PMF Poor Mans Fiberglass Removal from Camper after Three Years
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- Today im removing the pmf poor mans fiberglass on my tiny homemade camper. Im building a new camper and recycling the old ones parts . I wanted to remove the pmf to see how it held up and find out if it did its job protecting the wood.
Having owned several leaking campers, trailers and motorhomes (two of the MHs were brand new) over the years, all with leaking roofs or windows, I'm sold on DIY PMF. Watching you tear of the beautiful art work was almost painful. Thanks for your dedication to helping the next guy. You're appreciated, brother.
I took plenty of flack for tearing it up but I was curious and I like to recycle haha. Thanks for stopping by .
Thanks a ton for these videos. I built a 12x7 camper using this method. I was able to avoid a few of these pitfalls specifically because you posted about them.
I was careful with the wall to roof seams to avoid your issue.. overlapped the wall around 4 inches, and then cut the roof canvas flush to the edge. The seam is basically invisible.
Also avoided the overhang on the roof to floor joint based on your video.
1 year so far and not 1 drop inside the camper at all.
Awesome glad it helped . Sounds like it’s gonna last a long time .
Thank you for showing it after 3 years , you did a good job and convinced me to use this as a camper exterior , and as far as those who said your waisting your time , they like to waist money instead and buy crap , i on the other hand would rather save a penny and do things myself , even if i fail ive learned , what do you learn when you waist money on store bough , well you learn you cant trust big companies , seems the more a company makes the more they try and rip you off , ive seen where rv companies overlap the botton aluminum on top of the skin comming down from the roof ,so when it leaks it goes into the cabin and rots the wall , instead of overlaping the wall over the lower aluminum like a shingle on a roof , then they cover the overlap with trim so when the smallest of leaks starts you dont know till the wall sill rots away , im building my own camper for this reason alone , cant trust anyone now , there used to be a time where we put pride in our products and cared what people said about such products but somehow we only care about how much we save , well you get what you pay for isnt even a thing now , pay top dollar and still get treated like shit , this is how we do it now ....
I owned campers for over 20 years , 2 pop up campers , a24 and 26 ft bumper pull and last was a 32ft 5th wheel , which the roof caved in right down the center and the insurance company told me they weren’t paying for it , that I was more than welcome to get a lawyer , but they wouldn’t pay . The others all leaked and rotted. I’ll never buy another factory made camper . I will build a bigger one some day though . Thanks for stopping by
Looking at your channel , nice looking sportster . I bought a brand new 99 custom , drove it home and tore the engine down . Rebuilt it with cams heads and other goodies. It was fast as hell. Drive it around for 2 days breaking in the motor then took off half way across Texas and back to a rally. My friends thought I was waisting time and money then also haha . I showed them lol
@@ArmadilloJunction thanks , my channel has alot of vintage sewing machines but i plan on doing more on my bike and i have a few other projects i plan to show ...
Even though time has passed my suggestion might be helpful going forward. When removing TB2 a heat gun will soften the glue and the painters cloth should peel away.
Well heck ,, wish I’d thought of that . Done it plenty times with stickers haha
The Art work looks good. Impressive of a teardown after years of use. We see a lot of builds but not many long term reports.
That’s kinda what I was thinking , my wife and friends said I was crazy haha,,
Good demonstration. Considering this is the method used to cover horse carriages for as long as they were built, I would say the method is sound. Thanks for being willing to show just how durable this covering can be.
After reading its history I was sure it must work . But curiosity got the best of me . Thanks for stopping by
Exactly. This is how they skinned the first airplanes.
I built a 5x8 myself and used PMF myself. Its been through over 12 inches worth of rainfall this year. You and couple other were the encouragement to go pmf way. Thanks again!
awesome,, it works no doubt about it ! ive had 2 people tell me they built kayaks using it with no problem .Thanks for stopping by
@@ArmadilloJunction thanks for posting! Can't wait for the new build!
My faith in PMF has always been strong, now it’s even stronger!
the stuff worked for sure !
actual real elbow grease expert > trolling keyboard expert every time!! thanks for the no punches pulled video! much appreciated sir!
Thanks for stopping by . I read in theory it worked but how else are you going to know for sure . I had to see for myself . I’ll be building a bigger one soon so I figured why not .
Thank you that was a MAJOR confidence boost.
thats the reason i tore it apart. im building a new one and just wanted to see how well it really worked .
Duckworks sells fiberglass used for boat hulls. It works really well, and is available in different weights. Perfect for a small camper.
Thank you for this video it’s exactly what I was looking for, 3 years in the elements , Sun etc.
😊
Glad it helped . I was curious myself .
I been considering a foam bones build on aluminum flatbed 7 x12, been contemplating exterior. SOLD completely on pmf
I would use it again for sure . I’d just make sure I sealed all the way around bottom next time
Glad to see … I’m building a camper with poormans fibreglass .. I have about 20 videos so far , and after a few hiccups, the pmf has gone on smoothly …. I’m glad to see yours held up so well
It really does work well , and if you have patience “which I don’t have a lot of “ you can make it look smooth and real nice . I used it on My new camper build for the roof only this time .
Yes.. I did my whole body so far, still need to do the roof .. the roof is curved with an overhang.. somewhat gypsy vardo inspired… I used very rough canvas and actually love the coarse texture .. it fits my build …
Amen, to this, brother! I will NEVER spend money on purchasing one of those leaking monstrosities made by those money hungry companies, when I can build something I know will last. Praise God! Thank you for this video!
Yes I owned 6 rv’s from pop ups to 5th wheels . My last was a 5th wheel and the roof caved in and insurance would. It cover it , claimed it was my fault and neglect . I swore I’d never buy another. Plus we have had lots more fun with the tiny campers and met lots of people . People always want to look or ask about them .
Most excellent excavation of a most amazing DIY product - many thanks for sharing
@@SmalltimR thanks for stopping by .
Thanks for the analysis! It takes courage to show where you did well AND not as well.
Thanks for stopping by . I figured I wasn’t the only one curious how well it works .
Wow I hate seeing you break it all down after watching you put it together ❤
On to bigger and better
Thank you very much for this video and your others! I'm going to be doing a home built camper and you've given me proof of concept and some very important tips on what not to do!!!
Glad it helped . I learn something every build .
I just learned of poor man's fiber glass today I must say I'm impressed
And now I'm going to look up your build video...
Hows it going , if you come back to the channel im building a new one right now , a little different design this time .
You may of saved me a LOT of money with your hard work and sacrifice
Love the mountains on the inside and out
Thanks , I actually kept the pieces and made wall hangings for garage out of some sections haha
Probably use flex seal on the edges of the plywood to create a waterproof seal on the ends of the plywood and joints and then do the PMF that you did for the rest of it. Maybe paint on truck bed liner for the underside and near the fender wells. Use plywood instead of OSB for the floor. Seems like you have the right idea by your comments on your next build. Good luck on it and look forward to seeing it happen. Great tips I'll definitely be taking into consideration on my build. Thanks for the content!
Thanks for the ideas and stopping by . Have a good new year
@@ArmadilloJunction thank you. Hope you have a great New Year too!
Wow thank you for showing this my minds made up i am Using this method. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Thanks for stopping by glad it helped
Nice job. I have made up my mind now, to try PMF on my first build.
It definitely works , I’m still using it for the roof on this second build
If done correctly it will last the test of time. The old boat boats are living proof.
I really like this idea and it’s low maintenance yet more or less infinitely repairable and that’s a great combo
It’s a really tough flexible solution, thanks for stopping by.
They've been using the PMF on boats for years, so why would it not be good for a camper trailer coating?! I've seen too many products made out of fiberglass that cracked over time which tells me it may be stronger initially, but is also more brittle and doesn't flex as much as PMF.
That’s kinda why I made the videos , I was trying to prove A point for all the nay sayers. Thanks for stopping by
@Armadillo Junction the PMF is AWESOME!!! Easy to work with and environmentally friendly!!!😁👍🏻 Did you only put one coat of Titebond, then canvas, then paint?🤔 I think creating a type of bathtub base first with a rim and wrapping prior to prior creating the upper and overlapping would create an excellent seal!!! Saw your stuff on Pinterest, came to UA-cam, watched and subbed!!! Thanks for the most excellent information!!!😁👍🏻
I used one thick coat first then diluted coats on top to soak into fabric . I have a video showing how I did it
Y’all almost have me convinced to do PMF on my camper build. Now I have to search a source for some waterproof glue.
It for sure works , I used tite bond 2 . It seems to be what’s used most . Good luck with your project.
Local hardware store should have it and if I were you, I'd pay a bit more for the Titlebond 3, Titlebond 2 is technically water resistant while Titlebond 3 is actually waterproof. With that being said, you can see how well the water resistant stuff does.. just imagine how well the waterproof glue will do haha
@@masonblackofficialwhat I have found in my research is that TB II will bond to itself and can be thinned with water. I have read where TB III will not bond to itself as well when doing multiple coats or working in sections of a project. Most videos and recommendations for PMF use TB II.
Excellente work my friend...
Looks 👍 👌
Just get that bottom detail correct with over lap metal flashing with a drip edge so the water will not wick into the floor plywood.
I saw in another video, that the only issue was not covering the rear edge with the overhang. I've been juggling aluminum, coloured vinyl, fiberglass etc., etc. I'm going to do the PMF, no fumes, no resins, cheaper, easier, more 'working-time' and I'm thinking that it's far better for the environment. Thank you! Subbed.
Thanks , I used it for my new build again for the roof . If you take your time and sand and use a good tight woven fabric/ canvas you can really make it look smooth and nice . I always rush stuff haha
great video, thanks for the lesson.... what was the original PMF materials? how many layers and coats?
look back on my channel i have a demo on how and materials i used.. Thanks for stopping by
I was just starting to watch that video when I saw this one. So I'm watching this one first.
ua-cam.com/video/z7F1pf0c0Kw/v-deo.html
Impressive how that help up so well
Everyone tried to stop me or sell it lol . I had to see for myself how well it worked
I may do my build like i saw a truck camper build. He built the frame located a few bolting spots on his pan, built it as one unit then set the whole thing on the chassis.
I stated to make one that was removable so I could use the trailer for other things ,
Damn it man that's some tough stuff awesome video thank you so much for the update
You could give PMF classes to all the keyboard warriors that doubted you. That worked great and you have proof
i think that original video has over 100K views . As you could imagine on youtube ive had my share of comment trolls haha .
I remember this build .
Haha , just camped in my new build . I’ll have a final build video soon
Almost ANIY construction is better than current camper construction. After ripping apart several campers with holes and wood rot, I saw how poorly they are constructed. I elected to replace the roof with a metal pitched roof that will no doubt never leak and make the camper last another 50 years.
I agree , campers are terribly built and way overpriced for the quality you get.
Thanks to your videos im fiberglassing my new build 12 foot travel trailer today. Thank you for taking the time to do what you did.
Thanks for stopping by !
I will be building a truck camper...with pmf now. Proof is in the pudding.. BTW you should email the link to this video to every single one of the people that called you crazy. "Crazy is as crazy does" -Forrest Gump Thanks for showing us how it held up.
Thanks for stopping by . The process definitely works . Haha it would be a long list of emails . Good luck on your build .
Thank you for sharing. When you glued down the canvas, did you apply additional glue over the canvas prior to paint? Sounds like yours was the best I've seen so far. Thanks again for your time.
Yes I did . If you haven’t found it already I made a video showing how it did it on a small test piece. Thanks for stopping by
Thanks for your tear down report
I caught plenty of flack for doing it . But I was curious how well it actually worked . Glad you liked it
Very nice. My question is, if I use a thinner plywood to save weight for my truck bed camper would the PMF hold up just as nice as this? Taking it a step further, how will it hold up if I use XPS foam instead of plywood? thank you for showing this. Any idea what the weight of the box is minus the trailer?
I guessed 400 -500 lbs . A sheet of 3/4 inch plywood is around 75 pounds . That’s 5 sheets plus screws and paint etc. you may want to research campers made of foam . I’m pretty sure I saw some on here and the teardrop camper message boards . They usually call them a foamy . A UA-cam friend just built one for his motorcycle. His channel is lone star rider .
Oh and yes it would be fine on a thinner plywood
I think I would try a thinner plywood but first perhaps build a fairly lightweight steel frame to attach the pieces to!😁👍🏻
You might want to do some material testing to double check any specific combination, but XPS is actually a fairly popular material for small campers.
Realized I hadn’t subbed yet, so I hit it! You’ve been a great resource! Thanks for the videos!
awesome ,, got the trailer stripped bare today , Now i just have to decide which direction im going ,, thats the hardest part on a build haha
Well said Brother! Most RV's seem to be JUNK!
Yep , that’s what started this camper building hobby . I owned a couple bumper pulls , a couple pop ups and my last was a 5th wheel . All junk , when the roof collapsed on the 5th wheel I said no more !
Looks like it worked good
It worked out real good , the technique has been around forever in boat and plane building but most don’t know about it . Lots of people left comments it was a stupid idea and worse lol . Had to show em
RV companies don't build they assemble, and they do it as fast as possible.
I’ve watched videos of it and it’s crazy . I have torn a couple apart and couldn’t believe how they are put together.
Wouldn't it be better to have the sides go outside the trailer box and go past the lip couple of inches.
Pretty sure he talked about that in the video.
Use latex paint…paint item heavily, put on material and immediately repaint over the material…
Does the glue coverage have to be perfect, do I need to be really meticulous about every square inch, or will the paint help in the areas where the glue is thinner? The canvas really soaks it up and it’s hard to tell just how well every spot is covered.
@@jon2901 I’d say it would be best to have full coverage but I could see a few spots on mine that didn’t appear to adhere and it was fine
i went under my camper 2 inches with the cloth no need for caulk,and no leaks
Yep that’s the way to do it right . Live and learn
Hello. Could you tell what you used under the paint what material and where you got it from? And do you have a video of how you did your PMF?
The material is a large painters canvas and yes I have a video in my channel of how I did it.
3:47 any ideas to improve the appearance of PMF at the corners, especially where there is cloth overlapping?
ive seen some camper that looked seamless, and smooth . im guessing they used the method of sealing the cloth with glue then sanding and painting. Next time i think i will use bed sheets . the canvas i used was pretty rough and coudnt really sand or smooth very well. I would also do the top first then wrap sides up and over to hide seams better.
@@christopherjackson3455 I thought about bondo but as rough as canvas is I don’t think you could ever feather the edges enough to blend in smoothly
@@ArmadilloJunction @Armadillo Junction You'll want to stand by and pinhole bubbles which formed from outgassing on a test comparison, canvas vs sheets. The sheet was stronger and smoother, except for bubbles because the canvas breathed better.
Rhino liner over that sheet we'll hide all of that
@@joshbrown5938 Line-X guy told me that spray on liners do not hide - they accentuate any flaws
Did use a particular filler under the PFM or any quality building filler will do the job? Cheers
Honestly don’t remember brand but was just some filler I had in cabinet .
I live in a 99 dutchman half the year, never had a window leak.
0:40 Exactly!
Yep that’s what started me on my camper building . My last camper was a 32 ft 5th wheel . Besides the leaks the roof collapsed and it had an aluminum frame .
Hard science wins every time.
Yep , thanks for stopping by.
Why though? It was such a nice little camper. I would have given you a decent price for it.
Going to build another camper and really was interested in how some of the building techniques worked . Planning on using the trailer for a kayak trailer and using a stronger trailer. Going recycle all the parts for new trailer also.
Why tear it apart
Wow..I have been debating about build a small skiff using this method..Is the ply just standard cdx grade...kinda impressive after 3 years that it was still bonded that good..You think a good oil base paint would work on the canvas or stay with a water base ? Thanks for sharing the vid and the good results you have
I used cabinet grade to have smooth sides to work with. If I remember right from all my research the water based was recommended because it soaked in canvas better. Building a small boat or kayak is on the list of things to try and build. Thanks for stopping by.
Are you rebuilding because of the water damage? or because you just have to many new ideas that require starting from scratch? I bought a prebuilt that is very similar to yours. Walls are 1" thick plywood and no insulation. I definitely have water damage but mine has a vinyl roof and metal skin. I know I'll be rebuilding at some point and will probably reuse the metal skins but Pmf the top and bottom.
No I it would have been fine for years I’m sure . I just get a wild hair sometimes and go with it. I was also curious how well the pmf worked. We had no issues with uninsulated walls , we slept down in the 40s with no problem .
So, why are you tearing it apart?
Because I was curious about how well PMF really worked and thought others would to, I recycled all the pieces for next build and other projects.
Good to know.
👍
Why did you tear your nice camper apart
(1) 4x8 isn’t big enough for us and dogs
(2) I recycle reuse stuff
(3) in the name of UA-cam science I wanted to see how well the pmf with tite bond 2 worked to show other people interested in building with pmf
(4) I wanted to. Hold a new one.
Thanks for stopping by
I'm now sold on PMF.
It works for sure.
What is the cheapest plywood I would be safe using? Going to be a cheap camper, probably rebuild in 4-5 years if I stick with the hobby
If your building some kind of frame to put the plywood on I’d say as thin as you would like . Some people build camper with sheets of foam . So it’s really how the structure is built I guess .
Im not sure if its been asked for this is a dumb question.
But can you do just Titebond 2 by itself? Or mix it with paint?
Or does the canvas add as a layer of protection as well?
the canvas has to be used , for strength and keeps the glue from cracking . the glue is need first to create a waterproof coating before paint . i researched it quite a bit anfd never seen anyone mix the glue and paint .
Hello did you screw or nail the plywood? Thanks.
I used screws on everything and if I sank one a little deep I just skimmed it with a little wood putty
@@ArmadilloJunction ok sounds good did of the screws pop through or try pop from the movement? Or no worries at all.
@@warrenbenton9033 I didn’t see any issues in the couple of years I had it , sitting in weather and if I remember right we put a couple thousand miles on it.
How you keep the decals on?
I painted them on
Was this camper stored in a garage or outside? It if was outside what kind of climate?
Outside almost the whole time with a tarp occasionally over it . South east Texas Hot and Humid !
Thanks Again !!!!
You bet , I hope it helped in some way.
I can understand the PMF over plywood. What I find crazy is the PMF over styrofoam with no framing, relying totally on the strength of the PMF. And, coming out with a mini-teardrop so lite it's pulled by a bicycle...!
Yea the pmf gives it no structural support or strengthening. It’s ok as long as nothing hits it haha
I built a ice shanty. used styrofoam 4x10 3/4 plywood floor and pmf. I used epoxy on window door cut outs. but I learned from a old timer you sand everything for a good bond. and round the corners so the cloth gets no air bubbles. ultra light
@@heathgenthner4189 I saw a video on here about really bracing outside 1/4" ply on a 2x2 frame and pouring a 2 part foam into it. Making your own foam laminate panels and WOW. Awesome strength
@@johnw65 I used 1 1/2 maple frame. The maple was left over from cabinet making. Drilled it glued and pegged it with wooden dowels.this spring I bought a solar power kit, USB plugs, and a Bluetooth chip and speakers from Amazon. So this winter I hope to do a little more fun fishing.
@@johnw65 I know it's easy to buy these ice fishing pop ups. I have a Eskimo pro. But I hate the element of bare ice underneath my feet. Or wind blowing threw it. So I went back to the old way.
Might redo my winnebago roof in this since the factory roof leaks like a sieve
After owning multiple rvs I don’t see how it could be any worse than the rubber roofs, as long as drains off well .
@ArmadilloJunction it's a 2 piece fylon roof that's delaminated and leaking throughout. I am considering a PMF job to replace it instead of more Fylon or fiberglass
What kind of paint is used?
Why didn't you sell this one and buy new parts for the new camper? Seems like you would have made a nice profit on this one.
It was kind of an experiment on how well the poor man fiberglass worked and adheres to wood the way I applied it. And to show people it does work and is a good option.
RV companies sell you absolutely the worst, cheapest product they can get away with. Even the so-called "best" in the business. The prices charged for this crap is astounding. By all means, if a guy can build this in his backyard, do so. Good job! Having built and repaired plywood boats, I can say that a decently applied paint will waterproof just about anything, as long as you perform due diligence in maintaining the finish.
Yes after owning 5 campers ranging from pop ups , bumper pulls and a 5th wheel I can say they are all junk. The last 5th wheel the roof caved in right down the center . They all leaked , I’ve dismantled a couple for part and windows and couldn’t believe how poorly they are framed and built . If I can ever find the space I would love to build a full size camper .
Having built cardboard boats I definitely agree with you on the paint.
What did you use for fabric?
Painters canvas from Lowe’s ,, the new one came from Walmart and I only pmf’d the roof . If I ever did another whole camper I may use the thickest bed sheets I could find to have a smoother finish .
@@ArmadilloJunction thanks for the advice brother. I have a 21-ft palomino camper that has major delamination so I'm replacing the walls and I'm going to use pmf and get it close as I can to matching the fiberglasses on the rest of the camper. I don't care it doesn't have to look perfect just trying to get it close
@@mustangmadd3172 i have seen some campers use pmf that took their time and sanded between coats and it turned out smooth as fiberglass, the biggest issue is finding a canvas thats not full of snags on loops in fabric. another thing to be aware of is most of the box store canvas is only 6 ft wide so there is a huge seem like every 6 ft on the width . and it cant be hidden.. Good luck thats pretty interesting using it on a full size camper. make a video haha . Good luck
@@ArmadilloJunction man I really appreciate the advice. If I can get some help I will try to do a video I'm not very good at videos and whatnot. I'm just an ole slow grammar country boy. What kind of paint would you recommend. When I done my new roof for my pop-up camper I use that rubberized roof paint. But it's not sandable at all
1:16 lol
What is that?
PMF poor mans fiberglass,, canvas with tight bond 2 glue and paint . I got a video on how I did it
I don't care what the Gougeon brothers say, I have never thought putting fiberglass over wood was a good idea. For the simple reason that wood moves and fiberglass doesn't. This sounds like a much better solution.
Yep this method has been around a lot longer than fiberglass. I just used it for the roof of the new trailer build .
Now days they build RVs cars disposable and un repairable so you will have to buy another one.ALL OF THEM.
You should’ve coated over the canvas with glue while the base glue was still wet and wrapped the glued canvas over all openings in the plywood.
Hot air pistol
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IMPROPER GLUING WILL MAKE AN INFERIOR END PRODUCT
Why cheap out with osb floor?
Yea I don’t know what I was thinking on that decision