Backcountry Telemark Skiing, Active Plastic and Xplore Setups
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2023
- Stephen and I ski the same line on two consecutive days, first using plastic downhill telemark boots with active bindings, then using soft XCD boots with the Xplore binding. Which setup looks like the most fun?
Day 1
Stephen: Voile Hyper V6 / Meidjo 3 / Scarpa TX Pro NTN
Tom: Voile Hyper V6 / Switchback X2 / Scarpa T2 75 mm
Day 2
Voile Objective BC and Voile HyperVector BC/ Xplore / Alfa Free
Stephen starts out on the Objectives and then we swap Xplore setups at 07:13
Beautiful skiing, Excellent video. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for tuning in and for posting. :)
Thanks for your videos, Tom, I've seen Stephen ski many times, but this was the first time with plastic boots. It really illustrated the difference in control as Stephen looked great just gliding nicely through his turns. Looks like an amazing place!
Stephen was a good sport letting me film him for this segment, especially on the second day when the snow was stiff. It was also the first time he had ever skied my HyperVector Xplore setup. It always takes a few runs for the brain to adjust to a new ski combination, but I was glad that he did as I think it helped to demonstrate the differences between the two setups. We also went on a great ski the following day on even lighter setups (Asnes FT62, SBound 98) I do have some video from that ski and it might make and interesting part 2.
Hi Tom, viewing from Australia! I used to ski backcountry on metal edged skis and leather boots back in the day… I have been thinking to get back into skiing 25 years later… love your videos.
The gear has improved a lot in 25 years, so much so that it would almost feel like magic. Take it easy at first if you jump back in and be careful until you regain your skill set. Thanks for tuning in and I hope you have a great winter.
@@tomm9850 thanks Tom. That is sage advice. I like your style. Cruising around and exploring the nature. Looks like a beautiful part of the world. I will browse your videos a bit more for advice and considerations for equipment etc. Australian conditions are different, and I’ll likely get some on the ground telemark lessons. Happy to hear any pearls you want to throw my way. I was never awesome, but let’s see if I can still have a cruise around. Have a great day Tom!
That slope must be a favorite of yours. It's the perfect angle and simply beautiful! I agree with your comments on gear selection but for me it's also whatever does not destroy my feet so distance is something I consider. I tend to bring my lighter gear for longer days and less concerned about how steep it it. There is no shame in skipping the tele turn if there is a chance I might hurt myself. I enjoy the ascent on lighter gear.
Thanks Campfire and I agree.
Wicked cool! Would love to get out with ya for a day next winter! You turned me into the Xplore setup and it really is an incredible step forward for the sport. Lovin' it! Nice turns!
Fantastic. What ski and boot combo do you have for your Xplore setup?
@@tomm9850 I'm on Voile Objective BC, with the Alfa Skaget boot. Love the combo, can't believe the power I can get out of this binding!
Great skiing Tom...
Thanks David. I'm looking forward to some more adventures with you this "off season"
Send it. That run looks amazing!
Thanks for tuning in and I appreciate the feedback. I hope you have a great week.
Thanks Tom. Lots of great info for my next skis.
I'm glad that you have found the channel useful. Thanks for tuning in and posting.
Thanks, Tom, for helping guide me into my first Telemark season in 2022-23. I now own five pair of tele skis and four pair of tele boots (including one amazing pair of leather boots for my 205cm / 62mm Asnes Nansen skis with Black Diamond cable bindings). After nearly 50 tele days on the hill, plus some alpine resort days, tele is starting to sink in. What a season across the west!
@WildMidwest1 It certainly was an amazing snow year in the Western US and it sounds like you are hooked. Thanks for sharing and for spreading your freeheel joy.
@@tomm9850 I did some backcountry skiing in your neighborhood - Caribou Targhee National Forest and Yellowstone NP. I had a wonderful deep powder telemark day in the NF around Grand Targhee on my 115 mm / 188 cm Rossignol Super 7 skis, and another amazing day on my Asnes 205 cm straight skis in the foothills east of Alta, WY. Your videos helped guide my technique and gear selection on the XCD side.
For my heavier big mountain tele gear, I ended up with two pair of 22 Designs Axl, one pair used 22D Hammerheads, two pair 22D Outlaw X bindings, and one pair Voile Switchback X2 (which came installed on my Rossi Super 7 skis from a ski swap at Alta, Utah.) I am less fond of Voile's X2 than my others due to ice buildup and their extreme weight. Switchback X2 are OK in the resort, maybe, but I prefer a more active binding. I might remove the X2 and install Outlaw X bindings next season on my Super 7.
Learning to ski the cantankerous 22D Outlaw X bindings was an interesting process I began in the last month of my tele season #1. I have much more learning to do there. Steering using my trailing foot on highly active NTN is at first counterintuitive. I removed the inner springs from the Outlaw X, which helped me transition from my 75 mm mindset. (The inner springs are probably needed for guys > 190 pounds, whereas I am only 165 pounds.) Spring removal is a tip I offer for people first starting with Outlaw X. They are appropriately named bindings - extremely unruly at first. You gradually figure out how to manage all that activity as your tele technique evolves.
I grudgingly came to the conclusion by the end of the season that AT gear may be preferable for at least some backcountry skiing. As mentioned in the video, tele bindings and boots are heavy. NTN bindings are getting lighter (Lynx, Meidjo, Voile Transit TTS) but plastic boots are stuck in the past. Scarpa has no incentive to innovate tele boots that compete with their AT lineup, and the only other boot manufacturer in the tele business (Crispi) has an unusual business model. I know some tele skiers who buy Scarpa AT boots and modify them to NTN - with mixed results. Even the lightest tele bindings are heavier than Marker Alpinists, let alone SkiMo tech bindings weighing < 150 g.
The other part of tele-vs-AT is snow conditions and hill angle. Tele turns on consolidated washerboard / hardpack mixed with sun-warmed North Tahoe goo was challenging last week. I would have felt more confident on it with my heels fixed, especially in the trees. A good place to test one's end-of-season skills?
Being a tele skier can be frustrating at times that's for sure. I've known a number of people over the years who have switched from tele to AT. Most of them still XC ski, but usually don their AT gear for anything other than a kick and glide tour, and that's OK by me. I don't know if we will ever get an equivalent lightweight plastic boot setup, but for me, tele is what makes me happy, and part of the charm is being a bit different from the mainstream.
Winter is upon us again. I can't wait for new content!
Thanks Craigeek. I'm looking forward to winter as well. Thanks for posting and I hope you are enjoying Fall.
That was awesome 👌 👏
Thanks for joining us on this outing.
Lovely!
Thanks for tuning in Jared and for coming along.
@@tomm9850 Looked like great stuff 🙂
I hope one day, when I am as young as you, I will be able to ski that well.
Young at heart for sure. Thanks for posting and I hope you are having a great week.
I’ve been very tempted by the Xplore system. Wondering how aggressive a turn one could make on it. And how wide a ski will they support. I used to ski with leather boots and vole cable bindings back in the day. Wondering how the Xplore compares.
Hi Ian. I really like the Xplore system for off trail XC skiing. If you no longer have your 75 mm system or need new equipment (especially boots), then you should probably consider an Xplore system. Skiing leathers with a cable has its own feel and that feeling is very different from skiing the Xplore system, even with the stiff flexor, but with the proper boot and ski, I think the downhill capabilities are similar. One thing is for sure, I prefer the kick and glide performance of the Xplore over 75 mm. I skied 75 mm and leathers for many decades, and I find that after two seasons on the Xplore, I don't see myself ever skiing a leather 75 mm boot with a cable binding in the future. If you haven't already, be sure to go back and watch the 3 videos I posted last fall on this topic.
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ua-cam.com/video/Ovx48kCVtzM/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/6ThgXnPONms/v-deo.html
Thanks for this video! Here in the U.S., telemark has almost entirely become exclusive to downhill skiing at resorts and in ski mountaineering. I started learning tele technique this winter for exactly the kind of terrain you skied in this video. I'm a XC skier first and for me, learning tele technique is just so I have a safer, better way to get down hills and steeper slopes as part of long-distance XC trips that include plenty of flat (or almost-flat) terrain. I have the Xplores and am loving them-and I've been wondering about how well Xplores work for doing tele turns?
An Xplore setup is perfect for the type of skiing you describe. This is my 3rd full season skiing Xplore combos. So far, I've not had any issues with durability or reliability and I'm very pleased with the performance. In regard to telemark, the system is fully capable given the right combination of boot, ski, terrain and snow conditions. I'm very fortunate in that I often ski fresh snow on moderate terrain, so I end up skiing my Xplore setups more than I do my plastic boot telemark setup. Many of the ski videos posted on my channel over the past couple of years were Xplore ski outings. Thanks for tuning in and for subscribing, and I hope you are having a great winter.
Make Tele Great Again!
:)
Question: Have you serviced the “grease” in the pins of your Xplore boots? I found the Rotefella video & kit to replace the “grease” in the boot pins and wonder if you service your pins.
Thank you very much for your channel. All your videos are informative and entertaining.
I have not lubed the pins and so far, knock on wood, haven't had any sticking problems. I saw the recent post www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5985 I hope the major retailers offer the kit here in the US at a reasonable price. I wonder if this procedure is more about filling the void around the spring with grease to minimize a pocket of freezing water than it is about lubrication. I sure hope the grease is a low temperature grease. If I pick up one next winter, I'll pop the tube into the freezer and see what happens.
Thanks Tom! I purchased a pair of Alfa Free boots (44) used from REI Re/Supply a few weeks ago and was wondering if servicing the pins might be a good idea. These used boots look brand new, must have been very lightly used. I just started backcountry cross country last season. I too found the Alpina Alaska (46) too tight and tried the Alfa Vista (44) based on your experience. My feet are much happier. Got the Alfa Free boots in anticipation of more downhill & learning Telemark turn next season.
Love the bicycle videos and the trip videos. Please keep it up!
@allenbrookshire9610 I do like both boots and tend to use the Vista for general purpose off trail XC skiing and the Free when I need a bit more downhill control. Thanks for posting and providing feedback. I lose most of my viewers during the summer, but that's my clue to take some time off from video production as well.
Nice skiing. Both seems like fun setups. In hindsight, perhaps you should have switched days? Standard flexor or hard flexor? I would definitely change to the hard flexor for downhill and skis like that, even if the standard flexor also works fine.
I had the hard flexor on the HyperVectors and I'm pretty sure Stephen's Objectives were also using the hard flexor. I have to admit, I was a bit surprised on how much the snow conditions had changed overnight, so it wasn't the best back to back comparison but I think it helped to emphasize the difference in power and control that each system offers.
Does winter ever end there tom? 😅 would be curious to seem someone following you guys with really narrow trail skis…
New Brunswick Canada 🇨🇦
We are now into full blown spring skiing. Skinny skis would definitely be a challenge on these slopes, but it would be possible under some conditions. Many years ago I would have been skiing this terrain on a set of Europa 77's with 3 pins and stiff leather boots. A few years ago, Stephen skied this same run on a set of NNNBC Asnes Ingstad with the Alfa Guard boots (84-62-74) and I've skied it many times on my Sbound 98's (98-69-88) with 3 pins and leathers.
Do you guys ever fall over? Just wondering if you edit it out ( which is fine) or it never happens. Serious question as I get older I am more and more fall averse.....this plays into the equipment decision too....I probably fall once every couple of days; its less likely on heavier gear but the speed is higher...not sure what is best.
Weve just had our first snow in Australia so my interest is increasing, not declining!
I do fall, but I ski with caution most of the time, especially when using an expensive camera that could be lost or damaged. I'm lucky in that the snow is often soft, deep and forgiving in my area, which helps. Most of my skiing is in the backcountry with little or no cell coverage and the consequences of an injury from a fall are magnified, so I try my best to minimize the risk. Even so, skiing is a risky business. My ski partner in this video ended up breaking his ankle in a fall a few weeks later skiing outabounds of a resort in Western Idaho. I'm definitely much more aware of how frail my older body is, so I tend to ski terrain that brings me joy and hopefully not injury. Just for fun, here is link to one of my falls from a few years ago. ua-cam.com/video/7Dx0Kl9r4h0/v-deo.html I sure hope you have a great snow year in Australia, and with that in mind, I'll post at least one more ski video for my Southern Hemisphere viewers. Stay tuned. :)
Thanks Tom, gee sorry to hear about your friend's broken ankle.
I look at your snow with envy - it's pretty rare we get conditions that good but as the saying goes the best snow in the world is always the snow under your skis. Have a good summer.
Tom, at what point do you consider switching to an AT set up for this kind of skiing? I’m sketched out on the idea of going down without a locked in heel. Is it preference, or is there a logical cut off based on degree of slope and/or other variables? Sorry for blowing up your comment section in like 3 different videos 😂 trying to learn!
I currently don't have the option to ski with my heel locked down. I've been a free heel skier for decades and that is what makes me happy. I have tried the alternative with rented and borrowed gear in the past, both at the resort and in the backcountry. If you are coming from a locked heel ski background and experience, then the logical choice would be to get set up with AT if your intent is backcountry downhill skiing on steep and difficult terrain. If your plans are mostly to tour in the backcountry on moderate or rolling terrain, then I think that an off trail cross country ski setup is the better choice. It will take some practice and learning to be able to feel comfortable skiing downhill without a locked heel, but there are times and conditions when a locked heel is just not necessary. Most of my friends ski AT gear when we are out in the backcountry "touring for turns". They love their gear and tend to use it instead of XC gear if the focus is downhill. They all have XC gear as well, and use it for kick and glide tours and rolling terrain. If you have watched my multiday ski tour video ua-cam.com/video/BdiR6FvFTBM/v-deo.html my ski partner is skiing AT gear and I'm skiing Voile Objectives / 3 pins / leathers. I did not bring along hardwires or cables for this trip. It takes some time to transition between the tour mode and the downhill mode with AT gear and I think it would be a pain for rolling terrain, but for many, having plastic boots and locked heels gives the control and confidence needed on the downhill. On the flats, the AT gear won't feel anything like Nordic XC gear, and what you gain on the downhill end of things your give up everywhere else, and that's OK, as most people use downhill skis when skiing AT, and downhill skis are not designed for long distance cross country tours. My AT friends move along just as fast on the flats and uphill as I do when I'm in my "downhill setup" (Voile Hyper V6's, Switchback X2, Scarpa T2 plastic boots). When I'm skiing my plastic boot telemark setup, I'm skiing downhill specific skis as well, not cross country skis. Their AT gear is actually lighter in weight than mine as AT skiers have access to lighter weight plastic boots and bindings. In that scenario, the main advantage I have is that I can switch between the downhill/uphill mode with the flip of a lever, and that is particularly useful with my "waxless" skis when I'm not using skins. I've been a free heeler for so long, it is hard for me to imagine skiing in any other fashion, but I've known a lot of people who have switched from telemark to AT. The common joke with my friends is that AT stands for "after telemark" :) I hope this helps, but it might just muddy the waters. Most people end up with a couple ski / boot combinations to cover both ends of the spectrum and that is typically a set for cross country and a set for downhill. Here is link to a video with a 2nd opinion on the AT vs Cross Country decision. ua-cam.com/video/DKkY__3LSfQ/v-deo.html
@@tomm9850, yes this makes so much more sense! Thank you for the clarification and advice.
By the way, can you tell us where this is? I'm dying to ski terrain like this! :-)
In this video, we are skiing in the Bridger National Forest of Western Wyoming, in the Fish Creek Ski area. It is a relatively small area, but it has some amazing and safe terrain for off trail cross country downhill skiing. www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/btnf/recreation/wintersports/recarea/?recid=82362&actid=91
Just watching the other guy, would he have been more stable in a lower stance. Seemed he used his poles for balance rather a lot.
Liked the comparison. How do you think your wife’s Excursion 88s would have performed for that test?
The Excursion 88 is a great off trail kick and glide XC ski. It is not a downhill ski by design so it would have been more challenging, especially on the second day when the conditions were less forgiving. Many people do ski this type of terrain using similar classed skis, so it is possible. Back in my early days of skiing, a ski like the Excursion 88 would have been a dream ski.
@@tomm9850making downhill turns on them is challenge. I often fall down. I can’t help but wonder how much the Xplore binding would help?
@Paul Melde If I recall, you were skiing NNNBC Madshus Glitterkind boots with your Excursion 88's last season. While I have not skied that combination, I'm betting it is a good setup for off trail XC skiing. If I were skiing that setup on the terrain shown in this video, it would look very different from the way we were skiing. All of the skis we were skiing are downhill skis and they are made for turning, and the turning ability and stability between a wide flat low camber ski without a center groove and the typical double cambered off trail cross country ski is like night and day. If I were skiing a setup like yours, I probably would have made more traverses across the steeper sections in order to keep the speeds down and to stay in control. I might even have used a step turn here and there in the trees, but most of the turns would have been long wide sweepers, similar to how we skied the initial slope at 0:30 I do like the Xplore binding paired with the Alfa Free boot and it would offer more support than your current setup, especially with the stiff flexor, but it would probably not be the huge leap in downhill performance on a set of 88's you are hoping for. If you are really looking for downhill performance (at the expense of good kick and glide), then you probably need to add a downhill focused ski to your quiver. In the mean time, find some good soft forgiving snow and a gentle slope and practice, practice, practice.