Stratford International: We're international! Us: We understand you're by the Olympic Park, but you don't have any Eurostars stopping at your station- Stratford International: *DID I STUTTER?* There's a joke about Stratford International, the only country you can get to from there is Cyprus...which is just another DLR station
Back in the day, when the Eurostar still went from Waterloo, I was at St Pancras. I noticed there was a Eurostar parked on the end track. So being nosey I went to see why. Some workers were marking the outline of the train with road spikes and tape. I asked what they were doing. They explained that they had to build new platforms for when the Eurostar moved to there; so this was to work out where to put them. I liked the practicality, but wondered why that wasn't just something they just put in the plans. The guys then explained the full history of every time trains had been ordered for other lines, but then didn't fit. So they wanted to draw round an actual train.
@@imsbvs Same thing at Paris Nord, the new e320 fit the platforms, barely! But the signals couldn't be seen from the cab. So a guard/conductor had to "read" the signal from the platform and wave/radio it back to the driver inside the cab as the train departed. I think it's been properly fixed now.
When Salisbury Depot got it’s first class 170s they temporarily fitted wooden footsteps under the door openings and ran the unit slowly over night through every intended local station to check the platforms were suitable.
My grandfather was a shunter in Stratford Yard during WWII. unfortunately one night his engine was hit by a German Bomb . So I never got to meet him. RIP Grandad
@@jean_mollycutpurse_winchester do you really think you knew my grandfather. I had the pleasure of meeting his fireman albeit at my Mother's funeral some 13 now nearly 14 years ago.
@@michaelcampin1464 No, I was just a child and used to hear the steam engines at night.I lived very close to Leyton Station. Hearing those sounds was comforting and I loved the trains.
As someone who's never been to the UK, I thought for quite a while that Stratford International was a station serving a nearby airport and that that was why it was called International. "Stratford Airport" sounded familiar to me after all. Then years later I realized I was thinking of Stansted and that Stratford International is not actually international. Ever since then I have not been the same.
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
@@isaactimmins8959 For most of the 1990s there was a massive advert at Birmingham International saying that in a few years' time you would be able to get on a train at the station and travel all the way through to France and beyond without getting off the train. I believed it would happen.
The one thing you don't mention is that this route has really made the seaside towns on the Kent coast readily accessible, and that 7 minutes to St Pancras in the other direction can be useful when there are no fast alternatives available (on a tube strike day for example)
it's a very useful connection if you have to get between east anglia and anywhere in kent, or even south east london, given most trains from that direction stop at stratford main. I quite liked not changing in central london for once!
I recently rode the Southeastern Highspeed. Generally very impressed. Very surprised by the lack of first class and a refreshment trolley though. Even with HS1, the Kent coast towns are the same distance in terms of time from London as Birmingham is.
Yeah a couple months back i woke up on a Monday morning in Hythe, only 15 minutes earlier than I normally would have and arrived at school in Redbridge at normal time.
Actually, i think that Eurostar and High speed rail will yet have their day...I have used Eurostar for 3.5 round trips, (dont ask about the .5!) and its by far the nicest stress free way to get from London to Paris..maybe a rival operator will give Stratford its International Rescue... (cue Thunderbird One!)
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
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A lot of effort was put into making Eurostar just as inconvenient as air travel. There were lots of ideas for Eurostar services further into continental Europe as well as ICE services to Great Britain. All of these went nowhere fast because of the requirements for passport checks and blocking off entire platforms making these proposed trains incompatible with just about any kind domestic service, immediately limiting the potential number of passengers.
In part caused by the UK not being part of the Schengen area. Except for covid measures per country, you are in the zone when you are in and out when you are out. Crossing that boundary is complicated while travelling inside of it is very simple and requires no checks at all.
@@grahvis They say to check in 90-120 minutes before. It doesn't actually take that long, at least normally, but I think it *can* do which means a lot of waiting
What I find really interesting is that to enable the Eurostar regional trains they actually made a Eurostar sleeper train set with the idea that it could run from Edinburgh, stop at Stratford, and then go on to Paris or Brussels or Amsterdam or maybe even further as part of the Eurostar Ski-train ensemble running down to the French Alps. Honestly the idea was one some 20+ years ahead of its time as it's only now with the return of sleeper trains across Europe that something like the proposed Eurostar Sleeper would work fantastically (obviously though there's the "if Brexit hadn't happened and thrown a wrench into everything") and would allow for people from the North to get on a train, go to sleep and wake up as they are coming in to their destination. Honestly it would have been a great idea and would have made use of Stratford but it got scrapped before it could even get started really.
Brexit doesn't affect Eurostar, the agreement to check passports for example has nothing to do with the EU. But I do love how people have to shoehorn it into everything
@@henrybest4057 Eurostar had customs checks and security checkpoints more reminiscent of an airport than a train station way before Brexit became a thing. Brexit may have made things even worse (I wouldn't know; I haven't gone on a Eurostar since 2019, what with the plague and all), but the whole "worst of both worlds" thing with Eurostar where it feels like all the bad parts of trains *and* airplanes was definitely there even when I first went to London in 2015.
@@MrGreatplum Indeed. The service was branded as Nighstar (all details on wiki) and Canada bought most of the rolling stock. See here: ua-cam.com/video/sQdGvtZeBXY/v-deo.html
Yes but it made for a very convenient changing station when I would go from my university flat in Gillingham, Kent home to Wickford, Essex. Just two trains and a short walk through a shopping centre. As someone who considers Essex and Kent different countries, Stratford International achieves its title in my twisted interpretation.
Back in my nursing days I used to commute from Grove Park in south London to Brentwood in Essex with a lively walk between London Bridge and Liverpool St, it was lucky too that the capitalcard back then covered me to Harold Wood and I would get the hospital bus from the hospital to my hospital saving me a fair bit and my fare was back then £23 a week wholly affordable.
The international departures concourse @ Stratford international is interesting as it's a huge unused space... it's a bit sad really that it never saw a service. The station has a twin building in Ebbsfleet... and there you can see what the Eurostar build-out would have looked like... though since 2020 this has also been abandoned
The UK is rather bad at this sort of thing, strange given the lessons we should have learnt from our Victorian forefathers. Still, give our great leaders promise to lay before the Heathrow bulldozers, it's 1 step forward and 5 steps back. Short-termism rules ok!
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
@@fritzhenning1 I suspect with Heathrow's third runway that it will clear all the necessary legal hurdles, the government will claim they're completely committed to it, but then find an excuse to kick it into the proverbial long grass, so continuing to leave the residents of the two affected villages in limbo.
Stratford was given an enormous circulating area as it was intended to handle visitor traffic to the adjacent 2012 Olympics..... .......traffic which never materialised!
I actually preferred rolling into Waterloo on the eurostar, the sight of the London Eye, houses of Parliament, Battersea power station all felt more London... Even going through the old stations in South London... Maybe its just me, but it felt more like coming home... Great episode sir, I am actually driving to London tomorrow from Vienna, will be there for 2 weeks... Will catch up on the other episodes whilst there for sure... 😊👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 Good old Sid
Yes, same thought when arriving into Victoria Station. But, you do get to see the Dartford bridge and the M2 & M20 motorways as you wiz past at 140 mph on the domestic service - or 180 mph if on the Eurostar trains
I thought they chose Waterloo as the London terminus for the train from France to remind any French travellers of the battle the staion is named after, thus continuing the 1,000 year old British tradition of putting the French in their place.
About the same time, a Eurostar departure lounge was built on platform 10 at Glasgow Central. It lay largely un-used for several years, until it was demolished when the two extra platforms were built for the Glasgow Airport rail-link. Another white elephant that never happened. So not only am I unable to take the once-promised sleeper from Glasgow to Paris, but I can't even take a once-promised train to Glasgow Airport! Incidentally, the two extra platforms were gifted to ScotRail, enabling an increased frequency to operate to/from Ayr (via Prestwick Airport LOL).
It's funny that Scotland doesn't yet seem to have good rail links to any of its airports - even Edinburgh Gateway is a good mile and a half away from the terminal, and just acts as an interchange with the trams. In fact, ironically Prestwick is probably the airport with the nearest railway station, despite it being one of the less used in the country.
@@theenigmaticst7572 I used to use Prestwick in those years when it was busy, and there was a deal with ScotRail where you got a half-price ticket to/from any station in Scotland, provided you showed a boarding card or flight confirmation. It's a lovely airport to use, but the perception is that it's in the wrong place. Regarding Edinburgh Airport, there's now a regular bus direct from Glasgow which I have used - and as I'm old enough to qualify for a free bus pass, it doesn't cost me anything. The drivers are all Glaswegians too, a nice welcome back after a trip abroad! Aberdeen Airport has Dyce station right next to it, as well as an off-licence to service the returning off-shore workers who pile onto some trains.
@@Clivestravelandtrains I didn't even remember Aberdeen airport in my post - I'll slap my wrists for that one!!! I think that Inverness is getting a new station for the airport, if I remember rightly - and I think I know the service from Glasgow to Edinburgh Airport - I'm based in the East of the country so my experience is more Edinburgh than Glasgow, I have used Glasgow once or twice, but Prestwick, never!
The Brits: Building a tunnel with the French across the English Channel as a sign of friendship Also the Brits: *Own the French by having the London terminus be at Waterloo* Ah yes...the duality of man
@@ottermanuk "If you think of the UK and France as two brothers". No way, most British people don't think of France like a brother! England and Scotland are the bickering brothers, but France is..... not.
Unfortunately also because of Covid, Eurostar trains aren't stopping at Ebbsfleet or Ashford at the moment. So if you want to go international from Stratford, you have to go backwards to St Pancras then back out again passing Stratford once more!
Indeed, Eurostar says it will not be calling at its Kent stations until 2023 at the earliest. Same with its seasonal service to the South of France ... suspended.
Can't see ES returning to those places. What they need to do is refurb the drab interiors of the Javelins with very comfy seats to justify retaining the supplement fare & then have at least a skeleton ES service at Ashford at least, so people can connect there.
Sorry to contradict Jago, but Eurostar got 70% of the London-Paris market share and a pretty good proportion of London-Brussels, so that in both cases the airlines cut back markedly on those routes. Not bad for a supposed failure! I find the airport-style security checks at St Pancras far quicker, smoother and more relaxed than at any London airport.
If you view the video Jago explained why evaluated regional services with longer journey times and additional expense were overtaken by the revolution in low cost air travel.
As a child I really, really loved trains, and so when possible my dad would drive me past Stratford station where they had a bunch of old steam engines on plinths. Sometimes we'd park up and I'd just sit there marvelling at them. And then one day when we drove past it was fenced off and there were construction works everywhere, my dad explained that they were taking the trains away. I was very, very upset. Living near the Central line and TFL rail, I often find myself in Stratford, and recently I noticed that outside the station, behind all the buses, stalls and people, they still have one of those old trains sitting out there :D Edit: And Google has revealed to me that there was only ever one train out there, his name is Robert, and you've done a video on him!
I went on the Eurostar when it was from Waterloo - it really did trundle through the UK until it hit France then it went so fast it took your head off. Al Murray made a great joke about the Eurostar wanting to get out of France and away from the French as quickly as possible, and when it got to England it slowed right down so it could take in the beautiful British scenery. He wasn't wrong!!
I think it's more accurate to say that the train is slow and depressed in the UK because it's around too many British "people", and it finally speeds up again once it gets inspired by France.
What really killed international rail was that the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet became so cheap that people couldn't justify paying extra for nice comfortable seats, generous baggage limits and an end point that was much closer (and more well connected to everywhere).
I'm a big supporter of air travel where its efficient, but that's normally just mid-long haul flights. Rail really should be the primary means of travel and on some routes it could be even quicker than flying if we got it right
@@benrampling812 For most of the UK, most of Europe is a mid length journey. I think I remember from a different video (and this is just of the top of my head, I could be mistaken) that the optimum distance for high speed rail is about 500-700km, much more than that and air travel becomes faster and cheaper. Well from the centre of the UK going via the Channel Tunnel that puts Paris, Brussels and maybe Amsterdam in range but going beyond northern France and the Low Countries tips the balance towards air travel. It seems to me that high speed rail is great for within the UK but air travel is better for going to Continental Europe with the pretty much sole exception of the London-Paris route.
@@bluemountain4181 I've been hearing numbers along those lines several times in recent years, but I disagree, outside of C19, I regularly used train rides of 10-12 hours to get to and from my vacation, and I wouldn't even think of exchanging the train for a plane. It's not worth it IMO. Especially as that still leaves a train ride on at least one, more likely both ends of the flight. It's got even worse since 9/11 with the security theatre. Even before Schengen, the border nonsense was almost trivial on the train, and since Schengen, it is completely nonexistent. Planes are for if you absolutely cannot go by train.
getting there, hopefully. minimum ticket prices, tax increases and levies, growth constraints and the fossil nature of aircraft propulsion (for now and a number of years to come) will definitely start to push some people back to rail. "flight shame" isn't quite catching on but climate awareness is pushing policy in a good direction. the other big market now seems to be flixbuses and the like. granted, they're cheap, but I imagine too basic for a LOT of people. as much as private rail operators are (for a variety of reasons) a generally bad idea in my opinion, there's still a frustrating lack of competition in the high speed rail market and the private sector hasn't quite caught on to true HSR yet. mostly seems to be national operators and various spin-offs thereof. the channel tunnel link is sorely lacking options....eurostar is consistently too expensive, doesn't offer enough connections and the rolling stock isn't great.
My Mother was instrumental in getting the channel tunnel rail link moved from its original planned route. It was going to go through our house in Bexley!
Given the petty squabbling over lines and services at home, it's nothing short of amazing that us Great Britons managed to build any railways at all in far-flung parts of the Empire!
@@nonsuch9301 40,000 miles of track in India shows you aren't wrong. Mind you, they are electrifying more of that track per year than we ever would. Even taking into account the difference in size of our countries.
This station is really useful for getting from Stratford where I live to King's Cross, which is a really nice place to hang out. Shame the fares on the highspeed to St Pancras are a little exorbitant :/ I also remember coming back from Newcastle during the tube strikes and this being one of the few still open rail services to get me home. God bless the Stratford to St. Pancras line.
Well before the full HS1 was finished, the redundant link from the first half still connects with the Kent Coast Main Line, I could walk along Herne Hill platform 2 faster than the Eurostar Three Capitols Express stock some days. One of the plans was to divert there via Loughborough Junction to a tunnel (before Elephant & Castle) to connect to St Pancras. This seemed ludicrous as the turn to that line at Herne Hill crossed the main line with a speed limit of 20 mph!!!
In the New York area,there are three stations that would be in that 7 to 10 minute connections route! They are,respectively; 125th Street[Metro North,and sometimes Amtrak],Woodside[Long Island Railroad,and NYCTA,number 7 subway line],and last,but not least,Newark,New Jersey[Amtrak,New Jersey Transit,(buses,and Newark Subway)],and these are fairly busy stations,even if there is no International traffic to be had! As to airport traffic,Newark Airport,has a connection on the Corridor,and JFK,has the AirTrain out of Jamaica Station,with through connections,to Penn Station,and points elsewhere! Stratford has that type of potential,but the politicians and bankers,don't have the guts to see things through to a reachable goal!! Que Sera,and then the Karma!! Thanks,Jago for an interesting tale,of forlorn hopes,and dashed dreams,wouldst that some people would give a chance,that others could make things grow!! One can dream,and pray,so time will tell!! Thanks again for your attention ☺️!
125th street briefly had international trains passing by (en route from Toronto and Montréal) while Penn Station was under construction, but as with Stratford, those trains did not stop. Passengers headed to Harlem could (and still can) easily just transfer to a regional trains at Yonkers, so it wasn't worth stopping.
Simply love this channel with no disruptive background music louder than the speech or even ads in between. This nonexisting elements are crucial to help the audience better understanding what is the video 's tale about. Would spend hours watching every video explaination. Congratulations for the extraordinary work contributing to Britain's history knowledge for future generations.
I worked for SNCF's regional office in Manchester (we also represented other European rail services) It really was 3 things that killed off the regional Eurostar idea. 1/ the absence of being in Schengen scheme and need for security screening/check in at regional stations not really designed for these. 2/ the existing capacity on the lines. Spare capacity wasn't around and remember this was before the big line upgrades on the Euston InterCity. 3/ the real death nail was the creation of direct sell airlines [I refuse to say low cost because they aren't really as low cost as they make out] suddenly it became easier to phone or click and book a seat on a flight from a regional airport and be sat in bar somewhere within 3-4 hours (or less) from leaving home. The regional class 373 TGV-TMST's did find service running from London to York and on services from Brussels/Lille to The French Alpes and Mediterranean coast.
The really annoying thing with Strafford International is the refusal to integrate the Station into the London travel network... You cannot use a travel card to travel between St Pancras and Stratford International on the Javelin trains.
You can definitely use oyster or contactless between St Pancras and Stratford International on the Javelins, so I’m not sure quite what you mean by the station not being integrating into the London travel network.
@@SDCentralTSV St Pancras high-speed platforms are outside the normal Travelcard zones, so you still have to pay a premium fare to go to Stratford Int, even if you have a Travelcard season.
Oh right I see what you guys mean. Actually, thinking about it I also remember someone saying that the daily cap is ignored on this stretch - I think it was Geoff Marshall.
I went to the Olympic Stadium in 2017 from my home town in Herts with my mother. We made the mistake of buying a ticket to Stratford rather than zone 1. I think it both cost more and took longer as there are fewer trains than on the tube. It's not worth it for 7 minutes in a more comfy seat!
Certainly is quite the white elephant, would have not been too bad had they pushed through with the HS2-HS1 link to connect Old Oak Common with Stratford International and bypassing both Euston & St Pancras International. Other ideas include a NLL stop at High Meads Loop next to the DLR stop before running to Chingford via a reinstated Hall Farm Curve, with the elevated DLR stop at Stratford being rebuilt so its not only alongside the Central line and other platforms but also links up with Stratford International DLR to create a loop (saving a 15-20+ min or so walk) with scope for an additional DLR stop at Montfichet Road by International Way for the local community.
I have called Stratford International station, Stratford Highspeed station, due to the fact Eurostar do not stop there. Also I have find some good deals on Eurostar trains in the past, when I have travelled on the Eurostar. It just depends on the time of year you travel, and how many people want to use it.
You're not wrong in that, from time to time, a good little bargain can be found on the service. The sad fact of the matter is though that it is by-and-large quicker and infinitely cheaper to fly >90% of the time. Being a fan of 'Choo-Choos' just as I am of 'weeeeeeeoooooooooooows' I've looked at both for a given date happy to do the extra travelling upto London from Brighton ( passing Gatwick along the way) if the prices and journey time can come close. I go so far as to ignore the additional time & money costs in getting to St Pancras but I could count on 1 hand how many times the cost has come even close. And when I talk about flying i'm not comparing the Orange Skybusses of Sleazyjet ( NOT that there's anything wrong with them imho) or Ryanair ( Ghastly, will never set foot on one of their planes). I'm talking flying Club Europe ( BA's short haul/ European Business Class) to Paris, Bruges or Amsterdam and the words "British Airways" & "Cheap" should never the two meet! Add into that I can sit in a lounge quaffing bubbles or whiskey till my hearts content if the mood takes me/ time allows and get a proper-ish meal served onboard ( followed by more champagne and invariably a gin or 4) for less money than a Standard Class rtn on Eurostar then it's a competition that is over before it's begun. I have used the Eurostar a half dozen times over the years but more out of forcing myself to do it to experience it myself / share the experience with eg visiting friends but even their business product is, imo, woefully underwhelming for what you're paying - and it's not like I have some mad belief that BA's SH business product is the epitome of luxury and the final word in service standards. I think the tree hugging lobby would have a lot more success in getting us out of planes and onto trains if they could make the things more reliable, better interconnected and most importantly decidely cheaper! That's trains across Europe btw not just in Blighty. With the exception of the Swiss and certain parts of the Nordic countries networks most services ( Nationalised or Private) are shadows of what they were a few decades ago. People will use the service that gets them there with the least amount of hassle and most importantly is, not necessarily always cheapest but, the most value for money to them personally. Until then then only archaic and dictatorial legislation where Governments remove the individuals right to choose will affect numbers and more likely will have the reverse consequence of more people taking long distance/ international journeys in their private vehicles rather than take rail as they've been banned from flying under X distance. Jesus. That ^^^ went on longer and got deeper than intended but hey i've typed it all so I may well hit send eh 🤣
@@C2K777 As a member of railway staff I get discounted fares on Eurostar. It's not all that unusual to find that flights are cheaper than the staff discounted fares on Eurostar...
From the original concept to today security concerns have only increased plus of course on border controls (after Brexit) those are more complex. Maintaining that security element - the Channel Tunnel being an obvious terrorist headline target - would have been difficult for regional international services. Cheap flights have been an element but often cheap flights do not put you where you want to be, whereas train services generally do. For example whats the taxi fare from Orly to Central Paris these days? Probably more than the airfare to Orly.
This is one of the reasons I used to travel from Germany to London using the Eurostar (and will hopefully do so again in the future). It takes a minimum of one hour to get to an airport from where I live (and that's Frankfurt - if you've ever been there, you know why I try to avoid that airport like the plague), and considering where London's airports are, it would take me nearly as long to get from any of them to anywhere in the city centre I'd actually want to go. Also, if the German site I use for taxi calculations is to be believed, Orly to the centre of Paris is around 28 Euros. That sounds kind of low to me, but I've never actually flown to Paris (from where I live, I really have no reason to do that), so I can't tell if that's realistic.
I am wondering about the security aspect. The Swiss Gotthard base tunnel is longer, but there are no security checks for trains running through it, so I'm not convinced that the Channel Tunnel actually needs them that badly.
@@dda40x unfortunately the UK (and France) have had a history of terrorist incidents whereas Switzerland has been more fortunate. An interesting point though and in the UK the Severn tunnel has no special controls
@@truebrit3578 perhaps. But France did see their share of terrorist incidents, they have made the calculation that it's not worth it. Same with Spain, yes, they didn't blow up an AVE, but blowing up some regional trains killed more people. I would wager that most terrorist plots get foiled with proper detective work, not with some uninterested security agent scanning luggage.
@@barvdw agreed although the Channel Tunnel is known globally. While it is likely that any attack would not damage the tunnel itself its more the psychology of what an attack would do. Underwater, 50 km long any incident would have global headlines and would likely damage the passenger business for some time even if there were no or few casualties.
As an aside - Sid, the 'Cockney Sparrer' emblem was born out of the later British Rail pre privatisation regime, where many individual repair and maintenance depots adopted a personalsation of locomotives, diesel and electric units allocated to their depots. Scottish depots chose the emblem of a Scottish terrier, and there were many themes local to their areas chosen by others. Stratford's personalisation started with silver painted roof panelling on several locomotives, and had union jack flags on the side which started after the painters had tarted one up for hauling the Royal Train! This changed to the Cockney sparrow motif not long before the depot finally closed in 1991, and were produced in tribute to the huge Stratford Works that once employed thousands in East London when it was a major piece of rail infrastructure. All is now lost under the Olympic Park and Westfield Shopping Centre complex, and not many probably know or care nowadays. From what I was told at the time, the name of 'Sid' was a tribute to Sid Hills, one of the characters that abounded in the railway industry and was one of the remaining longer serving staff who started in steam days and finally retired as the works shunting operative when the works closed. Ho hum - history moves on. Great vids. Thanks👍
Here in Kent we have 2 non international stations - Ashford and Ebbsfleet International. So it's either a time consuming ride into London and back out or trying to catch a non existent ferry from Dover
Hmm, that partly explains this weird station, which always seems to have tumbleweeds blowing past its platforms whenever I've used it. It is brilliant to be able to travel from Kent to Essex/Suffolk/Norfolk without having to undergo central London. However, why why why is the way from Strat Int to Stratford mainline such a secret?! Not a sign or an arrow or any other path-marking in sight😧 makes it very stressful when changing trains, to the uninitiated.
Changing between the main Stratford Station and the International station is a paint in the ****, as is trying to get to Kings Cross Internation from Essex. Either walk through Westfield Shopping centre, where there is a side entrance on the (I think)1st Floor, making sure you have a ticket, as the ticket halls are on the main station, or if you're loaded down with luggage take the DLR spur from the ground level platform to SI station;; you still have to cross the road to get to the main entrance.
Coming from the South East of Kent I've never much minded Stratford. A few years back (I'm not so sure about now) you could get a service from Stratford up to Ipswich which made travel from Kent to Suffolk very easy and without going though the center of London.
Even if it is inconvenient I would still rather travel by train than by plane to the UK. My Sister and her girlfriend did travel all the way from Stuttgart Germany to Glasgow by train because her girlfriend held a talk about agrivoltaics at COP. Also it would be double standard if you would travel by plane to a climate conference.
@@CandyMan2001 1100+ billionaires turn up at Davos in private planes to organize the rest of us so we won't be making the world a little warmer (allegedly)
@@CandyMan2001 Yep: I wonder what an F1 does to the gallon. However, I was told that one Jumbo crossing the 'pond' uses the equivalent of ALL the entourage of the F1 teams for a year. Can we confirm this or otherwise?
I have plans this year to visit my brother in St Gallen, to do the whole journey on the train making stops in between and taking in some principle cities along the way, once you get out of Britain the cost too is much more affordable, I can travel from France to Munich and then onto St Gallen for about the same price it costs me from Dorset to Glasgow.
Recently I got tickets on the Eurostar for £100 Return tickets. £50 for each journey. Pretty much the same as taking a bus. Only that in order to do it that way, you have to arrive at the train stations at crazy times.
As a teenager I visited the Stratford depot open day in 1983. There was a class 25 on its side that was recovered as part of a re-railing demonstration. Managed to get a job on BR after college and ended up as a S&T engineer. The Stratford site was enormous and there was a S&T stores that was accessed off Carpenters Road. Seem to recall having to cross several railway lines to get to it. Might've even been a rail triangle to navigate if my memory serves me correctly. Now all long gone as part of the redevelopment. They call it progress apparently. Was also fortunate to look around Finsbury Park depot before it was demolished - heavily vandalised and not a Deltic in sight. Same can be said for a weekend up at March yard before the tracks were lifted. At the time a huge amount of stock awaiting scrapping was located there. My brief was to get a twin train horn for my mate's Ford Capri. Found one on a DMU and duly removed it. I think horns on trains ran at 100 PSI. The Ford Capri's compressor didn't and the resulting two tones were rather a let down. Keep up the good work Jago.
There was a idea floating around that DB were planning to use Stratford International as their terminus for their ICE Services after one of their trains did go to St. Pancras International as DB were planning to use HS1 with their trains but again it was one of those things that never happened.
Yes. A DB train arrived. But then there was an argument that they had two power cars and not one and that made them technically incompatible. It all sounded to me like people being deliberately obstructive.
That DB ICE set which was displayed at St Pancras was actually towed from the Tunnel. ICE units were not cleared to use the Tunnel. It was the same when SNCF's TGV Postal reached St Pancras.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 I remember it arriving at St Pancras under its own power. Still, it may well have been towed through the tunnel, which would rather confirm my point about people being deliberately obstructive.
@@roderickmain9697 It had to be towed from Calais (I think) as it wasn't certified to operate under its own power through the Tunnel. The latter has a number of its diesel locos which are used to tow trains etc. This video clip shows La Poste TGV being towed though Staratford Int on its visit to StPancras many years ago. ua-cam.com/video/V8UIyPYrMZw/v-deo.html
I've only just realised that Stratford International and Stratford (London) aren't the same station, although they're very close. Then there's Stratford upon Avon, which isn't.
I travelled on a few, I think it was to increase capacity and cover overhauls of HST and 225 units. They could only use some platforms at KX and elsewhere. Not as fast as on HS mostly due to power (or lack of ) from the UK OHE.
How realistically feasible do you believe that a government actually concerned with climate change regarding transportation would go back and use Stratford International for HS1?
Funny you should ask. I just went into that a little more than ever intended in a comment responding to "A to Z by Local Bus" above. I could actually go right into it quite happily regarding the pros-cons, impacts ( positive, negative, and unintended), socio-economic and socio-political connotations. Personal choice V personal 'responsibility'. Government apathy and interference. God there's so much that goes into it even if you're just scratching the surface. There is of course a maxim to bare in mind at all times: Governments tend to only think as far as the next election. Things that benefit society as a whole are rarely achieved in such brief periods of time. 😉
One aspect of the international service is available at SI - the superfast trains. The service from SI to StP is notable for being the fastest and most expensive in London.
A good video, as always, but I must take issue with your description of the pre-Eurostar version of St Pancras as "dismal and underused". When I lived in Leicester I used it quite frequently and I found it friendly and straightforward, in contrast to some of the other London termini - especially Euston. It also a had a cosy bar which was handy if you had to wait for your train back to the East Midlands.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.. I loved the old St Pancras.. the noise from the revving engines, the thick diesel fumes, the post vans careering across the concourse towards the mail trains when you were waiting for the late train home, the grime.. it just screamed London! Of course the new sanitised version is okay..
It was nice, but it was underused. I remember suggesting diverting Aylesbury trains to it when Marylebone was being proposed for closure. Since then it (and Kings Cross) have undergone a remarkable transformation.
The other good thing about the St Pancras renaissance is the saving of the main buildings, even though the High Victorian Gothic style divided opinion. A French visitor asked to comment said "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la gare" (for original version, see the Charge of the Light Brigade).
I think it would make more sense to call the station Stratford Olympic, and revert to the International epithet should it ever get those services. Though with the announcement of German Rail operator DB wanting to use the tunnel it may yet get a service.
Ah Stratford, dear Stratford. I am probably in a substantial minority of people who is now far less likely to go there out of choice now than before the gentrifica…I mean, ‘regeneration’ started. I remember the yards that stretched as far as the eyes could see, the old works buildings and the almost post apocalyptic appearance of the old low level station with its peripheral decoration of random portacabins and dingy old generic Victorian out buildings, any of which could have concealed a missing body for decades and none would be the wiser 🤣 I must admit of course, I do go there frequently but it is usually either because I am driving en route to Liverpool Street at weekends or through engineering works at Fen St, or as an interchange. I refuse to set foot into the retail killing zone that is Westfield and so when I have had occasion to use “International” as an easier way to get to St Pancras (or in the past when my old job occasionally took me to Broadstairs and Canterbury) I either use the DLR or walk a route around the building from Stratford ‘proper’ when I find, like you, the DLR is bloody shut on a Saturday morning en route to the Great Central Railway 🙄 Nice to see mention of Sid. It’s nice when on certain 37s in preservation and occasionally on the main line, you will see a little Sid on the side. It seems however that even that little piece of Stratford has now been given an aesthetic upgrade to a Pied Wagtail 🤣😂😅 (I dearly love Pied Wagtails BTW so that wasn’t a dig 😜) Splendid stuff sir. Many thanks 👍🍀🍻
Thanks for the info Jago! Since moving from London to Kent this has become my new regular train line and I always though in pre-pandemic days the eurostar stopped at Stratford thus the name. Sounds like a massive mess-up that should have been corrected years ago.
I'd like to think given the ever present climate catastrophe we're approaching, there'd be a much bigger market for international trains in the future. Maybe I'm just being optimistic.
As with anything, I think the main thing that will shape it will be cost. If air travel remains cheaper than Eurostar, it’ll probably continue to remain popular. You’d like to think more people would consider rail travel not just in terms of the Eurostar, but in general, but realistically if prices don’t go down, passenger figures probably won’t go up.
Politically difficult though. Trains have low running costs, but the up-front construction costs are horrific. The HS1 line costs six billion pounds, and took sixteen years to build. The HS2 line costs... we don't know, because it's still not done, ten years after the announcement. It takes years of planning and securing land ownership before the first track can be laid. So why would any government want to throw all that money into a project that won't yield any benefits until everyone involved is long out of office? Or worse: If the pendulum of power has shifted the other way, the opposition might take credit for it. The same thing holds for private investment - not many company executives would think it a good investment to start building a project that won't return anything for at least a decade and likely longer. That may be good value for shareholders ten years from now, but it's not good value for shareholders right now.
Excellent Jago. What is really baffling is with the opening of the Elizabeth line Stratford could provide a simpler link to Heathrow, and the Great Western routes. If you stand on platform 11 at Stratford I think you can see into Stratford International but there is no direct link. Rubbish with Eliz coming soon.
@@johnm2012 Yes but this is a right faff, when a step free direct access to Elizabeth line is possible. Problem is Stratford itself needs a redesign to take into account its growing complexity.
At least the Eurostar (International) platforms got some use, they were used during the 2012 Olympics because of the high frequency shuttles between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras, the platform heights were artificially risen and the escalators saw some action for the only time since being built. I remember they International 'customs/passport" area was obvious when you got into the station box but not fitted out properly so it could easily be instated.
Bit of a mix up on dates there!!!. Regional EuroStar (and indeed its sleeper companion NightStar) were abandoned in the late 1990s by the then Tory government desperate to off load the railways ftom government control before they were removed from power. It was found that, not only were Euro/Nightstar a legislative nightmare to franchise due the the problems of non self contained UK operation but also near impossible to palm off onto friendly banks due to huge lead in times before any possibility of share holder return. The regional EuroStar sets were mostly pushed off for domestic service in France/Belgium (out of sight out of mind) while the Nightstar Sleepers that had been completed at vast taxpayer cost were sold to VIA Rail Canada at an enormous loss. The 37s intended for non electric Night Star service were sold off, 6 initially to DRS (which being a government operator removed any embarrassment about tenders and the huge loss from their conversion) while the other six remained to drag the odd Eurostar about as required until they too were quietly transferred to DRS.....the 92s for electric NightStar were quietly stored away out of public sight....... .......with the exception of three Regional Eurostars repatriated and operated by GNER Kings Cross-Leeds to release 91s for madification, it was all dead and buried by 1997.....
Not so much the Tories not wanting it - remember that the Channel Tunnel was planned, approved and financed by them, after Labour had dropped the previous plans in the 1970s. More that Eurostar didn't think it could ever pay (and did their best to ensure it wouldn't). Connecting trains from elsewhere in Britain were run but were a dismal failure, and rather pointless. Easier to take a normal service and change in London.
@@iankemp1131 Do remember that, at the time, European Passenger Services (EPS) responsible for Eurostar Cross Border, Le Shuttle, Eurostar Regional and NightStar WERE THE GOVERNMENT!! As was the operator responsible for "connecting" trains, namely British Rail Intercity Sector. At the time in question it was, despite some opaque branding (which some fried no doubt recieved a fat cheque) all British Rail and directly controlled by the government...🤷♂️
Stratford International was used most during the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics as ticketholders for events at the main Olympics park were given free access to the high speed Javelin services to and from St Pancras. I used it myself to get back into town after one such event - much quicker and more roomy than the tube.
Speaking of southern English trains: In 1959 my family visited London. Dad was USAF stationed in France. We flew to London on a Comet(I was waiting for the wings to fall off). Did all the tourist things over 5 days. We then took the train to catch the ferry back to Le Havre where the car was parked. I was disappointed that the train was not pulled by a steam engine, the compartments did not have doors like all the movies showed, and the power was supplied by third rail like a subway not an overhead wire like a proper railroad. My fourteen year old self felt someone needs to show these folks how to build railroads. Note: in some areas movies translates as cinema.
@@MattMcIrvin Thank you, that knowledge would have calmed me a little. At that time the only thing I had heard about Comet was that they fell out of the sky on a regular basis; never mind the problem had been solved year previously
International trains!!! I recall when they built overnight sleeper trains to be used on the Channel Tunnel from the north of England and Scotland only to find out that the current requirements to heat and service the carriages exceeded the overhead supply
And then Canada took those sleeper coaches and is now called the VIA Rail Canada Renaissance Fleet, mostly used on The Ocean route from Montreal, QC to Halifax, NS, though I think some Renaissance cars have been used on The Corridor (Windsor/Sarnia - London - Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec City), the closest thing we have to true Intercity service in Canada, everything else are fancy excursions and Once in a lifetime trains
@@coastaku1954 I was in Thunder Bay, ON about 15 years ago and I saw, in a field with no tracks a bunch of the sleeper cars sitting there. Some didn't have wheels, others didn't have windows. I was back there about 5 years ago and they were gone.
@@lawrencelewis2592 Yes, I think about 30 cars were not used and were in fact stored in Thunder Bay. Maybe Bombardier was doing the conversions at their Thunder Bay Plant (Where they make the Bi-Level coaches for GO Transit) and VIA Rail cancelled the conversion of those 30 cars, I can't remember exactly but that would be the most likely of answers
THey was gonna put them in but I'm unsure if they actually did because it was when I was like 1 lol 😆 but yeah typical thing they spend god only knows how much it only to figure that the heaters over exceed the amps in the OLE and end up causing issues and things to blow lol 😆
I remember I was kinda excited to take a bus journey that linked up with a train to go through the Channel Tunnel years ago given how we're all used to flying. I personally loved it but it kinda made me feel like I was in an old episode of The Crystal Maze (just missing Richard O'Brien dedicating a harmonica solo to "Mumsy"). It's probably for the best that Stratford is not a starting/end point for tourists - one look around and they'd probably demand to get the flight home immediately.
Stratford was a pretty terrible place back in the ‘70s when I first knew it. Several burned out buildings, I think one of them had been a paint factory, the remains of which remained for years. Most of the traditional industry had gone. Most of the station platforms were disused, 12 which used to be an islane with 13 on the other side couldn’t ecen be reached as the subway had been bricked up beyond the stairs up to 10, now 10a, and 11. 1 and 2, now 16 and 17, on the low level had the little-used Diesel service from North Woolwich to Tottenham Hale which used to go via South Tottenham and Seven Sisters to Palace Gates until that line closed in 1963. The old subway to platforms 9 and above now reopened as the East subway was almost disused and was often blocked off and was full of rubbish and a few interesting things, such as some old blue and white glass platform signs which had been dumped down there. The unused bay platforms 4 and 7 were still there, without track. 4 was later used by the DLR for a few years until its new platforms 4a and 4b were built, but 7 was never used. The Bow Back Rivers were in a terrible state, silted up, full of rubbish and the tow paths almost unwalkable, you could just about get through in the winter when some of the vegetation had died back. Then there were the derelt City Mill and Carpenter’s Road locks, now both restored to use.
I had always assumed that Stratford International had been built for the 2012 Olympics, so passengers from Paris or Brussels could get off nearer to where the action was. Thanks for putting the record straight. Numerous tube stations have been renamed, as many of your previous videos have shown, so why can't HS1 join in the fun and change the name of Stratford International?
Changing the name of an NR station is not so straightforward as it requires all the signalling, pathing & timetabling systems to be updated. EG Northampton has had a plan to de-rename their station back to “Northampton Castle” for about 10yrs but hasn’t yet happened. Same reason it’s easier to put a new platform 0 in than to renumber all the existing platforms.
@@SportyMabamba The 'platform 0' problem can just as easily be solved by giving the new platform a really high number. For instance, in Nijmegen (The Netherlands), the new track built next to track 1 has been named 'track 35'. Or do as the Belgians do and give new tracks on the platform 1 end a letter. Look at Leuven, with tracks A, B, C and D all alongside through track 1.
@@Roblilley999 a direct service to Paris would also require a customs area in Birmingham. Which shouldn't be that difficult but it will depend on demand.
@@hairyairey I mean, it wouldn't if the British government didn't have such a bone-headed stance on international rail travel. Which also killed off any plans for extending Eurostar services past London (with trainsets having been bought), night services past London and into Germany and southern France (again, the rolling stock had been bought) and direct connections from London into Germany (with fitting rolling stock already existing and the demand being there). And there really isn't any operational or security reason for requiring stationary airport-style security checks and fenced off platform areas.
@@mikeblatzheim2797 since the UK is not in Schengen then passport checks are needed. As for the international travel I think those decisions were made by the tunnel's owners. A substantial amount of capacity through the tunnel is used by the shuttle service.
I would suggest Stratford High Speed as a better name, if it wasn't for Stratford High Street two stops away. Sadly it just isn't practical as a Eurostar stop. It's far too close to St. Pancras for it to be worthwhile
I think the sparrow is based on the "Cockley sparrow " which is a term given to a cheerful talkative kind of chap who strictly speaking should be born within the sound of Bow bells.
@Alfred Wedmore Ah,fond memories of visiting the cinema at Leicester Square in the sixties with my Mother and two sisters to see Mary Poppins.And indeed, what was that about, casting the Dick as a cockney. Incidentally in my original post my spellchecker decided to spell cockney as Cockley and I didn't spot it !!
I remember the service in the early Waterloo days - what an embarrassment! Being overtaken by 40 year old commuter trains as it wobbled on the old rails on the run up to London. Problem was it used 3rd rail power that could only deliver 4 MW of power and the power to weight ratio was awful. On French side (and in the tunnel) the overhead 25 kV pantograph system could deliver 16 MW allowing full 300 km/hr cruising speed.
Ahh yes. As you've dropped yourself in it 1st i'll also admit being old enough to remember when it was at Waterloo. About the only upside I can recall is that you at least got a pretty good view of the trains on the approach if your own local/ commuter service arrived on the 'right' side of the station ( that of course ironically being the left hand side when viewed as arriving into Waterloo)
The Eurostar/International Departures lounge at Stratford was an interesting sight; it was equipped with French Juxtaposed passport booths (through the grey painted doors, you might still be able to see them), and a UK Border Force area on the arrivals side. It's identical in internal layout to Ebbsfleet International, if you wondered how it would have worked. The departures hall and associated back of house areas were used by Bouygues during the construction of the very tall, odd building opposite as construction offices.
Don't forget that there IS a train from Stratford to Harwich International for the ferry wot leaves Stratford proper station (not the high speed malarky) at 06.43 on a weekday. So I reckon that the railway companies should just swop around the signs. Stratford International where you get the trains to Harwich International (and Billericay and Ingatestone etc) and just plain Stratford when you wanna go High Speed to....Kent. And as for that sparrow logo surely it had something to do with a "Cockney Sparrow" something that our modern children would need to go on google to learn about (sadly).
If only they could open it to continental services. Maybe they could have an overnight service to the south of France and Barcelona. They could call them "Nightstars"...oh, hang on a minute....
I had the misfortune of living next the the former Freight Yards when the Channel Tunnel Rail Link was started. The construction work caused clouds of dust, 24hr noise, constant HGV traffic and then we were all "decanted" from our estate under Compulsory Purchase for the Olympic Park construction around 2006. Indeed a White Elephant, the Mayor of Newham was said to be seething when it was announced no CTRL trains would be stopping at Stratford! At least they got to cover acres of open land around Stratford, Hackney Wick and Leyton with endless boxlike "apartments" at exorbitant prices /rent. LegacySchmegacy..
Reminds me of how at least 75% of American airports are called "international", even some suburban or rural airstrips without even commercial airline service, let alone international flights. (From what I've heard, the only criteria is having a customs station.)
A Glasgow to Paris service could work if you had Glasgow to London passengers on the train who were replaced with London to Paris passengers when it gets to London. Glasgow is not as big a place as London, there's about 3 million people within the catchment area of Glasgow Central for international services, vs about 24 million within the catchment area of St Pancras. Such a service would need to run about once every two hours, otherwise Glaswegians would take the train to Kings Cross or Euston and change there, like they do at the moment. The problem with this idea is that it doesn't work well with border control. You can't ask Glaswegians to show their passport to French border police to get to London, and you can't have the possibility of them buying split tickets for the Glasgow-London and London-Paris legs of the journey to avoid the border controls.
@@highpath4776 That would complicate things even more, because then you would need both English and French border police at Glasgow; and both Scottish and English border police at Paris.
You can split the train in two parts. One half is for Glasgow-Paris and gets checked in Glasgow. Another half is for Glasgow-London (with no checks), empties and gets security-swept in London, then is filled with fresh London-Paris passengers. That's the solution that's currently in place for Amsterdam-Brussels-London trains. Major downside, of course, is the long standstill in London required for swapping 450 passengers with 450 new ones and doing a security sweep in between. The Amsterdam-London service currently stops in Brussels for 27 minutes, which is an insane time loss. In my opinion, having an infrequent Glasgow-Paris without carrying London passengers would be the best implementation for a direct Glasgow-Paris train. One early-morning departure (with train+personnel that would otherwise start their shift in London), and perhaps another one in the early afternoon (with train+personnel that would otherwise be in a siding between commuter peaks).
Yeah it’s disappointing in regards to the station, I remember being in school and being so geared up for the new station and the whole “back the bid” london 2012 hype. Saw all those made up pics with eurostars down there in the station, just such a shame they dont make use of those long ass platforms lol
Stratford International could have been truly international but for Brexit. The TransMarche Metro idea would have meant stopping trains from Calais to St. Pancras for people who were commuting to Canary Wharf from homes in the Calais area, where property prices are nowhere as insane as London and the South East. From SI it's a simple change to get to Canary Wharf, although it is a double change for the fastest route ( DLR to Jubilee Line at Stratford ).
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
It would be great if they have a low cost eurostar. In France, we have the Ouigo, which is a low cost version of the TGV train who goes slower, the trains are far in Paris but it can go from 5€. The low cost eurostar would go from Stratford International to … maybe Stade de France-Saint Denis (a train station quite close to Gare du Nord, the parisian stop. Stade de France-Saint Denis is next to Saint Denis Pleyel, a future station who will be ready for Paris Olympic Games and will be the new main station for the new subways lines (line 14 to 17). Another terminus possible to that would be Disneyland (Marne-la-Vallee). I know there is eurostars stopping there. It could be great if they do several stops ( like one english close to the channel, Calais, Lille, maybe Beauvais?) , the travel time would be 3:30-4 hours, and the price wouldn’t exceed 80€.
Though it may not be used for international services, the station is very useful for connecting through to Kent, East Anglia and North London which would otherwise involve travelling through Central London via the tube to Victoria, Charing Cross or Liverpool Street. Certainly not the most attractive station (far too much concrete) but very convenient (the shopping centre next door is a good place to spend any spare time between connections too).
The UK and EU could really easily make it possible to link the UK to the big SNCF, Trenitalia, and ICE networks, and to make it affordable and even preferable to air travel, plus the UK could learn so much from DB and the internal German ICE services. These are all political choices. And I think one side is getting more and more open to making them, but the other....
I walked through the concourse on my way to the DLR station and given the acres of glass frontage, I was surprised just how small is the entrance to the platforms. The station also seems to be at the back of beyond and I wonder just how well it is used?
I really think there’s no good reason why HS2 can’t be connected with HS1 at Stratford International. It might be my train-loving rose-tinted glasses talking here, but I reckon there’s more of a market for Eurostar Regional services than the big-wigs believed at the time, I mean there must be a reason that Eurostar connects so many different locations in Europe but only one in the UK.
I live in Stratford and was deeply disappointed that international services never left from this station. That said, the seven minute hop to St Pancras is really smooth and easy, so it ended up not a big deal.
This is like those small American airports. Portland International Jetport in Maine is purely domestic (I know as it was my local for a few years) - unless Canada counts as International (couple flights from Toronto etc)
I don't think it's fair to say that international trains have never really caught on in this country. Eurostar do hold most of the market share of traffic between London and Paris, and the Amsterdam service has certainly proved to be popular, to the extent that before the pandemic they had been ultimately planning to increase it to five trains a day. As for flying being quicker and cheaper, that doesn't take into account the time and cost of getting to and from the airports. The Eurostar takes about 2 hours to Brussels and about 2 and a half to Paris (the fastest services even being about 15 minutes quicker), and it takes you directly into the heart of the city, plus it is possible to get it for about £30 each way if you book far enough ahead and there are no extra costs like baggage fees or airport transfers. I'm sure one of these days there will be a case for connecting HS1 and HS2. With London to Birmingham projected to take around 45 minutes, that would give a hypothetical Birmingham to Paris journey time of around 3 hours, which is about how long London to Paris took before HS1 and still an hour less than what it takes to Amsterdam, so would certainly be within the times that passengers seem fine to spend now
@@coastaku1954 The argument against connecting the two lines that it would impact negatively on Camden seems somewhat undermined (almost literally) by the fact that Crossrail 2 will necessitate building a tunnel there anyway!
@@Inkyminkyzizwoz I just don't see a point in having 2 high speed rail lines that ARENT connected directly. I know London has like a million termini but really? You guys could do so much better, and you showed that off with Crossrail. I'm from Canada, we only have one major station per city, except NYC, Chicago and Montreal have 2
@@coastaku1954 What are you talking about? A new north south tunnel through London connecting HS1 and HS2?? the two are both just north of central London right next to each other (like 1 tube station away)
For several years before the regional Eurostar services were formally abandoned, their timetable was published in the national railway timetable book with a footnote saying “to be introduced during the validity of this timetable”. The trains were ready, but it never happened. It seemed such a waste. I wonder if any other services appeared in the timetable book but never ran.
I also agree. Why is Stratford International station called “International” as Southeastern highspeed Class 395 Javelin trains stop and serves the station and Eurostar trains passes right through without even stopping there. Whilst Stratford (Regional) station is becoming more and more busier and with Elizabeth Line to become fully operational later this year. Making Stratford station even more overcrowded and Stratford International station less overcrowded and more peaceful and spacious.
Because the plan was for some Eurostar services to stop there. But for that to happen UK Border facilities would be needed and the govt is not prepared to pay the bill.
I love train travel and it would always be my first choice of long distance transport within Europe but... It is just not affordable. Austria does an annual unlimited public transport ticket called Klimaticket. They do regional versions, as well as a more expensive national version. I would love to one day see an agreement across Europe for a continental Klimaticket.
Funny how Eurostar has had to reduce capacity because of brexit. I’m not sure the demand is much lower but capacity is hampered by passport processing times.
I learned about rail passport control when I rode Amtrak from Seattle to Vancouver, BC. The train ran like a completely normal train through Washington state until it crossed into Canada and made no more stops until it pulled into a platform completely exposed to the weather and walled in by tall fences. At the very doorway of the station building stands the Canadian customs guard to check each passenger individually. Going the other way, you can check-in first before departure and then wait for your train, but entering from the U.S. makes you feel like a refugee. Border controls are why I'm doubtful about plans to connect Chicago with Toronto and southern Ontario by rail.
Pre Covid I used the Marseille service from St Pancras. As a northerner there wasn’t a service early enough in the morning to get me there so I had to travel down the night before and stay overnight. A regional Eurostar service would saved me a day and expense. Such a shame it never happened.
Are they still making hs2? I was told its not being made in the North, which is a bit rubbish considering it can take like half the time to go by car, as all our infastructure was built in either the 1800s or 1960s and 70s for steel workers.. You can probably guess the city from that.
Stratford International: We're international!
Us: We understand you're by the Olympic Park, but you don't have any Eurostars stopping at your station-
Stratford International: *DID I STUTTER?*
There's a joke about Stratford International, the only country you can get to from there is Cyprus...which is just another DLR station
🎶 hello, we're International!
Canada Water
Back in the day, when the Eurostar still went from Waterloo, I was at St Pancras. I noticed there was a Eurostar parked on the end track. So being nosey I went to see why. Some workers were marking the outline of the train with road spikes and tape. I asked what they were doing. They explained that they had to build new platforms for when the Eurostar moved to there; so this was to work out where to put them. I liked the practicality, but wondered why that wasn't just something they just put in the plans. The guys then explained the full history of every time trains had been ordered for other lines, but then didn't fit. So they wanted to draw round an actual train.
Similar problems with the new Eurostar trains that don't fit the platforms at Ashford International - they had to make changes to the platforms.
@@imsbvs They should have got some road spikes.
@@imsbvs Same thing at Paris Nord, the new e320 fit the platforms, barely! But the signals couldn't be seen from the cab. So a guard/conductor had to "read" the signal from the platform and wave/radio it back to the driver inside the cab as the train departed. I think it's been properly fixed now.
When Salisbury Depot got it’s first class 170s they temporarily fitted wooden footsteps under the door openings and ran the unit slowly over night through every intended local station to check the platforms were suitable.
Amazing how workers will sometimes tell observers a bunch of absolute tosh just for their own amusement....😄😄
My grandfather was a shunter in Stratford Yard during WWII. unfortunately one night his engine was hit by a German Bomb . So I never got to meet him. RIP Grandad
And I used to listen to him. Probably. RIP.
@@jean_mollycutpurse_winchester do you really think you knew my grandfather. I had the pleasure of meeting his fireman albeit at my Mother's funeral some 13 now nearly 14 years ago.
@@michaelcampin1464 No, I was just a child and used to hear the steam engines at night.I lived very close to Leyton Station. Hearing those sounds was comforting and I loved the trains.
As someone who's never been to the UK, I thought for quite a while that Stratford International was a station serving a nearby airport and that that was why it was called International. "Stratford Airport" sounded familiar to me after all. Then years later I realized I was thinking of Stansted and that Stratford International is not actually international. Ever since then I have not been the same.
Well you can get a DLR from Statford Internation to London City Airport
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
there is a Birmingham international station linked to Birmingham airport & the NEC
@@isaactimmins8959 For most of the 1990s there was a massive advert at Birmingham International saying that in a few years' time you would be able to get on a train at the station and travel all the way through to France and beyond without getting off the train. I believed it would happen.
Let me introduce you to “Southampton London Airport”..
I suppose you could call it Stratford I(n't)ernational.
Ba Dum Tss!
That's very entertaining 🤣
Intern(ation)al
Stratford Ain'ternational?
Stratford Isn'ternational
The one thing you don't mention is that this route has really made the seaside towns on the Kent coast readily accessible, and that 7 minutes to St Pancras in the other direction can be useful when there are no fast alternatives available (on a tube strike day for example)
it's a very useful connection if you have to get between east anglia and anywhere in kent, or even south east london, given most trains from that direction stop at stratford main. I quite liked not changing in central london for once!
I recently rode the Southeastern Highspeed. Generally very impressed. Very surprised by the lack of first class and a refreshment trolley though. Even with HS1, the Kent coast towns are the same distance in terms of time from London as Birmingham is.
It's great for traveling to Southend Airport too.
Thanks to Op Brock, it's more necessary than ever.
Yeah a couple months back i woke up on a Monday morning in Hythe, only 15 minutes earlier than I normally would have and arrived at school in Redbridge at normal time.
Actually, i think that Eurostar and High speed rail will yet have their day...I have used Eurostar for 3.5 round trips, (dont ask about the .5!) and its by far the nicest stress free way to get from London to Paris..maybe a rival operator will give Stratford its International Rescue... (cue Thunderbird One!)
FAB
Was it a strike? Was it a technical failure? Did you move?
They will also need to recruit Brains !!
@@hughjanus1840 I thought that would be a good reply and I'll bet nobody else will have thought of it - wrong !!
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
A lot of effort was put into making Eurostar just as inconvenient as air travel. There were lots of ideas for Eurostar services further into continental Europe as well as ICE services to Great Britain. All of these went nowhere fast because of the requirements for passport checks and blocking off entire platforms making these proposed trains incompatible with just about any kind domestic service, immediately limiting the potential number of passengers.
This.
In part caused by the UK not being part of the Schengen area. Except for covid measures per country, you are in the zone when you are in and out when you are out. Crossing that boundary is complicated while travelling inside of it is very simple and requires no checks at all.
@@knownothing5518 Even given this, it would not be difficult to do passport checks on the train. And the Security isn't really needed
I can't say I found a trip from the coast of Mid Wales to Cologne particularly onerous, checking in at St Pancras didn't take many minutes.
@@grahvis They say to check in 90-120 minutes before. It doesn't actually take that long, at least normally, but I think it *can* do which means a lot of waiting
What I find really interesting is that to enable the Eurostar regional trains they actually made a Eurostar sleeper train set with the idea that it could run from Edinburgh, stop at Stratford, and then go on to Paris or Brussels or Amsterdam or maybe even further as part of the Eurostar Ski-train ensemble running down to the French Alps.
Honestly the idea was one some 20+ years ahead of its time as it's only now with the return of sleeper trains across Europe that something like the proposed Eurostar Sleeper would work fantastically (obviously though there's the "if Brexit hadn't happened and thrown a wrench into everything") and would allow for people from the North to get on a train, go to sleep and wake up as they are coming in to their destination.
Honestly it would have been a great idea and would have made use of Stratford but it got scrapped before it could even get started really.
I think the Eurostar sleepers are now used in Canada!
Brexit doesn't affect Eurostar, the agreement to check passports for example has nothing to do with the EU. But I do love how people have to shoehorn it into everything
@@hairyairey Are there now not any customs checks?
@@henrybest4057 Eurostar had customs checks and security checkpoints more reminiscent of an airport than a train station way before Brexit became a thing. Brexit may have made things even worse (I wouldn't know; I haven't gone on a Eurostar since 2019, what with the plague and all), but the whole "worst of both worlds" thing with Eurostar where it feels like all the bad parts of trains *and* airplanes was definitely there even when I first went to London in 2015.
@@MrGreatplum Indeed. The service was branded as Nighstar (all details on wiki) and Canada bought most of the rolling stock. See here:
ua-cam.com/video/sQdGvtZeBXY/v-deo.html
Yes but it made for a very convenient changing station when I would go from my university flat in Gillingham, Kent home to Wickford, Essex. Just two trains and a short walk through a shopping centre. As someone who considers Essex and Kent different countries, Stratford International achieves its title in my twisted interpretation.
Interesting take on it, thanks
Great point, I have a mate who lives in Kent and does the same to go to uni in East Anglia.
yes but the stench of coffee and fast food while you're walking
Back in my nursing days I used to commute from Grove Park in south London to Brentwood in Essex with a lively walk between London Bridge and Liverpool St, it was lucky too that the capitalcard back then covered me to Harold Wood and I would get the hospital bus from the hospital to my hospital saving me a fair bit and my fare was back then £23 a week wholly affordable.
Kent? Is that what Pas de Calais Nord used to be called?
The international departures concourse @ Stratford international is interesting as it's a huge unused space... it's a bit sad really that it never saw a service. The station has a twin building in Ebbsfleet... and there you can see what the Eurostar build-out would have looked like... though since 2020 this has also been abandoned
The UK is rather bad at this sort of thing, strange given the lessons we should have learnt from our Victorian forefathers. Still, give our great leaders promise to lay before the Heathrow bulldozers, it's 1 step forward and 5 steps back. Short-termism rules ok!
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
@@fritzhenning1 I suspect with Heathrow's third runway that it will clear all the necessary legal hurdles, the government will claim they're completely committed to it, but then find an excuse to kick it into the proverbial long grass, so continuing to leave the residents of the two affected villages in limbo.
good job too I mean Ebbsfleet, why ?
Stratford was given an enormous circulating area as it was intended to handle visitor traffic to the adjacent 2012 Olympics.....
.......traffic which never materialised!
I actually preferred rolling into Waterloo on the eurostar, the sight of the London Eye, houses of Parliament, Battersea power station all felt more London... Even going through the old stations in South London... Maybe its just me, but it felt more like coming home... Great episode sir, I am actually driving to London tomorrow from Vienna, will be there for 2 weeks... Will catch up on the other episodes whilst there for sure... 😊👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 Good old Sid
It was very slow on the old third rail line though.
Agree, Many say the same especially those living in Hampshire.
Yes, same thought when arriving into Victoria Station. But, you do get to see the Dartford bridge and the M2 & M20 motorways as you wiz past at 140 mph on the domestic service - or 180 mph if on the Eurostar trains
It used to go through Catford on occasion, that was amusing
I thought they chose Waterloo as the London terminus for the train from France to remind any French travellers of the battle the staion is named after, thus continuing the 1,000 year old British tradition of putting the French in their place.
About the same time, a Eurostar departure lounge was built on platform 10 at Glasgow Central. It lay largely un-used for several years, until it was demolished when the two extra platforms were built for the Glasgow Airport rail-link. Another white elephant that never happened. So not only am I unable to take the once-promised sleeper from Glasgow to Paris, but I can't even take a once-promised train to Glasgow Airport!
Incidentally, the two extra platforms were gifted to ScotRail, enabling an increased frequency to operate to/from Ayr (via Prestwick Airport LOL).
It's funny that Scotland doesn't yet seem to have good rail links to any of its airports - even Edinburgh Gateway is a good mile and a half away from the terminal, and just acts as an interchange with the trams. In fact, ironically Prestwick is probably the airport with the nearest railway station, despite it being one of the less used in the country.
@@theenigmaticst7572 I used to use Prestwick in those years when it was busy, and there was a deal with ScotRail where you got a half-price ticket to/from any station in Scotland, provided you showed a boarding card or flight confirmation. It's a lovely airport to use, but the perception is that it's in the wrong place. Regarding Edinburgh Airport, there's now a regular bus direct from Glasgow which I have used - and as I'm old enough to qualify for a free bus pass, it doesn't cost me anything. The drivers are all Glaswegians too, a nice welcome back after a trip abroad! Aberdeen Airport has Dyce station right next to it, as well as an off-licence to service the returning off-shore workers who pile onto some trains.
@@Clivestravelandtrains I didn't even remember Aberdeen airport in my post - I'll slap my wrists for that one!!! I think that Inverness is getting a new station for the airport, if I remember rightly - and I think I know the service from Glasgow to Edinburgh Airport - I'm based in the East of the country so my experience is more Edinburgh than Glasgow, I have used Glasgow once or twice, but Prestwick, never!
Don't worry, you will soon be able to get a tram from Govan to the airport.!!!
The Brits: Building a tunnel with the French across the English Channel as a sign of friendship
Also the Brits: *Own the French by having the London terminus be at Waterloo*
Ah yes...the duality of man
If you think of the UK and France as two brothers fighting over the centuries, it makes complete sense 😂
It's not just us. The French have always made the Austrians arrive at the Gare d'Austerlitz 😆
@@ottermanuk "If you think of the UK and France as two brothers". No way, most British people don't think of France like a brother! England and Scotland are the bickering brothers, but France is..... not.
Unfortunately also because of Covid, Eurostar trains aren't stopping at Ebbsfleet or Ashford at the moment.
So if you want to go international from Stratford, you have to go backwards to St Pancras then back out again passing Stratford once more!
Indeed, Eurostar says it will not be calling at its Kent stations until 2023 at the earliest. Same with its seasonal service to the South of France ... suspended.
I think there may be 1 Eurostar from Ashford to Disney a week but that’s it/
@@Darkuk Possibly but I doubt it.
Can't see ES returning to those places. What they need to do is refurb the drab interiors of the Javelins with very comfy seats to justify retaining the supplement fare & then have at least a skeleton ES service at Ashford at least, so people can connect there.
Sorry to contradict Jago, but Eurostar got 70% of the London-Paris market share and a pretty good proportion of London-Brussels, so that in both cases the airlines cut back markedly on those routes. Not bad for a supposed failure! I find the airport-style security checks at St Pancras far quicker, smoother and more relaxed than at any London airport.
If you view the video Jago explained why evaluated regional services with longer journey times and additional expense were overtaken by the revolution in low cost air travel.
As a child I really, really loved trains, and so when possible my dad would drive me past Stratford station where they had a bunch of old steam engines on plinths. Sometimes we'd park up and I'd just sit there marvelling at them. And then one day when we drove past it was fenced off and there were construction works everywhere, my dad explained that they were taking the trains away. I was very, very upset. Living near the Central line and TFL rail, I often find myself in Stratford, and recently I noticed that outside the station, behind all the buses, stalls and people, they still have one of those old trains sitting out there :D
Edit: And Google has revealed to me that there was only ever one train out there, his name is Robert, and you've done a video on him!
I went on the Eurostar when it was from Waterloo - it really did trundle through the UK until it hit France then it went so fast it took your head off. Al Murray made a great joke about the Eurostar wanting to get out of France and away from the French as quickly as possible, and when it got to England it slowed right down so it could take in the beautiful British scenery. He wasn't wrong!!
I think it's more accurate to say that the train is slow and depressed in the UK because it's around too many British "people", and it finally speeds up again once it gets inspired by France.
What really killed international rail was that the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet became so cheap that people couldn't justify paying extra for nice comfortable seats, generous baggage limits and an end point that was much closer (and more well connected to everywhere).
I'm a big supporter of air travel where its efficient, but that's normally just mid-long haul flights. Rail really should be the primary means of travel and on some routes it could be even quicker than flying if we got it right
@@benrampling812 For most of the UK, most of Europe is a mid length journey. I think I remember from a different video (and this is just of the top of my head, I could be mistaken) that the optimum distance for high speed rail is about 500-700km, much more than that and air travel becomes faster and cheaper. Well from the centre of the UK going via the Channel Tunnel that puts Paris, Brussels and maybe Amsterdam in range but going beyond northern France and the Low Countries tips the balance towards air travel.
It seems to me that high speed rail is great for within the UK but air travel is better for going to Continental Europe with the pretty much sole exception of the London-Paris route.
It doesn't help that Eurostar has no competition.
@@bluemountain4181 I've been hearing numbers along those lines several times in recent years, but I disagree, outside of C19, I regularly used train rides of 10-12 hours to get to and from my vacation, and I wouldn't even think of exchanging the train for a plane. It's not worth it IMO. Especially as that still leaves a train ride on at least one, more likely both ends of the flight. It's got even worse since 9/11 with the security theatre. Even before Schengen, the border nonsense was almost trivial on the train, and since Schengen, it is completely nonexistent. Planes are for if you absolutely cannot go by train.
getting there, hopefully. minimum ticket prices, tax increases and levies, growth constraints and the fossil nature of aircraft propulsion (for now and a number of years to come) will definitely start to push some people back to rail. "flight shame" isn't quite catching on but climate awareness is pushing policy in a good direction. the other big market now seems to be flixbuses and the like. granted, they're cheap, but I imagine too basic for a LOT of people.
as much as private rail operators are (for a variety of reasons) a generally bad idea in my opinion, there's still a frustrating lack of competition in the high speed rail market and the private sector hasn't quite caught on to true HSR yet. mostly seems to be national operators and various spin-offs thereof. the channel tunnel link is sorely lacking options....eurostar is consistently too expensive, doesn't offer enough connections and the rolling stock isn't great.
My Mother was instrumental in getting the channel tunnel rail link moved from its original planned route. It was going to go through our house in Bexley!
Given the petty squabbling over lines and services at home, it's nothing short of amazing that us Great Britons managed to build any railways at all in far-flung parts of the Empire!
It's because building in far flung parts of the Empire gave us the opportunity not to have to bother with any petty local squabbling !
@@nonsuch9301 40,000 miles of track in India shows you aren't wrong. Mind you, they are electrifying more of that track per year than we ever would. Even taking into account the difference in size of our countries.
This station is really useful for getting from Stratford where I live to King's Cross, which is a really nice place to hang out. Shame the fares on the highspeed to St Pancras are a little exorbitant :/
I also remember coming back from Newcastle during the tube strikes and this being one of the few still open rail services to get me home. God bless the Stratford to St. Pancras line.
Well before the full HS1 was finished, the redundant link from the first half still connects with the Kent Coast Main Line, I could walk along Herne Hill platform 2 faster than the Eurostar Three Capitols Express stock some days. One of the plans was to divert there via Loughborough Junction to a tunnel (before Elephant & Castle) to connect to St Pancras. This seemed ludicrous as the turn to that line at Herne Hill crossed the main line with a speed limit of 20 mph!!!
In the New York area,there are three stations that would be in that 7 to 10 minute connections route! They are,respectively; 125th Street[Metro North,and sometimes Amtrak],Woodside[Long Island Railroad,and NYCTA,number 7 subway line],and last,but not least,Newark,New Jersey[Amtrak,New Jersey Transit,(buses,and Newark Subway)],and these are fairly busy stations,even if there is no International traffic to be had! As to airport traffic,Newark Airport,has a connection on the Corridor,and JFK,has the AirTrain out of Jamaica Station,with through connections,to Penn Station,and points elsewhere! Stratford has that type of potential,but the politicians and bankers,don't have the guts to see things through to a reachable goal!! Que Sera,and then the Karma!! Thanks,Jago for an interesting tale,of forlorn hopes,and dashed dreams,wouldst that some people would give a chance,that others could make things grow!! One can dream,and pray,so time will tell!! Thanks again for your attention ☺️!
125th street briefly had international trains passing by (en route from Toronto and Montréal) while Penn Station was under construction, but as with Stratford, those trains did not stop. Passengers headed to Harlem could (and still can) easily just transfer to a regional trains at Yonkers, so it wasn't worth stopping.
Simply love this channel with no disruptive background music louder than the speech or even ads in between. This nonexisting elements are crucial to help the audience better understanding what is the video 's tale about. Would spend hours watching every video explaination. Congratulations for the extraordinary work contributing to Britain's history knowledge for future generations.
I worked for SNCF's regional office in Manchester (we also represented other European rail services)
It really was 3 things that killed off the regional Eurostar idea. 1/ the absence of being in Schengen scheme and need for security screening/check in at regional stations not really designed for these.
2/ the existing capacity on the lines. Spare capacity wasn't around and remember this was before the big line upgrades on the Euston InterCity.
3/ the real death nail was the creation of direct sell airlines [I refuse to say low cost because they aren't really as low cost as they make out] suddenly it became easier to phone or click and book a seat on a flight from a regional airport and be sat in bar somewhere within 3-4 hours (or less) from leaving home.
The regional class 373 TGV-TMST's did find service running from London to York and on services from Brussels/Lille to The French Alpes and Mediterranean coast.
The really annoying thing with Strafford International is the refusal to integrate the Station into the London travel network...
You cannot use a travel card to travel between St Pancras and Stratford International on the Javelin trains.
You can definitely use oyster or contactless between St Pancras and Stratford International on the Javelins, so I’m not sure quite what you mean by the station not being integrating into the London travel network.
@@SDCentralTSV St Pancras high-speed platforms are outside the normal Travelcard zones, so you still have to pay a premium fare to go to Stratford Int, even if you have a Travelcard season.
@@SDCentralTSV not included in your travel card
Oh right I see what you guys mean. Actually, thinking about it I also remember someone saying that the daily cap is ignored on this stretch - I think it was Geoff Marshall.
I went to the Olympic Stadium in 2017 from my home town in Herts with my mother. We made the mistake of buying a ticket to Stratford rather than zone 1. I think it both cost more and took longer as there are fewer trains than on the tube. It's not worth it for 7 minutes in a more comfy seat!
Certainly is quite the white elephant, would have not been too bad had they pushed through with the HS2-HS1 link to connect Old Oak Common with Stratford International and bypassing both Euston & St Pancras International. Other ideas include a NLL stop at High Meads Loop next to the DLR stop before running to Chingford via a reinstated Hall Farm Curve, with the elevated DLR stop at Stratford being rebuilt so its not only alongside the Central line and other platforms but also links up with Stratford International DLR to create a loop (saving a 15-20+ min or so walk) with scope for an additional DLR stop at Montfichet Road by International Way for the local community.
I have called Stratford International station, Stratford Highspeed station, due to the fact Eurostar do not stop there. Also I have find some good deals on Eurostar trains in the past, when I have travelled on the Eurostar. It just depends on the time of year you travel, and how many people want to use it.
I quite agree. "Stratford Highspeed" would be a far better name for it if they are not going to run international services from there. Politics...!
You're not wrong in that, from time to time, a good little bargain can be found on the service. The sad fact of the matter is though that it is by-and-large quicker and infinitely cheaper to fly >90% of the time.
Being a fan of 'Choo-Choos' just as I am of 'weeeeeeeoooooooooooows' I've looked at both for a given date happy to do the extra travelling upto London from Brighton ( passing Gatwick along the way) if the prices and journey time can come close. I go so far as to ignore the additional time & money costs in getting to St Pancras but I could count on 1 hand how many times the cost has come even close. And when I talk about flying i'm not comparing the Orange Skybusses of Sleazyjet ( NOT that there's anything wrong with them imho) or Ryanair ( Ghastly, will never set foot on one of their planes). I'm talking flying Club Europe ( BA's short haul/ European Business Class) to Paris, Bruges or Amsterdam and the words "British Airways" & "Cheap" should never the two meet! Add into that I can sit in a lounge quaffing bubbles or whiskey till my hearts content if the mood takes me/ time allows and get a proper-ish meal served onboard ( followed by more champagne and invariably a gin or 4) for less money than a Standard Class rtn on Eurostar then it's a competition that is over before it's begun.
I have used the Eurostar a half dozen times over the years but more out of forcing myself to do it to experience it myself / share the experience with eg visiting friends but even their business product is, imo, woefully underwhelming for what you're paying - and it's not like I have some mad belief that BA's SH business product is the epitome of luxury and the final word in service standards.
I think the tree hugging lobby would have a lot more success in getting us out of planes and onto trains if they could make the things more reliable, better interconnected and most importantly decidely cheaper! That's trains across Europe btw not just in Blighty. With the exception of the Swiss and certain parts of the Nordic countries networks most services ( Nationalised or Private) are shadows of what they were a few decades ago. People will use the service that gets them there with the least amount of hassle and most importantly is, not necessarily always cheapest but, the most value for money to them personally. Until then then only archaic and dictatorial legislation where Governments remove the individuals right to choose will affect numbers and more likely will have the reverse consequence of more people taking long distance/ international journeys in their private vehicles rather than take rail as they've been banned from flying under X distance.
Jesus. That ^^^ went on longer and got deeper than intended but hey i've typed it all so I may well hit send eh 🤣
@@C2K777 As a member of railway staff I get discounted fares on Eurostar. It's not all that unusual to find that flights are cheaper than the staff discounted fares on Eurostar...
From the original concept to today security concerns have only increased plus of course on border controls (after Brexit) those are more complex. Maintaining that security element - the Channel Tunnel being an obvious terrorist headline target - would have been difficult for regional international services. Cheap flights have been an element but often cheap flights do not put you where you want to be, whereas train services generally do. For example whats the taxi fare from Orly to Central Paris these days? Probably more than the airfare to Orly.
This is one of the reasons I used to travel from Germany to London using the Eurostar (and will hopefully do so again in the future). It takes a minimum of one hour to get to an airport from where I live (and that's Frankfurt - if you've ever been there, you know why I try to avoid that airport like the plague), and considering where London's airports are, it would take me nearly as long to get from any of them to anywhere in the city centre I'd actually want to go.
Also, if the German site I use for taxi calculations is to be believed, Orly to the centre of Paris is around 28 Euros. That sounds kind of low to me, but I've never actually flown to Paris (from where I live, I really have no reason to do that), so I can't tell if that's realistic.
I am wondering about the security aspect. The Swiss Gotthard base tunnel is longer, but there are no security checks for trains running through it, so I'm not convinced that the Channel Tunnel actually needs them that badly.
@@dda40x unfortunately the UK (and France) have had a history of terrorist incidents whereas Switzerland has been more fortunate. An interesting point though and in the UK the Severn tunnel has no special controls
@@truebrit3578 perhaps. But France did see their share of terrorist incidents, they have made the calculation that it's not worth it. Same with Spain, yes, they didn't blow up an AVE, but blowing up some regional trains killed more people. I would wager that most terrorist plots get foiled with proper detective work, not with some uninterested security agent scanning luggage.
@@barvdw agreed although the Channel Tunnel is known globally. While it is likely that any attack would not damage the tunnel itself its more the psychology of what an attack would do. Underwater, 50 km long any incident would have global headlines and would likely damage the passenger business for some time even if there were no or few casualties.
As an aside - Sid, the 'Cockney Sparrer' emblem was born out of the later British Rail pre privatisation regime, where many individual repair and maintenance depots adopted a personalsation of locomotives, diesel and electric units allocated to their depots. Scottish depots chose the emblem of a Scottish terrier, and there were many themes local to their areas chosen by others. Stratford's personalisation started with silver painted roof panelling on several locomotives, and had union jack flags on the side which started after the painters had tarted one up for hauling the Royal Train!
This changed to the Cockney sparrow motif not long before the depot finally closed in 1991, and were produced in tribute to the huge Stratford Works that once employed thousands in East London when it was a major piece of rail infrastructure. All is now lost under the Olympic Park and Westfield Shopping Centre complex, and not many probably know or care nowadays.
From what I was told at the time, the name of 'Sid' was a tribute to Sid Hills, one of the characters that abounded in the railway industry and was one of the remaining longer serving staff who started in steam days and finally retired as the works shunting operative when the works closed. Ho hum - history moves on. Great vids. Thanks👍
Here in Kent we have 2 non international stations - Ashford and Ebbsfleet International. So it's either a time consuming ride into London and back out or trying to catch a non existent ferry from Dover
Hmm, that partly explains this weird station, which always seems to have tumbleweeds blowing past its platforms whenever I've used it.
It is brilliant to be able to travel from Kent to Essex/Suffolk/Norfolk without having to undergo central London. However, why why why is the way from Strat Int to Stratford mainline such a secret?! Not a sign or an arrow or any other path-marking in sight😧 makes it very stressful when changing trains, to the uninitiated.
Changing between the main Stratford Station and the International station is a paint in the ****, as is trying to get to Kings Cross Internation from Essex. Either walk through Westfield Shopping centre, where there is a side entrance on the (I think)1st Floor, making sure you have a ticket, as the ticket halls are on the main station, or if you're loaded down with luggage take the DLR spur from the ground level platform to SI station;; you still have to cross the road to get to the main entrance.
I’d use Eurostar if it was cheaper. But it’s p*ss takingly expensive and I’m
Honestly surprised it’s lasted this long.
I preferred the "old" Waterloo International, not to mention Victoria International, for boat trains to France
Coming from the South East of Kent I've never much minded Stratford. A few years back (I'm not so sure about now) you could get a service from Stratford up to Ipswich which made travel from Kent to Suffolk very easy and without going though the center of London.
Even if it is inconvenient I would still rather travel by train than by plane to the UK.
My Sister and her girlfriend did travel all the way from Stuttgart Germany to Glasgow by train because her girlfriend held a talk about agrivoltaics at COP. Also it would be double standard if you would travel by plane to a climate conference.
As you didn't spell it out let me remind you that the 'Prime Minister' flew to COP26 on a private plane.
@@CandyMan2001 1100+ billionaires turn up at Davos in private planes to organize the rest of us so we won't be making the world a little warmer (allegedly)
@@CandyMan2001 Yep: I wonder what an F1 does to the gallon. However, I was told that one Jumbo crossing the 'pond' uses the equivalent of ALL the entourage of the F1 teams for a year. Can we confirm this or otherwise?
@@CandyMan2001 Thanks - I was a little sceptical.
I have plans this year to visit my brother in St Gallen, to do the whole journey on the train making stops in between and taking in some principle cities along the way, once you get out of Britain the cost too is much more affordable, I can travel from France to Munich and then onto St Gallen for about the same price it costs me from Dorset to Glasgow.
Recently I got tickets on the Eurostar for £100 Return tickets. £50 for each journey.
Pretty much the same as taking a bus. Only that in order to do it that way, you have to arrive at the train stations at crazy times.
As a teenager I visited the Stratford depot open day in 1983. There was a class 25 on its side that was recovered as part of a re-railing demonstration.
Managed to get a job on BR after college and ended up as a S&T engineer. The Stratford site was enormous and there was a S&T stores that was accessed off Carpenters Road. Seem to recall having to cross several railway lines to get to it. Might've even been a rail triangle to navigate if my memory serves me correctly. Now all long gone as part of the redevelopment. They call it progress apparently.
Was also fortunate to look around Finsbury Park depot before it was demolished - heavily vandalised and not a Deltic in sight.
Same can be said for a weekend up at March yard before the tracks were lifted. At the time a huge amount of stock awaiting scrapping was located there. My brief was to get a twin train horn for my mate's Ford Capri. Found one on a DMU and duly removed it. I think horns on trains ran at 100 PSI. The Ford Capri's compressor didn't and the resulting two tones were rather a let down.
Keep up the good work Jago.
I was at the same open day! My first (and only) time in the cab of a Class 20.
there was a very long foot tunnel into Stratford Depot. At Weekends the depot was deserted of staff. I climbed every cab
Modern train horns blast out at 160 dbs.
The sound of that train departing Stratford was something beautiful. What class are those trains?
There was a idea floating around that DB were planning to use Stratford International as their terminus for their ICE Services after one of their trains did go to St. Pancras International as DB were planning to use HS1 with their trains but again it was one of those things that never happened.
Yes. A DB train arrived. But then there was an argument that they had two power cars and not one and that made them technically incompatible. It all sounded to me like people being deliberately obstructive.
@@roderickmain9697 meanwhile HSTs idled next to them on the domestic lines adjacent, though ICE 2 & 3 would probably better fit the grade required,
That DB ICE set which was displayed at St Pancras was actually towed from the Tunnel. ICE units were not cleared to use the Tunnel. It was the same when SNCF's TGV Postal reached St Pancras.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 I remember it arriving at St Pancras under its own power. Still, it may well have been towed through the tunnel, which would rather confirm my point about people being deliberately obstructive.
@@roderickmain9697 It had to be towed from Calais (I think) as it wasn't certified to operate under its own power through the Tunnel. The latter has a number of its diesel locos which are used to tow trains etc. This video clip shows La Poste TGV being towed though Staratford Int on its visit to StPancras many years ago. ua-cam.com/video/V8UIyPYrMZw/v-deo.html
I've only just realised that Stratford International and Stratford (London) aren't the same station, although they're very close.
Then there's Stratford upon Avon, which isn't.
How do we explain that to people visiting the UK? Even Sid looks confused about it all.
The closest we came to 'Regional Eurostar' was when some Class 373s were leased for services on the ECML...always meant to find out why this was.
I travelled on a few, I think it was to increase capacity and cover overhauls of HST and 225 units. They could only use some platforms at KX and elsewhere. Not as fast as on HS mostly due to power (or lack of ) from the UK OHE.
Because they had spare trains, and a route that needed them.
They were leased by GNER who had high standards of service on the ECML. Top speed was limited to around 110 mph on the ECML.
How realistically feasible do you believe that a government actually concerned with climate change regarding transportation would go back and use Stratford International for HS1?
Funny you should ask. I just went into that a little more than ever intended in a comment responding to "A to Z by Local Bus" above. I could actually go right into it quite happily regarding the pros-cons, impacts ( positive, negative, and unintended), socio-economic and socio-political connotations. Personal choice V personal 'responsibility'. Government apathy and interference. God there's so much that goes into it even if you're just scratching the surface.
There is of course a maxim to bare in mind at all times: Governments tend to only think as far as the next election. Things that benefit society as a whole are rarely achieved in such brief periods of time. 😉
@@C2K777 This government seems to think as far as 5 minutes before the next crisis...
I’m not entirely sure the current government doesn’t spend that 5 minutes generating the next crisis rather than thinking about it
@@johnd6487 Well, surely to generate it they need to think about it? Or not? Hmmm... 🤔
As Jago said, its seven minutes from the terminus at St Pancras so what would it achieve ?
One aspect of the international service is available at SI - the superfast trains. The service from SI to StP is notable for being the fastest and most expensive in London.
A good video, as always, but I must take issue with your description of the pre-Eurostar version of St Pancras as "dismal and underused". When I lived in Leicester I used it quite frequently and I found it friendly and straightforward, in contrast to some of the other London termini - especially Euston. It also a had a cosy bar which was handy if you had to wait for your train back to the East Midlands.
And much easier to access from the Victoria and Met lines tube stations
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.. I loved the old St Pancras.. the noise from the revving engines, the thick diesel fumes, the post vans careering across the concourse towards the mail trains when you were waiting for the late train home, the grime.. it just screamed London! Of course the new sanitised version is okay..
I used to work in that bar
It was nice, but it was underused. I remember suggesting diverting Aylesbury trains to it when Marylebone was being proposed for closure. Since then it (and Kings Cross) have undergone a remarkable transformation.
The other good thing about the St Pancras renaissance is the saving of the main buildings, even though the High Victorian Gothic style divided opinion. A French visitor asked to comment said "C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la gare" (for original version, see the Charge of the Light Brigade).
The “javelin” service between st Pancras and Stratford was very useful during the Olympics though
I think it would make more sense to call the station Stratford Olympic, and revert to the International epithet should it ever get those services.
Though with the announcement of German Rail operator DB wanting to use the tunnel it may yet get a service.
Hello from Kansas 🇺🇸
Ah Stratford, dear Stratford. I am probably in a substantial minority of people who is now far less likely to go there out of choice now than before the gentrifica…I mean, ‘regeneration’ started. I remember the yards that stretched as far as the eyes could see, the old works buildings and the almost post apocalyptic appearance of the old low level station with its peripheral decoration of random portacabins and dingy old generic Victorian out buildings, any of which could have concealed a missing body for decades and none would be the wiser 🤣
I must admit of course, I do go there frequently but it is usually either because I am driving en route to Liverpool Street at weekends or through engineering works at Fen St, or as an interchange. I refuse to set foot into the retail killing zone that is Westfield and so when I have had occasion to use “International” as an easier way to get to St Pancras (or in the past when my old job occasionally took me to Broadstairs and Canterbury) I either use the DLR or walk a route around the building from Stratford ‘proper’ when I find, like you, the DLR is bloody shut on a Saturday morning en route to the Great Central Railway 🙄
Nice to see mention of Sid. It’s nice when on certain 37s in preservation and occasionally on the main line, you will see a little Sid on the side. It seems however that even that little piece of Stratford has now been given an aesthetic upgrade to a Pied Wagtail 🤣😂😅
(I dearly love Pied Wagtails BTW so that wasn’t a dig 😜)
Splendid stuff sir. Many thanks 👍🍀🍻
Thanks for the info Jago! Since moving from London to Kent this has become my new regular train line and I always though in pre-pandemic days the eurostar stopped at Stratford thus the name. Sounds like a massive mess-up that should have been corrected years ago.
We at Peterborough (east-coast mainline) were told that Peterborough was to be a Eurostar terminal Still awaiting further news
do you have an agreement with jeff to upload at the same time?
I'd like to think given the ever present climate catastrophe we're approaching, there'd be a much bigger market for international trains in the future. Maybe I'm just being optimistic.
As with anything, I think the main thing that will shape it will be cost. If air travel remains cheaper than Eurostar, it’ll probably continue to remain popular. You’d like to think more people would consider rail travel not just in terms of the Eurostar, but in general, but realistically if prices don’t go down, passenger figures probably won’t go up.
Politically difficult though. Trains have low running costs, but the up-front construction costs are horrific. The HS1 line costs six billion pounds, and took sixteen years to build. The HS2 line costs... we don't know, because it's still not done, ten years after the announcement. It takes years of planning and securing land ownership before the first track can be laid.
So why would any government want to throw all that money into a project that won't yield any benefits until everyone involved is long out of office? Or worse: If the pendulum of power has shifted the other way, the opposition might take credit for it. The same thing holds for private investment - not many company executives would think it a good investment to start building a project that won't return anything for at least a decade and likely longer. That may be good value for shareholders ten years from now, but it's not good value for shareholders right now.
Maybe if the UK disunites it’ll have international service?
Excellent Jago. What is really baffling is with the opening of the Elizabeth line Stratford could provide a simpler link to Heathrow, and the Great Western routes. If you stand on platform 11 at Stratford I think you can see into Stratford International but there is no direct link. Rubbish with Eliz coming soon.
The DLR provides a link between Stratford and Stratford International (and Stratford High Street!}.
@@johnm2012 Yes but this is a right faff, when a step free direct access to Elizabeth line is possible. Problem is Stratford itself needs a redesign to take into account its growing complexity.
At least the Eurostar (International) platforms got some use, they were used during the 2012 Olympics because of the high frequency shuttles between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras, the platform heights were artificially risen and the escalators saw some action for the only time since being built. I remember they International 'customs/passport" area was obvious when you got into the station box but not fitted out properly so it could easily be instated.
Bit of a mix up on dates there!!!.
Regional EuroStar (and indeed its sleeper companion NightStar) were abandoned in the late 1990s by the then Tory government desperate to off load the railways ftom government control before they were removed from power.
It was found that, not only were Euro/Nightstar a legislative nightmare to franchise due the the problems of non self contained UK operation but also near impossible to palm off onto friendly banks due to huge lead in times before any possibility of share holder return.
The regional EuroStar sets were mostly pushed off for domestic service in France/Belgium (out of sight out of mind) while the Nightstar Sleepers that had been completed at vast taxpayer cost were sold to VIA Rail Canada at an enormous loss. The 37s intended for non electric Night Star service were sold off, 6 initially to DRS (which being a government operator removed any embarrassment about tenders and the huge loss from their conversion) while the other six remained to drag the odd Eurostar about as required until they too were quietly transferred to DRS.....the 92s for electric NightStar were quietly stored away out of public sight.......
.......with the exception of three Regional Eurostars repatriated and operated by GNER Kings Cross-Leeds to release 91s for madification, it was all dead and buried by 1997.....
Wait! The Tories abandoning public transport?! Next you'll tell me they're a bunch of racist cretins...Oh wait..
Not so much the Tories not wanting it - remember that the Channel Tunnel was planned, approved and financed by them, after Labour had dropped the previous plans in the 1970s. More that Eurostar didn't think it could ever pay (and did their best to ensure it wouldn't). Connecting trains from elsewhere in Britain were run but were a dismal failure, and rather pointless. Easier to take a normal service and change in London.
@@iankemp1131 Do remember that, at the time, European Passenger Services (EPS) responsible for Eurostar Cross Border, Le Shuttle, Eurostar Regional and NightStar WERE THE GOVERNMENT!!
As was the operator responsible for "connecting" trains, namely British Rail Intercity Sector.
At the time in question it was, despite some opaque branding (which some fried no doubt recieved a fat cheque) all British Rail and directly controlled by the government...🤷♂️
Stratford International was used most during the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics as ticketholders for events at the main Olympics park were given free access to the high speed Javelin services to and from St Pancras. I used it myself to get back into town after one such event - much quicker and more roomy than the tube.
Speaking of southern English trains: In 1959 my family visited London. Dad was USAF stationed in France. We flew to London on a Comet(I was waiting for the wings to fall off). Did all the tourist things over 5 days. We then took the train to catch the ferry back to Le Havre where the car was parked. I was disappointed that the train was not pulled by a steam engine, the compartments did not have doors like all the movies showed, and the power was supplied by third rail like a subway not an overhead wire like a proper railroad. My fourteen year old self felt someone needs to show these folks how to build railroads. Note: in some areas movies translates as cinema.
Please! The wings were perfectly safe; if it was a Comet the prevailing mode of failure was for the cabin to burst open like a party balloon.
@@MattMcIrvin Thank you, that knowledge would have calmed me a little. At that time the only thing I had heard about Comet was that they fell out of the sky on a regular basis; never mind the problem had been solved year previously
@@delurkor Yeah, if yours had the oval windows, you were probably OK. If they were rectangular, on the other hand...
Another excellent video. Would be good if you would do one about the Corringham Light Railway in Essex.
International trains!!! I recall when they built overnight sleeper trains to be used on the Channel Tunnel from the north of England and Scotland only to find out that the current requirements to heat and service the carriages exceeded the overhead supply
And then Canada took those sleeper coaches and is now called the VIA Rail Canada Renaissance Fleet, mostly used on The Ocean route from Montreal, QC to Halifax, NS, though I think some Renaissance cars have been used on The Corridor (Windsor/Sarnia - London - Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal - Quebec City), the closest thing we have to true Intercity service in Canada, everything else are fancy excursions and Once in a lifetime trains
@@coastaku1954 I was in Thunder Bay, ON about 15 years ago and I saw, in a field with no tracks a bunch of the sleeper cars sitting there. Some didn't have wheels, others didn't have windows. I was back there about 5 years ago and they were gone.
@@lawrencelewis2592 Yes, I think about 30 cars were not used and were in fact stored in Thunder Bay. Maybe Bombardier was doing the conversions at their Thunder Bay Plant (Where they make the Bi-Level coaches for GO Transit) and VIA Rail cancelled the conversion of those 30 cars, I can't remember exactly but that would be the most likely of answers
THey was gonna put them in but I'm unsure if they actually did because it was when I was like 1 lol 😆 but yeah typical thing they spend god only knows how much it only to figure that the heaters over exceed the amps in the OLE and end up causing issues and things to blow lol 😆
@@coastaku1954 I wonder if they were scrapped. It makes a lot of sense, bring them to Canada, let them sit and then junk them.
I remember I was kinda excited to take a bus journey that linked up with a train to go through the Channel Tunnel years ago given how we're all used to flying. I personally loved it but it kinda made me feel like I was in an old episode of The Crystal Maze (just missing Richard O'Brien dedicating a harmonica solo to "Mumsy"). It's probably for the best that Stratford is not a starting/end point for tourists - one look around and they'd probably demand to get the flight home immediately.
Stratford was a pretty terrible place back in the ‘70s when I first knew it. Several burned out buildings, I think one of them had been a paint factory, the remains of which remained for years. Most of the traditional industry had gone. Most of the station platforms were disused, 12 which used to be an islane with 13 on the other side couldn’t ecen be reached as the subway had been bricked up beyond the stairs up to 10, now 10a, and 11. 1 and 2, now 16 and 17, on the low level had the little-used Diesel service from North Woolwich to Tottenham Hale which used to go via South Tottenham and Seven Sisters to Palace Gates until that line closed in 1963. The old subway to platforms 9 and above now reopened as the East subway was almost disused and was often blocked off and was full of rubbish and a few interesting things, such as some old blue and white glass platform signs which had been dumped down there. The unused bay platforms 4 and 7 were still there, without track. 4 was later used by the DLR for a few years until its new platforms 4a and 4b were built, but 7 was never used.
The Bow Back Rivers were in a terrible state, silted up, full of rubbish and the tow paths almost unwalkable, you could just about get through in the winter when some of the vegetation had died back. Then there were the derelt City Mill and Carpenter’s Road locks, now both restored to use.
Stratford International does serve foreign places. Did you not know that Kent is the most northern province of France? 😊
Et fier! 😂
If your trying to get a black cab going south of the river is like going to another country.
Longsight depot in Manchester, on the up side, used to have “Eurostar est ici” on the side. I’ve got a photo somewhere as I visited once for work.
I had always assumed that Stratford International had been built for the 2012 Olympics, so passengers from Paris or Brussels could get off nearer to where the action was. Thanks for putting the record straight. Numerous tube stations have been renamed, as many of your previous videos have shown, so why can't HS1 join in the fun and change the name of Stratford International?
Changing the name of an NR station is not so straightforward as it requires all the signalling, pathing & timetabling systems to be updated.
EG Northampton has had a plan to de-rename their station back to “Northampton Castle” for about 10yrs but hasn’t yet happened.
Same reason it’s easier to put a new platform 0 in than to renumber all the existing platforms.
@@SportyMabamba Then why was it so easy to downgrade Bicester from a Town to a Village?
@@nendwr money - the shopping centre wanted its own station
@@SportyMabamba The 'platform 0' problem can just as easily be solved by giving the new platform a really high number. For instance, in Nijmegen (The Netherlands), the new track built next to track 1 has been named 'track 35'.
Or do as the Belgians do and give new tracks on the platform 1 end a letter. Look at Leuven, with tracks A, B, C and D all alongside through track 1.
Great and enjoyable video.
Seems so odd not to Link HS1 and 2... I know its probably a complicated venture but seems short sighted!
Thus far there's not a great deal of demand, but adding it in later would not be hard
Walking from St Pancres to Euston isn't far or a quick tube/bus/taxi ride
@@Roblilley999 a direct service to Paris would also require a customs area in Birmingham. Which shouldn't be that difficult but it will depend on demand.
@@hairyairey
I mean, it wouldn't if the British government didn't have such a bone-headed stance on international rail travel. Which also killed off any plans for extending Eurostar services past London (with trainsets having been bought), night services past London and into Germany and southern France (again, the rolling stock had been bought) and direct connections from London into Germany (with fitting rolling stock already existing and the demand being there). And there really isn't any operational or security reason for requiring stationary airport-style security checks and fenced off platform areas.
@@mikeblatzheim2797 since the UK is not in Schengen then passport checks are needed. As for the international travel I think those decisions were made by the tunnel's owners. A substantial amount of capacity through the tunnel is used by the shuttle service.
I would suggest Stratford High Speed as a better name, if it wasn't for Stratford High Street two stops away.
Sadly it just isn't practical as a Eurostar stop. It's far too close to St. Pancras for it to be worthwhile
Stratford Westfield North ?
I think the sparrow is based on the "Cockley sparrow " which is a term given to a cheerful talkative kind of chap who strictly speaking should be born within the sound of Bow bells.
Or even "cockney sparrow ",flaming spellchecker !!
@Alfred Wedmore Ah,fond memories of visiting the cinema at Leicester Square in the sixties with my Mother and two sisters to see Mary Poppins.And indeed, what was that about, casting the Dick as a cockney. Incidentally in my original post my spellchecker decided to spell cockney as Cockley and I didn't spot it !!
“HS2 will provide a link to the North” 😭😭😭
I remember the service in the early Waterloo days - what an embarrassment! Being overtaken by 40 year old commuter trains as it wobbled on the old rails on the run up to London. Problem was it used 3rd rail power that could only deliver 4 MW of power and the power to weight ratio was awful. On French side (and in the tunnel) the overhead 25 kV pantograph system could deliver 16 MW allowing full 300 km/hr cruising speed.
HS1 still has Third Rail sections... it's kind of sad really
On the other hand I dont think you want to do 150mph round that routing into Waterloo.
Ahh yes. As you've dropped yourself in it 1st i'll also admit being old enough to remember when it was at Waterloo. About the only upside I can recall is that you at least got a pretty good view of the trains on the approach if your own local/ commuter service arrived on the 'right' side of the station ( that of course ironically being the left hand side when viewed as arriving into Waterloo)
@@coastaku1954 Now you are making that up. The E320, for example doesn't have the equipment to run 750V DC.
@@nicktecky55 The Javelin runs on Third Rail sections though, right? Tom Scott did a piece at a manual level crossing on that line
The Eurostar/International Departures lounge at Stratford was an interesting sight; it was equipped with French Juxtaposed passport booths (through the grey painted doors, you might still be able to see them), and a UK Border Force area on the arrivals side. It's identical in internal layout to Ebbsfleet International, if you wondered how it would have worked.
The departures hall and associated back of house areas were used by Bouygues during the construction of the very tall, odd building opposite as construction offices.
Don't forget that there IS a train from Stratford to Harwich International for the ferry wot leaves Stratford proper station (not the high speed malarky) at 06.43 on a weekday. So I reckon that the railway companies should just swop around the signs. Stratford International where you get the trains to Harwich International (and Billericay and Ingatestone etc) and just plain Stratford when you wanna go High Speed to....Kent. And as for that sparrow logo surely it had something to do with a "Cockney Sparrow" something that our modern children would need to go on google to learn about (sadly).
If only they could open it to continental services. Maybe they could have an overnight service to the south of France and Barcelona. They could call them "Nightstars"...oh, hang on a minute....
I had the misfortune of living next the the former Freight Yards when the Channel Tunnel Rail Link was started. The construction work caused clouds of dust, 24hr noise, constant HGV traffic and then we were all "decanted" from our estate under Compulsory Purchase for the Olympic Park construction around 2006. Indeed a White Elephant, the Mayor of Newham was said to be seething when it was announced no CTRL trains would be stopping at Stratford! At least they got to cover acres of open land around Stratford, Hackney Wick and Leyton with endless boxlike "apartments" at exorbitant prices /rent. LegacySchmegacy..
Reminds me of how at least 75% of American airports are called "international", even some suburban or rural airstrips without even commercial airline service, let alone international flights. (From what I've heard, the only criteria is having a customs station.)
A Glasgow to Paris service could work if you had Glasgow to London passengers on the train who were replaced with London to Paris passengers when it gets to London.
Glasgow is not as big a place as London, there's about 3 million people within the catchment area of Glasgow Central for international services, vs about 24 million within the catchment area of St Pancras. Such a service would need to run about once every two hours, otherwise Glaswegians would take the train to Kings Cross or Euston and change there, like they do at the moment.
The problem with this idea is that it doesn't work well with border control. You can't ask Glaswegians to show their passport to French border police to get to London, and you can't have the possibility of them buying split tickets for the Glasgow-London and London-Paris legs of the journey to avoid the border controls.
Shall we wait for IndyRef2 for scotland
@@highpath4776 That would complicate things even more, because then you would need both English and French border police at Glasgow; and both Scottish and English border police at Paris.
You can split the train in two parts. One half is for Glasgow-Paris and gets checked in Glasgow. Another half is for Glasgow-London (with no checks), empties and gets security-swept in London, then is filled with fresh London-Paris passengers. That's the solution that's currently in place for Amsterdam-Brussels-London trains.
Major downside, of course, is the long standstill in London required for swapping 450 passengers with 450 new ones and doing a security sweep in between. The Amsterdam-London service currently stops in Brussels for 27 minutes, which is an insane time loss.
In my opinion, having an infrequent Glasgow-Paris without carrying London passengers would be the best implementation for a direct Glasgow-Paris train. One early-morning departure (with train+personnel that would otherwise start their shift in London), and perhaps another one in the early afternoon (with train+personnel that would otherwise be in a siding between commuter peaks).
@@katbryce Scottish and English border control are the same thing
@@benanders1969 For now it is, but if Indyref2 goes the way Sturgeon wants it to go, then it wouldn’t be.
Yeah it’s disappointing in regards to the station, I remember being in school and being so geared up for the new station and the whole “back the bid” london 2012 hype. Saw all those made up pics with eurostars down there in the station, just such a shame they dont make use of those long ass platforms lol
Stratford International could have been truly international but for Brexit. The TransMarche Metro idea would have meant stopping trains from Calais to St. Pancras for people who were commuting to Canary Wharf from homes in the Calais area, where property prices are nowhere as insane as London and the South East. From SI it's a simple change to get to Canary Wharf, although it is a double change for the fastest route ( DLR to Jubilee Line at Stratford ).
Brexit or Syrian Refugees ? (or Both)
It was open for 7 years before the referendum vote. If it was going to happen it would have happened.
@@highpath4776 Second led to the first you could say
Something not mentioned in this video is that Stratford International was in fact used for international departures and arrivals during the Olympic Games in 2012, but only for the use of officials and competitors. (If I remember correctly).
@@ajs41 We understood your point the first time. You don't need to keep repeating yourself!
It would be great if they have a low cost eurostar. In France, we have the Ouigo, which is a low cost version of the TGV train who goes slower, the trains are far in Paris but it can go from 5€.
The low cost eurostar would go from Stratford International to … maybe Stade de France-Saint Denis (a train station quite close to Gare du Nord, the parisian stop. Stade de France-Saint Denis is next to Saint Denis Pleyel, a future station who will be ready for Paris Olympic Games and will be the new main station for the new subways lines (line 14 to 17). Another terminus possible to that would be Disneyland (Marne-la-Vallee). I know there is eurostars stopping there.
It could be great if they do several stops ( like one english close to the channel, Calais, Lille, maybe Beauvais?) , the travel time would be 3:30-4 hours, and the price wouldn’t exceed 80€.
Though it may not be used for international services, the station is very useful for connecting through to Kent, East Anglia and North London which would otherwise involve travelling through Central London via the tube to Victoria, Charing Cross or Liverpool Street.
Certainly not the most attractive station (far too much concrete) but very convenient (the shopping centre next door is a good place to spend any spare time between connections too).
Would be advised to wear a bullet proof vest though... lots of stabbings around that shopping centre
@@dodgydruid Horrible place
The UK and EU could really easily make it possible to link the UK to the big SNCF, Trenitalia, and ICE networks, and to make it affordable and even preferable to air travel, plus the UK could learn so much from DB and the internal German ICE services. These are all political choices. And I think one side is getting more and more open to making them, but the other....
We need to encourage the replacement of short haul flights by rail travel
Nice architecture .
I walked through the concourse on my way to the DLR station and given the acres of glass frontage, I was surprised just how small is the entrance to the platforms. The station also seems to be at the back of beyond and I wonder just how well it is used?
I really think there’s no good reason why HS2 can’t be connected with HS1 at Stratford International. It might be my train-loving rose-tinted glasses talking here, but I reckon there’s more of a market for Eurostar Regional services than the big-wigs believed at the time, I mean there must be a reason that Eurostar connects so many different locations in Europe but only one in the UK.
I live in Stratford and was deeply disappointed that international services never left from this station. That said, the seven minute hop to St Pancras is really smooth and easy, so it ended up not a big deal.
This is like those small American airports. Portland International Jetport in Maine is purely domestic (I know as it was my local for a few years) - unless Canada counts as International (couple flights from Toronto etc)
I don't think it's fair to say that international trains have never really caught on in this country. Eurostar do hold most of the market share of traffic between London and Paris, and the Amsterdam service has certainly proved to be popular, to the extent that before the pandemic they had been ultimately planning to increase it to five trains a day.
As for flying being quicker and cheaper, that doesn't take into account the time and cost of getting to and from the airports. The Eurostar takes about 2 hours to Brussels and about 2 and a half to Paris (the fastest services even being about 15 minutes quicker), and it takes you directly into the heart of the city, plus it is possible to get it for about £30 each way if you book far enough ahead and there are no extra costs like baggage fees or airport transfers.
I'm sure one of these days there will be a case for connecting HS1 and HS2. With London to Birmingham projected to take around 45 minutes, that would give a hypothetical Birmingham to Paris journey time of around 3 hours, which is about how long London to Paris took before HS1 and still an hour less than what it takes to Amsterdam, so would certainly be within the times that passengers seem fine to spend now
What London should do is make a new Crossrail North and South, having a Eurostar Compliant tunnel running right under the city from HS1 to HS2
@@coastaku1954 The argument against connecting the two lines that it would impact negatively on Camden seems somewhat undermined (almost literally) by the fact that Crossrail 2 will necessitate building a tunnel there anyway!
@@Inkyminkyzizwoz I just don't see a point in having 2 high speed rail lines that ARENT connected directly. I know London has like a million termini but really? You guys could do so much better, and you showed that off with Crossrail. I'm from Canada, we only have one major station per city, except NYC, Chicago and Montreal have 2
@@coastaku1954 What are you talking about? A new north south tunnel through London connecting HS1 and HS2?? the two are both just north of central London right next to each other (like 1 tube station away)
@@jonathanma2741 Do you really think people want to de-train to continue on to see more of the country? It's inconvenient
For several years before the regional Eurostar services were formally abandoned, their timetable was published in the national railway timetable book with a footnote saying “to be introduced during the validity of this timetable”. The trains were ready, but it never happened. It seemed such a waste. I wonder if any other services appeared in the timetable book but never ran.
I also agree. Why is Stratford International station called “International” as Southeastern highspeed Class 395 Javelin trains stop and serves the station and Eurostar trains passes right through without even stopping there.
Whilst Stratford (Regional) station is becoming more and more busier and with Elizabeth Line to become fully operational later this year. Making Stratford station even more overcrowded and Stratford International station less overcrowded and more peaceful and spacious.
Because the plan was for some Eurostar services to stop there. But for that to happen UK Border facilities would be needed and the govt is not prepared to pay the bill.
@@alexmcwhirter6611 Absolutely.
I love train travel and it would always be my first choice of long distance transport within Europe but... It is just not affordable.
Austria does an annual unlimited public transport ticket called Klimaticket. They do regional versions, as well as a more expensive national version. I would love to one day see an agreement across Europe for a continental Klimaticket.
Funny how Eurostar has had to reduce capacity because of brexit. I’m not sure the demand is much lower but capacity is hampered by passport processing times.
I learned about rail passport control when I rode Amtrak from Seattle to Vancouver, BC. The train ran like a completely normal train through Washington state until it crossed into Canada and made no more stops until it pulled into a platform completely exposed to the weather and walled in by tall fences.
At the very doorway of the station building stands the Canadian customs guard to check each passenger individually. Going the other way, you can check-in first before departure and then wait for your train, but entering from the U.S. makes you feel like a refugee. Border controls are why I'm doubtful about plans to connect Chicago with Toronto and southern Ontario by rail.
Pre Covid I used the Marseille service from St Pancras. As a northerner there wasn’t a service early enough in the morning to get me there so I had to travel down the night before and stay overnight. A regional Eurostar service would saved me a day and expense. Such a shame it never happened.
*announcement chime* We will shortly be arriving at Stratford I(n't)ernational
Thank you for the pied wag-tail at 8.04. They thrive in Westfield and roundabout.
Are they still making hs2? I was told its not being made in the North, which is a bit rubbish considering it can take like half the time to go by car, as all our infastructure was built in either the 1800s or 1960s and 70s for steel workers.. You can probably guess the city from that.