The Qur'an's focus on Jerusalem: The Nazarene reading of the Qur'an Odon Lafontaine

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  • @thegreatsecretofislam
    @thegreatsecretofislam 2 місяці тому +20

    Thanks, Mel, for digging up this presentation! I can't believe it's been three years already. At least I had time enough to publish my English book! The PDF file of the presentation is available on my website ("A nazarene reading of the Quran part III")

    • @mapa3781
      @mapa3781 2 місяці тому +3

      Thanks for your work and making this knowledge available in English, Odon.

    • @catholicorthodoxfaith2689
      @catholicorthodoxfaith2689 2 місяці тому

      there were various christian churches. Byzantine, eqyptian monophtsite, syrian monophysite, Church of east (nestorian) etc. I believe each was referred with different names.

    • @robertdegroot8302
      @robertdegroot8302 2 місяці тому

      @thegreatsecretofislam - I noticed you don't mention Surah 2:85 in this talk or your book. I think that's a very strong clue to the proto-Muslims being Jews from Jerusalem.
      2:83 'We made a covenant with the Children of Israel. Then you turned away, except for a few of you'.
      2:85 "But here you are, killing your own, and expelling a group of your own from their homes-conspiring against them in wrongdoing and hostility"
      That must refer to a group of Jews being kicked out by other Jews. In Mecca there were no 'children of Israel' to kick out the Muslims.

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam 2 місяці тому +1

      @@robertdegroot8302 You're right, I did not mention the passage 2:83-85... It pinpoints (once again!) the existence of a very small subgroup among the Jews that remained faithful to God's covenant (contrary to all other Jews). They are the Nazarenes described by the Quran in my opinion.
      As for the killigns and the expulsions, it does not refer to the "sons of Israel" but the people the preacher is directly adressing (the Arab audience)

    • @thegreatsecretofislam
      @thegreatsecretofislam 2 місяці тому

      @@catholicorthodoxfaith2689 Trinitarian Christians (so every one of the Christians belonging to the Churches you mentioned) were all associationnists, "musrikun"

  • @mapa3781
    @mapa3781 2 місяці тому +10

    In the current war between Israel and the Hezbollah pictures emerged of a mini model of the Al Aqsa mosque inside Lebanon that had been bombed by the Israelis. This is a good example of how a place that became inaccessible to you for political reasons (Jerusalem) was rebuild somewhere else in order to remember it. Reminds me a lot of a possible shift from Jerusalem to Mecca.

  • @sirupate
    @sirupate 2 місяці тому

    My next job is to read Odon's book, I must have missed this superb video originally, thank you Mel for re-posting it

  • @coffeecup7084
    @coffeecup7084 Місяць тому

    I love ❤️ Odon thank you Mel

  • @mysotiras21
    @mysotiras21 2 місяці тому +4

    Yes, this is very strange. The Qur'an speaks of the "Mother of Cities", but its descriptions of that place are nothing like Mecca. They more closely match Jerusalem. This makes sense, since the historical mentions of a leader called "MHMD" have him warmongering near Jerusalem in 636 AD, not buried in Medina in 632 AD. Great video.

    • @BabaRabba2
      @BabaRabba2 2 місяці тому

      Its not Mecca, is Becca.

  • @midimusicforever
    @midimusicforever 3 години тому

    Well done!

  • @ross3818
    @ross3818 2 місяці тому

    1:05:30 Khazars were between the Caspian and Black Seas. In The Thirteenth Tribe, Arthur Koestler wrote about them.

    • @BabaRabba2
      @BabaRabba2 2 місяці тому

      The Khazars were a very small % of converts, the Ashkenazi Jews are not Khazars, they are descendants of Jews of Mediterranean, who escaped Rome and settled along the Reghn river, in what is called Germany today and Ashkenaz by the Jews. The converts of Khazars were less than 3% of the Jews.

    • @ross3818
      @ross3818 2 місяці тому

      @@BabaRabba2 as Koestler explains.

  • @andrewcole4843
    @andrewcole4843 2 місяці тому

    Thanks. I enjoyed the book - it had me pulled between looking at old maps and place names and reading the revised sense of koranic verses that suddenly moved from being abrogated to being anachronistic.

  • @blockingtheology5573
    @blockingtheology5573 2 місяці тому +3

    Petra seems to fit much better the description of a secret but fortfied city.

  • @mushrikun3029
    @mushrikun3029 2 місяці тому +3

    Can you put a link to part 1 and 2 in the discription? Thank you!

  • @sasa_sasa_sasa230
    @sasa_sasa_sasa230 2 місяці тому +4

    I have one question? What group of Judeo Nazarens was that? Any historical clue?

    • @kellyprell3206
      @kellyprell3206 2 місяці тому +2

      I think the aramaic folios would be more insightful. Whoever translated into arabic had a political agenda.

    • @ramonav.6983
      @ramonav.6983 2 місяці тому

      Could they be the ancestors of today's Messianic Jews? Messianic Jews recognize Jesus as the Messiah.

    • @abj136
      @abj136 2 місяці тому +2

      @@ramonav.6983 I think Messianic Jews today are simply Christians who also hold on to their Jewish heritage and practices.

  • @Zebred2001
    @Zebred2001 2 місяці тому +1

    Saint Murad has now produced the only accurate translation of the koran into English. What must now be produced is an annotated koran!

    • @BabaRabba2
      @BabaRabba2 2 місяці тому

      The Real Original Quran was written in Aramaic.

  • @SunbreathingShadow
    @SunbreathingShadow 2 місяці тому +4

    Jerusalem vs Mecca

  • @Stupidityindex
    @Stupidityindex 2 місяці тому +3

    Is faith more respectable when you find prophets & cherubim in the Yellow Pages?

  • @atifbangash
    @atifbangash 2 місяці тому

    Month of Olives AKA (OCTOBER-NOVEMBER)

  • @joebloggs1356
    @joebloggs1356 2 місяці тому +3

    The emergence of Kabbalahism from the ruins of the Donme Sabateans that moved to Eastern Europe v those who wrote a new relgion in the 8thC to legitimise and make sense of a 7thC messianism storm in Persia and Arabia (add in the spice of Sufism and Zoroastrian orientialism) .
    The Gordian Knot of relgion that has been tied since Jesus fulfilled the Law. Christians; be careful how you step in this quagmire.

    • @abj136
      @abj136 2 місяці тому

      Your text would only make sense to the rest of us if you expanded this with 10x more detail. As is, it’s vaguely something that might be plausible but I can’t figure it out.

  • @ross3818
    @ross3818 2 місяці тому

    A couple of the definitions of Q.B.L. in Hebrew are "before [one]", and "visible". There are ramifications but these are the more primitive meanings.

  • @davidhansen1811
    @davidhansen1811 2 місяці тому

    (1) The list 16 items presented at about the 9 minutes mark of this video is said by Odon LaFontaine to present 16 items that are ALL applicable to Jerusalem. Other than Abraham setting aside seven ewes before Abimelech in Genesis 21, I do not find Abraham doing seven anything in the book of Genesis (but see Odon’s Item 2). The 'offering' of Isaac at Mount Moriah is found in Genesis 22. I can find nothing about seven in that incident or in connection with it, not in fact anywhere in the Bible. Jacob bowed to Esau seven times (Gen 33) and the Torah has many many instances (ceremonial and otherwise) of the number seven. (2) As for any circumambulation around a place, I only find the instance(s) associated with Jericho. (3) In Genesis 18:22 and 19:27 we do have Abraham pointedly standing before the Lord, in what one might call a spiritually significant manner. (4) An interesting “Bekka” reference occurs in Psalm 84:6, in connection with pools (which Jerusalem does have) and a valley. (5) Mel: ecclesia does not mean people who “stand” in some sense, it means a ‘called out’ people,. Its etymology does not involve the idea of standing, see WE Vine (it is simply ‘e’ for out, a prefix, followed by ‘kaleo’, called). Ecclesia does not have its origin in out-standing.

  • @ross3818
    @ross3818 2 місяці тому

    It is a modern Israel tradition that has fallen out of fashion to walk around Mount Gilboa during Passover. Hmm!

  • @robertdegroot8302
    @robertdegroot8302 2 місяці тому +5

    I don't understand how there can be so many errors in the Quran if the texts were produced by Jewish teachers. Mary being the sister of Aaron and daughter of Amran. Mary being part of the Trinity. Scripture being given to Abraham. Abraham coming out of the fire, which is a Thalmudic tradition. Dhul Qarnayn being a monotheist. Absence of the name YHWH. Zacharia being the father of John the Baptist. It really seems to me most of the Quran was written by people who knew very little about the Bible. Could it be that only some Surahs, like Surah 2 which apparently was a separate book originally, came from the Jews?
    Edit: a youtuber recently said Quran's Zacharia is the old king, not the priest. I guess that was a mistake.

    • @ramonav.6983
      @ramonav.6983 2 місяці тому +2

      A text that is not to the liking of authoritarian leaders can be easily changed by loyal people. We see this in the current dictatorships. Let's not forget that copies of the Koran were destroyed that did not correspond to a version chosen by a person with authority.

    • @mysotiras21
      @mysotiras21 2 місяці тому +5

      Zechariah WAS the Father of John the Baptist. Aside from that, the Qur'an is the product of MANY authors with conflicting views, not just Judeo-Nazarenes. The book shows signs of heavy editing.
      "My idea is that the Koran is a kind of COCKTAIL OF TEXTS that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants.
      "The Koran claims for itself that it is 'mubeen', or 'clear', but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn't make sense. Many Muslims-and Orientalists-will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Koranic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Koran is not comprehensible-if it can't even be understood in Arabic-then it's not translatable. People fear that. And since the Koran claims repeatedly to be clear but obviously is not-as even speakers of Arabic will tell you-there is a contradiction. Something else must be going on." (Gerd Puin)

    • @robertdegroot8302
      @robertdegroot8302 2 місяці тому +1

      @@ramonav.6983 The oldest Quranic manuscript ever found is the Birmingham folio, and that includes Surah 19 where Mary is identified as Aaron's sister.
      If anything, editors of the Quran would have removed major mistakes, not added them.

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 2 місяці тому +1

      ​@@robertdegroot8302.
      That explanation of O sister of Aaron. The word Ukta is termed as meaning sister.
      It's likely a bs Farsi or modern Arabic definition.
      Ukta is similar to akta.I think in Sanscript akta means Anointed,and in other languages it means godly person.
      It possible the verse is not even talking about Mary being Aaron's sister. It's likely the verse is just making a reference that Aaron was anointed.
      Even the daughter of Emran terming is likely bs also. The root BNT is explained as meaning daughter by way of Farsi or/and modern Arabic. Yet BNT in other semetic root means Lady. Hence the verse is likely saying that Mary was a lady of Emran.

    • @truthprevails5173
      @truthprevails5173 2 місяці тому +1

      Jibreel cleverly tricked billions of people 😂

  • @BabaRabba2
    @BabaRabba2 2 місяці тому

    The Real Original Quran was written in Aramaic. It has connection to Sectarian Jews the authentic followers, those that Saul of Tarsus persecuted.

  • @MARTIN-fd7om
    @MARTIN-fd7om 13 днів тому

    Intent on replacing Isaac with Ishmael.

  • @OrdoMallius
    @OrdoMallius 2 місяці тому +1

    Ohio mushrik-kun!

  • @BabaRabba2
    @BabaRabba2 2 місяці тому

    Jerusalem is not mentioned in Quran.

  • @monoteismul
    @monoteismul Місяць тому

    Because bayt is an ancient aramaic world that mean that is pointing to Jerusalem??? What kind of analysis is this??? This is pure intelectual game of specualtions. This is not a serious thing

  • @bobfisher1909
    @bobfisher1909 2 місяці тому

    So, who currupted the Quran / lectionary; noun
    a list or book of portions of the Bible appointed to be read at divine service.
    "The Deacon was given the task of preparing a new lectionary"
    3:3 says Muhammad was giving the Arabic Quran to confirm the Bible, but it does the opposite!!
    What funny the Quraysh tribe did similar to Islam, but they worshipped Hubal and threw arrows at idols to please their god, Islam worship Sin / Suen and throw stones, both circumambulate around the Kaaba.
    The Quraysh worshipped Allah as the chief god represented by the Moon, with three daughter goddesses controlling other aspects of reality, and Ackbar the Sun goddess, the wife of Allah, represented by the Sun.
    This is why in the name of Muhammad real name has Allat and why his father was a slave to Allah the moon god.
    One thing to take out of these pagan cults they all worship the moon either in full or crescent doesn't matter it's still the moon, I wonder if they got this moon worship from the Greeks as they have Selene the greatest moon god with the crescent moon and golden horns, she the one with the flying horse or donkey (Buraq) Muhammad night journey perhaps taken from this Selene goddess. GBY both great seeing the truth revealed.

  • @atifbangash
    @atifbangash 2 місяці тому

    Title: A New Revelation: The Festival of Tabernacles and the Truth Ahead
    The Festival of Tabernacles will be celebrated for a profound reason: The Messiah was born on the last day of the festival-October 12th, 1979-in the lineage of Queen Esther. On the day of his birth, the world saw the largest storm ever recorded, Hurricane TIP, which coincidentally aligns with his name, 'Atif,' from the Bangash (Benjamin) lineage. On Oct 19th 1979, the event caused disruptions for both the '13 Eagles' and 'Vultures' alike.
    But there’s more. Starting this week, the Messiah will speak about the corruption caused by the Roman Empire. They didn’t just destroy the Library of Alexandria and the Second Temple-they sought out those who held the true scriptures, attempting to erase and alter them for their own purposes.
    Soon, the Kingdom's blueprint will be revealed, It's an App with the Kingdom Code-a plan that will shift power away from the wicked and place it in the hands of those who truly deserve it.
    The suffering Servant(Yes I am injured in my neck and suffering)

  • @mhmdyounis8227
    @mhmdyounis8227 2 місяці тому

    Israelis talking about the quran 😂 stop lying habibi 😂😂😂

  • @tauseefhussain3936
    @tauseefhussain3936 2 місяці тому +1

    🍉1. Make Jerusalem an international city under complete UN control
    🍉2. Return to pre 1967 borders
    🍉3. End occupation of West Bank
    🍉4. Return Golan heights
    🍉5. Change constitution to provide equal rights for all citizens
    🍉 Free Palestine

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 2 місяці тому

      United Nations cannot be trusted.
      Sharia law junk countries would not obey UN,hence don't expect Israel too do so.
      If Israel left orders to the UN to govern,then Israel would be islamic junk Sharia land in no time.

    • @asifbrettishmaelmakki9
      @asifbrettishmaelmakki9 2 місяці тому

      Forget UN having full control.
      Sharia law does not bow to UN,hence don't expect Israel to submit to junk UN.
      If UN had control,then Israel would become Sharia junk law land in no time.

    • @davidh4374
      @davidh4374 2 місяці тому

      🍉5 makes 🍉's 1-4 _irrelevant_
      with fully equal rights, wouldn't it be better for _anybody_ for them to be _inside_ the borders rather than outside?

    • @abj136
      @abj136 2 місяці тому

      Make New York an international city under complete UN control. Do you understand how nobody would agree to such an idea?

    • @mysotiras21
      @mysotiras21 2 місяці тому

      NO SUCH PLACE as "Palestine". Made-up word that designates no real country. Free Gaza and the West Bank for evil Islam and criminal Hamas, and the problem will be solved.

  • @sefced-mb2hv
    @sefced-mb2hv 2 місяці тому +1

    Guys, lets be clear on this.
    Quran came from no other than God, through Angel gabriel to Muhammad.
    It is a continuation of previous scriptures and as last sppeech from God to us, before judgement day takes place.
    Every 'religion' today has been distorted and so has 'islam' too. All religions have been in a sense nationalised.
    Put all religions on side and all that they teach and all our preconceptions about them. They are not based on God's revelations purely but man made lies.
    Lets take God's books and read them alone.
    You will be amazed.
    In God's call to us, there is no ethnicity, nationality, ect.

    • @User0980-s9o
      @User0980-s9o 2 місяці тому +2

      Jibril is Dihyah al-Kalbi

    • @abj136
      @abj136 2 місяці тому +2

      This channel demonstrates that what you have been told about the Quran is not how it happened. The Torah is God’s revelation to Moses, and the Quran contradicts the Torah. Jesus is God revealed himself, in the Injeel. Read these.

    • @abj136
      @abj136 2 місяці тому +1

      Why does the Quran contradict these when it claims to explicitly confirm them? It’s because the Quran and its interpretation were altered and not eternally unchanged.

    • @blockingtheology5573
      @blockingtheology5573 2 місяці тому

      If You want proof that the claim of revelation is wrong read Lüling "A Challenge to Islam for Reformation".

    • @mysotiras21
      @mysotiras21 2 місяці тому

      LOL!!! Sure, and my left foot is a unicorn! LAY OFF THE OPIOIDS! The Qur'an is a JOKE, a cocktail of texts STOLEN from dozens of ancient sources. Allah was nothing but a pagan stone idol, with a wife and daughters. Muhammad NEVER EXISTED. There is ZERO 7th century historical evidence for him. We are dealing with FACTS here, NOT Islamic FAIRYTALES. Cope.

  • @ALSHARIF5151
    @ALSHARIF5151 2 місяці тому

    I respect all your work... But the big Question:
    Is Jerusalem the one in Palestine or Israel today or is it in Mecca Where was The legitimate heir to Abraham is his first son, Ishmael, and his sons.?!? And the What about the Torah? Does it have a single percentage of the language in which it was written? He messed with it, turned it It was translated into Greek but the real enlightenment was Romans and the Seventieth Translation From hebro aramic greek English .. Why they are removed the Maccabee book .. that's big hhh Who is Judah Maccabee and his family... who became the Romans and the Jews who were not originally from him! They fought and achieved many championships. Is it reasonable to delete them? Because Maccabi is the one who returns to Mecca. Who are the Hashemite rabbis or their priests? They are the Hashemites, the custodians of the Kaaba and its priests, from whom Muhammad came. They ruled for 100 years. I have a lot of very, very, very much evidence of the forgery that occurred by the Romans and the Abbasids. And about the existence of Mecca and that the Arabs and Israel are one and the same and are cousins...the names, customs, clothing, and culture inherited from Abraham to this day are only for the Arabs and Israelis... You are not doing your homework correctly... Find a forgery from Constantine and his occupation until Islam came You will be amazed 😮😢😮😮😅😅😅😂😂😮😮😅