Pretty accurate information Matt. Good job. Please note one important item. In the north it's so dry in the winter, people suffer from nose bleeds and static electricity so we humidify our homes and commercial buildings. As a result there is a lot of latent heat stored inside and we absolutely use ERVs. They are probably just as important or more than the south because of our high delta T from outside to inside. I thought I would share this info with you.
"𝘐𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰 𝘥𝘳𝘺 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳...𝘴𝘰 𝘸𝘦 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘪𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘺 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘩𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴" That depends on where "in the north" you're talking about. Much of New England/the Mid Atlantic or the Pacific NW states have pretty high average humidity in winter(often over 70% in the morning). The average humidity in Chicago is actually highest from December through January. When I still lived in NJ my dehumidifier ran year round as did the one in my grandparents home near Newark NY. Humidity levels are influenced far more by things like terrain, altitude, large nearby bodies of water(Lake Michigan or Ontario for example) and other factors than they are simply by latitude.
@@CybekCusal It obviously wouldn't make sense comparing extremes such as 100% humidity at -20 in Fargo to 60% humidity at 45 degrees in Atlanta simply because the measurements were taken during the same season or even month. I'm talking about humidity levels at similar temperatures. It doesn't matter how you slice it. 65-70% average humidity on a 30 degree day in Chicago or a 35 degree day in Seattle means there is physically more moisture in the air than there is at 56% in Amarillo TX or 50% in Sedona AZ at the exact same temps. That humidity difference is why 30 degrees in Chicago is absolutely biting compared to 30 degrees in those areas of the southwest I mentioned. It finds its way into poorly sealed older homes in those areas, lingering in wall cavities/basements/crawlspaces, condensing when temps drop at night leading to problems down the road. Does that winter humidity compare to Mobile Alabama, Nawlins or other gulf coast cities at any time of the year? No, but few places in the US would. What do Seattle, Chicago or Boston have in common with those gulf coast cities though that Amarillo, Sedona or Death Valley don't? Immediate proximity to giant bodies of water that stay warm for some time even after the air temps start dropping. When comparing apples to apples, latitude only plays a small part in humidity levels.
@@CzechSixTv what you say is incorrect. You are going to hurt yourself. HVAC isn't your thing. Dew point represents the moisture content, not relative humidity. Go play with Legos.
I can upvote for him. In China, even though it is better now due to many efforts, but a lot of family started to installing fresh air systems when renovating due to the bad outdoor air quality. The trend started about 5 years ago, and I think it probably going to become a trend in the US due to wild fires each year... We live in north cal, and we are most definitely going to install one next year.
Now that is a well thought and engineered system, I really like not having to have all the extra exhaust fans,penetrations,ducting,wiring,whining to turn on the fan!,and bugs. Great Vid Thanks
Just installing 10 normal point of use exhaust fans and ducting in a house that size will run you $2K (for the cheap stuff builders love to install) plus the headaches that come with it.
Hi Matt fun fact from Poland. By code, min ventilation rate is 0.5 house volume per hour, however when designing good ventilation, people often recommend 1 house volume per hour. Great channel. I've learned a lot about building from your channel and you got me interested in the topic. Thx 😁
I'm sold, was basically going to do something similar, but this is the nicest kit I have seen. I'm a mechanic, and complete user friendly kits are the only way to go. I'm not sure I can afford to get the system right away, but I'm going to put it in my plans, and implement it when funds arise
Matt, thank you. About to build my own super tight house, and this i clearly the equipment to use. Glad it was a long video, so we had time to absorb it all.
Ballpark numbers was the difference between “the average homeowner could never afford these high end products” to “hey I’m an average homeowner maybe I could save up towards that”. Gotta change the stigma!
@@markseamans4682 way over $40k. It would likely be $50k+ plus builder P&O and Supervision. So $65-$75k. I spoke to a builder recently who put in a very similar system on a job to this, but this is even higher end.
I liked the little black boxes with facts...very nice touch. Only mis spoke information was on the bedroom co2 sensor, it will not ramp up the bedroom, it ramps the entire system in all rooms as there is no zone flow capabilities. Flawless presentation other than that one mis spoke, covering/touching all the bases.........excellent job, excellent system !
Shawn, you are absolutely correct. Thanks. There is no "zoning" on this ERV air distribution system. We did review this together after filming, but the note got missed in the editing.
I would strongly advise to think about the pipe cleaning right away : avoid tight 90 deg turn and regular acces to inlet pipes. Otherwise you might start to have allergy problems after 5 years. I m hvac engineer from Belgium.
adding this to my ICF plans. Works absolutely perfect with ICF and solving some of the issues there. I planned on a multizone split A/C and heat, or ideally Geotherm if it is possible for the eventual location and my budget. This system is really simple and makes a lot of sense. Frees up planning in so many other ways it pays for itself.
Great video - thanks. Concerning shower-room users forgetting to push the 'boost' switch - the MVHR (aka 'HRV') I'm installing (VentAxia Kinetic BH) here in England has an inbuilt humidity sensor so that the unit goes into 'boost' mode automatically for a selectable time whenever the humidity in the extract air rises. There may also be others that have that feature. One can also wire the light-switches in those wet rooms (via isolators) back to the MVHR so that it runs in 'boost' mode all the while those lights are on.
Would have been beneficial for them to discuss the kitchen exhaust and how the makeup is being handled. This is only the "fresh air makeup system" This really needs to work in conjunction with the rest of the HVAC system. Hopefully that can be covered in another show. Total cost is going to be significant.
no kitchen exhaust in this house. Induction cooktop, so it's not needed. He just puts a return grille in the kitchen as part of this ventilation system instead
@@kevinmacnichol7692 An air return in the kitchen is a code violation by the way. And the need for a kitchen exhaust is not based on the type of cooktop but rather for the heat and moisture that is generated as well as the occasions burned food when the cook is not paying attention. Or are you just trolling with the obvious misstatements?
Great video. It's awesome when the questions you have floating around in your head, are gradually answered throughout the video. So rare for presentations like this.
Amazing stuff! I appreciate your honesty and openness shown in these videos documenting the "how-to" and the "why" of different technologies implemented into your house. Here in Europe, we also have certified passive houses and even premium passive ones with top energy-saving solutions such as CLT panels used in the assembly of exterior walls, floors, partition walls and roofs walls, passive house doors, passive triple-pane windows with weather-based electrically controlled blinds, wired/wi-fi weather stations with humidity, air pressure and light sensors, green energy from photovoltaic and solar thermal panels, integrated smart meters and KNX-based protocols for remote monitoring and controlling of a variety of appliances such as the geothermal heat pump, ventilation units, room temperature sensors, hydronic systems such as subfloor heating and radiant cooling ceilings, wall-mounted smart switchers and app-based interface for ambient light scenarios, CAT 7/8 structured cabling for connected IoT devices and much much more...there is a growing worldwide tendency to build smart and even energy self-sufficient premium passive residential properties, office buildings, schools, kindergartens and the like....I would love to see some of these smart house solutions integrated into your project. Stay healthy and keep up the good work!
I was thinking the same. However, TOH would have added a light to the dark attic and had smoother camera movements, I was getting nauseated from the shaking.
Something needs to be mentioned here - for anyone considering installing an ERV in a vented attic - you're going to want to make sure that attic is well ventilated and that ductwork well insulated. Using the regular uninstulated rigid ductwork is going to fine as long as its housed in a conditioned space. All this seems fairly straightforward, but I do feel like it may get missed if an installer or DIY person isn't considering this.
Top of the line, looks like a great design in that they took everything reasonable into consideration to make a perfect unit. .75w/cfm is very efficient, it has to maintain proper cfm throughout varying SP's. Only $9.50 month at $.13/kwh.
Just 1 solar panel of 400 Watts can run this system for 10 years or more for free (after the cost of solar panels, Battery, and control system) and still have some extra energy to spare. He said this big system would use about 100 Watts, so about 2,400 Watts a day. The average day is exactly 12 hours, the power you actually get on your panels is equal to about 6 hours of full sun radiation per day. Therefore 1- 400W panel (or 4 - 100W panes for lower price but need more space) would create 400Wx6=2,400W a day. Now, this house has a great large open space for multiple arrays of solar panels systems and since his whole house is running on electricity He can practically run the entire house on solar. He does not even need a battery backup and connects the Panels to his Electric Miters and the power production would be subtracted from his Bill. In some states, if u produce more power than use they would even pay u for the extra energy u give them. Now since he lives in Texas a really hot n sunny state his power production would be even higher, so I would have a backup battery for emergencies since Texas Power System SUCKS! WHY THE F***!!! Texas is the only state in the country that is outside the National Power Grid?
Matt, we start construction on a Passive House in September 2024 in WI. Trying to contact a Zehnder dealer for product and installation. You have a great channel.
This is extremely interesting. Such high level engineering. I followed along and understood everything as explained until we got to the proton nebulizing surface area exchange rate cross flow efficiency counter flow combobulator
@Matt Risenger: You mentioned no ventilation penetrations, which is good, except for the Kitchen. Kitchen gases don't just include moisture, but hot grease/oils which break-down into esters that act like paint, they can gum up your ERV/HEV exchanger membrane in no time. Unless you have extreme filtering, don't vent anything in the kitchen to your ERV/HEV (or HRV). Just look at the pipe behind your old range hood and you'll get an idea about how ineffective range hood filters are. I don't know about Texas code, but it's probable that just using an HEV or HRV, even at max output to vent kitchen, may violate code. The cases I've seen in California do with following exception: Cooking appliance that is in accordance with UL 710B for reduced emissions where the grease discharge does not exceed 2.9 E-09 ounces per cubic inch (oz/in3) (5.0 E-06 kg/m3) where operated with a total airflow of 500 cubic feet per minute (cfm) (0.236 m3/s). Frankly most home kitchen range hoods don't meet code in California, but this is one of those areas where the inspectors are allowed a lot of leeway. Hope this reaches you in time.
yes - microwave with built in "ventilation" are a joke. I put a real hood in over my cooktop an the difference it makes is amazing. And it's not that big a deal to crack a door to get enough makeup air when it's on high. I probably should have some sort of a make up fan but I'm not staying in this house long term and I certainly won't get the investment back. Having sold houses in the past when moving most people are beyond clueless when it comes to infrastructure - all they care about is move in ready :p
Pricey but impressive, especially that cost of operating. And when you consider that you don't really have to run the a/c as much to provide dehumidification in the south, that can add up to a lot of savings.
Love all your Videos, Big..."FAN" of your HRV Videos, Placed an Intellisense in my house through watching you. Thanks buddy,hope your home is all buttonedup and benefitting from your experiences, take it easy
Matt, curious about some things on this system. What is the monthly electric cost? What is the average filter replacement cost? How would this system work if you wanted to have a fireplace in your house? How would the possible smoke effect the system or would it damage the system?
An impressive system. I wish matt would compare the total cost of something like this versus the traditional ERV with brach ducted system and multiple fart fans in each bathroom. 10-12K plue 5-6K in labor seems like a whole lot compared to the other system that was being used.
Matt Risinger, thanks for sharing this! I appreciate your dedication to clean indoor air. That Gas appliances add the possibility of carbon monoxide is reason ENOUGH to go all electric ⚡️
Looks like a very good system, definitely important on a house built this tight. Would love to see the TAB contractor's ( third-party , must be third party to eliminate any conflicts of interest) results when his house is completed.TAB = testing, adjusting and balancing ( it is an actual trade with certification used mainly in the commercial and industrial building industry). With the covid virus TAB technicians are in very high demand right now, the mechanical engineers for hospitals and school are currently demanding a much higher air turnover rate with more make-up air. Good for my industry ( gas utility), bad for the customer ( higher utility bills). Currently in Germany all schools are mandated to open all windows for 10 to 15 minutes every hour ( they turned the heating system off and open all windows, after 10 or 15 minutes they close the windows and turn the heating system back on for 1 hour and repeat.). I can't wait till this covid virus thing is over.
Couple things I wish you would have covered. 1.) How does it interact with your AC/Heat unit if at all. 2.) How do you handle positive and negative pressure zones in rooms. I notice your pumping air into rooms without a exhaust which would tell a novice like me that is pressurizing that room. For tight houses, I want it as balanced as possible I would think to keep from blowing or sucking air where I dont want it too. As always thanks for content and God bless.
Jeff , I think the concept is for the positive room to push air through the negative pressure rooms where you want to exhaust. Such as the bath rooms, kitchen and laundry room. So instead of one return, a house has many, an equal amount to be accurate. This would stop wind tunnel effect in poorly balanced homes. What I cannot see is can you still create AC/heat zones? I want my office to be cooler than my gal wants her craft room.
These airflows are relatively low compared to heating and cooling. The systems operate independently. And the pressure differentials between rooms are enough to change the air, but easy enough to flow around/under closed doors. Supplying fresh air to bedrooms and living rooms and extracting from wet/stinky rooms keeps the air in the whole house clean without any noticeable drafts.
In the UK you definitely have the inlet and outlet on the same wall, avoids all sorts of balance problems from the wind, not sure why you'd set it up differently - solar gain?
Fantastic video. In a future video could you go over how you will manage your dryer? Venting, make up air, special location if any, special door/windows if any, etc?
impressive product, hopefully, they will engineer a more compact system for the Chinese market. I don't think my 250m2 apartment has the equipment room to fit an amazing system like this.
I just installed a Multistack ERV in Manhattan for a new 8 unit building, built to passive house and LEED standards. Amazing indoor air quality thus far and low energy costs.
I watched the video hoping that the topic of kitchen exhaust would be taken care of. I want to have plenty of BTU of cooking power, but want to know how to handle getting the wok smoke and other serious air concerns handled. Thank you for the content!
@Matt -->Please follow up on your next videos how this system ties in with Bathroom exhaust and more importantly dryer (heat pump system) and stove vents (separate system to some how save energy, maybe?) Great videos, keep them coming.
Matt does a minor explanation from 4:20-5:25, and the installer guy explains it at 11:20-12:00. Basically, bathrooms, laundry room, and kitchen that would normally have exhausts/vents/etc will channel through the one "exhaust out" 8 inch duct that is part of the system.
@@trinity1aee So all that greasy air from the stove vent hood is going through that filter that protects the air exchanger from gunking up ? That filter would need constant changing, unless there is another filter in the range hood itself. Also, is the ERV fan going to be able to keep up with a 900cfm stove exhaust fan when it was designed for just 180cfm ? I am pretty sure a stove vent needs to be metal, so those plastic hoses are only for supply fresh air and the exhausts from kitchen and baths are all traditional metal ducts ?
Great improvement over all those individual vent fans, and holes. I'm curious about the dryer vent, kitchen hood and the air conditioning. Are they integrated into this system somehow, or are they stand alone? Also it would be nice to see how you get from the attic to the master bath and master bedroom on the first floor. Great videos! The more I watch, the tighter my house gets (and more expensive). I would like to see videos of how your associates, Wade & Jake, and even Steve apply these designs and equipment in zone 5 construction. I'm building in NJ so it's a little different than Austin. Thanks!
MATT! You definitely need to check out the heat pump condenser clothes dryer. They are super effective and efficient and DON’T NEED VENTILATION! These help keep the envelope of the house tight and super efficient. Oh, and may I please suggest you purchase a gymbal for the camera. It will negate much of the shaky movements. When I was working on my own documentary programs as a cameraman and editor, I used one for a fashion shoot and it helped the image to stabilise greatly. Cheers from Australia mate. Keep up the good work.
@@buildshow Hi Matt, I'm in the process of self installing a heat recovery system in the UK. Your price estimates are about the same here too. I've also had a Miele heat pump dryer for 5 years in a small utility cupboard stacked ontop of the washing machine. It works billiantly but I decided to put a dedicated heat recovery extract vent in there to remove the slight tumble dryer smell of hot clothes. Even before intalling MHRV, I liked the fact that I wasnt wasting energy blowing hot air outside.
@@JamesBlazen Switzerland has outright banned vented dryers since 2012. Heatpump or electric condensing dryers are the way to go. Heating up air and then blowing it through clothes and then right outside is very wasteful.
That is an awesome system. I do have a question. If say you are having a party or work is being done so lots of doors open and left open for longer than usual, could the system have a mode to run positive pressure while the doors are open? It seems to me that if you tried to go positive pressure but failed, we could assume a door or window is open and just keep the flow on. When it goes positive, switch back to balanced mode and every once in a while try to go positive pressure. This could also warn of envelope failures... Try to go positive pressure at sometime between 3 and 5 am (or whenever you expect very little activity) and if it fails several days in a row, send an alert.
Good question, James. The fans can be set to be positively or negatively balanced up to 15%. The advantages/disadvantages vary from one climate to another. Also, you can temporarily turn off either the supply or exhaust fan.
Great system, very timely info too, been wondering about ventillation systems for tight houses in cold climate. One question, how does rangehood air get dealt with if potential oil and grease gets sucked into the system? Does the range have it's own set of filters?
@@mtscott Most hoods will have filters that catch most of the grease. But a well designed kitchen will have its own makeup air system for tho hood. It doesn't have to be an expensive set up, just a powered duct fan system that brings makeup air in around the bottom of the range. They have solenoids that turn the makeup air supply on when the hood exhaust is turned on.
This was addressed in a more recent video. The range hood is *not* connected to the ERV/HRV. Besides the oil/grease issue, there's just too much air. High flow range hoods do 600-800 cfm. Matt's ERV is under 200 cfm, so it would never be able to handle it. In his house, he has an intake fan (with filter) to balance the range hood, that's powered when the range hood is on.
I'm really impressed with this house. This is clearly the future. You only showed the air supplies though. What about the exhausts? On another note: Have you thought about complete energy self-sufficiency all year round with solar panels and a hydrogen storage system? That would certainly be the icing on the cake.
Well this discusses how in the north its HRV but still acts as a filtered fresh air. I always felt that an open widow is the best, but since I have this experience of in home moisture to actual dangerous levels, I feel that legitimizes these types of air movement systems
10 months later, I just got a quote from my local Zehnder distributor for an upcoming basically Passive house build. Thanks again Matt for the video!! Next on the list, EAS windows.... Here we go!
Awesome unit, How will this regulate the amount of hot air vs cold air when it's unwanted? if the weather is hot i doubt you want warm air coming in then it's butting heads with your HVAC?
This is a great system however I have two concerns: 1 - What is the noise level at the exhaust grille? 2 - Does the Enthalpy filter actualy reduce the humidity from the incoming air? Love the show, thanks in advance for the answers and your opinion
I install HRV here in Quebec, the cheapest one with install start at around $3000CAD and maybe $3500CAD for a ERV. I think this system is expensive but I like the fact that it auto-balance, your system at $15-20000USD installed is quite expensive but maybe its meant for people with deep pockets, you can usually sell your stuff at higher price to those :o
Where do you get your supplies, from?! I was planning on a retro-fit into an older house here in Quebec, built in 1985, that the guys installed an Air Exchanger in the Attic! I have been looking around to find either someone to give me a cost run down or DIY this thing, but can only find the box store HRV/ERV's and they don't look tempting at all!
@@FelipeSQ04 entry level hrv from venmar, aldes, lifebreath, any hvac company can install those at around 3000. The suppliers doesnt sell to normal people but at Canac, you can get the nektra and its basically a lifebreath
@@SpecialKthx Thanks a lot, I had read that some places only sold for hvac companies, so I thought it made sense to confirm with you. Will try to go through the Renovert program to make this change, since right now the air exchanger in my home is in the Attic just pushing winter cold air inside :D Thanks a bunch!
@@FelipeSQ04 I suspect you have a asthon or a venmar econo/pro If you have a 2 story house it will be more complicated but a 1 story with basement not finish or with removable tiles will be easier. You might have to sacrifice a corner of a closet tho.
Stuff like this is what we need to be code / standard, in the UK the overwhelming majority of new builds ( no matter the cost ) have no MVHR or anything like that. You get a gas fired boiler wet central heating, extractor fan in your bathroom and maybe kitchen, then trickle vents in your windows 😞
@@buildshow Any particular reason why the kitchen exhaust isn't being integrated with your Zehnder system? I'm very curious how these ERV/HRV systems can integrate that exhaust since they typically require a substantial flow rate but only when called upon. I like the idea of one exhaust penetration for the whole house, I'm just not quite sure how that can be managed with these systems. Also, how are you managing the evaporated moisture from your heat pump dryer? I would think you would still need a vent for that. The heat pump in the dryer is only a heat source to facilitate evaporation of moisture from the damp items within it. Also,
@@buildshow even if you had a dryer vent, the q600 can adjust supply and exhaust rates in response to the dryer exhaust. by not having a dryer vent, you are putting a big humidity load in your building envelope, and the zehnder system shown does not provide humidity control. so you would have to have mechanical systems (force air conditioning and/or dehumidifier) to provide humidity control. some people go for a recirculating hood, but a kitchen exhaust is going to work better. i have a heat pump water heater and considered a heat pump dryer but concluded that it really didn't do much and was pretty much a waste of money.
you definitely don't want the kitchen hood tied to the dedicated outdoor air system. the grease and residue from cooking would gum up the ducts and the filter at the erv. you don't want the dryer vent hooked in either because the filter in your dryer does not capture all of the lint. the only things you want going into the return ducts of the doas are odors.
@@paperwait9611 You make a good point about dryer lint. That would inevitably build up in the ducts, except the Zender duct tubes appear to have a smooth surface finish and the interface with the manifolds also appears quite smooth. The manifold boxes could be problematic though. Not only is there particulate in the dryer vent air but also a lot of moisture and don't forget heat. In the summer time you would not want to transfer that heat to your supply air which an ERV/HRV would do; you'd be fighting your AC system with your ventilation system. The moisture transfer could also certainly be problem if you don't already have a dehumidifier in the system. Like you said an ERV is not a dehumidifier, unless of course the exhaust air has a dew point lower than the incoming air, then the core would condensate...there is a degree of humidity control inherent to an ERV since enthalpy accounts for both sensible and latent heat. Regarding the kitchen vent, presumably regardless of direct vent or tie in to a residential DOAS (i.e. ERV/HRV) a grease filter should be present. Recirculation vents do not adequately manage odor, smoke, or steam... they have very little benefit at all frankly. That said most kitchen exhaust hoods call for 150-400CFM would could be equally just as large as the ventilation needs of the house. So do you upsized the DOAS to include the kitchen or accept the needs for another vent? Kind of seems like you really need three vents to avoid any problems Kitchen, Dryer, rest of the house. Problem is the DOAS would need to compensate for the Dryer and the Kitchen exhaust with supply air, so you'd still need some kind of tie in or dedicated direct air inlets for those areas, but then you lose efficiency by not tempering that makeup air.
Wow, $10-12k? I did a dual core Fantech HRV in my house, total install was less than $2000 with all the ducts and it’s the largest unit they make for residential. It wasn’t as plug and play, but that’s a huge markup for plug and play.
most of that cost is for stuff *other* than the unit. zehnder accessories are pretty expensive. the q600 also has a maximum capacity of close to 400 cfm, which is probably several times greater than the maximum cfm for your fantech system. there is also a lot more intelligence in the q600 than there is in the fantech. for example, when the zehnder person in the video said that the tubes were 12 cfm each, he didn't actually know that - it's just a talking point number. the only way that that would possibly be true, is if the total equivalent lengths for all tube runs were the same. the way it works is that you just throw the tubes out there, and you rely on the intelligence of the q600 to figure out the best way to distribute air to them. so they are counting on the q600 to do a kind of automated "manual d" analysis. what they call "commissioning" sounds like a "manual b" type of analysis; it's the kind of thing that you should do in any forced air system.
joe rond well I have the SHR 3005r which is rated at 267 cfm. So yes it’s lower cfm, but why would I need more when I rarely run it above low speed anyway? So I could install 2 for less than $4000 total, and have over 100 cfm more. If I wanted, but I don’t want or need. My unit on high can exchange all the air in the envelope of my home every 2.31 hours.
Will you still be running a separate dehumidifier? I’m putting together my HVAC system for my new house construction and I’m loving your fresh air system
Matt always does this in his builds now. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t running a discrete dehumidifier as this system isn’t really intended for dedicated dehum.
@@CompCrasher86. And it isn't connected to the "H and AC" part of the air system. (A downside really - it should be plumbed right into the dehumidifier input to the recirculating ducted Reverse cycle AC.
I want to see how heating, cooling, and de-humidification is all tied into this system too. I'm not quite sure how those pieces of the puzzle fit together.
In colder climates, even with an HRV, it's recommended to have an exhaust fan in the bathrooms. In defrost mode during the winter, some HRVs are only recirculating, meaning that thick poo particle air is swirling around inside the hrv system/ house during the entire defrost cycle. I also think it's better just to quickly chuck air with high excessive moisture content right outside instead of sending it back to the HRV for processing, but that's even arguable. I also think it's more efficient to quickly run the bathroom exhaust for a shorter period of time in tandem with an HRV. I think Matt needs a follow up video reminding viewers that his house is in a warm climate where an ERV is called for. The HRV and ERV are two different things, used for different purposes and climates. All in all, we humans are trying to reach for perfect stability indoors, while the outdoors goes buck wild. It's marvelous we can even reach 70% efficiency with an ERV/HRV. And like Matt says, if the power goes out...open a window! Be practical when chasing perfection.
I started reading the comments because I was curious about all the bathroom moisture that is typically exhausted outside will now be allowed to transfer to the supply air in @mattrisinger ‘s new house since it’s an ERV and moisture transfers. Am I understanding this correctly?
@@Gamerz00760 That's correct. They're in Texas. But in cold climates you have to recirc or it will freeze up. During the recirc, it is not intaking nor exhausting. In -30 celcius winters such as Canada, recirc is a must to prevent freeze up.
More questions: make up air for a big vent hood? And if we upgraded our 2013 ERV, do we just remove and plug the existing bathroom fans and exhaust system?
I got 1200CFM Kitchen Vent Hood... have yet to install a MUA yet... Does this system compensate for that or is an extra MUA still required? I also use fireplace in winter... so sometime the smoke is terrible in bad burn. Another headache... However, I do like this system.
@@MrTiger0002 - The short answer is No. A 1200 CFM hood should have an exhaust duct of at least 10 inches (12 inches is preferred). That means you'd need a minimum 10" MUA duct. In reality, you'll want the MUA duct to be larger (much larger) to cut down on the inflow air velocity and noise. Both of these base values are larger than the entire EVR system supply capacity. The same would apply to a gas furnace. don't use conditioned air to feed the fire, run an outside supply for the furnace and keep the entire combustion process separated from the living space.
Matt, I love the content of your channel. I used to build Passive Houses in the northeast. We used Zhender HRVs all the time - they are great products. I'm so glad to see this content getting out to a broader audience. Now for the constructive criticism - you've GOT to get your camera person a steady cam or gimbal system. I'm getting motion sick with all the fidgeting and adjusting (I've noticed this on other videos too, especially if there's a tour or "let's move around and see this house" component). I mean this with only the best intentions. I love your videos, but nausea is no fun!
Any BAS with door switches and motion sensors will accomplish this for you. HVAC controls and window blinds are also common in a BAS. Some DIY guys are using raspberry PI’s to accomplish this rather than expensive tridium/niagra proprietary programming and controllers.
TJ Challstrom Humidity sensor won’t close when you just want to take a shit in the toilet. Make up air would have to be balanced with the same cfm as the fart fan. Wouldn’t want to create negative pressure in the space and pull more air away from the other zones. None of the other duct runs have motorized dampers on them. Constant speed fan at the ERV.
TJ Challstrom all you need is a thermostat with a cap tube connected to the hot water line to control the fan. The water line heats up when hot water is used thus turning on the fan anytime the bath water is used. Low voltage to. Add a 15 minute time cut off delay and it will run 15 minutes after shower is stopped. You’ll never have to worry if someone forgot to turn on the exhaust fan again. It’s simple
Matt, in Canukistan our building code calls for a 'principal fan switch', usually located in a hallway or other common area. It's linked with a bathroom exhaust fan, usually the largest CFM unit, and fires a relay in parallel with that fan when either switch is turned on. This relay closes terminals R and G in the furnace through a jumper. Every time that particular fan is used in the bathroom, which is several times per day, or someone uses the principal fan switch, the house has air changes exchanges. We usually use timers for one or both. Is the air feeling stale? Just hit the 30 minute button on the principal fan switch.
33:26 While some may be concerned about the Zehnder cost set up (or operating costs - which are really not bad at 2.4Kw/ per day) I can see the Zehnder system taking place of additional mini split units that would have otherwise been needed throughout the house. So yes, this unit costs a bit more, but the HVAC bill is going to be half!
@@kadmow I know that an ERV system is for air quality. My point is that when you have such an efficient air distribution system such as this Zehnder ERV, you eliminate the need for additional mini split units throughout the home because this system will continually distribute air around the house.
@@JamesBlazen I understand that. Matt has already stated that he will be utilizing mini split heads in his home. My only point was that this Zehnder system offsets the cost of installing mini splits in; say, every room, which I've done. Next time, I would consider the Zehnder option and save the cost of at least half the mini splits. The bonus is getting the fresh, filtered, heat recovered air that the ERV provides. (A requirement anyways on a house that is under 1.0 ACH.)
was waiting and waiting for the talk about the exhaust fan in the kitchen does that air get recycled out the unit - if it does how are you trapping the grease particles.
While the system may be auto balancing to always maintain that 180cfm, it's going to take quite a bit of back and forth tinkering to get each vent in each room dialed in. As you dial in the vent in one bedroom to say 10 cfm, it's going to effect the flow at ever other vent in the house by some amount. As you work your way around the house and dial in each vent to the flow you want, the vent you started at is not going to be 10cfm anymore because of the adjustments made elsewhere. Perhaps it's a negligible amount and who cares, but I could see a person having to do a few complete cycles of adjusting at the vents before the effect is no longer measurable. Seems like a great system though.
It's probably analogous to a "pump-up" leach field. Start out with everything wide open. (In this configuration, most of the flow will be through the shortest duct run.) Then, beginning with the shortest run, turn down the vent until it's flowing like you want it. You may not have to turn down the vents on the longest runs at all. Only duct runs with similar drag would need to be adjusted simultaneously.
Hi Matt, I have questions. I love this system and wanted one forever!! 1) So your dryer and kitchen vent do not vent to the outside? What about cooking grease and dryer lint? I would think you would still want venting to the outside for those. How are you cleaning those particular contaminates 2) In your experience would this system eliminate dust like a clean room? Could you do a test on this once you get the system up and see what level of dust and pollen accumulates inside your home. 2b) In your experience, does HEPA filter systems added to HVAC system remove dust and pollen at an effective, almost clean room like level. I would love to see an episode surrounding these questions. Thanks.
I second this.. I'm also interested in your kitchen vent set up. I was thinking of just having a smaller hood vent and fan for an induction cook top but if I can avoid it with a system like this then thats a massive plus. I want my house to have minimal vents due to being in a wildland urban interface (high fire zone). For the dryer I'm thinking of having a vent installed for future proofing but sealed and use a heat pump dryer. I'm curious if you are doing the same. Thanks!
Matt, love the ventilation system episode. But what happens for those of us that live in the desert SW. I have both traditional HVAC with central air and an evaporative cooler system. The AC is great in the couple months we have higher humidity where the evap doesn’t perform that well and at night when the AC is very quiet. But an evap system is all about pouring a ton of outside air into the house and pushing it right out again through a slightly opened window or door. Yes I can run a house on purely refrigerated system but the cost savings of the evap system is enormous, it simply works amazingly well. In a nut shell we here in the desert would be throwing the fresh air out the window. Big expense for a system that would only be useful during the heating months. Also why isn’t the system integrated with your HVAC and eliminate double the ducts running to all your rooms?
To save anyone else from doing the math about how much 100W will cost you a month, given avg. Texas electricity price of $0.11/kWh. 730 hours * 100 watts / 1000 * $0.11/kWh = $8/mo
While this is a useful calculation, you need to pro rate the cost of the system and the maintenance of the system over its life. Additionally, if you're considering putting this in an existing home, what are your cost going to be to make the home tight to take advantage of the system.
Yea that's a great savings but what the marketing wank and builders don't tell you. The huge upfront investment to buy it and the high cost maintain/ repair them you WiLL NEVER makes your money back. I work and install these systems daily and I would never want this in my home or a ultra tight home. Cost of one of these systems I can buy 2-3 of a high quality mid range efficiency system that doesn't break the bank to repair or run. I can actually make my money back
Great information. Looks like a promising product. Would be great to see a future revision support the Matter standard. I was wondering about pleasant open-window weather. Does the ventilator still need to run then? It strikes me that there are several temperature levels where different ventilation might be desirable. There is a level where it is so pleasant, we just want the windows open and then any fan becomes unnecessary. Then there is a level where sometimes it is pleasant outside but hotter inside, even with the windows open. Then we want something to draw in air from outside perhaps simply through the windows. We don’t need energy recovery; merely need fresh air pulled in and the hot air from radiant sunlight pushed out. No need to exchange heat or humidity: simply exchange air. Does this appliance address these issues? Or am I failing to appreciate what it does in such circumstances already?
How well do these systems work with cooking fumes / oil particles produced while cooking? How about laundry dryers? Obviously can't just vent that inside the house, especially if it's a gas dryer. Also how about the moisture produced by bathrooms, could that lead to mold/moisture issues in the ducts? Lots of questions and while the idea of an airtight home and clean air sound great - still giving me a lot of pause. Also how do the costs add up? Sure there's that extra "$5k-12k" on the system itself (forget if that included labor or not), but there's also the upkeep. Ok, that's 100w used at all times with the fans running? That's like $113/yr just in energy for that. PLUS he said to check/change filters every quarter (those look like special filters... I'm sure those costs add up too). And how long do we expect these units to last? 15 years? 30 years? Longer? While it may make a heating/cooling bill a little cheaper and the house a little more comfortable and healthy to live in, the pure math just doesn't seem to add up to me. How much of a difference in the HVAC bill would we even expect with all this extra insulation and airtightness? If it IS indeed more expensive in the long run, it would be good to know how much $ I'm paying to achieve this level of physical comfort and air quality.
Add some solar and over 20 years the costs go away - then we may need to replace the solar - at costs equivalent of a new AC unit. (Thinking about it - HVAC will likely never have a similar warranty to solar panels, so the solar is probably a better complement to "zero net cost")
Good points, Colin. An ROI could be estimated using specific flow rates and temperature differentials as long as you're comparing it to the same ventilation rate using bathroom fans (have to compare it to something). We have examples of this we could share with you. But the reality is that most homes are very poorly ventilated, making the ROI on heat/energy recovery difficult. And beyond that, attempts are now being made by health researchers to quantify the lost productivity and medical costs that can be traced back to poor indoor air quality. Should that be part of the ROI?
@@christophersmith1894 . Indeed. Historical metrics will likely show a net cost (with conventional power) with overcomplicating HVAC. -A simple gas burner in a tin shed probably beats any sealed, insulated, controlled-ventilation McMansion. Comfort -that's subjective -spend what you want on being comfortable. What you describe as "poorly ventilated" is actually poorly sealed yes no cost saving untill the envelope is "controlled"-freely passively ventilated, whenever and wherever the wind blows. Poorly ventilated is an Icebox with the lid on.. have a laugh. It gives me a chuckle too.
Yes, this one my biggest pet peeves - these are expensive-to-design ($3-$5K), expensive-to-install (these complex HVAC systems can easily run $50K) and expensive-to-maintain (filters cost hundreds every year - IF you even know they need to be replaced). These are 1%er systems or virtue-signalling systems, not Average Joe Homeowner systems. Granted, Matt's audience isn't Joe Homeowner, but it bugs me that there's no acknowledgment of this - despite the cost consistently being a major concern in the comments.
@@krinohs I'm lazy by nature. If it is hard to get at I'm going to put it off. Having a beautiful system in the attic means to me out of sight out of mind. Also if I followed all of manufacturer service intervals my life would consist of nothing but work and servicing all my ______ and sleep. Ps. It is wed and I'm going to hit my 40 hours in about an hour and I have alot more to get done before Sunday. This is more than normal but not out of the ordinary for me or my co-workers.
@@krinohs You seem like a fun person.... You ever heard of a joke? Yeah, I know how to, and, more importantly, do preventative maintenance on my major appliances. I was just making a J-O-K-E about it - Because there are people who would do it.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Interesting that a system like this is considered "exclusive" or "for the rich". In Estonia (where I live), heat recuperating ventilation systems are pretty much standard for every new apartment and house built, irrespective of the cost of the place. You pretty much have to install them if you want to meet minimum energy efficiency requirements. A lot of these systems actually come with control units that will remind you when to change the filters and it's more like once to twice per year not every quarter. The filters themselves are usually between €20-30 so you're looking at maybe 20-60€ per year in filter costs, depending on how often you change them. What you get in return (at least in a cold climate) is huge savings in heating costs because most modern systems are at least 80% efficient, many have an efficiency rate over 90%. A house or apartment building with natural ventilation will lose 20-30% in heat via exhausted air. Even old apartment buildings that are being renovated will have heat recuperating ventilation systems fitted. You can watch a Zehnder system being fitted to an old apartment building here: ua-cam.com/video/9MvpRtf9Pqg/v-deo.html
@@krinohs thanks for winning a bet between my wife and I. I said I can say 1 thing mid comment say something else and someone will call it out. I got lunch out of the deal, So thanks
This is great. I have so many questions because of how fascinating and unfortunately uncommon the tech is in today’s homes. What’s the maintenance? Does the core need to be cleaned? Is that prefilter going to get overloaded? I’m thinking pollen vacuum on the side of your house. You run multiple duct runs to each room to set your max airflow and then you fine tune it with the registers? When flow hood the register, won’t the self adjusting throw off all the other registers you just adjusted? If its in boost for somebody taking a shower won’t every other room be boosted as well? Whats the strategy to prevent a “draft” feeling from the cooler fresh air? Here in the north the outside air can be 70* cooler in peak winter. Will airflow between intake and exhaust rooms be enough to open/close doors? I love the approach you’re taking here and I hope it takes off. I can’t wait to see this integrate with smart home and IoT products.
I wonder how long semi-permeable membranes in ERVs will last - in a jacket some break down within 5-10 years. A HRV has more durable partitions - but no vapour permeability
Pretty sure the core needs to be replaced at some point also. Typically you can vacuum them at least, but unsure if that can be done with this one? I expect the core to be expensive to change.
The core should be removed and cleaned every year. Vacuum the edges and run fresh water through it (warning, though, not all ERV cores are water washable like this one). Our filters should be checked like almost all filters on a quarterly basis. Yes, the Luna diffusers provide adjustment to compensate for the varying duct lengths. There can be a couple iterations of adjust registers, but the fact that this Q600 ERV adjusts automatically to maintain the total flow helps make the process a lot easier. Yes, boost is for the entire system (there's no "zoning"). High heat recovery and relatively low airflows are sufficient to avoid cold drafts. Yes, the airflows in each room are usually low enough to move freely around/under a closed door.
Great episode, only thing you didn't cover was how the life expectancy and guarantees compare to the alternatives. e.g. Typical bath fan lasts what 5 years so long term costs are probably lower for Zehnder?
@@BrianKrahmer 10-12k is just the equipment package. If I know anything about hvac it's that the labor is usually 1 to 2x the equipment price. Hence the 30k
@@jl9678 if you're willing to pay 20k to install a system like that, drop me a line. i'll fly over from europe just to do that. at a labor rate of $100/hr, you're talking 5 weeks of work. i'd be disappointed if i couldn't install that system in less than a week. i'd honestly estimate 3 days
These are common in Alaska where new construction is very tight. A fresh air heat exchange system is a must or you'll get moisture buildup in the house.
Range hoods can not be exhausted through an HRV/ERV potential for a very dangerous situation. Hood fans can be paired with a powered makeup air system... I believe Matt has so video regarding this situation
Hey Matt, could you make a video that shows how this will integrate with your Mitsubishi heat pumps? I am not understanding fully, is there an air-handler and rigid ducting, or is *this* your ducting? Thanks so much for your videos, I am definitely implementing this in our build.
This ERV is installed independent of the home's HVAC system. So it does not integrate. Quote from Zehnder "It is essential that the ventilation and HVAC systems are separate and do not share ductwork. This ensures proper airflow rates and energy efficiency". So basically the homeowner will be paying about 2X.
@@skmetal7 That's exactly what the ERV does. Look up how it works. I'm no expert here, merely a residential homeowner who has looked into the benefits of one and decided it wasn't worth it for my house and climate.
Matt I don’t think in the bathroom that running the air exhaust a little all the time will get all the steam out of the room when taking a hot shower. I’ve thought about putting a thermostat on my hot water line to shower that would turn the fan on and off just when hot water was detected in the water line with a time delay cut off of 15 minutes so after hot water was cut off it would continue for 15 more minutes. You would never have to worry if your kids forgot to turn on a fan anymore it would all be controlled by the hot water flowing through the water line and can even turn the fan to a higher speed. It’s 24 volts or even 12v dc to be safe. Think about my idea and maybe you can use it sometime. The thermostat cap tube would just wrap around the water line so no water would ever contact the cap tube. It’s a simple design. Good luck and thanks for your videos 👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
My question with an erv is when you’re exhausting humid air after a shower is the erv not transferring the humidity to the fresh air, therefore defeating the purpose of exhausting humid air to start with
...and these intermittent shower events are just a blip when you're using continuous ventilation and considering the whole volume of the house. Your point is valid in that there is some quantity of humidity staying in the house with moisture recovery, but it's very short-lived in the scheme of things. The continuous exhaust from the bathroom long after the shower is over keeps the bathroom mold-free and that perpetuates good air quality in your house.
@@bryce4071 That would be for an exhaust fan in the laundry room not for the clothes dryer itself. The amount of heat, moisture, and lint in the dryer exhaust would overwhelm the system very quickly and would be a disaster. While they did not specifically get into the dryer exhaust, that would have to be run separately to exhaust directly to outside air. The Zehnder system would presumably take care of the makeup air needs when the dryer was in operation.
I’m actually surprised to learn people have exhaust vents in laundry rooms. If its all being taken care of by the dryer exhaust, why? Or is it humidity from the washer maybe?
I installed S&P ERV unit, was basically free to install with new HVAC system and was just over $1k for EnergyStar certified unit with those DC motors and controller
It’s a great video really liked it, it’s answer so many questions about ventilation, I only have one what about kitchen stove venting. Hope you cover that question soon.
Speaking of emergency power... are you going to have your panel setup to have a gen-set run all these critical systems when the power is out from utility? Also, would be installing a permanent natural gas gen-set?
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏻👊🏻 ..... Would be great if in addition to being able to add CO2 sensors, if there were compatible humidity sensors that also worked with this system, this way you could put them in the bathrooms and have it go into boost mode automatically.
Hey Fred, this is possible! Any device with a 0-10V output can be used with our systems. And we have RH sensors available. However, continuous ventilation ("low and slow") is so effective that a lot of automated fan speed changes aren't really that necessary.
Pretty accurate information Matt. Good job. Please note one important item. In the north it's so dry in the winter, people suffer from nose bleeds and static electricity so we humidify our homes and commercial buildings. As a result there is a lot of latent heat stored inside and we absolutely use ERVs. They are probably just as important or more than the south because of our high delta T from outside to inside. I thought I would share this info with you.
"𝘐𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘳𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘴𝘰 𝘥𝘳𝘺 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘳...𝘴𝘰 𝘸𝘦 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘪𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘺 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘩𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴"
That depends on where "in the north" you're talking about. Much of New England/the Mid Atlantic or the Pacific NW states have pretty high average humidity in winter(often over 70% in the morning). The average humidity in Chicago is actually highest from December through January. When I still lived in NJ my dehumidifier ran year round as did the one in my grandparents home near Newark NY. Humidity levels are influenced far more by things like terrain, altitude, large nearby bodies of water(Lake Michigan or Ontario for example) and other factors than they are simply by latitude.
@@CzechSixTv that's relative humidify Einstein. Go back to school pal.
@@CzechSixTv Chicago's highest dew point ever recorded was 83°F on July 30, 1999
@@CybekCusal It obviously wouldn't make sense comparing extremes such as 100% humidity at -20 in Fargo to 60% humidity at 45 degrees in Atlanta simply because the measurements were taken during the same season or even month. I'm talking about humidity levels at similar temperatures.
It doesn't matter how you slice it. 65-70% average humidity on a 30 degree day in Chicago or a 35 degree day in Seattle means there is physically more moisture in the air than there is at 56% in Amarillo TX or 50% in Sedona AZ at the exact same temps.
That humidity difference is why 30 degrees in Chicago is absolutely biting compared to 30 degrees in those areas of the southwest I mentioned. It finds its way into poorly sealed older homes in those areas, lingering in wall cavities/basements/crawlspaces, condensing when temps drop at night leading to problems down the road.
Does that winter humidity compare to Mobile Alabama, Nawlins or other gulf coast cities at any time of the year? No, but few places in the US would. What do Seattle, Chicago or Boston have in common with those gulf coast cities though that Amarillo, Sedona or Death Valley don't? Immediate proximity to giant bodies of water that stay warm for some time even after the air temps start dropping.
When comparing apples to apples, latitude only plays a small part in humidity levels.
@@CzechSixTv what you say is incorrect. You are going to hurt yourself. HVAC isn't your thing. Dew point represents the moisture content, not relative humidity. Go play with Legos.
I can upvote for him. In China, even though it is better now due to many efforts, but a lot of family started to installing fresh air systems when renovating due to the bad outdoor air quality. The trend started about 5 years ago, and I think it probably going to become a trend in the US due to wild fires each year... We live in north cal, and we are most definitely going to install one next year.
Now that is a well thought and engineered system, I really like not having to have all the extra exhaust fans,penetrations,ducting,wiring,whining to turn on the fan!,and bugs. Great Vid Thanks
Just installing 10 normal point of use exhaust fans and ducting in a house that size will run you $2K (for the cheap stuff builders love to install) plus the headaches that come with it.
Hi Matt
fun fact from Poland. By code, min ventilation rate is 0.5 house volume per hour, however when designing good ventilation, people often recommend 1 house volume per hour.
Great channel. I've learned a lot about building from your channel and you got me interested in the topic. Thx 😁
I'm sold, was basically going to do something similar, but this is the nicest kit I have seen. I'm a mechanic, and complete user friendly kits are the only way to go. I'm not sure I can afford to get the system right away, but I'm going to put it in my plans, and implement it when funds arise
Matt, thank you. About to build my own super tight house, and this i clearly the equipment to use. Glad it was a long video, so we had time to absorb it all.
Ballpark prices, I'm so proud of you. Thank you.
Ballpark numbers was the difference between “the average homeowner could never afford these high end products” to “hey I’m an average homeowner maybe I could save up towards that”. Gotta change the stigma!
I’m breaking ground in a month, I like the idea of this. However I bet Matt’s HVAC would cost me over $40k. I need sponsors.
@@markseamans4682 I will sponsor you.
@@jgoody7467 haha!
@@markseamans4682 way over $40k. It would likely be $50k+ plus builder P&O and Supervision. So $65-$75k. I spoke to a builder recently who put in a very similar system on a job to this, but this is even higher end.
I liked the little black boxes with facts...very nice touch. Only mis spoke information was on the bedroom co2 sensor, it will not ramp up the bedroom, it ramps the entire system in all rooms as there is no zone flow capabilities. Flawless presentation other than that one mis spoke, covering/touching all the bases.........excellent job, excellent system !
Shawn, you are absolutely correct. Thanks. There is no "zoning" on this ERV air distribution system. We did review this together after filming, but the note got missed in the editing.
I would strongly advise to think about the pipe cleaning right away : avoid tight 90 deg turn and regular acces to inlet pipes. Otherwise you might start to have allergy problems after 5 years. I m hvac engineer from Belgium.
How do you clean the semi-flexible ducting?
Giles B they are smooth inside duct cleaning machine for small ducts
Filtration and Maintenance ever 3 months at the HRV/ERV will help keep the supply air clean
@@Floreypottery thanks, I've got a few 90 degree bends but mostly on the extract ducts.
You cant get mold because of the MERV13 filtration at the entry point and than MERV15 on top of that.
adding this to my ICF plans. Works absolutely perfect with ICF and solving some of the issues there. I planned on a multizone split A/C and heat, or ideally Geotherm if it is possible for the eventual location and my budget. This system is really simple and makes a lot of sense. Frees up planning in so many other ways it pays for itself.
Please do a video this detailed when you install the heating and cooling system you plan on using!
Great video - thanks. Concerning shower-room users forgetting to push the 'boost' switch - the MVHR (aka 'HRV') I'm installing (VentAxia Kinetic BH) here in England has an inbuilt humidity sensor so that the unit goes into 'boost' mode automatically for a selectable time whenever the humidity in the extract air rises. There may also be others that have that feature. One can also wire the light-switches in those wet rooms (via isolators) back to the MVHR so that it runs in 'boost' mode all the while those lights are on.
Would have been beneficial for them to discuss the kitchen exhaust and how the makeup is being handled. This is only the "fresh air makeup system" This really needs to work in conjunction with the rest of the HVAC system. Hopefully that can be covered in another show. Total cost is going to be significant.
no kitchen exhaust in this house. Induction cooktop, so it's not needed. He just puts a return grille in the kitchen as part of this ventilation system instead
@@kevinmacnichol7692 Even without gas cooktops, I'd still want additional kitchen exhaust to handle smoke and smells from cooking.
@@kevinmacnichol7692 An air return in the kitchen is a code violation by the way. And the need for a kitchen exhaust is not based on the type of cooktop but rather for the heat and moisture that is generated as well as the occasions burned food when the cook is not paying attention. Or are you just trolling with the obvious misstatements?
@@BubbleOnPlumb tell that to all the crappy luxury apartment units. Staring at the return vent in the kitchen right now.
Great video. It's awesome when the questions you have floating around in your head, are gradually answered throughout the video. So rare for presentations like this.
Amazing stuff! I appreciate your honesty and openness shown in these videos documenting the "how-to" and the "why" of different technologies implemented into your house. Here in Europe, we also have certified passive houses and even premium passive ones with top energy-saving solutions such as CLT panels used in the assembly of exterior walls, floors, partition walls and roofs walls, passive house doors, passive triple-pane windows with weather-based electrically controlled blinds, wired/wi-fi weather stations with humidity, air pressure and light sensors, green energy from photovoltaic and solar thermal panels, integrated smart meters and KNX-based protocols for remote monitoring and controlling of a variety of appliances such as the geothermal heat pump, ventilation units, room temperature sensors, hydronic systems such as subfloor heating and radiant cooling ceilings, wall-mounted smart switchers and app-based interface for ambient light scenarios, CAT 7/8 structured cabling for connected IoT devices and much much more...there is a growing worldwide tendency to build smart and even energy self-sufficient premium passive residential properties, office buildings, schools, kindergartens and the like....I would love to see some of these smart house solutions integrated into your project. Stay healthy and keep up the good work!
Matt, you nailed it when you brought up wildfire smoke and filtration. Thanks! We're so tired of breathing crap air every summer in CA.
I like that this system works independently from the other equipment. So you could use this if you have a ductless mini split system.
They all have option to be installed independently
This reminds me of an episode of this old house with the camera shots and conversation setup
I was thinking the same.
However, TOH would have added a light to the dark attic and had smoother camera movements, I was getting nauseated from the shaking.
like fake news etc lol
That’s the point
Something needs to be mentioned here - for anyone considering installing an ERV in a vented attic - you're going to want to make sure that attic is well ventilated and that ductwork well insulated. Using the regular uninstulated rigid ductwork is going to fine as long as its housed in a conditioned space. All this seems fairly straightforward, but I do feel like it may get missed if an installer or DIY person isn't considering this.
As someone who lived through 13 broken ribs and 2 collapsed lungs... I can relate. Extra holes SUCK
In situations like this, it's hard to know if they suck, or if they really blow! 😁
Top of the line, looks like a great design in that they took everything reasonable into consideration to make a perfect unit. .75w/cfm is very efficient, it has to maintain proper cfm throughout varying SP's. Only $9.50 month at $.13/kwh.
Just 1 solar panel of 400 Watts can run this system for 10 years or more for free (after the cost of solar panels, Battery, and control system) and still have some extra energy to spare. He said this big system would use about 100 Watts, so about 2,400 Watts a day. The average day is exactly 12 hours, the power you actually get on your panels is equal to about 6 hours of full sun radiation per day. Therefore 1- 400W panel (or 4 - 100W panes for lower price but need more space) would create 400Wx6=2,400W a day. Now, this house has a great large open space for multiple arrays of solar panels systems and since his whole house is running on electricity He can practically run the entire house on solar. He does not even need a battery backup and connects the Panels to his Electric Miters and the power production would be subtracted from his Bill. In some states, if u produce more power than use they would even pay u for the extra energy u give them. Now since he lives in Texas a really hot n sunny state his power production would be even higher, so I would have a backup battery for emergencies since Texas Power System SUCKS! WHY THE F***!!! Texas is the only state in the country that is outside the National Power Grid?
@@nicolascardillo7615 an average day on my planet (called earth) is 24 hrs…
Matt, we start construction on a Passive House in September 2024 in WI. Trying to contact a Zehnder dealer for product and installation. You have a great channel.
Using your videos to inspire my build up here in Canada :) thanks for the great FREE videos!
This is extremely interesting. Such high level engineering. I followed along and understood everything as explained until we got to the proton nebulizing surface area exchange rate cross flow efficiency counter flow combobulator
@Matt Risenger: You mentioned no ventilation penetrations, which is good, except for the Kitchen. Kitchen gases don't just include moisture, but hot grease/oils which break-down into esters that act like paint, they can gum up your ERV/HEV exchanger membrane in no time. Unless you have extreme filtering, don't vent anything in the kitchen to your ERV/HEV (or HRV). Just look at the pipe behind your old range hood and you'll get an idea about how ineffective range hood filters are.
I don't know about Texas code, but it's probable that just using an HEV or HRV, even at max output to vent kitchen, may violate code. The cases I've seen in California do with following exception: Cooking appliance that is in accordance with UL 710B for reduced emissions where the grease discharge does not exceed 2.9 E-09 ounces per cubic inch (oz/in3) (5.0 E-06 kg/m3) where operated with a total airflow of 500 cubic feet per minute (cfm) (0.236 m3/s). Frankly most home kitchen range hoods don't meet code in California, but this is one of those areas where the inspectors are allowed a lot of leeway.
Hope this reaches you in time.
Thank you for that...good info.
yes - microwave with built in "ventilation" are a joke. I put a real hood in over my cooktop an the difference it makes is amazing. And it's not that big a deal to crack a door to get enough makeup air when it's on high. I probably should have some sort of a make up fan but I'm not staying in this house long term and I certainly won't get the investment back. Having sold houses in the past when moving most people are beyond clueless when it comes to infrastructure - all they care about is move in ready :p
Matt is not venting the kitchen hood through the ERV. You're correct...we DON'T do that! ;)
I love watching this next level stuff, and it was clear that Matt was like a kid in a toy store watching this guy demo it
Pricey but impressive, especially that cost of operating. And when you consider that you don't really have to run the a/c as much to provide dehumidification in the south, that can add up to a lot of savings.
Love all your Videos, Big..."FAN" of your HRV Videos, Placed an Intellisense in my house through watching you. Thanks buddy,hope your home is all buttonedup and benefitting from your experiences, take it easy
Matt, curious about some things on this system. What is the monthly electric cost? What is the average filter replacement cost? How would this system work if you wanted to have a fireplace in your house? How would the possible smoke effect the system or would it damage the system?
40 watts/h. Yes if your ofen has a secondary wir from outside by pipe. And normal Filter need 2 20€ /pair
looks like a dream house to me - i suppose my dad would be a little skeptical of a fan and plastic tubes for that price but for me i'd nerd out on it
An impressive system. I wish matt would compare the total cost of something like this versus the traditional ERV with brach ducted system and multiple fart fans in each bathroom. 10-12K plue 5-6K in labor seems like a whole lot compared to the other system that was being used.
Matt Risinger, thanks for sharing this! I appreciate your dedication to clean indoor air. That Gas appliances add the possibility of carbon monoxide is reason ENOUGH to go all electric ⚡️
Gas heating is far far cheaper than electric and likely more environmental too depending on the source of your electricity
Looks like a very good system, definitely important on a house built this tight. Would love to see the TAB contractor's ( third-party , must be third party to eliminate any conflicts of interest) results when his house is completed.TAB = testing, adjusting and balancing ( it is an actual trade with certification used mainly in the commercial and industrial building industry). With the covid virus TAB technicians are in very high demand right now, the mechanical engineers for hospitals and school are currently demanding a much higher air turnover rate with more make-up air. Good for my industry ( gas utility), bad for the customer ( higher utility bills). Currently in Germany all schools are mandated to open all windows for 10 to 15 minutes every hour ( they turned the heating system off and open all windows, after 10 or 15 minutes they close the windows and turn the heating system back on for 1 hour and repeat.). I can't wait till this covid virus thing is over.
Couple things I wish you would have covered. 1.) How does it interact with your AC/Heat unit if at all. 2.) How do you handle positive and negative pressure zones in rooms. I notice your pumping air into rooms without a exhaust which would tell a novice like me that is pressurizing that room. For tight houses, I want it as balanced as possible I would think to keep from blowing or sucking air where I dont want it too. As always thanks for content and God bless.
Jeff , I think the concept is for the positive room to push air through the negative pressure rooms where you want to exhaust. Such as the bath rooms, kitchen and laundry room. So instead of one return, a house has many, an equal amount to be accurate. This would stop wind tunnel effect in poorly balanced homes. What I cannot see is can you still create AC/heat zones? I want my office to be cooler than my gal wants her craft room.
These airflows are relatively low compared to heating and cooling. The systems operate independently. And the pressure differentials between rooms are enough to change the air, but easy enough to flow around/under closed doors. Supplying fresh air to bedrooms and living rooms and extracting from wet/stinky rooms keeps the air in the whole house clean without any noticeable drafts.
In the UK you definitely have the inlet and outlet on the same wall, avoids all sorts of balance problems from the wind, not sure why you'd set it up differently - solar gain?
I have added filters on each exhaust vent to protect the ducts. After 6 years, my ducts are still perfectly clean.
Great video Matt. Glad to see these really great systems getting the attention they deserve.
Fantastic video. In a future video could you go over how you will manage your dryer? Venting, make up air, special location if any, special door/windows if any, etc?
impressive product, hopefully, they will engineer a more compact system for the Chinese market. I don't think my 250m2 apartment has the equipment room to fit an amazing system like this.
lol 250m2 is huge, this is probabaly made in china already.
I just installed a Multistack ERV in Manhattan for a new 8 unit building, built to passive house and LEED standards. Amazing indoor air quality thus far and low energy costs.
Really liked everything/all of this - great job Matt! I learned so much. Thanks buddy. .. & Chris of course!
I watched the video hoping that the topic of kitchen exhaust would be taken care of. I want to have plenty of BTU of cooking power, but want to know how to handle getting the wok smoke and other serious air concerns handled. Thank you for the content!
@Matt -->Please follow up on your next videos how this system ties in with Bathroom exhaust and more importantly dryer (heat pump system) and stove vents (separate system to some how save energy, maybe?) Great videos, keep them coming.
It doesn't tie in. It completely replaces any bathroom exhaust fan.
@@retartedfreak Does it also replace the exhaust fan in the kitchen or is this separate?
@@wkellander i would think it is separate. IDK 100%.
Matt does a minor explanation from 4:20-5:25, and the installer guy explains it at 11:20-12:00. Basically, bathrooms, laundry room, and kitchen that would normally have exhausts/vents/etc will channel through the one "exhaust out" 8 inch duct that is part of the system.
@@trinity1aee So all that greasy air from the stove vent hood is going through that filter that protects the air exchanger from gunking up ? That filter would need constant changing, unless there is another filter in the range hood itself. Also, is the ERV fan going to be able to keep up with a 900cfm stove exhaust fan when it was designed for just 180cfm ? I am pretty sure a stove vent needs to be metal, so those plastic hoses are only for supply fresh air and the exhausts from kitchen and baths are all traditional metal ducts ?
Matt is like a proud father.
Great improvement over all those individual vent fans, and holes. I'm curious about the dryer vent, kitchen hood and the air conditioning. Are they integrated into this system somehow, or are they stand alone? Also it would be nice to see how you get from the attic to the master bath and master bedroom on the first floor. Great videos! The more I watch, the tighter my house gets (and more expensive). I would like to see videos of how your associates, Wade & Jake, and even Steve apply these designs and equipment in zone 5 construction. I'm building in NJ so it's a little different than Austin. Thanks!
Really love the video, the explanation is very easy to understand and follow through! Thank you Matt!!!
MATT! You definitely need to check out the heat pump condenser clothes dryer. They are super effective and efficient and DON’T NEED VENTILATION! These help keep the envelope of the house tight and super efficient.
Oh, and may I please suggest you purchase a gymbal for the camera. It will negate much of the shaky movements. When I was working on my own documentary programs as a cameraman and editor, I used one for a fashion shoot and it helped the image to stabilise greatly. Cheers from Australia mate.
Keep up the good work.
Actually I’ve been testing a Miele heat pump dryer and it’s pretty amazing. Perfectly dry clothes. 45 min run time. No vent to the outside!
I have a Bosch electric condensing ventless dryer. Works great, love not needing a vent.
@@buildshow Hi Matt, I'm in the process of self installing a heat recovery system in the UK. Your price estimates are about the same here too. I've also had a Miele heat pump dryer for 5 years in a small utility cupboard stacked ontop of the washing machine. It works billiantly but I decided to put a dedicated heat recovery extract vent in there to remove the slight tumble dryer smell of hot clothes. Even before intalling MHRV, I liked the fact that I wasnt wasting energy blowing hot air outside.
James Gleason because extra venting work equals cost of equipment and builders time! All saved by not having to need to vent a dryer.
@@JamesBlazen Switzerland has outright banned vented dryers since 2012. Heatpump or electric condensing dryers are the way to go.
Heating up air and then blowing it through clothes and then right outside is very wasteful.
The best part of the system is how it ties in with having such a tight envelope and therefore energy efficiency and great indoor air quality.
That is an awesome system. I do have a question. If say you are having a party or work is being done so lots of doors open and left open for longer than usual, could the system have a mode to run positive pressure while the doors are open? It seems to me that if you tried to go positive pressure but failed, we could assume a door or window is open and just keep the flow on. When it goes positive, switch back to balanced mode and every once in a while try to go positive pressure. This could also warn of envelope failures... Try to go positive pressure at sometime between 3 and 5 am (or whenever you expect very little activity) and if it fails several days in a row, send an alert.
Good question, James. The fans can be set to be positively or negatively balanced up to 15%. The advantages/disadvantages vary from one climate to another. Also, you can temporarily turn off either the supply or exhaust fan.
We love you Matt! I recommend your videos to all my friends.
Thanks Pete!
Great system, very timely info too, been wondering about ventillation systems for tight houses in cold climate. One question, how does rangehood air get dealt with if potential oil and grease gets sucked into the system? Does the range have it's own set of filters?
Great question. I wondered the same myself. Surely there has to be a seperate system with a damper.
@@mtscott
Most hoods will have filters that catch most of the grease.
But a well designed kitchen will have its own makeup air system for tho hood. It doesn't have to be an expensive set up, just a powered duct fan system that brings makeup air in around the bottom of the range. They have solenoids that turn the makeup air supply on when the hood exhaust is turned on.
This was addressed in a more recent video. The range hood is *not* connected to the ERV/HRV. Besides the oil/grease issue, there's just too much air. High flow range hoods do 600-800 cfm. Matt's ERV is under 200 cfm, so it would never be able to handle it. In his house, he has an intake fan (with filter) to balance the range hood, that's powered when the range hood is on.
Thank you Matt. Good job. Have a blessed and safe week to you and your family.
I'm really impressed with this house. This is clearly the future. You only showed the air supplies though. What about the exhausts?
On another note: Have you thought about complete energy self-sufficiency all year round with solar panels and a hydrogen storage system? That would certainly be the icing on the cake.
See 13 minute mark in video, he discusses exhaust.
I was thinking about the same thing, but you'll have those exhausts at each bath, range hood and whatever else you need vented.
Well this discusses how in the north its HRV but still acts as a filtered fresh air.
I always felt that an open widow is the best, but since I have this experience of in home moisture to actual dangerous levels, I feel that legitimizes these types of air movement systems
I have literally been waiting for this video!!! Thank you!
10 months later, I just got a quote from my local Zehnder distributor for an upcoming basically Passive house build. Thanks again Matt for the video!! Next on the list, EAS windows.... Here we go!
I am a son of a house-builder and I can tell you :" I LOVE YOUR VIDEOS".
Awesome unit, How will this regulate the amount of hot air vs cold air when it's unwanted? if the weather is hot i doubt you want warm air coming in then it's butting heads with your HVAC?
This is a great system however I have two concerns:
1 - What is the noise level at the exhaust grille?
2 - Does the Enthalpy filter actualy reduce the humidity from the incoming air?
Love the show, thanks in advance for the answers and your opinion
I install HRV here in Quebec, the cheapest one with install start at around $3000CAD and maybe $3500CAD for a ERV. I think this system is expensive but I like the fact that it auto-balance, your system at $15-20000USD installed is quite expensive but maybe its meant for people with deep pockets, you can usually sell your stuff at higher price to those :o
Where do you get your supplies, from?! I was planning on a retro-fit into an older house here in Quebec, built in 1985, that the guys installed an Air Exchanger in the Attic! I have been looking around to find either someone to give me a cost run down or DIY this thing, but can only find the box store HRV/ERV's and they don't look tempting at all!
@@FelipeSQ04 entry level hrv from venmar, aldes, lifebreath, any hvac company can install those at around 3000. The suppliers doesnt sell to normal people but at Canac, you can get the nektra and its basically a lifebreath
@@SpecialKthx Thanks a lot, I had read that some places only sold for hvac companies, so I thought it made sense to confirm with you. Will try to go through the Renovert program to make this change, since right now the air exchanger in my home is in the Attic just pushing winter cold air inside :D Thanks a bunch!
@@FelipeSQ04 I suspect you have a asthon or a venmar econo/pro
If you have a 2 story house it will be more complicated but a 1 story with basement not finish or with removable tiles will be easier. You might have to sacrifice a corner of a closet tho.
@@FelipeSQ04 you also can check www.epurair.com/en/products/. They are Quebec based company and produce good quality residential ERVs.
Stuff like this is what we need to be code / standard, in the UK the overwhelming majority of new builds ( no matter the cost ) have no MVHR or anything like that. You get a gas fired boiler wet central heating, extractor fan in your bathroom and maybe kitchen, then trickle vents in your windows 😞
I would like to see how the dryer vent is hooked in. I am also curious how the kitchen fan vents through it.
I’ll have a separate system for the kitchen exhaust. I’m using a heat pump dryer so I won’t need a vent
@@buildshow Any particular reason why the kitchen exhaust isn't being integrated with your Zehnder system? I'm very curious how these ERV/HRV systems can integrate that exhaust since they typically require a substantial flow rate but only when called upon. I like the idea of one exhaust penetration for the whole house, I'm just not quite sure how that can be managed with these systems. Also, how are you managing the evaporated moisture from your heat pump dryer? I would think you would still need a vent for that. The heat pump in the dryer is only a heat source to facilitate evaporation of moisture from the damp items within it.
Also,
@@buildshow even if you had a dryer vent, the q600 can adjust supply and exhaust rates in response to the dryer exhaust. by not having a dryer vent, you are putting a big humidity load in your building envelope, and the zehnder system shown does not provide humidity control. so you would have to have mechanical systems (force air conditioning and/or dehumidifier) to provide humidity control.
some people go for a recirculating hood, but a kitchen exhaust is going to work better.
i have a heat pump water heater and considered a heat pump dryer but concluded that it really didn't do much and was pretty much a waste of money.
you definitely don't want the kitchen hood tied to the dedicated outdoor air system. the grease and residue from cooking would gum up the ducts and the filter at the erv. you don't want the dryer vent hooked in either because the filter in your dryer does not capture all of the lint. the only things you want going into the return ducts of the doas are odors.
@@paperwait9611 You make a good point about dryer lint. That would inevitably build up in the ducts, except the Zender duct tubes appear to have a smooth surface finish and the interface with the manifolds also appears quite smooth. The manifold boxes could be problematic though. Not only is there particulate in the dryer vent air but also a lot of moisture and don't forget heat. In the summer time you would not want to transfer that heat to your supply air which an ERV/HRV would do; you'd be fighting your AC system with your ventilation system. The moisture transfer could also certainly be problem if you don't already have a dehumidifier in the system. Like you said an ERV is not a dehumidifier, unless of course the exhaust air has a dew point lower than the incoming air, then the core would condensate...there is a degree of humidity control inherent to an ERV since enthalpy accounts for both sensible and latent heat.
Regarding the kitchen vent, presumably regardless of direct vent or tie in to a residential DOAS (i.e. ERV/HRV) a grease filter should be present. Recirculation vents do not adequately manage odor, smoke, or steam... they have very little benefit at all frankly. That said most kitchen exhaust hoods call for 150-400CFM would could be equally just as large as the ventilation needs of the house. So do you upsized the DOAS to include the kitchen or accept the needs for another vent? Kind of seems like you really need three vents to avoid any problems Kitchen, Dryer, rest of the house. Problem is the DOAS would need to compensate for the Dryer and the Kitchen exhaust with supply air, so you'd still need some kind of tie in or dedicated direct air inlets for those areas, but then you lose efficiency by not tempering that makeup air.
Dude I've never liked build shows on tv your videos are so much more informative than any of that shit!
Wow, $10-12k? I did a dual core Fantech HRV in my house, total install was less than $2000 with all the ducts and it’s the largest unit they make for residential. It wasn’t as plug and play, but that’s a huge markup for plug and play.
100% agree
most of that cost is for stuff *other* than the unit. zehnder accessories are pretty expensive. the q600 also has a maximum capacity of close to 400 cfm, which is probably several times greater than the maximum cfm for your fantech system.
there is also a lot more intelligence in the q600 than there is in the fantech. for example, when the zehnder person in the video said that the tubes were 12 cfm each, he didn't actually know that - it's just a talking point number. the only way that that would possibly be true, is if the total equivalent lengths for all tube runs were the same. the way it works is that you just throw the tubes out there, and you rely on the intelligence of the q600 to figure out the best way to distribute air to them. so they are counting on the q600 to do a kind of automated "manual d" analysis. what they call "commissioning" sounds like a "manual b" type of analysis; it's the kind of thing that you should do in any forced air system.
@@paperwait9611 100% right.
joe rond well I have the SHR 3005r which is rated at 267 cfm. So yes it’s lower cfm, but why would I need more when I rarely run it above low speed anyway? So I could install 2 for less than $4000 total, and have over 100 cfm more. If I wanted, but I don’t want or need. My unit on high can exchange all the air in the envelope of my home every 2.31 hours.
@@christophergruenwald5054 if you're happy with your investment and quality service etc. please enjoy your house.
Stupefying !!! Really set by set guide to make a shed
Will you still be running a separate dehumidifier? I’m putting together my HVAC system for my new house construction and I’m loving your fresh air system
Same question here.
Matt always does this in his builds now. I’d be shocked if he wasn’t running a discrete dehumidifier as this system isn’t really intended for dedicated dehum.
Of course, he is putting all of HVAC+D separate hahaha.
@@CompCrasher86. And it isn't connected to the "H and AC" part of the air system. (A downside really - it should be plumbed right into the dehumidifier input to the recirculating ducted Reverse cycle AC.
I want to see how heating, cooling, and de-humidification is all tied into this system too. I'm not quite sure how those pieces of the puzzle fit together.
In colder climates, even with an HRV, it's recommended to have an exhaust fan in the bathrooms.
In defrost mode during the winter, some HRVs are only recirculating, meaning that thick poo particle air is swirling around inside the hrv system/ house during the entire defrost cycle.
I also think it's better just to quickly chuck air with high excessive moisture content right outside instead of sending it back to the HRV for processing, but that's even arguable.
I also think it's more efficient to quickly run the bathroom exhaust for a shorter period of time in tandem with an HRV.
I think Matt needs a follow up video reminding viewers that his house is in a warm climate where an ERV is called for. The HRV and ERV are two different things, used for different purposes and climates.
All in all, we humans are trying to reach for perfect stability indoors, while the outdoors goes buck wild. It's marvelous we can even reach 70% efficiency with an ERV/HRV.
And like Matt says, if the power goes out...open a window!
Be practical when chasing perfection.
I started reading the comments because I was curious about all the bathroom moisture that is typically exhausted outside will now be allowed to transfer to the supply air in @mattrisinger ‘s new house since it’s an ERV and moisture transfers. Am I understanding this correctly?
Approximately 14:15 the guy states the air is never recirculated, it goes outside.
@@Gamerz00760 That's correct. They're in Texas. But in cold climates you have to recirc or it will freeze up. During the recirc, it is not intaking nor exhausting. In -30 celcius winters such as Canada, recirc is a must to prevent freeze up.
More questions: make up air for a big vent hood? And if we upgraded our 2013 ERV, do we just remove and plug the existing bathroom fans and exhaust system?
I got 1200CFM Kitchen Vent Hood... have yet to install a MUA yet... Does this system compensate for that or is an extra MUA still required? I also use fireplace in winter... so sometime the smoke is terrible in bad burn. Another headache... However, I do like this system.
Why not hook up to existing fans? You can probably even remove the motor and just leave the grill/shell of it
@@MrTiger0002 - The short answer is No.
A 1200 CFM hood should have an exhaust duct of at least 10 inches (12 inches is preferred). That means you'd need a minimum 10" MUA duct. In reality, you'll want the MUA duct to be larger (much larger) to cut down on the inflow air velocity and noise. Both of these base values are larger than the entire EVR system supply capacity. The same would apply to a gas furnace. don't use conditioned air to feed the fire, run an outside supply for the furnace and keep the entire combustion process separated from the living space.
@@valkyriefrost5301 Thank you. Confirms my thoughts.
Matt, I love the content of your channel. I used to build Passive Houses in the northeast. We used Zhender HRVs all the time - they are great products. I'm so glad to see this content getting out to a broader audience.
Now for the constructive criticism - you've GOT to get your camera person a steady cam or gimbal system. I'm getting motion sick with all the fidgeting and adjusting (I've noticed this on other videos too, especially if there's a tour or "let's move around and see this house" component). I mean this with only the best intentions. I love your videos, but nausea is no fun!
it's better than the audio normalization :)
Matt, can’t you use a motion sensor to activate the bathroom fan that activates the countdown power?
Any BAS with door switches and motion sensors will accomplish this for you. HVAC controls and window blinds are also common in a BAS.
Some DIY guys are using raspberry PI’s to accomplish this rather than expensive tridium/niagra proprietary programming and controllers.
TJ Challstrom Humidity sensor won’t close when you just want to take a shit in the toilet. Make up air would have to be balanced with the same cfm as the fart fan. Wouldn’t want to create negative pressure in the space and pull more air away from the other zones.
None of the other duct runs have motorized dampers on them. Constant speed fan at the ERV.
TJ Challstrom all you need is a thermostat with a cap tube connected to the hot water line to control the fan. The water line heats up when hot water is used thus turning on the fan anytime the bath water is used. Low voltage to. Add a 15 minute time cut off delay and it will run 15 minutes after shower is stopped. You’ll never have to worry if someone forgot to turn on the exhaust fan again. It’s simple
Matt, in Canukistan our building code calls for a 'principal fan switch', usually located in a hallway or other common area. It's linked with a bathroom exhaust fan, usually the largest CFM unit, and fires a relay in parallel with that fan when either switch is turned on. This relay closes terminals R and G in the furnace through a jumper.
Every time that particular fan is used in the bathroom, which is several times per day, or someone uses the principal fan switch, the house has air changes exchanges. We usually use timers for one or both.
Is the air feeling stale? Just hit the 30 minute button on the principal fan switch.
33:26 While some may be concerned about the Zehnder cost set up (or operating costs - which are really not bad at 2.4Kw/ per day) I can see the Zehnder system taking place of additional mini split units that would have otherwise been needed throughout the house. So yes, this unit costs a bit more, but the HVAC bill is going to be half!
edit kWh - Energy rather than power. NB. This isn't an AC unit - it is additional, for air quality, rather than "comfort".
@@kadmow I know that an ERV system is for air quality. My point is that when you have such an efficient air distribution system such as this Zehnder ERV, you eliminate the need for additional mini split units throughout the home because this system will continually distribute air around the house.
@@JamesBlazen I understand that. Matt has already stated that he will be utilizing mini split heads in his home. My only point was that this Zehnder system offsets the cost of installing mini splits in; say, every room, which I've done. Next time, I would consider the Zehnder option and save the cost of at least half the mini splits. The bonus is getting the fresh, filtered, heat recovered air that the ERV provides. (A requirement anyways on a house that is under 1.0 ACH.)
@@JamesBlazen Energy recovery. That includes heat and A/C
Phenomenal video! Thanks for this and so many other highly informative contributions.
As a duct cleaner I like this. Another system to get paid to clean.
Sounds like this would eliminate the standard trunk and branch system. Just a different type of cleaning.
You'll need to invest in a couple of 3 inch (75mm) brushes. ;-)
Not really. Why would you clean the exhaust ducts?
Matt, could we have another episode on "Dryer Venting"? I am interested in how you are doing this. Following your build.
was waiting and waiting for the talk about the exhaust fan in the kitchen does that air get recycled out the unit - if it does how are you trapping the grease particles.
Matt answered in another post - no that dirty air ( and, strangely - makeup) - is separate.
While the system may be auto balancing to always maintain that 180cfm, it's going to take quite a bit of back and forth tinkering to get each vent in each room dialed in. As you dial in the vent in one bedroom to say 10 cfm, it's going to effect the flow at ever other vent in the house by some amount. As you work your way around the house and dial in each vent to the flow you want, the vent you started at is not going to be 10cfm anymore because of the adjustments made elsewhere. Perhaps it's a negligible amount and who cares, but I could see a person having to do a few complete cycles of adjusting at the vents before the effect is no longer measurable. Seems like a great system though.
It's probably analogous to a "pump-up" leach field. Start out with everything wide open. (In this configuration, most of the flow will be through the shortest duct run.) Then, beginning with the shortest run, turn down the vent until it's flowing like you want it. You may not have to turn down the vents on the longest runs at all. Only duct runs with similar drag would need to be adjusted simultaneously.
Hi Matt, I have questions. I love this system and wanted one forever!! 1) So your dryer and kitchen vent do not vent to the outside? What about cooking grease and dryer lint? I would think you would still want venting to the outside for those. How are you cleaning those particular contaminates 2) In your experience would this system eliminate dust like a clean room? Could you do a test on this once you get the system up and see what level of dust and pollen accumulates inside your home. 2b) In your experience, does HEPA filter systems added to HVAC system remove dust and pollen at an effective, almost clean room like level. I would love to see an episode surrounding these questions. Thanks.
I second this.. I'm also interested in your kitchen vent set up. I was thinking of just having a smaller hood vent and fan for an induction cook top but if I can avoid it with a system like this then thats a massive plus. I want my house to have minimal vents due to being in a wildland urban interface (high fire zone).
For the dryer I'm thinking of having a vent installed for future proofing but sealed and use a heat pump dryer. I'm curious if you are doing the same.
Thanks!
Matt, love the ventilation system episode. But what happens for those of us that live in the desert SW. I have both traditional HVAC with central air and an evaporative cooler system. The AC is great in the couple months we have higher humidity where the evap doesn’t perform that well and at night when the AC is very quiet. But an evap system is all about pouring a ton of outside air into the house and pushing it right out again through a slightly opened window or door. Yes I can run a house on purely refrigerated system but the cost savings of the evap system is enormous, it simply works amazingly well. In a nut shell we here in the desert would be throwing the fresh air out the window. Big expense for a system that would only be useful during the heating months. Also why isn’t the system integrated with your HVAC and eliminate double the ducts running to all your rooms?
To save anyone else from doing the math about how much 100W will cost you a month, given avg. Texas electricity price of $0.11/kWh.
730 hours * 100 watts / 1000 * $0.11/kWh = $8/mo
While this is a useful calculation, you need to pro rate the cost of the system and the maintenance of the system over its life. Additionally, if you're considering putting this in an existing home, what are your cost going to be to make the home tight to take advantage of the system.
Minus the cost savings what would be the delta? still cost (- out of pocket) or benefit (+ in pocket).
Yea that's a great savings but what the marketing wank and builders don't tell you. The huge upfront investment to buy it and the high cost maintain/ repair them you WiLL NEVER makes your money back.
I work and install these systems daily and I would never want this in my home or a ultra tight home. Cost of one of these systems I can buy 2-3 of a high quality mid range efficiency system that doesn't break the bank to repair or run. I can actually make my money back
Great information. Looks like a promising product. Would be great to see a future revision support the Matter standard.
I was wondering about pleasant open-window weather. Does the ventilator still need to run then?
It strikes me that there are several temperature levels where different ventilation might be desirable. There is a level where it is so pleasant, we just want the windows open and then any fan becomes unnecessary. Then there is a level where sometimes it is pleasant outside but hotter inside, even with the windows open. Then we want something to draw in air from outside perhaps simply through the windows. We don’t need energy recovery; merely need fresh air pulled in and the hot air from radiant sunlight pushed out. No need to exchange heat or humidity: simply exchange air.
Does this appliance address these issues? Or am I failing to appreciate what it does in such circumstances already?
How well do these systems work with cooking fumes / oil particles produced while cooking? How about laundry dryers? Obviously can't just vent that inside the house, especially if it's a gas dryer.
Also how about the moisture produced by bathrooms, could that lead to mold/moisture issues in the ducts? Lots of questions and while the idea of an airtight home and clean air sound great - still giving me a lot of pause.
Also how do the costs add up? Sure there's that extra "$5k-12k" on the system itself (forget if that included labor or not), but there's also the upkeep. Ok, that's 100w used at all times with the fans running? That's like $113/yr just in energy for that. PLUS he said to check/change filters every quarter (those look like special filters... I'm sure those costs add up too). And how long do we expect these units to last? 15 years? 30 years? Longer?
While it may make a heating/cooling bill a little cheaper and the house a little more comfortable and healthy to live in, the pure math just doesn't seem to add up to me.
How much of a difference in the HVAC bill would we even expect with all this extra insulation and airtightness?
If it IS indeed more expensive in the long run, it would be good to know how much $ I'm paying to achieve this level of physical comfort and air quality.
Add some solar and over 20 years the costs go away - then we may need to replace the solar - at costs equivalent of a new AC unit. (Thinking about it - HVAC will likely never have a similar warranty to solar panels, so the solar is probably a better complement to "zero net cost")
Good points, Colin. An ROI could be estimated using specific flow rates and temperature differentials as long as you're comparing it to the same ventilation rate using bathroom fans (have to compare it to something). We have examples of this we could share with you. But the reality is that most homes are very poorly ventilated, making the ROI on heat/energy recovery difficult. And beyond that, attempts are now being made by health researchers to quantify the lost productivity and medical costs that can be traced back to poor indoor air quality. Should that be part of the ROI?
@@christophersmith1894 I'd say so.
@@christophersmith1894 . Indeed. Historical metrics will likely show a net cost (with conventional power) with overcomplicating HVAC. -A simple gas burner in a tin shed probably beats any sealed, insulated, controlled-ventilation McMansion. Comfort -that's subjective -spend what you want on being comfortable.
What you describe as "poorly ventilated" is actually poorly sealed yes no cost saving untill the envelope is "controlled"-freely passively ventilated, whenever and wherever the wind blows. Poorly ventilated is an Icebox with the lid on.. have a laugh. It gives me a chuckle too.
I figured it was your boyfriend
Excellent episode, great information! Thanks!
"... Check it every quarter..." Yeah, sure, ok. I'll check on it in two years, thanks man.
Yes, this one my biggest pet peeves - these are expensive-to-design ($3-$5K), expensive-to-install (these complex HVAC systems can easily run $50K) and expensive-to-maintain (filters cost hundreds every year - IF you even know they need to be replaced).
These are 1%er systems or virtue-signalling systems, not Average Joe Homeowner systems. Granted, Matt's audience isn't Joe Homeowner, but it bugs me that there's no acknowledgment of this - despite the cost consistently being a major concern in the comments.
@@krinohs I'm lazy by nature. If it is hard to get at I'm going to put it off. Having a beautiful system in the attic means to me out of sight out of mind. Also if I followed all of manufacturer service intervals my life would consist of nothing but work and servicing all my ______ and sleep. Ps. It is wed and I'm going to hit my 40 hours in about an hour and I have alot more to get done before Sunday. This is more than normal but not out of the ordinary for me or my co-workers.
@@krinohs You seem like a fun person....
You ever heard of a joke? Yeah, I know how to, and, more importantly, do preventative maintenance on my major appliances. I was just making a J-O-K-E about it - Because there are people who would do it.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb Interesting that a system like this is considered "exclusive" or "for the rich". In Estonia (where I live), heat recuperating ventilation systems are pretty much standard for every new apartment and house built, irrespective of the cost of the place. You pretty much have to install them if you want to meet minimum energy efficiency requirements. A lot of these systems actually come with control units that will remind you when to change the filters and it's more like once to twice per year not every quarter. The filters themselves are usually between €20-30 so you're looking at maybe 20-60€ per year in filter costs, depending on how often you change them. What you get in return (at least in a cold climate) is huge savings in heating costs because most modern systems are at least 80% efficient, many have an efficiency rate over 90%. A house or apartment building with natural ventilation will lose 20-30% in heat via exhausted air.
Even old apartment buildings that are being renovated will have heat recuperating ventilation systems fitted. You can watch a Zehnder system being fitted to an old apartment building here: ua-cam.com/video/9MvpRtf9Pqg/v-deo.html
@@krinohs thanks for winning a bet between my wife and I. I said I can say 1 thing mid comment say something else and someone will call it out. I got lunch out of the deal, So thanks
This is great. I have so many questions because of how fascinating and unfortunately uncommon the tech is in today’s homes.
What’s the maintenance? Does the core need to be cleaned?
Is that prefilter going to get overloaded? I’m thinking pollen vacuum on the side of your house.
You run multiple duct runs to each room to set your max airflow and then you fine tune it with the registers?
When flow hood the register, won’t the self adjusting throw off all the other registers you just adjusted?
If its in boost for somebody taking a shower won’t every other room be boosted as well?
Whats the strategy to prevent a “draft” feeling from the cooler fresh air? Here in the north the outside air can be 70* cooler in peak winter.
Will airflow between intake and exhaust rooms be enough to open/close doors?
I love the approach you’re taking here and I hope it takes off. I can’t wait to see this integrate with smart home and IoT products.
I wonder how long semi-permeable membranes in ERVs will last - in a jacket some break down within 5-10 years. A HRV has more durable partitions - but no vapour permeability
Pretty sure the core needs to be replaced at some point also. Typically you can vacuum them at least, but unsure if that can be done with this one? I expect the core to be expensive to change.
The core should be removed and cleaned every year. Vacuum the edges and run fresh water through it (warning, though, not all ERV cores are water washable like this one).
Our filters should be checked like almost all filters on a quarterly basis.
Yes, the Luna diffusers provide adjustment to compensate for the varying duct lengths.
There can be a couple iterations of adjust registers, but the fact that this Q600 ERV adjusts automatically to maintain the total flow helps make the process a lot easier.
Yes, boost is for the entire system (there's no "zoning").
High heat recovery and relatively low airflows are sufficient to avoid cold drafts.
Yes, the airflows in each room are usually low enough to move freely around/under a closed door.
Christopher Smith thanks for taking the time to answer.
Great episode, only thing you didn't cover was how the life expectancy and guarantees compare to the alternatives. e.g. Typical bath fan lasts what 5 years so long term costs are probably lower for Zehnder?
Nope, didn’t cover my passive solar home in CA!
I was just thinking that. 30k system to save $20 a month and replaced after a few years? First world solutions
@@jl9678 where did you come up with 30k? he mentioned 10k, but that is for a pretty large house
@@BrianKrahmer
10-12k is just the equipment package. If I know anything about hvac it's that the labor is usually 1 to 2x the equipment price. Hence the 30k
@@jl9678 if you're willing to pay 20k to install a system like that, drop me a line. i'll fly over from europe just to do that. at a labor rate of $100/hr, you're talking 5 weeks of work. i'd be disappointed if i couldn't install that system in less than a week. i'd honestly estimate 3 days
These are common in Alaska where new construction is very tight. A fresh air heat exchange system is a must or you'll get moisture buildup in the house.
Do you still use a separate range hood or does that tie in to the HRV as well?
Range hoods can not be exhausted through an HRV/ERV potential for a very dangerous situation. Hood fans can be paired with a powered makeup air system... I believe Matt has so video regarding this situation
Naaaaa man. What’s the worst that could happen. Straight weld up some grease duct and call her good bud!! Whats ASHRAE???
Don't forget that your doors must have a gap at the underside to allow for the flow of air between rooms and bathrooms/kitchen
Hey Matt, could you make a video that shows how this will integrate with your Mitsubishi heat pumps? I am not understanding fully, is there an air-handler and rigid ducting, or is *this* your ducting? Thanks so much for your videos, I am definitely implementing this in our build.
This ERV is installed independent of the home's HVAC system. So it does not integrate. Quote from Zehnder "It is essential that the ventilation and HVAC systems are separate and do not share ductwork. This ensures proper airflow rates and energy efficiency". So basically the homeowner will be paying about 2X.
@@sitechca70 How does this not suck all the heated or cooled air out of the rooms and send it outside?
@@skmetal7 That's exactly what the ERV does. Look up how it works. I'm no expert here, merely a residential homeowner who has looked into the benefits of one and decided it wasn't worth it for my house and climate.
@@skmetal7 just look at the whole video, it is explained.
Matt I don’t think in the bathroom that running the air exhaust a little all the time will get all the steam out of the room when taking a hot shower. I’ve thought about putting a thermostat on my hot water line to shower that would turn the fan on and off just when hot water was detected in the water line with a time delay cut off of 15 minutes so after hot water was cut off it would continue for 15 more minutes. You would never have to worry if your kids forgot to turn on a fan anymore it would all be controlled by the hot water flowing through the water line and can even turn the fan to a higher speed. It’s 24 volts or even 12v dc to be safe. Think about my idea and maybe you can use it sometime. The thermostat cap tube would just wrap around the water line so no water would ever contact the cap tube. It’s a simple design. Good luck and thanks for your videos 👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸
Even simpler would be to install a humidity sensor in each bathroom.
My question with an erv is when you’re exhausting humid air after a shower is the erv not transferring the humidity to the fresh air, therefore defeating the purpose of exhausting humid air to start with
the cooler air from the inside cools the air coming in. that causes the humidity to drop out. the humid air from the bathroom goes out
...and these intermittent shower events are just a blip when you're using continuous ventilation and considering the whole volume of the house. Your point is valid in that there is some quantity of humidity staying in the house with moisture recovery, but it's very short-lived in the scheme of things. The continuous exhaust from the bathroom long after the shower is over keeps the bathroom mold-free and that perpetuates good air quality in your house.
Matt, Thanks for the informative videos ...... I learn a lot from them.
On the dryer vent, how do you keep it from clogging your filters with lint?
It's not connected to the Zehnder - only air to the room -
ArthurDentZaphodBeeb but he mentions the exhaust from the laundry room and how its connected.
@@bryce4071 That would be for an exhaust fan in the laundry room not for the clothes dryer itself. The amount of heat, moisture, and lint in the dryer exhaust would overwhelm the system very quickly and would be a disaster. While they did not specifically get into the dryer exhaust, that would have to be run separately to exhaust directly to outside air. The Zehnder system would presumably take care of the makeup air needs when the dryer was in operation.
I’m actually surprised to learn people have exhaust vents in laundry rooms. If its all being taken care of by the dryer exhaust, why? Or is it humidity from the washer maybe?
This would be a heat pump dryer. Smaller and more expensive than a conventional dryer.
I installed S&P ERV unit, was basically free to install with new HVAC system and was just over $1k for EnergyStar certified unit with those DC motors and controller
So is this the heat and ac all in one or just something for ventilation/fresh air? This is a pretty neat system
Just fresh air/vent. He mentioned he also has a mitsi AC system.
It’s a great video really liked it, it’s answer so many questions about ventilation, I only have one what about kitchen stove venting. Hope you cover that question soon.
Coming soon. Separate system for kitchen exhaust and make up air
Speaking of emergency power... are you going to have your panel setup to have a gen-set run all these critical systems when the power is out from utility? Also, would be installing a permanent natural gas gen-set?
this is an important question. I'd like to know the answer as well.
Not sure ERV/HRV is a critical system, just open a window.
Installing this for sure in our new house.
If I can’t smell farts from the bathroom, 2 minutes later in the kitchen, it hasn’t been done right. 🤪
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏻👊🏻 ..... Would be great if in addition to being able to add CO2 sensors, if there were compatible humidity sensors that also worked with this system, this way you could put them in the bathrooms and have it go into boost mode automatically.
Hey Fred, this is possible! Any device with a 0-10V output can be used with our systems. And we have RH sensors available. However, continuous ventilation ("low and slow") is so effective that a lot of automated fan speed changes aren't really that necessary.