Part 2, Follow-up Conversation About My Ski Quiver
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- Опубліковано 30 лис 2022
- Several viewers have asked me to elaborate on why I made the decision to drop NNNBC and 3 Pin bindings from my quiver.
Alfa Free X/P/S GTX XCD Boot Review • Alfa Free X/P/S GTX XC...
Cable and Hardwires • Hardwire verses Cable ...
Scarpa T3 / Voile 3 Pin • Voile Objective BC Ski...
Voile Objective / Xplore Binding / Alfa Free • Voile Objective BC / A...
Thank you for this, Tom. I have had NNN bindings and Cripsi Boots for 10 years, but are now gravitating towards Explore or 75mm. You have convinced me that for my kind of riding the explore would be my best option. Thank you very much :)
I'm glad you found it useful. There should be a couple more Xplore boot choices next fall. Hopefully you will find one that suits your feet and ski objectives. Thanks for tuning in and for posting and best wishes on your search for new gear.
Thank you for your great videos. Seeing all that snow makes me so jealous! It still hasn't started snowing here in north Iceland. I'm crossing my fingers for next week :D Just wanted to say thanks and that your videos have been really fun and informative and have helped me understand what is what. Skál.
Thanks for tuning in and for the positive feedback. It gives me the encouragement to continue to produce these videos. I hope you get some snow soon. Ours arrived very early this year so it looks like we are going to have a great snow pack this season.
new vid from TOM! have a great season :)
I found your Ski Quiver series very interesting thank you! It's nice to see manufacturer innovation. I'm going to stick with my Leather Scarpa Telemark boots and Mountaineer binding because these boots are comfortable and offer excellent support now what I've broken them in. I occasionally still use my plastic boots but like you they really tear up my feet. This year I'm trying out my new Asnes Rabb 68. I just ordered the 40mm race x-skin to compliment my full width skins. These shaped skis work very well for the downhill with leather boots but I'm still struggling with the flats and rolling hills using kick wax or klister in challenging snow conditions. I'm hoping the race skins help. I wish these skis were waxless like your S-Bound 98.
It sounds like you have a great XCD setup and I'm sure you will like the mini skin. Waxing can really be a challenge, especially in Maritime climates and I'm betting the skins will increase the enjoyment factor on those difficult snow and temperature days. Thanks for posting feedback and I hope you have a great January.
Tank you! It was very helpfull for me!
Glad it was helpful. Thanks for the feedback and for tuning in.
Finally got the chance to properly try out my Xplore setup this last weekend. 20km XC ski on Saturday and hit the in-town (River bank) downhill ski area in my city (Calgary) on Sunday. I was a little slower on the XC ski than my friends on proper classic Nordic skis but not by much at all. Loved the downhill, telemark performance but I’m a beginner Tele skier so that’s probably not saying much. All in all, very happy with the setup. Minimal compromises on either end.
Fantastic. The little bit of efficiency loss due to the beefier setup, in comparison to lightweight XC gear is an acceptable tradeoff for the additional off trail downhill control. It sounds like you are having a great time, and kudos on the 20 km ski this early in the season. Thanks for tuning in and stay safe.
I am starting to see more users of the Xplore system here in Norway - the online stores are also now marketing a lot more Xplore packages. From first only Åsnes Falketind62 and Falketind68 (Rabb68) to now all the Åsnes BC skis. We now have 3 Alfa boots, 2 Lundhags boots, 1 Alpina boot and 1 Fischer boot in Xplore.
In march 2022 a norwegian outdoor magazine reported on supposedly several cases were the pins had gotten stuck inside the boots making it impossible to engage the bindings. In one of these cases a wild life officer supposedly had to walk out a valley in deep snow with the skis on his shoulders making it a real hazard. At that time I think Åsnes stated that it was a known possible issue with only a certain production run. Åsnes thus decided not to do a recall but offered inspection and replacement of the pin system on all boots were the owner had even the slightest issues with the pins not moving freely.
So far, I haven't had any issues with the pins. I sure hope the system is durable and that failure is a rare occurrence. I was concerned enough last year that I beefed up my emergency kit so that I could strap the boot to the ski in the event of a binding failure. As time goes on and the bindings see more use, the worry factor should go down. I appreciate the feedback and I'm sure others will find your comment useful. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great ski season.
Your videos are great, Tom!!! I envy the place you live in and ski. Since I use the same boots both for cross country skiing and Nordic (touring) skating on the lakes, I stayed with NNN BC boots even though I was buying a full new set. To my knowledge xplore bindings were not designed to be put on the touring skates yet, but I may be wrong. Anyway here in Europe the price tag for the set (NNN BC boots plus Rottefella BC/magnum bindings) is much smaller - bindings around 70EUR, boots from 130 to 250-280 EUR (more expensive ones Alfa guards, or Alpina Alaska). Enjoy the winter!
NNNBC is a great system, especially for kick and glide tours. There are also NNNBC boot options that offer great downhill control. The Alfa Vista is basically the same boot as the Alfa Guard, just with an improved Xplore sole. My wife is sticking with the NNNBC system for her off trail skis, but she will consider switching when it comes time to replace her boots.
I mounted Xplore on my Lundhags T-skate, but had to drill extra holes and tap two extra center holes. Hopefully future skates come pre-drilled. I came from 75mm though, and skipped NNN-BC. Here i Norway the price difference on some boots is low while on others it is greater, while the Xplore binding is much more expensive than NNN-BC. End of season sales helped last spring.
@@rksnilsberg indeed, you are right. Probably next year the skate producers will start offering full sets, or maybe some skates like Zandstra NIS or Delta/Nordic including the "fit all" screw set could accommodate the xplore binding even without extra drilling
Hi Tom
Definitely useful info Tom…here in Canada I haven’t seen any following much of the new system as of yet. The cross pin and 75 mm still rule I guess.
Andrew
Andrew, where in Canada? I'm in the Toronto area, and there is little representation behind NNNBC and some 3-pin, as well.
Not many people ski a BC XC setup. Most opt for the groomed stuff.
@@carminealfano8559
I’m in Moncton New Brunswick
Been digesting all the info i can find on the xplore. I really like what youve said about them. I am interested but that price tag is to prohibitive for me personally. I can get a complete set up for the price of the boots and bindings. I hope in the long term they prove to be reliable and the price comes down
It is always a good idea to look at all the alternatives. NNNBC is a great system, especially on the Excursion 88 class of ski. I'm sure you will have a great time no matter which way you go and I'm confident that you have enough experience to know what system will suit you best.
Great analysis. I can’t help but wonder if Rottefella missed the mark a little with the Xplore. They could have made them compatible with tech toe plastic boots and that might have been the perfect replacement for 75mm moving forward. The pin tech is still an interesting and fun touring setup (ask any AT skier) and I look forward to trying it when I find an affordable option. Until then, I’ll carry on with my NNN BC and 3 pin setups. Long story short - no one is losing when the industry is producing options 😎
I don't really know why Rottefella decided to reinvent a reverse tech toe. If it was a cost savings, they are not passing it on to the consumer. I had some reservations with the spring pin toe design of the boots when I first started testing them in May of 2021, but so far, they are working well with no issues. I would love to see a Scarpa T4 class of boot for the new system, but I think it is unlikely. I suspect that Rottefella's intention was to just update the NNNBC class of skiing, improve the boots and binding for off trail XC skiing and not try and reinvent the plastic boot / downhill / lift service / telemark world. There is probably a much bigger market for XCD than there is for plastic telemark.
It will be interesting to see how the reverse engineered tech toe holds up. One of the great positives of the AT tech toe system is how failproof it is - i.e., less moving parts at the connection level. I am now skiing a switchback binding for steep and deep, but I do still appreciate how resilient my AT setup was for many many years. Hopefully, that holds true for the Xplore system!
I think there are probably two main reasons for reversing the pins; the binding can have an even simpler/easier design and Rottefella could patent the interface to avoid competition. Xplore is actually similar to the Dynafit P49 with the reversed pins, so it may be the ultimate in light weight. I still wish a little that it was pin tech compatible, so one could mix and match different boots and skis, but that might also have created liabilities with some breaking equipment and injuring themselves.
The system is nice and works both on my backcountry skis and touring/nordic skates, even though there are still several possibilities for improvement. I do hope the price of the binding comes down in the future and that Xplore with boots like the Alfa Free can bridge the gap to my burlier telemark equipment. I can see no technical reason for the boots to cost much more than their NNN-BC equivalent, which I think the Alfa boots at least shows.
@@tomm9850 I was also curious as to why they went with the spring pin in the boot. My curiosity led me to discover that Rottefella did not come up with the concept themselves. Dynafit actually developed similar technology in their P49 Skimo Race binding. This just led to more confusion however because I still don't know why, if they were copying Dynafit anyway, they chose the P49 and not the standard. There must be a reason...
Really grateful for this series. I liked your hard plastic boots with the flexor section and I can see why you like the Alfa free. Question: I think I saw your Voile Objective skies either use the explorer bindings or NNNBC. Is that a ‘use at your own risk’ setup? I saw a proviso on Voile against Telemark bindings for these skis, but not sure which which setup yours was.
Yes, using any binding other than an AT downhill binding on the Voile Objective ski is at your own risk. I used the Objectives with the Voile 3 pin cable traverse and a modified traverse with the hardwires for a couple of seasons, then remounted the ski with the Xplore binding. I did not have any issues. The Xplore bindings seems to be very well attached to the skis, so I'm not worried about pullout, especially since I won't be using them with my Scarpa T2's. I don't think it would be possible to pull the binding out of the ski with the soft boots in my quiver.
@@tomm9850 Here’s another question, if you could be so kind. Would you recommended to someone starting out on BC skiing with a limited budget to start with the Fischer 98 with the Xplore Bindings for an average ‘all-purpose’ use, with the understanding that its not for steep alpine grades or the ideal mobility for the flats?
For typical XC skiing (skiing rolling terrain) where the emphasis is on kick and glide, most skiers would be very happy with NNNBC. The S-Bound 98 would not be the ski I would pick for that type of skiing. The S-Bound 98 is ideal for soft snow skiing when the focus is downhill turns and control in moderate terrain. For the latter, I think the Xplore system is superior to NNNBC on the 98's. I can't really address the cost issue as that factor is different for everyone. I think the best way to look at the cost difference is to be honest with how often you ski. If it is just a few times a year, then it is probably not worth the extra cost and it might be best to look for a used set of skis with NNNBC. If XC skiing is your outdoor exercise of choice and you ski often, then I'd budget a bit more for the equipment and go with an Xplore system over NNNBC.
Really appreciate your deep-dive into the new bindings. I'm considering making the switch and these videos are really helpful. Unrelated question, would you mind giving the name of the area you're skiing in this video? Looks like wonderful back-country Nordic country!
I'm glad you found the video helpful. The video segments are from several different locations, specifically in the Caribou National Forest of Eastern Idaho and in the Bridger National Forest of Western Wyoming. There is a great resource online for this area, jhnordic.com/trails/ where you can find full trail descriptions and maps. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you are having a great ski season.
Thanks for the videos Tom! Very informative and super helpful to me as I'm trying to decide on an Xplore setup. 2 questions: What size foot do you have and what size Alpha boot was the right size for you? I'm a 9.5, usually a 43 mondo, but was seeing on REI that Alpha size would be a 41 and even read a review somewhere that said they needed a smaller size? My other question (leaning toward the Fischer Traverse 78) is did you mount the 78's yourself or have a shop? Curious about the narrowest width waist you could mount an Xplore binding on and if it was a tight fit on the Traverse 78?
The REI sizing chart is pretty accurate for my feet. I normally wear a size 10 and I'm wearing a size 42 in both the Alfa Free and the Alfa Vista. The length of my longest foot is 267 mm (barefoot length with full weight on the foot). It is very important to get a very good fit, so buying from REI is a good option as you can return the boots after a few outings if they are causing problems. I mounted the Xplore bindings on my Traverse 78 and I think it is a good binding for that ski. It is not that difficult to mount the binding if you are careful and handy, but if you have any concerns about your ability then it is probably best to have a shop mount them. I have a video from last year where I mounted the Xplore on a set of SBound 98's. ua-cam.com/video/L4x83sbZfWw/v-deo.html
@@tomm9850 Thanks so much Tom! I lived in Victor from 2016-2021 and sure enjoyed some of the local skiing that I see you enjoy too! I'm up in the south end of YNP now and spend much time on skis so I appreciate your input. Happy Trails!
Hi Tom, thanks for the informative videos, million $$ question of the three Explore style boots you have if you could only have one pair which ones would you choose?
If I could only have one boot, it would be the Alfa Vista. It has good kick and glide performance, is light weight, and still has adequate control for skiing moderate terrain. The toe crease is perfect for my foot. It has a very wide footbed, so it requires a very thick sock and I do have some heel slippage, which is a problem many people have with the Alfa boots. I'm taping my heels during the break in as a precaution. I have a set of Ezeefitsports Ultrathin Blister Prevention Ankle Socks on order that I'm going to try out next week and I hope that will eliminate the need to tape my heels. I think most people would be happy with the Alpina Alaska XP, especially for kick and glide tours. Unfortunately, my foot is a bit too wide at the front, so it is not an option for me (I tried two different sizes of the boot). The Alfa Free is a very different boot from the other two. It offers the most support and downhill control of any soft boot I've skied. The kick and glide performance is tolerable but much better than skiing a stiff plastic boot. It is the boot to pick if downhill control is more important than kick and glide comfort. The main issue I have with the Free's is that the toe creases right over the top of my toe curl. It may not be a problem for a normal foot. They are all good boots for different reasons, and I think the key thing is fit.
@@tomm9850 Thank you so much for the info and your time. It's been a while and technology has changed since last skied telemark or real backcountry. So I am wading through sensible reviews. stay safe and in your words Be Kind. James
Hi Tom- I've enjoyed your videos and have a couple questions for you. I'm a novice/beginner skier - only a few years under my belt. I have a pair of Fischer traditional skis and find the narrowness a bit tricky on the rough trails in the state forests I ski in upstate NY. I've also skied some int he Adirondacks. Almost everywhere I go, especially in the ADKs, I see people using wider backcountry skis. I've been researching and debating on getting a pair of Fischer S-Bound 98s but not sure if it's what would be useful to me. I like the flexibility of adding the EZ skins or full-length skins and the no-wax feathers of these skis. The 98s seem pretty popular and are hard to find this time of year, and seem more popular than the S-Bound 112 and Excursion 88. I've also looked for used 98s and haven't had luck. I'd most likely stick with the NNN BC Rottefella bindings and then try to find some boots that work for me - either new or used. If you have any suggestions if the 98s would be a good ski to go with and if it would be worth it, I'd appreciate your comments. If you have suggestions on a boot that runs a bit wide, that would be appreciated as well, along with any resources you have for used equipment.
The S-Bound 98 is a great ski and would pair nicely with the NNNBC binding. I think its best use case is for soft snow on rolling tours where some longer downhill runs are expected. For hard packed conditions and mostly straight-line skiing on flatter terrain, I'd opt for a narrower ski. I usually ski my Traverse 78's and Julie likes her Excursion 88's for skiing ungroomed snow packed forest service roads and trails. I don't know how wide your current skis are, but a ski in the Fischer 78 or 88 class does offer a bit more stability off the groomed path. I haven't skied the S-Bound 112, but as Fischer's widest XC downhill focused ski, I think it would have a similar use case as the 98, but offer more float for deep and soft snow. In recent years, the ski retailers have sold out their inventory early in the season, often before January 1. Looking for used gear can be hit and miss. The obvious sources, Ebay, Craig's List, and if you live in a ski town, one of the consignment stores are the best places to look for used gear. Another option is to sign on to Telemarktalk.com. They have a for sale section, but what I'd recommend is to just create a new post "I'm looking for a used set of XXXX" You might get lucky. In regards to boots, Alfa is known for having a wide boot. They are expensive, and as a leather boot, take some time to break in. I've been very happy with the Alfa Vista boot for the Xplore binding and the NNNBC equivalent is the Alfa Guard. I hope you are able to find a set that works for you, but if not, just enjoy the gear you have this season, continue to build on your skill set, and resume your search again next fall. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you are having a great season.
@@tomm9850 Thanks Tom - I appreciate your comments. I think you wife, Julie skis in the Excursion 88 (I think you have a pair as well) - how does she/you like them? Would these be a good alternative to the S-Bound 98s? In either ski, I'd go with 179 length. It seems the 88s would be more of an all-around ski that tends to go straight and also good for carving down hills, vs. the 98s are for climbing and descending hills in deep snow. What is your take between the two? Which would you recommend for a beginner? Have you used or found a need for the skins on either ski? What I'm finding currently is only $50 difference between the two models that I can find in stock anywhere so it's not that much of a financial difference. I just want a good ski that I can handle in 4 to 10 inches of snow, going straight, climbing and learning to telemark eventually. Thanks for any additional comments!
@Trailrunner26 I don't have the Excursion 88 in my quiver. I've skied Julie's 88's mainly for testing purposes ua-cam.com/video/3dGTkCCzjyk/v-deo.html but her's are too short for my height and weight. The 88's have less sidecut, 20 mm vs 29 mm, and a stiffer camber, so they are better suited for kick and glide tours . The 98's are easier to turn but they are still cross country skis by design, not a true downhill ski. The 88's will be faster on the flats and a better kick and glide ski. There is only 1 mm difference in the underfoot width, so while the 98 will offer a little better float, I don't think the difference would be noticed under most conditions. Pick the 88 if most of your skiing will be on rolling terrain, ungroomed forest roads and trails where most of the turns will be XC type turns, especially if you are skiing packed trails or ski trails that have already been broken by other skiers. Pick the 98's if most of your skiing will be off the beaten path, in soft snow, where you will be breaking your own trail. In my area, this is the type of skiing and terrain where I use my 98 ua-cam.com/play/PLSbEbRoGC_hpk2O20D7AQUDlldgs__fvH.html and this is the type of terrain where I would ski an Excursion 88 ua-cam.com/play/PLSbEbRoGC_hpx3ooFLYcN4w3R-JIQBhOd.html
Hey Tom, is the back of your Xplore binding still mounted "backwards?" Have you noticed any downsides of do so for the last few seasons? I'm preparing to mount mine and want to make sure it's not something I'll regret. Thanks for the videos, they've been super helpful!
I have all mine currently mounted with the heel wire forward (wire folds downward toward the tip of the ski). The demo skis I received from Alpina had them mounted the other way, so I've skied both. The rottefella wire is hard to grab with a ski pole, and that is the main reason for mounting the wire folding down toward the tail with other heel risers. I couldn't tell much difference in the feel when lifted either way. When I mounted my own bindings, I mounted them to match the photo on Rotofella's instruction booklet (folds down toward the tip). I wish they would improve v2 of this binding to make it easier to use the ski pole to raise and lower the heel wire
Thanks for the quick reply, thank you! @@tomm9850
Too many pole plants on your Telli turns Tom. Shorten you poles significantly for you down hill runs, and swing your outside pole forward in a long slow arch with the grips facing forward and slightly downward as though you are scooping snow off the ground. When the pole on the outside of the turn is all the way in front of you, plant that baby just once and initiate the turn around it. One plant per turn is all you need/want. The multiple little wow-@#$& pole plants throughout each turn is wrecking your turns and keeping you from committing all your weight into the turn. And the elongated poles are compounding the issue forcing you to perform the el-Toro poling. Trust me, extended poles uptracking in deep snow is fine, but knock them way down for downhill turning, and scoop your way toward one pole plant per turn on each side. Your skiing will improve by leaps.
:) ua-cam.com/video/qCz-E5SZyoo/v-deo.html
I bought (used thank God) 3 pairs of skis with bindings and a pair of nnn boots. 2 bindings were nn(3pin) and the other SNS. Soooo I cant ski yet.
What should I buy so I can actually ski?
I don't have enough information to make a recommendation. What skis did you get and what type of 3 pin bindings are on them? Do you have a set of skis that you can use with your nnn boots or are you planning on remounting one of the sets of skis to nnn? Are you comfortable with doing a binding remount yourself? What type of skiing do you intend to do and are you looking for a set of 3 pin boots?
Hey Tom, do you ever see the Xplore system adding a cable ?
That is a good question, and I don't have any inside information. I'm very happy with the support and control that is offered by the new binding and boots. If feels very different from skiing a boot with a cable or hardwire but I won't miss the option for a cable, especially when I'm skiing the Frees.
@@tomm9850 thanks!!