Medicinal Taste - Phenols - Off Flavours in Beer
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Ben Cull looks at phenols which are what cause medicinal or band-aid off-flavours in beers. He also explains how to avoid these issues by removing chlorine using campden tablets.
Great video! I live about 40 kilometers from Leuven and had that issue in many of my beers. And about Duvel we have a saying: Drank is den Duvel en Duvel is den drank!
Excellent video. Good reasoning and simple explanation
Your videos are always interesting and informative, as well as being different from what others are putting out. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for this mate, I've just lost my 2nd batch to suspected chlorophenol :(
Wow thanks for the info. I did a quick google and found out Toronto uses both chorine and chloromine to treat the water. Ill be using camden for now on
Great explanation of phenolics vis a vis homebrewing Belgiums.
Good video. I would also add that mash-in temperature can be used to help control the ferulic acid precursor to phenols in Belgian-strain beers. No ferulic acid, no phenols.
Avoiding ferulic acid rest temperatures (~115F) by mashing in above 140F can reduce ferulic acid production in the mash and thereby reduce phenol production.
Fascinating! I might revisit my lazy cold sparge method which would be putting grain at exactly that rest temp. Thanks :)
Great video, very informative. That stereo microphone is excellent.
Great video. Thanks for the help
Great presentation on your vids subscribed
Good video and good information.
I prefer to use reverse osmosis water from the local grocery store. I generally have 10 gallons on hand for brew day. It did
require the purchase of two 5 gal containers but after that it's only 39cents a gallon. You can then modify the water profile to suite your needs, if you wish.
Cheers.
+PinHolePip Thanks :) I've heard of this being a good alternative, if only they did that near me. Do you have a "go to" water addition profile, or do you change it up based on the beer you're brewing?
+Mash Hacks To bad you don't have that handily available. The owner of a local brew shop turned me onto this and I have to say my beers are better for it. Now if only I can get better.
My brews so far are primarily IPA's so my additions are simple and designed to help both the hop and grain characteristics (as advised by my local brew shop owner). For a typical 5 gallon batch I'll use 3/4 teaspoon calcium chloride and 3/4 teaspoon gypsum. I mix them then use half the mixture in my strike water and the other half in the sparge. I made no calculations. This is all trial and error.
I'd have to research for what kind of additions for a pilsner. I doubt it would be the same.
Duvel is such a frickin awesome beer!
Oh that last few seconds, the happy beer bubbling away up front while your brew in the background... so sad. Great finish cut! Enjoyed the video, but note--the annotation regarding phenols vs. esters doesn't appear on the video when you're discussing banana character. Cheers!
To remove chloramine: 3:56
0.6g Sodium Metabisulphite per 75L (20 gal)
0.7g Potassium Metabisulphite per 75L (20 gal)
Long ago since you made an video. Hope you havent stop make them :-)
One coming in the next hour in fact :)
1:00 - sorry, but banana flavour isn't phenol, it's ester called isoamyl acetate
fermentation temperature and pitching rate also deal with ester production, while phenol production is caused solely by genetics. You'll never get them from say us-05 (unless you have wild yeast contamination, because wild yeasts are usually phenol-positive), but will always get them from german weizen and most belgian strains.
Anyway, I find both recommendations absolutely valid and useful, thanks for your videos! And I admire Duvel as well! Cheers!
+Maxim Sultakov You're right! Sorry about that :) I've updated the video with an annotation to correct.
+Maxim Sultakov as far as I know, is correct about phenolic production being based on genetics alone. I've been looking for data that supports that temperature or pitch rate effects POF+ yeasts, but have been unable to do so. I know that Brettanomyces phenol production is independent of pitch rate (based on a study done by Lance Shaner from Omega labs), and I would guess that Saccharomyces is the same. I'd love to learn more about it though!
+Dan ABA I only have my experience for temp and pitch rates causing more phenols. Especially temp. I'd be super curious myself for some actual data supporting (or refuting) the claim.
Does sodium metabisulphite degrade; have a best before date? Is it possible to over treat with sodium metabisulphite.
+eddydogleg I think the powder form is pretty stable, as long as it stays dry. So you should be fine to keep it for years. Yes it's possible to over treat, especially with the sodium version. A little over is fine, but once you start getting to 4x dosage, you risk off flavours (too much sodium) and even killing your yeast (it's used in wine making to kill bugs and preserve the wine).
Even Duvel taste like medicine to me.
Ok. Why has beer or any other drinking alcohols been informed to the public that it may cause cancer, but it has anti cancer properties such as phenols, other profiles and other reagents?
Well I love the Leffe Belgian blond Ale. However I have not been able to find the yeast that will give me that wonderful Leffe taste yet. Do you have any suggestions?
I've had good success with Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II. It gives a nice Belgian blonde/tripel flavour. If you can get your hands on one, I highly recommend you try a Westmalle Tripel. It's one of my favourite Belgian beers, after Duvel of course :)
Hi Ben, What yeast did you use on your clone ?
Have you got a link to your Duvel clone recipe? It's one of my favourites and would love to give it a go!
Sure do: www.brewtoad.com/recipes/duvel-is-in-the-details My advice would be to keep the yeast at a slightly lower temp than you think. They really do put off some heat and tasty yeasty flavour compunds :)
Mash Hacks Many thanks!
How much is a bottle of Duvel in Belgium? It's like $6 here in Australia.
I usually pick up an 8-pack for about 7 euros at the supermarket. I'm going to be very sad once I don't have access to super cheap Duvel anymore!
That's like $10 for an 8-pack. So cheap!
What about using rain water?
Rain water should be fine, though you might have to double check your ph. Make sure there's no floaties either :)
I just made my first batch of American Pale Ale and I think I may have done something wrong. I tasted it after the primary fermentation which looked like it went well and it tastes aweful. Very bitter with hop taste. I used water out of a snowmelt stream - very clean but I think it may have been too "hard". I understand that can cause bitterness or it may have been ph. I may have pitched the yeast when the wart was too hot. I let it sit overnight like you recommended but when I felt the wart termperature by touch it was still warm. I bottled it anyway for secondary fermentation and was advised to let it sit for a few months to see it it comes right. So many variables. But the water quality and yeast pitching temp will be what I monitor more carefully next batch.