Been playing these two for a awhile now and have some hidden gems. Sword coast sailor, March of swirling mist, esior, monastery siege, illithid harvester, winged boots and karlach. I try and jam in the d&d cards wherever I can. You can ignore the majority of the coin flip cards. Protection, evasion, and ramp are just as important as coin flipping in the deck. You don't want to recast these commander so don't play them without protection first.
i know, what people like about okaun and Zndrsplt is the coinflip theme. So a lot of you may disagree, BUT if you want to build the deck more efficient and focused on winning rather than fun i think you can cut like.. 80% of the coinflip cards. Just keep the very best ones. okaun needs only 3(!) conflips for having enough damage to take one out by commander damage. 4 Coins for fling him to kill one. give him an artifact or aura with let's say +3/+0 then its only 2 coinflips. (3 for fling). The thing is: Okaun and Zndrsplt flip so many coins already that you dont need the additional coinflip stuff. Let's be honest: Most of the coinflip cards are crap
I’ve played both O&Z and Yusri, and got to say, Yusri is so much more consistent, fun, and makes the mechanic feel balanced. With Zndrsplt, it either gets sniped immediately or draws you too many cards to deal with. With Okaun, it usually gets Swords after you flipped your coins and it attacks, so without protection it doesn’t do much, but with protection it OHKO’s someone turn 4. Casting them again for 7 is not fun, but so is winning the game so resoundedly if they aren’t removed. Your games are either boring and long, or boring and short. Yusri isn’t much of a threat, is much cheaper, you always have the suspense of getting that Omniscience effect even with Krark’s Thumb, and I feel O&Z fits more in the 99 of Yusri rather than the other way around, because you want lifelink synergies for Yusri to mitigate the damage dealt to you. If someone wants to build a red blue coin flip commander deck, I recommend Yusri over O&Z 11 times out of 10.
I've played Mutalith Beast, love to see it here, it is a super fun card despite not being great. Something I would think about is leaning into the "chaos" theme rather than just the coinflip. I've added things like Wheel of Misfortune and the chaos polymorph for 5 mana from the WH decks to my chaos deck.
I played the Heads I Win deck and won 16 coin flips between the 2 commanders. The largest creature I have used in my life and was blocked by a 1/1. I sent a message though.
I went all in with the fling strategy with my deck and use a lot of copy spells to copy the fling effects but they also work well as counters to counterspells. Three times at magic30, I copied a players torment to win. Copy spells are so amazing and versatile.
Wand of Wonder is probably in the average list because a lot people see Okaun and Zndrsplt, think that would make a good Chaos deck, and then use cards like wand for example.
If you called heads where two headed Giant wants it to be heads then you'd win the coin flip making it not a terrible card. Winning the coin flip is based on what side you call. So if you always called heads then they would benefit anyway
I just unpacked the deck i bought on the secondary market and it was SEALED. I do not had the following cards in my deck: Two Headed Giant, Mana Clash Wand of Wonders Creepy Doll Fighting Chance Tide of War Just for starters
The strongest I got Okaun was 6 291 456/6 291 456 !. Another game I got to "only" 768/768 and wiped the table with Chandra's Ignition, it was glorious. Also, after playing my deck the last 2 years, I would suggest adding cards like Leyline of Punishment or Flairing Pain, etc. so damage can't be prevented. Great video as always!
I've upgraded the secret lair deck. So much fun. I ended up at over 22,000 in life. I've started taking more coin flip cards out for like irenaeus vile intervention. Play testing will tell if its better or better and less fun
Commander games can already drag on, I can't sit there and watch someone flip coins for the duration of the game. I'm taking them out first. Besides that, great video ❤️
"Brainstorm lock" isn't real. If you're in trouble and you draw Brainstorm, only for it to draw three cards that don't help you, then you were screwed anyway. If you topdecked those cards individually over the course of three turns, you wouldn't be any better off than if you'd Brainstormed into them. In that scenario, Brainstorm didn't lock you. Your rotten luck having three dead topdecks in a row locked you. All Brainstorm did was let you see it coming. Also, I'd totally have run Brainstorm in my O&Z deck, but I had a self-imposed rule that the only changes I'd make to the Secret Lair precon would be ones that improved the manabase or ones that swapped in more coin-flipping. Despite this, I'm still running like 15 shuffle effects, which would easily be enough for synergistic Brainstorm lines. :(
Your logic works in getting brainstorm or shit, not choosing between preordain and brainstorm when building a deck. It is more of, if I had preordain instead I would have not been fucked here, you know
@@Russian_engineer_bmstu I was going to say it's more nuanced than that, but really if you have a deck that just never shuffles or wheels and it's down to a choice of Brainstorm vs. Preordain, then the case is probably better for Preordain. You'll see fewer cards with it, but you'll get a second chance if they're bad topdecks. Notably, Preordain is in the Secret Lair precon, but both it and Ponder are absent from the averaged-out list here. That seems like a statistical artifact, though. The cards show up on O&Z's page, just not at high enough percentages to make it into the video.
Crooked Scales will never lose your commander unless you're in really bad shape. You choose both creatures. If your only creature is your commander you're probably gonna lose anyway. Still a good cut.
Looks like my comment with a deck link got deleted. Here are the changes I would make plus EDHREC's suggestions: Moxfield + /decks/H-NeasHMxU-gbnesG9z3UQ
I gained over 1000 life from one swing with a lifelinking Okaun the first time I played this deck. 10/10
My first game I was ready to fling him at everyone at the table. Then I lost 11 coin flips in a row, and passed the turn with 1 life.
Been playing these two for a awhile now and have some hidden gems. Sword coast sailor, March of swirling mist, esior, monastery siege, illithid harvester, winged boots and karlach. I try and jam in the d&d cards wherever I can. You can ignore the majority of the coin flip cards. Protection, evasion, and ramp are just as important as coin flipping in the deck. You don't want to recast these commander so don't play them without protection first.
i know, what people like about okaun and Zndrsplt is the coinflip theme. So a lot of you may disagree, BUT if you want to build the deck more efficient and focused on winning rather than fun i think you can cut like.. 80% of the coinflip cards. Just keep the very best ones. okaun needs only 3(!) conflips for having enough damage to take one out by commander damage. 4 Coins for fling him to kill one. give him an artifact or aura with let's say +3/+0 then its only 2 coinflips. (3 for fling). The thing is: Okaun and Zndrsplt flip so many coins already that you dont need the additional coinflip stuff.
Let's be honest: Most of the coinflip cards are crap
My favorite commander rn is Jon Irenicus, Shattered One, and itd be so cool to see your take it, I really love the show!
There's actually an article somewhere on edhrec's website with a decklist for Jon Irenicus using relentless rats! Pretty fun deck.
Such an amazing video my friend. Please keep up the good work and thank you for "Upping the Average"!!!!!!
I'm a newer magic player and I picked up the Heads I win precon deck and I've been waiting for this video to come out! Happy holidays guys and cheers!
I’ve played both O&Z and Yusri, and got to say, Yusri is so much more consistent, fun, and makes the mechanic feel balanced. With Zndrsplt, it either gets sniped immediately or draws you too many cards to deal with. With Okaun, it usually gets Swords after you flipped your coins and it attacks, so without protection it doesn’t do much, but with protection it OHKO’s someone turn 4. Casting them again for 7 is not fun, but so is winning the game so resoundedly if they aren’t removed. Your games are either boring and long, or boring and short.
Yusri isn’t much of a threat, is much cheaper, you always have the suspense of getting that Omniscience effect even with Krark’s Thumb, and I feel O&Z fits more in the 99 of Yusri rather than the other way around, because you want lifelink synergies for Yusri to mitigate the damage dealt to you. If someone wants to build a red blue coin flip commander deck, I recommend Yusri over O&Z 11 times out of 10.
Why did I not get notified of this? I love these two!
I've played Mutalith Beast, love to see it here, it is a super fun card despite not being great. Something I would think about is leaning into the "chaos" theme rather than just the coinflip. I've added things like Wheel of Misfortune and the chaos polymorph for 5 mana from the WH decks to my chaos deck.
I played the Heads I Win deck and won 16 coin flips between the 2 commanders. The largest creature I have used in my life and was blocked by a 1/1. I sent a message though.
I went all in with the fling strategy with my deck and use a lot of copy spells to copy the fling effects but they also work well as counters to counterspells. Three times at magic30, I copied a players torment to win. Copy spells are so amazing and versatile.
Finally, a deck where I can run mana crypt without feeling guilty
Wand of Wonder is probably in the average list because a lot people see Okaun and Zndrsplt, think that would make a good Chaos deck, and then use cards like wand for example.
Would going so much into coin flipping be too commander reliant?
Turn 7 I won around 23 coin flips with thumb. That was around 25,165,824 commander damage coming in unblockable because of slip through space
If you called heads where two headed Giant wants it to be heads then you'd win the coin flip making it not a terrible card. Winning the coin flip is based on what side you call. So if you always called heads then they would benefit anyway
Please don't teach coinflip players how to up the average, they already win and lose in luck, we don't need to help them out any more 😆
Right hate this deck , and they say they love it haha
I just unpacked the deck i bought on the secondary market and it was SEALED.
I do not had the following cards in my deck:
Two Headed Giant,
Mana Clash
Wand of Wonders
Creepy Doll
Fighting Chance
Tide of War
Just for starters
The strongest I got Okaun was 6 291 456/6 291 456 !. Another game I got to "only" 768/768 and wiped the table with Chandra's Ignition, it was glorious. Also, after playing my deck the last 2 years, I would suggest adding cards like Leyline of Punishment or Flairing Pain, etc. so damage can't be prevented. Great video as always!
I think people see these commanders as silly and low power but as soon as they get out krark’s thumb the deck is very very strong
There was a guy who played a version of this in a cEDH tournamen and got sweet results
Awesome video. Any updates? Also... what do I take out to swap Mana Crypt in?
Can you do a Koma cosmos serpent deck high in mana value and want to see how you go about it
With the bone stock Secret Lair deck I did 1,000,000 damage to someone and then 2,000,000 to another player in the same turn
Hey @Joey can you do the dice commander Wyl next?
Finally! 🙏💃🏽😍
I've upgraded the secret lair deck. So much fun. I ended up at over 22,000 in life. I've started taking more coin flip cards out for like irenaeus vile intervention. Play testing will tell if its better or better and less fun
Commander games can already drag on, I can't sit there and watch someone flip coins for the duration of the game. I'm taking them out first. Besides that, great video ❤️
It should also be mentioned that (though not cost neutral) Mana Crypt is an all-start here.
ral zerak is also a nonbo with these guys. not sure why he makes the average decklist...
Please make a Lathril Redux, you didn't make a budget deck tech.
But what about Rooooooooooon?!?!
Tilonalli's Crown has done work for me. 2 Mana for evasion and now I only need 2 coin flips for lethal.
Fighting chance can also be cast when you're not even involved in the combat. Play it like Berserk. ;)
Rip Ral. :c
I'd rather not play MTG at all than be held hostage for 15 minutes a turn while someone flips coins using this deck
Williams Jennifer Hernandez Sharon Martinez Edward
"Brainstorm lock" isn't real. If you're in trouble and you draw Brainstorm, only for it to draw three cards that don't help you, then you were screwed anyway. If you topdecked those cards individually over the course of three turns, you wouldn't be any better off than if you'd Brainstormed into them. In that scenario, Brainstorm didn't lock you. Your rotten luck having three dead topdecks in a row locked you. All Brainstorm did was let you see it coming.
Also, I'd totally have run Brainstorm in my O&Z deck, but I had a self-imposed rule that the only changes I'd make to the Secret Lair precon would be ones that improved the manabase or ones that swapped in more coin-flipping. Despite this, I'm still running like 15 shuffle effects, which would easily be enough for synergistic Brainstorm lines. :(
Your logic works in getting brainstorm or shit, not choosing between preordain and brainstorm when building a deck.
It is more of, if I had preordain instead I would have not been fucked here, you know
@@Russian_engineer_bmstu I was going to say it's more nuanced than that, but really if you have a deck that just never shuffles or wheels and it's down to a choice of Brainstorm vs. Preordain, then the case is probably better for Preordain. You'll see fewer cards with it, but you'll get a second chance if they're bad topdecks.
Notably, Preordain is in the Secret Lair precon, but both it and Ponder are absent from the averaged-out list here. That seems like a statistical artifact, though. The cards show up on O&Z's page, just not at high enough percentages to make it into the video.
Crooked Scales will never lose your commander unless you're in really bad shape. You choose both creatures. If your only creature is your commander you're probably gonna lose anyway. Still a good cut.
Looks like my comment with a deck link got deleted. Here are the changes I would make plus EDHREC's suggestions:
Moxfield + /decks/H-NeasHMxU-gbnesG9z3UQ