18650 24v Ups Hack pt1 Build, Setup and Discharge Test
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- 7s9p 18650 Hack on a APC Spart-UPS 1000!!! Works Awesome!!! The pack is made using the unused 1900ma cells and it comes in at roughly 17.1amps. At 3.6v nominal, the pack has about 430.1 WA. This Hack was recommended by another UA-camr emceh from the 12v 18650 APC UPS Hack Video. Any test or changes you might want to see differently, let me know. Hope you enjoy! Thanks for Watching!!!
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I really like the zig zacking with the fuze wire... my first attempt would most likely have been something silly like cutting them to length first and then soldering... yeah the fiddely and slow way.
Glad i saw this before i did something similar.
Yeah it makes it go a lot faster for sure :) Soldering my regular fuses takes a while on my bigger packs.
* The nice thing about putting the cells inside the UPS shell is that if something goes wrong with the cells and they ignite, it's already in a steel container. 😀
* Interesting thing about using the vice and drill to straighten the wire is the wire seems to get stiffer.
* I like how you do your fuse wire soldering. Just start at one spot and then just basically connect each cell until you get done, then come back and cut out the ones you don't want connected 👍
* For the busbar->stranded wire connections, you could take the busbar wire and put it inside the strands and then compress the connector around the joint.
* Wouldn't unplugging from the wall be "Dis-Contact"? 😋
* I agree with daromer with putting a BMS with it as well. Especially since the parallel strings are getting off balance. However, having them close with base mAh might help with that
Overall, great work!! 😎😎
Thanks Bobby! Maybe I should put the cells inside it next time LOL. Ya the wire does get stiffer ;) Ya I kinda thought everyone did there fuse wire like that.... or did I make that up in my head??? Thats not a bad idea with the bus bar! Ill try and use "Diiiiissss-Cornact" next time :D
You still should have a BMS even if you balance your strings of cells better. A good and preferably programmable BMS will help guarantee that no parallel string goes below 3V or above 4.2. Basically, it will cut the power so that you know a problem exists. I would never leave something like this unattended without a BMS as a secondary line of defense.
Yeah a bms would definitely be optimal to ensure no problems occur. Maybe Ill look around for a cheap one.
Yeas, I agree. Without BMS it can blow up in nice chain reaction because one string of parallel cells go over 4.2 because of different internal resistance.
Yes Sir!!!
If you have soldering skills and don't trust to china cheap BMS you can build one for cheap. Even with wifi and web interface.
Do you have instructions on how to build one?
3 years later, Legend says that AveRage Joe still straightening wires in 2020.
You know it! Did some today🤣🤘💥
LoL
Thanks, Joe for the humor and the insight I'm glad that I found you (I think) this will help me build my battery packs for my electric surfboards. Stay cool!
Thanks man and Im glad you found me as well....I think😉😉😃 let me know if you have questions and I answer the best I can!
I got some great laughs when you were so excited about the wire straightning drill trick and shooting the heat shrink batteries with your holstered heat gun. Lol. Keep up the great videos.
+Tim Frentz Lol Thanks Man!!!
Channeling your inner ave!!
+Robert Poynton Lol yeah. I just got done watching his vid that day. I try to limit myself to just one Ave word "contact" in my vids but that day they just kept on slipping out lol
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed that
when he corntacted I legit wonder if he was his son
Choochum
i made some 24cell 6s batteries for camping and they are fantastic! i made two of them but just one will handle music non stop for about 3 days. volume pegged at just under clipping two 150w speakers. useing cheap china cells $0.60 each and amout 2000mah and contestant with each other. top end balancing is all i need to do
Yeah Ill need to make one for our camping trips as well. So your packs last and handle it all, Sweet!
i use those cheap low voltage beepers used by RC guys. they accept up to 8s backs I believe monitor all the independent voltages then they will alarm at a set voltage. ive seen people remove the beepers and install a capacitor and a relay to even disconnect the pack once the low voltage is reached. the meters are only $1 including shipping if you weight long enough. from the two that I got, they decently accurate and calibrated already.
Thanks for taking the time with your vids man, must take you ages. Always enjoy your vids, very entertaining 😁
This one took a while for sure, especially condensing the load test. Over an hour into a few min. Laptop about died trying to render that one LOL
Acetone cleans wire with paper towel or rag very well and makes for perfect connections when soldering.
Whats funny is I have a gal about 5ft away from me DOH!😀
If she's good lookin you'd be smiling more in your vids.
Oh lol I ment a gallon jug of acetone but the wifey is good lookin too😉😆👍
I'm obviously too late with this but, two words: bottom balancing. Look it up if you're not familiar with the concept. It will save your cells from overdischarging, which is how they die, and spare you from needing a BMS.
Separately, watch that APC UPS. They are notorious for overcharging batteries and cooking them. I've had to hack my way into removing SLA batteries from APC UPS because they bloat up from overcharging. Hopefully they've gotten better with more recent models.
Ill be redoing this pack as I wanted to see what would happen. Ill use all the same cells for the next pack. I personally like top balancing but Yes something like this would need bottom balance since the ups shuts off this low for the cells and wont go high enough for the full charge. 😀👍
Good work. Straighten with drill is nice way ;) I recomend BMS to. If one back discharges just slightly more than others the rest will get higher voltage during charging.
Yeah they turned out great doing the drill method :) Ya in the end Ill probly get one for it but for now in the testing phase Ill see what happens. I leave it unplugged when Im not around jic ;)
DIY Tech & Repairs I've tested such setup without BMS for few years now and if cells are nicely matched (capacity and internal resistance) chances are very slim for things to go wrong.
Thats what Im hoping. Im going to try and match as best as I can but dont have anything to test internal resistance as of yet
I just did a 1500 a few months ago, it's been working great
Sweet, have you done any load test on it. Are you using it as a ups or an inverter?
I haven't done any extensive tests on it but I use it as a ups for my 3d printer, my beer fridge, and a lamp. I had all of that on plus 2 different soldering irons for almost an hour before the low voltage alarm came on.
+Jeff Flanagan Oh ok, not bad at all!!
+Jeff Flanagan Nice!!! Thats sounds like a good load test. How many watts does it all pull?
This a real diy because it is explained well how he built and test is thank you
Thanks Mate!🤘
you know that segregating them by color only make differences between cell models that much more relevant? if you are going to make mix pack at least mix the cells equaly or at random. Because if one cells color/brand discharges at 2C and the other one at 5C , conecting them in paralell only makest bigger 2C or 5C cell, but mixing them would give you an average over all paralell cells. If your cells would have different C ratings, they will discharge ar different rates and will go unbalanced or damaged without balancing
Yuppers 👍 That is the next plan for this battery. I wanted to see what would happen this way and you are correct!!! Next video will be a balanced pack!
You shoulda mixed the colours - putting all the same in each group means you wired all the worst batteries togther at once - as you saw in the test - that one bank let down the entire pack. If you'd mixed them up, that would not have happened.
100% agree!
Here is a reliable --if slightly complex-- work-around for the 12-volt UPS situation... For a 12-volt UPS, you could add diodes in (for example) the Positive lead to tweak the Charging voltage ... small/medium diodes in the Charge direction to drop the voltage for a 3S Li-ion battery, and 1 large diode wired in antiparallel for the Discharge direction ... preferably a fat Schottky diode since you want to minimize voltage loss during discharge. Or you could use a fat Relay to carry the Discharge current with really low loss, or 1 or more Power MOSFET (they share current properly, unlike bipolar junction devices) ... but with Relay, transistor or SCR, you need some control circuitry to "throw the switch" for Discharge. A regular Bipolar Silicon power transistor could be used for the Discharge current, if you are careful about the current rating and heatsinking. High-current silicon SCRs have long been available and might work beautifully, with proper triggering. Or use an IGBT. With the relay version, you will also need a large capacitor to carry the load for an instant while the relay switches. Note that regular (silicon) diodes drop about 0.7 volt under low current, up to about 1.5 volts at high current. SCR voltage drop is about the same. Schottky (metal junction) diodes are available with a variety of different forward voltage drops, usually between 0.45 volt and 0.65 volt, allowing some fine-tuning. Though rare now, there are also Germanium diodes, which drop about 0.4 volts and are mostly for low current.
Similar tricks could be used to reduce the number of Series cells at other voltages as well. For instance, it looks like that 24-volt UPS does not fully charge a 7S Li-ion battery, but would fully charge a 6S battery. Or a low current external charger capable of a bit more voltage could be used in parallel with the UPS charger, to slowly top off the 7S battery charge ... but those chargers may not be regulated as well as the UPS charging circuit. Finally, I have noticed that the cream/khaki-colored APC Smart-UPS 1400 charges to a higher voltage than the black-colored Smart-UPS 1400. That lower voltage is good when the standard Lead-Acid batteries are used, because the cream/khaki-colored Smart-UPS 1400 OVER-charges and destroys Lead-Acid batteries. (I have 10 of the over-charge type.) However, the higher voltage might be perfect for 7S Li-ion. Does the same relation of color and voltage apply to other sizes of Smart-UPS? I have no idea, but it's for certain that different charging voltages are found in the many different models and brands of UPS on the market.
Interesting, Im gonna pretend that I understood all of the first half ;) I dont think Im going to mess with the 12v version anymore. I figured each one would have a different set of voltages. If I get a cream colored ups Ill check the voltages to see what it does. You would think they would of made the the voltages to match the batteries LOL
very inspirational..great vid as always...the force is with you..and I cant wait to see how these red and green cells work on big pack...I do agree..they do seem sucky..
Thanks Man, I like the force :). Yeah I think there just crappy cells. Ill takem out and retest them to be sure and replace them.
i loooove these 18650 ups hacks! Really looking forward to your next one :)
+MIU S Thanks! Taking requests for next video!
Well, here you go :)
- Is it possible to get 2 ups to charge the same battery (Possible for a ups to share battery)
- Witch bms is the "correct" for the job
- Would like to see a test with better balanced pack
- What is the effeciency on your ups (test) :)
- Why only use 1900mah? Is it because all the above is in the powerwall, or is there another reason i cant see
And your 1/2 as good as peter EP5 is not in your playlist... :)
+MIU Yeah you should be able to use the same battery for 2 ups units. Not sure on a bms for it yet. Probly just a cheapo would be fine. I do have plans for a more balanced pack. Not sure on the effeciency lol. Yep all the 2000+ are going into more packs for the powerwall :) Ill have to check on that live stream vid thanks!
My suggestion would be to avoid putting the cells in neat color rows. I;d assume each colour is likely to have the same cemistry and therefore it's own discharge curve. If you randomize the colors then you're more likely to get similar discharge curves for each group. Or even better would be to give repackr.com a try (it seems to produce better balanced packs for me).
Yes Totally agree. Im going to do that when I tear it down. I was think this after I soldered it all together but didnt want to redo it LOL. Annnnnnnd look, now I get to do it anyways LOL
i did same , and it works great
That is a sweet hack for straightening copper rod
You dont have to spin it., just pull it. ;)
Yeah I was excited every time I did it. I get excited easily apparently LOL
LOL
Thanks for this video. Please choose some better less irritation noise next time.
Thanks! Yeah this video is older🤣🤘
Nice job man!
Keep an eye on the cell voltages, especially fully charged - I'm skeptical that they'll stay within limits over time without a BMS as they don't self-correct like lead cells do.
I have an APC1000 still running from 1999 using a couple of newer 9Ah 12V SLAs - but might make a pack for it too when they expire.
Just finished my 2kWh 14S16P ebike battery, (yay!) and tested it on two 100 mile runs.. got 80 miles out of it against headwind before switching to reserve pack.
Ya a bms would be optimal. You should make one for it when those go out :) Damn thats Awesome, 80miles in a headwind holy crap!!!
@@AveRage_Joe What about the recharge circuit on the UPS which is a Lead acid charger, how did the Lithium do?
If you're putting a lot of cells in series and charging them as a whole it makes a lot of sense to use same type of cells in each series and vary them in parallel... as opposed to what you did. As you did it the capacity of the battery will be determined by the lowest common denominator of each serie and the life of the battery will be greatly diminished as lower capacity cells will go into undervoltage after some cycles. You can clearly see that in your test with the meters. Using same cells in a serie would not really solve the problem but it will be less pronounced and you would use the full capacity of each cell in a serie.
Yup, I wanted to see what would happen if someone put them in this arrangement and YES its crap lol. I do plan to rebuild the pack with all the same cells as I just recently got a bunch of the same medical packs!😀👍
Hey great videos. You put together your pack the first time and I believe that way would also give a 7S solution that would be the same net capacity. In the first way the bus bars would have been shorter... the 2nd way would also appear to work..... am I missing something?
Yeah, problem is the UPS doesn't CC/CV the cells, and won't balance them, it also may trickle charge and not cut the voltage at all. That last roll of cells was at 3.6v while an other wen't below 3v, I wouldn't charge this with the UPS as the last roll would exceed 4.2v. Defeating the purpose of the UPS which is to be left plugged in. With well balanced (capacity/internal resistance) it could be used as an inverter though, it would be a big battery backup, charged by a smart charger and used only when needed. But as I said, not an Uninterruptible Power Supply, won't seamlessly keep a PC running on power outage for example.
I'm also searching for a SAFE solution to replace my UPS Lead Acid with savaged 18650s, but so far no luck. It would need a Voltage regulator, charging circuit, balancing circuit and protection circuit with all the bells and whistles, didn't find a cheap, all in one solution yet.
Yeah the safest way would be to use a BMS but Ive had the cells in there for many cycles. All holding strong voltage when I removed pack. Plan on taking the pack apart to test the cells again. The 12v version seemed to hold up well. Took that pack apart and the cells are about the same capacity as when I started 👍 It can keep a pc running during an outage if the pack is big enough. Im using a 48v UPS for my Inverter on my Powerwall. Testing it now actually
just stumbled across this video, liked it so I subscribed.
Awesome Thanks!!!
I've got a couple of those plus a 1500va. The 1500va is looking good for an inverter. It starts up without mains connected with a fully charged 7S lithium pack.
I've been cautious about using the charge circuit in the UPS for lithium packs. I guess the charge cut off voltage will be lower than what a 7S lithium pack will usually get (but you will give up some capacity over a proper 7S charger). ... not that capacity is a problem ... over an hour at 150w is pretty damn decent.
Yeah it seems to work pretty good for a small pack. Hell of a lot better then th LA batteries. Yeah you loose a little capacity but its better than the 12v. You loose a lot in those. I think I heard you might be able to change the charge setting in the software but not 100% sure on that.
It looks like it might be a circuit board mod to adjust the charge float voltage. www.jjoseph.org/notes/apc_smartups_battery_float_voltage (some info near the bottom)
I'd probably leave it as it is though. Lithium chargers don't float charge and they have different charge parameters to SLA. It's probably better to have the charge cut off before the usual lithium charge voltage.
I don't know if there's any ill effects from float charging at 27.5 on a lithium pack (or if a BMS might have a problem with it?) Might be time to experiment :)
+Neil McAliece Ya I was thinking about pulling the lid to see if there were any trim pots to adjust. I know on one of my older 12v ones you can adjust the 120 AC out but dont member if you could with the battery voltage.
LOL I subbed you man! You really made me laugh with that great self mocking at the end of the video!
Thanks for watching 😃👍
yes joe i love dis video...but they say u needs a BMS system or u gonna get fire works .... i like to see more on dis thanks for sharing
Thanks Ray! Yes, you would want a bms on something like this for sure. I do plan on more videos with stuff like this in the future!👍
got u bro thanks
Early joe. I needed this. Thanks!
😆🤘
Yay...I just got one just like it for $15 at my local scraper. Original batteries are dead, but I have plenty of 18650's. Any new development in the project? Reshuffle of batteries? BMS?
There you go Nice!!! I still havent done much with it but still want to!!! I want to add a bms for good measure!
Hello. Congratulations on your excellent contributions to your channel. I live in Brazil and I'm following your work. I plan to make a 24v x 100Ah Pack following this video. but what do you think is better: add more cells and form a single pack or do 2 of 50Ah and connect in parallel? I accept other suggestions.
Thank you for your attention.
I personally would make the bigger packs because its less build material in the end!
Hi Joe what happens if I make a 7s15p battery will that blow anything proved I follow all the necessary guide lines because I haven't seen any pack that big unless not researched properly by me... yes maybe if I make a bug bank like if I have a cell that gets bad tham will be a hassle to remove etc...anyways coming back to the question 7s 15p is that possible
You can put as many as you want in parallel!
Maybe the cells aren't bad - they may just be high-drain cells. I find that cells that I pull from power tools are usually not that high in capacity but made for pulling a lot of amps out of quickly.
I know the green ones were from laptop packs but the red ones could of been. I havent found to many power tool packs but it is definitely possible :)
Yeah and mixing those up could potentially be the root of your problem ;-)
+Tony Lorentzen Could be
You're a cool dude. I could hang out and work with you. Thumbs up and subscribe for being able to laugh at yourself AND getting good things accomplished. Keep on keepin' on.
Lol well Thanks!!! I can definitely be an idiot 😉😜 Thanks for watching and Subbing👍👍👍
at 11:17 why bother cut the extra leads as all they do is add additional capacity to the main bus wire. The cut ends also are now easier to get loose from a solder connection and cause problems. Save the work, and just leave them all connected.
Yeah thats true you could leave them for sure!
I have a 48 volt ups. External battery system. I bought 16 38120 headway’s. I figure they could my gals oxygen concentration machine witch uses 5amps and humidifier. Total drain 10amps.
Yeah should work out just fine!
Can you charge the pack with the UPS without a bms ? The voltage that my UPS puts out to the battery is 27.4v
You would want a bms for sure.
See many using the nicely spun bus bar with fuse wires for powerwall type banks. How well do these work on ebike packs vs nickel strips?
I would think it would work just fine but I dont actually know since I havent made one yet.
Would you kindly test a router on this for internet and PC/Laptop. How long would this average out for in time wise. With a laptop you can get about 2 hours on a average (so so) battery. This just leaves the router. What would it take to power the router for upto 2 hours. THank you.
It really depends on the battery you build. A router doesnt use much energy so it can power it for quit a while. I would add a bms to the battery tho!
@@AveRage_Joe could you consider doing a video on this.?
My APC 1300 24V UPS only charges cell pack up to 26.5V . (3.78V/cell)
I also found that the depletion rate of cells was high when cells fell below 23V (3.2V/cell) Likely would need a BMS .
Good info thanks, What voltage does yours shut off? Yeah thats the normal discharge curve where they pretty much drop off around 3.2v. I still need to rebuild this lil battery pack since I got a bunch of the same cells.😀👍
Don't know. I quickly plugged it back in when it fell to 22V.
You got a new subscriber. I am also going to work on a same project, i have an APC 1000VA back ups pro model. Can You tell me do i need a BMS or not? Won't the battery charger in ups damage the 18650s?
Thanks Mate! Yes you would want a BMS for sure on all li-ion batteries!
@@AveRage_Joe one more question that i have an ready made 48v li ion battery pack, is there a way that can be used with my current ups (which has 24v batteries)?
Maybe a dc converter but best way is turn 48v battery into 24v battery!
@@AveRage_Joe do i need a seperate port or common port bms? Is the battery charger inside ups, OK for charging the li-ion cells or do I need to modify anything else?
Hey Joe, love the channel. Do you have any other videos with this UPS running on the 18650's? Did you have to calibrate the UPS in anyway? I've got the 1500 version of the same ups that i'm trying to get working with the 18650's but using solar and the PCM60X to charge them instead of the AC.
Yeah many of the vids are using a 48v ups with the 18650s and pcm60x to charge. I didnt use the AC to charge them either. Only thing I did was change the internal ups "external battery pack" settings to 99 battery packs. If you cant do that then you have to do a calibration run and that will keep the ups running!
@@AveRage_Joe Hi Joe, after doing the calibration run, how long will the ups keep running? I could't change my pack settings but I did a calibration run successfully. I am using a APC SMT3000RMI2U connected to the solar controller. Thanks for your videos.
Still the runtime knocks out the UPS even when the batteries are full. Any suggestions?
use thik conducter to connect each cell and you can see the back up time is increeees
Yup this was just a test run. I still plan on remaking the battery pack with different cells😀👍
Its not safe to use strips of choreds like that becaus of heat not safe. Good video keep up the good wark.
Tank You!!!
Sheesh.... profanity police comin' out the woodwork. Oh well. I've enjoyed your videos man. Informative and funny. Keep it up Rager
Lol, im using that bleep button on most now 😉
Put a BMS on that battery pack.
New sub I liked your video thanks for sharing :)
+Benja's Uber 1337 Hobby Awesome, Welcome and Thanks!!!
:)
yeahhh you still need a BMS tat will balanced at the same current they are being charged at. but at least the cut off is correct.
Yeah a bms would help a lot. Once I get some time Ill get one of those cheapy ones to put on it to see how it works.
ive had problems finding cheap ones for a 6s set up or if i do, they are reviewed poorly. you can get cheap 3s and 4s ones all day no problem but not quite battery set up I wanted.
First off, thanks for this awesome vid. Those red and green cells are more than likely Sanyo/Sony and aren't too reliable from my experience. LG and Samsung tend to make some of the best 18650s which hold decent capacity after a huge number of cycles. As for the BMS, ebay is full of cheap BMS boards. For example:
www.ebay.com/itm/7s-Cells-24V-20A-Li-ion-Lithium-18650-Battery-BMS-Protection-Board-Balance-ark/253025332956?hash=item3ae97c2edc:g:6y0AAOSw~e5ZWhFV
Honestly, any BMS protection board will be tons better than running it raw (pun intended)
Thanks Man! Yeah those are the notorious Sanyo and Sony cells. Most of the time they are junk, but speaking of those sanyos, I have a hole bunch of the from some medical packs now that are in newish condition so I might try with all those cells. For sure a bms would be a TON better 😆👍
Are you sure it's ok to to charge the cells can be changed using the lead acid charger? The voyage is fine but liion are cc/cv
It is not recommended especially without a bms. This was more of a lets see if it works. I plan on redoing this setup and adding a bms. Just ordered a bms and other parts. Now waiting for them to arrive. Video to follow.
My 3s12p 24ah I only had 14 guage wire so I twisted 2 together. Online, it says 10 gauge or bigger is needed
How is yours working?
AveRage Joe perfect, but now its a 16p 32ah battery :) got an upgrade
+James Andonian Nice!
isnt this dangerous because the batteries rated at different amperage?
Only part that is dangerous is not using a bms.
Hey how aboute try to reverse the half of the spinning when you straight out these tubes
+urbantone Ill try it on the next one and see what happens
Would larger buss wires between your cell strings help with voltage in each string of cells? I seen wide differences as the draw down and charge.. Also how long did it take to recharge the pack? I have found that larger buss work better.
+bigsmile542 Ill add bigger bus bars to the list of changes 😀. Twisted pair here we come!!!
+bigsmile542 and maybe different fuses. Maybe Ill do the glass fuses.
Possibly a better idea to set batteries by weight as opposed to the colour of the cells..
Was a poor last choice on my part lol. I should of just sep into equal capacity rows!
I am learning quick matey, thanks for all your videos .. i have been into batteries since i was a kid nearly 50yrs ago , so not such a beginner. i make circuits, which are nothing without power. Your vids are essential for all of us. Thanks again
Thanks man! Appreciate it! If you can make circuits, you can for sure build batteries!😃🤘
All good, credit to Your videos.. Thanks again. The collection and buying has now begun.. 39 from last night till now.. not many, but enough for 2 or 3 packs. I knew they might come in handy.
How can it be random when you went for colour ekk
I just thought this was a cool build and test video.
I thought so too!
Do you expect to have problems because the recharge circuit is not designed for Lithium cells?
Honestly its hard to say but every time Ive done the load test so far(maybe 5-6 times) they all return to roughly the same voltage and there not over 4v so thats good. The red and green ones need to be swapped out and I think it will be even better. I think it will be fine but Ill keep load testing to find out :)
first time i've watched u ... !! .. to be honest ; gave u a subscrb an a like right away , u are one of the sun of an electronic bitches that u like directly .... quick expln...smooth....the speed up... awesome man keep up thats what i like..hh
Lol Awesome Thanks!!! I try to tell/show the whole story of the process by leaving most of the stuff in and only removing what is needed if that makes sense lol. Aaaand a little bit of humor in there if I can😉
👍
Hey joe how do u calculate amps...pls teach me if each cell is 1900 mah than x 63 cells that's 119,700 mah divide that by a 1000 isnt that 119.7 amps?
Do you mean amp hours? If so 119.7 is it. If you want kwh or wh then its 119.7amps X the voltage of the system like 12v, 24v or 48v.
@@AveRage_Joe hey joe thanks for replying so if u say amps x volts that pack is 24volts isnt it?....119.700mah x 24volts?= 2872.8 so than this figure is what? Thanks once more joe I wish I could show u my build the exact same one like you doing....thanks a million
Again joe your postive isnt touching the other battries what I mean is the red side at last where you soldering the red battries to the bus bars so than how is that connected to the others on the positive side?
You have a + on one end of pack and - on the other end of pack. All connections inbetween are +-+-+-
That would be 2.872kwh
Any further testing or result? Will this also work on a 12v ups? What about just adding a bms between ups leads and batteries?
I have plans to do more on the 24v version just havent had the time to do it yet.
Nice work man. Granted, it's about half as nice as what Pete would do, but that's the goal, right? j/k :P
+levik1832 Thanks! Half as good :D You know it lol
BTW, when did you hit 5k subs? Pretty effin' cool man!
+levik1832 Thanks! Its Awesome!!! Last night watching Petes Live Stream at 2am while he hits 20K lol
Hi! I know this is a late comment, if you could help it would be much appreciated... I did this but the problem is that my ups seems to have a cutoff voltage at 24.4 volts, Is that just a safety feature I can bypass? Or is that actually the required voltage of the UPS? What would cause that on the circuit board?
You may need to do a calibration test. That should fix the issue!
what is the reason that 24 volt does not need bms- and 12 volt does ?
The voltage range of the cut-off and recharge. Since 3s would over charge them and 4s drains them down to far.
good videos
Thank You!
63 batteries X 10usd each= 630usd +BMS cost
18 PB 12v 7ah X15usd each= 270usd.
the only change is in the size but i believe PB batteries have better lifetime..
I didnt pay much for these cells, I still need to redo the pack since I have 100s of the same cell now and add a cheapo bms👍
wrong 1.55usd (really good)cells, 4x minimum life cycle www.ebay.com/itm/100-SONY-18650-2400MAH-G7-CELLS-LITHIUM-ION-BATTERIES-POWERWALL-EBIKE-EV-VAPE/202164298787?hash=item2f11ee6423:g:6p8AAOSwHNxaMCsY
I say give it a go without bms and keep an eye on it. Not convinced about the whole bms thang
I am going to see what happens without one after I change those cells out. Its probly a bad connection lol but Ill retest them to see
You could benefit from memeory boosting nootropics
I think Ive heard of that😃
hmm wonder how big the pack would need to be for my eaton mx4000 they're 15x lead acids in series. ~198v
I'm assuming a LOT heh.
Yeah 198vdc pack would be huge lol. In my other videos Im using a SUA3000RMXL3U for an inverter. Its working out pretty good so far!😀👍
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How do the 18650s stay balanced without a BMS?
I kinda changed plans during the build of this but yes, you would need a bms for sure. This was more of a test/concept.
why you don't use any protection circuit in battery pack ???
I wanted to see if it would work without it👍
+AveRage Joe its work correctly ?
and ups automatic recharge battery again safely ?
Yeah seems to just fine. I took the 12v version I did a while back apart and retested the cells and all tested fairly close to the first capacity test I did on them. Of course I would recommend a small cheap bms for it to be safer tho. I do want to redo the battery with all the same cells as I have a bunch that are the same now.
lol I had one of those and got rid of it and manage to score a 750 one because it uses the cheaper 12V 7A batteries ($25) rather than the $200+ ones.
What I'd like to know is how you'd nicely put that into the unit, live wire and fuses everywhere. was initially thinking sticky side rubber map on both sides but then though could cause problems with the fuses. any thoughts?
Nice, are you going to put 18650's in it? I was thinking maybe just using foam of some sort.
Not yet, batteries are ok for now and I've been trying to find recycling places in Sydney with no luck. Found people tried laptop repairs so going to start with those this week.
it'll all for nothing as I'm moving to US for a couple of years soon before deciding to stay or come back. Probably come back to find UPS lasts 2 min before powering off lol.
Ideally, I'll change it to 18650's eventually. When i get to US I'll buy 100 batt' from china to test quality and if good then get bulk and redistribute if people want any.
+Phizicks Awesome, what part of the US are you headed to?
The rainy Seattle. :( going to miss the Aussie sunshine weather. I was hoping I get there soon enough and then head to Oregon to watch the solar eclipse in August :D we'll see.
EEwwww Seatle, jk Ive never been so I dont know lol. Yeah the solar eclipse should be awesome :D
谢谢你教了我很多新野。
你是非常歡迎的
Hi it's been a while, so I got a pcs xs 1300 780 watt can more battery be had on for more capacity milihamp but to keep it at 24v let me know what you think tank you.
+Cesar Pardo yeah you should be able to add as much as you want.
Hi, I just recently found your channel. I'm trying to research and get some ideas on how to build a battery system for my RV. Right now I'm using fore 6 V Trojan golf cart batteries, but would love to build some 18650 replacements. Do you have any ideas or resources on this topic? Thanks
Thanks for Watching!! I think that would be an easy replacement. How are you charging the trojans now?
My current set up is:
1. 3 ea. Renogy 150 Watts 12 Volts Monocrystalline Solar Panel
www.amazon.com/dp/B00KI14U5C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_9MjYzbW49C517
2. TriMetric Model 2030A-F
3. BOGART SC-2030 PWM CHARGE CONTROLLER
www.bogartengineering.com/products/solar-charger/
4. TEMPERATURE SENSOR FOR SC-2030
5. 500A, 50MV DC SHUNT
6: Xantrex PROWatt 2000 Inverter, Model# 806-1220
www.amazon.com/dp/B002LGEMOQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_H2jYzb2347DW2
I've been told that for 6 V Trojan T105 batteries give me about 450 amp hours. I believe only up to 50% of that is actually usable. At least that's my understanding. It would be nice to increase my amp hours and get less "voltage sag".
FYI I binge watched all your episodes on the current power wall. Looking forward to your next video. Thanks 🙏🏻
I had those same batteries and inverter lol. The power rack is there replacement! It would be a pretty easy change over. You would need a different charge controller. One that you can change the internal settings to get rid of equalization and change float and bulk settings. I am using the pcm60x charge controller and it can do 12,24 and 48v aff link is in a lot of my vids, i got it from MPP Solars EBay store.
AveRage Joe The Trimetric allows me to go into the charge controller and change all the settings. I can call the factory but I believe I might be able to set it up. If not I would just change the charge controller. Then maybe it would be best to wire my panels in series and up the voltage.
First I just want to figure out how large a battery I need to build with the 18650's and what BMS I would use. What do you think the best configuration would be for building a battery with between 500 to 1000 amp hours? At least that's what I think I may need to replace my Trojan batteries.
Really appreciate your help and any resources you could send me.
Oh ok, wasnt sure if you could log into it. Then it might be ok. Im new to MPPT but they say MPPT works best for higher voltage. As long as the pwm controller can handle the higher voltage Id say do it. For a 12v pack, depending on 3s or 4s, to get 450amp at 3s you would need around 300 cells at 2500ma (3packs of 100cells) or 4s (4packs of 100) or you could start with smaller packs and keep adding as you get them to build up the amps. Does that make sense?
Hi, can you put the link to the fuse wire you've used?
I pulled this wire from another project but it was 32 gauge like this link here amzn.to/2x6uNUU
How did you get rid of the enamel on the wire? Is there a good method?
7s9p = 63 cells. 1 cell is about 6Wh. Total battery is maybe 400Wh. Load was 150W and time was 1,2h. So you got less than 200Wh out - that's only 50%. Inverters sucks. Maybe you'll get better results when you balance your battery.
I think that part of the problem is that the charge circuit in the UPS for 24v SLA is just cutting off well under the 29.4V a 7S pack would normally be charged to. 24v SLA fully charged is something like 27.5v There's probably a 10% loss (or something like that) through the inverter and the rest is probably just because the pack never gets charged to capacity.
Neil McAliece yes. Multiple reasons why this idea is not ideal. But it's easy.
Yeah agree. Also those red and green cells might be crappy. Ill swap those out for some different ones and do the test again
AveRage Joe yes! Can't hold my pants. Love your videos, editing etc. Made few 4s batteries which works OK with current SolarChargers and load but 7s is the answer for many (just 1 for me) problems.
Thanks Man!!! Yeah the 7s is the way to go. One problem down, Many to go>
do you still using it...??
do you recharge it through the UPS or use another charger..??
plz i need to know..
No I dont use it at the moment. I would like to redo the battery. I was test charging it with ups and also external charger. The battery needs a bms!
@@AveRage_Joe ok...but if i make the same pack...with a bms...can i charge it through ups..is it ok..??
First Im going to say there are no rules! You can do as you please. I would charge it through the ups as long as the voltage matchs. It is a super slow charge so it will take forever depending on how big the pack is.
what about a load test of say, 500 watts?
It can be done but not for very long with the little amount laptop cells I used since they are low drain cells. I am thinking of remaking the pack with some high drain medical cells I got recently and then it can do the higher wattages.
If you test each cell for capacity you can use this pack design tool to help make sure that the parallel banks as close to as equal Capacity as possible when yours using cells that are not equal. www.diypowerwalls.com/repacker.php In case you have not seen it yet.
Yup Im a member over there and post when I can (which isnt as much as Id like). I just wanted to see what would happen if someone just through a pack together.
Did you use REPACKER building that ?
No lol this was just a "test" pack more or less. I should of mixed all the cells around but didnt!
Now add an mppt solar charge controller
I have a PCM60X mppt on the 48v UPS Im using for the powerwall!👍
I couldn't get past 2:26 of the video. You should change your name to jumpcut Joe. Wow...
Lol I hear ya, I kinda like that name!😀👍
Ok, I was too critical back then. I watched the rest of it. Good choice in music.
At: 12:40 Queso in English means cheese.
😲😆
whats about BMS module?)
Its always best to bms unless the groups are close to as perfect in capacity. Pretty much the opposite of this pack as I wanted to see what would happen if you just slapped some cells in there 👍🔋
You should always have a BMS if don’t like fire.
Why does everyone use 7 rows?? It seems like 3 18650's equals 12-volts and 6 18650's would be 24-volts.. so why the 7th row?... The math is eluding me
You are correct in the assumption but the voltage on a 3s is 12.6v max and 6s would be 25.2v max. Its the float voltage on lead acid batteries that can be 13.5v. So adding the 7th cell to cover that extra voltage will prevent any overcharging on the 18650s!🔋👍
AveRage Joe so if you wire for in succession it's too hot for 12-volt systems but 7 is kind of a sweet spot for 24-volt systems? Basically cuz you're getting yourself halfway to 8 which would be double of the 4 and be too hot again?
Yep since most of these ups's or inverter's are built for lead acid batteries!
AveRage Joe awesome, thank you for the clarification! :-) have a Happy Thanksgiving!
@@graymatters6155 You bet and Happy Thanksgiving to you!!!
I must say that was a nice Load there. Oh wait my wife just told me that :)
+joseph chrzempiec LOL Nice!!
Not balance
You're only getting like 700 mah from each cell with that run time.
Wait a min, your dating collie schmoo cockford aren’t yah... I’m subbin
🤣🤫
Dude don't you wish you could use "...and cover it up with heat shrink" on everything in life?
😆 Heat shrink makes everything better!!! They do have it in this size meow!!!
Enjoyed the video, the language can go, though.
Thanks! AAAAnd Future videos are cleaned up a bit 😃
No BMS and the overuse of the word "hack" for every piece of engineering.. Fail.
Terrible mix between too different li-ion cells...
Agreed!!!
music kills the video
Thanks for the feedback!
This video inspired me to build my power wall ty! Please check out my videos. You might find some interesting ideas for your own vids
Thank you! Checking out meow!!!!😉👍
i love your videos but you watch AVE too much =)
😆NEVERRRR!!! Thanks man!