🤔 Why Valve Clearances are VERY IMPORTANT 🤔 Tight Valves VS LOOSE Valves ticking
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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Great job, with good model demonstration!... except for a few mistakes if you don't mind them being noted... But first, the main reason to limit valve lash is because a valve with excessively loose clearances will not be pushed open far enough by the cam to flow the amount of air required for full power. The result would be the same if the cam lobes were worn down.
Now for the mistakes. While you did admit that tight valve clearances will prevent the valve from sealing properly at the seat, you said at 4:58 that it will "not create any damage to the motor." Wrong. Tight valves are far more damaging than loose valves because the seats will quickly become burned and ruined due to being held open during combustion (especially in diesels). The hot gasses pass through the gap, overheat and erode the seats.
On the flip side, at 7:20, you said that a valve that is only "resting on its seat" in the head and not on the cam, is a problem. You said that the springs will place all their force into pulling the valve into its seat, and this will cause the valve and seat to wear prematurely. Sorry, but this is completely false.
The springs pulling the valve into its seat completely every time it closes, is the only way a valve system can work properly. The valve and seat wear is part of the design. OEM's have found that if they make the valves too hard so they don't wear, they just break. Intake valves are normally softer than exhaust valves though, so the intake valves will sink into the head sooner and the intake lash will the first to get too tight. Having "a loose gap" as you say, is not one of the worst things for your engine and it will not increase valve and seat wear.
The only thing you can do to prevent valve wear is to make sure your thermostat is working ok and at the highest temp range allowed by the OEM. This will keep heat levels up and dissipate carbon. Carbon is what wears out the valve guides, which in turn causes premature valve and seat wear, because the valves wobble around at odd angles in the seat. Yes, loose tappets are what makes that rattling noise under deacceleration and this needs to be corrected by adjusting the valves, but it is not as bad as tight valves. Loose tappet noise should not be confused with detonation rattle which will be during acceleration.
Next, you reiterate the whole flawed theory of the cam needing to contact the tappet at all times by referencing a very small problem and making it out to be a large problem; that is, valve lash causing tappet and valve stem wear from the bucket being too loose. Yes it is true that valve components are more easily harmed by excessive valve lash and the hammering effect of any bucket movement beyond clearance spec, but the fact is, that there must always be some movement there. In other words, the wear you mentioned is always happening even when the clearances are set to spec. It is just easier for bucket-float to exasperate the hammering effect when the lash is excessive. There will be an increase in the wear rate like a hammer smashing a nail, as you rightly said, but you cannot get rid of that motion or you will have the much worse issue of burnt valve seats from the valve not fully seating. Keep in mind almost all these principles are the same with the the adjustable rocker and push-rod engines as well.
Lastly, while it's true that cold engine spec clearances are designed to account for the expanding metallurgy in a hot motor, the gaps are not completely taken up by the temp changes. Some proof that the lash never gets completely tight when hot can be seen in this: many engine manuals list the valve setting specs for a hot engine, as well as a cold engine, and those specs are only slightly different from each other. There is always still plenty of gap, even with a hot engine in operation, so that may simply be another misunderstanding.
Also, no one should confuse the above system with hydraulic lifters. They do indeed always place some pressure on the cam or rocker, thus there is no lash clearance and no adjustment needed. However, when the cam profile is not in position to move the valve, the oil pressure in the lifter is never more than the valve spring force. The valve always fully seats in the head properly as mentioned above. Thus the lifter system is just slightly different. Thanks for reading.
Great points
@@vegasromaniac Thank you. Great job on the riding videos. Keep up the good work!
wow....your smart. thanks for your super long instruction. you need do videos your ownself too.. now i know even more about ny 79 gs850g suzuki and its rattling jangling sounds coming from my engine. i think worn valves will also cause back firing especially with new extra non stock free flow exhaust pipes
Although your explanation is perfect. The saying has always been that loose valves are better than tight valves because tight valves can be bent due to excess forces and loose valves are less detrimental.
Awesome video.
Even my 2stroke brain was able to understand that.
That's why I o worked a whole day for that wood model..
2 stroke brain???? lol
I have been looking for so long! so many videos of people trying to explain it but they use actual motorcycle engine in the video. This doesn’t help me understand what is happening. Your model has helped immensely and I have so grateful you took the time to put it all together and explain everything fully.
I just bought a honda and like you said, the exhaust valves are too tight. (spec for .011”, it is currently at .004”). I have never replaced a shim before, so I am anxious about doing it. Because of your video, I understand how important it is to have the correct clearances. I look forward to your other videos.
This is really nicely explained. Many people have no idea what is going on inside their four stroke engine. I love the model.
I was afraid I'm gonna get a kit if hate mail for that model , but people seems to like it
Couldn't agree with you more
Let me guess Cowboy, you know what's going on inside your 4 stroke engine? 💀
@@professorscrim5303 after many years of working on engines and reading books about them, yes, I know what's going on inside 4 stroke AND 2 stroke AND Rotary engines.
@@RealSuburbanCowboy Never would of guessed...
Fantastic illustration, well-done 👍
Awesome! This is the one of the best and very excellent way of demonstration i ever seen like this. You are a genius & i just love it. Well done! I highly appreciate your exceptional ability & thinking this idea behind tappet/valve clearance. Thank you so very much for all this explanation & visualization.
Awesome thanks for watching
Thank you for making this video. Now I appreciate the necessity of adjustment even more.
This was a great explanation! Thank you!
Perfect explanation thankyou for taking the time to go into such detailed presentation cheers
Thanks , it was a bit of work but glad you guys liked it
Great teaching 👍
THANK YOU.. Well Done.
excellent explanation and tools - thank you very much
Glad you liked it
Thanks. All super clear-ances.
And what happen when you don’t have gap at 1.2 and change the valve and still got no gap whit a shims 1.2 ?
Fantastic video
If the cam and tapplet bucket have wearing because the valves have never been shimmed can the be valve be bad ass well or the springs?
excellent!! thanks a lot
thank you so much for the info.
Helps me out ill be doing valve check here soon
It sure does help when you know what you are actually doing
So if my bike makes that weird ticking noise, almost like some metal parts are loose, but is only really noticeable at around 6-7k rpm (redlines at 9k), is it safe to assume the valve clearance is too loose ?
It sure can be valves, also the chain tensioner might be the problem I would open it and look inside
Mechanic stethoscope
Is there any typical symptoms of too loose valves besides ticking sound? Is there any?
Loose valves don't don't much, bike runs fine, just you get a ticking sound, problem is that the valves are wearing out fast so it's actually really bad for the lice of the motor
can u explain why infront crankcase get blown up..what the cause
I'm not sure what you ask.. Explain a but more. Never heard of that
@@vegasromaniac aaaaa...sorry for my bad english..
what I ask is,what cause blown crankcase..is it blow by?lack of lubrication?overheat?or other reason..
I believe every person on earth needs teachers like you. Imagine if everyone had someone like you to explain situations explained on multiple levels. I now understand the motions, use and how valves may present themselves working and or not. Thank you
I'm glad you enjoyed it
Great video. One caveat to potentially add is I've read that tight valves can sometimes be a huge problem with exhaust valves, because they get much hotter than intake valves, and dissipate most of their heat when they contact the valve seat, so there's the potential to burn exhaust valves if they don't fully close. Not sure if this happens much on motorcycles or not, but it could be a factor.
Good to know
So many veteran mechanics have no clue why there needs to be a gap. Thermal expansion. Congrats to you for knowing how valve gaps really work.
Thanks for the kind words ...
For my small motocycle 150cc (130k km milege) the factory value is 0.10 in & 0.15 ex but its to loose & produce noisy sound from the head, so i just do 0.5 in & 0.10 ex, the noise go away but i feel the engine loose some compression & power…where the wrong have i done? Shud i go more tighter clearance for in as 0.03 and 0.06 for ex?
This is an awesome explanation and it helped me to better understand exactly what's going on with valves and shims. The model helped out a lot too! Thanks!
Thanks for watching, glad it worked
Thank you for taking the time to do this! I'm in the middle of re-shimming my F4i and this really helped me understand exactly what is happening with the engine and why. Your comment about Honda was spot on! Almost all of mine were tight...
Awesome man, glad it helped you out
IS JUST NEEDS OIL IS JUST NEEDS OIL IS JUST NEEDS OIL IS JUST NEEDS OIL IS JUST NEEDS OIL IS JUST NEEDS OIL , that is my dad and he change the oil every 1000 km and never do valves
Wrong wrong wrong wrong... Wrong..
good work, now the 2 stroke guys can understand..
Or the people that fear 4 stroke because of that..
Or buy a 2 stroke an never worrie about valves again 🤣.
Yeah, you are right once you check the piston every 50 hours make sure the skirts are not cracked, you check the clearance on the reed valves, replace the header pipe seals, check compression, mix fuel every weekend, have constant fuel anxiety , yeah after you get over that, it's easy.
@@vegasromaniac Still better then dropping valves, and replacing cases 🤣🤣.
@@GladiusJon haha love the banter. The old argument of 2 stroke or 4 stroke. I like a 125 2 stroke just for fun but 4 stroke is just an awesome machine. Valves are annoying though for sure
@@MidWestMX haha I love giving him shit. Cause he gives it right back 😂👍
@@GladiusJon he always gives me shit! haha
Great explanation! My 2001 honda cbr 600 f4i really needs valve adjustment. Very hard cold starts. Currently 24k miles.
It's not really enough milage. Have you checked compression? Lots of people do more harm than good changing shims. Heads 'grow' as they heat up. A new valve train is always gonna be better than adjustment
I can't seem to get rid of the ticking from the left side exhaust and intake valves on my 99 honda xr400r. I have adjusted them three times to spec(.01 int and .012 exhaust). Could it be that I didn't Lap my new valves enough and they are seating the stem too high? I replaced the cam chain so while I was in there I chose to replace the valves and get a new clutch and heavier clutch springs. Other than the ticking, it runs really well. Could I just bottom out the valves so they barely touch and tighten then down to see what's happens?? Any input is appreciated. I can always post a video so you can all chime in if you like. Cheers
Maybe broken spring?
I love your visual but lol remove the Georgia pacific sticker!
:D
Thanks for the explanation, I've had some advice to only change the oil and leave the valves. But today I've checked and aligned my exhaust valve because it was a little tight.
Awesome
I went from the Darkness in to the Light with that one 👍
Hi ace video so I am right that the valves tighten up more when hot ?
yes when hot the gap goes away
Great video, thanks. Question: so if you have screw type adjusters, not shims and you have a loose clearance, that causes wear mostly on the seating right? as the top shim wont "fly off" when the valve is forced back up by the spring?
Yes, same rule apply as in the video
The best explanation of how valves work I ever came across that I can follow and understand, great job bro
Happy to have you here
What actually wears out to cause the valves to get tight/loose? Is it the shim?
nice.. 2 thumbs up for this one
Thanks.. I have a couple of more coming out..
thank you for this very informative and easy to digest content. im watching 5 years after the upload and this is video is more informative than others. thanks a lot
one of the cylinders of my 750 magna has a different sound.......its like pak pak pak pak sound similar to bouling water....while the other 3 has normal motorcycle sound bog bog bog bog
If I take your theory of a wide gap closing down with heat expansion, then the ticking should go away being a more tighter gap. But if I widen the gap, the tick goes away. Where I tighten the gap past the blueprinted center number it ticks. Go play with the valve gap and learn the hard way when the tick kicks in. Signed, NOLTT (no one listens to turtle).
This explanation was masterful! Only one question: Why even have a shim, instead of simply a longer valve stem? Does the valve stem and/or shim shorten with use? Thanks!
Replacing the shim with spring coil? Maybe! Just a wild thought. After watching tons of vids on valve adjustments. I start to feel this shim thing can be replaced with spring (certain lb/in).
I really appreciae this demonstration. This is helping me to understand my motorcycle top end. Thanks very much!
Great vid bro! I've been trying to understand this valve stuff. Now I know why I'm hearing the noises I'm hearing. Thanks! 🤙🏿🙏🏿👌🏿
This is so clear to understand, it's just amazing. Thank you!
Tight valves from valve wear definitely is harmful. Eventually the valve is burned. Hot gas blows by the valve like a cutting torch!
Don’t forget to tight of a valve you will burn a valve because no heat transfer because the valve is not contacting the valve seat. Either way is bad news. I check valve clearance all the time. Takes about 10 minutes to check. Little longer if you have to re shim
Yes very good habbit to check
Wait how do u check it? By the sound? As in like a pre ride check?
With heat expansion on steel valves would this be calculated differently to stainless and titanium valves due to the different metal properties and expansion factors on the metal just so thing to ponder on. I was just asking this question due to the shimming guide is the same for all valves you would think the shimming guide on clearances would be different for stainless vs steel due to the expansion difference
Pretty well explained... thanks. For even better understanding try using “this can be demonstrated by... “ rather than “this is achieved by...”.
great video, but what i don't understand is why you are focusing on the case if you have a bigger shim ? but wouldn't be never the case ? I mean logically if you never adjusted them before the shims are geting eaten overtime they won't grow bigger so the main issue will be having too much of gap and not no gap. Correct me if i am wrong. Then the second issues comes when you miss adjusted the shims and put a bigger one which will cause the no gap problems.
If you're with a few thousandths off, will that cause a tick? Im adjusting the valves on my kids 50cc and its very difficult to get the feel gauge out of the valve once I get the right setting. I'm fairly sure I'm very close but I hear a tick.
Help! Just built a racing atv engine with high compression and upgraded dual springs per valve. I set the clearances at the tighter end of spec. Someone said I did it backwards and I should be at the looser end of spec b.c. the clearances will shrink over time. So right now it's at the end of its limit spec wise and the motor hasn't been fired. Now it's still in spec though mind u. But my issue is it has an auto decompression pin for e start. I think the new upgraded springs r too strong and not letting the pin open open exhaust valve enough to relieve some compression. When I turn it over it stops at tdc because of compression. The pin is working but something is causing the exhaust valve to not open. Would too tight of clearances cause this with stiff racing springs? If I do drop the shim size for slightly larger clearances on the decompression valve, should I match the same clearances to the other exhaust valve?
👀👂🤛🏾 awesome teaching...I learned valuable information. 🏁🏁🏁🏁
Can this cause slow acceleration and when I open throttel open the revs don't go up the bike just moves slow. The run runs fine just any revs befor 7k revs hardly moves the bike.
If you have valve clearance AND can start the bike, you'll burn up the valve seats, because hot blowby.
You definitely have convinced me to fix my valve noise but why are mine quiet when the engine is cold and only get loud when the engine is warmed up ? ( I assume it's the oil thinning out when it gets hot but I'm not sure. )
ok the how we know the correct setting tappet bike manual said 0.4 - 0.7mm how do i know which is correct ?
Even if there was a university for dirt bike they wouldn't teach it as well as you.
Congrats.
Heat is the biggest enemy to your valves.... water in your oil will cause an increase in heat, paper oil filters will collected normal occurring moisture in your oil. How about we revisit you oil study and stainless oil filter.....
Same issue. I corrected mine with proper torqued spark plugs. This fix high engine temperature issue and die with throttle when bike is hot.
so, is it safe to say if my bike starts fast, has good power and makes no valvetrain noise all is well?? and I have a Honda CB1100 2014
Now I have a ticking 4 stroke outboard to re shim the valves to its correct specs, when motor is cold.
I bought a bike from a guy with the cylinder head off and he had new valves and springs but didn’t never had shims in it so idk what shim to put in it ??? Any help ?
So doesn't mostly all of your wear appear on the valve or the valve seat and then it wears up into the head you have to put bigger shame in to keep the valve open
Great explaining and accurated model, I aprecciate this content you have made
Very good video could you tell me why a car cut's out when valve's are to tight and get's up to temp please. PS I love the model you made.
So why would you not wait until you see symptoms of tight or loose valves instead of checking them periodically?
Race engines run tighter valves as a motorcycle tech I had to adjust them every race they’d wear so much in one race they’d not even start!!
That was a great presentation and description of shim function and why taping noice happens. Awesome demonstration
Is it ok to set tappet loose after a fresh engine rebuild? the idea is to let valve seat to adjust properly cause they were built new too.
Great video. Good info and descriptions!
Tha KS for watching
That wooden model is spectacular superb in it's awesomeness.
excellent video!!! if spec is 0.10-0.20, is it better to adjust close to 0.10 or 0.20?
In the middle as possible
Excellent presentation. I understand it much better now. Thanks
Thanks Bruh awesome 3d modelling and explanation first class 😎
This is an amazing video, thanks very much for making it!
VERY VERY well explained, that was a great way to explain that. great job
You made a good visual representation of why valve clearance checks and adjustments are very important. I hope those that think valve clearance is not important find your video. Valve clearance adjustment is one of the first maintenance items I do on any new to me motorcycle.
Hello, little bit loose valve clearance is good or bad?
Bad, it the valves gap is bigger than recommended when cold the valve smashes in to the seat and cause premature Weare and taie
@@vegasromaniac the recommend clearance is 0.4 mm to 0.6mm for inlet valves, then 0.7mm causes problem?
Thanks alot for this video. You did a great job condenses a complex problem. Question: I have a cbr600rr that works completely fine when cold, but the moment it gets up to operating temp, it has a very rough idle. Rpms will surge between 500 and 2000 when stopped. When you go to accelerate, it starts bucking. Do you think valve clearance could be a culprit?
I've changed my ignition coils, spark plugs, air filter, fuel pump and removed all aftermarket parts. Any info helps, thx!
Yes valves will be important also I would check for air leaks usually the air leaks happen between the motor and the EFI system or the carburetor So is that rubber booth that you have in between them and if air gets sucked through there it changes the way that the fuel mixture works and that could be also a problem
Thanks man, really appreciate it.
masterful explanation. thank you kindly!!
Best description of valve clearances I've found. Like the three bears, not too big, not too small, just right.
Glad you liked it
This was the best visual demonstration I’ve ever seen
So how far out of spec would these problems start occurring? Considering that I can only find shims in 0.05mm increments, my clearances may end up 0.01-0.02mm wider. Would that be a problem?
If you are in spec you are fine the tolerance for the valves are always over 0,05mm so you will always find the right one that will fit . If you run out of available shims too thick or thin the valve it's gone , you need a new valve
just explained perfectly. thank you for the efforts ❤
i built a trx 300 and a predator 500. both of them snapped a valve.. both ran great when leaving my shop. but both owners insisted on using used valves/used heads... i did de carbon the valves and visually inspect them. and they looked OK. what makes them snap man?? i guess i will no longer give people the option to use USED valves/heads?? because it's costing me....
Yeah that's why repairs at the mechanic cost so much, you guys need to cover your ass, and after you give the bike back the people ride like idiots becayee they have warranty,. When you do it fornyihrself you get away with a lot of stuff, used valves are OK, but I wouldn't move one used valve from. One engine to another... Snapped valve usually happens when the timing chain skips.. Otherwise I don't see what can cause it...
If valves clearance is to tight it can still make a ticking sound right ?
whoever hit the dislike button was holding their screen upside-down... the only explanation :}
Haha
Very well explained. Finally understood what’s happening with my bike. Thanks a bunch.
Awesome
found your channel through the commentsection of "The Workshop". great video, i'll look into more of your content.
Yeah great guy, him and I we had a little debucle a while back was fun. Thanks for watching
Bro really loved it. We have in India the Yamaha Fz 25, 250 cc xt 250 engine. All users report coin rattling noise from engine. And it's said that it is caused by tappets. Yamaha set the tappets in such a way that make noise but manage engine heat better. It's the character of the engine, but majority riders don't like it
Good to know..
So, unlike an engine with pushrods and rocker arms, where you adjust the gap between the rocker arm and valve, these engines, you change the valve shim to get the desired valve gap?
Yes
Thanks bro this video is so hopeful thank you
Can you please use a donut and some chocolate bars for demo next time
I’m pretty sure there’s a range for the tolerance to be within. When a valve goes out of clearance spec does that valve tend to go out of spec the same way? Either always tend to go loose or always go tight? Or is it random? If it’s predictable does that mean if the clearance is too large you could set it to the lower of the range and if it’s too tight, set it to the higher of the range? That way it stays in spec longer? Or is it best to try to put it in the middle? Thx
Exhausts always loosen. Intakes always tighten. If you find tight exhaust valves it means the exhaust valves have burnt the seat and receded into the head. So thats a variable. If one valve is stuck open. Its bent or snapped and in your piston. Those are the variables
I recently shimmed my 2017 CRF250R, and I went on the high side of the spec clearance. I think I went a little to loose, because I am getting some audible ticking noise for the valve train. I only ran it for a few hours, so I doubt it did any damage, but after seeing this I am going to open it back up and shim them tighter.
Also check timing chain and tensioner .. sound can happen there
@@vegasromaniac Yea, the tensioner seemed to be in perfect shape when I removed it. I have also watched a video of the noise from a bad tensioner, and that sounded different. Ill keep it in consideration if reshiming doesn't resolve the issue.