'm just ok at the game so take this with a huge grain of salt.
@@joshuamiller9793 thank you for your detailed thoughts on the ranking! And also: if you're 600ish on BGA, you're definitely above average! Some thoughts on your comments: Underground City works well enough in a lot of engine games. If you get Mass/Quantum down and have some steel prod, it's often a relatively cheap City in the late game. Immigration Shuttles is not Whyyy-tier to me. It has a few distinct situations in which it is quite playable. If you're playing one of the rich corps with a discount for Immis and you don't have a lot else going on early on, it's quite nice (Credicor, Teractor, Phobolog). And also, if you're playing 3 or 4p it can be an okay titanium dump in the late game for points. Capital is never F tier for me. The point potential is too good. Same, but enhanced reasoning as Underground City. Arctic Algae and Mass are probably the cards I thought about moving to S tier the most about. AA opens up a whole new style of play (get and SP ocean down and convert - it's almost that easy) and Mass is just ridiculous value. In the end I didn't move them, but I see why you would do that. AGT I would not touch. It's requirement is too high for me.
@@marsexpert4276 Thanks for your response. I want to expand on my points but emphasize I play 1v1 only. I'm also talking about this as if I was playing other 500-700 elo players. Underground city is probably the worst city in the game due to the power requirements. You could make a case for Lava Tube Settlement too, but IMO Underground City is the worst. Yes, if you have some of the strong power cards it isn't awful but that's hardly an endorsement. I stand by my assessment on this card. The truth is you'd play any other steel dump city most of the time over this, if you could. Immi shuttles is definitely better than why tier in a 3+ player game. In a 2-player game I hate this card and the tempo you give up to play it. I'll give an example. I'm credicor and round 1 I kept 6 cards and have the chance to play Immi Shuttles, which I do. This leaves me with 12 MC which I end my turn on. Next round my first card is AI central, while Immigration Shuttles will pay off by round 8 (7 for Credicor), I've now lost a significant amount of cash (30 in this case due to the Credicor bump) and playing AI will be much more difficult. I'd rather save my cash to see if I draw into something next round than play Immigration Shuttles. I've played Immi Shuttles 1 game in competitive TM, as a titanium dump at the end of the game for a few points. I don't find it a useful or good card. Capital I will agree, there are some scenarios where this is good and maybe should be D tier. I will say, though, typically in a competitive elo game players are all over the Ocean walks so the VP ability isn't usually very many points. Yeah, I wonder if I'd have an AGT tier if I did a tier list. Incredible if you get it down early, many times unplayable. I guess it depends on how much draw you have. I wouldn't reach for AGT. Appreciate the feedback!
Oh, no industrial microbes change or even rediscussing it? Really sad. It's not as unplayable as dust seals, security fleet and so on (most of the time).
bump for industrial microbes lol!. If you are one of the richer corps and need the energy to play a power hungry card, it's actually one of the better options.
@@marsuniversity-tm It's alright in gen 1 or two if you need power prod for a power hungry card AND want steel prod at the same time. But in contrast to other power prod cards that can be used in the mid- to late-game to fuel power hungry city cards it becomes obsolete quite fast and is atrocious for steel prod if you DON'T need power prod. I didn't want to bump it up to D tier because of that.
@@tomaszvexling yeah no I agree that its limited in when it can be played. But most of the things on F tier are like almost never played. Soil factory, Security Fleet, Power Infrastructure, Food factory. It just can't think of it in the same tier as those ones.
@@marsuniversity-tm True, industrial microbes are undoubtedly usable (and draftable) sometimes while normal F-tiers are not unless a very specific scenario occurs.
I would say need a S+ tier for AI central then the worst card and the best card can have a tier to themselves. I think AI central is best base game card at least underground detonations is for sure the worst
I think it's not that cleat cut. AI Central really is an all-in engine card. It has a requirement that you often cannot easily fulfil as a rush player and is crazy expensive. If you're playing rush vs engine, picking NRA/GIA should have priority over cutting an unusable AI, as you're already trying to end the game as fast as possbile and AI could likely be a bait for the opponent.
Heat trappers is A tier imo, you cant say its the most impactful hate card and then place it lower than sabotage equally, ice asteroid is absolutely A tier
Sure, Heat Trappers has a bigger impact when it’s played but is also more restrictive (useless if opponents get no heat prod early, typically don’t want to play in the late game due to heat losing value and the negative point) so I think the rating is fine.
As Popcornio said, Heat Trappers has a much smaller window of play as Sabotage or Asteroic Mining Consortium. Those two can be played in the late game for great effect (AMC only if you've got Jovian Multipliers) while Heat Trappers is a dedicated early game card. True, there's arguments to be made about placing Ice Asteroid in A tier, I think it's just on the edge.
Lake Mariners is ONLY A tier in 2 player games. In 3 player games all the oceans are usually placed before heat reaches 0 degrees, and then you're just paying 18+3 credits for 2 points. I consider it a low C in my 3 player games and pretty useless in even higher player counts.
But even Underground Detonations can be useful when stealing Builder or Thermalist...as you can see, at least it deserves a letter (G) :D Jokes aside, it should read ACTION: Remove this card from the game
I appreciate the effort it took to add all cards to a video in a video editor!
This was one of my favourite video to script but incredibly boring and tedious to cut :D
I actually made a few different PNGs for each tier (one for each row of cards) such that I would't need to deal with each individual card in my video editting program.
@@marsexpert4276 Fun to script and horrible to edit is pretty much my process for every video haha. Yeah those PNGs make sense.
Great content, and a precious general benchmark to dive into the game or level up. As you explain the value of the cards varies a lot depending the situation, and that's where experience gives an edge that cannot be closed by just watching tierlists. But even with a lot of experience in the game there is something to catch in your videos. Thanks for your work !
Thanks, I appreciate it and I'm glad you enjoyed the series :)
Great analysis on the card ratings!
Really appreciate seeing Ecological Zone in S tier - it's such an underrated card among my peers.
Keep up the excellent content!
Thanks! I will try to keep it up :)
Eco Zone is one of those cards that isn't easily recognizable as a top tier choice for newer players, but it's just amazing!
Thank you for the whole series, I often used your ratings as a benchmark in the past two years.
I never cared much for Kelp Farming before, but I decided to play it many times, thanks to your high praise. After choosing it in the draft 10+ times, I must say, I still don't understand, why people like it so much :D
In my games (wether it's base game online, or all the expansions with the physical copy) oceans never seem to go down earlier than the heat up, so I have never been able to play it before I could play trees, or the other, way cheaper plant prod. cards.
Glad you found the series helpful!
As to Kelp, I think there's two factors making it so great:
1. It offers the best overall package out of the three super late game plant production cards (Kelp, Trees, Farming). It grants more prod than Farming and more immediate plants and also some MC prod in comparison to Trees. It grants only one point in comparison to Farming's two, but as a production-focussed card that's not that bad.
2. The six ocean requirement is by far the lowest and easiest to reach out of these three. When only using standard projects, maxing out the ocean track costs 162MC, maxing out temperature costs 266MC. Reaching Kelp costs 108MC, reaching Trees costs 182MC and reaching Farming 238. Kelp sits at 66.7% of the ocean track while Trees sits at 68.4% and Farming at 89.5% of the temperature track. So Kelp is much easier to reach, can come down earlier and easier than its competitors. You can easily push the oceans yourself quite easily in a way you cannot push the temperature. Also placing oceans works very well together with a ground game anyways as it enables you to oceanwalk.
But yeah, if oceans come down unusually slow in your playgroup, Kelp is of course worse than otherwise, so you need to adapt.
@@marsexpert4276 Thank you for the detailed reply, maybe I'll look for ways to force the oceans a bit more, if I have kelp in hand.
I'm looking forward for more rating videos, keep up the good work!
Great series. It made me understand the game much better. Appreciated every episode!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the series :)
Love this series. It has really helped clarify my thinking on a lot of cards. Thanks so much.
still think industrial microbes doesn't deserve to be there in F. But glad you moved cloud seeding, i get it in drafts 3rd and 4th spot so often and still end up playing it
I debated whether to talk about Microbes. In the end, not enough people had substantial problems with its placement and I think it belongs in F tier, so I didn't. It would just would have been too much to talk about every single card that sparked a bit of debate :D
@@marsexpert4276 Lol yeah i no i get it. I just play it way more often than everything else in F Tier
Its also a great combo for Electro catapult
Thank you for this substantive series. Not with all can I agree but I've got a lot less experience and many times you managed to convince me how good a card is. Also I think your tier system is great and quite practical. Can't wait to see all cards ranked (with some card tiers shifts due to the expansions' impact).
Thanks! Obivously everyone will have some differing opinions on some cards, but that's the beauty of TM - there is no objective way to rank each card perfectly since it always depends on playercount, experience, meta, the favourite style of play and so much more!
Loved the series. Recommend to everyone I play games with! See you around
I kind of agree med lab can go downa tier. I like it as step 6 or 8 on the way to Builder, or late game if Scientist is in play. Other than that though....
And Heat Trappers + Robotic? If you want to make your friends that angry, just play Diplomacy. :D
Heat Trappers should lose its building tag to make it harder to play and prevent people from copying it with Robotic :D
Kinda wild just how many cards are D-tier and under. After enough games logged you really start to feel just how irrelevant a large portion of the deck ends up being.
Makes me kinda eager to attempt a redux version with rebalanced cards someday.
@@krysto2012 at some point I want to talk about rebalanced mars. I've never played it, so I would need to check it out first. I never really got into the webapp, but I need to for that!
Tardigrades is better than you think, I know it's slow and opportunity cost is high, but you gain precious stall action, and 2 points for 7mc.
@@andrzejlisowski6945 yes, Tardigrades is useful if you get it down early, but there are many cards that are useful in the first few gens. It being in D tier does not mean it's unplayable. I regularly keep and play it in my games.
I'm a 630ish elo player on BGA, so take this with whatever grain of salt this indicates. All my thoughts are for 1v1.
F Tier thoughts:
Industrial Microbes is meh, to me. I think F tier is fine, I'd probably put it in D tier, though.
D Tier thoughts:
Underground City, to me, is an F-tier card or worse. It isn't really even a steel dump with the power requirement. It's odd to me that you have this in D-tier.
Biomass Combustors, to me, is a C or even B tier card. It's cheap power with hate attached.
In my opinion, production cards are all C-tier cards, with that in view I have two thoughts on building industries and fuel factory. One thought is they help towards builder and, if you have excess power, are fine production cards. The other thought is the power requirement makes them pretty bad. With that in mind I think D tier is fine because, to me, they vary between F tier and C tier with an average being F tier most often.
Vesta, I think is a C-tier card. I'd play it early, as production, even without the Jovian bonus. It'll pay off in 6 gens, which is going to be longer than a typical game of TM, even with preludes, and titanium is more valuable than steel. It also gives some viability to Jovians.
Finally, for D tier, I'd move immigration shuttles down to "why" tier. Pays off in nearly 7 gens, but, even then, the opportunity cost of playing this could be massive. It's an awful production card with no real hidden benefit.
C tier thoughts:
I agree with your re-assessment of Breathing Filters.
IMO BfaTA is F tier for me. This card is useable in a rush strat but is difficult to play early because of that Jovian requirement. It's basically unplayable in a Jovian strat because it's too expensive for the points value. Not sure why this is in C tier, it's almost never played or playable.
Capital is also F tier for me. Too expensive.
Colonizer, Commercial District, Domed Crater, Electric Cat, ECF, the three bumpers, Pets, Strip Mine, Satellites, Symbi Fungus, and Miranda Resort are all D tier for me as well. They're all extremely expensive for what they do, or too situational. The bumpers are really good in a rush strategy but rarely work out. Pets in a 1v1 game are usually not good, vs good players. Strip mine is too expensive unless you have cheap power. Colonizer doesn't really sync up with a Jovian strat, no titanium usage and an early game point card that is prohibitively expensive.
Physics Complex is F tier for me too. This is a bait card; I'd rather let my energy roll-over and use it for heat than use this. There are rare few games where this is any sort-of useful for me and every time it's played against me the opponent would have been better served using their energy for heat bumps.
Heat trappers, to me, goes to A tier, maybe even S tier. That card is ridiculous, and you're right, occasionally a game winning card. What is A and S tier but game changing/winning cards.
I'd also move Energy trapping up to B tier. I think it's the second-best production hate card in the game. Devastating when an opponent needs that energy.
The only other card I'd move up is Industrial center. I'd make this B tier because it can be a nice, cheap, teleport and helps with landlord.
B tier thoughts:
Artificial lake, agree, maybe even lower than C tier.
Convoy from Europa, also agree, maybe even lower than C tier.
Medlab is probably C tier. Could even be D tier. It is a nice payoff going for builder, though.
Completely disagree with Soletta. This card, to me, is D tier, close to the bottom. If this gave 8 heat that'd be different but if we look at Soletta vs. cards like GHG factory and Mohole, you see the big difference. Too much heat production is a thing. This card is prohibitively expensive without preludes that help or a corp that helps. It's not enough for a heat bump alone, which is a big deal early, and if another corp is eating that heat track it's going to hurt.
I'd also move Livestock and Immigrant city down to tier C. I'm not big on cities but this is a really cheap city, so bonus to that. Livestock is usually not playable since it is usually just a few points but does have some nice payoffs.
I'd also move Hired Raiders down to C tier, I think on average this card is just that, average.
Finally, I'd move Business Contacts down to C. I think this card is bait, usually it's very expensive for a lot less impact than you'd be hoping for.
Thoughts on A tier:
I think GC, IO, and WIFE should all be C tier. Yes, they are incredible when they work, but they need a lot of pieces to work and are, on average, usually F tier cards.
Artic Algae, AGT, and Mass Converter should all be S tier cards, in my opinion. AGT is the only one that I think A tier would be appropriate, the other two are almost always incredible.
Finally, I strongly disagree with AMC being tier A, I'd have this as tier C. Very good if it works out early but incredibly expensive and falls off fast if it isn't usable early. Isn't game breaking like Heat Trappers either.
S Tier thoughts:
I think the only card I'd argue with here is TG. I'd move this to A tier. The best of the Jovian Multipliers due to the extra points.
100% agree with you for Eco-zone. This card is usually insane.
Just my thoughts, I'm just ok at the game so take this with a huge grain of salt.
@@joshuamiller9793 thank you for your detailed thoughts on the ranking! And also: if you're 600ish on BGA, you're definitely above average!
Some thoughts on your comments: Underground City works well enough in a lot of engine games. If you get Mass/Quantum down and have some steel prod, it's often a relatively cheap City in the late game.
Immigration Shuttles is not Whyyy-tier to me. It has a few distinct situations in which it is quite playable. If you're playing one of the rich corps with a discount for Immis and you don't have a lot else going on early on, it's quite nice (Credicor, Teractor, Phobolog). And also, if you're playing 3 or 4p it can be an okay titanium dump in the late game for points.
Capital is never F tier for me. The point potential is too good. Same, but enhanced reasoning as Underground City.
Arctic Algae and Mass are probably the cards I thought about moving to S tier the most about. AA opens up a whole new style of play (get and SP ocean down and convert - it's almost that easy) and Mass is just ridiculous value. In the end I didn't move them, but I see why you would do that. AGT I would not touch. It's requirement is too high for me.
@@marsexpert4276 Thanks for your response. I want to expand on my points but emphasize I play 1v1 only. I'm also talking about this as if I was playing other 500-700 elo players.
Underground city is probably the worst city in the game due to the power requirements. You could make a case for Lava Tube Settlement too, but IMO Underground City is the worst. Yes, if you have some of the strong power cards it isn't awful but that's hardly an endorsement. I stand by my assessment on this card. The truth is you'd play any other steel dump city most of the time over this, if you could.
Immi shuttles is definitely better than why tier in a 3+ player game. In a 2-player game I hate this card and the tempo you give up to play it. I'll give an example. I'm credicor and round 1 I kept 6 cards and have the chance to play Immi Shuttles, which I do. This leaves me with 12 MC which I end my turn on. Next round my first card is AI central, while Immigration Shuttles will pay off by round 8 (7 for Credicor), I've now lost a significant amount of cash (30 in this case due to the Credicor bump) and playing AI will be much more difficult. I'd rather save my cash to see if I draw into something next round than play Immigration Shuttles.
I've played Immi Shuttles 1 game in competitive TM, as a titanium dump at the end of the game for a few points. I don't find it a useful or good card.
Capital I will agree, there are some scenarios where this is good and maybe should be D tier. I will say, though, typically in a competitive elo game players are all over the Ocean walks so the VP ability isn't usually very many points.
Yeah, I wonder if I'd have an AGT tier if I did a tier list. Incredible if you get it down early, many times unplayable. I guess it depends on how much draw you have. I wouldn't reach for AGT.
Appreciate the feedback!
Oh, no industrial microbes change or even rediscussing it? Really sad. It's not as unplayable as dust seals, security fleet and so on (most of the time).
bump for industrial microbes lol!. If you are one of the richer corps and need the energy to play a power hungry card, it's actually one of the better options.
@@marsuniversity-tm It's alright in gen 1 or two if you need power prod for a power hungry card AND want steel prod at the same time. But in contrast to other power prod cards that can be used in the mid- to late-game to fuel power hungry city cards it becomes obsolete quite fast and is atrocious for steel prod if you DON'T need power prod. I didn't want to bump it up to D tier because of that.
@@marsexpert4276 Hmm... ok. If it's really that unplayable in the next gens... But please reconcider it after Colonies.
@@tomaszvexling yeah no I agree that its limited in when it can be played. But most of the things on F tier are like almost never played. Soil factory, Security Fleet, Power Infrastructure, Food factory. It just can't think of it in the same tier as those ones.
@@marsuniversity-tm True, industrial microbes are undoubtedly usable (and draftable) sometimes while normal F-tiers are not unless a very specific scenario occurs.
I would say need a S+ tier for AI central then the worst card and the best card can have a tier to themselves. I think AI central is best base game card at least underground detonations is for sure the worst
I think it's not that cleat cut. AI Central really is an all-in engine card. It has a requirement that you often cannot easily fulfil as a rush player and is crazy expensive. If you're playing rush vs engine, picking NRA/GIA should have priority over cutting an unusable AI, as you're already trying to end the game as fast as possbile and AI could likely be a bait for the opponent.
Heat trappers is A tier imo, you cant say its the most impactful hate card and then place it lower than sabotage
equally, ice asteroid is absolutely A tier
Sure, Heat Trappers has a bigger impact when it’s played but is also more restrictive (useless if opponents get no heat prod early, typically don’t want to play in the late game due to heat losing value and the negative point) so I think the rating is fine.
As Popcornio said, Heat Trappers has a much smaller window of play as Sabotage or Asteroic Mining Consortium. Those two can be played in the late game for great effect (AMC only if you've got Jovian Multipliers) while Heat Trappers is a dedicated early game card.
True, there's arguments to be made about placing Ice Asteroid in A tier, I think it's just on the edge.
Lake Mariners is ONLY A tier in 2 player games. In 3 player games all the oceans are usually placed before heat reaches 0 degrees, and then you're just paying 18+3 credits for 2 points. I consider it a low C in my 3 player games and pretty useless in even higher player counts.
@@jerkasmo true, in higher playercounts, oceans can go down much faster, making Marineris quite useless. Maybe I'm a bit biased by 2 p
But even Underground Detonations can be useful when stealing Builder or Thermalist...as you can see, at least it deserves a letter (G) :D Jokes aside, it should read ACTION: Remove this card from the game
Hahahaha, I used it for that at least a few times. If you draw it for free, have some steel and desperately need a tag, sure.