@@Drmcclung it used to be my online gaming name, but one of the games I would play would say "You've been killed by MisterFister" and I was ending up in like the top 3 on my team and so whoever I kept killing went Karen and reported my name 😂
I want to make mention that the .380 hollow cavity was not full of Clear Ballistics. When the bullet fell out the side it got full of snow and melted. It was just water.
Thanks, these are some of my favorite episodes, Practical testing with practical guns that most likely people will be carrying. And not afraid to do them out in adverse real world conditions. And yes, all while out standing in your field 😂
Gun Sam: Shoots Dirty Hairy Full house 44?Magnums thru full size, “ that does not feel bad at all! “ Gun Sam: This little 9mm & 380 hurts my hand… I realize these micro guns have a purpose but shooting is not the purpose
It's very true. I filmed this yesterday, my hand has hurt all day. The .44 Mag is like taking a full size baseball bat with a nice wrapped grip and hitting a tree a few times. The pocket 9mm here is like taking a mini training baseball bat, hitting the tree much less hard - but that training bat has a handle made from a metal yard stick.
Michigan born and bred myself. Went to WMU History and ROTC, 25 years , 32 countries and the best SF NCOs to train me to shoot, in FL now. LOVE your videos
I feel very comfortable with the .380 and 38 spl as pocket carry options. 158 gr LRN is my preferred option for the .38 and 95 gr FMJ for the .380. Awesome seeing you testing, Sam!
@@vlogfriendsutopia I have and I prefer plain ol LRN. 38 SPL like 45 Auto can be challenging to reach expansion threshold. As this video shows, when these rounds tumble, you can make the argument that the damage is on par or great than hollow points.
@@mattspriggs5945 Well, Buffalo Bore has a great +P load that I've never seen fail to expand, and when it does, it expands greater than 65 caliber, usually up to 0.71 inches. Definitely worth a look, and Sam here has tested it from a snubby even. Even the standard pressure does really well. Nice part about the SWC is that it still retains those sharp shoulders that cause more damage than LRN, even without expansion.
Thank you Sam for your dedication to this craft. Great source of information, thoughtful, great critical thinking skills. Sort of provides a window into munition companies and if they have truly built something functional or just to fill a caliber slot. Hope you're feeling better. Also interesting to see that creek spot from a different angle. Cool stuff.
Thanks. The river loops around in a U pattern from there all around where I shoot. I used to shoot into it as a kid. My illness symptoms are pretty much gone except I have some issues with breathing and strength. I still have a bacterial infection and I started a 3rd round of antibiotics.
@@GunSam uggg. When you come out of that, please buy some quality probiotics and take those for at least a month. Antibiotics decimate the gastric intestinal system healthy biome. Perhaps you know that, but just providing a PSA.
Hey Sam! Good to see you out & about! On the topic of pocket guns: In case you don't already know, S&W is coming out with a new Lipsey's line of j-frames, called Ultimate Carry. They feature an improved trigger, improved sights that are regulated to lighter, more modern loads with a front night sight, a monolithic frame & VZ grips. They are being offered in .38 spl & .32 h&r ( a 642 or a 442 version for each).
Another great and informative video. Your data and process methods are wonderful. Relatives in muskegon, fremont, Kalamazoo say they have quite a bit of snow lately.
Thank you. I would imagine Muskegon feels it quite a bit. I know people in Cadillac area get it worse most years. There's like a 10 mile tall 'snow belt' that they live in. If everyone get's 8" of snow, they get double that. Some weird lake effect phenomenon.
Sam, first off, I greatly appreciate the ammo demos, as 38 Special is usually the same price for HP as FMJ. So it’s a toss if we buy ammo at the store if it’s “range” or “keep”. And you always clarify it for me. This brand (for example) would be “range”
Thaks again for testing in adverse conditions, Sam. Glad you're back. You men6feeding issues with the .380. i put a box if these through a few of my .380s. i had consistent feeding issues with Ruger LCP max and Security .380. almost every round. The same guns have problems with fiocchi fmj loads also. No probs in Glocks though. Even if they cycled well, though, I believe there's better choices on the market.
Interesting comparison! Once again we see a big difference between plain gel and the denim & MDF barriers. I’m almost tempted to pull my copy of Cooper on Handguns off the shelf and look up his recommendation for .38 Special. It was a handload (of Red Dot I believe) that jolted a 160gr. cast SWC to 1000 in a Model 60 (SAAMI would blanche and flee in fear). Old school approach was big bullets with hard cast full caliber cutting shoulders. Even with today’s bullets, it’s a stretch to expect great expansion under less than ideal conditions. Great to see you out and about, Sam!👍
I think now days it's hard to beat the Critical Defense 100 gr gr+P. It has a little bit of everything good. The Hydrashok Deep is also another one that impressed me a bit. If we went back 30-40 years I would have no doubt that some form of the FBI load would still be recommended as the best, like the 158 gr+P SWCHP and also if I am remembering the info right there was a Nyclad? SWCHP that was something like 125 gr? There was a lot of trust in ammo like that back then as the consensus was that it worked.
Yep, I remember Nyclad. It appeared under more than one name (Federal and S&W come to mind but it has been years). And today, every other handloader powder coats his cast bullets.😄@@GunSam
I have some of the 38 special 125gr nyclad. Those aren't swc just a hollow point, but it is fairly large. Greetings from West Michigan. Hope you are feeling better real soon. Stay safe.@@GunSam
Another good video Sam.. dedicated to make quality videos, dealing with real world conditions and adapting to the conditions mother nature provided 👍👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲👍👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 thank you for your time
Was hoping for better. People check out my 1st Ballistics Test .38+p Hydrashok Deep vs Paul Harrell Green & White Box UMC in throwback OG Gun Sam Protocol! Then compare to Official Organic Gel Data I gave...Gun Sam's been making Bologna & Water Jugs, & Clear Ballistics through MDF ACTUALLY MATTER for a LONG TIME! I've tested 9mm & a lot of .357 already
on the 380 it just seems that the "pocket" pistol short barrels, as I carry are not going to get much expansion with recommended penetration, no matter the mfg. BUT I figure that since I can handle the recoil, quickly enough back on target, and can shoot a tight group at 15 yds that the ball round every other in the mag with the hollow points for defense, again no matter the mfg, should give me the self-defense I need in 90 percent of what I would need it for. thanks for sharing all your testing on the 380, it always gives me more confidence that IF I am accurate to the body with at least a 3 or 4-shot burst, I should be good.
But there are very good performing JHP ammo in those calibers. Critical Defense is one that does well, Hydrashok Deep in .38 Special does well, many others will expand and penetrate perfect like other calibers.
Glad you are well enough to get out and do a video! Hope your overall health condition takes a big and permanent turn for the better! Thanks for this video; I really enjoyed it!! Oh, and I hope your Mom is doing okay and hope she gets a lot of compensation$$!!!
Glad you are back shooting again! I had high hopes seeing that .380 expand, but it fizzled out like the rest through the MDF. I would not consider any of these as a carry load as there are other better options available.
I wonder if the deformity (but not expansion) of the hollow point bullets is similar to "spoon tipped" ammunition where a small flat surface is put on the tip of a FMJ/LRN bullet to make it tumble causing a big wound tract. It would be interesting to make some spoon tip ammo in 38 sp LRN/fmj, 32 LRN/FMJ, etc and test those compared to unmodified bullet shapes. Glad to see your are back in good health. Great work as always.
By the way, when I compare as we say .380 ACP in the same video as "9mm" (9x19mm) I like to differentiate the labeling on screen as I know Europe likes to call .380 ACP "9mm"
Ja sollte eigentlich auf der ganzen Welt die gleiche Bezeichnung haben. Aber wenn man sich bisschen auskennt ist es kein Problem. Man weiß welches Kaliber gemeint ist. @@Gieszkanne
@@Gieszkanne I didn't use the term 9x17 as almost no one in the US uses that term for .380 ACP, but I know '9mm' aka '9mm Kurz' is a common name other places, and just figured labeling one the 9x19mm would be less confusing as some people not in the US might think "9mm" was something other than the 9x19mm. That's all I was doing.
Here is my Meat & Simulate Bone Target test with a Micro9 HST vs Punch vs WWB to OG Gun Sam Protocol ua-cam.com/video/aqu5yRW0NQE/v-deo.html As Paul Harrell & Gun Sam has shown a lot of 9mm does very well from Full Size barrels. Shorter than 3.5" is when you must get very specific about 9mm ammo selection IMO.
I'd be interested in seeing you do a test with the Norma Safeguard 38 Special 158 grain, it's rated velocity is 968 fps or something like that, with 300+ fpe, I'd be curious to see how that round performs in a snub nose, also keep in mind that it's standard pressure.
I know I know…. 30 super carry isn’t a go to caliber for a ton of people, but have you ever thought of comparing it? I think your testing is so consistent that it would make a great demonstration.
In the USA, people mostly rent land from government bureaucracies. Unless of course you're in the right crowd working with China, then you can have millions of acres and most bureaucracies turn a blind eye.
@@exothermal.sprocket And the rules they make for each land, is whatever they want it to be. Where I am filming, the owner who is my parents have mineral rights, but there ain't no minerals. Where my house is, is 6 miles from this land and the little crossroads village I live at it common called "Oil City" because there's massive amounts of oil around here, lots of oil rigs. But guess what "oh you don't own the mineral rights, sorry"
@@GunSam I know it. Every year that passes I see more and more disregard for the Constitution which is supposed to be the supreme law of the country. It is supposed to be the supreme authority for what constitutes civil life as an American. Then I look around at the practical point-by-point realities of what life actually looks like and it's nothing like the Constitution says it should be. I pretty much know how it got to this stage, but waking up the common person is difficult. People have been gaslit into believing these point by point realities are the best there is, that America is the best there is. I'm middle aged and I don't think I've lived a single year of my entire life under the original Constitutional intent of the founding fathers. _But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security._
I was hoping that you would test these new rounds! I too had a blood-thirsty, slide-bitey small .380, a superb Interarms Walther PPk. I carefully put on a rubber slip-on grip sleeve with one finger ridge that gave more leverage to the fingers to reduce muzzle rise and add control. No more slide bite! By the way, real shooters know that Luck is a skill..............................................elsullo
I just acquired a new LCP ll 380 during the holidays and to verify at the bench it shoots both low and left 3-5 inches depending on ammo... Yeah... needless to say not very happy with it... I suppose a trip back to the factory is in order... I'm tired of all the junk these companies put on the shelf... Sorry for the rant, thanks n' God bless
Sam, have you tested Federal Punch 38 +P..yet..? And have you tested Fed. Syntech..Segmented..?? Of all the yt Gun dudes, you are my go-to guy..Santa was real nice to me last month, cz scorpion 3 Plus...16" bbl...How did Santa know? Sam, keep on doing what your doing, stay warm & stay safe...
Worst pistol I ever had was a Db9. Would not keep the mag in when firing. Db replaced so many parts grips they had to send it as a new firearm and still wasn’t fixed. Finally sent me a new one which I sold to lgs for 1/2 price
When you first got your model 69 did the stock s&w rubber grip, give you a blister at the base of your thumb? And is that why you changed it to the hogue rubber grip instead? My s&w model 629 with a 6 inch barrel has the stock s&w rubber grips on it and they give me a blister at the base of my thumb, So I am going to try the hogue rubber grips.
Wow, how the heck did that .380 go 14" with that much expansion? Is that typical for clear gel? Because in my knox that would have definately been less than 12". I didn't know you were right above me in Michigan man (or I forgot). Should consider meeting up one day, maybe I can bring you a caliber you don't have for testing like the .30SC I just got or something else.
I rarely travel lol. Health issues. Usually .380 ACP that expands in clear gel, at least for me is closer to 9" to 12" of penetration when there is expansion. I can't really explain why it went so far.
@@GunSam I would come to you brother, but I understand if you want to keep your compound secret 👍 I hope your situation improves- I have been dealing with some issues as well and am tired of all the tests over the past 12 months trying to figure out what's wrong. Just had an MRI today matter of fact...
They seem cool. I personally don't plan to get one as I am just a regular guy, no inside connections or flowing money to pick one up, also because my .327 Federal LCR does everything that does but comes out of the box with a better trigger than the J-Frame could ever have even with trigger jobs. I have also noticed that the LCR hits perfect point of aim as it is. Sights aren't as good as the Lipsey's but I can live with that.
@@GunSam Yes I remember that you also carry 327 mag what is not possible with these. But they said that they also changed the trigger mechanics on the Lipsey not just lighter springs. But its a beautiful revolver with nice upgrades. I also was supprised about the MSRP of 750$ So street price is maybe 700-650$ ? From all the custom work I thought it would be more expensive.
@@Gieszkanne I would like to have one if I could afford it. I generally use whatever I earn on UA-cam ads for ammo, ballistic gel, and then after that there's not much left. Being I have a disability and live off disability payments and have 3 kids, it becomes difficult to spend several hundred on one thing. I find ways to do it from times to time, but it's not very often.
The Fiocchi Defense Dynamic will not feed in my Ruger 380 Security! They do not chamber all the way. No problems with any other ammo. They do feed in my Ruger LCPII Max. Weird?
That is weird. we emptied a 50rd box through my wife's 380 security with no FTF or FTEs. We were using both the 10 and 15 round mags. The second time through both mags we fired moderately fast to try and cause a FTF. We were using the Fiocchi APHP 90GR 975fps that came in the old style Fiocchi boxes. Also my daughter was with us and she put 4 full mags of the same ammo through her SIG 238 with no problem
Purely from an armchair what-if perspective I'm very curious to know what that 90 grain .380 bullet would do in same 9x19 case, just swapping the 124 for the 90 grain bullet and no other change. I have seen some brands use exactly the same projectile for both of their .380 and 9mm offerings (I think it was Ammo Incorporated? cheapy hollow points, I could not tell the difference between projectiles). On another note I'm surprised by the .38 performance too, the 9's usually do a little better in the "fancy round" variety. Good vid, stay warm brother!
The 9mm Hornady Critical Defense Lite uses a 90 gr if I recall right. You would think that full power 90 gr 9mm would be a thing as you could very easily exceed over 500 ft lbs energy with the right powder and pressure. My only guess is that such a light bullet would be very limited in penetration so no major brand wants to mess with it. If you had 90 gr doing 1,500-1,600 FPS like I think it could, the bullets would just explode and penetrate 5" or something. I doubt major companies would put their name on that. If I recall, Hornady only did it because they lowered the power in addition to lowering the bullet weight so it will penetrate okay.
@@GunSam interesting. You're probably right, I'd assume too it would just become frangible on impact, I didn't think about that.. The 90 grain Fiocchi projectiles being optimized for .380 load standards. Would still be interesting to see how explody the 90 grain projectile is in gel blocks when loaded to 9x19 standards!
@@DanTheWolfman the brno is pushing a 7.5mm 94 grain 2,000fps out of a necked dow 10mm case so it doesn't seem that far fetched to me that this particular 90 grain .380 swapped into the 9mm would be much of an issue
That is weird. I have talked with most people who can't get smaller pocket pistols to run with HP ammo. Maybe you have small hands? It's impossible to grip for me so maybe it bucks all over.
@@GunSam no sir, I actually have large hands. Try shooting the snot out of it and see if it loosens up. I love blasting my mouse guns, I can actually hit targets at over 3 feet with my NAA mini mag 😂😂
Was too warm was the issue. Was like 10-20 degrees for weeks. Now at like 37 or so and rain, the snow dropped from 12" to about 8" and sopping wet. My ATV at max speed that does maybe 40 MPH normally was crawling at full throttle slower than I could walk for 150 yards and would not scoop out the snow or compress it, just threw it back in the tracks. Supposed to rain tomorrow all day again so we shall see how that all goes. If it were still super cold this wouldn't be an issue.
To be honest I am not familiar with that. I know Keltec and I know their little .32 auto that the Ruger LCP ripped off and some of their other pistols like the big .22 Mag semi auto. If the P22 is their new .22 LR, I was going to buy that one (I am not good with names) but I opted for the Taurus .22 pistol. I forgot the name lol
Can you please do a complete thorough comparison competition of the .38 super vs the .40 s&w please?! Also would love to see the 9mm vs the .30 super carry
The pocket pistols are smaller than the revolver. Even a 9mm Kahr P9 Cover (grip cut to use PM9 magazines) is not as big, and it has a 3.5" barrel with probably superior ballistics.
I've always thought of a 2" snub as a pocket gun, mainly as I've carried a 2" revolver in my front pocket for nearly 10 years. I've found that semi autos are smaller, but for me they are too small and even tip over in the pocket, muzzle facing backwards usually. And yes I use pocket holsters. I prefer the revolver cylinder pushing the holster outward in the pocket and it printing what looks like a fat wallet, over a thin auto evenly printing the shape of a pistol. That's just me
@@GunSam I pocket-carried a S&W 442 for six years. But a bit over 20 years ago I switched to a Kahr P9 Covert (like the MP9, but with a 0.5" longer slide). The pocket holster kept it upright for me and gave it a rectangular shape in the pocket -- and not to thick, either, at just 0.9" wide. For some guns the grip might reveal the shape, but as the grip was also only 0.9" wide it didn't really print.
I work with a guy who tried to rob someone and was shot 3 times in the chest with a 380 jumped out a 2 story window ran to hospital and has no long term effects from incident, I'm not carrying 380 lol
The argument about 38 vs 9, where the 38 is as good or better with the right bullet, etc. doesn’t take into account you can do the same with the 9 and get the same advantage. +p+ extreme defense for instance, defeats soft body armor in several videos, not a 38 special doing that and penetration is very consistent as well as wound channel. I guess to me it’s like a souped up mustang outrunning a stock Camaro…
And just for clarification, I have several 38’s around the house…loaded with +p extreme defenders. I’m very impressed with them in every caliber and carry 10mm, same loading. Underwood to be exact
I tend to listen to oldtimer's stories. Have a lot of retired cops on this channel who have used .38 Special to extremely good effects. Now in modern times it's not stories, it's videos. You rarely see a video from LE where less than 5-6 hits are made with 9mm, and the suspect is still fighting. I have seen them take up to 15 rounds and still keep coming at the cops swinging with knives. I just do not trust that. You cannot, I repeat cannot make a 9mm a stopping round unless it's a super fast light for caliber one. All of them are so small hollow cavities with such rounded noses that what happens, is they penetrate a good bit, often 5-6" in gel BEFORE their hollow point starts expanding. With .38 Special and a good load, that's not the case. JHP or SJHP they expand immediately and energy dump closer to the surface, and for whatever reason stop threats better. Unless you have a 115 gr 9mm+P+ that will energy dump like that from sheer impact regardless of bullet design, you are always dealing with the same thing, penetrate like an FMJ then slowly expand, dumping very little energy. You can keep thinking what you think and I will keep thinking what I think. But there's a reason why all the videos with 9mm take 10 rounds to stop a threat and all the videos with .40 S&W take two. It's because the .40 S&W has the same nose attributes of a typical flat nose revolver round, so it energy dumps fast.
@@GunSamold timers weren’t dealing with the effects of the drugs being abused today, and most of the old timers I knew were very happy to dump the 38. The argument of the same diameter bullet going much slower doesn’t hold much water.
To me this is unacceptable performance period. They obviously know there's a barrel length threshold where their bullet is going to fail to expand. The consumer has no way of knowing unless they watch videos like yours. This particular ammo has failed other gel tests I've seen. Most people are carrying guns with short barrels or barrels right on that expansion/no expansion threshold so it's a crapshoot whether their "defensive" ammo is going perform as advertised or not.
This video is proof you are out standing in your field !!!
Thank you. I could have been sitting, and did a little squatting but the standing was the best way to do most of it.
Haha "out standing' in your field, that's an outstanding pun! I see what you did there 😂
Dude 😂😂
@@misterfister7262 misterfister? really? Ok these handles are getting creative 😂
@@Drmcclung it used to be my online gaming name, but one of the games I would play would say "You've been killed by MisterFister" and I was ending up in like the top 3 on my team and so whoever I kept killing went Karen and reported my name 😂
I want to make mention that the .380 hollow cavity was not full of Clear Ballistics. When the bullet fell out the side it got full of snow and melted. It was just water.
Thanks, these are some of my favorite episodes, Practical testing with practical guns that most likely people will be carrying. And not afraid to do them out in adverse real world conditions. And yes, all while out standing in your field 😂
If anyone wonder, the 3.68" Shield EZ averaged 977 FPS with this ammo.
Gun Sam: Shoots Dirty Hairy Full house 44?Magnums thru full size, “ that does not feel bad at all! “
Gun Sam: This little 9mm & 380 hurts my hand…
I realize these micro guns have a purpose but shooting is not the purpose
It's very true. I filmed this yesterday, my hand has hurt all day. The .44 Mag is like taking a full size baseball bat with a nice wrapped grip and hitting a tree a few times. The pocket 9mm here is like taking a mini training baseball bat, hitting the tree much less hard - but that training bat has a handle made from a metal yard stick.
@@GunSam Correction: taking an aluminum training baseball bat and smacking a steel flag pole a few times.
This is quality testing that benefits all of us. Hit that LIKE BUTTON.
Michigan born and bred myself. Went to WMU History and ROTC, 25 years , 32 countries and the best SF NCOs to train me to shoot, in FL now. LOVE your videos
My daughter is college shopping. Turns 18 tomorrow. Hope she picks the right one.
I feel very comfortable with the .380 and 38 spl as pocket carry options. 158 gr LRN is my preferred option for the .38 and 95 gr FMJ for the .380. Awesome seeing you testing, Sam!
What decade are you living in?
@@Tom-cp6yj based on current events, I'm not sure, but last I checked, the year is 2024.
Ever thought of a good old LSWCHP?
@@vlogfriendsutopia I have and I prefer plain ol LRN.
38 SPL like 45 Auto can be challenging to reach expansion threshold. As this video shows, when these rounds tumble, you can make the argument that the damage is on par or great than hollow points.
@@mattspriggs5945 Well, Buffalo Bore has a great +P load that I've never seen fail to expand, and when it does, it expands greater than 65 caliber, usually up to 0.71 inches. Definitely worth a look, and Sam here has tested it from a snubby even. Even the standard pressure does really well. Nice part about the SWC is that it still retains those sharp shoulders that cause more damage than LRN, even without expansion.
Thank you Sam for your dedication to this craft. Great source of information, thoughtful, great critical thinking skills. Sort of provides a window into munition companies and if they have truly built something functional or just to fill a caliber slot.
Hope you're feeling better. Also interesting to see that creek spot from a different angle. Cool stuff.
Thanks. The river loops around in a U pattern from there all around where I shoot. I used to shoot into it as a kid. My illness symptoms are pretty much gone except I have some issues with breathing and strength. I still have a bacterial infection and I started a 3rd round of antibiotics.
@@GunSam uggg.
When you come out of that, please buy some quality probiotics and take those for at least a month. Antibiotics decimate the gastric intestinal system healthy biome. Perhaps you know that, but just providing a PSA.
@@GunSam
Third round? Do they even know what it is?
Glad you're a bit better.
Finally a test with a 380 like what is actually carried. Thank you!
I enjoy these ballistic tests in these small pocket guns that many people actually carry myself included...
We have had real bad ice and snow and dangerous cold , snow just complicates everything but it makes good Coyote weather.
Hey Sam! Good to see you out & about! On the topic of pocket guns: In case you don't already know, S&W is coming out with a new Lipsey's line of j-frames, called Ultimate Carry. They feature an improved trigger, improved sights that are regulated to lighter, more modern loads with a front night sight, a monolithic frame & VZ grips. They are being offered in .38 spl & .32 h&r ( a 642 or a 442 version for each).
I saw that. Interesting timing as I have some Critical Defense .32 H&R I plan on testing. I never properly tested it before.
@@GunSam Cool. I might go for a .32. We'll see. Forgot to mention chamfered chambers, beveled cylinder & no lock.
Glad to see you up and about. Thanks for the testing*.
*Also glad to see the test being done with short barrels, thanks again.
Glad to see you out shooting again. Hope you're feeling better.
GS. Always a good and informative video. Thanks for the video even with all that snow. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Thank you, take care.
Another great and informative video. Your data and process methods are wonderful. Relatives in muskegon, fremont, Kalamazoo say they have quite a bit of snow lately.
Thank you. I would imagine Muskegon feels it quite a bit. I know people in Cadillac area get it worse most years. There's like a 10 mile tall 'snow belt' that they live in. If everyone get's 8" of snow, they get double that. Some weird lake effect phenomenon.
Sam, first off, I greatly appreciate the ammo demos, as 38 Special is usually the same price for HP as FMJ. So it’s a toss if we buy ammo at the store if it’s “range” or “keep”. And you always clarify it for me. This brand (for example) would be “range”
Great video sir!
Hope all is well!👍🏼
Good job in adverse conditions!
Thaks again for testing in adverse conditions, Sam. Glad you're back. You men6feeding issues with the .380. i put a box if these through a few of my .380s. i had consistent feeding issues with Ruger LCP max and Security .380. almost every round. The same guns have problems with fiocchi fmj loads also. No probs in Glocks though. Even if they cycled well, though, I believe there's better choices on the market.
Interesting comparison! Once again we see a big difference between plain gel and the denim & MDF barriers. I’m almost tempted to pull my copy of Cooper on Handguns off the shelf and look up his recommendation for .38 Special. It was a handload (of Red Dot I believe) that jolted a 160gr. cast SWC to 1000 in a Model 60 (SAAMI would blanche and flee in fear). Old school approach was big bullets with hard cast full caliber cutting shoulders. Even with today’s bullets, it’s a stretch to expect great expansion under less than ideal conditions. Great to see you out and about, Sam!👍
I think now days it's hard to beat the Critical Defense 100 gr gr+P. It has a little bit of everything good. The Hydrashok Deep is also another one that impressed me a bit. If we went back 30-40 years I would have no doubt that some form of the FBI load would still be recommended as the best, like the 158 gr+P SWCHP and also if I am remembering the info right there was a Nyclad? SWCHP that was something like 125 gr? There was a lot of trust in ammo like that back then as the consensus was that it worked.
Yep, I remember Nyclad. It appeared under more than one name (Federal and S&W come to mind but it has been years). And today, every other handloader powder coats his cast bullets.😄@@GunSam
I have some of the 38 special 125gr nyclad. Those aren't swc just a hollow point, but it is fairly large. Greetings from West Michigan. Hope you are feeling better real soon. Stay safe.@@GunSam
A video! Nice. Hope you are well. Keep on.
Thank you for the demonstration.
Your CONSISTENT TESTING METRICS
tell us a lot!
Another good video Sam.. dedicated to make quality videos, dealing with real world conditions and adapting to the conditions mother nature provided 👍👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲👍👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 thank you for your time
Was hoping for better. People check out my 1st Ballistics Test .38+p Hydrashok Deep vs Paul Harrell Green & White Box UMC in throwback OG Gun Sam Protocol! Then compare to Official Organic Gel Data I gave...Gun Sam's been making Bologna & Water Jugs, & Clear Ballistics through MDF ACTUALLY MATTER for a LONG TIME! I've tested 9mm & a lot of .357 already
Impressive video!! I like all three calibers!! but I run flat nose FMJ on .380 and .38 but I do load my 9mm with JHP like the HST!!
on the 380 it just seems that the "pocket" pistol short barrels, as I carry are not going to get much expansion with recommended penetration, no matter the mfg. BUT I figure that since I can handle the recoil, quickly enough back on target, and can shoot a tight group at 15 yds that the ball round every other in the mag with the hollow points for defense, again no matter the mfg, should give me the self-defense I need in 90 percent of what I would need it for. thanks for sharing all your testing on the 380, it always gives me more confidence that IF I am accurate to the body with at least a 3 or 4-shot burst, I should be good.
Thanks for another great ammo test.
This video reaffirms my practice of only using FMJ or solid core ammo in my 38 special and my 380acp.
But there are very good performing JHP ammo in those calibers. Critical Defense is one that does well, Hydrashok Deep in .38 Special does well, many others will expand and penetrate perfect like other calibers.
Good presentation. One brand I'll never buy for self-defense. Thanks for saving me some money. I'll stick with Hornady.
Glad you are well enough to get out and do a video!
Hope your overall health condition takes a big and permanent turn for the better!
Thanks for this video; I really enjoyed it!! Oh, and I hope your Mom is doing okay and hope she gets a lot of compensation$$!!!
Good info. Thank you Sam. 100 yard hit witha snubby is amazing!
Nice shooting and great test. Cheap ammo, but would work in a pinch.
Glad you are back shooting again! I had high hopes seeing that .380 expand, but it fizzled out like the rest through the MDF. I would not consider any of these as a carry load as there are other better options available.
Thanks again.
I wonder if the deformity (but not expansion) of the hollow point bullets is similar to "spoon tipped" ammunition where a small flat surface is put on the tip of a FMJ/LRN bullet to make it tumble causing a big wound tract. It would be interesting to make some spoon tip ammo in 38 sp LRN/fmj, 32 LRN/FMJ, etc and test those compared to unmodified bullet shapes. Glad to see your are back in good health. Great work as always.
Good test Sam, glad to see you out there again at it. Hope you are feeling better and on the way to getting back to your old self!!
Wow 70,700 +++ Subs !!!!!
Great Video again. Greetings from Germany.
Thank you
By the way, when I compare as we say .380 ACP in the same video as "9mm" (9x19mm) I like to differentiate the labeling on screen as I know Europe likes to call .380 ACP "9mm"
@@GunSam You mean 9x17 and we say 9mm kurz(short) Also greatings from Germany.
Ja sollte eigentlich auf der ganzen Welt die gleiche Bezeichnung haben. Aber wenn man sich bisschen auskennt ist es kein Problem. Man weiß welches Kaliber gemeint ist. @@Gieszkanne
@@Gieszkanne I didn't use the term 9x17 as almost no one in the US uses that term for .380 ACP, but I know '9mm' aka '9mm Kurz' is a common name other places, and just figured labeling one the 9x19mm would be less confusing as some people not in the US might think "9mm" was something other than the 9x19mm. That's all I was doing.
Sam "Modern Meat Target" Tested Fiocchi Defense Dynamics vs Federal punch in both Short & Long Barrels ua-cam.com/video/e22hwbbevgQ/v-deo.html
Here is my Meat & Simulate Bone Target test with a Micro9 HST vs Punch vs WWB to OG Gun Sam Protocol ua-cam.com/video/aqu5yRW0NQE/v-deo.html As Paul Harrell & Gun Sam has shown a lot of 9mm does very well from Full Size barrels. Shorter than 3.5" is when you must get very specific about 9mm ammo selection IMO.
Good to see you!
I'd be interested in seeing you do a test with the Norma Safeguard 38 Special 158 grain, it's rated velocity is 968 fps or something like that, with 300+ fpe, I'd be curious to see how that round performs in a snub nose, also keep in mind that it's standard pressure.
I know I know…. 30 super carry isn’t a go to caliber for a ton of people, but have you ever thought of comparing it? I think your testing is so consistent that it would make a great demonstration.
Nice To Own All That Land
In the USA, people mostly rent land from government bureaucracies. Unless of course you're in the right crowd working with China, then you can have millions of acres and most bureaucracies turn a blind eye.
@@exothermal.sprocket And the rules they make for each land, is whatever they want it to be. Where I am filming, the owner who is my parents have mineral rights, but there ain't no minerals. Where my house is, is 6 miles from this land and the little crossroads village I live at it common called "Oil City" because there's massive amounts of oil around here, lots of oil rigs. But guess what "oh you don't own the mineral rights, sorry"
@@GunSam I know it. Every year that passes I see more and more disregard for the Constitution which is supposed to be the supreme law of the country. It is supposed to be the supreme authority for what constitutes civil life as an American. Then I look around at the practical point-by-point realities of what life actually looks like and it's nothing like the Constitution says it should be.
I pretty much know how it got to this stage, but waking up the common person is difficult. People have been gaslit into believing these point by point realities are the best there is, that America is the best there is. I'm middle aged and I don't think I've lived a single year of my entire life under the original Constitutional intent of the founding fathers.
_But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security._
I was hoping that you would test these new rounds! I too had a blood-thirsty, slide-bitey small .380, a superb Interarms Walther PPk. I carefully put on a rubber slip-on grip sleeve with one finger ridge that gave more leverage to the fingers to reduce muzzle rise and add control. No more slide bite! By the way, real shooters know that Luck is a skill..............................................elsullo
I’m praying for your health Sam that God has his hand on you and that you are soon healed and healthy! Amen!
Thanks !
Do you have any 357 SIG videos coming down the pike?
Just one. I got some Hornady Custom .357 Sig VS 9mm, both in 147 gr XTP that I plan to film sometimes soon.
Go Blue go Lions!
Great job as usual!
Does a 380 fmj have approximately the same results as a hp for penetration?
Bro, you gotta get an lcp max. Mine hasn't choked on any hollow point rounds I've put through it.
I just acquired a new LCP ll 380 during the holidays and to verify at the bench it shoots both low and left 3-5 inches depending on ammo... Yeah... needless to say not very happy with it... I suppose a trip back to the factory is in order... I'm tired of all the junk these companies put on the shelf...
Sorry for the rant, thanks n' God bless
I can't help myself...I like 'em all
Sam, have you tested Federal Punch 38 +P..yet..? And have you tested Fed. Syntech..Segmented..?? Of all the yt Gun dudes, you are my go-to guy..Santa was real nice to me last month, cz scorpion 3 Plus...16" bbl...How did Santa know? Sam, keep on doing what your doing, stay warm & stay safe...
Worst pistol I ever had was a Db9. Would not keep the mag in when firing. Db replaced so many parts grips they had to send it as a new firearm and still wasn’t fixed. Finally sent me a new one which I sold to lgs for 1/2 price
When you first got your model 69 did the stock s&w rubber grip, give you a blister at the base of your thumb? And is that why you changed it to the hogue rubber grip instead? My s&w model 629 with a 6 inch barrel has the stock s&w rubber grips on it and they give me a blister at the base of my thumb, So I am going to try the hogue rubber grips.
Whereabouts in Michigan are you? We got zero snow cover, down state
I love the 38spl, but finding premium defensive ammo for it, is a bit of a chore.
Wow, how the heck did that .380 go 14" with that much expansion? Is that typical for clear gel? Because in my knox that would have definately been less than 12". I didn't know you were right above me in Michigan man (or I forgot). Should consider meeting up one day, maybe I can bring you a caliber you don't have for testing like the .30SC I just got or something else.
I rarely travel lol. Health issues. Usually .380 ACP that expands in clear gel, at least for me is closer to 9" to 12" of penetration when there is expansion. I can't really explain why it went so far.
@@GunSam I would come to you brother, but I understand if you want to keep your compound secret 👍 I hope your situation improves- I have been dealing with some issues as well and am tired of all the tests over the past 12 months trying to figure out what's wrong. Just had an MRI today matter of fact...
It would be cool to see a test on 38 special+p 158 grain TMC in Speer lawman I notice I haven't seen much on it
ua-cam.com/video/x0abi307-XY/v-deo.html I did 125 gr
So is there a .380 that gives you both penetration and expansion? Every round i have seen tested gives you one or the other, but not both.
I saw a comment from you under a gunshow 2024 video. You are also excited about the S&W Lipsey 632/432 . Will you get one?
They seem cool. I personally don't plan to get one as I am just a regular guy, no inside connections or flowing money to pick one up, also because my .327 Federal LCR does everything that does but comes out of the box with a better trigger than the J-Frame could ever have even with trigger jobs. I have also noticed that the LCR hits perfect point of aim as it is. Sights aren't as good as the Lipsey's but I can live with that.
@@GunSam Yes I remember that you also carry 327 mag what is not possible with these. But they said that they also changed the trigger mechanics on the Lipsey not just lighter springs. But its a beautiful revolver with nice upgrades. I also was supprised about the MSRP of 750$ So street price is maybe 700-650$ ? From all the custom work I thought it would be more expensive.
@@Gieszkanne I would like to have one if I could afford it. I generally use whatever I earn on UA-cam ads for ammo, ballistic gel, and then after that there's not much left. Being I have a disability and live off disability payments and have 3 kids, it becomes difficult to spend several hundred on one thing. I find ways to do it from times to time, but it's not very often.
Speaking of .327.... Taurus has a 3-inch barrel option now with their .327 model.
The Fiocchi Defense Dynamic will not feed in my Ruger 380 Security! They do not chamber all the way. No problems with any other ammo. They do feed in my Ruger LCPII Max. Weird?
That is weird. we emptied a 50rd box through my wife's 380 security with no FTF or FTEs. We were using both the 10 and 15 round mags. The second time through both mags we fired moderately fast to try and cause a FTF. We were using the Fiocchi APHP 90GR 975fps that came in the old style Fiocchi boxes. Also my daughter was with us and she put 4 full mags of the same ammo through her SIG 238 with no problem
Purely from an armchair what-if perspective I'm very curious to know what that 90 grain .380 bullet would do in same 9x19 case, just swapping the 124 for the 90 grain bullet and no other change. I have seen some brands use exactly the same projectile for both of their .380 and 9mm offerings (I think it was Ammo Incorporated? cheapy hollow points, I could not tell the difference between projectiles). On another note I'm surprised by the .38 performance too, the 9's usually do a little better in the "fancy round" variety. Good vid, stay warm brother!
The 9mm Hornady Critical Defense Lite uses a 90 gr if I recall right. You would think that full power 90 gr 9mm would be a thing as you could very easily exceed over 500 ft lbs energy with the right powder and pressure. My only guess is that such a light bullet would be very limited in penetration so no major brand wants to mess with it. If you had 90 gr doing 1,500-1,600 FPS like I think it could, the bullets would just explode and penetrate 5" or something. I doubt major companies would put their name on that. If I recall, Hornady only did it because they lowered the power in addition to lowering the bullet weight so it will penetrate okay.
@@GunSam interesting. You're probably right, I'd assume too it would just become frangible on impact, I didn't think about that.. The 90 grain Fiocchi projectiles being optimized for .380 load standards. Would still be interesting to see how explody the 90 grain projectile is in gel blocks when loaded to 9x19 standards!
It's been done, under penetrates, and an article coming out soon I've read@@Drmcclung
@@DanTheWolfman the brno is pushing a 7.5mm 94 grain 2,000fps out of a necked dow 10mm case so it doesn't seem that far fetched to me that this particular 90 grain .380 swapped into the 9mm would be much of an issue
lol don't think vs actually tested as if case dimensions, powder capacity, seating depth, PSI don't matter just lols@@Drmcclung
Weird, my lcp is insanely reliable. I run fiocchi jhp and flat nose. Never had an issue in about 400 founds. Even dirty with pocket gunk it runs.
That is weird. I have talked with most people who can't get smaller pocket pistols to run with HP ammo. Maybe you have small hands? It's impossible to grip for me so maybe it bucks all over.
@@GunSam no sir, I actually have large hands. Try shooting the snot out of it and see if it loosens up. I love blasting my mouse guns, I can actually hit targets at over 3 feet with my NAA mini mag 😂😂
Have you called FEMA to dig out your range ?
Need to dig fema out of the swamp.
👍😊 🤷♂️ it ran ok .
38 é 38 e não adianta! 💪💪
What part of Michigan?
Frozen Tundra
Was too warm was the issue. Was like 10-20 degrees for weeks. Now at like 37 or so and rain, the snow dropped from 12" to about 8" and sopping wet. My ATV at max speed that does maybe 40 MPH normally was crawling at full throttle slower than I could walk for 150 yards and would not scoop out the snow or compress it, just threw it back in the tracks. Supposed to rain tomorrow all day again so we shall see how that all goes. If it were still super cold this wouldn't be an issue.
No Keltec P22? The greatest pocket gun ever!
To be honest I am not familiar with that. I know Keltec and I know their little .32 auto that the Ruger LCP ripped off and some of their other pistols like the big .22 Mag semi auto. If the P22 is their new .22 LR, I was going to buy that one (I am not good with names) but I opted for the Taurus .22 pistol. I forgot the name lol
@@GunSam yes P 32 typo
Love it
S& B ball ammo best penetration
GO 38 special!!
👍
Can you please do a complete thorough comparison competition of the .38 super vs the .40 s&w please?!
Also would love to see the 9mm vs the .30 super carry
The pocket pistols are smaller than the revolver. Even a 9mm Kahr P9 Cover (grip cut to use PM9 magazines) is not as big, and it has a 3.5" barrel with probably superior ballistics.
I've always thought of a 2" snub as a pocket gun, mainly as I've carried a 2" revolver in my front pocket for nearly 10 years. I've found that semi autos are smaller, but for me they are too small and even tip over in the pocket, muzzle facing backwards usually. And yes I use pocket holsters. I prefer the revolver cylinder pushing the holster outward in the pocket and it printing what looks like a fat wallet, over a thin auto evenly printing the shape of a pistol. That's just me
@@GunSam I pocket-carried a S&W 442 for six years. But a bit over 20 years ago I switched to a Kahr P9 Covert (like the MP9, but with a 0.5" longer slide). The pocket holster kept it upright for me and gave it a rectangular shape in the pocket -- and not to thick, either, at just 0.9" wide. For some guns the grip might reveal the shape, but as the grip was also only 0.9" wide it didn't really print.
I work with a guy who tried to rob someone and was shot 3 times in the chest with a 380 jumped out a 2 story window ran to hospital and has no long term effects from incident, I'm not carrying 380 lol
Me either, except it might be in my pocket at home outside.
Not a good option to depend on if you require expansion.
The argument about 38 vs 9, where the 38 is as good or better with the right bullet, etc. doesn’t take into account you can do the same with the 9 and get the same advantage. +p+ extreme defense for instance, defeats soft body armor in several videos, not a 38 special doing that and penetration is very consistent as well as wound channel. I guess to me it’s like a souped up mustang outrunning a stock Camaro…
And just for clarification, I have several 38’s around the house…loaded with +p extreme defenders. I’m very impressed with them in every caliber and carry 10mm, same loading. Underwood to be exact
I tend to listen to oldtimer's stories. Have a lot of retired cops on this channel who have used .38 Special to extremely good effects. Now in modern times it's not stories, it's videos. You rarely see a video from LE where less than 5-6 hits are made with 9mm, and the suspect is still fighting. I have seen them take up to 15 rounds and still keep coming at the cops swinging with knives. I just do not trust that. You cannot, I repeat cannot make a 9mm a stopping round unless it's a super fast light for caliber one. All of them are so small hollow cavities with such rounded noses that what happens, is they penetrate a good bit, often 5-6" in gel BEFORE their hollow point starts expanding. With .38 Special and a good load, that's not the case. JHP or SJHP they expand immediately and energy dump closer to the surface, and for whatever reason stop threats better. Unless you have a 115 gr 9mm+P+ that will energy dump like that from sheer impact regardless of bullet design, you are always dealing with the same thing, penetrate like an FMJ then slowly expand, dumping very little energy. You can keep thinking what you think and I will keep thinking what I think. But there's a reason why all the videos with 9mm take 10 rounds to stop a threat and all the videos with .40 S&W take two. It's because the .40 S&W has the same nose attributes of a typical flat nose revolver round, so it energy dumps fast.
@@GunSamold timers weren’t dealing with the effects of the drugs being abused today, and most of the old timers I knew were very happy to dump the 38. The argument of the same diameter bullet going much slower doesn’t hold much water.
Good ole 38 still viable…
To me this is unacceptable performance period. They obviously know there's a barrel length threshold where their bullet is going to fail to expand. The consumer has no way of knowing unless they watch videos like yours. This particular ammo has failed other gel tests I've seen. Most people are carrying guns with short barrels or barrels right on that expansion/no expansion threshold so it's a crapshoot whether their "defensive" ammo is going perform as advertised or not.
My wifey doesn't like this brand and spells it a little different. 4 letters and starts with an F.
Inconsistent bullet construction.