@@TheDsIEGE Yet on the other hand with the coming of the Duvari paradox, has anyone considered that the Man in the Wall is our selves? Perhaps our adult split selves left in the void? What would happen if the child and the adult unite? To me the Orokin are independent of the Tenno. The Orokin were only too happy to exterminate the Tenno upon being found until Margulas plead for Tenno lives. We are seen as void demons, even as mentioned by Balas. We shall have to hurry up and wait to find out.
@@CuChulainnwd If Tenno were the asked price of Man In the Wall, the Orokin would be very happy to exterminate them. Probably they were very afraid of Man and didn't want any of his influence in the system, so they wanted to kill Tenno. But Tenno proved to just way too useful. Hmmm did Man in the Wall plan all that? Make a deal with 7 emperors of Orokin (say give them immortality), for a small price, 1 ship full of people. Change children for possible vessels for him to influence the outside world, but make them too valuable, for Orokin to just erase. Now suddenly Man in the Wall sounds exactly like some demon/devil wanting to pact and influence people and get out of hell (void).
@@magearamil8626 You forget that the Emperoros wanted nothing to do with the Tenno. It was Margulas that save them, then Balas that saw the use of the Tenno as weapons of war to fight against the Sentients. No deals were to be struck or made, This was purely Balas' operation. Balas it "appears' was just as content to get rid of his competition.
@@ricardomedina6353false, while this fiction might have drawned somr inspiration from the bible, this is based on the SCP fiction, which is a collaborative-writing site, with a horror and cosmic-horror setting. This one specifically refers to scp-231. "Seven seals, Seven rings, Seven brides to The Scarlet King".
we already knew the Zariman incident was not an accident. We have known for years that the ship was rigged to lose power outside the void so that it would drift in. We also know that the Zariman was a warship and civilians were not allowed on these ships even for evacuation purposes, which stumped the people who rediscovered the ship once it drifted out of the void again. It has been in the lore for years and should still be there in game unless it was removed via updates. Some of it was sprinkled in the descriptions and stories of the different prime frames, other parts within the personal targets for the Sanctuary with Cephalon Simaris, and other parts sprinkled elsewhere, in numerous places.
The zariman was a military ship no? Before the void incident, the children were training in the discipline of a soldier. So I'm guessing all the families were military.
@@JojoTheVulture Actually the children were not trained for military until after the void incident. And nothing in the lore says what their families did before. Edit: Look at some of the old prime warframe descriptions for some of the lore I am talking about. These descriptions I don't believe are in the game anymore but should still be online somewhere. The descriptions told a story about that warframe though and gave lots of info into the old war.
@@samuelplyler1511 oh, I thought when the operator talks about their training that they were talking about a time when they were still with their family
if you want to know the finger is then yu should look at tennos hand and then it is your answer to that it can be the ma in the wall but it can be one of the seven oreken
@@rasmusjansson9448 the man in the wall is the personification of the void, a form it takes to speak to us, and since that is a void power reactor, instead of seeing energy, as everyone else most likely do, we see a part of the personification of the void, in this case being the man in the wall's finger.
Crew was gone... or were they changed? Consider the possibility that the tenno are the souls of the character we see in the duviri paradox. It would explain why a crew were originally on the ship with no children, and suddenly the ship had children and no ship. Makes me even question the zariman that made the trip back. I mean, there's one in the void still. Could the zariman that actually made the trip back to the orokin be a fake?
@@TheDsIEGE i mean in the war within it is pretty clear that there are adults and children on the ship at the same time, it might also mention that it was a colony ship which would make the entry kinda none canon anymore. Also the Ember entry doesnt say that there were no children on the ship before it got lost, it only stated that there shouldnt be any, which is why people have always theoriezed that the orokin did the whole zariman thing on purpose
@@TheDsIEGE Considering the time rifts on Lua, that are supposedly the byproduct of pulling the moon out of the void so suddenly, and the fact that the guy in the Durivi Paradox trailer seems to see his younger self hiding that Tigris in the hole in the ground (that did not look like a memory to me), I think it is possible that time in the Void works completely differently than in our space. Moreover, the word "paradox" is most commonly used in fiction in relation to time mechanics plots (time travel to be more specific). I think it is possible that whatever is going to happen in the Durivi Paradox may lead us to visiting or witnessing the Zariman Ten Zero in a state before its return to the Orokin space.
@@TheDsIEGE See, something tells me WE are the man in the wall. Our adult selves trapped in the void communicating with our child selves. This is leading up to the Duvari Paradox.
The most interesting stories or of Pawns suddenly made into Players. But yeah it sounds very likely that minds of Tenno were split into two. One with memories pf Zariman was left inside Void, and that we call Man in the Wall.
What if the death of the 7 was actually them breaking their alliances and each going their own way. 1 got inside one of the Sisters to rule the grineer and use her as an excuse so that the little Sister always revive her. 1 took control of the corpus. 1 took control of Erra since we saw in the latest quest that Erra should be dead. 1 could have been consumed by the infested and strenghten their bonds. 1 could control the orokin turrets. 1 could be in the void (duviri paradox). The last one could be the unum.
@@Megalomaniakaal don't think so. He's back story shows that he met inaros as a Child. Someone could make an arguement about his age but then you must remember that darvo is 180+years old and he is considered to be a teenager.
I certainly wouldn't deny the possibility that the void being gave the Orokin immortality and the potentially limitless power of the void, one which bypasses all science and logic. These are both something that the Orokin have clearly pursued at any cost in their quest to become gods. Also, since the lotus was imprisoned and controlled by the Orokin it's proof that whatever she was telling you to do was direct command of the Orokin and represented their current agenda, which seems to be wiping out all of their past mistakes and perhaps trying again once the storm has calmed?
Two points of note. First, the most relevant, that partly works against the theory, but at the same time, works very much in favour. The Duviri have been mentioned before, by Solaris. Random chatter occasionally mentions them, you can find quotes on the Wiki. And from what we've heard, they're just people. Absurdly rich people, but a being of the void, of pure soul, most likely doesn't have a wife, a body, and probably doesn't need a spaceship to travel across the system, let alone paying for deliveries. But at the same time, since we know the Duviri are connected with the void, this does mean that the idea of Orokin survivors or Orokin pretenders/successors traipsing around in the background and messing with living in the void is more or less completely confirmed as canon. Secondly, regarding the Lotus. It's becoming more and more likely to me that she's being manipulated. I remember posting a comment on a previous video a while back posing some of my initial concerns, but even beyond some very strange logic like 'Why would the Orokin dissuade her from Killing the Tenno but not deposing the Orokin', there's also some symbolism. For one, Warframe loves its dualism, and one way this can be seen is in the Lotus's name. In eastern religions which the Tenno are often associated with, the Lotus flower is a symbol of enlightenment - of gaining knowledge, coming to terms with one's true self. But in western, classical mythology, which the Toga-wearing Orokin seem to lean towards, the Lotus fruit is a corrupting symbol of mind control, that manipulates and wipes away memories, leaving the eater malleable and a husk of their former self. Following that, there's Erra. Erra is a direct mythological reference, to the Akkadian god of Mayhem and Pestilence, who's major role in that mythology was to arise from a deep slumber (woken, it should be noted, by an advisor and seven sons) to manipulate the rulers of Babylon and lead an army of living weapons to destroy humanity. It matches what Lotus has done, yes, but if she's currently under mind control, it would also match Erra pretty closely. Even Lotus's behaviour seems to match. In the Erra quest, she's not behaving like her old self, or even how she is in the Ropalolyst fight. In the Sacrifice, she seems normal, save her makeover, her shaky voice and her new allegiance. In the Ropalolyst fight, however, there's something off about her dialogue. She's been a fairly straight-laced character before now for several years, but she opens her soliloquy with a metaphor. "Our history is smoke", and her entire speech is full of such flowery speech which is a bit out of character, but is very much so from what little of Erra we've seen. And then, in the Erra quest, there's this moment which actually crops up in the video: 9:18 Ballas is reporting on the state of the system, mentions the Tenno, and as soon as he does so, Lotus immediately launches into a non-sequitur about how they are 'the enemy'. Nobody seems particularly phased by the interruption either, as if this isn't the first time she's reacted like this to the mention of the Tenno by name. Almost as if it was a programmed response. And given that she's definitely got some connection to the void, perhaps even immunity to it, the motivation for an underhanded tactic like that certainly exists.
I just thought if something, the key vor has plus the key those new guys have(on DE's Twitter) plus ours, what if the keys are scattered throughout the system.
@@RoegadynEnjoyer Thats what I was thinking. They Janus key gave Vore the power to live within the Void, a door to an alternate realm. I think each of these keys will have a different ability to give to our drive, and maybe the Janus key will allow it to enter the Void.
I'd always had the thought that either the tenno were/possessed shards of the man in the wall's mind, (like how rell's consciousness split in the harrow quest), or that he was to the tenno what tenno are to the warframes, wanting to wear them as a physical body. He viewed rell as he viewed himself, saying something like "I'll not let you take me away from me" or something like that in the harrow mission. That always stood out to me
I read an interesting theory that said that when the zariman ship passed through the void, it sent the tenno forward in time. This is why the operators we play as don't remember the old war. Then, the tenno that fought the orokin are the adult operators we see in the duviri trailer. This would make the old war a future event in the lives of the operator we play as, despite it being a past event. Ultimately, we will later be sent back in time to fight the orokin. This would probably be revealed at the end of the new war quests. To me this answers the questions of why the operators dont remember the old war but kinda remember being on the zariman ship and how the tenno managed the defeat the orokin when they should've been literal children. If you know of any contradictory lore lmk before I get excited over this theory
Would also explain how we've barely developed our powers, but have been described as literal gods on the battlefield. I think you're onto something here. Plus the fact that it IS kinda paradoxical. We exist now, thousands of years later, unaged and asleep even though we were once god like beings on the battlefield. Seems nuts
OKAY, had a tinfoil hat moment, anyone else just notice how the queens are missing a single finger on each hand... dun dun dunnnnnnnnn and what if... since the orokin are basically space wizard gods who have the ability to teleport planets -- what if they also have the power to shrink planets, or an entire galaxy, what if sentients are like the size of ants and that seemingly giant finger is actually -- yeah.. just a normal sized finger in a miniature space ship-- "what if they shrunk our galaxy?" is basically what i keep thinking, especially after seeing that huge finger, mostly started thinking that after noticing the archwing quests turn you tiny. anyways just another wild one for the maybes ALSO, almost forgot, the index finger of every single OP suit is cutout and has a different pattern, what if its just our finger, pre shrink.
the index finger is probably different bc its also the trigger finger and even if we dont use guns the design is pretty classic in sci-fi. also i doubt that the orokin had the ability to shrik entire galaxies or even just our solar system considering that getting to the closest star to them was pretty difficult
I don't think they could shrink a galaxy, but throwing it into limbo (void) like Lua is possible. The orokin may have experimented around it alot and created unstable void portals as we have experience in Lua Spy missions
The ports around the finger theory is really cool, I'd love to have multiple quests to take us to different places to acquire different keys. That'd be epic.
There is another line in Ember prime's description that kinda confirms this whole thing. "Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?" I thought the Zariman was a colonization ship soooo i'm kinda leaning towards it was indeed a cover up story for something else. But ... Why the hell Wally wants this deal? Pre-accident he supposed to be free in some way before Rell stoped him unless he was restricted to not enter the material plane in which case he can use the children as vessels. If none of this is true than really ... why? Whats the point of him making a deal with the Orokin?
I think its so he can manifest. My biggest piece of evidence for this is we have no lore over Wally before Rell (and Ill have to replay that mission for its lore significance anyways), and that the version of Vore thats cut in 2 never leaves the void. I think that Wally is stuck in the Void, and that he needs his power to be outside the void for him to manifest. As a trade to the emperors, they would get immortality and Wally would get a ship full of people sent into the Void for him to "corrupt". The adults went man from it, but the kids gained power. Thats why we never see him before the War Within. The Tenno are left inside the Void, thus his power doesn't ever escape. Once we're on the Orbiter, he finally starts manifesting and showing up to us. I think the finger might either be part of his physical form from inside the Void, or just a wild goose chase to throw us off. Either way, I feel like during the New War, we're going to let off a massive Bomb comprised of Void Energy to kill the sentients, and I think thats surge in void energy will be what allows "Wally" to finally manifest into a permanent physical form. And once that happens, I do not think he will be on our side. He's on HIS side.
@@TheDsIEGE dude, I appreciate you, and just someone putting out intelligent warframe content with actual knowledge of the story, I like being able to treat these things almost as actual happenings, as opposed to an escape from reality
@@drifter61 That's why I do it. Something to entertain, maybe make you think a little, but first and foremost, take your mind off whatever stresses you might have, if for only 10 or so minutes. If I did that, I achieved my goal.
What if the man in the wall is the 7? A being composed of both the void and their minds allowing them true immortality across all of space and time as part of the void?
@Colgate is great Maybe the Man in the wall is ourselves, our adult split selves trapped in the void, see Duvari Paradox. What happens should adult and child unite?
@Colgate is great has no form or shape? Have you not been paying attention? Every time we see the man in the wall it looks like a reflection of (wait for it) ...... US. Who says the man in the wall has to be a separate entity? We do not know how the void works yet either. Your understanding and conjecture is just as valid as mine at this point.
@Colgate is great Natah's accounts are not quite to be trusted though are they? Why do we have to fight this war when the Orokin are dead? (Pretty much) This whole new war is pointless. The big reason we keep hearing the Sentients are coming is to smash the Orokin. The Tenno did that. Seems to me Natah likes to with hold information or seed disinformation. Not the first time she has done that either is it? Either way, we could both be wrong. The speculation in this story is entertaining. We shall all just have to hurry up and wait.
You've got a pretty interesting theory. But some things are still bugging me. Yes it's true that the Orokin 'created' the Tenno, but the Tenno in general are referred to the Warframe not the Operator as their existence is unknown to many except a few. Also, the Kuva Lich. Aren't they immortal as well? They can't be killed unless it is with a Parazon and the correct Requiem Mods. Isn't it possible that the Tenno used the Parazon or something similar to exterminate the Seven? And Rell, he had Oro but he died as well. Plus, if the Zariman was a sacrifice, why were the Tenno treated the way they were by the Orokin?
I doubt the whole idea of them being a sacrifice, but the parazon being used to execute the seven is a pretty solid idea. That said, in my opinion, Rell died because he had no body for his oro to return to. We were kept in cryo pods, but his body died long ago. By destroying Harrow, his oro pretty much left it's only possible host.
Oro doesn't make you completely immortal, there are a few ways for someone possessing Oro to die. Mirage, for example, had her Oro absorbed by a mother sentient, and effectively died. I like your parazon idea, though I'm not sure if it would work on someone who possesses Oro, assuming the 7 did. The tenno have other ways of killing someone with Oro, as the only ones who can kill an individual who possesses Oro is another individual who does.
Kuva immortality is different from Oro immortality, Beings that have oro can only be killed by other beings with oro, kuva is a kinda lesser form of immortality, the parazon is mainly a just a tool to deliver whatever the requiem mods are, its probably some stuff that messes with the kuva and stops the lich from being able to come back, steve use the word frequency speciffically when he first talked about them, this reminded me on how specific frequencies bring down entire buildings if they vibrate in the correct frequency. Anyways i doubt that this was necessary to kill the Seven as we also didnt need something like that to kill Rell. I also remember something about beings with oro killing other beings with oro because they kinda consume it before the sole can escape and occupy a new body
Hmmm, there is also another possibility I’ve never heard anyone consider...... what if “the man in the wall” is actually one of the seven who betrayed the other 6 because he saw what was going to happen, that his race was doomed to fail. Or that the universe was doomed to fall because of their arrogance in creating the sentients. It would explain why he keeps saying “you owe me kiddo”. He made it possible for the Tenno to kill the Orokin emperors (himself included) because he knew he would continue to exist in the void and that the Tenno would finally be able to destroy the sentients.
My speculation about the Duviri Paradox, really relies on the word paradox. I think the Man in the Wall, is our future selves, communicating with our past selves. In the Duviri Paradox, we will get lost in the void, and learn there how to controll it, we try to get out, but instead end up guiding and causing our own story all over again. Another speculation I have made, is that the Zarimen 10-0 never got out of the void, and that we are purhapse still in the void. And we purhapse have controlled everything that happened in the game, and our child like form, is purhapse a manifestation of our older selves. And we have maybe done all this in our dreams, and the man in the wall, is maybe our conscienceness, trying to make us aware about us all doing that in our sleep. And the men in the wall is trying to lead us to ourselves. Thus again a paradox. Those are 2 theories that I have.
Im not 100% sure if this was something steve said about the new faction in the duviri paradox or if it was a theory about them, but i remember hearing that they worship the orokin similar to the Corpus but not focus just on thier technology
I'm super excited... both could be epic and look to totally disprove the whole "these games have no story" opinion some people have... I just don't get that point of view.
Similar sure, but as far as artistic expression destiny pulls more heavily from popular culture, mainly since most of their senior team came from halo. whereas warframe pulls very heavily from the bizzare and arcane culture of lovecraftian art as well as frank halberts dune universe and from jean giraud aka moebius, the original dark sector pitch in 2005 (pre-resident evil meets ww2 version) also used the same inspirations.
First off I'm not that big on warframe lore I don't know a lot so... My opinion: have seen John wick? He's known for killing 3 men in a bar with a pencil and finishing a "impossible task " to get out the assassin game but couldn't do it without Santino help.... So what I'm saying is that what if tenno meant to kill the orokin but couldn't do without the man in the wall that's why in war within you owe me and Wally secretly betrayed the orokin for some personal gain??
Side note to the chains of harrow quest you missed, the reason why we owe him is because he didn't sleep. He is tenno, but he sacrificed himself to the void to protect us from what lies beyond. Or at least from what I remember of that quest, was more than a year ago I did it.
I disagree. Rell is gone. Dead. The man is all the remains. We allow Rell to pass on by releasing the man. And he said "you owe me" at the end of War Within...
I think the finger is a piece of the man in the wall. Which is why the railjack can jump without a rail. I assume each rail has a piece of the man in the wall as well which allows other ships to jump through the void. It's a concept explained in some elderitch novels, I forgot which one but basically the piece allows you to skip through the gods world because it's bound to the rest of the man in the wall in the void.
heres my teory the man in the wall was created by the seven like like the outsider from dishonered was made to understand the void coincidence or inspiration
@@TheDsIEGE Exactly, and according to DEs reveiw of what the community wants i think its story atm is its greatest strength for me personally. The second dream is what kicked off the intrest, gave me friggin chills, and if anything else, the new wars story will keep me coming back. I think if a story can make you have full discussions about it, its doing somthing right.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Story and lore are one of Warframe's biggest strengths, and it's an an aspect that looter games so often neglect because communities always want gameplay and upgrades and REWARDS to lure them. But those things ALWAYS lose luster faster than than an amazingly deep story that can have people talking for years after. People say about Railjack "what's the point," as if there's supposed to be some power carrot to be chasing. They complain that it doesn't connect enough to "the rest of the game." And there's some argument to be made there that most of the items acquired from it don't help other gameplay systems, that's true. However, what it does connect to is the world as a whole. The fact that the sentients are invading, and instead of just hanging around on the ground while an intergalactic threat appears and we can only engage them while standing around on the Plains or standing around on Venus or standing around on any other planet, we built ships to meet them at the doorstep. That's pretty epic, and it's something many other games in this space aren't doing. Destiny is a perfect example. Huge intergalactic threat, what happens...wait until we can fly ships to a place, run around on the ground, throw balls into things, rinse repeat. DE says, "we have an intergalactic threat, and our Tenno are gonna dig up Old War ships to engage that threat head on, while developing that story further." I get that Railjack/Empyrean needs more gameplay-wise to be as epic as it was advertised to us, as much I do really enjoy it, I'll agree 100% with that. But the story and lore aspects here are undeniable, and they're aspects that make the act of farming materials to build a ship far more significant than just "bUt wHaT rEwArDs dO i gEt???!!/1!?" In the grand scheme of things, rewards matter very little. I care far more about fighting in this war, alongside fellow Tenno, helping each other succeed and seeing the story of Natah and the sentients and Duviri and the Zariman and everything else move forward.
I'd like to take an analytical lore-perspective view of just how powerful let's say... an average mr20 tenno actually is. Counting the forma, the kuva, the mods (which i think are pretty much confirmed to be related if not created from cephalons), and railjack, everything. I'd like to be able to say, with certainty, that a tenno is in fact, a god, in a sense.
I like to compare my character to the base level an enemy starts to appear. So, for example, I treat a level 1-5 grineer Lancer as the cannon interpretation of their power. Yielding pretty spectacular results.
Watching this in 2021 after doing the New War Quest now gives so much clarity. The fingers are Thumbs. All of them. During the ending of the New War quest, The man in the all makes his appearance calling requiem names, Vome Xata Oull, Khra lohk (may not be in that order). Notice on the statue that on all 4 hands the thumbs are missing with that same blue mist spewing from the space of the missing fingers.
when u put the reliquary key in the tendrils coming from the finger tube thing wrap into it so ion think it’s a place to put the key they just haven’t added to so that the tendrils would stay
one thing im wondering is, is there a difference between the player and the tenno. in the war whitin end scene, the man in the wall stares into the camera not at the tenno while he talks.
That is because the "view" we players normally have is what our little shits prime actually see. You can actually notice it when Umbra breaks free of the arsenal and grabs the operator in The Sacrifice quest. Basically, very much like EVE online's capsuleers, the operators doesn't see from the eyes of the warframe, but from behind their shoulder. Edit: a few typos
I have something for you to look into if you haven't already. At some point a character (Little Duck I think it was) said that the only ones who knew what or who Vox Solaris is, are Eudico, the Quills, and the Unum. I think that there is some connection between Vox Solaris and the Unum. Maybe they are similar entities or Orokin relics. But it was also implied that they know more about the Tenno and the Man in the Wall then they let on, and are just not telling us. Probably something about "it's not the right time yet." Or something like that. Also there was something about other systems at some point not just the Tau system.
Maybe we're one of the seven: we have one of the seven keys for the reliquary drive, the pod our operator comes out of in the second dream is one of seven in the room and in the war within where we gain control of our tenno powers there are seven of the archways that the guards stand in front of in the queen's throne room. There's a lot of links between the tenno and the seven but what if it goes further than having similar abilities and we actually are one of them but just don't remember.
OOOO LORE IDEA!! If kuva is a byproduct of tenno, and margulus was around the tenno constantly, what if she somehow got some kuva in her system (either on purpose, or maybe it even just manifested inside her body) so when she was killed, her consciousness just kind of stuck around, So when natah came to mimic her, it went inside natah, and that's how natah came to betray the sentients
This why I'm gonna wait. when all plot points finish or conclusive enough for me to play again cause DE forever just to update the story/content side of the game
Okay, if you go to your Railjack and either go to free flight or any mission, equip your Omni, press your aim button, and point the reticle at the Reliquary Drive. You can see the finger with thermal vision!
Of course the seven THE FUCKING SEVEN but what about the man in the wall and the GIANT FUCKING FINGER IN THE RAILJACK Had me in the first half not gonna lie WHY THE FUCK DID YOU CUT OUT THE MAN IN THE WALL SITTING ON THE REQUILARY DRIVE?!? Damnit I'm impatient
@@TheDsIEGE I've been wanting someone to discuss about that giant finger and how the man in the wall waves with his index finger, implying that his kind must be these big giants.
Honestly, the idea that Zariman 10-0 was sent to Void deliberately to create Tenno lines up well with headcanon I had for my... gosh years old now idea for a quest, doubt it might ever make it's way to Warframe considering how dense and stubborn DE became on making things BIG, but in this quest part of the interesting reveals was the origin of Warframes but not as devices (which we got in Sacrifice) but specific designs and story behind the originals, and who were original warriors each Warframe was based on, and it had connection to why Orokin would like to create Tenno
With the number of factions equaling roughly seven depending on how you separate them, we could easily find ourselves obtaining keys from the other factions in the game over time. Vor's key is fairly obvious, Corpus likely have one due to Venus and various Orokin structure related activities. Infested easily have one in a derelict somewhere. There could be related to Duiviri and a void faction if that's the path they choose and various other points. Seeing as we've already obtained one from the strange Orokin place. Just a theory ;)
One thing that me and my friends spoke about was how the Doveri paradox is gonna work. Is the tenno an adult only there ? Or can they shape shift between age ? So you could choose be an adult or kid outside of it or is it going to be separate where the tenno are adults only in that area ?
3:56 deadlock protocol the corpus were peasents and border line slaves to the orokin too 5:18 deadlock protocol 7 for 7 against recast and revoted 7 times, 7 is the number lads
Man this is why I love this game, ppl just focus on the problems with the game, but the Lore is so rich and on-going.. there's still so many questions in the lore.
Well I'm not going off line here but what I've seen from A to B in the story has been thrown into place.(Spoil alert! If you didn't play most of the story.) Found ourselves in Lua mostly from the threat of the stalker join forces with killer robots. Remember the part? Where at the same time the tenno look over themself while stalker followed the same motion like there was a link. (Only bringing that up since we don't see him killed or went away.) Fast forward a bit the giner queen, they sure try digging into the Tenno's mind and fail to control them but doing so only uncover some lost memories that somehow given us more power aside the hand laser. What you choose in what or how you remember things there was a scale for is light or dark. Note the end is very different for all three and yes a third one is fully balanced. Not sure going to play a bigger role but worth a point out. Okay you know this part with Harrow, slowly pulling the safety net blocking us seeing "The man behind the wall" and now after that we see him ever so often just appears as if to let you know he is there and looks very much like you. (After they drop the Umbra stuff and update the login screen is a very hard to notice but the whole screen in the background is a big eye. Move the mouse and you'll see it.) So going skip a few parts and by now you saw the "visors" by touching Lotu's helm but what happened first? He was there just not only scare you but show you. Why even do this? A meaning, he must be not only watching you but for you as well. Keeping the "kiddo" inform what is going on. What really creeped me out was the Railjack part at the end and up to getting the void key. Like the shadows that hunt us in the quest for Harrow attacked the tenno that is never happened in anywhere else! Why here? Better question, what for? The key! What I could only get much later to use to make Railjack work but the last thing was that part. He appeared holding what? The key and disappear with it and now a empty key slot. To help us or just keep the tenno busy, either way the man behind the wall is surely after something. We don't know just yet.
codex entries from older versions of warframe suggests that ancient orokin religions worshiped the void as an entity. that old religion was replaced by the vain faith that ballas made mention of in the sacrifice. Ballas says that their old religion was a form of dualism that all things were of two parts this world and void . ancient orokin ancestors like the seven always knew about the man in the wall. The requiem poem on the parazson mods also allude to him and his nature his need to cause chaos his preference to staying anonymous. the man in the wall has always been here since warframe was in closed beta.
I think the Man In The Wall had a HUGE part in the destruction on The Seven and the empire. If you have seen the cinematic from the Erra quest, the Tenno around The Lotus had eyes of red and black much like the manifestations of the MITW has. I'm thinking the Orokin tried to either back out of a deal or tried to double cross the MITW and he used the Tenno to destroy them. Its possible that the Tenno may not remember because they might not have been in control.
I've always believed that inside the reliquary is our own body (the "adult" or physical body) of the teno and and that the whole giant finger thing is just like a misleading idea for us to get distracted looking for giant beings. the same way with the ne railjack quest what was inside of the reliquary was the physical form of sevagoth.
My only issue with this is the finger, in cutscenes there's many different railjacks, and as we know in videogames cutscenes are cannon, do each have a different piece? I also feel it's contrived but also feel the high seven are still alive, it's in older lore entries that at least a few survived the massacre and are sleeping in the void somewhere.
So, this'll likely never see the light of day, but I feel as if the masked person that is seen in the weird voidscape with the orokin wurm, might be related to Harrow or the flight. I don't know why, but I feel as if they know something we don't, in a way. Also, here's a scary thought- the man in the wall, an Oro so to speak, had to become that way. He's clearly perfected editing the form he exists in. What if that finger is a part of his original form? What, if, he was from Alpha Centuri? And the sentients purged his kind, and after, were enlightened by the ruins?
So if the orokin were offered immortality an went into a existence between the void or a deeper part within the void itself During the quest ending it refers to Hey kiddo it's been awhile We assume that it's actually the man in the wall but what if it's actually the 7 as well each time you're shadow tenno what I refer to them as show up are actually the 7 checking in on the tenno an seeing the progress we have reached but I do believe that the selections we get between certain quest of light or dark what if we will choose to side with lotus or disagree with her an go against her an the sentients
Still reminds me of Evangelion. Tenno (kids born during 2nd Impact) only ones able to pilot Warframes (Evangelions, bioweapons made from their mothers being absorbed). The Seven (SEELE), Ballas (Gendo), and the Sentients (Angels, even Era looks exactly like the 3rd Angel, Sachiel). Although after 2nd Impact humans were no longer able to reproduce, this also effected Angels the same (like Sentients). Natah even speaks with Era about a Golden Spear (Lance of Longinus) or something like that. There are tons of similarities from that show but these are just the few that stick off top of my head.
Just an idea, what if the 7 were tricked by the void, the man in the wall, and they are trying to escape and that’s why we hear the tapping in the glass
I'm actually more interested in finding out if Natah, in her manipulated grief at the near-death of Ballas.... Is conjuring a mimic of Erra as a means to push herself to carry out a war already long over. Especially since it's Natah who seems to have sole control in waking the army, through song. What if "Mother" did make the journey through the void, many years ago, only to die once reaching the other side. and though she was made sterile... Those ships, The Murex.... Children of her womb, protected by it, survived. Able to reproduce. But needing to be woken, born... By a hate and vengeance only a sentient could have.
Is no one going to talk about the mask that the adult wears in the duviri paradox trailer and how it’s the exact same as the shadowed person behind the text at the end?? Or how the skies inside the Paradox are human skulls ??
if im made of kuva why does it take so long to farm
Good question!
Now that's the right questions!!!
So what you're saying is I should cut myself every now again for some magical red space juice?
MA'AM !!?
@@mlemmage8449 not eating his medicine again!!!!
MA'AM!!!???
ma'am?
there's not enough orange juice and cookies to go around, unfortunately.
Great theory. Give it 1-6 years and it could be true.
Sounds about right
Pain.
Sad
Hey, guy from the future here. Duviri might be the next update
From the info you've given me I'm guessing the Orikin made a deal with the Man in the wall, and the children were his asking price.
I mean... It sure does seem that way at least, doesn't it?
@@TheDsIEGE Yet on the other hand with the coming of the Duvari paradox, has anyone considered that the Man in the Wall is our selves? Perhaps our adult split selves left in the void? What would happen if the child and the adult unite?
To me the Orokin are independent of the Tenno. The Orokin were only too happy to exterminate the Tenno upon being found until Margulas plead for Tenno lives. We are seen as void demons, even as mentioned by Balas. We shall have to hurry up and wait to find out.
*sad harrow noises*
@@CuChulainnwd If Tenno were the asked price of Man In the Wall, the Orokin would be very happy to exterminate them. Probably they were very afraid of Man and didn't want any of his influence in the system, so they wanted to kill Tenno.
But Tenno proved to just way too useful.
Hmmm did Man in the Wall plan all that? Make a deal with 7 emperors of Orokin (say give them immortality), for a small price, 1 ship full of people. Change children for possible vessels for him to influence the outside world, but make them too valuable, for Orokin to just erase.
Now suddenly Man in the Wall sounds exactly like some demon/devil wanting to pact and influence people and get out of hell (void).
@@magearamil8626 You forget that the Emperoros wanted nothing to do with the Tenno. It was Margulas that save them, then Balas that saw the use of the Tenno as weapons of war to fight against the Sentients.
No deals were to be struck or made, This was purely Balas' operation. Balas it "appears' was just as content to get rid of his competition.
“Seven chains, seven seals, seven children born from seven wives”
is that an scp reference?
Mrmelada Guilty as charge 🙌
Seven deadly sins (not the anime the. From the bible)
@@ricardomedina6353false, while this fiction might have drawned somr inspiration from the bible, this is based on the SCP fiction, which is a collaborative-writing site, with a horror and cosmic-horror setting.
This one specifically refers to scp-231.
"Seven seals, Seven rings, Seven brides to The Scarlet King".
Ricardo Medina Yup thats where the scarlet king is inspired from
we already knew the Zariman incident was not an accident. We have known for years that the ship was rigged to lose power outside the void so that it would drift in. We also know that the Zariman was a warship and civilians were not allowed on these ships even for evacuation purposes, which stumped the people who rediscovered the ship once it drifted out of the void again. It has been in the lore for years and should still be there in game unless it was removed via updates. Some of it was sprinkled in the descriptions and stories of the different prime frames, other parts within the personal targets for the Sanctuary with Cephalon Simaris, and other parts sprinkled elsewhere, in numerous places.
The zariman was a military ship no? Before the void incident, the children were training in the discipline of a soldier. So I'm guessing all the families were military.
@@JojoTheVulture Actually the children were not trained for military until after the void incident. And nothing in the lore says what their families did before.
Edit: Look at some of the old prime warframe descriptions for some of the lore I am talking about. These descriptions I don't believe are in the game anymore but should still be online somewhere. The descriptions told a story about that warframe though and gave lots of info into the old war.
@@samuelplyler1511 oh, I thought when the operator talks about their training that they were talking about a time when they were still with their family
@@JojoTheVulture It is a really complex lore. Even I miss parts of it often.
That's a middle finger. Straight from The Void.
To remind us that as long as you waste your time and call that `fun`, nothing really matters.
or maybe DE passively told us indirectly what happens when they don't DElay by giving us the finger.
if you want to know the finger is then yu should look at tennos hand and then it is your answer to that it can be the ma in the wall but it can be one of the seven oreken
@@rasmusjansson9448 the man in the wall is the personification of the void, a form it takes to speak to us, and since that is a void power reactor, instead of seeing energy, as everyone else most likely do, we see a part of the personification of the void, in this case being the man in the wall's finger.
Don't forget the Ember codex lore that questions about the reasons of why the Orokin put children on a military ship.
RENASE LEGATUS but didn’t the ember codex lore say that there shouldn’t be any children in the ship
@@sangtrinh6252 Exactly. It specifically says there shouldn't be children at all in the ship. Not only that, but the crew was gone.
Crew was gone... or were they changed? Consider the possibility that the tenno are the souls of the character we see in the duviri paradox. It would explain why a crew were originally on the ship with no children, and suddenly the ship had children and no ship. Makes me even question the zariman that made the trip back. I mean, there's one in the void still. Could the zariman that actually made the trip back to the orokin be a fake?
@@TheDsIEGE i mean in the war within it is pretty clear that there are adults and children on the ship at the same time, it might also mention that it was a colony ship which would make the entry kinda none canon anymore. Also the Ember entry doesnt say that there were no children on the ship before it got lost, it only stated that there shouldnt be any, which is why people have always theoriezed that the orokin did the whole zariman thing on purpose
@@TheDsIEGE Considering the time rifts on Lua, that are supposedly the byproduct of pulling the moon out of the void so suddenly, and the fact that the guy in the Durivi Paradox trailer seems to see his younger self hiding that Tigris in the hole in the ground (that did not look like a memory to me), I think it is possible that time in the Void works completely differently than in our space. Moreover, the word "paradox" is most commonly used in fiction in relation to time mechanics plots (time travel to be more specific). I think it is possible that whatever is going to happen in the Durivi Paradox may lead us to visiting or witnessing the Zariman Ten Zero in a state before its return to the Orokin space.
What you missed: Digital Extremes gives long-time players.... THE FINGER!
If it's a joke or not, it's still weird and I love it.
Star Finger?
you mean *clears throat* STAA FINGAA
A question might be, are we players for the man in the wall, or are just some of the pawns on the board?
That... is the right question to ask.
@@TheDsIEGE See, something tells me WE are the man in the wall. Our adult selves trapped in the void communicating with our child selves. This is leading up to the Duvari Paradox.
@@CuChulainnwd Duviri or was it Duumviri means "Two Men."??? Hmmm....
The most interesting stories or of Pawns suddenly made into Players.
But yeah it sounds very likely that minds of Tenno were split into two. One with memories pf Zariman was left inside Void, and that we call Man in the Wall.
@@TheDsIEGE Whoa, an IRobot reference?
Bro this hole thing is driving me insane damm
YOU AND ME BOTH! ANSWERS! I NEED ANSWERS!
@@TheDsIEGE let me make it worse. One awaken from the 7 capsule camber, but 6 of us destroy Erra?
What if the death of the 7 was actually them breaking their alliances and each going their own way. 1 got inside one of the Sisters to rule the grineer and use her as an excuse so that the little Sister always revive her. 1 took control of the corpus. 1 took control of Erra since we saw in the latest quest that Erra should be dead. 1 could have been consumed by the infested and strenghten their bonds. 1 could control the orokin turrets. 1 could be in the void (duviri paradox). The last one could be the unum.
One is Baro Ki'Teer...
@@Megalomaniakaal don't think so. He's back story shows that he met inaros as a Child. Someone could make an arguement about his age but then you must remember that darvo is 180+years old and he is considered to be a teenager.
@@gkarak1996 Yeah, I wasn't really serious, his backstory is pretty clear.
why only the Orokin turrets, not the troops in the towers
I certainly wouldn't deny the possibility that the void being gave the Orokin immortality and the potentially limitless power of the void, one which bypasses all science and logic. These are both something that the Orokin have clearly pursued at any cost in their quest to become gods. Also, since the lotus was imprisoned and controlled by the Orokin it's proof that whatever she was telling you to do was direct command of the Orokin and represented their current agenda, which seems to be wiping out all of their past mistakes and perhaps trying again once the storm has calmed?
Two points of note. First, the most relevant, that partly works against the theory, but at the same time, works very much in favour. The Duviri have been mentioned before, by Solaris. Random chatter occasionally mentions them, you can find quotes on the Wiki. And from what we've heard, they're just people. Absurdly rich people, but a being of the void, of pure soul, most likely doesn't have a wife, a body, and probably doesn't need a spaceship to travel across the system, let alone paying for deliveries. But at the same time, since we know the Duviri are connected with the void, this does mean that the idea of Orokin survivors or Orokin pretenders/successors traipsing around in the background and messing with living in the void is more or less completely confirmed as canon.
Secondly, regarding the Lotus. It's becoming more and more likely to me that she's being manipulated. I remember posting a comment on a previous video a while back posing some of my initial concerns, but even beyond some very strange logic like 'Why would the Orokin dissuade her from Killing the Tenno but not deposing the Orokin', there's also some symbolism. For one, Warframe loves its dualism, and one way this can be seen is in the Lotus's name. In eastern religions which the Tenno are often associated with, the Lotus flower is a symbol of enlightenment - of gaining knowledge, coming to terms with one's true self. But in western, classical mythology, which the Toga-wearing Orokin seem to lean towards, the Lotus fruit is a corrupting symbol of mind control, that manipulates and wipes away memories, leaving the eater malleable and a husk of their former self. Following that, there's Erra. Erra is a direct mythological reference, to the Akkadian god of Mayhem and Pestilence, who's major role in that mythology was to arise from a deep slumber (woken, it should be noted, by an advisor and seven sons) to manipulate the rulers of Babylon and lead an army of living weapons to destroy humanity. It matches what Lotus has done, yes, but if she's currently under mind control, it would also match Erra pretty closely.
Even Lotus's behaviour seems to match. In the Erra quest, she's not behaving like her old self, or even how she is in the Ropalolyst fight. In the Sacrifice, she seems normal, save her makeover, her shaky voice and her new allegiance. In the Ropalolyst fight, however, there's something off about her dialogue. She's been a fairly straight-laced character before now for several years, but she opens her soliloquy with a metaphor. "Our history is smoke", and her entire speech is full of such flowery speech which is a bit out of character, but is very much so from what little of Erra we've seen. And then, in the Erra quest, there's this moment which actually crops up in the video: 9:18 Ballas is reporting on the state of the system, mentions the Tenno, and as soon as he does so, Lotus immediately launches into a non-sequitur about how they are 'the enemy'. Nobody seems particularly phased by the interruption either, as if this isn't the first time she's reacted like this to the mention of the Tenno by name. Almost as if it was a programmed response. And given that she's definitely got some connection to the void, perhaps even immunity to it, the motivation for an underhanded tactic like that certainly exists.
I just thought if something, the key vor has plus the key those new guys have(on DE's Twitter) plus ours, what if the keys are scattered throughout the system.
I was wondering if anyone was gonna mention that...
i mean those are standard void keys in design at least, which there are 1000th out there
The name is peculiar though, Janus the Roman god of beginnings, time, duality, passages, and endings. Maybe one of the 7 was named Janus?
I thought it was Hotei?
@@RoegadynEnjoyer Thats what I was thinking. They Janus key gave Vore the power to live within the Void, a door to an alternate realm. I think each of these keys will have a different ability to give to our drive, and maybe the Janus key will allow it to enter the Void.
You are a credit to this game and the community.
Much respect.
I'd always had the thought that either the tenno were/possessed shards of the man in the wall's mind, (like how rell's consciousness split in the harrow quest), or that he was to the tenno what tenno are to the warframes, wanting to wear them as a physical body. He viewed rell as he viewed himself, saying something like "I'll not let you take me away from me" or something like that in the harrow mission. That always stood out to me
Wow, glad I found your channel. You've got some interesting takes, and a GREAT voice :)
I read an interesting theory that said that when the zariman ship passed through the void, it sent the tenno forward in time. This is why the operators we play as don't remember the old war. Then, the tenno that fought the orokin are the adult operators we see in the duviri trailer. This would make the old war a future event in the lives of the operator we play as, despite it being a past event. Ultimately, we will later be sent back in time to fight the orokin. This would probably be revealed at the end of the new war quests. To me this answers the questions of why the operators dont remember the old war but kinda remember being on the zariman ship and how the tenno managed the defeat the orokin when they should've been literal children.
If you know of any contradictory lore lmk before I get excited over this theory
Would also explain how we've barely developed our powers, but have been described as literal gods on the battlefield. I think you're onto something here. Plus the fact that it IS kinda paradoxical. We exist now, thousands of years later, unaged and asleep even though we were once god like beings on the battlefield. Seems nuts
OKAY, had a tinfoil hat moment, anyone else just notice how the queens are missing a single finger on each hand... dun dun dunnnnnnnnn and what if... since the orokin are basically space wizard gods who have the ability to teleport planets -- what if they also have the power to shrink planets, or an entire galaxy, what if sentients are like the size of ants and that seemingly giant finger is actually -- yeah.. just a normal sized finger in a miniature space ship-- "what if they shrunk our galaxy?" is basically what i keep thinking, especially after seeing that huge finger, mostly started thinking that after noticing the archwing quests turn you tiny. anyways just another wild one for the maybes
ALSO, almost forgot, the index finger of every single OP suit is cutout and has a different pattern, what if its just our finger, pre shrink.
the index finger is probably different bc its also the trigger finger and even if we dont use guns the design is pretty classic in sci-fi. also i doubt that the orokin had the ability to shrik entire galaxies or even just our solar system considering that getting to the closest star to them was pretty difficult
Left mouse click???
I don't think they could shrink a galaxy, but throwing it into limbo (void) like Lua is possible. The orokin may have experimented around it alot and created unstable void portals as we have experience in Lua Spy missions
That is incorrect, about the operator suits index fingers.
Most of them are not cut out.
FINALLY! I thought I was the only one who saw something fishy about the seven orokin lord deaths. They always seemed too powerful to just... die
The ports around the finger theory is really cool, I'd love to have multiple quests to take us to different places to acquire different keys. That'd be epic.
There is another line in Ember prime's description that kinda confirms this whole thing.
"Why would you do that? Why did you put children on a military ship?"
I thought the Zariman was a colonization ship soooo i'm kinda leaning towards it was indeed a cover up story for something else.
But ... Why the hell Wally wants this deal? Pre-accident he supposed to be free in some way before Rell stoped him unless he was restricted to not enter the material plane in which case he can use the children as vessels. If none of this is true than really ... why? Whats the point of him making a deal with the Orokin?
Well... Are you certain that everything got back from wherever Zariman went?
Bread crumbs and more bread crumbs... It's starting to come together! damn this is fun!
I think its so he can manifest. My biggest piece of evidence for this is we have no lore over Wally before Rell (and Ill have to replay that mission for its lore significance anyways), and that the version of Vore thats cut in 2 never leaves the void. I think that Wally is stuck in the Void, and that he needs his power to be outside the void for him to manifest. As a trade to the emperors, they would get immortality and Wally would get a ship full of people sent into the Void for him to "corrupt". The adults went man from it, but the kids gained power. Thats why we never see him before the War Within. The Tenno are left inside the Void, thus his power doesn't ever escape. Once we're on the Orbiter, he finally starts manifesting and showing up to us. I think the finger might either be part of his physical form from inside the Void, or just a wild goose chase to throw us off. Either way, I feel like during the New War, we're going to let off a massive Bomb comprised of Void Energy to kill the sentients, and I think thats surge in void energy will be what allows "Wally" to finally manifest into a permanent physical form. And once that happens, I do not think he will be on our side. He's on HIS side.
Justice Brown and of course he won't be able to achieve full power because we have his precious trigger finger.
very well thought out my man. these are the discussions and things I crave
Thank you! I appreciate that!
@@TheDsIEGE dude, I appreciate you, and just someone putting out intelligent warframe content with actual knowledge of the story, I like being able to treat these things almost as actual happenings, as opposed to an escape from reality
@@drifter61 That's why I do it. Something to entertain, maybe make you think a little, but first and foremost, take your mind off whatever stresses you might have, if for only 10 or so minutes. If I did that, I achieved my goal.
@@drifter61 if you don't mind, try joining the discord... Just for the fun of it!
9:35 "Tenno are made!?! not an accident???" brrooooo wtffff hahahah imagine telling this to a child hahahah
what?! I just realised the 7 pods and keys... that's why I found fun watching these videos
What if the man in the wall is the 7? A being composed of both the void and their minds allowing them true immortality across all of space and time as part of the void?
Totally possible, and would tie everything together quite nicely...
@Colgate is great Maybe the Man in the wall is ourselves, our adult split selves trapped in the void, see Duvari Paradox. What happens should adult and child unite?
@Colgate is great Dude, we have no clue exactly what the man in the wall is. It does not discount my possible theory.
@Colgate is great has no form or shape? Have you not been paying attention? Every time we see the man in the wall it looks like a reflection of (wait for it) ...... US.
Who says the man in the wall has to be a separate entity? We do not know how the void works yet either. Your understanding and conjecture is just as valid as mine at this point.
@Colgate is great Natah's accounts are not quite to be trusted though are they? Why do we have to fight this war when the Orokin are dead? (Pretty much) This whole new war is pointless. The big reason we keep hearing the Sentients are coming is to smash the Orokin.
The Tenno did that. Seems to me Natah likes to with hold information or seed disinformation. Not the first time she has done that either is it?
Either way, we could both be wrong. The speculation in this story is entertaining. We shall all just have to hurry up and wait.
the seven tricked the tenno on killng them.
Exactly!
If thats true I wonder if we will get another arc in stalkers story. Perhaps a flashback of sorts.
I really like that Warframe has a reasonable and lore friendly reason for not dieing and being able to respawn instead of it just "cuz it's a game."
You've got a pretty interesting theory. But some things are still bugging me. Yes it's true that the Orokin 'created' the Tenno, but the Tenno in general are referred to the Warframe not the Operator as their existence is unknown to many except a few. Also, the Kuva Lich. Aren't they immortal as well? They can't be killed unless it is with a Parazon and the correct Requiem Mods. Isn't it possible that the Tenno used the Parazon or something similar to exterminate the Seven? And Rell, he had Oro but he died as well. Plus, if the Zariman was a sacrifice, why were the Tenno treated the way they were by the Orokin?
I doubt the whole idea of them being a sacrifice, but the parazon being used to execute the seven is a pretty solid idea. That said, in my opinion, Rell died because he had no body for his oro to return to. We were kept in cryo pods, but his body died long ago. By destroying Harrow, his oro pretty much left it's only possible host.
Oro doesn't make you completely immortal, there are a few ways for someone possessing Oro to die. Mirage, for example, had her Oro absorbed by a mother sentient, and effectively died. I like your parazon idea, though I'm not sure if it would work on someone who possesses Oro, assuming the 7 did. The tenno have other ways of killing someone with Oro, as the only ones who can kill an individual who possesses Oro is another individual who does.
@@sophocles2083 That's why i said the Parazon or something similar.
Kuva immortality is different from Oro immortality, Beings that have oro can only be killed by other beings with oro, kuva is a kinda lesser form of immortality, the parazon is mainly a just a tool to deliver whatever the requiem mods are, its probably some stuff that messes with the kuva and stops the lich from being able to come back, steve use the word frequency speciffically when he first talked about them, this reminded me on how specific frequencies bring down entire buildings if they vibrate in the correct frequency. Anyways i doubt that this was necessary to kill the Seven as we also didnt need something like that to kill Rell. I also remember something about beings with oro killing other beings with oro because they kinda consume it before the sole can escape and occupy a new body
@@faber7507 The concept is similar though
Getting lots of elder Scrolls dwarven feels rn
Hmmm, there is also another possibility I’ve never heard anyone consider...... what if “the man in the wall” is actually one of the seven who betrayed the other 6 because he saw what was going to happen, that his race was doomed to fail. Or that the universe was doomed to fall because of their arrogance in creating the sentients.
It would explain why he keeps saying “you owe me kiddo”. He made it possible for the Tenno to kill the Orokin emperors (himself included) because he knew he would continue to exist in the void and that the Tenno would finally be able to destroy the sentients.
My speculation about the Duviri Paradox, really relies on the word paradox. I think the Man in the Wall, is our future selves, communicating with our past selves. In the Duviri Paradox, we will get lost in the void, and learn there how to controll it, we try to get out, but instead end up guiding and causing our own story all over again.
Another speculation I have made, is that the Zarimen 10-0 never got out of the void, and that we are purhapse still in the void. And we purhapse have controlled everything that happened in the game, and our child like form, is purhapse a manifestation of our older selves. And we have maybe done all this in our dreams, and the man in the wall, is maybe our conscienceness, trying to make us aware about us all doing that in our sleep. And the men in the wall is trying to lead us to ourselves. Thus again a paradox.
Those are 2 theories that I have.
Maybe the finger is just the key flipping you off
I thought that "finger" was a mummy as i never noticed the nail!
what about vor with his key and how he "cant die" where you fight him in the void locations
Im not 100% sure if this was something steve said about the new faction in the duviri paradox or if it was a theory about them, but i remember hearing that they worship the orokin similar to the Corpus but not focus just on thier technology
Destiny: the 9
Warframe: the 7
Tons of similarities in the stories of both games... Sometimes I wonder if they don't have someone working at both studios...
@@TheDsIEGE honestly wonder where both games are gonna go now that both have their climax coming up with New War and Savathun/The Darkness
I'm super excited... both could be epic and look to totally disprove the whole "these games have no story" opinion some people have... I just don't get that point of view.
Similar sure, but as far as artistic expression destiny pulls more heavily from popular culture, mainly since most of their senior team came from halo. whereas warframe pulls very heavily from the bizzare and arcane culture of lovecraftian art as well as frank halberts dune universe and from jean giraud aka moebius, the original dark sector pitch in 2005 (pre-resident evil meets ww2 version) also used the same inspirations.
The man in the wall is xur! Lmfao
Before i watch this i just want to say that my first reaction to hearing "The Seven" made me think about the council of wukong mains. Lol.
That's a far more accurate comparison than you might think...
First off I'm not that big on warframe lore I don't know a lot so... My opinion: have seen John wick? He's known for killing 3 men in a bar with a pencil and finishing a "impossible task " to get out the assassin game but couldn't do it without Santino help.... So what I'm saying is that what if tenno meant to kill the orokin but couldn't do without the man in the wall that's why in war within you owe me and Wally secretly betrayed the orokin for some personal gain??
Side note to the chains of harrow quest you missed, the reason why we owe him is because he didn't sleep. He is tenno, but he sacrificed himself to the void to protect us from what lies beyond. Or at least from what I remember of that quest, was more than a year ago I did it.
I think that's right. I remember he Bound himself and the man in the wall to his warframe.
I disagree. Rell is gone. Dead. The man is all the remains. We allow Rell to pass on by releasing the man. And he said "you owe me" at the end of War Within...
I think the finger is a piece of the man in the wall. Which is why the railjack can jump without a rail. I assume each rail has a piece of the man in the wall as well which allows other ships to jump through the void. It's a concept explained in some elderitch novels, I forgot which one but basically the piece allows you to skip through the gods world because it's bound to the rest of the man in the wall in the void.
heres my teory the man in the wall was created by the seven like like the outsider from dishonered was made to understand the void coincidence or inspiration
They also imply that there are other inhabited solar systems, so what if there are orokin in other systems?
Honestly i think we might see them in the Duveri Paradox. So~
I can't wait, personally...
Warframes story is one big riddle
And lowkey its the only thing i can still 100% not be cynical about
It's actually really good, one of the things I always come back to, regardless how things are gamewise.
@@TheDsIEGE Exactly, and according to DEs reveiw of what the community wants i think its story atm is its greatest strength for me personally.
The second dream is what kicked off the intrest, gave me friggin chills, and if anything else, the new wars story will keep me coming back.
I think if a story can make you have full discussions about it, its doing somthing right.
@@slipipipi7971 bro... Do you remember in the second dreams, our tenno awaken from one of how many capsule camber was it?
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Story and lore are one of Warframe's biggest strengths, and it's an an aspect that looter games so often neglect because communities always want gameplay and upgrades and REWARDS to lure them. But those things ALWAYS lose luster faster than than an amazingly deep story that can have people talking for years after.
People say about Railjack "what's the point," as if there's supposed to be some power carrot to be chasing. They complain that it doesn't connect enough to "the rest of the game." And there's some argument to be made there that most of the items acquired from it don't help other gameplay systems, that's true. However, what it does connect to is the world as a whole. The fact that the sentients are invading, and instead of just hanging around on the ground while an intergalactic threat appears and we can only engage them while standing around on the Plains or standing around on Venus or standing around on any other planet, we built ships to meet them at the doorstep. That's pretty epic, and it's something many other games in this space aren't doing. Destiny is a perfect example. Huge intergalactic threat, what happens...wait until we can fly ships to a place, run around on the ground, throw balls into things, rinse repeat. DE says, "we have an intergalactic threat, and our Tenno are gonna dig up Old War ships to engage that threat head on, while developing that story further."
I get that Railjack/Empyrean needs more gameplay-wise to be as epic as it was advertised to us, as much I do really enjoy it, I'll agree 100% with that. But the story and lore aspects here are undeniable, and they're aspects that make the act of farming materials to build a ship far more significant than just "bUt wHaT rEwArDs dO i gEt???!!/1!?" In the grand scheme of things, rewards matter very little.
I care far more about fighting in this war, alongside fellow Tenno, helping each other succeed and seeing the story of Natah and the sentients and Duviri and the Zariman and everything else move forward.
I'd like to take an analytical lore-perspective view of just how powerful let's say... an average mr20 tenno actually is. Counting the forma, the kuva, the mods (which i think are pretty much confirmed to be related if not created from cephalons), and railjack, everything. I'd like to be able to say, with certainty, that a tenno is in fact, a god, in a sense.
I like to compare my character to the base level an enemy starts to appear. So, for example, I treat a level 1-5 grineer Lancer as the cannon interpretation of their power. Yielding pretty spectacular results.
Yeah... Since only 6 tenno help the lotus kill Erra...
Watching this in 2021 after doing the New War Quest now gives so much clarity. The fingers are Thumbs. All of them. During the ending of the New War quest, The man in the all makes his appearance calling requiem names, Vome Xata Oull, Khra lohk (may not be in that order). Notice on the statue that on all 4 hands the thumbs are missing with that same blue mist spewing from the space of the missing fingers.
when u put the reliquary key in the tendrils coming from the finger tube thing wrap into it so ion think it’s a place to put the key they just haven’t added to so that the tendrils would stay
one thing im wondering is, is there a difference between the player and the tenno. in the war whitin end scene, the man in the wall stares into the camera not at the tenno while he talks.
6:23 say what?
That is because the "view" we players normally have is what our little shits prime actually see. You can actually notice it when Umbra breaks free of the arsenal and grabs the operator in The Sacrifice quest. Basically, very much like EVE online's capsuleers, the operators doesn't see from the eyes of the warframe, but from behind their shoulder.
Edit: a few typos
@@92edoy You are correct, Nidus's Phryke skin has eyes on its shoulders.
I remember just clicking new war just to watch the cool cutscenes and saw three options like what
I have something for you to look into if you haven't already.
At some point a character (Little Duck I think it was) said that the only ones who knew what or who Vox Solaris is, are Eudico, the Quills, and the Unum. I think that there is some connection between Vox Solaris and the Unum. Maybe they are similar entities or Orokin relics. But it was also implied that they know more about the Tenno and the Man in the Wall then they let on, and are just not telling us. Probably something about "it's not the right time yet." Or something like that. Also there was something about other systems at some point not just the Tau system.
Isn't the guy in the Duviri paradox the adult version of one of the staff at DE?
Man I love your cosmetic on Limbo Prime, looks sooo much like the Silver Shroud from Fallout 4!
This makes me question what rlly controls the neural century in void extermination missions
Seems like everything in the orokin society leads back to one source, huh?
Maybe we're one of the seven: we have one of the seven keys for the reliquary drive, the pod our operator comes out of in the second dream is one of seven in the room and in the war within where we gain control of our tenno powers there are seven of the archways that the guards stand in front of in the queen's throne room. There's a lot of links between the tenno and the seven but what if it goes further than having similar abilities and we actually are one of them but just don't remember.
In regards to keys, Vor Indicates that there is more, with his Janus Key, any possible connection?
9:47 "this finger"
WTF, I THOUGHT THAT WAS A BODY OR SOMETHING! omg, when I saw that it was a finger I fucking died dude hahahahahaha
OOOO LORE IDEA!! If kuva is a byproduct of tenno, and margulus was around the tenno constantly, what if she somehow got some kuva in her system (either on purpose, or maybe it even just manifested inside her body) so when she was killed, her consciousness just kind of stuck around, So when natah came to mimic her, it went inside natah, and that's how natah came to betray the sentients
“Made by you to kill us” ol mates been brain washed or controlled afterwards, by his own devices to serve those he tried to kill, teehee
Dude gr8 vid!! Awesome job man!
Why does the place in the video at 9:10 look like our room in the ship for our teno?
Awesome bro! please keep these coming.
I wonder if the finger is connected to the meat in the Plains of Eidolon tower.
Only one way to find out. Let's bring it to Konzu and have him cut it open for us.
@@sinfulmourning2780 bold to assume it's not just free lunch
@@junipermcclary1645 That depends entirely on what we find in the fing- ok, let's be honest, he'll find a way to make lunch out of it.
This why I'm gonna wait. when all plot points finish or conclusive enough for me to play again cause DE forever just to update the story/content side of the game
Okay, if you go to your Railjack and either go to free flight or any mission, equip your Omni, press your aim button, and point the reticle at the Reliquary Drive. You can see the finger with thermal vision!
Of course the seven THE FUCKING SEVEN but what about the man in the wall and the GIANT FUCKING FINGER IN THE RAILJACK
Had me in the first half not gonna lie
WHY THE FUCK DID YOU CUT OUT THE MAN IN THE WALL SITTING ON THE REQUILARY DRIVE?!?
Damnit I'm impatient
I feel you're pain, I really do. Hopefully soon, we'll know all...
@@TheDsIEGE I've been wanting someone to discuss about that giant finger and how the man in the wall waves with his index finger, implying that his kind must be these big giants.
Either I don't remember the mission where you obtain the key or I have never done it, even if I already have all RJ missions cleared.
Brah, your Limbo is looking fine as hell. I've got mine dressed up in black, gold, and purples.
Honestly, the idea that Zariman 10-0 was sent to Void deliberately to create Tenno lines up well with headcanon I had for my... gosh years old now idea for a quest, doubt it might ever make it's way to Warframe considering how dense and stubborn DE became on making things BIG, but in this quest part of the interesting reveals was the origin of Warframes but not as devices (which we got in Sacrifice) but specific designs and story behind the originals, and who were original warriors each Warframe was based on, and it had connection to why Orokin would like to create Tenno
With the number of factions equaling roughly seven depending on how you separate them, we could easily find ourselves obtaining keys from the other factions in the game over time. Vor's key is fairly obvious, Corpus likely have one due to Venus and various Orokin structure related activities. Infested easily have one in a derelict somewhere. There could be related to Duiviri and a void faction if that's the path they choose and various other points. Seeing as we've already obtained one from the strange Orokin place. Just a theory ;)
I swear this man puts more thought into his videos than DE does with their game
What finger are you talking about here? I don't see anything move in the pod in that scene but it sounds like literally everyone else but me has lmao
Great video, buddy! Instant subscribe.
One thing that me and my friends spoke about was how the Doveri paradox is gonna work. Is the tenno an adult only there ? Or can they shape shift between age ? So you could choose be an adult or kid outside of it or is it going to be separate where the tenno are adults only in that area ?
3:56 deadlock protocol the corpus were peasents and border line slaves to the orokin too
5:18 deadlock protocol 7 for 7 against recast and revoted 7 times, 7 is the number lads
I do think it's the path to the Duviri Paradox you discussed here.
Man this is why I love this game, ppl just focus on the problems with the game, but the Lore is so rich and on-going.. there's still so many questions in the lore.
Well I'm not going off line here but what I've seen from A to B in the story has been thrown into place.(Spoil alert! If you didn't play most of the story.)
Found ourselves in Lua mostly from the threat of the stalker join forces with killer robots. Remember the part? Where at the same time the tenno look over themself while stalker followed the same motion like there was a link. (Only bringing that up since we don't see him killed or went away.)
Fast forward a bit the giner queen, they sure try digging into the Tenno's mind and fail to control them but doing so only uncover some lost memories that somehow given us more power aside the hand laser. What you choose in what or how you remember things there was a scale for is light or dark. Note the end is very different for all three and yes a third one is fully balanced.
Not sure going to play a bigger role but worth a point out.
Okay you know this part with Harrow, slowly pulling the safety net blocking us seeing "The man behind the wall" and now after that we see him ever so often just appears as if to let you know he is there and looks very much like you. (After they drop the Umbra stuff and update the login screen is a very hard to notice but the whole screen in the background is a big eye. Move the mouse and you'll see it.)
So going skip a few parts and by now you saw the "visors" by touching Lotu's helm but what happened first? He was there just not only scare you but show you. Why even do this? A meaning, he must be not only watching you but for you as well. Keeping the "kiddo" inform what is going on. What really creeped me out was the Railjack part at the end and up to getting the void key. Like the shadows that hunt us in the quest for Harrow attacked the tenno that is never happened in anywhere else! Why here? Better question, what for? The key! What I could only get much later to use to make Railjack work but the last thing was that part. He appeared holding what? The key and disappear with it and now a empty key slot. To help us or just keep the tenno busy, either way the man behind the wall is surely after something. We don't know just yet.
The node where you fight Vay Hek on earth is ALSO called Oro.
Rewatching this after finishing the New War earlier today.
codex entries from older versions of warframe suggests that ancient orokin religions worshiped the void as an entity. that old religion was replaced by the vain faith that ballas made mention of in the sacrifice. Ballas says that their old religion was a form of dualism that all things were of two parts this world and void . ancient orokin ancestors like the seven always knew about the man in the wall. The requiem poem on the parazson mods also allude to him and his nature his need to cause chaos his preference to staying anonymous. the man in the wall has always been here since warframe was in closed beta.
I think the Man In The Wall had a HUGE part in the destruction on The Seven and the empire. If you have seen the cinematic from the Erra quest, the Tenno around The Lotus had eyes of red and black much like the manifestations of the MITW has. I'm thinking the Orokin tried to either back out of a deal or tried to double cross the MITW and he used the Tenno to destroy them. Its possible that the Tenno may not remember because they might not have been in control.
I've always believed that inside the reliquary is our own body (the "adult" or physical body) of the teno and and that the whole giant finger thing is just like a misleading idea for us to get distracted looking for giant beings. the same way with the ne railjack quest what was inside of the reliquary was the physical form of sevagoth.
My only issue with this is the finger, in cutscenes there's many different railjacks, and as we know in videogames cutscenes are cannon, do each have a different piece? I also feel it's contrived but also feel the high seven are still alive, it's in older lore entries that at least a few survived the massacre and are sleeping in the void somewhere.
So, this'll likely never see the light of day, but I feel as if the masked person that is seen in the weird voidscape with the orokin wurm, might be related to Harrow or the flight. I don't know why, but I feel as if they know something we don't, in a way. Also, here's a scary thought- the man in the wall, an Oro so to speak, had to become that way. He's clearly perfected editing the form he exists in. What if that finger is a part of his original form? What, if, he was from Alpha Centuri? And the sentients purged his kind, and after, were enlightened by the ruins?
So if the orokin were offered immortality an went into a existence between the void or a deeper part within the void itself
During the quest ending it refers to Hey kiddo it's been awhile
We assume that it's actually the man in the wall but what if it's actually the 7 as well each time you're shadow tenno what I refer to them as show up are actually the 7 checking in on the tenno an seeing the progress we have reached but I do believe that the selections we get between certain quest of light or dark what if we will choose to side with lotus or disagree with her an go against her an the sentients
Still reminds me of Evangelion. Tenno (kids born during 2nd Impact) only ones able to pilot Warframes (Evangelions, bioweapons made from their mothers being absorbed). The Seven (SEELE), Ballas (Gendo), and the Sentients (Angels, even Era looks exactly like the 3rd Angel, Sachiel). Although after 2nd Impact humans were no longer able to reproduce, this also effected Angels the same (like Sentients). Natah even speaks with Era about a Golden Spear (Lance of Longinus) or something like that. There are tons of similarities from that show but these are just the few that stick off top of my head.
What of the "man in the wall" is one of the 7? And kiddo is like a father to their child?
Just an idea, what if the 7 were tricked by the void, the man in the wall, and they are trying to escape and that’s why we hear the tapping in the glass
Maybe the seven keys help the railjack travel through time? Maybe that's how the duviri paradox starts?
I'm new here so I dont know if youve allready covered it but what about vor and hos key?
"you dont know the true power OF THE JANGUS KEY"
*haha key go insert*
and now we got the glassmaker guy, nihail or something, who is just like Ballas , still hanging
I don't know why I love this video so much
I'm actually more interested in finding out if Natah, in her manipulated grief at the near-death of Ballas....
Is conjuring a mimic of Erra as a means to push herself to carry out a war already long over.
Especially since it's Natah who seems to have sole control in waking the army, through song.
What if "Mother" did make the journey through the void, many years ago, only to die once reaching the other side.
and though she was made sterile... Those ships, The Murex.... Children of her womb, protected by it, survived. Able to reproduce. But needing to be woken, born... By a hate and vengeance only a sentient could have.
It’s sad because I game is glitched so I can’t get the personal quarters segment :(
Neat, a good lore channel, have a sub
Is no one going to talk about the mask that the adult wears in the duviri paradox trailer and how it’s the exact same as the shadowed person behind the text at the end?? Or how the skies inside the Paradox are human skulls ??
Any tips to finally get past rising tide?
I really like ur video s this gets me thinking on all possibilities of the flow the lore is going to go