I was drinking an "oh, my word" when the episode dropped. Equal parts maraschino, Montenegro, gin, green char. A dash of orange bitters if you do 25 ml parts, scale up accordingly
@@aenamabag I gave the recommend spec but used averna because I was out of Montenegro. It's nice but super desserty, maybe just do a tiny one as a nightcap
I love Chartreuse and can drink it straight or on the rocks. The Last Word and Final Ward are both great cocktails. I agree Bourbon and Scotch are probably too sweet for a Final Ward variation UNLESS you are using a drier and peatier whisky like Lagavulin. Then it works great. 👍 I would also recommend the Division Bell which subs in one part of smoky Mezcal as the liquor base instead of Gin in the Last Word formula. Totally agree it's a classic formula that stands the test of time and so easy to play with to create custom variations. As well as changing the base liquor, I have also subbed in Amaro for the Chartreuse and different fruit liqueurs and distillates in for the Kirsch.
Mmmm Chartreuse. I was one of the bartenders who proposed the shots of Chartreuse. lol Sadly only a few of us at my bar liked it. It's one of my favorites. Now I'll be going to pick up a bottle. Last words are also great with the gin subbed for mezcal.
I couldn't decide which variation to make, so I made both. For my taste, the Last Word was far superior as I much prefer gin to whiskey. This also gave me an opportunity to crack open my first jar of Luxardo cherries. I'm new to cocktail culture and this channel, among others, had inspired me. Thanks.
Best Mezcal and Chartreuse cocktail is the Lawn Dart in my opinion. It calls for Tequilla but sub in Mezcal instead and muddle two slices of Jalapeño instead of green pepper for a slight bite at the end and you have a true masterpiece of a cocktail.
So glad this video just popped on my phone! Definitely a Last word lover, I didn’t know about the Final Ward at all…guess I’ll have to try quickly 🤩 Oh, by the way, I’m just 100 km away from Chartreuse production site 😍 Thanks again Cara and your team for your excellent work on presenting and explaining cocktails! 👏🏻
You can never go wrong with a drink from Murray Stenson, no matter what drink you order. Tracking down where he might be working was always an interesting challenge in the last decade.
Great video! My favorite cocktail containing Green Chartreuse: Bijou- first seen in "Harry Johnson's Bartender's Manual in 1990 Gin / Green Chartreuse/ Sweet Vermouth/ (in equal parts, stirred in ice, served in a coup) a dash of orange bitters and an orange twist
Me and my dad did shots of Yellow Chartreuse recently, I saw it sitting on a shelf in a bar and he said "Hey, let's go for it!" From what I heard of Green Chartreuse I thought it would get us fucked up hahah but I was pleasantly surprised to see how palatable it was, I could totally sip it on the rocks, perhaps with some pineapple or lemon juice.
A friend from Grenoble introduced me to this magical liquor and I fell in love with it! I drink it neat and iced from the freezer, now I'm curious try this cocktail. A small note: Maraschino is pronounced with an hard "c" (like "maraskino"), since it comes from the "marasca" cherry. You pronounce all the Italian amari and vermouth so well, so I thought it could be good to share it!
Two things: First, I love what you’ve done since going “pro”. There’s definitely a difference in the production. Second, thank you for sharing this recipe. I had never tried chartreuse and I was not a fan of Luxardo. However, like you said, the sum is greater than the parts. This is a delicious cocktail. You are a rockstar!
Chartreuse is an amazing ingredient in cocktails but my favorite is pairing it with tequila. I had a margarita at El Niño Viejo in Barcelona that blew my mind. Now it's my go to. I helped develop a cocktail menu in my home town and we have two Chartreuse based drinks on the menu, a mule and the margarita. Sipping some now. Love your channel.
I love what Chartreuse can bring to a cocktail, and can also enjoy it neat on occasion. My favorite Last Word variation substitutes gin with cognac (find a not overly sweet cognac) and lime with lemon. I think it works great, as long as the cognac is not overly sweet.
I’m really looking forward to trying these! My dad was a member of the Detroit Athletic Club and I spent a lot of time there too, so it’s fascinating to learn a bit of cocktail history is from the DAC.
read only 2 monks know the full recipe, wow! monastery spirits cocktails would be a great series (Benedictine comes to mind) Thanks again for the superb content
I don’t have any Chartreuse. My two herbal liqueurs are Jagermeister & Benedictine, so I tried a “Mr Potato Head” variant by subbing in the Jager for Chartreuse. It was OK. Too much funk from the Maraschino for my tastes, but drinkable. I’m not sure if this cocktail has a name, but it was a fun experiment! I always enjoy your videos Cara, so it’s good to see you growing the channel.
I love the contrast between the green and yellow drinks at the end! Unfortunately I can’t quite justify buying a bottle of yellow Chartreuse on top of the green one I’ve already got, but will definitely give The Final Ward a go!
There are s many old and new variants to try. Here are some of them: Naked and Famous (2,5 cl Mezcal, 2,5 cl Yellow Chartreuse, 2,5cl Aperol, 2,5cl Lime Juice), Vauvert Slim (3cl Green Chartreuse, 6cl Grapefruit Juice, 1,5 cl Lime Juice, 1 Egg White, 6 Mint Leaves), Golden Retriever (3cl White Rum, 3cl Green Chartreuse, 3cl Licor 43), Alaska Cocktail (5,5cl Gin, 0,8cl Chartreuse MOFS, 0,2 cl Orange Bitters) and many more.
Indepth and Interesting, Cara!! Thank you! On another note, can't say I've noticed the bottle back there before, but I too have a bottle of Tequila Clase Azul. It's fun to tap the bell with your ring! 😄🙃
This sounds interesting. I’ve had Chartreuse in the Verte Chaud as a winter warmer, so I’ll give it a try. Malört Is another love it or hate it liqueur, if you’ve got a cocktail with it. 🍸
Great drinks! Great video, Cara! Chartreuse is really hard to get right now. I managed to find a single green bottle at bevmo and a small yellow one at a locally owned liquor store.
I love hearing about Murray Stenson encounters! I was lucky enough to walk into Canon in Seattle when he was at the bar and it was a benchmark experience for me. He asked me what kind of drinks I liked, and I was pretty deep into Manhattan territory at the time, and he said "Let me make you a Liberal". I told him "You're too late man..." but what he served up was fantastic. The Last Word is one of our favorites, thanks for covering it! I had to make my wife one after your video. :)
Never had a Liberal, but Michael Madrusan's Blue Collar Cocktail, which is a mix-up of the Brooklyn and the Liberal, is one of my favourite cocktails of all time
Ah Canon, best cocktail bar on the west coast & Mecca for Chartreuse nerds…I once ordered a vintage 1972 Tarragona green for a big birthday that will surely go down as the most expensive drink I’ve ever had!
Chartreuse is probably the most glorious liqueur I've ever tasted, but a bottle comes quite out of budget (slightly less expensive than one of champagne) and I don't remember seeing it in bars around here. Still, it's within my recommendarions and certainly the perfect choice if one needs to toast AMDG.
I'm shocked and embarrassed to admit I've never heard of Chartreuse in my half-century of life, so this was one of those videos that was a true, 100% education. I love cocktails that have the same proportions of ingredients (one part this, one part that, one part that...). So I'll have to try this one, since I have gin and I have Luxardo liquor (purchased for your Aviation cocktail recipe). I hope Chartreuse is available in smaller bottles. I'm sure my Elijah Craig Rye will work just fine for the second recipe - I'm not buying another Rye just for this one:).
Oh this was really interesting, thank you. It was good to realise through what you shared that the chartreuse I have is the vegetal (in the little wooden case). I wonder what that's closer to in flavour - the green, yellow or VEP?
If I'm feeling fancy & flush with cash (as it's spendy for a cocktail at a bar), an End of the Road can make a good nightcap: Laphroaig, Green Chartreuse, Campari.
I have always been told to make martinis like you can ice skate on them. Like I shake vigorously about 25 times then don't strain leaving the tiny ice shards on top. For gin and bourbon I stir. I'm curious if you commonly double strain martinis and why?
Hi Jenny! I usually stir my Martini to keep a nice viscous texture - the general rule of thumb is to stir all booze drinks and shake anything with juice etc. That said, an ice rink martini sounds fun!
Not a huge fan of Chartreuse, but I did just pick up a bottle of Verveine du Velay Pagès (out of nostalgia for a trip to the Auvergne ages ago), which is another herbal concoction at 50% ABV. Have you ever tried it (either on its own or as an ingredient)? If so, what did you think?
Waaaaait a second…you’re saying the traditional Final Ward recipe is made with green and not yellow Chartreuse?! Every spec I’ve seen lists as yellow but…
Look I didn’t speak to Phil Ward directly so I’m open to being wrong here but all the recipes from reputable sites (Difford’s Guide etc) had green and this article where they spoke to him directly makes it seem like it was just the whisky and lemon that were the changes: australianbartender.com.au/2018/03/27/final-ward-recipe/
It’s definitely a fair point and vodka would be a good backbone to let the chartreuse shine but I do think the juniper spice pairs well with the aniseed of the Chartreuse to create a more dynamic cocktail
Chartreuse and drinks with chartreuse don't exist to me. The hype ruined being able to feasibly obtain the shit altogether. So it doesn't exist bc of you hypers.
This seems like odd logic to me…so people shouldn’t drink things in case they run out? These are both classic cocktails using it. I’m not even a massive Chartreuse fan but they show a good way to use an intense herbal flavour in drinks 😊
And knowing is half the battle!
Love your "And now you know."
I was drinking an "oh, my word" when the episode dropped. Equal parts maraschino, Montenegro, gin, green char. A dash of orange bitters if you do 25 ml parts, scale up accordingly
how does the Chartreuse pair with the Montenegro? I would have imagined they would clash, and also produce quite a strange colour.
@@aenamabag I gave the recommend spec but used averna because I was out of Montenegro. It's nice but super desserty, maybe just do a tiny one as a nightcap
@@TheCronedoggy I guess I’ll try both ways.
I haven’t heard of this one, excited to try!
@@BehindtheBar you've introduced me to many great drinks, happy to return the favor
Half way through my Last Word...yep it's a nice drink! Thanks Cara.
I love Chartreuse and can drink it straight or on the rocks. The Last Word and Final Ward are both great cocktails. I agree Bourbon and Scotch are probably too sweet for a Final Ward variation UNLESS you are using a drier and peatier whisky like Lagavulin. Then it works great. 👍 I would also recommend the Division Bell which subs in one part of smoky Mezcal as the liquor base instead of Gin in the Last Word formula. Totally agree it's a classic formula that stands the test of time and so easy to play with to create custom variations. As well as changing the base liquor, I have also subbed in Amaro for the Chartreuse and different fruit liqueurs and distillates in for the Kirsch.
Is that a bottle of Blanton’s gold behind you? Fancy! 🤩
It is! It’s at Anada, our sister restaurant.
Mmmm Chartreuse. I was one of the bartenders who proposed the shots of Chartreuse. lol Sadly only a few of us at my bar liked it. It's one of my favorites. Now I'll be going to pick up a bottle. Last words are also great with the gin subbed for mezcal.
"Chartreuse! The only liquor so good they named a color after it"
I like the yellow with benedictine is a Monte Cassino. A nice trio of alternatives.
My favourite variation is the Last Flight - really a Final Ward meets Paper Plane - equal parts Bourbon, Aperol, Lemon and Chartreuse. Delicious!
this was a great vid on the comparison between the 2 drinks....THX
I couldn't decide which variation to make, so I made both. For my taste, the Last Word was far superior as I much prefer gin to whiskey. This also gave me an opportunity to crack open my first jar of Luxardo cherries. I'm new to cocktail culture and this channel, among others, had inspired me. Thanks.
I coincidentally just picked up a yellow at my local independent bottle shop. Rarely see it in stores. Green is fantastic stuff!
Love chartreuse so much. Also a Mezcal Last Word is even better than the regular one.
I had a woman in the other night ordering these #respect
Best Mezcal and Chartreuse cocktail is the Lawn Dart in my opinion. It calls for Tequilla but sub in Mezcal instead and muddle two slices of Jalapeño instead of green pepper for a slight bite at the end and you have a true masterpiece of a cocktail.
I think this may be my favourite episode to date ! Awesome!
So glad this video just popped on my phone! Definitely a Last word lover, I didn’t know about the Final Ward at all…guess I’ll have to try quickly 🤩
Oh, by the way, I’m just 100 km away from Chartreuse production site 😍
Thanks again Cara and your team for your excellent work on presenting and explaining cocktails! 👏🏻
yellow chartreuse for the win with the ward. honey maceration, lemon, and oak-aged spirit make more sense in my mind as well. brilliant and thank you
You can never go wrong with a drink from Murray Stenson, no matter what drink you order. Tracking down where he might be working was always an interesting challenge in the last decade.
Ted Saucier's Bottoms Up! is a fun book just to peruse with its sexy, old-school illustrations.
Great video! My favorite cocktail containing Green Chartreuse: Bijou- first seen in "Harry Johnson's Bartender's Manual in 1990
Gin / Green Chartreuse/ Sweet Vermouth/ (in equal parts, stirred in ice, served in a coup) a dash of orange bitters and an orange twist
Me and my dad did shots of Yellow Chartreuse recently, I saw it sitting on a shelf in a bar and he said "Hey, let's go for it!" From what I heard of Green Chartreuse I thought it would get us fucked up hahah but I was pleasantly surprised to see how palatable it was, I could totally sip it on the rocks, perhaps with some pineapple or lemon juice.
The yellow isn’t as high abv either!
Another great Last Word variation is the Lumierre. Sub Maraschino for St Germaine
A friend from Grenoble introduced me to this magical liquor and I fell in love with it! I drink it neat and iced from the freezer, now I'm curious try this cocktail.
A small note: Maraschino is pronounced with an hard "c" (like "maraskino"), since it comes from the "marasca" cherry. You pronounce all the Italian amari and vermouth so well, so I thought it could be good to share it!
Thanks pal, noted!
Two things:
First, I love what you’ve done since going “pro”. There’s definitely a difference in the production.
Second, thank you for sharing this recipe. I had never tried chartreuse and I was not a fan of Luxardo. However, like you said, the sum is greater than the parts. This is a delicious cocktail.
You are a rockstar!
Thanks pal the team will live to hear it!
Chartreuse is an amazing ingredient in cocktails but my favorite is pairing it with tequila. I had a margarita at El Niño Viejo in Barcelona that blew my mind. Now it's my go to. I helped develop a cocktail menu in my home town and we have two Chartreuse based drinks on the menu, a mule and the margarita. Sipping some now. Love your channel.
13:13 That cheesy self satisfying smile you have to make when the crew don't laugh at your jokes 🤣🤣🤣
Haha I’m actually very awkward and cheesy so spilled over for a sec there!
I love what Chartreuse can bring to a cocktail, and can also enjoy it neat on occasion. My favorite Last Word variation substitutes gin with cognac (find a not overly sweet cognac) and lime with lemon. I think it works great, as long as the cognac is not overly sweet.
It felt like you really had fun with this one! I'm excited to try these.
Congratulations on the book in progress! Much deserved. Can't wait to be able to buy it!
Thanks pal! It’s so exciting 😃
So excited for your book!! And looking forward to making a Chartreuse cocktail. 😋
I think you’re bang on about the Yellow Chartreuse and Final ward. If rumors serve right Yellow Charteuse has honey so honey+lemon+whiskey=excellence
I’m really looking forward to trying these! My dad was a member of the Detroit Athletic Club and I spent a lot of time there too, so it’s fascinating to learn a bit of cocktail history is from the DAC.
This Orange top looks super!! Great energy!
read only 2 monks know the full recipe, wow! monastery spirits cocktails would be a great series (Benedictine comes to mind) Thanks again for the superb content
I don’t have any Chartreuse. My two herbal liqueurs are Jagermeister & Benedictine, so I tried a “Mr Potato Head” variant by subbing in the Jager for Chartreuse. It was OK. Too much funk from the Maraschino for my tastes, but drinkable. I’m not sure if this cocktail has a name, but it was a fun experiment! I always enjoy your videos Cara, so it’s good to see you growing the channel.
Bit the bullet and got a bottle, quite pricey…like $60…but I have to agree… it really does add a new dimension. Last word, …quite lovely.
It’s so often used as more of an accent the bottle should last you a while as well 😊
I made it. I love it.
Yay!
You are thinking about the Monte Cassino, which is another riff of the Last Word and has Yellow Chartreusse and lemon :)
Aaaah thank you hahaha
Maraskino, maraskino, maraskino please
I know it doesn't make any sense at all, but Chartreuse in coffee with cream and a splash of bourbon is amazing.
How does one discover this combination? Pure accident, I suppose? Lol
Haha ‘my bottle of Chartreuse fell into my coffee this morning boss, I promise!’
I love the contrast between the green and yellow drinks at the end! Unfortunately I can’t quite justify buying a bottle of yellow Chartreuse on top of the green one I’ve already got, but will definitely give The Final Ward a go!
Totally fair haha
Chartreuse is 1949 Cadillac convertible!
Skillshare needs to hire you to do cocktail classes!
There are s many old and new variants to try. Here are some of them: Naked and Famous (2,5 cl Mezcal, 2,5 cl Yellow Chartreuse, 2,5cl Aperol, 2,5cl Lime Juice), Vauvert Slim (3cl Green Chartreuse, 6cl Grapefruit Juice, 1,5 cl Lime Juice, 1 Egg White, 6 Mint Leaves), Golden Retriever (3cl White Rum, 3cl Green Chartreuse, 3cl Licor 43), Alaska Cocktail (5,5cl Gin, 0,8cl Chartreuse MOFS, 0,2 cl Orange Bitters) and many more.
Indepth and Interesting, Cara!! Thank you! On another note, can't say I've noticed the bottle back there before, but I too have a bottle of Tequila Clase Azul. It's fun to tap the bell with your ring! 😄🙃
Haha well Gina I just got a new very special ring ( 😉 💍) so I’ll have to give it a go
@@BehindtheBar Woot, congrats, Cara!!
@@BehindtheBar well well, right on time, Cara! Congratulations dear!!! 🎊 💍💜🛎🎉
This sounds interesting. I’ve had Chartreuse in the Verte Chaud as a winter warmer, so I’ll give it a try. Malört Is another love it or hate it liqueur, if you’ve got a cocktail with it. 🍸
Great drinks! Great video, Cara! Chartreuse is really hard to get right now. I managed to find a single green bottle at bevmo and a small yellow one at a locally owned liquor store.
I've only had the green one neat & I loved it. So never had it any other way. It's tough to find by me & price varies.
It’s true, can be somewhat elusive!
I love hearing about Murray Stenson encounters! I was lucky enough to walk into Canon in Seattle when he was at the bar and it was a benchmark experience for me. He asked me what kind of drinks I liked, and I was pretty deep into Manhattan territory at the time, and he said "Let me make you a Liberal". I told him "You're too late man..." but what he served up was fantastic.
The Last Word is one of our favorites, thanks for covering it! I had to make my wife one after your video. :)
Haha I’m sure he’s a stickler for ‘never discuss politics over the bar’!
Never had a Liberal, but Michael Madrusan's Blue Collar Cocktail, which is a mix-up of the Brooklyn and the Liberal, is one of my favourite cocktails of all time
Ah Canon, best cocktail bar on the west coast & Mecca for Chartreuse nerds…I once ordered a vintage 1972 Tarragona green for a big birthday that will surely go down as the most expensive drink I’ve ever had!
Chartreuse is probably the most glorious liqueur I've ever tasted, but a bottle comes quite out of budget (slightly less expensive than one of champagne) and I don't remember seeing it in bars around here.
Still, it's within my recommendarions and certainly the perfect choice if one needs to toast AMDG.
I recently tried my first Final Ward and thought it was too sweet. Turns out I made it wrong. Gonna have to try it again with rye!
I'm shocked and embarrassed to admit I've never heard of Chartreuse in my half-century of life, so this was one of those videos that was a true, 100% education. I love cocktails that have the same proportions of ingredients (one part this, one part that, one part that...). So I'll have to try this one, since I have gin and I have Luxardo liquor (purchased for your Aviation cocktail recipe). I hope Chartreuse is available in smaller bottles. I'm sure my Elijah Craig Rye will work just fine for the second recipe - I'm not buying another Rye just for this one:).
100% Elijah Craig will work! Not sure about smaller Chartreuse bottles but maybe you could go halfs with a cocktail loving friend?
idk about other countries but they have half size bottles in the US
Oh this was really interesting, thank you. It was good to realise through what you shared that the chartreuse I have is the vegetal (in the little wooden case). I wonder what that's closer to in flavour - the green, yellow or VEP?
Aaah yeah I know the guy but I haven’t seen one in a while - I’ll get back to you on this!
If I'm feeling fancy & flush with cash (as it's spendy for a cocktail at a bar), an End of the Road can make a good nightcap: Laphroaig, Green Chartreuse, Campari.
I haven’t tried this! It sounds intense, will have to give it a go
Now I wish I'd known about the Final Word before coming in for a Last Word the other day! I'll have to come in for a comparison ☺️
PS: where do you source Woodford Rye from? Never seen it before in Melbourne
Haha! Thanks so much for coming in pal 😊. I just get it through our wholesalers, not too much digging!
Shots of Chartreuse? That sounds like Nuevo-Riche Jagermeister.
😂
We’re bartenders mate, ball on a budget 😉
Nice to know about both the drinks, I am always fascinated about Chartreuse and longing to try it. Unfortunately unavailable here.
Oh no! Where do you live? If I ever visit I’ll smuggle some!
@Behind the Bar 😀😀 I live in India, thank you.
I have always been told to make martinis like you can ice skate on them. Like I shake vigorously about 25 times then don't strain leaving the tiny ice shards on top. For gin and bourbon I stir. I'm curious if you commonly double strain martinis and why?
Hi Jenny! I usually stir my Martini to keep a nice viscous texture - the general rule of thumb is to stir all booze drinks and shake anything with juice etc. That said, an ice rink martini sounds fun!
Loved the video! Do you know when the Australia's Cocktail for the Home Bartender book will be back in-stock?
I actually don’t, I’ve reached out to them to see if it will be and will let you know!
Not a huge fan of Chartreuse, but I did just pick up a bottle of Verveine du Velay Pagès (out of nostalgia for a trip to the Auvergne ages ago), which is another herbal concoction at 50% ABV. Have you ever tried it (either on its own or as an ingredient)? If so, what did you think?
Ooh no I haven’t, excited to hear how you go with it!
Those monks and their "medicine"
Maraschino is pronounced as "maraskino" in italian
How much better would the last word taste if you used the V.E.P Chartreuse instead of the regular one? Would it be worth the switch?
Look, honestly, I wouldn’t go out of my way to source V.E.P just to level up but it’s always going to add complexity and intensity which is fun!
If you have the cash! V.E.P. is the most expensive bottle I own. It'll be $200 a bottle by 2023.
What about the Chartreuse 1605 ?
Hey Cara ! here in Brazil it is practically impossible to find or buy a Chartreuse, unfortunately.
Oh no! If I ever come visit I’ll smuggle some 😉
11:42 * ffPOP * also, we gonna talk about boomsma cloosterbitter? worth a damn or nah?
You’re writing a book?? I’ll take one please 🤟
Thanks so much pal I’m honestly so excited!
The industry sour is a great chartreuse cocktail to try, any opinions on it?
It’s true, but true to its origin story it’s very much a drink for folks who have pushed their palates to the extreme! See also: the Death Flip haha
@@BehindtheBar not familiar with that, I'll have to look it up, thanks for the reply, you have a fan in Seattle
Who takes shots of this stuff?
Bartenders!
should have also done the "Closing Argument" same thig with tequila
Next time!
Waaaaait a second…you’re saying the traditional Final Ward recipe is made with green and not yellow Chartreuse?! Every spec I’ve seen lists as yellow but…
Look I didn’t speak to Phil Ward directly so I’m open to being wrong here but all the recipes from reputable sites (Difford’s Guide etc) had green and this article where they spoke to him directly makes it seem like it was just the whisky and lemon that were the changes:
australianbartender.com.au/2018/03/27/final-ward-recipe/
try with a vodka?
You could!
If the herbs complete, why not vodka instead of gin? 🤭
Agreed! Swapping vodka for gin makes the Aviation more palatable for my wife. I suspect it would do the same here.
Because vodka sucks. Gin is a superior spirit.
It’s definitely a fair point and vodka would be a good backbone to let the chartreuse shine but I do think the juniper spice pairs well with the aniseed of the Chartreuse to create a more dynamic cocktail
Chartreuse and drinks with chartreuse don't exist to me. The hype ruined being able to feasibly obtain the shit altogether. So it doesn't exist bc of you hypers.
This seems like odd logic to me…so people shouldn’t drink things in case they run out? These are both classic cocktails using it. I’m not even a massive Chartreuse fan but they show a good way to use an intense herbal flavour in drinks 😊
why did you put tattoos all over your arm yuck
Why did you put your unsolicited opinion all over the internet yuck