I cant believe people are saying this is bad...Aside from the fact that this footage is years old, shot before any of us were likely born, and that Karate-do was a lot different back then, it is still a better kata than most of us could perform.. Oss
It was a start and I am pretty sure that he could punch a hole through any one of us due to the ridiculous amount of training people did back then in general 👍🏿
You can never judge what went on in the past compared to what happens today, it’s like thinking that Issac Newton was an idiot because Albert Einstein came up with a better theory later on.
Really interesting video. The ending movements have alot of similarity to Okinawan kata movements. I wonder who changed it to appear more like the Shotokan it is today
Man, seeing the comments here makes me so proud of being part of Shotokan. I hate when rude jerks show up and talk down to any martial art for "not being MMA". Karate teaches respect and commaradery. Something those MMA keyboard warriors will always lack! Oss...
Absolutly. Karate is discipline. Mma has nothing to do with it. I am an Uechi-ryu Karate practitioner for more than 30 years, but I started with Shotokan and still today I use to do some Shoto katas. Much respect!!
Osu im Shotokan. Most people are bitter because they haven't contributed to society like these incredible people have. True artists. love this kata, one my favourites
Ce qui intéressant dans cette vidéo, les positions ne sont pas comme à notre époque et même plus intéressant qu'aujourd'hui. Ça montre qu'on doit le faire non pas comme les japonais mais comme notre morphologie de notre corps
to acerwk, I have studied Shotokan for 20 years and Aikido for 8 years and in talking with my instructors over the years, I understand that Gichin Funakoshi Sensei and Morihei Ueshiba Sensei (the founder of Aikido)did in fact train together as did Jigoro Kano Sensei (the founder of Judo). So you can only assume that alot of techniques were shared between these great masters. And to echo one of the other posters, all the arts are great, it is the practioners that will differ!
Shotokan is still one of the most effective self defense arts on the world, it's together with BJJ and Muay thai in the top 3. if you fail to see that we have a load of defenses against roundhouse attacks, low kicks and take downs than you are either blind, non understanding or you dont want to see it at all. Check lyoto machida, all he does is shotokan in 99% of his matches, and he IS the world champ atm in his class of mma
Karate was distorted as of 1901, when they introduced it into the physical education for children back in Okinawa. They had to water down technique to make it safer for the children. Because of the nerve points that could be hit with some of the more traditional techniques. Like the full twist punch for example, which would not allow the hand to get into certain crevasses and tight areas of the body. Originally there was only a 3/4 twist punch or vertical fist punch. All the kata, whether it changed or varied from the original was to practice hitting or manipulating the nerve points on the body and to focus on specific points, that was taught for bunkai of the kata. The Chinese taught the Okinawans, who taught the Japanese.
Let me remind you that the primary mission is to teach a new generation of karateka, not feed yours or the older generations' egos. Now, I got this from my sensei, a third source, so I don't know if it's accurate, but Mr. Nakayama was actually told by Master Funakoshi NOT copy everything that Mr. Funakoshi did. Of course, this is hearsay same as your stories, but a JKA friend and I both have stories of real-life self-defense, (w/o knowing the real bunkai at the time, mind you)
That doesn't suck! That's all old school, the way it was done before us. It's a great form, it has his whole body behind those moves, check out the guy's hips, they back every movement. This form was meant to teach body mechanics and balance, not look pretty in some XMA competition.
@IEKUKATAKA Upon further historical review, you'd find that Funakoshi's students weren't the only ones pushing for this "distortion". Mabuni's (Funakoshi's fellow student of Itosu's and Higaonna's) Shito-Ryu students also formed tournaments (in which JKA students were invited), as well as Yamaguchi's Goju-Kai members. In fact, the majority of the Japanese Karate-ka (Shotokan or other) were enjoying the excitement of early sport kumite in the 60's and onwards...
Also look as example at Tetsuhiko Asai, the way he fights shotokan is FULL of defenses against takedowns and with takedowns and everything. Karate is also an growing art, the basics and fundamentals are made by funakoshi, but people like Tetsuhiko Asai, Nakayama add things to shotokan aswell.
There's a difference between tournament kata (performance art) and kata that was just another excercise people who were actually learning how to fight did. This is the latter.
@acerwk ok that just isn't true, last class we worked on take down defense and counter, and this was ISKF, direct off shoot of JKA wich BTW is , as far as i can tell from reading about the family, Machida Karate, yes BJJ is a good style. learned alittle while training in Krav ma ga, but you have to understand, Funakoshi spent half a chapter in "Karate-do; My way of life" about his love for the okinawan grappling. witch is Similar to Sumo and Juijutsu. oss
A reverse bow stance in Shotokan - interesting! Never seen it done like that. I've read that Gigo-sensei didn't do many hip twists at all yet he can generate some of the strongest techniques. It's like Gigo-sensei eventually discovered the essence of many Southern Kung Fu by himself
@IEKUKATAKA For example, Okano's Kenkojuku, an offshoot school (separate, but kept ties with Funakoshi) older than the JKA, practices Shotokan similar to Nakayama's. Egami's Shotokai (anti-JKA at Funakoshi's funeral) also has their "distorted" view on the art. Even Oshima's SKA (Oshima refused to join Nakayama or Nishiyama, but kept ties with Egami) practices the art in a sport form. These are but a few of original students, who were disassociated with each other upon Funakoshi's death yet...
someone getting kicked from a school does not mean that their style is bad, it means they themselves were bad. And MOST shotokan does not have practical drills against those things. It's up to the practitioner of ANY style to fill in any blanks that they feel they need to on their own time. If my school doesn't teach me something, then i go out of my way to learn about it myself. You can't blame a school for producing an incompitent fighter, only the fighter for being incompitent.
@Tapiola2007 i also train in MuayThai... and i also practice buddhism, because of my martial arts, its a way of life... not so much a sport... its a discipline.... with REAL VALUES...but ppl av to be wise enough to begin with from theyre 1st day in the dojo or theyl never get it.... Oss!! _/\_
hermoso! cuando el karate no era " figurita cuando el karate no era solo para lucirse cuando los movimientos eran mas simples pero efectivos como tiene que ser" lastima que ahora todo sea pura pose y hasta cambian el curso de las tecnicas para que se ven mas bonitas.. lastima!!
Hear that, people? He's ready to pass judgement and regards us as "impudent upstarts" and thinks we're hopeless. HIS word is 'truth,' and if I can infer, he probably thinks it's HIS Karate or no Karate. Furthermore, he probably thinks HIS karate is too good for the likes of us, but he wants to say that our karate is crap.
i see what u mean but u have to be more open minded...it is also about the self defense..and even pasted that to the fighting, which is also art. its just who has perfected their art the most. fighting isnt always about hurting but to defend or just to have fun with a friend or someone..its like a dance if u really look at it and compare it a a geisha...and to tell you the truth the more perfect your kata the better fighter you can be....well depending on the person
Bunkai is up to youwhat you make out it. If you want to block a oi tsuki only, pls do so. A round house punch can be block by every (fast executed) shuto uke. Are there no shuto ukes in shotokan ? This would be a novum indeed. I have to admit and this is true that most instructors just try to get away with bunkai by just demonstrating another new way (of probably 60) how to deal with an Oi Tsuki... So all in all: Defending techniques are there in plenty, but never trained.
Quit bullshitting to further your agenda. Mr. Funakoshi gave his seal of approval to what Gigo did. The two co-wrote "Karate Do Nyumon" together. Mr. Shigeru Egami (Mr. Funakoshi's self appointed successor) commented that Gigo was a Karate genius. The one thing they DIDN'T agree on was jiyu kumite, which I agree, there are benefits to not doing jiyu kumite, but this isn't the day and age where Karate-jutsu is being trained 8-hrs a day. There is a REASON why it's Karate-do in the modern age!
Oh, and no defence against takedowns? Hah! You know nothing about karate. Takedowns, defences against them, and applying limb-crippling locks/breaks are all in karate, you just don't know where to look or what you're looking for. Kata is the encyclopedia of martial arts, and Shotokan is no exception. The techniques in kata are symbolic of their uses. A move can look like a block and counter, but more advanced it can become a takedown. You just need the imagination to be able to see it.
Колотит воздух он красиво. Согласен. Но воздух не может ответить. Где можно посмотреть результат его тренировок- спариинги? Ведь карате- это же не балет? Я прав?
@IEKUKATAKA So ultimately, what I am trying to reveal to you, is that your "truth" is not the real "truth" either. Its only half a "truth", mixed with negative emotions that lead nowhere. As I said, nothing guarantees what you teach won't be changed down the line either, especially waay after your gone.
it IS from a film that features Gushin Funakoshin,and the Kata Id heian Godan.Karete is much more than kata,it is also kumite and Kihon….so ,for you that dont understand katas ,it is a series of tekneuqs ,mentaly you can use this to keep "your own Space clear of attackers and enemys" it is to learn and memorice new and old tekneeqs.So dont jugde karate on a kata….it is so much more.
@IEKUKATAKA Especially on you tube, right? Besides, if you are going to separate Karate-Jitsu, which you prefer, from Karate-Do. Then why call JKA liars? They never profess teaching Karate-Jitsu, butu Karate-Do? If you think I am wrong, let me know which publication says otherwise so I can expand my learning.
You're once again wrong, this is like saying: Boxing only has a hook, and no other attacks at all. or muay thai has only low kicks and nothing else. and we get taught aswell but the real focus on defending against weapons is on higher levels. before that the focus is on unarmed fights.
@gonorrhoeheliumgirl and with today's performance, you couldn't get a shodan back then... vice versa... times change, so does kata.... Probably your performance wouldn't get you anywhere in the future either.
I THINK THE KIDS DOING THESE KATAS IN MODERNS TIMES DO MORE AND MORE BETTER OR WE CAN SAY MORE DEFINING KATAS NOW DAYS. OLD PEOPLE DO WITH STRENGTH AND STRENTH ONLY THEY DON'T DO THIS FOR SHOWBIZZ.
@@ckhthd there seem to be no videos of Gigo Funakoshi. Kase and Nishiyama, if they ever saw him were teenagers and would not have had access to him. So that's all they did (if anything): see him. Egami Sensei and maybe some other in the same generation trained with him. Just because it's a bad quality video doesn't make this Gigo. I think it's mostly wishful thinking.
@@m.a.gallardo2050 What evidence do you have that there is no video of him? Kase Sensei was without question his direct student at the Shotokan. I can easily remember karate instructors quite well from when I was a teenager. I met Kanazawa sensei at 18 only one time and remember him vividly. I think in order to demand someone change the title of this posting that you offer some kind of evidence that this is not Yoshitaka Funakoshi. Two senior Shotokan instructors who knew him confirming it, while not proof positive, seems like better evidence than a groundless denial. Unless, of course you have evidence or reliable testimony that it is not.
@@ckhthd yes, if it were only me stating there are no videos (there are more people in this thread), I can't remember who said that to me (I remember it was in Japan), you are right it does sound a bit vague and certainly would not stand up against the word of two renowned sports karateka (though I do know they all tried to take advantage of Gigo's reputation for their benefit). In this case, I do think it's more a matter of common sense. There are barely any photos of Yoshitaka, so I would think it was even less likely there would be movies. At the time Gigo trained no other place than the Shoto-kan, Shoto-kai's Main Dojo. The only series of photos I have seen of Yoshitaka with another karateka is together with Sensei Shigeru Egami, which is understandable as he was one of the best senior students (he took over the technical direction of the school from O-sensei Funakoshi when he died) and at least some 10-15 years older than Kase and Nishiyama (whom I believe never trained directly with him as Gigo was reclusive). Regarding Kase, I do believe he never trained with Gigo, the Wiki entry that states his website as a "reference" (!!!) says: "In 1944, he read a book on karate by Gichin Funakoshi, and was inspired to begin studying that art under Funakoshi himself. He also trained under Funakoshi's son, Gigō Funakoshi, before the latter's death in 1945." Can anybody believe that he would in a year be able to train up to a level where he would train with the ailing Yoshitaka Funakoshi (he was dying of TB)? No way. He may have been in the same dojo building at the same time, but train WITH him, not in a million years! I believe it's a just a convenient "white" lie the school has propagated as a marketing ploy. If you look at the person in the video, the complexion and face do not seem to match at all, Gigo had a short stocky body, though the bad quality could be fooling us. If you want to confirm you'll need to contact the successor school and style representatives that are the Shotokai School in Tokyo. The URL is www.shotokai.jp/ Greetings
@IEKUKATAKA ...yet still practice Karate in a sport form (save Egami's Shotokai) with similar judging systems adopted from Kendo. So, who is really at fault with this "distortion"? Upon your studying Shotokan history (besides being a practitioner yourself), did it ever occur to you that it could be Funakoshi himself at fault? That accusation, friend, was directed at Funakoshi by some of his esteemed peers during his time, including the founder of my Okinawan Karate-Do school (Shoshin Nagamine).
You're so wrong.... Martial art magazines etc produce shotokan as #2 or #3 as most effective martial art. Defending against weapons is a part of the normal syllabus for 3th degree black belts and higher btw. We only get taught traditional shotokan karate btw ;) nothing more nothing less. and I learned to defend against most takedowns, and most attacks an muay thay-er, boxer, kickboxer would use, and as for takedowns most of them can be annihilated by shotokan defenses/counters
@acerwk Karate is not even about that. I don't expect you to understand that, but... One could use karate to beat people the same way a golf player could beat someone using his golf club after practicing the swing move. He could certainly do that and he would probably kill the person as he is used to move the club fairly quickly... but that's not why he goes practice. Karate's objective has nothing to do with beating people, but any average karateka could kick you ass if you insist enough.
How do you know? There is twenty minutes of early 1930's film all over the internet identified by Hidetaka Nishiyam as Gigo. Kase Sensei said it was Gigo, and he was his direct student.
@@ckhthd Where and when would Nishiyama and Kase have identified this person as Funakoshi Yoshitaka? Which video of the thirties are you talking about?
@@kobayashimaruaikiken It has been available since about 199 in digital format. They saw it at various times I would suppose. Perhaps students showed it to them. Nishiyama Sensei saw it when the producers of the 24 minute version asked him to ID people in the video. My teacher knew Yoshitaka Funakoshi quite well but died before the public internet was dreamed of. And how do you know it is not?
@IEKUKATAKA Still with the JKA bashing, I've never heard one reputable Okinawan Karate master set his heart on debasing the JKA, and I find it strange that a person of your vast experience and wisdom could not truthfully see this as a simple waste of time and emotional energy. True, Nakayama's (JKA) is a distortion of Okinawan Karate (as you know I am also a student of). But did it ever occur to you that the JKA is only one of many original unassociated schools that teach similar distortions?
Who's "everybody" ???? If it's true, show us some photos of it, tell when and where it happened, give us some eyewittness acounts of it. I met a seventeen-legged monster from Mars yesterday who, in 1912 beat up all the greatest goju ryu masters. It's true and everybody knows it. Go get your glass of milk and go to sleep. Your mother is getting mad already, and you know how bad you get beaten-up when she's mad. Remember yesterday? Better go sleep and leave fighting to grown-ups.
@IEKUKATAKA Its true, Funakoshi did not want Karate to go this way. But the distortion started when he introduced it to the Japanese. None of the Okinawan masters that landed in the Japan could not stop the Japanese from competing with one another. No one can stop the competitive nature of human beings. Even you, after your death, cannot guarantee the Karate you profess to teach will be "distorted" by your students or their students.
@IEKUKATAKA When I can clearly see that your anger is misdirected, I just had to jump in this debate. JKA is only one in a thousand "distortions". There other Shotokan schools that do the same thing, a product of human nature. Why don't you voice out against Egami's Shotokai... Of all schools I've come across, they're even furthest from original Karate. I don't voice out against them because I believe that everyone has their own opinion which deserves a certain respect one way or another.
dude.. you talk like Oi Tsuki is the only weapon we have as karate... there are hundreds of other ways to beat an opponent. Oi tsuki's are very nice though in long distant fighting.
Okuyama Sensei was born in 1919 and did not start karate until university at 18. The back stances at the end of the kata date it before 1936. He had not even started karate and was likely about 15 when this was shot. I know for a fact that Hidetaka Nishiyama identified this as Gigo, and he knew the man.
@IEKUKATAKA 26? I'm 42! And have been studying since 1982! My historical research on Karate started in 1995. I can give you a list of my bibliography, plus the dojos I had visited (Shotokan and otherwise) as part of the research. What part of my argument is false, and what proof do you have? You sound like a father who can't find explanations about why the sky is blue, therefore reverts to "You're too young and wet behind the ears to know anything."
OH, didn't know you resorted to the "how old are you" as well in the end. I'll put it in simple terms. Okinawan karate IS superior. But, having sparred w/ a few, I noticed the classes lacked structure, and despite having some students being OUTSTANDING, many (even though they have superior techniques) are WEAK, physically and mentally. Yes, I know the story about when they were popularizing, btw Well, these people AREN'T successors and in the end, your argument is just one word against another
@IEKUKATAKA I'm actually trying to help you understand what you're doing to yourself. I am no longer with the JKA, and they would no longer have me, since they discovered I was teaching Karate outside the dojo. Really, I could care less if the JKA splinters into a million pieces. What you don't understand about me, is that when I come across a person who professes something which I consider false, I speak up. Reading your ranting and raving and harassing about something you profess you know..
@IEKUKATAKA Even the video above is not a publication or production of the JKA. So what gives? Your issue is the distortion of Karate, not just the JKA. And BTW, I know more than a handful of Okinawans who know about the JKA here in NY. As I said, fellow Okinawans pointed at Funakoshi as the one guilty of Karate distortion. Evidence? The other Shotokan schools. Not just the JKA. Your knowledge of Shotokan history as well as the other Japanized Karate schools is lacking.
You obviously do not know ANYTHING about shotokan karate or Lyoto's fighting style. If you look at his matches he won way over 90% of them with karate technique's. also Bunkai doesn't mean that that's the only thing you can do with those technique's. from the very first Heian kata there are takedown technique's and from the 2e heian kata there are defenses against takedowns.
João Marcos Lima verdade, hoje modernizou muito. Se minha sensei visse isso ela respeitaria mas não aprovaria eu fazer um kata com os movimentos aplicados iguais aos dele.
@IEKUKATAKA Even several Okinawan schools have been riding the competition bandwagon since the 80's (example, Ryuei-Ryu's Sakamoto), especially on Okinawan soil. On another point, do you think this constant ranting, raving and harassing people on you tube actually solves your problem? The point of your crusade is to stop Karate "distortion", isn't it? Do you think this petty and ugly method can stop human nature? In some imaginary world, if the JKA does collapse... does the lying stop?
@IEKUKATAKA Its ugly, because you are singling out the JKA as liars, when the fact is they are not. They are teaching what they think is Karate, just as all the other original and historically unassociated Shotokan schools do. That is "their" Karate, whether you like it or not. The real problem you have is really not the JKA, but the issue of its "distortion". Whether one or two or three or more people agree with you, it does not stop the distortion (human nature), making your efforts useless.
You seriously have no single clue what you're talking about... We have,and train defenses against all kinds of strikes, against knife and stick attacks. Shotokan allways was, and will most likely allways be one of the 3 most effective self defense arts on the world.
Very bad form. And no rhythm, not to mention no kime. Japanese karate has come a long way. Also, Funakoshi, you know, was chosen to represent karate to the Japanese because of his social class, not his technical mastery or because he was the best fighter.
I cant believe people are saying this is bad...Aside from the fact that this footage is years old, shot before any of us were likely born, and that Karate-do was a lot different back then, it is still a better kata than most of us could perform..
Oss
It was a start and I am pretty sure that he could punch a hole through any one of us due to the ridiculous amount of training people did back then in general 👍🏿
You can never judge what went on in the past compared to what happens today,
it’s like thinking that Issac Newton was an idiot because Albert Einstein came up with a better theory later on.
Really interesting video. The ending movements have alot of similarity to Okinawan kata movements. I wonder who changed it to appear more like the Shotokan it is today
Man, seeing the comments here makes me so proud of being part of Shotokan. I hate when rude jerks show up and talk down to any martial art for "not being MMA". Karate teaches respect and commaradery. Something those MMA keyboard warriors will always lack! Oss...
Absolutly. Karate is discipline. Mma has nothing to do with it. I am an Uechi-ryu Karate practitioner for more than 30 years, but I started with Shotokan and still today I use to do some Shoto katas. Much respect!!
Lyoto Machida was a brilliant fighter, but he was also a respectful fighter.
Osu im Shotokan. Most people are bitter because they haven't contributed to society like these incredible people have. True artists. love this kata, one my favourites
I love how he puts his entire body into it, I can see all sorts of grappling and takedowns in this form. You really don't see it done like this today.
Ce qui intéressant dans cette vidéo, les positions ne sont pas comme à notre époque et même plus intéressant qu'aujourd'hui. Ça montre qu'on doit le faire non pas comme les japonais mais comme notre morphologie de notre corps
If one kata can be mastered all parts will come into play, and from form we become formless and freeflowing, in the moment beyond thought....
to acerwk, I have studied Shotokan for 20 years and Aikido for 8 years and in talking with my instructors over the years, I understand that Gichin Funakoshi Sensei and Morihei Ueshiba Sensei (the founder of Aikido)did in fact train together as did Jigoro Kano Sensei (the founder of Judo). So you can only assume that alot of techniques were shared between these great masters. And to echo one of the other posters, all the arts are great, it is the practioners that will differ!
thank you for uploading this
Shotokan is still one of the most effective self defense arts on the world, it's together with BJJ and Muay thai in the top 3.
if you fail to see that we have a load of defenses against roundhouse attacks, low kicks and take downs than you are either blind, non understanding or you dont want to see it at all.
Check lyoto machida, all he does is shotokan in 99% of his matches, and he IS the world champ atm in his class of mma
Karate was distorted as of 1901, when they introduced it into the physical education for children back in Okinawa. They had to water down technique to make it safer for the children. Because of the nerve points that could be hit with some of the more traditional techniques. Like the full twist punch for example, which would not allow the hand to get into certain crevasses and tight areas of the body. Originally there was only a 3/4 twist punch or vertical fist punch. All the kata, whether it changed or varied from the original was to practice hitting or manipulating the nerve points on the body and to focus on specific points, that was taught for bunkai of the kata. The Chinese taught the Okinawans, who taught the Japanese.
Let me remind you that the primary mission is to teach a new generation of karateka, not feed yours or the older generations' egos. Now, I got this from my sensei, a third source, so I don't know if it's accurate, but Mr. Nakayama was actually told by Master Funakoshi NOT copy everything that Mr. Funakoshi did. Of course, this is hearsay same as your stories, but a JKA friend and I both have stories of real-life self-defense, (w/o knowing the real bunkai at the time, mind you)
Maestro innovatore del karate Shotokan
That doesn't suck! That's all old school, the way it was done before us. It's a great form, it has his whole body behind those moves, check out the guy's hips, they back every movement. This form was meant to teach body mechanics and balance, not look pretty in some XMA competition.
@IEKUKATAKA Upon further historical review, you'd find that Funakoshi's students weren't the only ones pushing for this "distortion". Mabuni's (Funakoshi's fellow student of Itosu's and Higaonna's) Shito-Ryu students also formed tournaments (in which JKA students were invited), as well as Yamaguchi's Goju-Kai members. In fact, the majority of the Japanese Karate-ka (Shotokan or other) were enjoying the excitement of early sport kumite in the 60's and onwards...
Also look as example at Tetsuhiko Asai,
the way he fights shotokan is FULL of defenses against takedowns and with takedowns and everything.
Karate is also an growing art, the basics and fundamentals are made by funakoshi, but people like Tetsuhiko Asai, Nakayama add things to shotokan aswell.
There's a difference between tournament kata (performance art) and kata that was just another excercise people who were actually learning how to fight did. This is the latter.
@acerwk ok that just isn't true, last class we worked on take down defense and counter, and this was ISKF, direct off shoot of JKA wich BTW is , as far as i can tell from reading about the family, Machida Karate, yes BJJ is a good style. learned alittle while training in Krav ma ga, but you have to understand, Funakoshi spent half a chapter in "Karate-do; My way of life" about his love for the okinawan grappling. witch is Similar to Sumo and Juijutsu. oss
A reverse bow stance in Shotokan - interesting! Never seen it done like that. I've read that Gigo-sensei didn't do many hip twists at all yet he can generate some of the strongest techniques. It's like Gigo-sensei eventually discovered the essence of many Southern Kung Fu by himself
Enpi has it Gojushiho has it.
How did he generate power?
すごいです！
I am often doing that.
Crosstraining against any type of fighter that I can get my hand at with nothing more than karate technique's.
Именно он взял удары ногами в верхней части с Французского вида Савата
@IEKUKATAKA For example, Okano's Kenkojuku, an offshoot school (separate, but kept ties with Funakoshi) older than the JKA, practices Shotokan similar to Nakayama's. Egami's Shotokai (anti-JKA at Funakoshi's funeral) also has their "distorted" view on the art. Even Oshima's SKA (Oshima refused to join Nakayama or Nishiyama, but kept ties with Egami) practices the art in a sport form. These are but a few of original students, who were disassociated with each other upon Funakoshi's death yet...
2022?
tienes rason en todo menos en una cosa el karate es para lusirse y es pura pose ... pero solo en wkf. en jka es como tiene q ser como era antes :)
someone getting kicked from a school does not mean that their style is bad, it means they themselves were bad. And MOST shotokan does not have practical drills against those things. It's up to the practitioner of ANY style to fill in any blanks that they feel they need to on their own time. If my school doesn't teach me something, then i go out of my way to learn about it myself. You can't blame a school for producing an incompitent fighter, only the fighter for being incompitent.
これを見ると、父である義珍氏ではなく義豪氏が松濤館の基礎的な動作を構築した事が分かる。
真の沖縄空手は動き易い様に足幅は広くせず、自然体に近い。空手を学ぶ大学生を４年で仕上げるため、鍛錬を目的として義豪氏が苦しい立ち方に改変したと言われている。
Je me demande ce que maître Funakoshi penserait du karaté actuel
😱 the third son of Gichin!! It's the Kata I'm learning
Interesting, pretty similar to Toyama line. Posture is off a bit but not bad.
@Tapiola2007 i also train in MuayThai... and i also practice buddhism, because of my martial arts, its a way of life... not so much a sport... its a discipline.... with REAL VALUES...but ppl av to be wise enough to begin with from theyre 1st day in the dojo or theyl never get it.... Oss!! _/\_
hermoso! cuando el karate no era " figurita cuando el karate no era solo para lucirse
cuando los movimientos eran mas simples pero efectivos
como tiene que ser" lastima que ahora todo sea pura pose y hasta cambian el curso de las tecnicas para que se ven
mas bonitas.. lastima!!
There REALLY are no videos of Yoshitaka “Gigo” Funakoshi.
Oss
@acerwk if you follow shotokan properly , you can't be taken down.
Hear that, people? He's ready to pass judgement and regards us as "impudent upstarts" and thinks we're hopeless. HIS word is 'truth,' and if I can infer, he probably thinks it's HIS Karate or no Karate. Furthermore, he probably thinks HIS karate is too good for the likes of us, but he wants to say that our karate is crap.
Cool
i see what u mean but u have to be more open minded...it is also about the self defense..and even pasted that to the fighting, which is also art. its just who has perfected their art the most. fighting isnt always about hurting but to defend or just to have fun with a friend or someone..its like a dance if u really look at it and compare it a a geisha...and to tell you the truth the more perfect your kata the better fighter you can be....well depending on the person
This is much more likely how I have learned it.
Compare Funakoshi with e.g. Kanazawa? What for? You learn best from both!
Bunkai is up to youwhat you make out it. If you want to block a oi tsuki only, pls do so. A round house punch can be block by every (fast executed) shuto uke. Are there no shuto ukes in shotokan ? This would be a novum indeed.
I have to admit and this is true that most instructors just try to get away with bunkai by just demonstrating another new way (of probably 60) how to deal with an Oi Tsuki...
So all in all: Defending techniques are there in plenty, but never trained.
I don’t be;I’ve that is gigo
and this is not Gichin
Quit bullshitting to further your agenda. Mr. Funakoshi gave his seal of approval to what Gigo did. The two co-wrote "Karate Do Nyumon" together. Mr. Shigeru Egami (Mr. Funakoshi's self appointed successor) commented that Gigo was a Karate genius. The one thing they DIDN'T agree on was jiyu kumite, which I agree, there are benefits to not doing jiyu kumite, but this isn't the day and age where Karate-jutsu is being trained 8-hrs a day. There is a REASON why it's Karate-do in the modern age!
lol i want u to say that to my sensei...or any black belt...see what happens then and you tell me if its a martial arts or not
義豪さんの時だとかなり深い前屈立ちになってる。
OSS
Oh, and no defence against takedowns? Hah! You know nothing about karate. Takedowns, defences against them, and applying limb-crippling locks/breaks are all in karate, you just don't know where to look or what you're looking for. Kata is the encyclopedia of martial arts, and Shotokan is no exception. The techniques in kata are symbolic of their uses. A move can look like a block and counter, but more advanced it can become a takedown. You just need the imagination to be able to see it.
I know we can stop them with that.
since I do it myself, with nothing more than karate technique's.
dont gigo Okuyama Sensei
Колотит воздух он красиво. Согласен. Но воздух не может ответить. Где можно посмотреть результат его тренировок- спариинги? Ведь карате- это же не балет? Я прав?
OSS!!!!!
@IEKUKATAKA So ultimately, what I am trying to reveal to you, is that your "truth" is not the real "truth" either. Its only half a "truth", mixed with negative emotions that lead nowhere. As I said, nothing guarantees what you teach won't be changed down the line either, especially waay after your gone.
it IS from a film that features Gushin Funakoshin,and the Kata Id heian Godan.Karete is much more than kata,it is also kumite and Kihon….so ,for you that dont understand katas ,it is a series of tekneuqs ,mentaly you can use this to keep "your own Space clear of attackers and enemys" it is to learn and memorice new and old tekneeqs.So dont jugde karate on a kata….it is so much more.
@IEKUKATAKA Especially on you tube, right? Besides, if you are going to separate Karate-Jitsu, which you prefer, from Karate-Do. Then why call JKA liars? They never profess teaching Karate-Jitsu, butu Karate-Do? If you think I am wrong, let me know which publication says otherwise so I can expand my learning.
You're once again wrong,
this is like saying: Boxing only has a hook, and no other attacks at all. or muay thai has only low kicks and nothing else.
and we get taught aswell but the real focus on defending against weapons is on higher levels. before that the focus is on unarmed fights.
@gonorrhoeheliumgirl and with today's performance, you couldn't get a shodan back then... vice versa... times change, so does kata.... Probably your performance wouldn't get you anywhere in the future either.
I THINK THE KIDS DOING THESE KATAS IN MODERNS TIMES DO MORE AND MORE BETTER OR WE CAN SAY MORE DEFINING KATAS NOW DAYS. OLD PEOPLE DO WITH STRENGTH AND STRENTH ONLY THEY DON'T DO THIS FOR SHOWBIZZ.
thanks master
👍
おっす!
osss
Where's the explosion?
Sorry, but this is not Gigo, please correct the video title.
How do you know? Both Nishiyama and Kase Sensei have said that it is and they both knew him.
@@ckhthd there seem to be no videos of Gigo Funakoshi. Kase and Nishiyama, if they ever saw him were teenagers and would not have had access to him. So that's all they did (if anything): see him. Egami Sensei and maybe some other in the same generation trained with him. Just because it's a bad quality video doesn't make this Gigo. I think it's mostly wishful thinking.
@@m.a.gallardo2050 What evidence do you have that there is no video of him? Kase Sensei was without question his direct student at the Shotokan. I can easily remember karate instructors quite well from when I was a teenager. I met Kanazawa sensei at 18 only one time and remember him vividly. I think in order to demand someone change the title of this posting that you offer some kind of evidence that this is not Yoshitaka Funakoshi. Two senior Shotokan instructors who knew him confirming it, while not proof positive, seems like better evidence than a groundless denial. Unless, of course you have evidence or reliable testimony that it is not.
@@ckhthd yes, if it were only me stating there are no videos (there are more people in this thread), I can't remember who said that to me (I remember it was in Japan), you are right it does sound a bit vague and certainly would not stand up against the word of two renowned sports karateka (though I do know they all tried to take advantage of Gigo's reputation for their benefit).
In this case, I do think it's more a matter of common sense. There are barely any photos of Yoshitaka, so I would think it was even less likely there would be movies. At the time Gigo trained no other place than the Shoto-kan, Shoto-kai's Main Dojo.
The only series of photos I have seen of Yoshitaka with another karateka is together with Sensei Shigeru Egami, which is understandable as he was one of the best senior students (he took over the technical direction of the school from O-sensei Funakoshi when he died) and at least some 10-15 years older than Kase and Nishiyama (whom I believe never trained directly with him as Gigo was reclusive).
Regarding Kase, I do believe he never trained with Gigo, the Wiki entry that states his website as a "reference" (!!!) says: "In 1944, he read a book on karate by Gichin Funakoshi, and was inspired to begin studying that art under Funakoshi himself. He also trained under Funakoshi's son, Gigō Funakoshi, before the latter's death in 1945." Can anybody believe that he would in a year be able to train up to a level where he would train with the ailing Yoshitaka Funakoshi (he was dying of TB)? No way. He may have been in the same dojo building at the same time, but train WITH him, not in a million years! I believe it's a just a convenient "white" lie the school has propagated as a marketing ploy.
If you look at the person in the video, the complexion and face do not seem to match at all, Gigo had a short stocky body, though the bad quality could be fooling us.
If you want to confirm you'll need to contact the successor school and style representatives that are the Shotokai School in Tokyo. The URL is www.shotokai.jp/
Greetings
Osu.
@IEKUKATAKA ...yet still practice Karate in a sport form (save Egami's Shotokai) with similar judging systems adopted from Kendo. So, who is really at fault with this "distortion"? Upon your studying Shotokan history (besides being a practitioner yourself), did it ever occur to you that it could be Funakoshi himself at fault? That accusation, friend, was directed at Funakoshi by some of his esteemed peers during his time, including the founder of my Okinawan Karate-Do school (Shoshin Nagamine).
@gonorrhoeheliumgirl Have you read any Karate history books? Call me a nerd, but with your comments we know which of us is uneducated...
this is not Giko Funakoshi....
Yeah it ain't giko it's gigo
You're so wrong....
Martial art magazines etc produce shotokan as #2 or #3 as most effective martial art.
Defending against weapons is a part of the normal syllabus for 3th degree black belts and higher btw.
We only get taught traditional shotokan karate btw ;) nothing more nothing less. and I learned to defend against most takedowns, and most attacks an muay thay-er, boxer, kickboxer would use, and as for takedowns most of them can be annihilated by shotokan defenses/counters
@acerwk Karate is not even about that.
I don't expect you to understand that, but... One could use karate to beat people the same way a golf player could beat someone using his golf club after practicing the swing move. He could certainly do that and he would probably kill the person as he is used to move the club fairly quickly... but that's not why he goes practice.
Karate's objective has nothing to do with beating people, but any average karateka could kick you ass if you insist enough.
The name is Gichin Funakoshi
Hello; you are confused. That is the father; however, this is not one of the sons is another sensei; Okuyama
There are no videos of Yoshitaka "Gigo" Funakoshi.
How do you know? There is twenty minutes of early 1930's film all over the internet identified by Hidetaka Nishiyam as Gigo. Kase Sensei said it was Gigo, and he was his direct student.
@@ckhthd Where and when would Nishiyama and Kase have identified this person as Funakoshi Yoshitaka? Which video of the thirties are you talking about?
@@kobayashimaruaikiken It has been available since about 199 in digital format. They saw it at various times I would suppose. Perhaps students showed it to them. Nishiyama Sensei saw it when the producers of the 24 minute version asked him to ID people in the video. My teacher knew Yoshitaka Funakoshi quite well but died before the public internet was dreamed of. And how do you know it is not?
@@ckhthd :-)
Could you please link me this video found all over the internet?
@@kobayashimaruaikiken When you answer my question. How do you know it is not?
@IEKUKATAKA yes, I debate, but not debate with that one person, not a whole organnization, which is more unrealistic and a waste of time, no?
@IEKUKATAKA Still with the JKA bashing, I've never heard one reputable Okinawan Karate master set his heart on debasing the JKA, and I find it strange that a person of your vast experience and wisdom could not truthfully see this as a simple waste of time and emotional energy. True, Nakayama's (JKA) is a distortion of Okinawan Karate (as you know I am also a student of). But did it ever occur to you that the JKA is only one of many original unassociated schools that teach similar distortions?
@IEKUKATAKA yes, I debate, but not debate with that one person, not a whole organization, which is more unrealistic and a waste of time, no?
pinan 5
Who's "everybody" ???? If it's true, show us some photos of it, tell when and where it happened, give us some eyewittness acounts of it. I met a seventeen-legged monster from Mars yesterday who, in 1912 beat up all the greatest goju ryu masters. It's true and everybody knows it. Go get your glass of milk and go to sleep. Your mother is getting mad already, and you know how bad you get beaten-up when she's mad. Remember yesterday? Better go sleep and leave fighting to grown-ups.
@IEKUKATAKA Its true, Funakoshi did not want Karate to go this way. But the distortion started when he introduced it to the Japanese. None of the Okinawan masters that landed in the Japan could not stop the Japanese from competing with one another. No one can stop the competitive nature of human beings. Even you, after your death, cannot guarantee the Karate you profess to teach will be "distorted" by your students or their students.
@IEKUKATAKA When I can clearly see that your anger is misdirected, I just had to jump in this debate. JKA is only one in a thousand "distortions". There other Shotokan schools that do the same thing, a product of human nature. Why don't you voice out against Egami's Shotokai... Of all schools I've come across, they're even furthest from original Karate. I don't voice out against them because I believe that everyone has their own opinion which deserves a certain respect one way or another.
Ok. Why don´t you try a fight with a dancer called Lyoto Machida?
dude..
you talk like Oi Tsuki is the only weapon we have as karate...
there are hundreds of other ways to beat an opponent.
Oi tsuki's are very nice though in long distant fighting.
This is not Gigo definitly. Its okuyama sensei
Okuyama Sensei was born in 1919 and did not start karate until university at 18. The back stances at the end of the kata date it before 1936. He had not even started karate and was likely about 15 when this was shot. I know for a fact that Hidetaka Nishiyama identified this as Gigo, and he knew the man.
@@ckhthd thanks for the info.
@@santannakarate Certainly!
@IEKUKATAKA 26? I'm 42! And have been studying since 1982! My historical research on Karate started in 1995. I can give you a list of my bibliography, plus the dojos I had visited (Shotokan and otherwise) as part of the research. What part of my argument is false, and what proof do you have? You sound like a father who can't find explanations about why the sky is blue, therefore reverts to "You're too young and wet behind the ears to know anything."
OH, didn't know you resorted to the "how old are you" as well in the end.
I'll put it in simple terms. Okinawan karate IS superior. But, having sparred w/ a few, I noticed the classes lacked structure, and despite having some students being OUTSTANDING, many (even though they have superior techniques) are WEAK, physically and mentally. Yes, I know the story about when they were popularizing, btw
Well, these people AREN'T successors and in the end, your argument is just one word against another
всех уделал
@IEKUKATAKA I'm actually trying to help you understand what you're doing to yourself. I am no longer with the JKA, and they would no longer have me, since they discovered I was teaching Karate outside the dojo. Really, I could care less if the JKA splinters into a million pieces. What you don't understand about me, is that when I come across a person who professes something which I consider false, I speak up. Reading your ranting and raving and harassing about something you profess you know..
@IEKUKATAKA Even the video above is not a publication or production of the JKA. So what gives? Your issue is the distortion of Karate, not just the JKA. And BTW, I know more than a handful of Okinawans who know about the JKA here in NY. As I said, fellow Okinawans pointed at Funakoshi as the one guilty of Karate distortion. Evidence? The other Shotokan schools. Not just the JKA. Your knowledge of Shotokan history as well as the other Japanized Karate schools is lacking.
You obviously do not know ANYTHING about shotokan karate or Lyoto's fighting style.
If you look at his matches he won way over 90% of them with karate technique's.
also Bunkai doesn't mean that that's the only thing you can do with those technique's.
from the very first Heian kata there are takedown technique's and from the 2e heian kata there are defenses against takedowns.
Quw horror mds
De fato, era muito diferente.
hsauhsaush. Mas horror não era.
João Marcos Lima verdade, hoje modernizou muito. Se minha sensei visse isso ela respeitaria mas não aprovaria eu fazer um kata com os movimentos aplicados iguais aos dele.
Com certeza!
Mas é aquilo...
Esse cara criou o Karatê Shotokan.
Ou seja, o que conhecemos hoje, não é muito "tradicional".
Mas de fato, as mudanças deixaram o kata mais bonito.
Verdade. E é muito difícil alcançar viu, kata não é moleza.
What the hell's going on in here? It can't be the true spirit of Karate?
you dont know a thing....
@IEKUKATAKA Even several Okinawan schools have been riding the competition bandwagon since the 80's (example, Ryuei-Ryu's Sakamoto), especially on Okinawan soil. On another point, do you think this constant ranting, raving and harassing people on you tube actually solves your problem? The point of your crusade is to stop Karate "distortion", isn't it? Do you think this petty and ugly method can stop human nature? In some imaginary world, if the JKA does collapse... does the lying stop?
@IEKUKATAKA Its ugly, because you are singling out the JKA as liars, when the fact is they are not. They are teaching what they think is Karate, just as all the other original and historically unassociated Shotokan schools do. That is "their" Karate, whether you like it or not. The real problem you have is really not the JKA, but the issue of its "distortion". Whether one or two or three or more people agree with you, it does not stop the distortion (human nature), making your efforts useless.
You seriously have no single clue what you're talking about...
We have,and train defenses against all kinds of strikes, against knife and stick attacks.
Shotokan allways was, and will most likely allways be one of the 3 most effective self defense arts on the world.
Very bad form. And no rhythm, not to mention no kime. Japanese karate has come a long way. Also, Funakoshi, you know, was chosen to represent karate to the Japanese because of his social class, not his technical mastery or because he was the best fighter.
That was trash
OSS