ACOLYTE Episode 8 REVIEW: Should We Get Season 2?
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
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Written and Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
Edited by Harriet Lengel-Enright, Randolf Nombrado, and Lee Mazzio
Featuring
Heather Antos / heatherantos
Dodson Seitz / banewruse
#Acolyte #Finale #StarWars
A couple of scenes of Sol training child Osha and seeing child Osha struggle with her grief would have made her confession at the end more believable.
Agree with this. Also, a reason why Sol wanted a Padawan so badly that he was willing to harm people. I kept wondering if he had lost a daughter once and was grieving. But the show never gave us that.
@@hollyhulewat8705 both of these ideas sound good! I loved the show but these would have made it better for sure. I really think that D+ 30min limit for all their shows is really crippling. 45-60 mins would have been awesome for including ideas like you both mentioned and just left each episode feeling more satisfying.
@@hollyhulewat8705
Well, then there would be no mystery.
That’s like wanting to see a scene at the beginning of a Who Done It that shows who the killer was.
@@dygz I don't know what you mean, there was no mystery. The only mystery that the show got going for itself it spoiled in its own trailers x)
You didn't even notice, you watched a show about twins that didn't even try to make you think it was the other. The only reason why you would even include twins. To make a mystery who did what. But the show didn't even use this. No clue what kept you questioning. The only mystery there is where the 180 million dollars went. Because they clearly didn't go into production.
@@dygz Mystery is great... I like that aspect of the show. But you can leave some threads behind that get tied in the end without spoiling it. They didn't do much of that.
I don’t feel like we are all watching the same show.
IKR, You can tell Coulton wrote these reviews and not Ryan. This show is hot garbage.
It is like most of Star Wars the lore and the concept are better than the actual product
The guest dude said "I feel like the Acolyte could be the best SW series that we've seen yet". LMFAO. Seriously? That has to be just PR bull$hit.
@@doublet147 I think screencrush has slowly turned into screenrant and new rockstars pumping out crap for views. Think imma take my departure soon just like I did from those.
@@Br33zeKooL you might be correct. I'm no longer subbed to those other channels.
My biggest complaint? I felt more for Pip when they got reset than I did any other character. I didn't feel like they developed the characters enough for me to care about them or their deaths.
Agreed 100%. As well as the characters that are still alive. Osha basically saw Qmir (spelling?) naked and instantly forgave him for killing her childhood friend just a couple hours ago lol. Like the flip flopping on motivations and lack of rational had me scratching my head the whole time, and I feel like I still dont know enough about the main characters to care about them.
@chrishouterman4772 exactly. The only one who we saw somewhat develop a bit of personality was Jecki.
I mean... when the show opens with Mae on a mission to kill Jedi... we know folks are gonna die. It's kinda like caring about people in the first 8 episodes of Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead. Or caring about deaths in a Horror film.
The only reason to care about who dies in The Acolyte is how that's going to impact the surviving characters and the plot path.
Empathy for the dead characters isn't really intended.
@@chrishouterman4772I had totally forgotten about that. That's how much of an impact it had. They prioritize subverting expectations to character consistency, clear motivation or decision making on every turn, making the characters/ show feel very erratic/ stupid. Really awful writing, I don't very why SC defends it so hard
@@dygz I disagree completely. Ned Stark dying at the end of the first season of Game of Thrones shocked the audience (that didnt read the books). He was practically set up to be the main character and everyone loved him.
I still don’t understand Sol. Why did he want a padawan so bad to the point of being overly emotional it just came off as weird. I think they should have made Sol a history buff and studied the prophecy, so when he when he sees the twins and realizes what they are, he wants to make them his padawan mistakingly thinking they are the chosen one.
I think that’s the subtext. He was interested in the proving what they found. Not just the twins. like the padawan that died, they wanted to prove it was real.
But obviously out of guilt and also ego took one of them as an apprentice
The structure was terrible
No when she put the mask on she tapped into the dark side and then applied it to what she already knew of the force. Plus being created by the force. She almost overcame quimer
I agree, Sol came off like a creepy pedo in the backstory that ruined his character and felt unearned.
Exacatly. And why not just get a padawon from the 1000 kids that are being trained at HQ?
I think my biggest issues with this series are similar to BoBF: It doesn't feel like they came up with a story, then developed a strategy on how to tell it. It seems like they looked at a story method they wanted to imitate, and wrote the story around it. All without really understanding the point behind that method of storytelling. If the people watching aren't compelled to rewatch the other POV's of the event(which I wasn't), then there's no point in doing it.
This is the most underrated and accurate take on the show tbh
Yup. I feel like they made the classic writing mistake of making up ideas for characters without crafting the story first. You always want to flesh out a proper story and then create proper characters for the story, they definitely did the reverse here
Fact
Absolutely good point, I was looking forward to the drops even after the misses along the way, so I knew it was "entertaining" enough, but I am left wanting overall. Not enough Sith for a Sith based series pitch. Except between this and Ahsoka Se 2 if Abeloth is being re-debuted. I'm hopeful for the future. Yet only in Andor, I trust. 😜
It was interesting idea that failed catastrophically. The story was incomprehensible because of the shifting character motivations. The story should have been mainly about Sol’s training of Osha to be a Jedi. Then her powers would make more sense and the turn more powerful when she leaned of the betrayal at the end. George has already set the template.
I just realized that both Qimir and Sol wanted a pupil very badly. Didn't work out too well for Sol, but Qimir got one in the end
He's training Osha in so many ways... 😅
If we saw how Sol trained OSHA maybe we could have seen parallels or differences in the teachings between Jedi &whatever Qimir is (they didn’t even answer that question ). The whole show is a missed opportunity.
But what did the acolytes want? Their motivations were either lacking or changing by the minute
@@nicomal when you say acolytes, are you referring to the Qimir and unconfirmed Plagueis or Osha and Mae?
Sol had a successful padawan in Jecki before Qimir killed her.
My guess is that Quimir owes his life to Plagueis, but is not his apprentice. He might be training Osha to hand her to Plagueis and get his freedom back.
Good theory. I stand behind it.
I agree. Before the rule of two there were Acolytes who served the sith and had some force awareness, but they were not on a path to become sith masters.
Agreed.
Ooh, I like it!
yeah but Plagueis would still kill him after
"The Jedi are the bad guys." What? That's not what I got out of this though so many want this to be. They're imperfect and flawed but no intent to do evil. If they're the bad guys, who are the good? I mean Sol did kill Osha/Mae's mother but it was a defensive reaction. Mae still started the fire that led to a lot of the chaos, even if it was an accident, it still had consquences.
This!
I think what he meant by that is more like antagonists of Mae and Osha's story. The Jedi as a whole aren't bad and these four Jedis weren't bad people, but in this self contained tragedy, they played the role of the antagonists from these girls' perspective. You can see why they would share Anakin's view of the Jedi by the end of the series from their narrow but understandable perspective.
Jedi aren't necessarily bad, but the point is that they shouldn't be policing the force. Should be able to use the dark side as you're not using it to harm people.
Yeah… the message is that it’s all more grey than the Jedi pretend it to be.
Yeah… the message is that it’s all more grey than the Jedi pretend it to be.
I just want to know why a 5 min cartoon about a blue Australian dog has better character writing and clearer motivations than 8 episodes of a 180 million show. I feel like there was so much potential here. But at the end of it, I feel, nothing.
I hated the character assassination of Sol's character toward the final episodes. It really disappointed me the way he became consumed with taking care of the twins.
Did I just hear "could be the best Star Wars series yet" when Andor exists??? Fuck my life
Mando season 1& 2 were also better…I like Ashoka better as well even if it might not be “better”
What the hell do people see in Andor that makes ‘some’ people like it so much? I thought it was boring as hell and lame.
@@Ac_a If you find it boring there's not much point me trying to explain what makes it so brilliant.
@@Ac_a The dialog makes sense. People don't explain but talk with each other. Characters have their own goals and motivations and only flip them with good reason behind. Characters care more about their own life than the plot progressing and this is a big one. It kills all my immersion in shows like Acoylte. The characters do not act like people but like plot devices. All they do, they don't do for themselves for to survive but to progress the plot. A good example is the mother of the twins fucking with the Jedi AFTER they already decided Osha can go with them. She literally didn't had to die. She could just communicate and no one would have died. But she attacked. Not because a human in her situation would ever act this way but because the plot needed the Jedi to kill her so Mae can go on her stupid revenge quest.
This whole thing can be done in a believable way. It was done a million times before. But the writers of this show are incompetent. So they fail again and again.
@@Noqtis Sol Xng the mother seemed like an accident because he was trying to protect the twins. She did turn into the mist monster thing and Mae was also.
There is a difference between pod racing skills and battling a JEDI MASTER of the cuff…
Writing was the problem, but not how you discuss writing in the video. It’s not about how they handled lore, it’s that they did not write believable or relatable characters. Sol and Qimir were the only characters who seemed congruent with their behaviors and emotions.
Mostly characters seemed to make decisions in service to a plot, not decisions that make sense for them to make.
It was the same in Obi-Wan, BoBf, and Ashoka. Some of Mando, too. Andor did not have this problem at all.
THIS! Thank you for pointing this out. My main gripe with this show is that a lot of reactions by most characters made no sense.
Preach
Qimir is a flip-flopper (although not as bad as other characters in show). 4th episode his lightsaber is ignited when he is next to Osha but he doesn't use the weapon and instead Force pushes her away. In 5th episode he throws a spinning saber at Osha before dues ex Sol appears for first time that episode (after many Jedi have been killed) and keeps the weapon from killing her. Then at the end of that episode Qimir takes Osha to some planet. The 6th episode has Qimir making innuendos while Osha holds his lightsaber.
Exactly. Characters made decisions for the plot not because of their personalities/characteristcs/motivations
I loved how Quimir looked all embarrassed when Vernestra felt his presence and he hustled to put his helmet back on. He played that perfectly. There’s clearly a connection between them but we have to wait for season 2 to explore it further.
I heard that there isn’t going to be a season 2. I heard that Leslie Hedland wasted millions on scenes that were never even used, and the money wasn’t in the original budget. So they approved like an extra 50 million for scenes that were not used
@@PlayListless i hear there will be a second season and they will use AI to write the script entirely.
They have already confirmed a s2@@JoshToksPop85
I interpreted that move not as embarrassment, but as an attempt to block his thoughts with the helmet.
Its possible that the budget was used, but rather for doing reshoots which do cost quite a bit of money
What if Osha was more powerful in episode 8 because she was using the dark side instead of the light? If she was born from the dark side, maybe she naturally has a huge tie there and in turn, it blocks her ability to use the light side of the force
That’s how I saw it. Her choking out Sol wasn’t her showing too much mastery of the Force. She was releasing 16 years of rage, anger, and betrayal all in one moment. It was just channeling raw Dark Side energy.
She was also standing on a vergance
He allowed himself to die
@@jasonpeacock9735 right?! How cool was it to see a kyber crystal get corrupted in real time?
@@RynBrolo
Powerful because she was tapping into her anger to fuel The Force. Yes.
that gopher jumping sides more often than a patriots fan 😅😂
Makes him a mole.
“Somehow Palpatine return” sums up this entire series.
I thought it was satisfactory, saved by the incredible fight scenes. As a whole, the series lacked for meaningful character development and missed some opportunities with certain episodes. Many streaming shows these days suffer from a similar issue: they take WAY too long getting to the important stuff, they waste an episode here and there, then they rush to the finish and leave you wishing there was more to it. Overall, I enjoyed it. But I thought it could have been even better.
Mae and Osha would have radical personality shifts that contradicted everything they did/said a single episode before.
I have no idea why Torbin raced to kidnap the girls to get off the planet when a moment before that the council told them to NOT mess with the girls and … come home.
One episode Mother Aniseya is urging the witches to avoid escalation, only to immediately turn around and attack Torbin with her powers, and then she continues to do nothing to deescalate things, turning into a shadow demon and is shocked when the Jedi killed her. Made no sense.
Not ONCE did Darth Bortles use his completely overpowered Cortosis against Sol in the end fight.
Even the Jedi marmot tracker guy had a completely unexplained heel-turn against Sol, sabotaging his ship as he was chasing down Mae. Why did he rat Mae out in the episode before that then?
This show was a confusing pile of hack writing with a couple member-berries tossed in for flavor.
I guess if flashy special effects are all it takes to make a show good, then yes, I can see why you would like it.
It really did feel like each ep had different writers who didn’t talk to each other
1, they both finally learned what happened, from another point of view.
2, they would not have been sent back home.
3a, yeah she is a hypocrite, that is her character
3b, she didn’t turn into a smoke creature. We know this as Mae didn’t actually fade to dust. That was sol being guided by his emotions.
4, because he didn’t have the opportunity
5, he sensed the darkness overtake sol’s heart.
So have you actually watched the show?
@@ked49 Yikes
1. I disagree with everything you said.
@@ked49 Nah I agree with him. Mae especially was changing her motives every episode, She is going to turn herself in then 30 mins later decides not to turn herself in. She leaves her sistet to die, then like a day later is crying and hugging her sister, then she goes on Sols ship to kill him and a few minutes later is running away from him. Also Osha had some strange shifts, the guy who killed all her friends kidnaps her and now they are buddies?
I think Torbins whole motivation was silly. It wasnt "I want a more exciting mission " or "I want to go back to a loved one" it was "I want to go home", like he is 8 or something.
The idea was to make the Jedi morally ambiguous which is an interesting idea but it just made them look incompetent which is just irritating. Whether it is Osha finding a shorter route to Torbin than Jedis that literally live and work in that area, the boss lady insisting Sol return to Corrusant for a meeting that literally could have been a phone call when one of their own is in danger, constantly loosing their tracker on a mission of lethal importance or even just allowing someone like Sol who quire frankly looking back is more unstable than Anakin on meth to be a Jedi.
Its a good show, I liked the senetor guys scene and the action has been amazing but if they do get a second season I really hope the writing improves.
Sol admitted, to osha, he killed mother anaseya. Why doesn't osha know, mae, korill and all the witches went nuts all over the base? Is mae accidentally or purposely framing sol for all the deaths?
This was the biggest mess next to a hoarders over filled mobile home
When I wonder where the money went for this show, I'm reminded that a big chunk must have went out to these reviewers. When you see the discrepancy between the "Tomatometer' and audience score, it's clear so many reviewers are sellouts
@@ELZOOL12Conspiracy theories are fun to think about sometimes, aren't they?
@LeleJackMusic it's not a conspiracy. It's called PR & Marketing. All companies do it. Some more than others.
Boba Fett and Obi-Wan were trash also
I think that the weekly format didn't do the story justice for me. There were odd story breaks due to the requirement of a 30 min edit cut. Ideas were left incomplete but not in a way that felt deliberately molded by that 30 min-ish run time.
It reminds me of the way the Hobbit films have a weird tempo due to warping a story to fit a format rather than telling the story as it wants to be told. It felt like a film (series?) cut into chunks. So the build up to reveals didn't feel like payoffs as the journey to reach them was distorted.
The essence of the story, trying to portray a Star Wars tragedy is really interesting. No one went into the tragedy on Brendok with ill-intentions but hubris and impulsivity and pre-existing hostility resulted in everyone making bad decisions and ultimately failing two young children. I really appreciated not having a clear right and wrong, without it feeling like a superficial Snyder-esque 'it's all grimdark now' vibe. It was morally grey but not because people were breaking with their own sense of right and wrong or you were being asked to empathise with the 'bad guys' but rather a 'road to hell is paved with good intentions' grey.
I like it draws on the narrative thread of the moral corruption of realpolitik - like the prequels and shows like Andor - the way morality starts to slip under the practical requirements of bureaucracy and legislative horse-trading. This idea is something I like in stories about the rise of totalitarian regimes - the whole banality of evil thing.
It was morally grey not because of deep borderline nuanced motivations or character complexity but because of shear stupidity. The decisions made were so stupid and the motivations were changing so fast in order to surprise the audience not to be consistent with the character. Why did Osha want? Did she forgive Qimir for killing her Jedi friends just because she saw him naked? When did Mae change her mind about killing j the Jedi who killed her mother?
This show was so frustrating. I love Star Wars, but if the Jedi is an evil religion and the Sith are justified, why would I watch it anymore? I hate thugs and I hate religion. The Jedi were a symbol of hope, peace and civility.
It doesn't matter if it was 30 min eps or two 2hr movies or one 4hr movie. The story & character development was bad. The time format can't change that unfortunately.
Osha was trained as a Jedi to not use her past as her power. The reason she so quickly becomes powerful in the last episode is because she finally starts to tap into her past to access the force. Other than that I agree with most of this analysis. I love these recaps and what you guys are doing. I appreciate the attempt at positivity and passion when approaching media the general landscape of videos on youtube are so bad faith and crushing to watch as a fan, I love that you all are a platform for celebration.
Being back on Brendok could have a big role in her power, as well. I'm re-watching certain episodes in the Clone Wars series and in the Mortis storyline, Obi-Wan tells Anakin to channel his strength FROM the planet itself. Totally different circumstances, but could still be a contributing factor.
She taps into her negative emotions
@@mattparker2681yeah, they are on a force nexus in both instances
Everything you just said is your own head canon and in no way did the show convey any of what you just did. If you have to explain what you think the show was trying to say with something so simple then the show didn’t do good enough at its job.
@@JBurnz001exactly how I feel about every breakdown Ryan has done on this show, he’s made it seem really deep when the show failed to even flesh out these basic concepts and ideas.
This show should’ve focused on The Stranger as the main character
Assuming you meant Qmir, I agree 100%. This is the acolyte, so if you want to do a POV where the Jedi are the bad guys, make that the POV of the entire show. Other than OSHA who become the real Acolyte , most of our time should have been spent with May and her master.
I mean… Qimir is not the Acolyte.
I’m more interested in Mae and Osha and how they relate with Qimir and his path.
I think we got the perfect amount of Qimir.
I agree
That's a really intriguing idea.
How has finished. People don't even know who is meant with 'the acolyte' lmao
But who wonders. This show throws even the rule of two overboard so there is basically zero consistency. Everything is now possible and everything has become just boring because you can not piece things logically together. There is not a single scene where you think: oh now this thing in the previous show/movie makes more sense! It's the other way around. You watch this, nothing in star wars makes any sense. It's all random depending on the showrunner and the story they want to tell. Zero consistency.
Ryan: ‘ I have really enjoyed covering the show and cashing the checks that Disney sends me’
There isn’t one single lightsaber fight in the Acolyte that compares to the Maul/Kenobi/Qui-Gon fight in Phantom Menace or the Anakin Skywalker/Obi-Wan Kenobi fight in Revenge of the Sith. Pushing that narrative won’t make this show any better or that finale any less of a dumpster fire.
This show felt like they wrote an episode then filmed it. Then weote an episode then filmed it, etc. Character dev & arcs were all over the place.
The worst Star wars spin off.
Seoul kept saying he will tell osha, and we get an episode of flashback, but we didn't get any reasoning.
If it wasn't a Disney Star wars show, Seoul would be a pedophile. He came upon a girl and instantly decided he wanted her for no reason.
Most of the things that happened make no sense. Was Seoul trying to kill May in that asteroid belt? Why did the tracker sabotage and help May?
Till the end Seoul was like "Your mother created you, but we don't know how." Was the method evil or wrong? It was just unknown! And it was more sith like to than Jedi like to desire to know what's unknown.
He kept saying he did Everything to save osha. From what!!! The children were in no harm.
You can see the stunt double on mays face during the fight.
That’s just one of about a thousand things wrong with the show
@@alexp601 Your thousand things wrong with this show is just a fraction of the billion things wrong with this show...
To be fair.... the entire show sucked so....
It's Disney, did you expect something different?
@@virtuaguyverify Yes, I did. How is that even an excuse? Oh, it's Disney so they get a pass for bad writing?
Disney should adopt the "Part One, Part Two, Part Three" method
They can keep it to 2-3 episodes per part, but release it that way since they're basically elongated movies or miniseries
They could've done it like the Mandalorian with each episode being a Chapter
Why were the episodes so short? This made it hard to build depth to the story. I really had a hard time understanding what the point was until the end episode.
Now that all episodes are aired, maybe someone can re-edit the series, in terms of sequencing, removing unnecessary parts, etc.
Take basil out for f the show please !!
Yup the black guy from the senate needs to aoear in the 4th episode to make stakes higher !!
Edit down a bloated eight episode series to two parts? That would shine too much light on their blown budget
The episodes are already 22 minutes long......
The result would be zero minutes long.
How is it that Oshas lightsaber bleeds red but Anakin murders a whole heap of younglings and it stays blue? What was it that made her turn more "red" than Anakins?
Girl power, that's it...
Ani wasn’t on a force nexus.
@@virtuaguyverifysadly…. But what’s worse was her “acting”while force bleeding it… there was literally no passion no emotion in her face….
Time of the month?
They can only write Mary Sues.
17:49 Heather, I think the reason why Osha is so powerful with the force in that last episode is because she finally started to use her emotions ie the dark side. She had been trained as a jedi to never feel emotions but because she always had that grief and anger she had to restrain herself. Then in that last episode she just embraces it and it becomes easier for her to use the force. Remember, Yoda said it was quicker and easier.
Completely right on that!!
That's what I was thinking, as well. It was the conflict within that was keeping her powerless. The old immovable object vs. Irresistible force. Once she resolved that conflict (in the opposite direction as Vader, I might add), her command of the Force was unleashed. Mae also became more conflicted, and less powerful, in an inverse correlation
But cmon did you see how difficult it was for Vader to bleed his kyber in the comics? Its no way she should have been able to bleed a kyber in a second when it was such a difficult process for a true Sith.
THIS!🎯🔥😎
@ShoppinBagLoso I haven't read the comics but I just found a summary. Seems like when Vader did the crystal tried to resist and also showed him visions of him killing Palpatine. Maybe because Sol had just completely fallen, his crystal wasn't able to put up a fight.
Grace Randolph had the guts to call this show out for what it was - maybe late to it, but she's risking her access. I cannot say the ScreenCrush team has the same bravery or integrity.
No. They will never say a Disney product is bad. They are afraid of losing out on the early screeners. If they criticize anything they immediately follow it up with a joke or about how it didn’t matter because another part was really good.
Be nice.
@@faitheffect254 Facts aren't always nice.
Honestly don't understand how you can ignore the hilariously bad writing and all them weird decision making characters do just for the sake of lets get to where all characters need to be.. Impossible to connect with any character because there is just no vibe or character development at all.. 2:08
The show needed a really strong editor to add more lines to explain why the characters are doing what they are doing and their motivation and not have characters flip all of a sudden.
Despite the best efforts of a good actress no Hollywood actor ever pulls off twins especially identical it always becomes troups of oh they switched and so on. They would have done better to not have the twins and make it one actress and focus on building characters.
It's so funny, we are on the same page about everything, it just comes down to presentation and semantics. For weeks, you guys also expose all the flaws of this show and in a summ most of these match. Really liked some of Ryans and Heathers takes on this, but UA-cam and audience critics have more or less experience with storytelling, production and movie making and yes, we are all aware that this type of project is a huge job and not anyone can do it. The only difference is some of us are sceptical about giving our childhood heroes and stories to someone that messes up simple things like character motivation and storyflow. Sometimes we call it bad writing or screenwriting because the lack of the better term. Perhaps the mistrust is caused by imposing unnecessary personal or political narratives. However you want to approach it, respectfully or not, we can all agree we want the best possible Star Wars we can get.
Well said.
I love an honest review/criticism/exploration of a show & not just venom for the sake of clicks. It doesn't mean reviews are positive for no reason, but they are balanced & nuanced.
It's why I come to this channel.
Agreed. If you want strictly toxic takes, just venture onto Star Wars Theory. Good lord, what a petty bunch.😂
@@mattparker2681 It really feels like that guy just hate watches, like so many other people
this. exactly this. Couldn't have said it better myself. I am exhausted with the constant toxicity of star wars fans and they are always just LOOKING to be furious instead of simply liking or not liking something.
Ditto
@@mattparker2681 Wouldn't call him petty or toxic - but we all view things from our own perspectives. Objectively, he does make sure to say a few times each video that if you enjoy it, good for you and that it's just his opinion that he does not... Which I personally think is as much a product of the last decade of Star Wars rather than just this show. That seems like a common sentiment to me
I don't think Osha has to much power. She tapped into the dark side to kill Sol. The dark side is the easy, fast way to power. And he honestly let her kill him. If we saw her legit best him in a fight then that would have been a problem.
Sol probably understands that killing him will push Osha more towards the dark side and he should've fought that instead of saying "It's ok"
@@fernandofreitas2615 truth. He was just so blinded by grief and guilt at the end.
I think that Vernestra sees a bit of Sol in herself, obviously covering up something in her past with Qi'mir. That's why she's finally now fessing up to Yoda. Shes still going to cover up to the Senate, but now feels compelled to come clean to her Masters.
Regarding Osha force choking Sol, with so little training.
Since they are dipping more into the Legends continuity there is one small aspect to the Legends continuity that comes from the West End Games version of the Star Wars Roleplaying Game in the 90's, which is the lure of the Dark Side represented in "Dark Side Die" or "Dark Side Points". It was one (or more) d6 dice that the GM would have there to tempt force wielding characters with. At any point the player could pick up the "Dark Side Dice", representing their character succumbing to the temptation of the Dark Side, and add them to the roll that they make for that particular action. The downside of this being that doing this marked the character forever more with a Dark Side point, and after using it too much they would fall completely and be unredeemable.
From a story perspective in the RPG this informed that a character slipping to the Dark Side could suddenly exhibit powers and abilities far above and beyond their usual skills. When I saw this it read to me as us witnessing Osha's fall as her need for revenge lured her into tapped into the "fast power" of the Dark Side... and if this was the RPG she just grabbed all the dark side dice available and rolled like there was no tomorrow.
Yeah that was ridiculous.
I agree with these shows being too short. 30 mins and only 8 episodes is not enough. Andor has more episodes and hour long. It makes no sense they shortchanged this one.
I started this show wanting to like it, and I did up until Episode 5 (Night), but then i realized that they were spending all their time on stories I found boring (Mae and Osha) and focusing on the mystery box rather than fleshing out the world, characters and lore (similar to what Rings of Power Season 1 did). I would have loved to learn more about Qimir, how the force coven came to Brendock, and the dynamics between the Jedi and the council, rather than getting two crappy episodes between episode 5 and the finale - one of which (teach/corrupt) felt like lame smutty filler/an over emotional Sol, and the other just reshows the events that everyone had theorized right since the beginning (so it literally felt like a quarter of the show was unnecessary filler). Would be okay seeing a seaon 2 with more Plagueis, but I don't think this would be the creative team to do it well.
She's 24, and as well as the vengeance, she was trained by the witches AND the Jedi for many years. Her problem was always that she blocked herself.
It would have made more sense if Venestra walked in and greeted Plaigus rather than Yoda
Why?
@WooWooWesty I think because she was willing to lie to the senate council about a potential sith to out of pure selfishness. It would solidify Palpatines overall plan of deception of the jedi by implying the seed of corruption had been planted long before Palpatine was even in power, that it was initially Plaigus' plan to take over but Palpatine continued and expanded on the plan. In my humble opinion, of course.
@WooWooWesty also it's implying, to me, that Yoda had knowledge of the rise of the sith well before Phantom Menace, which undermines his character.
@@papayogi96841000%. We are supposed to believe that either she lied to Yoda and rolled a natural 20 on her deception roll or that he went along with her story and then couldn't piece together what he knows from this scenario with Qui Gon saying that the Sith have returned
@devoncaitlin3598 agreed. I think they were headed in the right direction by showing the fallacy of the Jedi and how easily corruptible they can be. It would have been a great pay off to learn Plaigus was involved somehow.
Let me be positive. Whatever the quality of the show, it was a good examination of 2 ideas worth thinking about and applying.
1) The danger of over-caring. That is the wrong sort of caring can cause more harm than good.
In their eagerness to help, the Jedi caused harm by deprived the girls of their mother.
2) “Love” without truth is not actually, love. We need both to be whole.
"The underbelly of the human psyche, what is often referred to as our dark side, is the origin of every act of self-sabotage. Birthed out of shame, fear, and denial, it misdirects our good intentions and drives us to unthinkable acts of self-destruction and not-so-unbelievable acts of self-sabotage." Debbie Ford
This is an excellent quote.
Jedi lie and people die.
Especially with the Duality theme, I prefer the way they structured the reveals because we start with one perception of the characters and end up with a different perspective.
It’s better to start by thinking Sol is purely altruistic and later realize that he’s deeply flawed.
Also fun to start by thinking Mae is the Acolyte when Osha is the true Acolyte.
Also fun to assume that “The Master” was pushing Mae to kill Jedi in order to become his Acolyte only to later learn that Qimir was actually just training Mae to help her fulfill her own vendetta.
I enjoyed the guessing game of what the message was.
It’s a mystery. I enjoyed the mystery.
I agree. And will say that, as I binged the entire show in one watch, it was clear that something went way more wrong than just Mae setting a fire. Why else did Torbin need absolution? Sol was acted in a way that slowly built his guilt, pain and love. I thought it was brilliant.
Because of the Thread of Osha's mother used, it seemed to me that Osha needed the Dark Side to fully use her Force power.
So does that therefore mean that her mother &the witches draw their power from the dark side ,wouldn’t that therefore make them evil ? So Sol &his mates actually wiped out a dark force using group ?Doesn’t the dark side have largely Nazi themed notions of power ?None of the questions are clearly answered regardless
casting was great, disney was in the way, writing had potential.. ppl are really dull and complaining about the wrong shit
I cared way more about Sol and Qimir than I cared about Osha or Mae.
When you have to start an interview with “be nice”… it’s what I’m told before I review a 6th grade band concert.
"They coulda done this.. Or that..."
The had $180M+ and only did 8 episodes. What a waste.
Get a degree in film and fix it
@@reconpuffin lol, says the guy commenting on youtube videos. Small one, you must have.
Good thing they didnt get a loan from you :D
@@awildpokemonuwu- people who work in film also watch UA-cam and comment on them.
And is that a dick-size joke? What are you, 12? If so, there’s still time for you to go get that degree and make a difference!
- you don’t HAVE to have a degree in film to get in and make a career, you just have to get in and work your way up with a positive attitude .
What worries me is the Director of the upcoming Rey film doesn't even have a degree in film!
I think the storytelling was great. I keep hearing them say there were no stakes. There were high stakes. We just didn’t know them. I like the fact that nothing made sense until it ALL made sense. TO ME, it gives it a “Glass Onion” type of mystery feel. If every story is told the same way, it gets boring. They purposely left “clarity nuggets” until later episodes which made you appreciate the earlier episode a little more. I loved the ingredients and enjoyed the order. I don’t like the 30-45 minute episodes unless you’re giving them at least 10 episodes.
I loved the show, it's the exact type of Star Wars I've been waiting for ever since Revenge of the Sith came out and the more I rewatch it, the more I enjoy it. I think the biggest problem with the show, other than the short episode runtimes, it's that, even though it's great, it has so much more potential. A second season could easily fix these mistakes and make it my favourite Disney Star Wars, for now it's behind Andor, Rogue One and (the first two seasons of) The Mandalorian for me
how could anyone like, let alone love, such a horribly written show? Unless you're like 10 or have mild brain damage?
@@daveg2938I like how instead of asking you just insulted the person.
We should get a season 2 only if they recast the twins, Venestra and fire the writers and show runners. Bring in someone who actually likes the Star Wars lore
This chick doesn’t know Star Wars.
LMAO when the female guest said the fight between May & Osha was great. Did she watch it on 1.25x speed? It was horrible. Especially when compared to Sol & Qimir. Also, the 'wire work' slow-mo shot with Sol & Qimir was bad also just because the robes/cape were not moving with the motion of the characters.
Sadly I do think it was bad. But mainly the writing and pacing. TV seasons should not be less than 15 episodes
That’s not really an excuse either because many series today run for 8 episodes. You can do it but the episodes should be longer and more fleshed out. Pretty much every episode was 30-40 mins, on top of that the last writing and terrible pacing didn’t help much either.
dunno, I see more than enough in this show you can cut out and miss nothing.
In such a case giving the showrunners even more time for an episode doesn't magically make them write good stuff. you will get what you got in 30 minutes but instead stretched to 60 minutes. they themselves knew they can not do it. that's why they chose this format. If the problem would be the constrain of time and the show runners would have to much good ideas to implement, then you wouldn't ask yourself basic plot questions that didn't got answered nor would characters flip their motivation in every single episode. you get 30 minutes of consistency followed by 30 minutes of consistency. but because there were more good ideas than time everything would end on multiply massive cliffhangers instead of a member berry. and those cliffhangers wouldn't be artificial but a result of the short time frames itself. that clearly didn't happen in the show. there is literally not a single question I'm interested in getting answered by this show. especially after it resolved the plot so horribly.
In the Prequels we see most of the Jedi are arrogant jerks and liars. Yoda tells everyone to keep the Sith Master a secret and to not tell everyone that they have lost their connection to the Force on Coruscant, and in The Clone Wars Yoda again tells everyone not to tell that a Sith ordered the Clone Army.
The Acolyte is shortly before their demise, only a little more than 100 years after "a 1000 Generations of being the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic". We are seeing them in this show just shortly before their arrogance and hubris led to their demise.
I've always said the Jedi have been shady since 1977😅
@@freddyb6105 Obi-wan is a pants on fire LIAR!
Maybe we need a new director .. someone who can relate to what fans want and get the actors to relay that on to the screen..
My biggest question will always be, how were osha and Mae were made. We never get a proper explanation, all we know is they are one person in two bodies, but never get a proper explanation on how or why, and that’s the thing that will always bug me most because I feel like we should’ve gotten that explanation, maybe it was the sith doing, maybe they experimented on themselves, it can’t have just been the thread. There comes a point where you have to give answers to the audience instead of just leaving everyone out of the dark. It leaves fans frustrated and wanting more because they are interested and just annoyed that they have to wait longer for even more answers.
Was it bad?
Id say a solid Jeff Bridges “yEaH”
This show should’ve been about Qimir and Sol. Easily the best two characters on the show 🤦🏽♂️ . They still didn’t explain why Osha and Mae were created…
The Acolyte has many concepts and ideas that read well on paper, but on projecting them on screen in a series of episodes they fumbled the execution.
Every time the biggest flaw of any movies recently are basically character developement and script. Because writing is changing during filming, the blame is on producers and director and showrunner. Before premiere I read an article that few writers from the crew weren't lore geeks, just to make this story logic for normies. Well, they failed. The same problem was with Witcher from Netflix. Movies are becoming more of a product than an entertainment.
Two shoed in cameos don’t warrant a second season of a show that was mediocre at best. The lazy writing, absurd character decisions. The entire twin story took me out of this show completely. I only stuck around for Sol and the Stranger. If there is a season 2 I think they should focus more on the Stranger because he’s the only well written character in this season
My honest feeling is that Qimir was the best character in the show, twins were just.. i don't know I feel from scene to scene there was some different personality making decisions so i couldn't get interested in them, in the last episode i feel like they redeemed them a little, and gave a decent ,not good but decent start for a good second Season, but as I mentionted i felt whole time that the show was planned for Sith protagonist in Qimir, and he felt like a most fleshed out character. I mean , Yeah, why not Disney give us a season 2. And if you waste your money again , at least don't cry it's fault of "bigot" fans because this 5% ain't at fault , they just cry loudest about things that don't matter in the overall quality of the show ,normal fans just say what they don't like and doesn't watch, easiest way to show dissaprovement Edit: You gave very good point in the video, to much information about characters was given too late so for many people it wasn't enough to empathize with them
Damn screen crush, how much of that 180 mill they give you?
No shit this is laughable
😮😂
Having Yoda aware of Qimir and Osha still fits with canon in The Phantom Menace. Yoda knew about the Rule of two, even though that rule was put in place by Bane to prevent the Jedi from discovering the Sith. It would be bad rule if everyone knew about it. Confronting Qimir and Osha could expose the Rule of Two, and defeating them might trick Yoda into believing the Sith had finally been defeated.
I think a lot of older fans are having trouble digesting this series (im an older fan) is because of what theyve done to our idea of what a Jedi is. The OT had a cool green swamp wizard, a mysterious calculating desert monk, and an armored evil space knight. The Jedi were cool and mysterious and righteous. They were heroes. This series just showed us the Jedi as a bunch of bureaucrats and pencil pushers. None of them are cool or unique. Theyre all the same and theyre all boring. The Jedi robes in this series reminded me of suits and ties, everyone dressed the same doing boring administrative work. The idea of Jedi in the OT was these warrior monks who traveled the galaxy on adventures and now they are made to be corrupt snivelling missionaries trying to red tape the universe and play politics. They seem like red shirts from Star Trek instead of mystic paladins fighting evil. I know this has kind of been set up from the outset that the Jedi are not all that they seem but it still stings to see your childhood ideas and heroes turned into lifeless cardboard cutouts. The Mandolorian has been such a hit because Mando feels like the idea of Jedi that we grew up with; hes bad ass, hes mysterious and hes got a code of honor that makes him a cool hero. Didnt hate this series, just hate seeing Jedi diminished so much. That scene in the last episode where they are all 'running' through the forest and it looks like a bunch of middle aged suits shuffling to catch an elevator before the door closes. Sad.
Lucas did everything you're describing in the prequels but I'm guessing you didn't like those either.
I think a lot of Star Wars "fans" need to take a couple of lessons from the actual films and learn to not be so attached to things. Let the past go, it will be okay
@@himynameisjohn No, I liked the prequels just fine thanks for asking. At least the Jedi were still cool. I actually really liked the idea of these peace keepers made to fight as generals and soldiers, it made for an interesting contradiction. Sorry I dont meet your narrow qualifications for a star wars 'fan'. Ill try and do better.
So, if they didnt have time for Season 1 (3 years in the making), how are they going to have time for Season 2? Bad writing, bad acting, bad visuals...... lets be serious here.
So Anakin can massacre multiple younglings, force choke padme and keep a blue sabre, but here one force choke from Osha and it goes red... ok sure (not even her sabre btw)
Exactly right. You cannot bond with the same crystal twice. Hence why Vader and every fallen Jedi needs to kill another person with a kyber crystal, additionally ani wasn’t on a darkside nexus.
Well that’s how it works.Sith must take a crystal to bleed it, and they have to take it from a Jedi. also Anakin crystal wasn’t touching his bare hand so he could bleed it. It’s pretty obvious if you watched the episode and know how this works now.
@@Ghost_-nz5dy Thank you for explaining it more clearly than the writers of the show.
I’d like to see a super cut of this show in chronological order…
I think one of the reasons Osha is more powerful as a "Sith" than what she showed as a Jedi (she didn't use the Force to help her escape from the prison ship, etc, despite having training) was just to show how much faster the path to the darskide is, especially when you are overcome with emotion like she was as she was choking Sol.
Yeah, no. You can't do this once. It has to have continuity. How does the dark side give you such a power boost you go from Padawan to Jedi killer but when Anakin goes full dark-mode, he can not kill a Jedi Master as someone who has the power (but not the knowledge) to become a Jedi Master himself, younger than most others in history.
Once a Sith Lord has a 2nd apprentice, the Master seeks to determine which will be stronger. The rule of two is grossly misunderstood by the Jedi. “Always two there are, no more, no less.” Every Sith Lord in Star Wars canon has their own apprentice, just as sure as the Lord has a Master.
I’m glad this guy said it. They purposefully made Jedi bad guys. Yoda included.
No they didn’t. They did purposefully make it so some of the characters would view them as the bad guys. Thats the Sith. Bad guys generally think they are the good guys. All they showed was they had flaws. Which we already knew.
@@mkhud50n disagree. They want hen to be as bad as the Catholic church . Nobody can be that bad. Yoda basically lying to the galaxy? Lame
@@mkhud50n flawed we already knew. Yup. Complacent . Yup. But liars to the galaxy no. Sol even came across like a creepy priest
@@bestlexluthor7596 kinda. I think it’s if the Catholic Church or any religious institution had unchecked power. Palpatine was that bad. Too much power from either side is bad and terrifying. That’s why there’s two sides to balance it out.
Yoda didn’t lie. He didn’t even say a single word so you’re getting ahead of yourself and assuming. Even in the prequels he was concerned about info getting out that would multiply the Jedi’s enemies. He did fail but we see him wiser for it on Dagobah.
@@mkhud50n ok you could be right. I guess he could have been duped by Venestra that 1 Jedi killed 10 plus others .
I must've been watching a different show than the blue haired guy. The jedi were clearly not the bad guys in this show, despite the shows best attempt to portray it as such. Qumir and Mae went on a killing spree. Discount mother townsend transfixed into a black smoke monster while disintegrating one of her daughters, resulting in her death. OSHA (not a jedi) force choked Sol to death without allowing him to further explain himself.
13 one hour episodes could have made this show excellent. I did enjoy it though. I’ve been a SW fan since 1977 and if you’ve been watching since then, you have to appreciate the amount of content we are getting now. We waited 20 years for the prequels ffs
@@BigMuff520 I respectfully disagree. I saw Empire in theaters as a 5 yr old and Star Wars has been a passion ever since. Quantity does not out weigh quality and this show did absolutely nothing for me. I'm glad you enjoyed it though.
Overall, I think this is one of the best pieces of Star Wars content we've had for a while. However, I agree with the point you all brought up at the end of your discussion, that the format and delivery has worked against it. It's not just the way in which the episodes have been structured and cut into chunks, it's also that it was put out on a weekly cadence. There are so many subtle hints in the first episode to what was going on, but it's maybe not until the end that you fully understand. The fire Osha sees causing her to withdraw, the young Palawan telling Sol about the fire she visions (and his reaction), Sol being established as a compassionate teacher who is highly regarded by the Jedi, Sol's affection for Osha is established, and they also discuss covering up the incident so that it does not go public. That short conversation between Sol and Vernestra is so significant, but it's hours of story before those threads are pulled and weeks of waiting for the show to pull them.
I hope we get season 2 and I hope they approach it as a TV Show, so that they establish intent/motivation/peril earlier, build the stakes, grow the characters, and don't cut the episodes at a dramatic moment in the middle of a scene like it's some cheap soap opera.
I’d love to commend you for your ability to still cover Star Wars and like Star Wars well voicing your critiques and opinions…
In the space, it seems many of the channels and platforms have almost went to the Darkside and decided to gain clicks by overly hating everything Star Wars…. But your channel doesn’t do that and thank you so much for that. Yours is one of two channels I can still stand to watch to fulfill my Star Wars nerd urges.
That finale was WACK. When the Jedi were coming up on them, my wife and I were yelling at the TV, “JUST LEAVE!” Why did they have to do that corny amnesia plot point then and there? Drop Mae off along the way if you must. Fights good, script bad.
I go back and forth on this series. I think that, as you have said, it was told in the wrong order and that there is a lot of potential. However, I have an issue with what feels to me like bad acting (at times) and things that are just too predictable. Also, there is no explanation of WHY characters switch their sides so quickly. One minute, Osha says she hates May, then after finding out that it was Sol, not May, who killed their mother, she LOVES May all over again and forgives her for killing her other Jedi friends. Things were not explained enough, if Osha is so powerful with the force, why could she not use it in the first few episodes? Why did the Jedi need a tracker to find Osha and May when Qimir could sense them and said the Jedi could as well? Assuming there will be a next season, I really hope that they can make us care more about the characters, and actually explain what is going on, and why we should care about them.
No to a second season, especially if we get the same writer or director. Bad acting, dialogue, and storytelling killed the show. The only saving grace is the fighting scenes and cgi effects.
It wasnt perfect, but i really liked it and hope we get at least a season 2. I really think they can tell this story in 2 seasons.
I wish they would anchor these uber force sensitive characters with something astounding but grounded in some form of reality. Anakin was an extremely adept pod-racing prodigy, and it really showcases how his connection to the force gives him unnatural abilities; even those he doesn't comprehend yet. Showing Osha suddenly force choking people doesn't do it for me. There's literally no journey from her being unable to even grab pip using the force to suddenly having mastery over it. Justst because she's mad about her mother being killed by someone she trusted doesn't promote that level of control over such a strong force.
It's stupid to give unlimited power and control of that power all at the same time. She needed something to anchor her potential to reality and to showcase her latent potential. Her fucking around with a butterfly isn't it.
The Acolyte was entertaining. To say, we don't learn the Jedi are 'bad' until the end is not right. From the start, we can tell something is up. Mae needs to kill four Jedi. We get the idea that she must have a reason, possibly a good reason. The reveal at the end that the twins were made through cosmic forces. Sol might not know it, but we can know it pretty early. The Acolyte wasn't perfect, but it was fine.
its a trash show i refuse to watch it and its great season 2 plans got canceled.
May: Osha you’ve been brainwashed, leave the Jedi and join me and let’s be a family again
*May and Osha finally understand each other
*5 minutes later
Osha: May you need to be brainwashed and leave me even though we just reunited. Peace out Girl Scout.
Great writing and well thought out ending lmao
I'm not gonna lie.. like what you want.. however, I can't help but feel like I don't agree with a lot of what this channel is saying anymore. This was my first time watching a screencrush video, and not finishing it..
I share this sentiment... feels like they're shilling like they've been paid... dnt think that's the case but that's how it feels... bad content is just bad content no matter how u spin it...
Screen Crush is doing damage control for Disney. But whatever gets you clicks 🤷🏻♂️
Because your unbiased coverage of the Acolyte and overall great content on a regular basis I've grown to become a big fan!! Great job on this one!
Unbiased coverage? 😂 oh my sweet summer child...
Unbiased? Screen Crush? 😂😂😂 I love their Easter egg breakdowns, but they are VERY biased.
Plagueis intro sucked!
He should have been in the cave waiting when they returned. Qimir shouldve looked like he was so nervous he was going to puke. Plagueis would express his disappointment in Qimir and remind him of the terms of apprenticeship. He should have analyzed Osha through the force and killed Qimir when he realized what she was. He shouldve looked Qimir in the eyes and say "and to think you almost had a name in the long line of successors leading to pur triumph but I thank you for bringing me my greatest experiment." End the episode
Boom Star Wars saved
Answer: fuck no we don’t.
Despite what the haters say, this is not a bad show and doesn't violate lore, and I'm 110% sure that once the buzz dies down, in 10 years people will love this series for introducing the high republic era (to people who don't read the books, like me) the way they love the prequels for setting up the clone wars era. We all know the haters are loud but the fans of the franchise stick around once Hating on it no longer garners clicks or upvotes or whatever internet social currency people get at the time. The climate around TLJ has already shifted from the steaming inaccessible vitriol of 2016 we all thought signaled the end of the fandom. I think we're starting to see the end of the patience people have extended to Toxic fandom. Some people want to be able to criticize the things they love because they want it to be better, and other want to insult the things they hate because they want it to fail, and we're recognizing them for what they are now.
We can already tell from the streaming numbers and channels like Screencrush that a lot of people see a lot of value in this show and are excited to see more. There's a lot to love about this show, after all! The Fight choreography is great, the sets and costumes and props are great, the diverse side characters are fun and memorable just for their uniqueness even if they have few to no lines, the ADDITIONS to lore are exactly what you want out of a prequel series.
Was it bad? Yes. I don’t consider this canon. Any true hardcore fan will recognize that.
Good point. They basically made the Jedi like the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages
“The show makes the Jedi evil, has bad writing and destroys canon!” - people that don’t understand Star Wars.
If only that was their only motivation.
@@blairhoughton7918 they should be clearer about their real motivation. They aren’t understanding the story or even bothering to try and figure it out. It comes across as childish.
Yes because there’s so much unanswered! There were moments that were bad because it lagged
I agree there needs to be longer than 30 minutes in a story like this
Also the fight between Osha and Mae felt like she was fighting herself good shit
I loved that a lot of the time we weren't quite sure what was going on for a change, for me, that was a total plus. I can't wait for season 2.
I was very entertained and saw greatness amongst the average show. Id love a Season 2 with longer episodes and tighter writing.