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Never believe what anyone with a name like 'Friedman' tells you about history. In fact, treat them with suspicion. Like Rabbi Solomon Friedman, who owns pornhub.
“I don’t mean to be pedantic”. Yes, yes you do, and we’re on board with it. This level of contextual detail is absolutely warranted, and needed, these days.
@@infinitesimotel not really, the Egyptians looked different depending on which kingdom stage of the kingdom was present, there was a period of cush, North African natives, byzantines, greek and Babylonian that arrived aswell
But what if first she traveled on foot from Georgia state to Georgia country through the Bering Strait when it was frozen over and then was swept away in the Black sea
Cleopatra IS a greek name! Her dynasty is the Ptolomeans, also greek! 'Cleos' means 'glory', 'patros' means 'father"! So she was her/the father's glory! Albeit being totally greek, she was the first and only ptolomaeic ruler speaking and writing fluently the egyptian language!!!
yeah it's modern ignorance (when it shouldn't exist thanks to easy to found sources) where people lazily just assume one monolithic ethnicity/race for an entire continent.
My Grandma said, "I don't care what anyone tells you, Cleopatra was powerful, versatile and indestructible. She couldn't be reasoned with. Couldn't be bargained with. She felt no pity. No remorse. No pain. No fear. She had only one purpose: to return to the present and prevent the future. She was called...The Terminator." Granted, they had her on pretty strong meds, so who knows what she was on about.
What worries me, as an archaeologist, when I hear such statements, that the ancient historians or sources do not refer to a certain subject or are silent about it, is that on the one hand not all the sources have been saved and on the other hand whatever informations we have are supplemented by archaeological excavations. Very correctly he spoke about the women of Pompeii, however, we know about them from the excavations. So to say that some aspects were kept quiet in ancient times is probably an exaggeration.
I believe like with most normal people today, that the people of ancient times didn’t care about women accomplishing anything. Why would they? Unless women accomplished something that men could never do, then why make a big deal about it?. It’s like learning about the man who first invented the musket, and then being expected to learn about the woman who could also make muskets. There is nothing awesome about being second in the race.
@@KuroKumo96 I think that requires some major nuance as it may come off wrong. Women throughout history had the most important job of all: bearing the next generation and nurturing them in early life. This is not only the most important job in any society (or biology for that matter), and for most of history such an intense job that it severely limited other work to be combined with it.... but one that men are severely ill-equipped to do so. The trade-off always was that men would do the other work. Women thereby had to be generalists, capable of doing a large variety of tasks around the house, compatible with raising the children. Men in contrast needed to do many specific jobs and would specialize into them. It's for that reason that almost everything that historians take an interest in, was predominantly done by men. Women had more important things to do, a job both common and vital, that it's rarely documented. We hear the exceptions, women who took on the male role by necessity or choice. And of course, those women who insisted on having both cakes - and by doing so, often failing disastrously. The main problem is that most people today are not capable of beginning to imagine a world without smartphones or the internet - things we just invented. Let alone a world without washing machines, mass-produced cook-ready food, contraception and advanced healthcare, and so forth. Or for that matter, one without electricity, running water, sewers, a functional police, decades of peace, global trade, and so forth. And so they don't value it, and thereby strip women of the deserved appreciation for that which they always did.
@@sorsocksfake "This is not only the most important job in any society (or biology for that matter)" There are exceptions of course. But if we're talking about mammals you would be mostly correct.
@@KuroKumo96 I'm talking mostly about the kept quiet part, like it was on purpose. Ofc till recently our society was and maybe still is patriarchal. Still, even if this prof is right in his logic, he cant talk with such an absolute knowing the fact tthat we lack many sources.
@@kaltaron1284 Point being, if there is no next generation, all other accomplishments become moot. What's the worth of building a utopia, if in 60 years there's nobody left to live there?
I always thought that the theory of cleopatra's death with the snake was an attribution made to her because its very similar to the way Olympia, (the mother of Alexander the great) died. It looks like they were trying to mythologize her death and relate to her macedonian ancestry
*Fun fact:* There's a 1983 miniseries called "the Cleopatras", which tells the story of the ptolemaic dynasty from the rise of Cleopatra II until the death of Cleopatra VII. Despite being written and created by the legendary Philip Mackie (the guy who made the awesome shows "The Caesars" and "Napoleon and Love") is cheesy AF. Patrick Troughton (The Second Doctor) and Ian McNeice (the newsreader guy from "HBO's Rome") appear in it, btw
@@Pilot-X yeah it's true, she had a boomerang and all. I so tired of people with degrees and doctorates spending their whole life doing painstaking research and they are just totally wrong. When grandma says this it's true even if she forgot to take her medication that day....
Nah! She was from New Zeeland! And we all know that's Middle Earth, which means she had to be an Elv and able to speak Sindarin and Quenya! Source: "Trust me bro!"😂
@@boraonline7036 hahah the trust me bro source I can not compete with 😂 first time I heard Netflix let an old lady state that I'm like wtf is wrong with the world!
That's great Lex posted that message , he is that type of guy . People hate being 'wrong' yet when someone admits to something like that people often respect them for it .
The problem is modern western ppl tend to combine them. The whole point of the "trad movement" of the last 70ish years is that the man is in charge and the women serve the men. Along with the "wife bad" jokes are a lot of other ingrained like "women's work" that's looked down upon even though it's just as valuable as "man's work". Then you throw in the the Tates of the world and its easy to throw them both out together
They've been pretty closely linked throughout history. Just the entire concept of "men ruling over women" implies it. It's not always so, but humans gonna human and it's never far away.
@@DanielMWJ so is every matriarchal society misandrist? Or is it implied and do they go hand in hand? No, I would never go so far as to say they do, and to say the same about patriarchy is simply uneducated.
@@Benevolent_Fafnir well beating your wife was still legal until last century in places, but i don't think that's a thing that matriarchal societies had. Idk, it's not commonly mentioned, unlike LEO famously still beating their wives. It does seem to get conflated a lot in loving memory. Also, for the longest time women couldn't own property or even testify in court. Oh! Millions of women can't drive or even go shopping by themselves. It does seem to be linked in recent times.... it seems that modern patriarchy seems to isolate and control women, where its popular, rather that protect the mother of the children and the homemaker. Just a subtle difference there
I just want to point out both you and the professor mentioned Julius Caesar and Cleopatra had "kids" together. As far as I know they only had the one, Caesarion. Mark Antony and Cleopatra did have more than one child together. Great video!
Julius and Cleopatra had one, Caesarion. However, Cleopatra would go on to have 3 more by Mark Antony: Alexander Helios, Ptolemy Philadelphus, and Cleopatra Selene II. It's believed Alexander died during childhood to illness. Selene 2 was able to survive and eventually married King Juba 2 of Mauretania. She is known to have had at least one child.
@@quantumskywalker6888 There's misinterpretation of Cicero that claims Cleopatra had a miscarriage while in Rome. Would that be another "child"? I'm not fond of Cicero from his nastigrams to his outright lies in legal defenses and the Philippics (not to mention changing loyalties on a dime). Here's the Cicero quote: "I am sorry about Tertulla’s miscarriage. For now we need as many Cassii to be produced as Bruti. About the Queen, I hope it is so, and about her Caesar too." --- I'm reminded of the New Testament where one sentence mentions a prostitute, and the next mentions Mary Magdalene, but they're not connected. Cicero's nastigrams are all terse and choppy referring to events we don't know. A rational analysis of the quote is that Cicero heard a rumor that applies to both Cleopatra and her son, or one rumor each. To tie it to the miscarriage, given Cicero's style, is a bit of an overreach. It could be "quartan fever", or theft of some jewelry and an injury to Ptolemy Caesar ... or maybe they fell into the Tiber on a shuttle to Caesar's house. Cicero heard a rumor and even he is not sure of it "I hope it is true". He HATED Cleopatra (possibly for not giving him a book she promised, or maybe the very remote possibility that Julius Caesar would make Ptolemy Caesar a citizen). ----- There is no other historic HINT of a miscarriage. That's it.
I'd love to see a video of Helena, the mother of Constantine I, and her search for the Cross. I've heard she was formidable in her quest, even to the point of torture, in hopes of securing his rule.
Irrelevant (or semi-irrelevant) sidebar: The slave Musa (sp?) was hardly the only upwardly mobile freed person. I submit the case of the enslaved Diocles, who, after becoming free, became a soldier, gained some rank in the army, then became Diocletius, then got command of a legion, took the new handle of Diocletianus (not sure which was prior in time), then was elevated to the status of emperor -- and then made sure upward mobility ended by legally binding sons to their father's status, craft, etc.
Wtf why would he do this? Would this be his own bias doing this or essentially everyone around him being like "ok, so you managed to elite your status, we don't like it but you did. We'll live eith it, or allow YOU to live with it, but make sure it csnt wver happen again."
@@blicklukeIt does make some sense if you take into account that the practice was limited to some vital and strategical services. If your father made equipment for the army that you had to follow in his footsteps. That meant that, in theory, you would always have people manning those important jobs
In 1899 the French president Felix Faure died in unexpected circumstances. His mistress was offering some oral entertainment to the presidential apparatus when his heart failed. A very French way to leave this world. His opponent George Clemenceau had this crual joke : « Il voulut être César, il ne fut que Pompée ». Which translates into "He wanted to be Cesar but was just Pompee" Of course Pompee in French sounds like the past participle of the verb to pump...
I have a soft spot for Clemenceau. He is like French Churchill when comes to savage comments like this. But they were both journous, so they had pretty good training for that.
Thank you! I love your videos. I watch them with my kids (when they are interested anyway) we always have fun when we do watch together. I love your humor. Thank you so much for sharing!
As someone who loves the Asterix comic books and movies (the cartoons, more than the movies with real actors), I totally liked him saying "Pompi". It would 100% fit for one of those! 🤣🤣🤣
Technically, he would be Pompius or Pompeius, unless it works differetly in translated versions - all Roman characters (except for Ceasar) have names ending on "us" (and they're usually puns, though if Pompey was integrated, they would probably keep his actual name).
@@LightKnight_Age_Of My favorite Roman name from Asterix whas Detritus. And I love that, in the Normans book, the Gauls start laughing histerically because the Norman names all end with the same two letters.
@@quantumskywalker6888 I think Détritus overall, not just the name but the character as well, would be a fan favorite if there were a contest. La Zizanie is one of the best albums in the series (my favorite are Astérix Légionnaire, Astérix Gladiateur, Le Tour de Gaule, La Zizanie, Le Domaine des Dieux, and Astérix Mission Cléopâtre... That's quite many albums but it's difficult to pick, I realize...)
I absolutely loved that Lex episode and this reaction video to it. Thanks for providing extra context, perspective and information. I look forward to explore this channel because I'm sure I'll find lots of interest to me. Keep up the great work.
Hi Metatron! Greetings and hajimemashite from Valencia, California! As a rule, I don't really comment on any videos at all, but the absolute excellence and quality of your content makes me feel it's necessary. I wish to praise and applaud your deep professional preparation, presentation, reason, logic, and even-handedness combined with citation and fact-based, unbiased, appropriate historical context regarding your cultural knowledge leaves one with no other impression that this IS what a truly mature, historical imbuement of knowledge looks like. As I was once a teacher myself, I am inspired and heartend by your cause. Additionally, your replies and expressions often make me laugh and spit coffee from my nose so there's that. Thanks also for your works and for your dedication with building and defending the bulwark of the spirit of uncompromising ethics in educational peerlessness. I have no doubt our ancient and revered sages throughout the world would be proud of your efforts. I will also note, that your authentic compassion is obvious to all. You are much loved and profoundly apprciated. Your show without question adds actual and real value to the lives of your viewers. and to society at large. Warm regards, Tom D. P.s. Where did you live in Japan? I lived as a permanent for 14 years. Did you get a chance to study the sword arts while you were there? I am a lifelong practitioner of Kendo and Iaido. I am also an amateur (in the true French meaning) of history in general and of Japanese history in particular. Keep fighting on for truth and excellence Ganbatte!!
No joke. There's a body of thought that Caesar was impotent in the sense he could not produce children. He was a massive philanderer sleeping with any woman who would part her legs (including the wives of both members of the 1st Triumvirate). Yet, in all historic documents there's not one mention of any bastards. Julia was his one legitimate child. It was rumored that Brutus was another .... but with all his promiscuous behavior, no others ever appeared. According to Marc Antony, Caesar believed Ptolemy Caesar was his ... the rest is speculation.
There's actual a suggestion that Caesar was impotent in the sense that he couldn't make babies. He slept with any woman who would open her legs all across the known world including wives of senators (in particular the wives of the first triumvirate). He had ONE acknowledged child: Julia. His enemies also suggested Brutus was his child (strong possibility). However, in all that philandering, no bastards ever appeared in history. If Cleopatra couldn't give him a baby, she'd be caste aside like all his other queens ... She was pregnant when he left. Was it Caesars? ... She *HAD* to give him a boy. Was it even hers?
Celtic Women had a bit more rights than just land owning. Celtic Women, in particular Irish Celtic Women, could choose/reject their intended husbands, could divorce their husbands and leave on January 1st, could participate in governmental councils, and if attacked women were the last line of defense for the children. Celtic Women were buried with honors according to their status in the community. Also, the deity of war for Celts (Continental, Ireland and British isles) was a Woman. If you wanted to win you had to court her favor or accept her favor if she was so inclined to give it.
In fact it is a myth that she was this great beauty, she was Greek, She was highly respected for her high level of intelligence even by her enemies. That says alot about her. As far as how beautiful she may or may not have been thats i think mostly speculation not historically verified. Like say Justinians wife who was regarded as oh so beautiful even by her enemies.
@@RollingCalf yes you also have to consider what was considered beautiful in those days. I doubt she went to the gym. There are some historians who argue that she well not trying to be rude may have been not petite.
Indeed she was not in antiquity, contemporarily or by histories, usually referred to as classically beautiful physically but like some women very alluring, charming, sensual and sexually attractive. She appears to have been one of those people that catch and hold the eye or dominate a room by their presence.
Given the level of inbreeding it is unlikely that she was a... pick a beautiful celeb. I don't really remember any. However beauty standards were different back then. To be fat was not considered a bad thing because the wealth tended to be fat. They had the wealth to be leisurely. One can still find those aspects in certain Orient/South East Asian cultures. It is more a modern Western view that fat people are derided. Just like in some cultures for a man to grow a beard was considered improper unless they were of wealth. Proper grooming and all that is a mark of distinction. So while we may not find her beautiful, people of her age likely did. Plus she had that whole presence/charisma aspect in that she seemed to have a knack for dominating men in subtle ways.
3:47 "Pompi" was the nickname we gave the dimwitted (even by bull standards), but massive, bull we had, back when I lived in my home village, so hearing him calling Pompey that made actually laugh out loud
Can anybody answer why the Ptolemies as a whole are never the topic of discussion? It is always Cleopatra VII. Her entire family spanning back to Ptolemy I are INSANE! They are the most incestuous, homicidal and backstabbing dynasties ive ever read about. Their family structure clearly inspired the Targaryens in game of thrones. But the individual members are nut jobs. There is so much drama and death im surpised they are not the most talked about and infamous royal families to ever live .
Casting aspersions, here. The first three Ptolemies took a defunct country and built an empire reminiscent in expanse to the height of pharaonic Egypt. Ptolemy's II-III ruled the Mediterranean with a fleet of 800 warships ... a good number, twin triremes strapped together with a fighting platform containing catapults and polyabolos. As for Ptolemies IV-XII, you're right: homicidal & backstabbing -- you forgot running the country into bankruptcy. Despite the Egyptian religious Isis-Osiris thing, the incest was a practical matter of keeping tight control over power. Nothing to do with "royal bloodline". It was all business. .... As an aside, when a Ptolemy died (for whatever reason) the first son generally ascended to the throne. Sons did NOT like ruling with their mothers, and generally executed them ... except the one that got away by reading the writing on the wall and escaping to Syria (where she became a queen).
I'd like for Metatron to address the science behind how could so much inbreeding lead to this so called "beautiful, intelligent, powerful leader. Just the thought of how much inbreeding that was going on is just disgusting to me.
@@beeel6383 I'm not Metatron but ... inbreeding concentrate traits. Often the traits we notice are the ones which cause disfigurement (Habsburg Lip, for example) or death, but it also concentrates 'good' traits, such as intelligence or beauty. If enough of it happens in one family you get lots of early deaths, idiots, and nutbags, but you may also get brilliant beautiful offspring. This is the basis of breeding livestock - you choose for the traits you want and either kill, or don't breed, the offspring which don't have the desirable traits. Eventually, you get a breed with the good traits and (mostly) not the bad.
Hello Metatron! Thank you for the video. I personally think, that Octavianus did not want to kill Cleopatra. On the contrary, he very much wanted her captured alive and in good looking. Then he would have dressed her as goddess Isis and show her off on his triumph not just a captured foreign queen, but a captured living goddess Isis! That would have been a truly monumental propaganda triumph and Octavianus would be though of as a mythical hero, like Hercules.
Hey Lorgar, while you're hiding out in your basement scribbling on scrolls and whining to the Gods of Chaos, your favorite bro Guilliman is out there getting shit DONE! When you gonna get back out there? Hmm? Your sons are wildin' out.
I doubt it. Court poet Horace calls her a demented queen for daring to oppose Rome. Octavia would have dragged her behind his triumphal chariot and then they would have either strangled her or thrown her from the Tarpeian hill.
The capture and parading of a living God is quite the propaganda piece. Especially in a time period where belief in the gods was almost tangible. To subjugate a god and have her grant her eternal blessing to the Empire would be very powerful. That being said, her defiance could also be a grave danger. That's why you keep her kids hostage until you have no further need of her. Which is something the Romans were quite known for.
Metatron laughing at English pronunciation of Pompi reminds me of my friend from Pakistan breaking into a giggle for at my English pronunciation of Tikka Masala 😅
@@peterfyal4998 none of the Bangladeshi men who run the store and restaurant we use to get our freshly made tikka masala have ever pronounced it that way to us lol. Saying that though, it’s mostly their kids we deal with and they all have Edinburgh accents like us lol.
Tikka masala isnt often pronouced in pakistan as its a dish from UK (makes little sense, means without sauce gravy). Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Saraiki, Urdu, Balochi, Hindko, Gujari, Kashmiri, and Brahui are some of the 14 major languages in Pakistan, drive town to town and people pronounce everything differently in Pakistan
@@JadeLeaf1980 I'm just messing haha. I think he means that most dishes are actually british and trying to get one in India or Pakistan wouldn't result in anything more that a "huh".
Even my History Teacher in Fift Grade, (I Loved my History Teacher so much) said how Cleopatra spent a lot of Time in the Library of Alexandria reading and learning! And so she learned Several Languages!
Plutarch reports 8 languages, but he omits Greek which she would have learned in her crib. He also omits Latin which was the major language of power in the Med, which she would have been a fool not to learn. Then he hedges his bet with "and many more." It's documented that she wrote books on philosophy, medicine (2), mathematics, alchemy, magic, and cosmetics. Guess which one survived to 400 ACE.
Pointing out that Cleopatra displaying as Isis as a cultural/religious action was not nitpicking; it was an important detail to be clarified. She was definitely a striking person in history, and had few peers in the annals of history.
But it's the context that is key. A lot of writings from Roman sources mentioned her dressing up with Marc Antony while drinking a lot with many others around. Sure it's a cultural thing for Egyptians. The point being made is this was different as per the sources
I agree with Metatron (easy call). There are a number of images of Cleopatras-as-Isis in Dendera (easy lookup) alongside a teenage Ptolemy Caesar (who at the time was a toddler). It's all religious significance tied up with propaganda. There are stylistic images of her as Isis remaining. The two legitimate statues of her (IMHO) in Berlin and the Rosicrucian show her as Queen, but she holds an ankh ... an Isis symbol. She also holds a cornucopia, but that intentionally ties her to Arsinoe II. All cleverly thought out symbology for the mass of Egyptians. Caesar built a temple of Venus in his forum (claimed to be an ancestor). He placed a gilt statue of Cleopatra-as-Isis-as-Venus in there that was seen until the 4th century ACE ... It was serious business.
@@KleopatraKebab don't think anyone is disputing anything you said. We're talking about when it happened with Marc Antony in the last year of her life and the written accounts of it
@@zachNFL25 To be fair, Antony was never considered a "king" of Egypt despite the marriage. He was just her husband. Dionysus had nothing to do with Egyptian religion. Why would they care? It always struck me as "I can do that too" and Cleopatra just let him run. I think "cosplay" is a strong word ... but I don't see how it would affect Egyptians. Maybe he did it for the territories of the East? Or maybe just for fun. Or maybe as Met described.
I love history and it’s wonderful that you can actually hear a more accurate version through this gentleman. Another one of my favourites to listen to is Tom Holland. I can listen to these guys for hours. Thank you for your video.🇨🇦
I mean Cleopatra did influence Egyptian being written and taught again since she was the first one to reintroduce it but it did eventually die down through time.
She was influential in her time but nothing really that carries on to today, unlike lets say Octavian who basically founded the roman empire and was basically the ideal throughout its wntire existance and roman empir ehad profound impact on europe which can be felt in the entire world… also hes got a month named after him
Not exactly. Alexandria was the power center (like Washington DC in the USA), separate from the rest of the country. Greek was the language of Alexandria and all administration, including the nomes. However, peasant Egyptians were still speaking Egyptian as they had for 1000's of year. It's kind of the other way around. Cleopatra tapped into the vast majority that already spoke Egyptian. This was a clever move along with her identification with Isis to show unity with the country, rather than another elitist Greek that just ordered them around.
@@kingkibble it's funny how you call the Greeks elitist as though it's a humble thing to claim to be a literal goddess in the flesh deserving of worship and not just political submission as a governor. Cleopatra loved power and pursued it. She lost the game of thrones and lost her life for her failure to gain absolute power.
i personally love when you are nit picking. i am part of the people who don t really know much about history unfortunately and i like to think that i can always rely on your videos for accurate informations and yes i also want the details, so please never stop. ❤🤘
Its not at all wrong to bring Isabella up. But she did have a husband and they did rule together. Altough by all accounts Isabella was indeed the main force behind some pretty important historical facts. She absolutely destroys Cleopatra any day of the week.
@@Ruimas28 Cleopatra is not a good example of successful female monarch indeed, Elizabeth I of England and Ekaterina II of Russia are even more impressive examples, however, people are captivated by Cleopatra's story not because how good as a ruler she was.
here, Metatron, have some more Pompees, as you seemed to be having fun: Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Anyway, as a middle aged American, I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it that way. before
I visited Egypt in 1999. It was the most beautiful place and I felt like I was transported back in time as I walked through the Valley of the Kings and Queens as well as places like Luxor or walking through the museum of Cairo.
I haven't shed a tear from laughter in a very long time until the Pompey or rather "Pompi" bit killed me. All i can hear in my head is "Come back to bed Pompi"
You said "we don't hear about the slave who became queen of Parthia." I would counter we don't hear about Parthia. There were four great empires at that time, Rome, China, Parthia, and Kushan (I had to look up to be sure I had that last one right). Regarding influential women in history, the first four that come to my mind: Eleanor of Aquitaine - through her, England controlled more than a third of France for about 200 years. Elizabeth I - laid the ground work to form the British Empire Victoria I - ruled what was arguably the greatest empire in recorded history Elizabeth II - ended that empire, established the commonwealth, and reigned through the entire Cold War, while the leaders of Russia and America came and went.
It's a bit debatable how much real power esp. the later English queens had. But they were figureheads and symbols for sure. Even with Eleanor it's a bit like what Metatron said: Her power came from her father, husband and sons. It was a lot of power though.
Constitutional monarchy means an asterisk to Victoria and Elizabeth II. Margaret Tacher, in my opinion, made more an impact on her own. Not a good impact, but generations feel it.
I'm glad Lex watched your video of your analysis of his. I think it would be pretty cool if he would invite you! I'm actually shocked people haven't yet. The amount of things I have learned from your channel, is amazing! Thank you for everything you do!
I wish that more people could criticize things in such a fair, balanced and evidence based way. You are a relic of a lost time, and I thank you for staying true to values that are steadily disappearing. Thank you for spreading your wings!
Very good analysis as usual, Metatron. The legend of Cleopatra presents the perfect canvas with which people can project their own values seeing as how little we really know about her. Thanks for covering this some more. Keep up the good work!
Totally beside the point, but I would LOVE you to talk about the Pharoah Queen Hatshepsut. I know the biggest shock to her was, despite her ruling a period of growth, had most of her hieroglyphs destroyed, now thought to be political warfare. But I think you could really talk about her in such a great way considering how you speak of Cleopatra. Also, no one talks about her lol. Love this video and all I watched previous. The fact you provide historical docs/examples is more than most do.
You are so well versed in history! You need to get out and get on some of the podcasts I would love to hear your takes on historic things in a podcast setting!
I mean Egypt *was* independent while she was co-ruling it with her husband-brother. Despite pressure from Rome and other Mediterranean powers trying to annex Egypt. Egypt being conquered soon after her death was *because* her death came soon after her primary backer, Mark Antony was defeated in battle, meaning there was nothing left she could have done. She backed the losing commander, there was no political maneuvering that could have been done at that point to keep Egypt independent. It had nothing to do with her being an incompetent leader. Octavius was just the better military commander.
@pacmonster066 Agrippa was the military mind and had the primary role in defeating the Egypto-Antonian forces. Although, that isn't to say Octavian didn't have a primary role in another critical area because he, in fact, was the #1 political agent and developer/disseminator of propaganda against Antony & Cleopatra. Whch practically guaranteed she wouldn't be able to rule even as a client-Queen or subordinate ruler inside his Empire. So not only was the point about their defeats militarily stripping her political maneuverability true, Octavians propaganda machine & political manipulation likely also blocked any hopes of her conniving a favorable outcome with Rome also.
Well it depends. Rome was very involved in egyptian affaires way before her, or even her father. That's why Cleo neded a roman protector, first Caesar and then Antony
@@leonardoferrari4852 Romans had been used to settle dynastic disputes at least as far back as Cleopatra's grandfather. The only reason Cleopatra's father was sitting on the throne was because 2,500 Roman soldiers fought Egyptian troops and put him there (they remained). Gabinius lead the Romans, and he answered to Pompey. Pompey was Egyptian support in Rome. Caesar had already tried to annex Egypt, so Cleopatra had to act to stay independent. With Caesar gone, Octavian and Antony were about equal in power. Antony was easier to get to, and better funded. That's why Octavian's claim in the Senate that Egypt wanted to war with Rome is ridiculous. Egypt needed Rome. The whole war-with-Egypt was a cover-up (and the Senate knew it) for a civil war with Antony.
@@KleopatraKebab It was not. It was inevitable that Octavian and his rival would eventually fight. Anthony wanted to use Egypt as a platform for his campaign against the parthians, if he had been left to his own devices he would have retourned to Rome to challenge Octavian. Cleopatra bet on the wrong horse
However , actually caring for someone in what is a transactional relationship is not uncommon. A contemporary criticism of Julius Caesar was that he was smitten by Cleopatra VII, not just having a child with her.
@@kaltaron1284 Yes, a woman who was only 5 years older than Cleopatra, and his third wife, while he maintained a long term affair with Servilia, the mother of Brutus. He probably spent more time with Cleopatra during the siege of Alexandria than he did the whole of his marriage to Calpurnia at that time, being that he was in Gaul most of it.
I sincerly hope, Lex invites you to his podcast! You should talk about the misconceptions about the medieval period. And a little pretencious lesson in classical latin pronounciation
I’ve always enjoyed Prof. Aldrete’s Great Courses programs. One of my favorites is his course on “History’s Great Military Blunders snd the lesson they teach.”
“How he went from a leader to a madman" Some people get struck by a god complex, Herod and Alexander were one of them. It developed little by little, but it grew and got worse over time. It's a form of narcissism.
Keep in mind there are four different Herods in the Gospels. The Great Antipas Agrippa Archelaus Phillip. Wait, that's five. 🤦🏼♂️🙇🏼♂️ Basically, the Jews in Judea at that time were a bit rebellious, and Herod the Great did a better job of tamping that down than his successors did. One of his sons lost his realm due to a rebellion. It's complicated, and I forgot half of it. I've gotta go brush up!
Well to be fair from roman perspective he was probably a nice guy and just ignore the bad parts, from christian side ignore the good parts and demonize him so you get that… he was probably somewhere in between who knows
When you reached for your headphones at the beginning, I thought you were reaching for a tinfoil hat! 😆 A lot of creators have one as a prop. Thanks for another great video. ✌🏻💜😇
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Never believe what anyone with a name like 'Friedman' tells you about history. In fact, treat them with suspicion. Like Rabbi Solomon Friedman, who owns pornhub.
Will check it out , in Pompy's honor 🫡
AVE C. POMPI MAGNUS
@@skibidi.G Thanks!
Bro, 2nd video you refer to Presentism as Modernism (the act of applying present day lenses to ancient subjects).
“I don’t mean to be pedantic”.
Yes, yes you do, and we’re on board with it. This level of contextual detail is absolutely warranted, and needed, these days.
cleopatra was fully black get over it
@@goprojoe8943 No she wasnt lol she was a Macedonian who was born in Egypt
@@goprojoe8943 She wasn't even 1% black lol
@@goprojoe8943didn’t know that Macedonians were black lol
@@goprojoe8943 why would you think that? Where is evidence for that ?...why doas it even matter ?
Cleopatra was actually an Austrian painter, according to my grandmother, and people in Pompey were really pompous and they loved pompi.
I don't get it. Was cleopatra black?
@@goprojoe8943Yep ,as true as It gets.
@@goprojoe8943 She was orange
@goprojoe8943 no sure was purple.
@@Magplar orange is the new black, after all
I always told my grandma , it doesn’t matter what Google says, Cleopatra is a redheaded Viking
The Egyptians were originally White titian haired people.
Nah she was obvious a pink haired Japanese schoolgirl... The cosplay is a dead give away
@@infinitesimotel not really, the Egyptians looked different depending on which kingdom stage of the kingdom was present, there was a period of cush, North African natives, byzantines, greek and Babylonian that arrived aswell
Thats what my grandma said too
Egyptians were Indo-European actually. We migrated out of Africa, then when sufficiently evolved, we created all of civilization.
My grandmother always told me, literally every single day, "I dont care what the schools tell you, pompii is a hilarious word"
Damn right, it's very similar for the Italian word for "blow job".
In Spanish is Pompeya, which is even funnier.
Like that famous musical piece, Pompeii and Circumcision.
@@zombiemachinery4868 i though we say Pompeyo
A Chicano girlfriend of mine thought a banner reading “Feliz Ano Nuevo” was hilarious, as without the tilda, Ano means anus.
I'm so glad Metatron found some quality historical content to react to. Reading bad history non-stop cannot be good for his blood pressure.
Metatron loves some clickbait!!! There’s plenty of quality historical content around
@@nachomagallanico it's only clickbait whent the title or thumbnail are false in relation to the video.
Well coming from a 10yr old account with 14 comments it's safe to say your a bot😂
@@richarddixon4303 I'm not obligated to comment on every single video I watch.
@@richarddixon4303 he said something you disagreed with and you checked out his profile & about OH and his comment history? Kinda wierd lmao
AVE POMPI, grandfather of Incontinentia Buttox, wife of Bigus Dicus
Gwandfather you say? Was he also fwom Wome?
@@trex5145 I have a vewy gweat fwiend in Wome called Biggus Dicus!
@@trex5145 he was a consul of Wome!
Barabba? 😂😂😂
@@trex5145 when I read it I heard exactly that voice in my mind so i giggled a bit, good job
Cleopatra was actually a Cherokee Indian whose canoe was swept by a storm from Georgia to Egypt and they made her Queen.
Nah she's afrikaans for sure
But what if first she traveled on foot from Georgia state to Georgia country through the Bering Strait when it was frozen over and then was swept away in the Black sea
No no no she was a southern American solutean 🤣
agree if black
Elizabeth Warren again !!
Pompi (pompee) is what we call butt/tush in Spanish 😂 I laughed too when I heard it.
A little one at that
In our language is actually a ‘tap’.
In Italian pompi is part of the word for a sexual act 😂
More like "pompis", but yeah.
Pompey is how I learned it. This was what I learned from Shakespeare.
Definitely would appreciate more of these videos. I just found your channel because of the last one, and went down a rabbit hole of your content
Thank you! More to come soon as I'll film the next episode tomorrow.
Welcome!! The channel is great, not sure how I found it really, but just good history with a touch of drama :)
Hell yea! Wecome !! I remember doing the same about 5 years back!
Let’s have a movie with Peter Dinklage playing Shaka Zulu
That would be awesome!😂
That would be stunning and brave!
No, Kitano or Gianmaria Volontè should've been
Yes but have him actually lead the troops in battle from the front line... Napoleon style.
Goliath
Cleopatra IS a greek name!
Her dynasty is the Ptolomeans, also greek!
'Cleos' means 'glory', 'patros' means 'father"!
So she was her/the father's glory!
Albeit being totally greek, she was the first and only ptolomaeic ruler speaking and writing fluently the egyptian language!!!
Cleopatra Thea Philopator --- Literally "Glory of her father" "Goddess" "Father loving"
Hey, be quiet and stop making sense.
yeah it's modern ignorance (when it shouldn't exist thanks to easy to found sources) where people lazily just assume one monolithic ethnicity/race for an entire continent.
You are correct.Dont know what is wrong with people.
Please make another 100 episodes of this. As a fellow Italian there's nothing better than learning both history and English from Metatron Magnus
My Grandma said, "I don't care what anyone tells you, Cleopatra was powerful, versatile and indestructible. She couldn't be reasoned with. Couldn't be bargained with. She felt no pity. No remorse. No pain. No fear. She had only one purpose: to return to the present and prevent the future. She was called...The Terminator."
Granted, they had her on pretty strong meds, so who knows what she was on about.
Best one yet
Her defense was impregnable, her style impetuous, she is going to eat your children...
Ever see the Mad TV skit on the Terminator going back in time to protect Jesus, you should it is pretty hilarious.
They should make a movie about that, sounds like a banger
@@DustinDonald-cz9ot Just watched it. Probably better than the real T3 but the laughter from the audience (or track) was annoying.
What worries me, as an archaeologist, when I hear such statements, that the ancient historians or sources do not refer to a certain subject or are silent about it, is that on the one hand not all the sources have been saved and on the other hand whatever informations we have are supplemented by archaeological excavations. Very correctly he spoke about the women of Pompeii, however, we know about them from the excavations. So to say that some aspects were kept quiet in ancient times is probably an exaggeration.
I believe like with most normal people today, that the people of ancient times didn’t care about women accomplishing anything. Why would they? Unless women accomplished something that men could never do, then why make a big deal about it?. It’s like learning about the man who first invented the musket, and then being expected to learn about the woman who could also make muskets. There is nothing awesome about being second in the race.
@@KuroKumo96
I think that requires some major nuance as it may come off wrong. Women throughout history had the most important job of all: bearing the next generation and nurturing them in early life. This is not only the most important job in any society (or biology for that matter), and for most of history such an intense job that it severely limited other work to be combined with it.... but one that men are severely ill-equipped to do so.
The trade-off always was that men would do the other work.
Women thereby had to be generalists, capable of doing a large variety of tasks around the house, compatible with raising the children. Men in contrast needed to do many specific jobs and would specialize into them.
It's for that reason that almost everything that historians take an interest in, was predominantly done by men. Women had more important things to do, a job both common and vital, that it's rarely documented. We hear the exceptions, women who took on the male role by necessity or choice. And of course, those women who insisted on having both cakes - and by doing so, often failing disastrously.
The main problem is that most people today are not capable of beginning to imagine a world without smartphones or the internet - things we just invented. Let alone a world without washing machines, mass-produced cook-ready food, contraception and advanced healthcare, and so forth. Or for that matter, one without electricity, running water, sewers, a functional police, decades of peace, global trade, and so forth.
And so they don't value it, and thereby strip women of the deserved appreciation for that which they always did.
@@sorsocksfake "This is not only the most important job in any society (or biology for that matter)"
There are exceptions of course. But if we're talking about mammals you would be mostly correct.
@@KuroKumo96 I'm talking mostly about the kept quiet part, like it was on purpose. Ofc till recently our society was and maybe still is patriarchal. Still, even if this prof is right in his logic, he cant talk with such an absolute knowing the fact tthat we lack many sources.
@@kaltaron1284
Point being, if there is no next generation, all other accomplishments become moot. What's the worth of building a utopia, if in 60 years there's nobody left to live there?
I always thought that the theory of cleopatra's death with the snake was an attribution made to her because its very similar to the way Olympia, (the mother of Alexander the great) died. It looks like they were trying to mythologize her death and relate to her macedonian ancestry
Oddly, not many make that connection.
The original Ptolemy was one of Alexander's generals
She was Macedonian through and through, despite what my grandma said 💅🏿
So she wasn't black?
Interesting...or maybe SHE was trying to make the connection with Olympia, hoping that others would hold Caesarion in higher regard?
*Fun fact:* There's a 1983 miniseries called "the Cleopatras", which tells the story of the ptolemaic dynasty from the rise of Cleopatra II until the death of Cleopatra VII. Despite being written and created by the legendary Philip Mackie (the guy who made the awesome shows "The Caesars" and "Napoleon and Love") is cheesy AF. Patrick Troughton (The Second Doctor) and Ian McNeice (the newsreader guy from "HBO's Rome") appear in it, btw
* Patrick _Troughton_
There's also an anime called Cleopatra from 1970. Very historical. (If history had a fever dream or was on drugs.)
I wish there was a dvd set of this, but it was only released on TV.
My grandma told me Cleopatra was actually an Australian, its true!
Speak your truth, queen. YAAASS!
You grandmother was obvously a melanated genius then
@@Pilot-X yeah it's true, she had a boomerang and all. I so tired of people with degrees and doctorates spending their whole life doing painstaking research and they are just totally wrong. When grandma says this it's true even if she forgot to take her medication that day....
Nah! She was from New Zeeland! And we all know that's Middle Earth, which means she had to be an Elv and able to speak Sindarin and Quenya!
Source: "Trust me bro!"😂
@@boraonline7036 hahah the trust me bro source I can not compete with 😂 first time I heard Netflix let an old lady state that I'm like wtf is wrong with the world!
That's great Lex posted that message , he is that type of guy . People hate being 'wrong' yet when someone admits to something like that people often respect them for it .
Lex is an idiot.
Would love to see Metatron on Lex's podcast.
Agreed.
oh my, are you not alive right now?
Yes
@@publichearing8536 🤣Just seeing the reply's (and my spelling mistake) now.
People today conflate patriarchy with misogyny.
it's a sometimes think, but always important line.
Imagine people would do this with genius and insanity, right...right?!?
The problem is modern western ppl tend to combine them. The whole point of the "trad movement" of the last 70ish years is that the man is in charge and the women serve the men. Along with the "wife bad" jokes are a lot of other ingrained like "women's work" that's looked down upon even though it's just as valuable as "man's work". Then you throw in the the Tates of the world and its easy to throw them both out together
They've been pretty closely linked throughout history.
Just the entire concept of "men ruling over women" implies it. It's not always so, but humans gonna human and it's never far away.
@@DanielMWJ so is every matriarchal society misandrist? Or is it implied and do they go hand in hand? No, I would never go so far as to say they do, and to say the same about patriarchy is simply uneducated.
@@Benevolent_Fafnir well beating your wife was still legal until last century in places, but i don't think that's a thing that matriarchal societies had. Idk, it's not commonly mentioned, unlike LEO famously still beating their wives. It does seem to get conflated a lot in loving memory.
Also, for the longest time women couldn't own property or even testify in court. Oh! Millions of women can't drive or even go shopping by themselves. It does seem to be linked in recent times.... it seems that modern patriarchy seems to isolate and control women, where its popular, rather that protect the mother of the children and the homemaker. Just a subtle difference there
Props to you for this analysis and big up to Lex for being open to analytical criticisms of his videos
I love how much fun you had with this review over the pronunciations 😂
I just want to point out both you and the professor mentioned Julius Caesar and Cleopatra had "kids" together. As far as I know they only had the one, Caesarion. Mark Antony and Cleopatra did have more than one child together. Great video!
Julius and Cleopatra had one, Caesarion. However, Cleopatra would go on to have 3 more by Mark Antony: Alexander Helios, Ptolemy Philadelphus, and Cleopatra Selene II. It's believed Alexander died during childhood to illness. Selene 2 was able to survive and eventually married King Juba 2 of Mauretania. She is known to have had at least one child.
No she actually had a child with Titus Pullo, not Julius Caesar.
@@KFish-bw1omhave you heard the story of how Titus Pullo brought down the republic
@@KFish-bw1om
beat me to it, darn.
😄
@@quantumskywalker6888 There's misinterpretation of Cicero that claims Cleopatra had a miscarriage while in Rome. Would that be another "child"? I'm not fond of Cicero from his nastigrams to his outright lies in legal defenses and the Philippics (not to mention changing loyalties on a dime). Here's the Cicero quote: "I am sorry about Tertulla’s miscarriage. For now we need as many Cassii to be produced as Bruti. About the Queen, I hope it is so, and about her Caesar too." --- I'm reminded of the New Testament where one sentence mentions a prostitute, and the next mentions Mary Magdalene, but they're not connected. Cicero's nastigrams are all terse and choppy referring to events we don't know. A rational analysis of the quote is that Cicero heard a rumor that applies to both Cleopatra and her son, or one rumor each. To tie it to the miscarriage, given Cicero's style, is a bit of an overreach. It could be "quartan fever", or theft of some jewelry and an injury to Ptolemy Caesar ... or maybe they fell into the Tiber on a shuttle to Caesar's house. Cicero heard a rumor and even he is not sure of it "I hope it is true". He HATED Cleopatra (possibly for not giving him a book she promised, or maybe the very remote possibility that Julius Caesar would make Ptolemy Caesar a citizen). ----- There is no other historic HINT of a miscarriage. That's it.
Cleopatra and Antony hosting those ancient Diddy parties fr
I'd love to see a video of Helena, the mother of Constantine I, and her search for the Cross. I've heard she was formidable in her quest, even to the point of torture, in hopes of securing his rule.
Holy shit, is that the expedition to the "Holy Land" that yielded the "True Cross" that everyone had a piece of by the time of the Crusades?
@@lastmanstanding-xp3ubYes, the "inventio crucis"
Irrelevant (or semi-irrelevant) sidebar: The slave Musa (sp?) was hardly the only upwardly mobile freed person. I submit the case of the enslaved Diocles, who, after becoming free, became a soldier, gained some rank in the army, then became Diocletius, then got command of a legion, took the new handle of Diocletianus (not sure which was prior in time), then was elevated to the status of emperor -- and then made sure upward mobility ended by legally binding sons to their father's status, craft, etc.
Wtf why would he do this?
Would this be his own bias doing this or essentially everyone around him being like "ok, so you managed to elite your status, we don't like it but you did. We'll live eith it, or allow YOU to live with it, but make sure it csnt wver happen again."
@blickluke It's to prevent a threat to his power? This way he knew only the aristocracy would threaten him. Narrows down who is and isn't a threat.
@@blicklukeIt does make some sense if you take into account that the practice was limited to some vital and strategical services.
If your father made equipment for the army that you had to follow in his footsteps.
That meant that, in theory, you would always have people manning those important jobs
and we have Pertinax who was the son of a freed man who became emperor after the death of Commodus - albeit his reign was very short lived
The great and terrifying pompy! And his brutal right-hand man, bloopy
Pompee was blatantly uralic
I can’t believe they cut off the head of Pompy Smurf.
Lex is awesome for reaching out
In 1899 the French president Felix Faure died in unexpected circumstances. His mistress was offering some oral entertainment to the presidential apparatus when his heart failed.
A very French way to leave this world.
His opponent George Clemenceau had this crual joke :
« Il voulut être César, il ne fut que Pompée ».
Which translates into "He wanted to be Cesar but was just Pompee"
Of course Pompee in French sounds like the past participle of the verb to pump...
On t'a vu.
I have a soft spot for Clemenceau. He is like French Churchill when comes to savage comments like this. But they were both journous, so they had pretty good training for that.
Thank you! I love your videos. I watch them with my kids (when they are interested anyway) we always have fun when we do watch together. I love your humor. Thank you so much for sharing!
As someone who loves the Asterix comic books and movies (the cartoons, more than the movies with real actors), I totally liked him saying "Pompi". It would 100% fit for one of those! 🤣🤣🤣
And that nose.
Technically, he would be Pompius or Pompeius, unless it works differetly in translated versions - all Roman characters (except for Ceasar) have names ending on "us" (and they're usually puns, though if Pompey was integrated, they would probably keep his actual name).
J’adore aussi Astérix
@@LightKnight_Age_Of
My favorite Roman name from Asterix whas Detritus.
And I love that, in the Normans book, the Gauls start laughing histerically because the Norman names all end with the same two letters.
@@quantumskywalker6888 I think Détritus overall, not just the name but the character as well, would be a fan favorite if there were a contest. La Zizanie is one of the best albums in the series (my favorite are Astérix Légionnaire, Astérix Gladiateur, Le Tour de Gaule, La Zizanie, Le Domaine des Dieux, and Astérix Mission Cléopâtre... That's quite many albums but it's difficult to pick, I realize...)
Hey Metatron a video about classical period education systems or how they educated their next generation would be interesting.
I absolutely loved that Lex episode and this reaction video to it. Thanks for providing extra context, perspective and information. I look forward to explore this channel because I'm sure I'll find lots of interest to me. Keep up the great work.
Hi Metatron! Greetings and hajimemashite from Valencia, California!
As a rule, I don't really comment on any videos at all, but the absolute excellence and quality of your content makes me feel it's necessary.
I wish to praise and applaud your deep professional preparation, presentation, reason, logic, and even-handedness combined with citation and fact-based, unbiased, appropriate historical context regarding your cultural knowledge leaves one with no other impression that this IS what a truly mature, historical imbuement of knowledge looks like. As I was once a teacher myself,
I am inspired and heartend by your cause.
Additionally, your replies and expressions often make me laugh and spit coffee from my nose so there's that.
Thanks also for your works and for your dedication with building and defending the bulwark of the spirit of uncompromising ethics in educational peerlessness.
I have no doubt our ancient and revered sages throughout the world would be proud of your efforts.
I will also note, that your authentic compassion is obvious to all.
You are much loved and profoundly apprciated.
Your show without question adds actual and real value to the lives of your viewers. and to society at large.
Warm regards,
Tom D.
P.s.
Where did you live in Japan?
I lived as a permanent for 14 years.
Did you get a chance to study the sword arts while you were there?
I am a lifelong practitioner of Kendo and Iaido.
I am also an amateur (in the true French meaning) of history in general and of Japanese history in particular.
Keep fighting on for truth and excellence Ganbatte!!
YOu understanding of the mythos of these historical times is excellent.
Thank you very much!
We all know this infamous quote from Mark Antony,
“Ai Ai Ai Ai Ai Ai, let it rain over me”
It’s always a pleasure to listen to peeps who really know their field.
Thank you :)
It would actually be so cool to see you appear on Lex's podcast, considering he commented on your video! 😃
Excellent catch on the cosplay part. Cheers for that, Metatron!
And we all know that Julius couldn't get it up. Titus Pullo was really Caesareans dad.
No joke. There's a body of thought that Caesar was impotent in the sense he could not produce children. He was a massive philanderer sleeping with any woman who would part her legs (including the wives of both members of the 1st Triumvirate). Yet, in all historic documents there's not one mention of any bastards. Julia was his one legitimate child. It was rumored that Brutus was another .... but with all his promiscuous behavior, no others ever appeared. According to Marc Antony, Caesar believed Ptolemy Caesar was his ... the rest is speculation.
There's actual a suggestion that Caesar was impotent in the sense that he couldn't make babies. He slept with any woman who would open her legs all across the known world including wives of senators (in particular the wives of the first triumvirate). He had ONE acknowledged child: Julia. His enemies also suggested Brutus was his child (strong possibility).
However, in all that philandering, no bastards ever appeared in history. If Cleopatra couldn't give him a baby, she'd be caste aside like all his other queens ... She was pregnant when he left. Was it Caesars? ... She *HAD* to give him a boy. Was it even hers?
As an Italian, i know whats really your problem with "Pompi".... xD
I'm curious 😂
@@Xairos84it's oral sex but I didn't tell you😂
Like in afrikaans to pomp
@@Xairos84 In Italian Pompi is called Pompeo. The word "pompi" reminds of "pompino" which means "blowjob".
In Romanian it is just the diminutive of Pompiliu, still a rather funny name.
Nice follow up. I've been watching the clips on the Lex interviews on the subject of Rome. Good stuff.
I could see Pompi turned into a Monty Python routine
I wonder if Pomi knew Biggus Dickus? 🥸
@@happymouse8426 that is too funny.come to me Pompi.
For an Italian Pompey (or Pompii) reminds us of something else xD xD
@andrews.5212 As and Italian I can't help laughing. I'm Sorry 😂😂😂
Don't be nasty now!
😂
Tiramisu?
Pwease ewabowate?
Celtic Women had a bit more rights than just land owning. Celtic Women, in particular Irish Celtic Women, could choose/reject their intended husbands, could divorce their husbands and leave on January 1st, could participate in governmental councils, and if attacked women were the last line of defense for the children. Celtic Women were buried with honors according to their status in the community. Also, the deity of war for Celts (Continental, Ireland and British isles) was a Woman. If you wanted to win you had to court her favor or accept her favor if she was so inclined to give it.
I lost it with you at the Pompi part! I'm dying 😂😂😂 Pompi sounds like an Animal Crossing or Hello Kitty character 😂😂😂
😂
Thank you Metatron, for knowing your history.
Cleopatra was of Hellenic race (Ancient Greek) . From the Ancient Greek City Sate, Macedonia.
I love how sure everyone is about something and someone from circa 30 bc, yet we can’t agree on something that is currently happening in real time.
My favourite Italian
Second, after Caesar.
@@jonbaxter2254Tribune Aquila does not approve of this message
He is Sicilian mostly Greek genes in the south
Mario?
@@jonbaxter2254 Caesar was Swedish
In fact it is a myth that she was this great beauty, she was Greek, She was highly respected for her high level of intelligence even by her enemies. That says alot about her. As far as how beautiful she may or may not have been thats i think mostly speculation not historically verified. Like say Justinians wife who was regarded as oh so beautiful even by her enemies.
Even if she wasn't a great beauty, you gotta remember she had the wealth to basically have Kardashian level makeup, jewelry, etc
@@RollingCalf yes you also have to consider what was considered beautiful in those days. I doubt she went to the gym. There are some historians who argue that she well not trying to be rude may have been not petite.
Indeed she was not in antiquity, contemporarily or by histories, usually referred to as classically beautiful physically but like some women very alluring, charming, sensual and sexually attractive. She appears to have been one of those people that catch and hold the eye or dominate a room by their presence.
@@CmoreChap I don't think I could've said it that well but I completely agree.
Given the level of inbreeding it is unlikely that she was a... pick a beautiful celeb. I don't really remember any. However beauty standards were different back then. To be fat was not considered a bad thing because the wealth tended to be fat. They had the wealth to be leisurely. One can still find those aspects in certain Orient/South East Asian cultures. It is more a modern Western view that fat people are derided. Just like in some cultures for a man to grow a beard was considered improper unless they were of wealth. Proper grooming and all that is a mark of distinction.
So while we may not find her beautiful, people of her age likely did. Plus she had that whole presence/charisma aspect in that she seemed to have a knack for dominating men in subtle ways.
I really like that intro music Metatron
3:47 "Pompi" was the nickname we gave the dimwitted (even by bull standards), but massive, bull we had, back when I lived in my home village, so hearing him calling Pompey that made actually laugh out loud
Love it!!! Thanks for the giggle.
And pompey is also the nickname of Portsmouth Football Club.
Can anybody answer why the Ptolemies as a whole are never the topic of discussion? It is always Cleopatra VII. Her entire family spanning back to Ptolemy I are INSANE! They are the most incestuous, homicidal and backstabbing dynasties ive ever read about. Their family structure clearly inspired the Targaryens in game of thrones. But the individual members are nut jobs. There is so much drama and death im surpised they are not the most talked about and infamous royal families to ever live .
Casting aspersions, here. The first three Ptolemies took a defunct country and built an empire reminiscent in expanse to the height of pharaonic Egypt. Ptolemy's II-III ruled the Mediterranean with a fleet of 800 warships ... a good number, twin triremes strapped together with a fighting platform containing catapults and polyabolos. As for Ptolemies IV-XII, you're right: homicidal & backstabbing -- you forgot running the country into bankruptcy. Despite the Egyptian religious Isis-Osiris thing, the incest was a practical matter of keeping tight control over power. Nothing to do with "royal bloodline". It was all business. .... As an aside, when a Ptolemy died (for whatever reason) the first son generally ascended to the throne. Sons did NOT like ruling with their mothers, and generally executed them ... except the one that got away by reading the writing on the wall and escaping to Syria (where she became a queen).
I'd like for Metatron to address the science behind how could so much inbreeding lead to this so called "beautiful, intelligent, powerful leader. Just the thought of how much inbreeding that was going on is just disgusting to me.
Because #GirlPower
@@beeel6383 I'm not Metatron but ... inbreeding concentrate traits. Often the traits we notice are the ones which cause disfigurement (Habsburg Lip, for example) or death, but it also concentrates 'good' traits, such as intelligence or beauty. If enough of it happens in one family you get lots of early deaths, idiots, and nutbags, but you may also get brilliant beautiful offspring.
This is the basis of breeding livestock - you choose for the traits you want and either kill, or don't breed, the offspring which don't have the desirable traits. Eventually, you get a breed with the good traits and (mostly) not the bad.
@@clasdauskas You just described animals and not human beings.
4:20 whether you say pompay or pompee or whatever thats the reaction I've always had to his name. it doesnt help that the name is so close to pompous
Pompi in spanish is slang for petite butt.
Hello Metatron! Thank you for the video. I personally think, that Octavianus did not want to kill Cleopatra. On the contrary, he very much wanted her captured alive and in good looking. Then he would have dressed her as goddess Isis and show her off on his triumph not just a captured foreign queen, but a captured living goddess Isis! That would have been a truly monumental propaganda triumph and Octavianus would be though of as a mythical hero, like Hercules.
Hey Lorgar, while you're hiding out in your basement scribbling on scrolls and whining to the Gods of Chaos, your favorite bro Guilliman is out there getting shit DONE! When you gonna get back out there? Hmm? Your sons are wildin' out.
I doubt it. Court poet Horace calls her a demented queen for daring to oppose Rome. Octavia would have dragged her behind his triumphal chariot and then they would have either strangled her or thrown her from the Tarpeian hill.
There is some overlap in these scenarios.
The capture and parading of a living God is quite the propaganda piece. Especially in a time period where belief in the gods was almost tangible. To subjugate a god and have her grant her eternal blessing to the Empire would be very powerful. That being said, her defiance could also be a grave danger. That's why you keep her kids hostage until you have no further need of her.
Which is something the Romans were quite known for.
@@esmeraldagreen1992 octavia is a girls name
Cleopatra was a khajiit from elder scrolls
It’s okay to be Anglo Saxon
Duh
In fact, some might say it’s right to be Anglo Saxon
no
Survive the Jive
Hell yeah! 😎👉🏻👉🏻
It’s truly inspiring to see you naturally get the recognition you deserve, for simply doing great work and remaining humble
The absolute glee with the Pompie part.... so wholesome.... Thank you... that was a good chuckle at a much needed time.
Metatron laughing at English pronunciation of Pompi reminds me of my friend from Pakistan breaking into a giggle for at my English pronunciation of Tikka Masala 😅
There’s another way to pronounce it?
@@JadeLeaf1980 teeka masul
@@peterfyal4998 none of the Bangladeshi men who run the store and restaurant we use to get our freshly made tikka masala have ever pronounced it that way to us lol.
Saying that though, it’s mostly their kids we deal with and they all have Edinburgh accents like us lol.
Tikka masala isnt often pronouced in pakistan as its a dish from UK (makes little sense, means without sauce gravy).
Punjabi, Pashto, Sindhi, Saraiki, Urdu, Balochi, Hindko, Gujari, Kashmiri, and Brahui are some of the 14 major languages in Pakistan, drive town to town and people pronounce everything differently in Pakistan
@@JadeLeaf1980 I'm just messing haha. I think he means that most dishes are actually british and trying to get one in India or Pakistan wouldn't result in anything more that a "huh".
You should make a playlist of all of these videos analyzing this episode of Lex's podcast.
You're the perfect person to break it all down, do more of this my noble one
My grandma always told me, “It doesn’t matter what teachers say, Cleopatra was an 80 year old Chinese man with toe fungus.”
Even my History Teacher in Fift Grade, (I Loved my History Teacher so much) said how Cleopatra spent a lot of Time in the Library of Alexandria reading and learning! And so she learned Several Languages!
Plutarch reports 8 languages, but he omits Greek which she would have learned in her crib. He also omits Latin which was the major language of power in the Med, which she would have been a fool not to learn. Then he hedges his bet with "and many more." It's documented that she wrote books on philosophy, medicine (2), mathematics, alchemy, magic, and cosmetics. Guess which one survived to 400 ACE.
@@KleopatraKebab She probably knew Latin since she Married Gaius Iulis Caeser!
@@tomislavnagy8715 No marriage. No evidence of marriage with either of her brothers, or her son. Only recorded marriage is with Marc Antony.
@@tomislavnagy8715 Uh ... no recorded marriage. Just a child.
@@KleopatraKebab I know they had a Son, but my History teacher in 5th Grade told me they where Married.
Pointing out that Cleopatra displaying as Isis as a cultural/religious action was not nitpicking; it was an important detail to be clarified. She was definitely a striking person in history, and had few peers in the annals of history.
She is striking but actions werent as influential as how elizabeth 1 or catherine the great mattered in history.
But it's the context that is key. A lot of writings from Roman sources mentioned her dressing up with Marc Antony while drinking a lot with many others around. Sure it's a cultural thing for Egyptians. The point being made is this was different as per the sources
I agree with Metatron (easy call). There are a number of images of Cleopatras-as-Isis in Dendera (easy lookup) alongside a teenage Ptolemy Caesar (who at the time was a toddler). It's all religious significance tied up with propaganda. There are stylistic images of her as Isis remaining. The two legitimate statues of her (IMHO) in Berlin and the Rosicrucian show her as Queen, but she holds an ankh ... an Isis symbol. She also holds a cornucopia, but that intentionally ties her to Arsinoe II. All cleverly thought out symbology for the mass of Egyptians. Caesar built a temple of Venus in his forum (claimed to be an ancestor). He placed a gilt statue of Cleopatra-as-Isis-as-Venus in there that was seen until the 4th century ACE ... It was serious business.
@@KleopatraKebab don't think anyone is disputing anything you said. We're talking about when it happened with Marc Antony in the last year of her life and the written accounts of it
@@zachNFL25 To be fair, Antony was never considered a "king" of Egypt despite the marriage. He was just her husband. Dionysus had nothing to do with Egyptian religion. Why would they care? It always struck me as "I can do that too" and Cleopatra just let him run. I think "cosplay" is a strong word ... but I don't see how it would affect Egyptians. Maybe he did it for the territories of the East? Or maybe just for fun. Or maybe as Met described.
I love history and it’s wonderful that you can actually hear a more accurate version through this gentleman. Another one of my favourites to listen to is Tom Holland. I can listen to these guys for hours. Thank you for your video.🇨🇦
It's refreshing to hear someone speak so quickly and succinctly. Thought he was at 1.5x
What if he called him Pompino?
👀😂
Peppino Spaghetti
@@def3ndr887 Caccio e Peppe!!
Pompinolli, pompinolli, whats on my pocketolli.
Pompinho
I mean Cleopatra did influence Egyptian being written and taught again since she was the first one to reintroduce it but it did eventually die down through time.
Ye that's what I mean by "if she had won" then sure it would have been very influential, but she lost.
She was influential in her time but nothing really that carries on to today, unlike lets say Octavian who basically founded the roman empire and was basically the ideal throughout its wntire existance and roman empir ehad profound impact on europe which can be felt in the entire world… also hes got a month named after him
Not exactly. Alexandria was the power center (like Washington DC in the USA), separate from the rest of the country. Greek was the language of Alexandria and all administration, including the nomes. However, peasant Egyptians were still speaking Egyptian as they had for 1000's of year. It's kind of the other way around. Cleopatra tapped into the vast majority that already spoke Egyptian. This was a clever move along with her identification with Isis to show unity with the country, rather than another elitist Greek that just ordered them around.
@@kingkibble it's funny how you call the Greeks elitist as though it's a humble thing to claim to be a literal goddess in the flesh deserving of worship and not just political submission as a governor. Cleopatra loved power and pursued it. She lost the game of thrones and lost her life for her failure to gain absolute power.
i personally love when you are nit picking. i am part of the people who don t really know much about history unfortunately and i like to think that i can always rely on your videos for accurate informations and yes i also want the details, so please never stop. ❤🤘
I would really like you to cover the part about Rome absorbing Greece and how influential was Greek culture on Rome.
And how the ancient Greece was influenced by the Mesopotamia, the Levant and Egypt. The whole Mediterranean cultures are so entwined.
Fun Fact, Queen Isabella I of Castilla did more and had a million times more impact on the world than Cleopatra could ever even dream of.
Million times? :)
@@Alexanderrr3r well, I'm exaggerating. Maybe only 100 times. But still....
Its not at all wrong to bring Isabella up.
But she did have a husband and they did rule together.
Altough by all accounts Isabella was indeed the main force behind some pretty important historical facts.
She absolutely destroys Cleopatra any day of the week.
@@Ruimas28 Cleopatra is not a good example of successful female monarch indeed, Elizabeth I of England and Ekaterina II of Russia are even more impressive examples, however, people are captivated by Cleopatra's story not because how good as a ruler she was.
@@Ruimas28 King Fernando did her bidding. She was the brains and the force.
here, Metatron, have some more Pompees, as you seemed to be having fun: Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee Pompee
Anyway, as a middle aged American, I don't think I've ever heard anyone pronounce it that way. before
The Pompey break is one of those necessary reminders that under his educated exterior Metatron still retains the heart of a boy!! Absolutely adorable!
I visited Egypt in 1999. It was the most beautiful place and I felt like I was transported back in time as I walked through the Valley of the Kings and Queens as well as places like Luxor or walking through the museum of Cairo.
I haven't shed a tear from laughter in a very long time until the Pompey or rather "Pompi" bit killed me. All i can hear in my head is "Come back to bed Pompi"
You said "we don't hear about the slave who became queen of Parthia." I would counter we don't hear about Parthia. There were four great empires at that time, Rome, China, Parthia, and Kushan (I had to look up to be sure I had that last one right).
Regarding influential women in history, the first four that come to my mind:
Eleanor of Aquitaine - through her, England controlled more than a third of France for about 200 years.
Elizabeth I - laid the ground work to form the British Empire
Victoria I - ruled what was arguably the greatest empire in recorded history
Elizabeth II - ended that empire, established the commonwealth, and reigned through the entire Cold War, while the leaders of Russia and America came and went.
It's a bit debatable how much real power esp. the later English queens had. But they were figureheads and symbols for sure.
Even with Eleanor it's a bit like what Metatron said: Her power came from her father, husband and sons. It was a lot of power though.
Constitutional monarchy means an asterisk to Victoria and Elizabeth II. Margaret Tacher, in my opinion, made more an impact on her own. Not a good impact, but generations feel it.
@@mapletree3434 True. In a similar vein Angela Merkel.
I'm glad Lex watched your video of your analysis of his. I think it would be pretty cool if he would invite you! I'm actually shocked people haven't yet.
The amount of things I have learned from your channel, is amazing! Thank you for everything you do!
Pompi sounds like Bambi
I wish that more people could criticize things in such a fair, balanced and evidence based way. You are a relic of a lost time, and I thank you for staying true to values that are steadily disappearing. Thank you for spreading your wings!
It's great hearing your conterpoints. You make these details come alive.
"... the great and powerful statesman, Pom-pee...🤦♂️😅🤣"
dude, you're a gem, bro. never change 😏🤜🤛
Ahah thanks
My grandmother always said "Remember that dude Pompi?"
You forget the great king of Egypt Pepi. Also a very cute name, beats Pompi anytime.
Hey, I remember that name from Horrible Histories.
Very good analysis as usual, Metatron. The legend of Cleopatra presents the perfect canvas with which people can project their own values seeing as how little we really know about her. Thanks for covering this some more. Keep up the good work!
Totally beside the point, but I would LOVE you to talk about the Pharoah Queen Hatshepsut. I know the biggest shock to her was, despite her ruling a period of growth, had most of her hieroglyphs destroyed, now thought to be political warfare. But I think you could really talk about her in such a great way considering how you speak of Cleopatra. Also, no one talks about her lol.
Love this video and all I watched previous. The fact you provide historical docs/examples is more than most do.
You are so well versed in history! You need to get out and get on some of the podcasts I would love to hear your takes on historic things in a podcast setting!
15:50 No, Egypt was conquered directly after her death in 31 BC, meaning his point of her being a capable leader of independence is correct
I mean Egypt *was* independent while she was co-ruling it with her husband-brother. Despite pressure from Rome and other Mediterranean powers trying to annex Egypt. Egypt being conquered soon after her death was *because* her death came soon after her primary backer, Mark Antony was defeated in battle, meaning there was nothing left she could have done. She backed the losing commander, there was no political maneuvering that could have been done at that point to keep Egypt independent. It had nothing to do with her being an incompetent leader. Octavius was just the better military commander.
@pacmonster066 Agrippa was the military mind and had the primary role in defeating the Egypto-Antonian forces. Although, that isn't to say Octavian didn't have a primary role in another critical area because he, in fact, was the #1 political agent and developer/disseminator of propaganda against Antony & Cleopatra. Whch practically guaranteed she wouldn't be able to rule even as a client-Queen or subordinate ruler inside his Empire. So not only was the point about their defeats militarily stripping her political maneuverability true, Octavians propaganda machine & political manipulation likely also blocked any hopes of her conniving a favorable outcome with Rome also.
Well it depends.
Rome was very involved in egyptian affaires way before her, or even her father.
That's why Cleo neded a roman protector, first Caesar and then Antony
@@leonardoferrari4852 Romans had been used to settle dynastic disputes at least as far back as Cleopatra's grandfather. The only reason Cleopatra's father was sitting on the throne was because 2,500 Roman soldiers fought Egyptian troops and put him there (they remained). Gabinius lead the Romans, and he answered to Pompey. Pompey was Egyptian support in Rome. Caesar had already tried to annex Egypt, so Cleopatra had to act to stay independent. With Caesar gone, Octavian and Antony were about equal in power. Antony was easier to get to, and better funded. That's why Octavian's claim in the Senate that Egypt wanted to war with Rome is ridiculous. Egypt needed Rome. The whole war-with-Egypt was a cover-up (and the Senate knew it) for a civil war with Antony.
@@KleopatraKebab It was not.
It was inevitable that Octavian and his rival would eventually fight.
Anthony wanted to use Egypt as a platform for his campaign against the parthians, if he had been left to his own devices he would have retourned to Rome to challenge Octavian.
Cleopatra bet on the wrong horse
However , actually caring for someone in what is a transactional relationship is not uncommon. A contemporary criticism of Julius Caesar was that he was smitten by Cleopatra VII, not just having a child with her.
Also that little bit that he was already married to a Roman woman.
@@kaltaron1284 Yes, a woman who was only 5 years older than Cleopatra, and his third wife, while he maintained a long term affair with Servilia, the mother of Brutus. He probably spent more time with Cleopatra during the siege of Alexandria than he did the whole of his marriage to Calpurnia at that time, being that he was in Gaul most of it.
@@Rikalonius Makes you wonder who was keeping him company in Gaul.
I sincerly hope, Lex invites you to his podcast! You should talk about the misconceptions about the medieval period. And a little pretencious lesson in classical latin pronounciation
I’ve always enjoyed Prof. Aldrete’s Great Courses programs. One of my favorites is his course on “History’s Great Military Blunders snd the lesson they teach.”
Great content & giving credit when due. The Metatron has my respect, and subscription.
Lol, the internet keeps trying to convince us that Lex Fridman is a super genius.
Surely no one believes it
I don't even know who this lex guy is.
He certainly does not come across as intelligent but he is obviously far above average.
To be fair - I do not think he promotes himself as a genius.
@@atheistbushman well he has constantly lied about his education and his role working at universities..
@@zachNFL25can you elaborate?
What about Herod the Great? How did he go from ally to subject? How did he go from effective leader to the madman we see in the Gospels?
Probably cancel culture or something
“How he went from a leader to a madman"
Some people get struck by a god complex, Herod and Alexander were one of them. It developed little by little, but it grew and got worse over time. It's a form of narcissism.
Keep in mind there are four different Herods in the Gospels.
The Great
Antipas
Agrippa
Archelaus
Phillip.
Wait, that's five. 🤦🏼♂️🙇🏼♂️
Basically, the Jews in Judea at that time were a bit rebellious, and Herod the Great did a better job of tamping that down than his successors did. One of his sons lost his realm due to a rebellion. It's complicated, and I forgot half of it. I've gotta go brush up!
And he also had a wife called Cleopatra (Cleopatra of Jerusalem)
Well to be fair from roman perspective he was probably a nice guy and just ignore the bad parts, from christian side ignore the good parts and demonize him so you get that… he was probably somewhere in between who knows
My grandmother always told me, every single day, “I don’t care what authenticated records say, Cleopatra announced that the McRib is back!”
When you reached for your headphones at the beginning, I thought you were reaching for a tinfoil hat! 😆 A lot of creators have one as a prop.
Thanks for another great video.
✌🏻💜😇
That Lex podcast had to be the most interesting and entertaining engaging podcast I ever heard
Armor and Alexander next.
Pompi husband of Gonorrhea Magna, doughter of Caius of Penisium.