All-in-One Solar System: 2 Basic Rules for Shock Hazard Prevention
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2024
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Most all low cost HF AIO inverters do not isolate PV charge controller from HV DC bus which has its polarity flipped at line frequency rate when AC output is active and neutral is ground. This means the PV lines are riding on top of a high voltage squarewave when AC output of inverter is active and neutral is grounded.
This scheme comes from original 'transformerless' PV grid tie inverters (battery-less).
There will be variation depending on state of inverter operation but the primary danger is when AC output H-bridge is active. This is why you need double pole breakers on PV pos and neg lines to remove this HV squarewave when working on panels.
If inverter is in standby mode, in pass-through only, there is still grid AC on H-bridge PWM sinewave IGBT's even though they are not switching. IGBT have a lot of junction capacitance so some grid AC voltage will couple into PV circuit.
Some units have an intermediate DC-DC converter between SCC HV DC output and inverter's HV DC bus. These can sometimes isolate PV from AC H-bridge IGBT devices. The intermediate DC to DC converter is used to convert 500vdc SCC output down to 250vdc HV DC bus for 120vac inverters. It allows PV inputs up to 500vdc even though inverter internal HV DC bus only needs 250vdc. SolArk, Deye have this not only to down convert 500vdc to 250vdc but also to allow PV power to be shared between two separate, isolated 250vdc HV DC buses for the two 120vac inverters that are connected in series for 240/120vac split phase AC output.
OHHHHH ok wow! Glad you commented, I knew you would have some insight. Great information. I was trying to figure out the configuration and this comment clears up a lot. Thank you
So is the solark isolated? I flip all the breakers anyways but good to know I guess
The lack of isolation in transformerless designs is also the reasoning behind many countries requiring fusing or other over current protection in both the + and - leg of the PV wiring. The manuals for HV PV input units usually state that there is no isolation so it's not being kept secret. Read the manuals people. Read the manuals. I'm fairly confident in recalling that this very subject has been mentioned and often stated by at least one person on Will's DIY solar forum quite a time ago so, surprising that this 'discovery' has just been made.
Thank you, I was just about to post this. When my residential PV system was installed, I was told to ensure I disconnected the PV system by the main switch before anything else, then the inverter, then the AC in.... (It uses trickle 220VAC to make the inverter work.) The start-up is exactly the opposite. I thought it was weird, but with your explanation, I know get it. Thank you!
Is it safe to assume low cost LF AIO inverters also do not isolate the PV charge controller?
you realize that you're a Consultant too all these companies free of charge and to all of us Professionals, DIY's, Newbies etc. we all appreciate your hard work. you walk the walk and talk the talk 👍edit: you're Quality Control and these companies listen, making better products
Working industrial maintenance has taught me to treat every terminal on everything as if it is hot, even if you think there is no power in the system. I find it shocking that this is not common practice for lots of folks.
As an electrician, the thing that blew my mind is, he read 120V AC on the input, and then proceeded to short the meter leads while leaving their ends on the terminals.
Good lesson learned. If your meter is reading a voltage, especially as high as 120vac. DO NOT assume something is faulty, or you are just reading some induction. Check with another meter, and at bare minimum, short it out with an insulated wire that has a coiled load of some type to try and discharge it. Never use a $200-300+ meter to try and bleed anything off.
He's lucky it was only 10A, or his hands/face could have discharged the remainder.
We train our guys to only test open dc circuits not under any load, and dead ac panels
Kinda blows me away that This is a thing coming from Will
Lol
@@paaao This is where a simple 25-60w regular light bulb is a great tool to use. If it lights up you have real voltage/current, if not then it is leakage.
"...treat every terminal on everything as if it is hot..." This reminds me of something a laboratory director said to the new students on their first day, "Remember, hot glass and cold glass look the same."
Yes, I absolutely hate the first time I have to touch some bare connections. I mean after I turn off the breaker, move a non-contact around it and then check it with a meter...I KNOW it is off and there is No current... And I still hate touching it the first time!
I believe that the best safety is a good healthy respect for what you are messing with!
Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
The guru has spoken, once again saving you money and your lives one video at a time.
Once again Victron shines 💎
You're doing a great public service Will.
in the AF all electronics personnel are taught the "one hand method" --that is you work on electronic circuits with only one hand at a time
that means do what ever it takes (get alligator clips or whatever) and clip on a terminal then probe with just one hand (stick the other hand behind your back or even in your pocket) --I even teach this when you jump a car batt (clip things on one at a time using one hand)
stay safe everyone
Spent a few years working on CRT monitors and dumb terminals back in the 90's from local hotels. No matter how hard I tried not to get shocked eventually I got zapped. The sound someone made in the room could tell when someone made contact. Also burned a spot on my arm off the flyback wire just brushing the insulated wire although that wasn't as bad as being shocked. The one I remember was a small aluminum heat sink attached to the back of an IC energized with 175V- DC got me good. We would find mice and roaches get into the Wyse terminals from the hotel kitchens eventually they would bite the wrong wire those really stunk. The older guy next to me he was a TV repairman from the 60's and 70's he had some stories having to probe around a Tube TV with a meter while it was on to troubleshoot it.
What would we do without your testing ! Thank god you test these products out . Companies need to hire you as a independent testing lab. You might of saved someone's life with this find
Thanks for posting this! Unfortunately, I saw this too late and was shocked right through the chest by my Growatt. I didn't know what caused the shock until I saw this video.... It happen so fast when was on vacation tightening the PV terminal with my screwdriver without gloves. My solar was totally disconnected but inverter was on. I was very tired at the time. My uninsulated screwdriver was at home. I've sense thrown out all uninsulated screwdrivers. My index finger touched the screwdriver shank when I was tightening the screw. Luckily nothing bad happened. Scared the heck out of me! I'm going to link to this video.
I have this problem with my system that has a eg4 6048. I actually talked to signature solar about it in early October. I had 36 volts A/C back feeding to my panels. I noticed it when I was working on my array while on a ladder and got shocked when I touched my the aluminum frame. I grounded my array and it went away. Be sure your ground is good on the array itself.
You forgot to give yourself credit for wanting to help people. Something the world needs more of. Thankyou for what you do. I have been following you for yrs. Wanting to build my own solar system. I recently bought your foot book for a family member who has painful bone spur on back of foot under AK tendon. I told her this was written by my "boy genius". "Yeah right" she said. I was hapoy to see the book open by her chair. A couple weeks later she was wrapping her foot and told me her it felt a lot better. I laughed and repeated "boy genius".
Thanks, Grammy Sandra, 75 yo. We love you. Keep helping the world.
I discovered this myself two weeks ago when diagnosing issues with my MPP LVX6048WP. I was seeing 40v across my PV inputs, which made me think I had a defective unit. With this unit, however, you can switch off the PV input on the side and it will cut the power to the PV inputs.
Thanks for the great info Will. All the info I learned during my years working on avionics in the Air Force still hold true: always turn off all power before working on any equipment.
Great video Will, thanks for thinking of our safety!
How do you tell if your solar panels have leakage by the way? 🖖
Now I am going to check my system as I was not aware of this problem.
Hi Will. Test Victrons all in one the multi rs solar 6kva. My understanding is it's galvanically isolated so that this can never occur. Sry just saw your victron comments. Be good to see it tested even if they are expensive
My all-in-one’s instructions clearly said to make all connections and Cables before connecting to AC, Batteries, or Panels. Something I believe you missed is the PV. Most of these devices instruct you to connect your Panels in series limiting no load voltage to 500 volts and a working voltage of around 450 max. I believe that needs to be mentioned as a danger as well. JimO
Yeah I added that to the video with a huge text. Check it out again.
I learned this the hard way.
Me too. A big loud pop and blackout. Two transistors blew out and was replaced. Now it's up and running, but new respect around that panel.
Same here.
100% agree with you. We should already be taking precautions to make sure there’s no live current flowing. Even double check. Still after that I will likely wear rubber gloves if I feel like there’s a possibility I might come in contact with two leads simultaneously. Thanks for the information. Still would be cool to see a video on tool recommendations in how you set up your workbench. Cheers🎉
How about the solar panels themselves? Any risk wiring up larger 400+ watt panels outside?
These are design flaws. We already have grid-interactive systems now nearly 20 years old that protect utility/power company workers by not sending AC power back onto the grid if the grid is down but lets send random amounts of AC power out across our PV connections...🙃
@@aussie2uGA For that much power, you will need higher voltages or very thick wires. I consider 50 V or more and 1 amp or more as potentially lethal. Read and watch Prowse's book and videos. I have not detected any errors in his work. When I watch a channel and they say "Watts per hour" I stop listening to other channels. I am not qualified to say more.
@@davidb.5544 Yes, electrical workers are trained and protected - usually. However, I just read (Feb 2023) an article about all of these private solar systems and their workers and private systems connected to the AC power lines. Private installers and repair persons who might not be sufficiently trained and might not be protected. Also, when the power lines go down, some solar systems might feed solar energy into a dead line making it hot.
So some problems are emerging with this new technology.
@@aussie2uGA I cover my panels with blanket or sometimes cardboard box that came in prior to hooking up the wires if it’s sunny. You can also turn them upside down if they’re not mounted. A couple of panels I have actually have printed not to connect them when they’re producing current. The way the connectors are designed I don’t worry about shocking myself. if they were bare wires and then all of a sudden you could shock yourself when the panel is producing current. usually easy enough to cover panels when working on them.
Thank you Will, you have potentially saved lives.
That explains a situation I encountered. I was in the process of disconnecting a Growatt 3000. I didn't think i needed to disconnect the battery when I was pulling the solar wires back through the hole. when I see a spark where two of them touched. I quickly shut everything down. I haven't had an opportunity to test the growatt since then to know if the mppt survived.
I had this happen to me with me EG4 6000ex. The PV was live shocked me LOL ASKED signature Solar about it and like every other question I ever asked them they had no idea what was going on and why it would do that 👎🏼
No way!!!! :( That's not cool!!
@@WillProwse kinda shocking when it hits you
Keep the great videos coming Will live helped out tons of us Buddy 👍🏼❕❕❕🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞
Will, can you explain the best way to look for an internal short or current leak in individual solar panels? You
mentioned that two used panels had a current leak. Thanks!
Seconded
Third
You might be able to see it with a thermal camera.
I guess that's why we do lock out/tag out for whenever one works with electrical circuits. And to go along with that there should be circuit isolation breakers between the All-in-One Source and any circuit with potential for power.
Critical information for all of us, thanks!! Also, i don't see this much anymore, but if have AC and DC disconnects, in addition to fuses, and they can be locked in the disconnected position when i do work on the system.
Great information for both the novice and experienced. I hope you gave these companies a piece of your mind, even if the information is in their manuals. Unfortunately, most people don't read the entire manuals. Many people think solar panels produce low voltage. It says on the panel the max output. The shock from only one panel may hurt but won't do any real damage to a person. But when people have multiple panels connected on a roof, they're generating a lot voltage, and some pretty high amps. Thanks for the video.
I'd read the manual and not mess with equipment when plugged into the grid. Oh I remember now, some PC power or electronic products can give you a shock on its power terminals even when unplugged, likely from capacitors. The safer products include resistors to quickly drain remaining power in a device once unplugged.
I figured that out the hard way last week when reconnecting my PV input into my growatt. I now agree. Shut everything down.
I've had this problem on my Backup Power Supply. When the inverter was turned off and it was connected to the grid, touching the positive or negative of the battery + the inverter housing exposes live current. It's not dangerous, considering the amount of current seemed to be limited greatly, but you could still feel it tickling, which really surprised me in a negative way :O
Will, thank you for this video. Just got a 3000 watt 24 volt All In One and I would have been one of those guys that would have totally ignored any worries about contacting an input terminal. It would have been totally automatic for me to disregard, and I worked with 480 volt 3 phase powered machinery for 42 years, professionally. Keep up the good work, young man. The things you've accomplished has made you an inspiration and a bastion of hope for our country, at least in the eyes of this old fart!
I noticed this after connecting my EG4 3000EHV inverters to my 200v DC grid, I had the negative grounded and bonded to neutral of the AC circuits so that way I could have an easy time switching our AC/DC well pump from 200vdc to 120vac. First time I connected it up and turned it on the inverter had a short circuit error come up, I measured voltage on the PV input and saw around 180vdc on each terminal to ground. Since I knew somewhat of how inverters worked I assumed it was the DC buss voltage and since each terminal had that potential to ground I immediately figured it was the negative neutral bond I had at the transfer switch and removing that fixed it.
Later on I had another larger issue with it. I only have one string of solar panels currently, and I was wanting to connect both the inverters to the string so that instead of the voltage being converted from 200vdc to 180vdc to 48vdc then back up to 180vdc then to 120vac for running appliances directly off of PV input I wanted to cut out the 48v entirely.
I figured that I could connect both PV inputs in parallel to eliminate that. But after I turned them on sparks came from one inverter and my battery balancer circuit and then the battery breaker tripped battery BMS all shut down and other various fuses blew.
I assume that somehow the 180vdc buss got connected directly to the 48V terminals, how I have no idea. But now one inverter has a shorted out 48v terminals that I believe is a MOV that shorted out from the over voltage.
Also this was while the two inverters where in split phase configuration.
I'm wanting to replace the MOV and see if that fixes it.
Its been a mess lol
This happened to me last week when I was messing with my (wasn't thinking) and I accidentally touched the screwdriver I was using to tighten the solar leads. It was definitely an AC shock! And it was STRONG! Like, sticking your finger in an outlet strong! I was surprised! Mine is a PowMr 5000w. AC was plugged in to the wall, but I can't remember what mode it was running in.
Oh dang!! No way!
@@WillProwse Yessir! It was quite the jolt! I have also shocked myself on accident with the Solar leads (300v) and that was a much much different feeling than the one I got when I touched he screwdriver (the AC "pulsing" shock was much worse and my arm tingled for a while after). Also, i was wearing rubber shoes and thought i was insulated from the ground, but apparently not. Anyway, it is certainly something to be aware of. Here is another fun fact I found out that may be something to bring up to viewers. I had my inverter AC input plugged in to a GFCI. Then, when I plugged my furnace in to the inverter (I just have a standard 3 prong cord attached to the wire in the breaker box for now to test this before I permanently mount everything), the GFCI IMMEDIATELY trips. So something in my furnace is causing a ground-fault. (I then plugged this cord to the furnace directly into the GFCI and it also trips it without going through the inverter) I have other devices plugged in also, but they don't cause the GFCI to trip. So I think the thing to be cautious of here is that if I didn't have the inverter plugged in to a GFCI, I would have NEVER known that there is a current leak on the furnace and this could have been potentially dangerous! Now this is probably not something that is going to be the case in most people's houses (I am going to assume something is not wired properly in my old furnace). But it is something that people should be aware of. Loads that you typically would never have going through a GFCI (furnace, microwave, oven/store, water heater) could potentially cause hazards if not run through their own dedicated breaker like they would be in a standard grid-panel.
You are singlehandedly forcing these companies to up their game! I'm glad you discovered this dangerous potential and brought it to their attention.
Thanks for the PSA Will!!
EG4 3000 add solar panels and an EG4 5.1K 48V rack mounted battery turn on and 20V to casing will happen every time. Must have a ground either via AC shore in or AC output ground connected to prevent this.
Thanks Will!
Will, The depth of your knowledge coupled with your massive experience is absolutely life saving! THANK YOU so much for sharing your knowledge and experience!!!
This is insane… thanks for clearing this mess up because I was so frustrated with my first PV Combiner Box as I received a shock by simply touching an exposed point on my screwdriver that was that I removed it from my solar arrangement thinking that it was not acceptable to receive an electrical shock even though the system was grounded… However, being careful I chose to replace the combiner box only to then
receive a secondary electrical shock after once again coming in contact in contact with an input terminal in the combiner box…no more grounding ! 🎉
Prove - test - prove=safe isolation.. every electrician is taught this; i never see it done on site⚡⚡⚡ its especially dangerous with electronics because stuff sometimes happens without switching mechanisms.
Stay safe...always test
It's good you flagged this Will😇
Great advice and very simple rules to follow. Thanks!
This happened to me on my new all-in-one. It could have killed me. I had the screw driver near the PV input screws thinking it wasn't live and it went to ground on the chassis. The pop was so loud it had everyone calling out asking if I was okay. Two, 120 amp transistors had to be replaced on the unit. Good video.
I just bought the Ecoflow River Pro and I noticed some unusual grounding configurations. My AC output has a 2 wire, polarized plug. Then I saw a video were they put a 3 prong wattmeter on it and was surprised it attached. It was only then that I noticed that these big holes next to the AC socket: The item plugged into the AC output was not grounded. Ugh. The manual says the AC output must be shut off before any item is removed to avoid damage. The solar input is an XT60 and has no grounding. But next to it is a screw that they said can be used for grounding. The manual gave a couple of ambiguous sentences about using the grounding screw. The AC input uses a standard 3 wire cable. When the AC input or solar panels are used, the battery can't be turned off. I had to pull the cables off before I could shut the battery off. I thought that was very strange.
In all of the tear down channels that I watched it appeared that every solar battery was using the same printed circuit board. The only exception that I found was one solar battery had a bi-directional inverter. I had never even heard of that circuit before.
This a very new industry. It seems that all manufacturers are converting to LiFePO4 solar generators as fast as they can to get into this emerging market.
That means that every user needs to watch channels like yours. If they don't, sooner or later, someone is going to get hurt.
Ex
Because I don’t know how the MPPT works, I thought it had that voltage to compare to the panel output. I have Growatt 5Ks and assumed it was DC.I was unpleasantly surprised when working on wet ground,thinking I only had to be careful with the PV output.
If someone with an lv6548 uses a wooden frame for their array they’ll know exactly what you’re talking about. The solar panels will shock the crap out of you. It’s a stray current coming from the pv. Once they are earth grounded there isn’t an issue. I’ve seen people that have the sungold model with the same problem. With a metal array it’s naturally grounded and you’d never know.
Can you explain how this would happen? How could the panels shock you by touching them and not the + or - wires?
@@stevepriority4219 I plan on testing this in the next few weeks. So it isn’t leakage from the panels themselves because when the inverters are off there wasn’t any current. So in answer to your question, I have no idea. But I’ve talked with others that had the same issue I did. And again, most people don’t use wooden arrays so they wouldn’t ever know. It would make an interesting video for testing though. So I’ll try to put it on my list to make one.
another good video about an issue I didn't know existed.
grounding your PV panels turns them into a lightning rod.
thank you for this Will.
You;re a good dude, Will. Thank you for sharing this, you probably saved somebody's life
Closest I'm getting to AC are the plugs coming out of an inverter. There are electricians, then there's me. Like Clint Eastwood said, "A man's got to know his limitations."
I got a bit of a shock one day tightening up the screws on a PV breaker and started investigating this thinking this is pretty weird where did that come from , and found 190Vac on both sides of a PV input on a mpp solar 6048MT ( voltronic ) between the earth and PV inputs , problem is in Australia its regulation to have your PV array grounded and i found some leakage to the frames when my solar panels are wet, enough that you can get a decent shock from them to ground if they are not grounded . The reason they warn about grounding is because it will actually blow the IGBT transistors in the inverter if current flows from the PV inputs to ground so there is current there if it can blow your meter that's a 10Amp fuse , take a scenario where these panels are mounted on the metal roof of an RV and that 190VAC then goes to the frame of the caravan when the panels are wet someone stepping into the RV one foot on the ground one on the steel step going into the RV at 190V AC potential then gets a nasty surprise between the legs and that is where a lot of these all in one inverters are used . i read a story about someone that had this problem and before they discovered it they could not understand why their dog would refuse to go into the caravan to latter find out he was getting a shock every time he stepped in . Its potentially lethal if you get a shock while on the roof cleaning panels standing on a metal ladder could causing you to fall also , its just so dangerous and as you say if its a stand alone solar charge controller going to the battery that voltage potential is not there, it is caused by the inverter design not isolating the PV charge controller so they can make the unit a few dollars cheaper with a couple less IGBT transistors and they have known about this for years with no regard for the people that may be injured or killed they tell people that its phantom voltages or inducted voltages but that is simply not true as induced voltages dont have current , it certainly does not need to be that way you can have a isolated charge controller very easily and in some earlier models that is exactly what they had so they had no AC on the PV inputs. It just blows my mind when engineers cut corners on a design that has potentially lethal consequences , glad you made this video , keep up the great work love your channel.
Thanks Will. This is very important info.
You should do a review on the Midnite Solar, DIY line. Currently running the 3K and am very satisfied!
Good vid Will. They could fit a micro switch to the front cover, so if it is removed it turns off the inverter before you even pull out the monitoring cable.
Great job on the video Will! Thanks for making it.
Such a privilege to be the first person to comment! Great stuff as usual!
Got shocked from growatt 5000. Everything was off except battery. Touched pv input and the casing with other hand. Lesson learned.
Greatly appreciated because these all in ones is what I'm going to go with. So happy you pointed this out.
I have always thought of how safe these are. This is a good reminder to still be careful! Thanks again 🩵
I of course always operate as if all lines are hot, even when I have everything disconnected.
I read that in the manual, and I got concerned about it, but followed to a tee, and have no issues.
I have yet to configure the setup for ac input, so I will check everything when that step is made.
Thanks for alerting us Will!
Grounded solar panels means tying negative to frames of panels/racking/combiner box case. NOT earth grounding! Please watch my older videos where we cover this a lot.
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Amazing information. Does the EcoFlow Delta Pro have of these concerns?
I thought this was obvious when you said "people with ground mount solar array".
just tried to find a video about the frames earth grounding, but I can't find it. Have you ever made a video in this topic? I mean, what happens if something is wrong.. Last weekend I was DC shocked when I checked the contacts in the fuse box. I tested then with a multimeter, there is hundreds of Volts between DC poles and GND, as I remember there was 250VDC on PV+ to GND and -150VDC on PV- to GND. Would this normal or should I check the earth grounding of the panels? I was terrified, DC on this voltage is not funny anymore, even if I never had problem with a 230VAC schock, I tried more times :D But IMO there shouldn't be any voltage between GND and any PVDC pole.
Thanks Will, If I open the cabinet, I'd use either a voltage detection pen or multiple meter DC for solar plug connectors and AC for (240v Australian) hoping to see 0.00
🌏🪛
(lol, Australians without electrical licenses shouldn't talk about doing AC work - not even asking questions on forums - ask a sparky friend - to help (pay for advice if must's be) - having a laugh, sorry - but true.
when "changing a light bulb" act as if everything is deadly - take precautions to prevent the death bit (or fire).
Non contact voltage detector pens are not 100% safe at detecting live voltage. They work on capacitance. Multi meters are better but no guarantee that they are working so you could assume it’s dead and still have live potential. Safe isolation testers are not much when compared to not having them and getting a lethal shock. Proving unit + tester, test live to earth, live to neutral, neutral to earth and then back to the proving unit again.
@@davideyres955 - and if one doesn't know what the heck it all means, ask for help, lol...
This is good information, thank you
Good Points! *Note Another Thing I Found That Is A Stupid Design? On EG4 6500 EX + Most Other Brands, That Cage Around The AC In & AC Out Terminals Is Made Of Aluminum-Metal? Whereas I Think It Should Be Made Of A Non-Conductive Material... I Installed A 4x Parallel-Split Phase System, We Were Having Problems With Low AC Outputs? Signature Solar Techs Wanted Photos Of Inverters Outputs Showing Meter Readings w/Front Panels Removed... When I Was Sticking My Meter Probes In To The Screw Connections On AC Input, The Probe Tip Shorted Between The Hot In & "Metal Cage" This Made One Hell-Of-A Arc Welder Type Flash About 1-2 Feet In Front Of My Face & Also Made My Butt-Pucker Severely Momentarily! Now I Know Your Supposed To Turn Off All Powers 1st, Butt When Your Tryin To Trouble-Shoot+ Diagnose The MANY Stupid Problems On These Pc-O-Shit AIO-Inverters That's Not Always Possible To Adhere To Advice! Thanks 😁😎
Thank you very much! So glad you found this out. I was going to ground my arrays this spring.
You DO want to earth ground your arrays, always. Read the Comments and replys above for more info.
The same exact issue I had with one off amazon which I returned, I am glad you actually got to it.
I’ve always installed breakers on either side of every piece of equipment so that anything can be isolated from the system, and removed/replaced.
BUT I can still find potentials on and across earth grounds even when the “live/hot” lines are mechanically cut!
Don’t count on anything.
Work everything cold.
DONT FORGET CAPACITORS HOLD A CHARGE LONG AFTER POWER IS TURNED OFF/REMOVED!
My growatt lvm 48 3000 es has grounding from the negative PV terminal to the frame of the inverter.
Thank you will I continue to improve and learn from you thank you for sharing this with us six stars
Will, I just watched another video of yours, warning not to ground the the all in one inverter/charger, so as not to create a potential ground loop. The system will get it's ground from the AC input, which is completely understandable. Where I'm confused is on grounding on the panel frames, in case you have panel leakage occur. Does this not still create the potential for a ground loop if I have a ground rod for my panel frames only? Thank you son much for all of your wonderful videos and products.
Can you hook up a big solar array to your eg4 inverters and show us how to do it properly it says don't ground your panels but yet it say you need a surge protection which is grounded so a little confusing
Thank you Will Prowse this is great information i also currently got a huge shock on my Hybrid inverter 5KVA Felicity solar panels when i was cleaning them on the roof from dust when it was on, i really wondered where it came from i was so soon rushing to ground then but, i didn't bcz i thought it would create more disaster thank you plz for that advice✌️😊 hope next time i will power off every thing when cleaning the pannels and turning off the panel isolator.
You definitely want to connect the frames of your solar array to an earth ground rod. I had the same problem. See my reply to a person's Comment above for more info.
@@Tumbleweed5150 but isn't the info in this video to not ground the panels?
Thank you!
Great video. Please add this test step into your review.
On my all in one 5500W inverter, 80A charger, 6kW / 500V max PV input, i was surprised to have 21V at the Mppt input without any pv connected.... all connected and everything run fine for 3 months now.
That's scary ... keep us safe Will
Really good one!!! Thank you sir
Will, thanks for the important safety info: The life you save, could be my own. Really appreciate it. Now where is that meter...?
Exactly why I never plan to connect ac input ever. There’s no confirmation from anywhere whether to ground the solar panels. I’ve an SRNE 150 volts PV max. 6 panels 9 amps each. Dc disconnect and breakers. This just makes the topic even more confusing. I’ve watched every WPro video that I can find but no idea which one where explains how and when to ground the SRNE box or panels or combiner box. WP video about no ground in the ac out video where WP didn’t know if the box neutral and ground are together inside or not?
I was looking for a video on whether more solar panels with say 100 watts per panel would be better than fewer panels with higher watts per panel. what are the pro's and cons?
I think that there are physical limits on how big a solar panel can be made. Monocrystalline cells dominate the market currently. That means every cell is a single crystal. Panels are expensive and they do eventually fail in various ways. So this will affect how big they can be.
You may want to verify your voltage readings with a LoZ voltmeter so you can rule out any "ghost" voltages. (I know your ammeter test proved there was an issue with that model, but I'm not sure if an ammeter was used on all the others.)
Yes absolutely
Thanks Will. Should I run an earth ground to the breaker panel or leave it ungrounded?? Looking forward to more videos.
Always earth ground any breaker box, as well as any metal box/panel in an electrical system. Also make sure there are NO inputs live when opening and working in an all-in one or breaker box.
I love your videos. ❤
It is true, my eg4 6500 shorted out. Should have had it disconnected from the battery while working on pv disconnect. Didn't get shocked,but it's damaged. Hope signature solar can fix it.
Thanks for sharing. Informative for all of us.
Great info as always. Possible video Idea - shock hazard mitigation for beginners
I can’t believe I have just seen this now. I wish this video was made a week ago. I had just about finished my install of a 6kw all in one. Had battery connected and AC on. I had three of the four string wires connected to the dc isolators. When I was on to the last, I plugged in the mc4 to gauge the exact length to cut the cable to fit into the isolator. The other end of the cable touched off a copper heating pipe and bang!!!! I did a lot of damage inside the inverter with many blown mosfets. I know I should have had all off when working on it but I didn’t think the mc4 string inputs would be live! Rather not say the manufacturer at this point. I feel very foolish indeed.
Yeah I had no idea and I work with these every single day. I can't believe that happened to you and yes completely unexpected. I wish I found this years ago when I got my first units. That's awful your units blew the MOSFETs. Dang it!
I had a very similar experience with my first lvx6048. was putting the pv input wires into plastic conduit, and one of them touched a metal disconnect box and blew out 3 mosfets. Ended up having to change out every board inside to get it working again, as well as my daly bms as it wasn't able to output more then a few amps anymore, and got hot while charging.
Nothing to feel foolish about. These oversights by the industry and poor manuals are causing many problems for users.
ALWAYS make all connections with all switches off, (and EVERY input switched, both on positive and negative wires for DC, and all input AC breakers off).
Good topic
even when everything is powered down... there "could" be huge potential in the capacitors inside... those actually need to be drained as well.
They actually self discharge in a few seconds luckily. But yes the caps can shock for sure
Will, please do a review on the Samlex EVO line, I love your reviews and would appreciate your input! There are very few reviews on the EVO line, and most of them are not abundant in information.
I didn't know about this, thanx Will
Awesome video. I got shocked by touching the solar panel frames. After much investigating and watching your video I discover that I have about 50.3 volts coming out of the PV connector (supposedly an input only connector). The voltage is going up the PV cable wires to the panels and into the metal frames. So now my question is what is the fix. This is not acceptable and like you said the potential for a disaster is there.
If I ground my solar panel frames on the roof I wont get shocked but Am I loosing power because the 50V going up the wire and grounded is draining the Batteries while doing nothing? Any potential Fix. Please Help
i always disconnect all power when wiring the inverter. On some models there is a high risk to make a short circuit between PV+/PV- and GND, when you have an unisolated screwdriver. You will damage the inverter by doing so.
Good job, thank you. 👍🐝🌞
You are at almost 1 million volts ⚡️ subscribers 😄 going to be a shocking experience ⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️😄
So crazy haha I can't believe it
@@WillProwse I can believe your success: no video leaders, no jokes, you explain well, and you know what you are talking about.
@@edwardlulofs444 yes he keeps it real and helps other company make better products...
I don't like (or use) non isolated hi freq inverters in our installed off grid solar systems! We prefer lo freq isolated inverters along with a good mppt charge controller. We never have a problem with stray voltage or bonding issues. The inverter we use is a XW 6048
Thanks for the info. So when you say don't ground solar array - can I ground the solar panel mounting/frames and the metal roof it is on?
I am completely off grid, would be grounding to the same grounding rod I have set for the main panel.
Neutral / grounding screw removed from my lvx 6048, neutral and ground linked at the main panel only.
thank god...Not a problem on my Deye hybrid inverter 🤗
My Growatt shuts down if it detects a ground on the PV system. I have had 2 panels ground after a heavy rain. They are out of the system now. I'm a locomotive electrician. 3+MW generators. There is nothing grounded on those systems. The only thing grounded is the starting circuit. Don't be fooled by thinking 48v won't hurt you. I've been lit up with 36volts. Work 1 handed. Never use both hands to do anything.
Back-feeding current to the PV circuit could help propagate fires if there's a fault on the DC
What do you mean by leakage? Do some PVs leak between their conductors & the surrounding metal framework?
Thanks.
Yes They do. On disconnected PV panel Measure resistance between negative and frame and later between positive and frame. If it is lower than infinite you have potential leakage.
Thank you for keeping us safe. I just bought the EG4 3000EHV, curious to know if you determined a status on the same?
Can you get your hands on aluminum graphene batteries for testing really interested in how good these are
Working with electricity is like handling guns. Always assume they are loaded until verified.
Yes and everytime you're working on it, always check it constantly. Couple of times I've been working on a circuit in a building site and some other worker decides to turn the power on while I'm working 😂