I hate doing the towers on arsonists too. They just cluster up and then have to revive. I'm very surprised how many narrow and clustered maps ggg made. And surprised everyone hasn't been flaming about it.
I don't think they can just change minions. It's an overall pathing problem in poe2 currently. Mobs also get stuck on anything. Projectiles also get stuck on columns, walls, trees, pebbles... It's a mess.
i dont think its a pathing issue. The issue is that they made the minions have collission with each other so they cant stand inside each other like in PoE 1 and because of that they block each other from walking through the doorways or any kind of smaller way (which sadly exist plenty of in almost every map) They sacrificed playability for nicer looks.....
Love that you put out a proper showcase for this. i've been on the reaver train ever since i had enough spirit to support enough of them, i just really like the feel of playing it over SRS even though it's not quite as optimal. In my own attempts I've found great success in letting the sniper's gas arrow shred enemy armor by giving the hellhound the elemental focus support to turn off its ignite. This allows the gascloud to linger for a lot longer as nothing is setting it off to blow up, causing it to chew through the armor a lot faster than what was shown in the bossfight here. Granted i'm not quite in endgame maps myself yet and it does lose us synergies relating to enemies being ignited (though i don't think the setup you've shown here runs any?), but I have yet to fight a boss that does not lose all of their armor by, at the latest, the mid-way point of the fight since I made this change. Stronger skeletons should only speed this up even more. What are your thoughts on this?
This setup is bad for clearing because youre not running detonate dead! You should really give that skill a try and your clear speed will well over double! It will also make those clunky spots where your reapers get stuck so much better because even with 2 reapers they will instantly one shot a white mob and then you can just DD and itll destroy the whole screen. Definitely try playing with Detonate Dead before you write this build off as a bad mapper. At 13:58 your minion were aggroed on an enemy in the back that they couldn't reach. If you used the control skill you could have cleared that pack 10x faster. Also if you had detonate dead even without controlling your minions it would have been 10x faster. Both combined, and that pack is cleared in a couple of seconds. They definitely have random moments where they feel clunky, but with good minion control + detonate dead youll find these issue melt away, and you may even find as i have that they are actually faster for mapping while having over double the boss damage. Appreciate you checking out the build and I look forward to watching more of your content in the future!
The Poor clear allegations are right in the beginning... 2:20 Minions get stuck, and die if you out run them & no melee splash [yet]. Besides if you want to clear with Detonate dead it requires spell scaling which does not improve your "minions" damage. DD damage reads Flat Fire + 20% of the corpse's HP.
@Goblin-Inc I think DD is an addition that all minion builds should be utilised in general, but it doesn't solve the underlying problems melee specific units face compared to ranged ones. We have tons to yet to figure out and optimise before writing things off, but we can all agree that grim feast either as CI or Hybrid is confirmed to be the actual meta and top performer. The same goes for arsonists on the offensive front. All I'm saying is that seeing guides claiming to be meta feels very clickbaity and very much how the meta of content creation is in diablo whereas in PoE it's always been frowned upon and non of us wants to see that become the norm as it directly hurts the audience we're actually trying to cater to. That said, you have plenty of great diablo guides, and I've only seen 2 of your poe guides so far (subathon limiting my time atm). It is just important to do the audience justice
I get what you're saying, but doesn't that just make DD a good mapping skill, with or without reavers? Reavers are irrelevant in your clearing scenario.
they need to fix this minions getting stuck in doors and rooms POE 1 minion were actually smarter in 3.25 they would just run aimlessly on everything they saw and kill , now they buggy and dumb getting stuck
Speaking of spectres, the gem isn't out yet, but any enemies you're eyeing as a possible option? I'm thinking the lightning experimentalists from Black Chamber or the Solar Priests from the sun bit
(Deaths oath minion) sacrifice + profane ritual How about gemmling legionnaire. Running devouring diadem. Which allows you to strentgh stack for tons of hp. Qnd it can eat a minion every 3 seconds for 20% life? So profane ritual caster, qnd using minions for the death oath like effect, and you regen 20% life every 3 seconds???
I noticed the reaver do have cleave/splash when mapping in narrow hallway yesterday but it's abysmally small. Saw my one reaver was dealing damage to two monsters at the same time.
I just wish they would of decreased spirit for all minions instead of increasing it for arsonists I want to be a true summoner/necromancer have lots and lots of variety of summons at one time to really have a good army. Not just have to have 5 of one kind and call it a summoner. I want to have 5 different kinds of summons even if there is 4 of each close combat range/casters. Cleric or minions the debuff your enemies or minions that give buffs to your army. Variety is awesome and to hopefully have that bc poe2 or poe1 or even diablo it’s usually you just stack one type and call it a good summoner. Blah
Exactly. Its also not going to change the way some of the real damage scales. If you cant run enough gem's or curses as a support you wont be able to anyway. You can scale shock effect for yourself but not minions. There is no way to increase lightning mage's other than cast speed and a flat percentage on minion damage. If the idea would have been to actually experiment with different one's even giving aura's or some skeletal champion that provides a clear buff. It might have been a whole different scenario but that would mean cluttering the screen with even more shit and clearly they want to keep that down. So i think it depends on spectre's if this game will still remain the same with its archtype.
Reavers are more of a frontline, and they are insanely good as so, last gasp is obligatory, that turns your reavers into a secondary line of defense for your character. But you should not run more than 6, 7 revears, tops. The rest should be archers, and like a commenter above said, buff the explosion damage. Its insta clear.
I feel like melee splash is probably going to come with Marauder. Which is a shame, I guess, since the two classes we know are coming soon-ish are Druid and Huntress.
@cd1172 Yeah as others have said they talked about it in one of the interviews. It wasn't, like, a hard schedule, to be clear, so it's possible they'll stumble on more issues that'll force delays, but at the time they were pretty confident Druid and Huntress would be coming with the first few major content updates.
not impressed. and that is on 6-l which most people don't have yet What I am running currently - is 9 arconists and 3x snipers. Snipers damage is just insane. It is literally "DELETE" button on your finger. You don't need many of them. And they also benefit from your fire supports which you have on hound and flammability, etc. Arconists are dealing with trashy mobs fine, i don't see much difference in clearspeed between 14 before nerf and 9 now. Most of the layouts are tight corridors and doors, so its never when all the 14 were attacking same time anyway. Boss/rare mobs damage got downed quite a lot if you run only arconists. But 3 snipers solving it. If you have the curse on rare and your offering is up, and your dog is hitting the target - it just 1-shots rares. Thats it. You click "command" - > target deleted. Tooltip for explosion 41k UNBUFFED. On bosses it just BITES big chunks of HP bar with each click. And don't forget to use a new Bidding support on them, it is insane.
@@mustafashouman1302 the build is similar to other arconists builds. For Sniper i use Elemental Focus, Feeding Frenzy, Bidding, Immolate or Conc. effect (depending on your SRS setup, but my srs are mostly for utility - maim, culling strike, bulls eye).
Seeing the issue with melee minions being able to hit it; could you maybe split the army up between shock mages or frost mages and reavers, so that some are debuffing the boss w/ shock or chill while the boss is being attacked? Might be a DPS loss on paper but might feel better than some just straight-up not fighting. I dunno; pure spitballing.
I use 6 reavers, 2 skeleton storm mages and 1 cleric and raise zombie/ deadonate dead and im steam rolling maps. The storm mages takes care of tight corridors and on the off chance a reaver dies, the storm mages can do a strong thunder bolt aoe on dead skeletons. Deadonate dead is also good. I like raise zombe more though.
if its seemles to change from one build to other, can u use the swap weapon and the swap points on the atlas to change arsonist to reavers to have mapping and bossing?
It actually is not - You want to use different curses, same supports on different minion gems, so You would have to change them manually every time You want to swap. Unfortunately...
@@URB4N126 maybe if we dont need the boss dps with the arsonist and they are only for mapping we could move some support gems? (im just spitballing here)
I've been experimenting with brutes a little and they are actually pretty decent, add the +stun gems and the skill they use automatically will make shockwaves that clear the trash mobs. But still, the same problem of them getting stuck non-stop applies, so...
OMG I CANT BELIEVE IT! THATS MY BUILD!! (almost) Feels kinda weird to see it here since I came with this idea myself and Just on thing I do is using mostly snipers while clearing. Then on the boss room, I leave 2-3 snipers and switch for reavers. Even built for armor breaking, snipers have a good clearing speed. Another change that I do is use Pin support on my reavers. it sacrifices damage but prevent monsters for coming after you, specially those pesky demons. Also, I have 2 lightning skel for shock.
Imagine seeing this ghetto Santa working in your favorite mall... The kids would be traumatized for life 🪦.
he wouldn't be allowed within 200 yards of a school lol
I hate doing the towers on arsonists too. They just cluster up and then have to revive. I'm very surprised how many narrow and clustered maps ggg made. And surprised everyone hasn't been flaming about it.
If they ever change/improve minion pathing and self collision it's really going to open up build variety
I don't think they can just change minions.
It's an overall pathing problem in poe2 currently. Mobs also get stuck on anything.
Projectiles also get stuck on columns, walls, trees, pebbles...
It's a mess.
Minions are too slow to keep up, always got stuck with something hehe.🤣
i dont think its a pathing issue. The issue is that they made the minions have collission with each other so they cant stand inside each other like in PoE 1 and because of that they block each other from walking through the doorways or any kind of smaller way (which sadly exist plenty of in almost every map)
They sacrificed playability for nicer looks.....
it would be cool if the minions would run with you rather than behind you
Love that you put out a proper showcase for this. i've been on the reaver train ever since i had enough spirit to support enough of them, i just really like the feel of playing it over SRS even though it's not quite as optimal.
In my own attempts I've found great success in letting the sniper's gas arrow shred enemy armor by giving the hellhound the elemental focus support to turn off its ignite. This allows the gascloud to linger for a lot longer as nothing is setting it off to blow up, causing it to chew through the armor a lot faster than what was shown in the bossfight here. Granted i'm not quite in endgame maps myself yet and it does lose us synergies relating to enemies being ignited (though i don't think the setup you've shown here runs any?), but I have yet to fight a boss that does not lose all of their armor by, at the latest, the mid-way point of the fight since I made this change. Stronger skeletons should only speed this up even more. What are your thoughts on this?
This setup is bad for clearing because youre not running detonate dead! You should really give that skill a try and your clear speed will well over double! It will also make those clunky spots where your reapers get stuck so much better because even with 2 reapers they will instantly one shot a white mob and then you can just DD and itll destroy the whole screen. Definitely try playing with Detonate Dead before you write this build off as a bad mapper.
At 13:58 your minion were aggroed on an enemy in the back that they couldn't reach. If you used the control skill you could have cleared that pack 10x faster. Also if you had detonate dead even without controlling your minions it would have been 10x faster. Both combined, and that pack is cleared in a couple of seconds.
They definitely have random moments where they feel clunky, but with good minion control + detonate dead youll find these issue melt away, and you may even find as i have that they are actually faster for mapping while having over double the boss damage.
Appreciate you checking out the build and I look forward to watching more of your content in the future!
The Poor clear allegations are right in the beginning... 2:20 Minions get stuck, and die if you out run them & no melee splash [yet].
Besides if you want to clear with Detonate dead it requires spell scaling which does not improve your "minions" damage. DD damage reads Flat Fire + 20% of the corpse's HP.
trying 50/50 half snipers and reavers pretty good tho needs a lot of spirit and gear to work
Sad but true. I thought minions were supposed to play themselves.....
@Goblin-Inc
I think DD is an addition that all minion builds should be utilised in general, but it doesn't solve the underlying problems melee specific units face compared to ranged ones.
We have tons to yet to figure out and optimise before writing things off, but we can all agree that grim feast either as CI or Hybrid is confirmed to be the actual meta and top performer. The same goes for arsonists on the offensive front.
All I'm saying is that seeing guides claiming to be meta feels very clickbaity and very much how the meta of content creation is in diablo whereas in PoE it's always been frowned upon and non of us wants to see that become the norm as it directly hurts the audience we're actually trying to cater to.
That said, you have plenty of great diablo guides, and I've only seen 2 of your poe guides so far (subathon limiting my time atm).
It is just important to do the audience justice
I get what you're saying, but doesn't that just make DD a good mapping skill, with or without reavers? Reavers are irrelevant in your clearing scenario.
I mainly like the arsonist build because you just go full tilt into fire damage and you're good lol
Showed up for the build, stayed for the outfit.
they need to fix this minions getting stuck in doors and rooms
POE 1 minion were actually smarter in 3.25 they would just run aimlessly on everything they saw and kill , now they buggy and dumb getting stuck
Malice scepter is a noticeable boost to damage even with arsonists.
minions need phasing so they do not block each other
Doorway? use corpse explosion. If a minion wins 1v1 duel, you can basically spam corpse ex to clear that mob blocking ur way.
was not expecting the shirtless ghazzy santa jumpscare today
Doing 2-3 Archers with Arsonist together .. nice bombing effects, but its an extra button and door ways are still a death trap.
wish devs added 2 kind of builds in game, so you can change them when u want an try more stuff.
You mean a second passive skill tree where you can easily swap between both?
Just no get your d4 outta my poe
5 reavers and 5 arsonist walk into a bar
good joke since they don't even enter due to getting stuck on the door
Speaking of spectres, the gem isn't out yet, but any enemies you're eyeing as a possible option? I'm thinking the lightning experimentalists from Black Chamber or the Solar Priests from the sun bit
If they want to make melee minions more viable they need to give them zealot charges from StarCraft.
Haven’t been able to play yet today to test but I saw another comment saying you can weapon swap on and off to despawn/respawn your minions
if u despawn them u losee all the stacks like rage etc
(Deaths oath minion) sacrifice + profane ritual
How about gemmling legionnaire. Running devouring diadem. Which allows you to strentgh stack for tons of hp. Qnd it can eat a minion every 3 seconds for 20% life? So profane ritual caster, qnd using minions for the death oath like effect, and you regen 20% life every 3 seconds???
I noticed the reaver do have cleave/splash when mapping in narrow hallway yesterday but it's abysmally small. Saw my one reaver was dealing damage to two monsters at the same time.
Starring Ghazzy as St. Nicolas Stash in Bad Santa 3!
I just wish they would of decreased spirit for all minions instead of increasing it for arsonists I want to be a true summoner/necromancer have lots and lots of variety of summons at one time to really have a good army. Not just have to have 5 of one kind and call it a summoner. I want to have 5 different kinds of summons even if there is 4 of each close combat range/casters. Cleric or minions the debuff your enemies or minions that give buffs to your army. Variety is awesome and to hopefully have that bc poe2 or poe1 or even diablo it’s usually you just stack one type and call it a good summoner. Blah
Exactly. Its also not going to change the way some of the real damage scales. If you cant run enough gem's or curses as a support you wont be able to anyway. You can scale shock effect for yourself but not minions. There is no way to increase lightning mage's other than cast speed and a flat percentage on minion damage. If the idea would have been to actually experiment with different one's even giving aura's or some skeletal champion that provides a clear buff. It might have been a whole different scenario but that would mean cluttering the screen with even more shit and clearly they want to keep that down. So i think it depends on spectre's if this game will still remain the same with its archtype.
i watched a youtube video of skeleton snipers killing a tier15 boss in 1second. Reaver seem alot slower
Gear difference is massive, and snipers have insane single target capabilities since the patch:)
Reavers are more of a frontline, and they are insanely good as so, last gasp is obligatory, that turns your reavers into a secondary line of defense for your character. But you should not run more than 6, 7 revears, tops. The rest should be archers, and like a commenter above said, buff the explosion damage. Its insta clear.
I just hated that you needed an extra key press to get that damage from the snipers ontop of your debuffs. I miss the old days of simple minions.
I feel like melee splash is probably going to come with Marauder. Which is a shame, I guess, since the two classes we know are coming soon-ish are Druid and Huntress.
When did they say which classes are coming first?
@cd1172 One of the Q&A's mentioned that Druid and Huntress are nearly done and will the next added.
@Alias_Fakename yup druid would have been in already but they wanted to make sure that the shape-shifting was working correctly
@cd1172 Yeah as others have said they talked about it in one of the interviews. It wasn't, like, a hard schedule, to be clear, so it's possible they'll stumble on more issues that'll force delays, but at the time they were pretty confident Druid and Huntress would be coming with the first few major content updates.
Are there any frost mage builds yet?
Would you ever try using Skelton snipers in a build?
Jesus Christ i didnt see the thumbnail before i clicked lmao. You popped up and I though you joined OnlyFans for a second.
how's the MoM + EB version holding up? I guess not being able to use grim feast is bad? :(
not impressed.
and that is on 6-l which most people don't have yet
What I am running currently - is 9 arconists and 3x snipers.
Snipers damage is just insane. It is literally "DELETE" button on your finger. You don't need many of them. And they also benefit from your fire supports which you have on hound and flammability, etc.
Arconists are dealing with trashy mobs fine, i don't see much difference in clearspeed between 14 before nerf and 9 now. Most of the layouts are tight corridors and doors, so its never when all the 14 were attacking same time anyway.
Boss/rare mobs damage got downed quite a lot if you run only arconists.
But 3 snipers solving it. If you have the curse on rare and your offering is up, and your dog is hitting the target - it just 1-shots rares. Thats it. You click "command" - > target deleted. Tooltip for explosion 41k UNBUFFED. On bosses it just BITES big chunks of HP bar with each click.
And don't forget to use a new Bidding support on them, it is insane.
do you have a build for this
everybody knows arsonists are great.
@@mustafashouman1302 the build is similar to other arconists builds. For Sniper i use Elemental Focus, Feeding Frenzy, Bidding, Immolate or Conc. effect (depending on your SRS setup, but my srs are mostly for utility - maim, culling strike, bulls eye).
Hm. I tried snipers after the patch, and they felt really bad.
But it's probably depends on your gear. My weapon has only flat fire, spirit, and +3.
What supports are you using to buff the explosion? I managed to get the poison damage reaaaally good but my explosion damage is eh.
DD is best minion skill. Minions are just trash atm imho
What about the chest plate?
Great thanks Ghazzy I guess I'm gay now
I was going to go minions first but i tried every other class, now im doing minions and wondering why i did anything else.
Jesus that intro
how do you get tier 16 maps?
Seeing the issue with melee minions being able to hit it; could you maybe split the army up between shock mages or frost mages and reavers, so that some are debuffing the boss w/ shock or chill while the boss is being attacked? Might be a DPS loss on paper but might feel better than some just straight-up not fighting. I dunno; pure spitballing.
I use 6 reavers, 2 skeleton storm mages and 1 cleric and raise zombie/ deadonate dead and im steam rolling maps. The storm mages takes care of tight corridors and on the off chance a reaver dies, the storm mages can do a strong thunder bolt aoe on dead skeletons. Deadonate dead is also good. I like raise zombe more though.
@jahquinbrown-es9xx Sick; thank you for the info.
can skelly bowmen be a clear skill? i dont want to play arsonists but also melee bad
Can you post your updated Witch arsonist build? For new players. I saw the high budget version but don't even want to try it right now 😅
if its seemles to change from one build to other, can u use the swap weapon and the swap points on the atlas to change arsonist to reavers to have mapping and bossing?
Perhaps with an unset ring or two you could make it work. Don't see why not.
It actually is not - You want to use different curses, same supports on different minion gems, so You would have to change them manually every time You want to swap. Unfortunately...
What about support gems? Don't you normally want to put martial tempo and scattershot on your arsonists?
@@URB4N126 maybe if we dont need the boss dps with the arsonist and they are only for mapping we could move some support gems? (im just spitballing here)
Why are you not running Detonate Dead tho?
I'm trying to get as much Spirit as possible and Combine Reavers, Brutes, Snipers and Priest; Skeletons.
Damn Christmas came early :P
Frost mages next?
yeah I tried this and liked it until I got into a narrow map ^^
Don't brutes have additional melee range and could stand behind reavers?
I've been experimenting with brutes a little and they are actually pretty decent, add the +stun gems and the skill they use automatically will make shockwaves that clear the trash mobs. But still, the same problem of them getting stuck non-stop applies, so...
Mrs. Clause when?
Waluigi Santa claus
the worst mapping exp i had since the game launch ...
Bro my mums on this app
Naw get on the archers man.
oh ye you are right flame wall SRS infernalist i have 15 fps xD with rtx3060 intel i7 16gb ram
OMG I CANT BELIEVE IT! THATS MY BUILD!! (almost)
Feels kinda weird to see it here since I came with this idea myself and
Just on thing I do is using mostly snipers while clearing.
Then on the boss room, I leave 2-3 snipers and switch for reavers.
Even built for armor breaking, snipers have a good clearing speed.
Another change that I do is use Pin support on my reavers.
it sacrifices damage but prevent monsters for coming after you, specially those pesky demons.
Also, I have 2 lightning skel for shock.
lol
Kid
Dude the build uses DD also shoutout to goblin
first
Little kid