MAGAL: A Galil in .30 Carbine for the Israeli Police
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
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In the early 1990s, Israeli Military Industries (IMI) developed the Galil MAR (Micro Assault Rifle) and the MAGAL at the same time. Both were intended to be very compact rifles, with the MAR in 5.56mm and the MAGAL specifically for police in .30 Carbine. The MAGAL offered the same handling and ergonomics as the regular Galil family, but with a reduced-power cartridge and only semiautomatic operation for better police suitability.
Mechanically, the MAGAL uses a totally standard Galil receiver and bolt carrier, with a bolt face made slightly smaller to fit the .30 Carbine case and the gas piston shortened slightly. A magazine well insert is permanently fitted, using M2 Carbine magazines modified to have an AR-style bolt hold-open (which also reduces their capacity to 27 rounds). It is a gas-operated action, not a blowback conversion.
The MAGAL was tested by Israeli police in 1999, and the guns had some problems. They were never able to get quite as reliable as everyone wanted, and ultimately the police acquired 4,000 of them but decided not to adopted to a wider scale. Attempts were made to market the gun internationally, but not many were sold and total production was only about 6,000.
Many thanks to the Royal Armouries for allowing me to film and disassemble this rare rifle! The NFC collection there - perhaps the best military small arms collection in Western Europe - is available by appointment to researchers:
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You can browse the various Armouries collections online here:
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I always like to see different firearms in .30 carbine, not sure why it’s always been so fascinating to me
The first (popularized) pdw cartridge.
@@zhongligaming3734 A very under appreciated cartridge.
It's amazing what a pile of available surplus can be the progenitor of
Same!
Everybody likes carbines and carbine calibers since they tend to be very lightweight, handy, and useful that almost anybody can operate effectively and find a use for.
It’s tragic that other firearms asides the M1 Carbine never became popular for using 30 Carbine. The French Ceam 1950 deserved to have been just as popular as the MP5.
There's an alternate timeline where 30 carbine has an many options as 5.56
Ruger blackhawk in 30 carbine is cool.
Why? World Police 'murica no likey 9mm?
@@dallesamllhals9161WTF does this mean?
The M1 Carbine could have been the AK-47 during the cold war era... but the Ak-47 showed up.
As for the mysterious tube on the top cover, there were MAGAL versions with various sights mounts on the top cover, see for example "The New Israeli Micro Galil: Semi-automatic MAGAL .30 carbine" in "Small Arms Review". But AK top cover can be somewhat shaky, especially, left to right.
The tube might be the shell of a spring-loaded plunger (12:46) whose front end is pressed against the sloped face of the front trunnion thus providing more solid and reproducible positioning of the top cover.
I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight or small flashlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
@@nickcody7257dont need light to clear the rare malfunction in the feild
Silly Ian, that's where you keep the emergency cigarette. 12:34
i was thinking maybe it's for a cleaning rod? but i could be totally wrong
@@seangibreath5381 I was wondering if it could hold a chemlight. That way in the dark you could see to clear jams, but when the bolt was closed it wouldn't be seen.
@@nickcody7257 that’s actually a genius idea
As a kid, my dad had several M1 carbines and he experimented with bullets to use soft points. I think what he settled on was a Hornady soft point that had a jacket design which would still feed well in the carbines. In his carbines they fed reliably and were very effective on Jack Rabbits and coyotes. Love that little weapon.
Very interesting, Ian. Thank you!
God bless all here. 😊😊😊
Thank you Ian for everything you do for the firearm enthusiast community!
Nicely done Ian, the MAGAL may have never been that popular due to its reliability issues but frankly it's pretty nice and unique to look at and i'm happy that Royal Armouries Museum gave you access to one of those scarce SMGs.
Yes! There’s finally a video about this gun! I love researching obscure guns in small calibers, like in .30 carbine. I’m so happy this exists! Thanks, Ian! ❤️
Small! In what way: Slow or Fast?
@@dallesamllhals9161 idk, just compared to larger guns Ian has reviewed on his channel. I have respect for the .30 carbine, but it ain’t all that either when compared to what we see in the concept of more modern rifle carbines.
These guns were adopted in 2000 by brazilian state of Pará. Taurus hired a bunch of shooters to demonstrate how the 40 S&W was a much wiser and better option (Taurus had a 40 SMG at that moment). Months later Taurus released its 30 caliber FAMAE carbine and the 30 carbine became the best police round ever!
Monopol...
I would have assumed it was due to .30 carbine being not as easy to procure in S. American compared to .40. But you can't blame the sales guys at Taurus for trying.
Police in Rio used a few.
Big .30 carbine fan, thanks for sharing this cool weapon!
Finally learned how the "bolt, hold-open"-catch functions.
Same!
I used to have a Ruger single action revolver in 30 cal carbine. The only problem was that it was sometimes difficult to eject the empty cases from the cylinder because they tended to expand when fired, but didn't always relax from the chamber walls when I tried to reload.
Run a cooler round maybe ?
@@clothar23Cooler as in power or cooler in terms of being cool? Because as for power, all 30 Carbine, excluding Buffalo Bore (and maybe some weird company that lasted 2 months, then died), is the same. If you're talking about coolness factor, nothing is cooler than 30. Carbine.
@@ShogunMongol Nah more like hand loading to a slightly less powerful load. Since as you say commercial rounds are more or less loaded the same.
My only other idea would maybe to have the cylinder polished and lined with a new coating.
I owned one of those. It was scary and accurate. The muzzle blast was horrible! Easily one of the loudest handguns I ever fired. I didn't have the sticky chamber problem in mine.
@@jefferyfite7122 try one of the 30-30 single shot pistols…
That would be a neat thing to have. Heck, I wouldn't mind an AR in .30 Carbine. I'm sure someone, somewhere has one, though I haven't seen it.
Olympic Arms made a run. They're marked PCR-30.
@@jefferyfite7122were they gas operated or simple blowback?
@@flightlesschicken7769 Unfortunately, I don't know.
@@jefferyfite7122 understandable
Thank you Ian! I have been wanting for this one from you for awhile! MAGAL is very interesting and I wish IWI would think about about a retro for the US market!
Absolutely. IWI could smooth out the issues and get this combo to market. Another great gun for the bucket list.
I choose to believe that someone knew what the little pipe thing was welded in the receiver, but they couldn’t comment for the first couple of hours so we’ll never know. Thanks UA-cam.
YeahI knew it, but forgot it again by the time the comments were turned back on
According to a guy on reddit who made his own replica of Magal this is indeed for better case extraction. Otherwise cases have a tendency to get stuck there
Was a volunteer police officer since 1999 and I never saw these, is indeed rare. We used the standard caliber 5.56 30 round magazines
These were again short lived as the police soon moved to M4 5.56 military standard rifles that are being used presently.
Now this is a gun that I wouldn't even have dreamt of existing if it wasn't for Ian's nerd-impetus to explore almost every possible kind of ammo-platform matchup. The very idea of a .30 carbine round in a Galil derivative is only apparent to someone who knows that the Israelis use it extensively in their service and wouldn't have occured to anyone who is more familiar with the dominant 9 mm or Tokarev derivatives in most police use. Thank you Ian for letting us all appreciate a weapon-ammo matchup that is both exotic and yet also fitting once you consider its utility!!!!
It strikes me this weapon would make an excellent home defense weapon. 😎👍
Most folding stock short-barreled rifles and short barrel shotguns would.
Wow, I actually never knew about these. This is cool to hear about.
Really ingenious how they utilized the "extra" length in the magazine area to house the last-round bolt hold-open, and similarly shortened the necessary rearward stroke of the bolt with a thicker buffer. Definitely reduced the re-tooling to a minimum. Efficient design and interesting specimen.
It looks like the designer had a nervous breakdown, un-bullpupped a Tavor and chambered it in .30 carbine
It looks more like a galil with a plastic lower because that's what it is. It clearly has Kalashnikov roots
It looks like a galil with a 10/22 mag not even close to a tavor
Yea lmao 😂😂
This rifle needs to be sold in the U.S. by IWI .
At a fair price not some $ 2500 wonder that bc if the price no one would buy or something similar in 10mm
I still think that for short range situations where body armor isn't expected, .30 carbine is the best PDW round ever made. It's basically a .357 in a long gun. This MAGAL is a good idea and other developers should work on something similar.
Even if it was just good or even okay, they had it readily available.
Finally, the Pontiac Aztec of firearms
Just as a note on the reduced mag capacity, I typically only put 25 rds in my 30 rd mags. It's been my experience that I have significantly fewer reliabilty issued when I don't load the mags to full capacity. YMMV.
FW doing what they do best, really showing some rare and odd weapons. Keep it coming Ian😎👍
Are you sure the aperture is 500 metres, not 50 metres? I mean, a 50 metre precision aperture in .30 carbine would make a lot more sense than a 500 meter one. Also the change in height of the center of the aperture doesnt seem enough for 500m zero vs 50-150m "battle sight"
Yes, i think that it's a 50 meter too. It makes way more sense.
my experience with a 5.56 galil is that when a casing gets stuck in the inside, where this extra metal tub was added, this causes a really hard to clear malf, you get besides that jammed casing one or more rounds pop out of the magazine. so I imagine that with a shorter cartridge it would happen more often
It amazes me how many different firearms are chambered in .30 M1 Carbine. The originals, the Auto Mag III, the Ruger Blackhawk and now this. When I was just getting into my fire arms interests one of the first ideas I had for a wildcat was just a .30 M1 Carbine case fireformed with a shoulder, and no other changes. Now we have the .300 Blackout!!!
The San Cristobal Carbine as well. ua-cam.com/video/PtWEBcIP09E/v-deo.html
It looks like a movie prop and I love it! :D
No comments on a vid that's over 5 hours old? I suspect yt dickery...
Pretty cool carbine. I think the 30 carbine is a great cqb round... sad to see it fall by the wayside
Yes, probably related to the yt trickery with unsubscribing
@@johnpalmer5131I've lost like a dozen subscriptions to channels I watch regularly lately.
Apparently YT auto disabled the comment section before Ian reenabled it
@@ayyyyph2797 I've seen that a few times now. The recent-ish Canadian M1911 video had comments disabled when it went up, for no apparent reason (later enabled).
With YT it could any number of bullshit reasons: MAGA(L) in the title, the Israeli flag in the thumbnail, the video being about a firearm, Ian not combing his hair enough, goofy ass auto-censoring and captioning bugs. God only knows with how YT operates.
Galil ACE: "Let's just put a plastic shell around a regular Galil and pretend that's an upgrade."
I hate their tendency to just wrap a shitload of plastic around the AK receiver.
Half the gun receiver is lighter and the Galil is like two pounds heavier than it needs to be.
@@Seth9809 More weight = less recoil. If a Galil is too heavy, try carrying an FAL. Or an M-240. Do some pushups.
@@Swindle1984OR I'll carry the lighter gun and 100-500 extra rounds of ammunition. I've never met a combat vet who said "gee I sure wish I had less ammunition in that last fight" Being a meathead doesn't make you cool.
@@A_potato9772 The ACE is 2.1lb lighter. 1lb of 5.56, without clips or magazines, is 37 rounds. You're not carrying 500 rounds of ammo with the weight savings of an ACE. You're also not carrying 500 rounds unless you're a SAW gunner.
Factory had a mohel working the lathe for that gas piston.
.30 carbine is not a pistol or submachinegun bullet. At 1,300 joules it's only marginally less potent than 5.56 (~1,700 joules) and since it's a bigger, slower round, it retains its energy better over longer distances. 9mm packs at most 700 joules of kinetic energy which makes it a much more preferable choice for minimizing collateral damage and unwanted overpenetration, as well as training.
Put it differently, for police work, 9mm is the go-to close range sane kinetic energy round, whereas 5.56 that is already abundunant in the military can do everything else (counter-terrorism and other high profile barricaded suspect situations).
The only reason the Israeli police used .30 carbine to begin with is that M1 and M2 Carbines were a dime a dozen after World War 2 and it needed something cheap (or even free - if I recall correctly, the M1 Carbines were gifted by Jewish Americans donors). There was a lot of ammo lying around, so they toyed with the idea.
If you want to go even deeper in the rabbit hole, look into the HEZI rifle which is simply a modernization of the M1 Carbine.
Also, another factoid, "magal" in Hebrew means scythe, but it also sort of abbreviates "Police Galil" in Hebrew ("Galil mishtara").
These last couple videos were the start of a series?!?! Yes, thank you Ian.
I've been waiting for this one, for a long, long time.
One of the export customers was the Pará State Military Police in Brazil that bought almost 600 of them in late 2000/early 2001. Some of them are still in service and many have also been diverted and get seized in police operations across the country.
Kind of makes sense to make the adjustments in the gas system, instead of redesigning the bolt group.
Given issues with 9mm AK variants. I'd confidently say that top cover tube bit is to aid in ejection
Like the "MAC bracket" on the PSA AKV-9.
Ruger did a short run of Blackhawks in .30 cal. carbine. I've seen one and shot it- it was a monster! If you can find one, could you do a critique on it? Liked the piece on the MAGAL, was a bit surprised at the caliber choice, but your research as usual made some sense of it. Thanks!
A cool little weapon. Thanks for bringing this to us.
You are correct about the ejection dynamics and the placement of that tube. How do I know this?
I heard it from a friend who, heard it from a friend who, heard from somebody you've been messing around... with awesome forgotten weapons! Cheers Ian!!
I was thinking the exact same thing as Ian as soon as he showed the tube in the cover.
For some reason this reminds me of the rifles from F.E.A.R, cool looking any how. I kinda just like different looking guns, this fits the bill.
SO FREAKING AAWESOME!!!
magal sounds like a brand that could sell well today when marketed correctly
Pity they decided to use the 30-round M2 mags; those were always problematic. I'd be curious to see if switching to good quality 15-round mags would have any impact on reliability.
Look better built then American ones
My cousin has an M-1 carbine. Ww2 era. His other grandpa somehow ended up with one after the war. Poker game or something. He was Navy. Anyway, that thing shot like a Cadillac! Very comfortable to shoot. But much past 100 yards was pretty much the same as indirect fire 🤣
Question: What would be the feasibility of importing these for sale in the US?
Since they were never full auto, seems like the only issue is the barrel length, which could be solved with 7 inch long pinned on muzzle device, and or new barrels.
I'm sure they'd sell for a pretty penny in the US.
looks like they still have the auto sear/safety sear in them sadly.
the Make America Great Again Lol
But what would you do about 922r? Wouldn't that need a lot more than a muzzle device and/or barrel?
I first heard of this gun in a mod for Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six (Rogue Spear, I think specifically). My mod folder was larger than the entire game file, LOL.
I was fascinated with the idea and wondered why they didn't catch on as .30 Carbine seemed a good home defense/law enforcement cartridge. Ah, but yeah, same troublesome magazines heavily modified. Plus during that time we were in the midst of our thankfully temporary AWB. In any case, thanks for info on a gun a much younger me was fascinated with.
I have an ex-police issue m1 carbine. This is a cool vid.
To anyone wondering what the Hebrew on the side says at 5:40.... It just says Magal.
Jerry Miculek did a video on AR malfunctions, and the stuck shell above and behind the BCG is one of those.
Brazil's Pará state military police still uses them they got something like 400 units with meprolight sights back in 2001, Taurus and Famae made a .30 carbine version of the Famae SAF/Taurus CT too, but that one had several issues that even lead Taurus to be blacklisted from supplying guns to the São Paulo state military police for 2 years back in 2019.
I'm a total gun newbie but this video is so cool!
The Tube in top cover coincides with the large amount of lightening the carrier took on the left side. It's odd to see 2 carriers like the one you shown as they both look like Magal carriers to me. Out of all the early horizontal MAR carriers I've seen the only ones with lightening cuts like the 2 you've shown are for Magal. I would reason to believe you have 2 Magal carriers in video. Not to say IMI didn't put these in MAR but it suspect to me. The small tube takes the empty space up amd like you said will help prevent shells from entry in that area . Try another true early MAR carrier with that top cover and you will see what I'm talking about. Need pics let me know 😃
Ian, et al, the hebrew on the top right of the Magal's markings don't spell "carbine." They spell "Magal". Right to left, that's Mem-Gimel-Lamed, M-G-L. (Hebrew often drops vowels which is why you don't have a couple alephs in there).
To add my voice to the proponents of 30 carbine, it's a very handy round for a lot of non front line confrontations. I would have a dozen WWII specification carbines made by current makers to modern standards and designed magazines. Too bad all the attempts at bringing it back have been by less than quality manufacturers.
That big bar keeps one from hitting the mag release
Super cool. Thanks.
I think I used to draw this gun in the spaces between my notes back in middle school.
My stick-figure army was well armed with the ugliest fricking gun in the world
I think that tube in the top cover has to do with a case deflector to prevent cases from popping up in there. Maybe if the ejector was further forward it wouldn't have been an issue? Assuming that was the issue...
Interesting choice of caliber
Really peculiar. Nice video, thanks. My initial thought on the mystery tube was indeed "to bounce extracting rounds?". Curious if you ever find out a proper answer!
Quite a few people in the comments confirmed it
You'd have thought a few hand calcs would have indicated mass needs to come out of the bolt carrier
Dope little gun!
That is a very intelligent guess regarding the spot welded tube on the top cover.
That lil magazine on that chunky micro galil i just feel it wrong i know why is made that way the should made a mini micro galil for maching all the parts
The sticky chamber problem might have been caused by using the cartridge cases to much. I reloaded them to save money.
in Vietnam we have a similar weapon like this call STV rifle
I didn’t know about the MAGAL so when I saw the video I got really excited thinking the Israelis had adopted it and would be ramping up .30 carbine production.
Oh cheap surplus ammo for my M1, why have you forsaken me?
Why comments now turned on after 5 hours?
With the present state of things I can’t blame Ian for not wanting to curate the clusterfuck that will inevitably ensue on this video
Take a guess. Give people a couple of hours to cool their tempers. I know he records these in advanced and months ahead of release sometimes, but commentary don't always know that and might think he's trying to make a statement or something stupid.
Ian has previously said on Patreon that sometimes comments are occasionally turned off at random rather than by his doing. It happened a few times recently and when questioned he reactivated them.
Israel block comments on all videos about Israel and genocide topics.
UA-cam just arbitrarily turned them off when the video posted, and I just now got back to an internet connection, saw it, and turned them back on.
When Israel built/ developed their .30 carbine bullpup, did they use the Magal receiver or the m1 carbine?
Comments were initially disabled when I first viewed this.
youtube randomly turns them off without warning or notification
That's YT with all gun content, all the time. It's very weird.
i've always liked the idea of a .30 carbine PDW considering it's energy transfer over the "high velocity penetrator" rounds
this though...? it had a few ok parts but the edges were *rough*
Is there a video of Israeli M1 Carbine bull-pup conversion?
The opening and insides REALLY look like an AK...
Anyways, very unusual and interesting gun, thanks!
Could tube in the top cover be an ejection block used to guide the spent casing out of the ejection port? Guess we just have to take them both to the range and see what happens. 😁
A civilian version of this might sell well in the USA
Wonder if we will see the excel arms X-30R or the Taurus CT-30 soon!!!!
Wow, that sure was... an idea somebody had.
Huh. YT really is on some BS with gun channels.
What do you mean? I'm confused.
@ThatDumbCat-Girl When this video dropped, there was only maybe 6 comments in the first four hours. Meaning UA-cam hid this video during that time period before people saw and commented
.30 carb vs 9mm overpen test when
Given the shape of the tube inside the top cover, I would guess there's something missing from the gun.
I hope they have better quality magazines than the ones I've had. Like the HiPoint carbines, mine were the weak link in an otherwise reliable weapon.
This looks like a sci-fi movie prop and all they had to work with was an AK
Super cool design, but they should have made their own mags!
The gun makes sense!
The bolt hold open, 8:07 “magazine’s not full…” should be magazine’s not Empty, hold open tab goes down.
Suspicious...
Strange looking beast
the paddle release on this particular weapon seems kinda off, i think that ar style release or any button release would work better imo
Legacy of basically being a Jewish AK-74SU.
This looks like something an underpaid artist would submit for a sci-fi RPG source book.
Neat rifle.
Idk why but this makes me think of the nc smgs from planetside 2
No bottle opener??
🙁
Why wasn’t the .30 developed into a common carbine round?
Probably lack of a reliability in the magazine designs. I think the .30 carbine is really cool, but I have not seen or read about a single gun with modern duty level reliability. The issues always seem to go back to the mags. Could be the shape of the case is really difficult to make a decent capacity magazine for. When it comes to personal experience, I've only ever had the 15 rounders make it all the way through in a M1. The 30s always had hang ups.
@@JerfVR That's the best explanation that I've ever heard. I've always thought, at one time there was so much surplus of this ammo type, that it felt crazy the market only had one rifle choice. If this is correct, I totally can see why now.
I love it when Ian does videos on guns from fictional countries
The best comment😂
Great video but I question if the Israeli police ever used the M1 carbine. I have never seen their use. Certainly up to the 1980s local community security neighbourhood watch patrol made use of very antiquated M1 carbines or they are used for tour groups but never by the police from my recollection. It’s more probable M16a2s are used. They said a great video.
About a decade ago, I still saw some M1 carbines around with private and local security entities. Had a guy checking our bags outside a supermarket in Tiberias with an M1. In J-town, most of the police officers were equipped with M4's, same as the military patrols.
@@DiggingForFacts exactly. I have not seen M1 carbines used for years. Military police were using Enfield revolvers in the 1980s! But agree police typically have better access to equipment and now it’s superlative. Often comparable or better than some army units.
Remind me what % 0f 5.66 rifles blow up if the mag has .30 carbine. Oh 0% well then.