Vertical Antenna for Parks on the Air
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- In this video I use my new vertical antenna setup to activate Lost Dutchman State Park in Arizona for Parks on the Air. I use an MFJ-1979 Telescopic Whip and a tripod my friend Tony K7AJF made for me. I've never owned a vertical antenna. This is my first time setting one up. I was a little nervous I would do something wrong but it was super simple and worked like a champ!
Park K-1061 on 26 Aug 2022 - 14 MHz SSB and 14 Mhz CW
MFJ-1979 Telescopic Whip: www.dxengineer...
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#HamRadio #POTA #CW #SSB #MFJ #Antenna
I don't see anyone else mentioning this, and I apologize if this is in one of your newer videos. A quarter-wave vertical antenna has an impedance of ~37Ω, so that gives a theoretical SWR of 1.3ish, for an ideal antenna on an ideal flat ground. If you add the 45° downward-sloping radials, you can get it to 50Ω. But if your radials are flat, anything below that 1.4:1 SWR is probably just coupling into resistance on the ground side of things. Which makes a better match for your transmitter, but the "extra" power you're sending is just warming up the dirt.
There's a few pages on the web that cover the theory of this, if you want to really get into the math/physics of it. (Which most people don't, and I can't blame them, really.)
Josh, I thank you so much for offering up this information. I don't think anybody has mentioned these ideas yet. I think one person mentioned that if I raised the antenna up a bit the SWR would get better. Thinking about that and what you said, it seems it would as the radials would then be downward sloping. . . . and of course I chuckled at your comment about people not wanting to get into the physics.
So what are your thoughts if I took a card table and set the antenna on that and then ran the radials off at an angle? It would be up another 3 feet I suppose. Higher would even be better I bet.
Regardless, thanks again for the explanation.
I got about 150 KHz 2:1 VSWR BW with 1-2 radials in my POTA activations from my MFJ-1979. Today I laid down two 46"x84" aluminum screens and clipped them together with alligator clamps to my 12" round spite with integrated BNC connector (eBay). That gave me >350 KHz BW and the lowest VSWR went from 1.5:1 to 1.3:1. My Rig Expert read ~38 ohms impedance. It felt like my 5 watts QRP had a 10dB amplifier. This setup took 2 minutes to deploy or pack up. I have another 24" x 84" aluminum screen I haven't used yet, I will add it next time to the whole thing to see if I have reached diminishing returns. The screen simply lays on the ground, flattened by a couple of small rocks or sticks or whatever I have, including several fiberglass fence stakes that I use to elevate counterpoises, from time to time. Cheers, Davey - KU9L
Very interesting. If you have time could you email some pictures the next time you set that up?
@@RedSummitRF one screen rolled up is pretty.light, if I can get a cardboard roll to form it on and then bungy it, then it is light & compact enough for the backpack. I will take more photos, I need 4 more activations for my Repeat Offender Activator, lol.
Charlie, Thanks for all the work you do on these videos. COOL -Thanks for mentioning Tony K7AJF and Judy K7JLF for making the antenna stands!! - They make a Wonderful Antenna's and stands!!
Thanks my friend. They actually didn't want me to mention their names but I have to give credit where credit is due. Right?
@@RedSummitRF RIGHT!!
Thank you for taking the time to make this video the way you did. So many ham’s gloss over their antenna sett up. Seeing it done from start to finish was awesome.
Thank you Tim. I appreciate the feedback. I am trying to do this more often, although I too, at times, skip over stuff. But I have heard this from others too and I'm trying to respond to the feedback. Thanks for taking the time to drop a note.
Thank you for another great video. You helped us all by keeping in the oopsies rather than publishing only the perfect QSOs. It takes a great man to be humble.
Glad it was helpful! I used to be a little hesitant keeping the errors in, but I've learned that we all do them and it's normal. Thanks for the compliment.
GM OM! I sure enjoyed the video! It's too bad you didn't have a coffee because we'd be sharing a coffee together. :)
I often deploy either a Wolf River Coils vertical (long whip, short coil) or the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 for POTA activations. With my WRC setup, I run 20m with about 1.5 sections (bottom two) retracted and the wiper at the top of the coil. I could just pull the coil from the tripod and run the whip alone... the coil is bypassed.
I run 18 wires for the ground field. I bought a spool of 18ga lamp cord, cut 9 segments about 16ft long, and then ran 6 of those into one lead. This made three bundles of six wires to a single connection (one for each leg of the tripod). I put a power pole on the single lead and then fabricated another single lead with a ring connector on one end and a power pole on the other. These are affixed to the legs of the tripod using an extra nut (so there are two nuts on each leg). So there is no fiddling with wing (or other nuts) in the field.
To deploy the tripod, I have only to screw the legs into the head (which has a 3/8x24 long nut in it for the whip and coax). I throw out the ground field wires, separate them, and then connect the power poles to finish the ground field. The whip and coil screws to the top of the tripod and I use a right-angle coaxial adapter on the bottom of the tripod head.
Deployment and initial tuning takes about five-ten minutes. VSWR here in Nevada generally runs less than 1.5:1. Once you've run this system a few times, it is very simple to deploy and adjust for the desired band.
The disadvantage of the WRC system (and similar systems) is that it is not band agile. A couple of minutes are required to change bands.
I have also learned to take a few steps away from the whip when checking VSWR. Body capacitance can affect the reading. I verified this by touching the antenna while operating the analyzer.
On reading another commentor's remarks, I now wonder if a CMC at the feed point might be a good idea. It sounds like there is some RF on the coax in his case. I will test this.
One last remark: I think a low resonant point means the antenna is too long. You might try some testing in the backyard or a nearby park.
The tripod looks very good. I like that it is all one unit instead of in pieces.
73 de AG7TX
Hi David - this is some great content. I appreciate your thoughtful reply with useful suggestions. It sounds like you have things dialed in well with your setup! Thanks for visiting the channel.
Charlie, I use the same whip with home made base and (8) 16 foot radials. I needed to make it taller so I added a piece of copper wire 24” in length to the top and that did the trick.
oh that's interesting! How did you attach it to the top?
Great job ! Looked like a good set up!
Thanks 👍 it sure worked well on this activation. We'll see as I continue using it.
Hey Charlie, I also have been using this whip in a similar set up for 20 & 17. Very simple and easy to tune. I like the home brew tripod 👍🏻
My son actually ordered this MFJ whip yesterday to use during POTA activations in Connecticut. Enjoyed watching.
73!
Thank you Reed. Sounds like this is a great option for POTA. I've received similar comments from others. Thanks for watching.
Thanks Charlie for a great video.
My pleasure!
Thanks for sharing your video and information. Especially remembering to bring bug spray or alternative ! Love your tripod, that you staked it in as well. ( useful in windy conditions)
Appreciate showing the CW Exchange at top of the screen. Reluctantly admitting I don’t do CW.
73 Steve AA4SH Tennessee
Hi Steve - thanks for leaving comments. This was a fun video to make. Regarding CW it certainly isn't the only mode. It's about enjoying ham radio in your own way! Thanks.
Great video Charlie! The MFJ 1979 has been A superb remote antenna for me. Looks like everything worked really well here. Great video!
Thank you Larry. What a great thing you did putting me in touch with Richard. Thank you again for that!
You’re a really good cw op Charlie!
Well thanks AJ. Few compliments are better than that one. Truly appreciated.
Another great one Red. I might need to talk to Tony & Judy. I'm interested in his hitch mount too. 73
Oh yeah, that hitch mount looks good. I need to get a hitch for the truck before I can go down that road. I was surprised when I bought the xTerra that it didn't come with one.
A very happy September to Charlie, Sandy & all the Subscribers & Followers of this great YT Channel. Have a nice Sunday everyone. 73 de YFUG from Southwest Germany 💯👍🙋♂
Same to you! Thanks again for coming back to the channel.
@@RedSummitRF You very welcome 💯👍🙋♂
The MFJ-1979 whips are awesome. I put mine on a 8' painters pole and use the counterpoise as guides to keep it steady. Love Lost Dutchman Park as well.
That is an interesting idea Malen. And I assume you use the painter stick as a walking pole too?
Hi Charlie, when deploying my portable 1/4 wave vertical, it likes coax between 15’-25’, any less & swr goes up, and greater lengths have no effect. I carry an 18’ length and that seems to be the sweet spot. My similar setup also tunes 2M, 10M, & 17M. You should try it, just adjust the radials & whip. And THX for QSL card & swag!
Javi, this is really good info. I did actually have a 25' run of coax so I lucked into that one. Tuning up another frequency had crossed my mind. I'll have to try sometime. Thanks buddy!
Great video! That antenna and tripod combo looks pretty slick
Thanks Brian. It makes for a pretty simple setup since there is no mast. I agree, it's quite a nice setup.
Glad to finally get you in the log! I was using the WRC 213” whip on a mag mount from the park in DC. I picked it up at Hamvention and have grown to like more and more every time I use it. I love that tripod setup BTW. 73, N2MAK
Hi Mike - thanks for the P2P. That was fun. Interesting to know what you were using on your end. Cool!
Excellent content.putting my bug spray in my bag now. i was losing it just watching. 73
haha hi Mark. Yeah, I should have had my bug spray dang it! Thanks.
I use much of the same setup for most of my portable work. For 20 I usually extend it fully and use 8 5m radials. Depending on conditions I tend to get an SWR anywhere from 1.1 to 1.5. Very easy to deploy and very efficent. It also tunes every band from 20 to 6 perfectly by shortening it.
Wow Morten - it tunes every band to 6m? That is awesome. Gotta give that a try. Agreed that it is an easy deployment. BTW your UA-cam channels is cool! I like it. GL
@@RedSummitRF Thanks for the kind words Charlie. I was hoping to be able to tune it for 2m as well, but that’s unfortunately not possible.
Great activation red. I need to get the by1 to the park. I think I’d enjoy it more.
You should! I have two of them. This one you see in the video is dedicated to POTA. It's nice to have a better quality paddle when feasible. 73
I have worked two stations in Oregon from here in the UK, on 6 watts SSB using a similar setup. It has to be said, however, that the other stations were using beam antennas.
Hi Sarah - that is a fantastic report. Other stations with a beam or not, you have to get your signal out. Thanks for sharing this. Validation that it's a good option for an antenna!
Those are good tripods, I have that same one 👍
Hi Donald - very good. I totally agree. Very good tripods. Thanks for watching.
That tripod looks like a 1/4 scale version of one that Outbacker used to make that I've been using with a Shark Hamsticks for POTA where there isn't enough room for my EFHW. I've never needed counterpoises with it, and I've hit Spain to AZ from the east coast. SWR is never above 1.5:1 across the bands that I have sticks for.
Dang Doug, I've not heard of the Outbacker. I'll have to do an internet search and read up on it. No counterpoises sounds appealing!
@@RedSummitRF I believe they've been out of business for a while. I could never get their antenna to resonate, either on their tripod (with or without counterpoise) or a 3x magmount. But as I mentioned, the tripod works perfectly with hamsticks.
@@dougdaniels Very cool! Thanks
Sure is nice to have the BY-1 in the field. The lightweight compact paddles are great for packing, but if you can drive to a picnic table it’s much easier to work CW without key moving all over the place.
Right on, Matt. Its a pleasant upgrade and as you said, great if you are driving to a picnic table.
Nice work Charlie! I just saw another ham review & tune that MFJ-1979 Telescoping Whip from 20m up to 6m. I've been using verticals since I started: first with the Chameleon MPAS 2.0 and then to multiple ham sticks. I do love those ham sticks when I activate from the back of my vehicle. But I use the Chameleon when I can't be near my car. I this set up and tempted to do that as my next antenna, after I start using a mast & my KM4ACK EFHW for a little to see how that works when not near my car. I like having the different options for different situations. 73 de Jeff K3JRZ
Hi Jeff. Well you would definitely know more about all this than I, since, as I mentioned, I'm a wire dipole guy up to now. Definitely more options is better. I am actually wanting to try some stuff mounted to the car, like the trailer hitch mount... but first I need a trailer hitch LOL
@@RedSummitRF LOL! I’m in the same situation!!! 73!
I am really impressed by how well the antenna system worked, and that little tripod is a beauty. I imagine the counterpoise wires played a part in the over-all success of the operation. I wonder what your thoughts are on getting the antenna resonant where you wanted it to be? You can speculate on possibilities - maybe height above ground or counterpoise adjustment, who knows? It comes down to how much time you want to spend fine tuning the set up. Congratulations and thank you for an interesting presentation.
A few people suggested, as you did, raising the height of the antenna above the ground. That sounds promising and will be my next test. Thanks for your comments and for you view of the video.
Hey Charlie,
Nice video, I really like the simplicity of your setup. That MFJ whip seemed pretty effective.
Love your rig, but again I am a Yeasu Fanboy lol...
That said, (and you may have already done this before. I would really like to see a little more on your setup and how you pack/transport your POTA gear.
Thanks again. 73
OK my friend. I can go over the packing and transport sometime soon. Thank you for the note.
I did two QSO parties, Kansas and someplace else that escapes me, on the same day, operating from inside an aircraft hangar at a General Aviation airport where my partner has part ownership of a Cessna. I was inside the hangar with my KX3, but out on the tarmac a couple of yards was my Wolf River Coils Silver Bullet, with a "Take it Away" tripod and I had 3 different telescoping whips, from 9 feet to 20 feet long. The radials I had to run down the tarmac along the front of the hangar, as I couldn't run anything where planes might run over it taxiing to or from the hangars. I had to weigh down the legs of the tripod with these photographers' sandbags I carry for just that purpose, with very visible retroreflective yellow stripes and filled with unused kitty litter (the cat had to try a few brands before he'd accept one, so I had a bunch of stuff he wouldn't use. Made great sandbag filler), and I adjusted it first by audio volume, then used the KX3's tuner. I'd forgotten my analyzer back on the bench at home.
I did pretty darned well, both on CW and SSB, though CW was gangbusters that day. Worked a number of stations, Kansas being the more prolific. That was right after I'd done my first stint taking CW Academy, so I felt pretty good about it. Unfortunately, I didn't stay on the horse during the lockdowns, and while I didn't lose my code proficiency, I lost my nerve, and will have to work through the key shyness all over again. I'm just not quite as good copying as I am sending, and it bugs the heck out of me. I've been told it's normal, every ham goes through it, but it bugs me nonetheless. But I'll get there!
I think if you can find a stud extension, say from an old Hustler, a foot, maybe 18" long, and use that to raise the bottom of that whip up a bit, it should help with getting that SWR down.
Hi Gwen - thank you for the suggestion about the stud extension. I was wondering what to do and you are the first to make a suggestion. It's worth a try. That's great that you were on air with your Morse code. I get it - copying Morse code can be frustrating. Keep at it! Thank you for the great note.
If the SWR is better at lower frequencies then you need to shorten the whip to operate at higher frequencies.
Thanks
I bought parts from Tony at a hamfest to upgrade my Buddipole.
His stuff is so reasonably priced and great quality. How the Buddipole working for you?
@@RedSummitRF Works great. I was using it on a hitch mounted mast from my camper. I liked the setup because it was self contained with no need to guy or toss up in nearby trees like wire antennas require. It's a little cumbersome to change bands, but performance is good.
Good morning ☀️ Charlie 73 from kb2uew
Thanks for the note Alvaro. Have a great day.
Use a dremel or snips to cut your radial's circular tabs in to u's, then you won't have to remove your wing nuts each time you add your radials. thx for the vid. Brent va7hum
Hi Brent. Fantastic tip. I ill absolutely do this. Thanks for watching and leaving a great comment.
Have contact info for the guy that makes the tripod?🤔
Hi Barney - Tony asked me not to put his contact info in the video because he doesn't want to mess with shipping. He makes is products and sells them exclusively at the hamfests in Arizona. If you are interested in getting one maybe I can work something out for you. Where do you live? Hit me up directly via email at nj7v@arrl.net
TU for the video, neat ! 73, DE VA2YZX
I'm pleased you enjoyed it. Thanks
How can we reach out to Tony to ask about a tripod? Email? Phone?
Hi David - Tony asked me not to put his contact info in the video because he doesn't want to mess with shipping. He makes is products and sells them exclusively at the hamfests in Arizona. If you are interested in getting one maybe I can work something out for you. Where do you live? Hit me up directly via email at nj7v@arrl.net
Try a Slide winder or fox River coil with the mfj vertical. Works great for me
KO4RNT David
I think I may end up there eventually. I really enjoy trying new things and those additions would be cool. Thank you David.
Don’t use a whip longer than 9ft on a SlideWinder unless you wanna break it. There website says as much.
ua-cam.com/video/qrfhZgb2HJg/v-deo.html
Try elevating your vertical Charlie. I use a simple photo tripod when I travel. Video is a compact, lighter weight version of what you just tried. Looking forward to getting back to AZ for another visit. 73, Marc, W4MPS
I saw your tripod there in the background. I will certainly try that. Thanks for the suggestion. Hope to see you in AZ sometime. Thanks for sharing the video Marc. Well done. I like the drone shot.
thanks Charlie - VE7JYD ps appreciate the ticker tape
Hi Brian - thanks buddy!
Mornin Pard