You know this dude is spitting facts because Murray blocked him on twitter. He blocked me too when I was frustrated of everyone reading the patch notes and I couldnt find them on any official BamCo or TK7 channels/websites. Apparently, Michael Murray were posting them on his personal twitter acc page by page coz, apparently, he was translating them alone, lol. He was late comparing official Japan patch notes like 2-3 days behind! So, I twitted on my repost of the patch notes something like that: "Yo, isnt this game sold like 7-8 millions copies? Isnt you a big company, Bamco? Why eng patch is so late and they are posted in personal acc of the worker? Every indie devs post patch notes before patch lol" and he blocked me. True story.
1. poor security 2. no different game modes(Survival, time attack...etc). 3. there is no freedom of customization(No decal function). 4. There is no combo trial mode(For example, the system of sfex, sf4, sf5...) 5. Lack of practice mode as in item 4.
Street Fighter x Tekken was able to animate hellsweep to make it look less stupid, so it's a bit unfortunate that it looks so strange in Tekken proper.
Superb edits and overall a well written video! I’m foaming on my mouth right now just imagining if they actually put these training features and quality of life updates you mentioned into TEKKEN 8 (though I don’t really get how one can download a pro player’s data and apply it to an AI to replicate in an offline situation) Also, good doggo.
Thank you, bro! I appreciate you checking it out! My VO is still kind of awkward. I did bank on the memes and edits carrying me a bit 😂 The shadow mode was introduced in KI (and, I believe, the latest SamSho) I linked to a vid explaining it further in the description! Check it out, it's crazy! Obvs you'll need the internet to download the data, but once you're playing, you're playing with a downloaded file locally, not against a server in another part of the world.
Good dog! One issue I've had with Tekken ever since 3, and exacerbated since I started trying to actually learn how to play Tekken in 6, is the movelist and mechanics bloat. So many characters have tens of moves that are completely useless, with 10-strings sticking out the most. There are also janky half-baked mechanics left since forever, like Kazuya's mist step, whatever stun requires you to hold forward to be able to block, "chickening", get-up spring cross chops launching on block if you jab, etc. Additionally, since Tekken is absolutely shit at explaining what the fuck is going on, if you don't have a buddy who knows, or a community to ask, you're just screwed, which is terrible design.
Yep, you NEED to find the info elsewhere, cos the game ain't telling you shit. Tho I don't mind niche mechanics or lots of moves cos they give you lots of ways to express yourself (and catch people off guard in some cases), but I expect the game to tell me how to utilise them at least!
I just want to go back to the good old days of Tekken 6, no 2d characters, fair balancing, bound, gameplay that doesn't rely on combo damage, and of course, Bruce and old Lars.
20:20 SFV came out in a barebones state, and a lot of things were only fixed ages later, after many characters were added to the game Guilty Gear Strive is the most barebones entry in the entire series, understandably because of Covid, yet no efforts have been made to patch that, despite we already being at the fourth DLC character with Baiken. I would cite Melty Blood Type Lumina as part of the bunch, but Aoko and DAN were given for free, so it's hard to criticize
From what I hear, SFV has kind of turned around a bit since Ono left. This issue is kind of endemic to gaming itself, but I think with FGs the lack of QoL is quite glaring since we frequently spend hundreds of hours with our games.
Great video! Spitting some real home truths. A few other issues I have with the game are: - Too many (often pointless) balance updates. It's already enough to keep track of 50 something characters and learn matchups, but on top of that the game has changed the properties of hundreds of moves along the way, to the point I feel like I have to relearn the entire game every few months to keep up. The belief that "with balance updates they can keep improving the game as time goes on" has proven to be nothing but a pipedream. We've had several moves get changed in a specific way only to get changed back to their original state later on. I guess because the change was pointless in the first place? - High/mid/low being difficult to figure out at times. So many mids look like highs and vice versa, and this is exacerbated by moves having their properties changed without changing the animation. Lars' df21, Claudio's 43, Gigas' ff42 etc... Ganryu's f2 hits super low but is actually a mid for some reason. And don't get me started on Geese's qcb2. The move literally punches through the heads of Kuma and Gigas when they crouch, but hits high! - Everyone is too buffed. So many of the cast can just do it all, and feel too powerful. Take season 1 Dragunov, who was considered the best in the game. Now compare that with the current Dragunov, who is waaaay stronger of a character, but isn't even in contention for high tier! Have a character with a certain weakness to overcome? Not any more! We'll give Marduk, a character with ridiculous damage already, an amazing 12 frame punisher that leads to throw setups. Why not? And I say that as someone who plays Marduk. He did not need to be buffed!
Yeah, there's sometimes good uses for misleading hitboxes, but tekken does seem to cross the line into bullshit territory. Also, exactly on the power front. I'm personally fine with high damage, but when toolkits have 0 gaps, it becomes boring to play, and frustrating to play against. Like rough example cos I'm not super experienced in it yet, but Potemkin in Strive has *wild* damage, but his movement sucks and can't easily open people up with things like cross ups. Or in Tekken, Paul is VERY strong, but at least compared to current S tiers I don't feel like he's so bad. Simply because of his lack of long range pokes, meaning he cracks easily against fast, safe characters like Alisa etc. If Paul was a DLC character, he'd have an orbital, demo would work on nh, and his hopkick would power crush.
@@RedLineFGC Yep, I get where you're coming from. Characters can have great strengths but it works better when supplemented by certain weaknesses. I brought up Marduk specifically because when he released, I considered that his high damage and amazing throw game were contrasted by his weak punishment, with his 13 and 15 frame punishers having bad range meaning he'd often have to rely on jabs, and his WS punishment is perhaps the worst in the game. And that was fine, it was a weakness for him to deal with to compensate, and I could get behind that. But in a patch they suddenly gave him uf12, a high damage 12 frame punisher that sets up the opponent for his throw game or close range rushdown tools. It just feels so unnecessary, especially for a character that was already very strong. Also, lots of characters have been given super easy and universal wall carry tools, instead of requiring you to switch up your combos for optimal damage if approaching a wall.
@@Slick_Tails Hard agree, what's worse is they outlined that exact thing as a problem in that overhaul announcement (full timestamped vid in desc) they wanted to fix. Then just did the opposite 😂
I think, with a tiny bit of generalization, this video could be any [modern fighting game] - A [Number] Year Critique. It's crazy how many features are in other fighting games that should really be mandatory for the largest fighting game franchises.
In terms of the story why does it feel like all of the characters don't matter except the Mishima's? Where the lore is currently it seems like all the fighters don't really have a need to exist. And the king of the Iron fist stuff just felt forced into the plot because that's the status quo with tekken. I mean two major corporations just basically started world war 3 and Heihachi for some stupid reason thought it was good idea to host a martial arts tournament? The writing in this series has definitely taken a turn for the worse.
Honestly someone could write a thesis on all the things that make Tekken 7 absolute trash imo. A terrible low point for the franchise. Terrible content. Like this trash makes Soul Calibur 5 look "content rich". One of the worst story modes I've ever witnessed....even by fighting game standards. Pretty much NO SP content, or evolution of content. No Ghost Mode, Tekken Force, worse costumes and customizations. Worse music, and stages. (Ironically the best tracks and stages were recycled from, or remixes from previous, MUCH better Tekken games). DATED AF graphics, that gives Unfinished Fighter V a run for its money. This is strange for the franchise that has looked absolutely stellar since Tekken 3. Animations recycled since TTT1 on the PS2, almost non existent facial animations. Keep in mind every tekken character in T5 & T6 had an average of 3 different intro and win animations. You could even control which ones you wanted manually. Some characters even had four. Too many stupid comeback mechanics.. Tekken has HYPER ARMOUR now? Lazy AF rage drives, and rage arts? Super moves? Like half the mechanics are simply ripped off from Street Fighter, and are poorly implemented. Legacy Fighters locked behind paywalls and season passes, while trash like Gigas....GIGAS, Katarina and Lucky Chloe are pushed. Kuma and Pana have DIFFERENT CHARACTER SLOTS... you can't make this up LMAO. Josie and Fahkumram are basically repackaged Bruce sold to you as new characters. Jose's rage art is literally a recycled animation from SC5's Xiba. There are so many thing wrong with this game, beneath the flashy, bloated comeback mechanics for newbies; that I can't list all of them in one comment. But Harada san's more than happy to sell us characters that should have been in the box in the first place. Frame data, and gimmicky guest characters....Tekken is my favourite fighting game, but honestly T7's the first Tekken I gladly uninstalled, and sold almost immediately. I'm playing TTT2, and T6 instead.... No way in hell I'm supporting SCAMCO SCAMDAI, if this is where the franchise is headed.
My personal gripes: *T7 newcomers:* a majority of them are fucking boring looks and gameplay wise, hella easy to use and just not memorable. Is anyone really going to miss Gigas or Lucky Chloe? The only ones that I liked personally was Lidia. Yeah she needs nerfs but stance mix ups, some execution including instant running 1 and multiple blue sparks moves was definitely different than what we were getting from the rest of the T7 newcomers. There was some ambition there, I really felt it. *Pay to win DLC* : I thought we've moved past the OP easy to use characters from T6 such as Bob and Lars...now we're borderline making incentives to buy OP, braindead characters like Leroy and Fahk? I'm a strong believer if you're bad, you SHOULD stay bad unless you decide to improve yourself. We don't need to make game breaking characters for low self esteem neckbeards on Reddit to carry them out of the green and yellow ranks. *best of 3* : like you said T7 lets too many people favor one and dones. And I would love to torture all these 5k-10k win cherry picking wierdos who always run away from rematches in a quick set. It will do you good if you learn from losses, try to adapt, instead of running away....like a bitch *cough,cough* *nerfed movement* : side step is too inconsistent and being able to to avoid BS pressure would help people get rid of this stigma that YOU HAVE TO LAB EVERY SINGLE MOVE. Hwoarangs and Williams sisters would die online if you can consistently side step their BS pressure. Side note: no more homing hellsweeps or launching lows(fuck Devil Jin and Anna). *No more 2d/weeb characters* : i don't want to fight jumping shotos with projectiles, braindead Noctis and Kunimitsu players or look at Alisa anymore.
Agree with just about everything, I don't mind gigas, but yeah you can see a difference between his design and Lidia's despite her balance issue. I don't mind launching lows so much, but they should be avoidable or at least not UNSEEABLE lol
I think the issue with Harada not accepting criticism is just a Bandai Namco thing. Just look at Dark Souls' RCE exploit. It literally took the entire internet and actual application of the exploit in a more benign setting on a streamer to actually get Bandai Namco to do anything at all.
Someone recommended this to me and I remembered your Paul edited from last time. I subscribed because of this video! 😊 👍 You make VERY good points! especially at 6:45, 8:45 and at 15:22 It is pretty inconvenient for people who make content/videos for tekken and have replays but need to watch the entire thing to record it. It would be absolutely amazing if there were a download option in game. Without it, it adds up and takes time. Same for the load screens. It takes about 40 seconds (and more from watching intros) and that's space taken up or can be clipped. It's still frustrating to not have the ability to skip intros or Get Ready for the Next Battle on replays. I also agree with what you said about the statistics. That's a new take on it, I haven't heard of that before but its GENIUS. They should show your weaknesses instead of the 3 stats and show which matchup you struggle in. Just everything in this video --I'm so glad you pointed them out! I think most people would agree (if not they should lol) that all the problems with tekken 7 should be fixed instead of getting more dlc characters, because there are other games like you said that are excelling and are more fun than it's current state. It's unfortunate because it's "Tekken" it's a fun game, but sometimes it's just so bad and so outdated xD It needs to keep up with the modern times and Bamco NEEDS to listen to their community. Not expect us to have fun behind a pay wall and that pay wall isn't even fun. (lol it's so sad Murray blocked you in the video) We will just find some other game that treat us better, which most people have by now. Tekken 7 is good, but not great.
Exactly! The base game of Tekken is so damn fun, but it's a weird mountain of tiny issues that just build up and build up. QoL that is undoubtedly important but easily forgotten. They're like the bass player in the band that is game design. Thanks very much for the support dude! I appreciate it!
@@RedLineFGC Yes definitely! Tekken is special, I think it stands out from the other fighting games not because it's popular but because it's just Tekken-like lol. It does have it's pros, but if it were to be better, Tekken 8 better deliver all those ideas :3
The best tool would be to copying the inputs of opponent from the replay mode, and pasting it into practice mode. I am Anna main, I don't want to practice EWGF just to practice launch punishing that shit.
Yeah, exactly. Like you can have the bot replay moves from the movelist, but string options and specific set ups (like frame perfect moves) is a no go.
Do it 😈 (it's very different from Tekken but stick with it, and once it clicks, the flow state feels unreal because your options are *much* more consistent than T7)
One thing I'll suggest that i wasn't covered is that in addition to reducing the roster size, make the move lists for the individual characters shorter. There's so many strings that are worthless when you understand how to beat them and the game is bloated with knowledge checks. At the very least remove the stupid ass ten strings
I think I like the longer movelist (imagine how crap Lei or Yoshi would be with a shortened movelist - half their appeal is its literally like playing 5 characters at once lol) esp with the smaller roster (as long as it doesn't meant characters are just given every tool again or just a bunch of strings), I think a large movelist would offset people's worry about longevity. Cos you would, in theory, be able to play differently than another player playing your char esp since the meta won't be just run up and force 5050 cos they can't avoid it, your other moves might suddenly have some use. But yeah 10 strings seems pointless and just tacked on by obligation at this point. I mean look at the animation styles between Kaz 10hit and Negan 10hit. Kaz has kept the same goofy looking 10hit since T2, but Megan's at least looks like how a human might move lol
I agree with this. I would also like more single player content. Since arcade mode was mid and treasure is only fun for so long. Wish I knew more about the characters then the chapter fights and what was in the story mode. Tekken force and tekken bowl would be great returns like you mentioned as well.
Please Bamco, hire this guy! :) While I agree on most things in the video . Throws should revert to old ways, but giving most characters only a 1 or 2 is just soooo easy to break for us who have learned to break on reaction. Even giving Grapplers an extra 1+2 that is not misleading is not enough, it will be broken as easy as 1 or 2 for us that are used to this. I don't have a perfect break ratio, some times I press 1+2 unevenly on my stick but other wise I break most throws consistently even when I have my hands some where else or are in the middle of inputting a move, and I've meet people who are even better, basically break every throw, every time, no matter what. Grapplers need their ambiguous animations to even have a chance against good players. This or some thing else need to be done about throws. I personally think throws are mostly useless in the upper ranks. I would almost prefer throws to be a true guess and if you guess wrong you end up in a minor mixup situation instead. . The rooster of only 25 would be great but if you removed Julia as well, you have only 4 females left. That's not gonna fly in my book, even though I'm not a waifu player.
Yeah, the grab thing is a difficult one to fix. I think lowering the break window, and making 1 or 2 breaking only L or R throws would increase the threat a lot. But I've never played the original games to this extent so I couldn't personally claim it would definitely fix my issues with it. The misleading animations aren't really the main issue to me, since I don't break giant swing by sight, but by read, but mostly that so many non grappler chars have too many options already, so a full grab game on top is just silly. And that grapplers were then given the misleading breaks because it's the only way up from a full grab game, right? Perhaps some kind of option for grapplers to still have an advantage if their throws are broken, such as being +, or being able to chain into another grab attempt would alleviate that. So everyone has faster breaks, but only grapplers have the three way, and when you break their throws they're still in a good position, rather than reset to neutral.
Nah personally I didn't like the old throw break system bc I remember people used to spam throws when they were pressured, exploiting the fact that it was nearly unbreakable in that situation since you didn't have as much time to process it visually. And in high ranks, I like the fact that even though they are not as useful, they can be used to reset the neutral game by providing a momentary break. Also, the 1+2 still switches side for most characters to avoid walls, that is something I would like to see implemented to all characters
@@RedLineFGC I kinda have a mixed feeling on the grab thing issue. I used to play the older tekken versions especially the ones where the break window was so small. Other players would abuse the grab move. I used to play arcades and a lot of players do this. It was annoying to the point that the whole round, an enemy of mine just throw jabs and grabs when near. It was ok if it wasn't happening a lot of the time, but most arcade players i've faced do this, and its annoying because you can't break the grabs unless you guess right.
What a great video, very entertaining and informative! If the Tekken devs implemented half of these suggested features it would already make the game so much better and fun to learn..
Thank you, bro! I was playing with this in my head and was like, God I'd fucking love playing this game. Funnily enough, VF4E on the PS2 really does have the a lot of these features, including match recording, sans netplay lol
Good vid, about combos and damage i think strive made a great job. You got burst and big damage works if you dont wanna watch cutscene of your death for 10+ secs
Yeah exactly, the damage is wild in strive, but the matches and such move so fast that you're back in and pressing buttons relatively quickly. I think 2-3 combos to death suits tekken well, but currently it's more like 1 combo into mixup at the wall and you're dead lol It's a fine line, but currently you don't get many chances to "make decisions" beyond "how am I gonna get up after this 10min cutscene" lol
18:02 LOOK GARY THERE I AM!!! (I'm the Kaz player in that vid). Overall great video, and I'm glad youtube recommended me your channel again. Your hitbox guide helped a lot a long time ago, and most of your thoughts here reflect my own. I would love for this game to have just basic features that almost every fighting game has. This game might beat Tekken 3 as the best selling of all-time, so they can't even use the low budget excuse anymore.
Eyyyy! Clean combo, too! Yeah, it's kind of a shame they didn't try a bit harder with this one, and I can't help but get confused when people defend a lack of content. I have a feeling, despite my meming, Murray is tryna get this stuff added. But only time will tell, I think.
Good dog. You make a lot of good points, so I don't have too much to say about them: you're right, you're concise, and you clearly understand the game better than I do. The only thing I can nitpick is that you said matches should be exportable as video files - it's actually much easier for both developers and players if these are exported as replay files (match1.tk7). These can be shared more easily, and having a simple data file is much easier to for a game to interact with than a video file. GGXXAC+R and Them's Fightin' Herds actually both do this, and the ability to share information is much more nuanced in that game: literally just go to the game's directory, copy the files to a hosting site, and send your buddies a link. Then again, this feature would require Japanese game developers to understand how computers work, which is dubious at best. Cheater blacklists saved LOCALLY. FRIGGIN' LOL. Combos are tricky to gauge in games without bursts or combo breaker mechanics, which is why I think games that don't have them should seriously think about how they want combos to feel, look, and be interacted with by the player. If there's the genuine chance a player will be sitting in a combo for more than 5 seconds on a regular basis (ignoring meter, resources, stage position, etc.), then that's about the line I think is acceptable. More than that, and it tends towards VS game combos, of which Skullgirls has by far the worst. What I think the game needs to succeed artistically (it's already done so financially) is to stop making the characters so boring and lifeless. I play mostly airdashers/anime games, specifically Guilty Gear, so obviously I'm biased in favour of insane charactesr - but every character in Tekken feels indistinct, which is odd for a game with robots, dinosaurs, martial artists, secret agents, assassins, and bears that practice karate. Every character has the same """walk animation""" (except Negan, for some reason), every character has the same crouch animation, there are no idle animations, and so on. Characters don't grunt when they get hit or punched through walls, and they rarely do cool, unique character stuff except as combo filler or gimmicks. That's the biggest thing. I can pick up Guilty Gear and see the characters giving off some emotion in the game IMMEDIATELY, and that only grows deeper with unique win quotes and intro animations. Tekken 7 in particular looks and feels like plastic dolls are moving around a generic UE4 landscape, which is probably accurate to how the game was developed. I'll have a look at some of your other videos. Keep up the good work in the meantime.
Yeah, the video output was mainly a selfish request as an editor 👀 Mainly cos when the game updates currently, it deletes all recorded games you have saved (which maxes at 30...) But yeah they'd need to actually learn how computers work which is a pipe dream lol. 5 second combos would be much more bearable! When you add the current combo durations on top of the other UI UX issues, it starts to feel like the game is just wasting your time. Also I agree, Tekken chars have some charm to them despite being pretty plain, but there are so many missed opportunities for characterisation! And thank you! I only have one more essay,about trying alternative FGs, but I'm working on more 🙏
The thing about propaganda, is it needs to 'trickle' into the people's minds slowly. Show them a little bit here and there, and soon we'll have a weird qanon-like cult of VF fanatics, you watch!
I agree with some things like the whole U.I. section needs some stealing from a lot of games. Aside from that, I believe that you should be able to uninstall the story mode for space reasons cause those voice lines and FMV's take up quite a bit. However I'd like to say that in terms of practice mode, Frame data should be a given for free and idk why they made us pay for it at first, but the extra stuff like stating your weakness and having a tutorial about said weaknesses to me sorta ruins the fun of the game and fighting games in general. Replays and frame data should be enough and what Tekken 7 provides in terms of the replays on when it STOPS when you should punish something or when you should duck, that's actually a lot of information. Also, the character roster is fine the way it is imo, cause if we're being honest, if you only have the essentials in Tekken, that makes the game insanely boring and does not make Tekken, Tekken to me, but maybe that's just me.
6:08 ive been talking about that for soo long i swear i would love this and that the game gets some data from your matches and sees how you play and stuff if you parry alot defensive aggresive and suggests a character for you and also 6:54
I'll take that dub. Admittedly, I wouldn't mind the story method they used now, if they were more effective at telling stories this way, and included the whole cast. But since they seem to struggle I think the safest bet is to go back. Esp since it ties into encouraging players to experiment with more of the cast, and thus learn more of the game.
@@RedLineFGC Unfortunately it has less to do with the method and more to do with them not knowing how to do stories at all. It's been this way since T5. Until they hire writers again and get over T4's reception, nothing's ever gonna change.
Yeah, I was saying elsewhere, I'm actually pretty fluid on the roster itself, even the amount. But, even though I think a smaller roster would mitigate some of the issues we've seen, it's possible that providing proper training tools and a more robust movement/tracking system would probably fix 90% of my problems with T7 (barring QoL features) But figure it was safe to come at the problem(s) from every conceivable angle.
I just want to say that you earned a subscriber for the sick quotes about our current society... ...oh yeah and the very good and fun to watch analysis of Tekken 7.( a series I’ve been thinking of getting into for a while. Maybe tekken 3?) The explanations definitely made the wait for the next quote worth it.
I wish! Also, nice! I've been subbed to you on my "main" acct for a minute! (read: account I can't abandon cos there are 200 videos in my watch later list)
That'd honestly be awesome, Akira is so cool. But I wonder how well they'd translate given the amount of buttons available. I'm sure they could do it, but right now I just have to play Paul for that shoulder barge and sick damage.
@@RedLineFGC Haradas favorite VF character is Goh and even joked around with Aoki during Haradas Bar that Goh would be more of a complete character if he developed him.
@@RedLineFGC haha Harada is a VF stan. Gohs my main too and he definitely would fit in with the Tekken VF. Hell, as linear as he is they should have put him in T7 lol. He also said Yamazaki was considered as the KOF candidate.
@@mikeg4490 Oh, I think I've heard that somewhere. At this point I've gone kind of sour on T7, and only enjoy lobbies. If they do do guest characters again then I hope they save it for T8
Big mid and high hitting moves should have a different animation after it gets blocked (relative to the animation if the move whiffed) similar to how big low moves do when they're blocked. Will make launch punishment in a game with thousands of moves a bit more intuitive.
Agreed! I think some moves being ambiguous on chars like Lei or Yoshi would be interesting, but there's too many examples of weird moves like this on chars where it doesn't make sense
I just want more offline content (8-stage arcade mode, team battle, survival, VS CPU, better customization, etc.) since the people I used to play Tekken with have lives to live, not to mention some resolutions to a storylines that have been established 25 years ago i.e. How and why did Jun and Kazuya conceived Jin. Nobody wants another Tekken game to just leave small bread-crumbs of a story after nearly a decade. It's the same with DOA6. This old mentality of storytelling is got to stop, especially if a future Tekken game is gonna be console-first. Everytime I try to play Tekken 7, I piddle about with gallery and customization and then eject the disc. Whenever I DO end up playing the online mode, it's slideshow with a limited number of opponent and connections are lost so easily.
nice one mate! I do think T7 lacking in UI features and such defo needs to be looked at. And Im glad you werent sucking off Haradas BS too!. nice vid brah
Been playing the game since a month now and grew up with Tekken 3. And I still have no idea what the star in the command list means. So I 100% agree with the first issue.
Those stars are the suggested difficulty, so going by the list, the three star is the highest difficulty combo according to the game itself. But its actually worse than the standard Paul BnB combo that everyone should be doing 😅
@@NaffyFT Ahhh! Sorry, yeah *that* star means "no input" or "neutral" So, if you're on a stick, you push it forward, let go completely so the stick returns to neutral (if you're good, manually return it, it's faster) then down forward, forward+2
I think a few defensive options could charge things drastically. Something like a burst mechanic could be interesting, but that might be too powerful. I was thinking instead of a rage art at low health, your can instead get a sort of combo breaker. But I don't think that's a great idea. Another thought was maybe while you're getting combo'd, you could tech when you're about to bounce of the floor. With proper timing, you bounce to your feet instead. Or maybe a midair recovery when you get launched but it can only be done after enough frames pass. So your opponents combo has to be tighter or they risk dropping it.
Yeah a break at bound or spin, but it's frame perfect or something would be really interesting. Maybe that could mean players are encouraged to use different combo routes to change the rhythm up and mislead the defender on the timing. Perhaps choosing to deal less than max damage, but still get more than if they were too obvious with the breaks. Or rage can be spent to defend or as a super, something like that. I kept it down to earth in the vid, cos I think that would be more popular - but it's true that the ability to break combos based on timed inputs adds another layer of decision making for both players (which means more engagement, which generally means more fun)
Agree absolutely with everything except character roster. King and AK should be more different than they are now. For example make Ak less of a grappler and more of the show-off striker. Or merge 2 characters in 1. Same goes for Jin and DVJ, it is only natural for them to be merged in 1 character. Next, roger, kuma and other joke characters (except mokujin) should not be in the game if it will have limited roster. While mentioning joke characters, all of Tekken cast are joke characters in terms of personality so that should be changed or at least addressed in some sort of way. Also I demand that some characters receive rework like Paul for example. His main style is Judo if I am not mistaken, but the only judo about him are some of his grabs and the outfit. 25 characters is not enough at all. I think we need more characters representing different fighting styles or different archetypes. For example, let’s take hwo. His fighting style is taekwondo and his game plan is being rushdown 50/50. Now make another female tkd character that will have different moveset (for the most part) and different game plan. Right now, T7 has over 50ty characters but I don’t feel that even half of them are distinct enough and almost none of them are connecting to me on any level. Of all of the cast I play lars (because I like his power ranger animations), I like watching Lidia, Lili and Zafina purely for coomer purposes and I like Miguel but I can’t play him. It all comes down as personal preference and everything, but I think Tekken should treat its characters a little bit more serious (unless it’s intentionally joke character like mokujin). And the last but not the least, make Tekken feel consistent in terms of hitboxes ffs
Yeah I think jin and djin def should be fused in some manner. djin is just literally a superpowered mishima, no one enjoys facing him. And it would be cool to see 'more' seperartion between king and ak, beyond AK just being a gimped version of king. But yeah, the roster is pretty malleable, for me. I mainly chose 25-30 just because the devs clearly struggle to balance anything beyond that, and often a limited roster forces people to take more creative leaps so as to make each character shine. Whereas with 50 we have the aforementioned AK and king issue. I don't mind the humour too much, tho it'd be cool to see a serious storyline (however, given T7's attempt at "serious" I don't believe they're capable of doing it well), but it has always had many elements of humour in its plot lines, even mishimas had joke endings in some games. But yeah, some of my suggestions might not be a perfect fix, but a starting point for the devs to iterate or improve on. Cos, despite my tone in the video, there's obvs no perfect answer to any one issue (Alex def should stay tho, I miss that bastard). So without being able to test these ideas proper, we can only point out the flaws and make suggestions.
Why would merging Jin and Djin make sense? By story, Jin despises his devil gene and wants to get rid of it so it's only natural if they are separated. By gameplay wise, it's not the same case like Kazuya where his devil form is essentially just a buffed up version of him, Djin and Jin differ from each other significantly in terms of gameplay. I don't see any possibility of them merging together
@@oreowithurea5018 the idea of having two different characters depending via rage is pretty interesting, we see what this is kind of like with yoshi and his sword/no sword stance. While jin and djin differ somewhat, their wavu options are extremely similar. Narratively, it doesn't matter cos the story makes little sense anyway. Take it as djin taking over due to rage, not jin willingly utilising it.
@@oreowithurea5018 doesn’t matter. It is less sacrifice if lore-wise it doesn’t make sense. As for them being different, they are kinda, not completely. You can make Jin turn into dvj any time and basically have 2 characters at once. Or straight up merge them into something in between. If you want to bring up story again, T7 ending makes it look like jin is starting to control his dvj (same also happened in Tekken BR movie) so it only makes more sense
@@RedLineFGC Wavedash mixups aren't so similar for both imo, Devil Jin has a wallsplating hellsweep, and somewhat weaker mids to compensate for that, also he doesn't have a homing move out of wavedash. Jin's wavedash mixup overall feels weaker to me as he has slower mixups but has got a nice ch laucnhing homing move out of it and a mid albeit slow natural launcher. I agree, ewhf and Ewgf is quite similar nowadays. Overall, imo, Jin needs to utilise more moves in his arsenal to get going but Djin can do that with fewer but powerful moves. It's like Kazuya. Their poking game is similar, though Jin suffers from stubby range while Djin from longer whiff recovery. Devil Jin's oki is stronger, but Jin has more quicker ch launchers, Jin is also more stance oriented character with evasive properties while Djin suffers from lack of evasion, u4 doesn't count here. But in the end, Devil Jin is more Mishima oriented, Jin just happens to have a wavedash like Armor King or Bob. They have their weaknesses and strength. I can't look at Jin and Devil Jin and say, well their gameplay is pretty similar, I can do that With Kazuya tho. You're telling me to actively switch between both of them mid match, like that's going to be a hot mess if you look at it realistically. With Kazuya transformation, I just get a boost in mixups and offense so it's nice to work with that. Merging them together sounds cool but isn't practically imo And I don't get the arguement that story doesn't make any sense anymore? Like you should decide whether you want the story to improve or not?
You got my vote bro there are a lot of ppl that lack empathy I don't care if u don't view it as important that's still someone's feelings just cuz I can't grasp what your disappointed about doesn't mean I can invalidate ur feelings cuz as we know if the shoe was on the other foot we'd be pissing ourselves unfortunately I never experienced tk1-3 my 1st tekken was 4 the black sheep of the franchise who am I to tell someone who's been there since the beginning to "get over it that's the way it is" it's very insensitive. Plus I'm losing my faith and a lot of franchises they pioneered and changed so much of we've come to know that it's criminal to see them slowly die resident evil, street fighter, tekken,silent hill, fnaf, these shaped the gaming community u can't really say to much without it all tieing back to the original blueprint I rather u bow out gracefully then try to "keep up with the Jones" and kill what made it special in the 1st place u have more than enough money stop destroying yourself like that
@@JoeCrush_ Yo thank you! Hearing this from pros such as yourself means a lot - I was worried some of the design ideas would have some huge gaps I missed or something (tho despite the length, it's still not as in depth as the subject really could've been haha)
Honestly the criticism for the lack of content should go for most new fighting games today. Tired of having to pay full price for 3 modes and 10 characters to wait and pay for even more content/character DLC to hit in the next 2-5 months of the damn time. I get that characters, visuals and online are harder to do now but as a consumer It just new makes fighting games so bare and soulless when content could easily appeal to the casual gamer without having to jump into online in fear
Going back to older titles is just harrowing. Strive and SFV feel like they have echoes of the glory days - Strive even having a (imperfect) long tutorial for loads of mechanics+match up advice. But sometimes you wanna play the game in a way that doesn't involve the egos like online comp does and games have kind of lost that understanding, it seems.
A great video. I love Tekken 7. But it is far from perfect, I think it's about time Tekken has a tutorial mission to help pull off PEWGF. If Guilty Gear STRIVE can teach it's players Kara Canceles, then I think tekkan can take that step. As someone who loves the game and has confidence in the next release, your suggestions would be great to see in the future game👍 however. I feel there will always be more than 25 characters. When it comes to Tekken, I feel 35 is the ideal number to settle on. But I'm always gonna love lot's of characters.
I think the large roster, specifically in 7, feels unnecessary since, cos of the broke movement, we only really see range 0 versions of every character. Perhaps if the movement/tracking was consistent then maybe the roster bloat wouldn't bother me. Same as if the UI delays were removed, I'd probably be less harsh on RA for causing so many delays. And 100%, regarding the tutorial comment. Strive's tutorial has its issues, mostly regarding its UI/UX, but at least it ATTEMPTS to teach you how to play. It gives players a chance. Tekken doesn't explain the ways you can stand up after a knockdown. Just mind boggling, honestly.
@@RedLineFGC I feel That those Issues with T7's learning comes from Legacy. The mentality of, Throw em in the pool and see if they pick up on how to swim type of thing. We've done that for 20+ years now, so a wee bit extra help is needed I feel. I'm happy they added punish practice, but a lot more was needed. Maybe the team should hold off a main line Tekken, after T7's success, I'd say it's a good time to try TTT3 of even Tekken X SF. Ft Geese. I LOVE GEESE!
Visually it's Eva (I had to redraw it by hand, frame by frame to fit 1080p wide-screen lol) But the audio is from Gurren Lagann (cos Eva's "eyecatch" was silent)
@@Shagv1 That's great to hear! I'm hoping to branch into more varied design content or non FGC content while dipping my toes back in every so often moving forward. But since I sunk all my time into Tekken, I dunno if I could review another game this deeply haha
Some radical ideas that might actually be really good. In-match framedata(optionally). Yes, add framedata in ranked, so that you can learn block punishment, when to take your turn etc while playing the game, not just in practice mode. No, your opponent will not look at framedata all the time, we're playing a high-paced fighting game, after all. But after a couple of matches against someone you'll be able to learn at least some framedata. No lab, no writing down moves, especially like it used to be without in-game replay system and framedata, where you had to have rbnorway open 24/7 playing tekken and be ready to record and learn move's framedata some Bob/Miguel does on block/hit etc. Elo rating system. Abolish stupid "Fujin, Brawler, Ruler" system. No customization pls. Add skins and sell them. Make them look and soung amazing, you buy the skin you need, you don't spend money on something you don't need. Customization is looking stupid and only makes this game even more ridiculous than it already is. Remove legacy moves that serve no purpose. Remove 100 strings that are dumb and require specific string knowledge. Some strings are good, but most are useless. Tekken 3 had less than 20 characters. Make it a reality again. On release, I mean. More 2D mechanics. Get us chargers, not just dp inputs and input buffering. It's fun, it translates skill between games, makes playerbase bigger. Throws rework. Fuck looking at opponents arms. You might think that you practiced for two weeks learning arms for nothing. It is true, your skill is worthless and shouldn't be required. It's not fun labbing hand/arm position and getting used to breaking it, based on which arm is closer to you. It's a stupid system. Just make them high+no tracking with very small break window , like Guilty Gear Strive, Granblue. Highs and mids should be more obvious(indicators for highs and mids in ranked to learn strings without "closing ranked, writing down moves, going to practice mode, labbing strings"?). Come on, Josie d+3+4, you look like a low. Forced FT2/BO3 in ranked. You want to play against long sets against a specific character? Add your opponent and propose playing long sets or go player matches or search for someone playing that character. Ranked is supposed to be tournament-like. FT2/Best of 3 is the best system to simulate tournaments.
I could take frame data in lobbies, but I dunno about ranked. At that point it becomes too much of a crutch and kind of undermines competition. I also don't mind the massive movelist, but animations and hitboxes need to be tighter, the big movelist - as useless as some moves may be - allow people to express themselves better. But a smaller roster would offset the bloat of the game quite well, I think. I do really like the idea of 2D mechanics, and I wonder why tekken never used the charge input. Perhaps it would be too difficult to use in a game where people should be moving all over the place. But I'm sure it could be made to work somehow. A big aspect of Tekken is the "simple inputs" tho, but the addition of some extra input patterns would be great.
@@RedLineFGC Okay, imagine a gathering, a party of friends, playing Tekken. Do they need to write down every move and look it up in rbnorway all the time or open practice mode? Even in ranked mode, I don't get how it undermines competition, most of the time you don't have the time to look at frame data and then punish accordingly. So it's just a better learning/remembering mechanic, possibly it can remove a loop of "play a game - go to lab - play again" because (I got like 2.5k hours in T7, 80% of that is lab most ppl aren't like that) people don't like to lab even 40% of their time playing a videogame. Maybe 10% is acceptable, and not every day you play the game(for most people and I want Tekken and FG to be as popular as League or Fortnite). About movelists. My problem with them is that most of that you don't see in tournaments, you don't see at higher level. Then you start playing ranked and first you need to go through a lot of gimmicks/cheese just to get to more limited version of movelists because these strings suck? Take d341 Anna or Nina d343 for example? These two characters use different moves online and in tournaments. They're still rushdown, sure, but high level Anna/Nina is more measured and limited(in terms of strings) even when relentlessly offensive. About charge mechanics. Some characters, Anna or Julia for example can just run into you and sit. What if there was a character who could do that, but holding db for some time would give you some new moves? It's already in the game as a timing mixup, there's no problem adding it this way. Or characters who backdash a lot can just hold b after one of their backdashes and start charging, then continue moving, then backdash into b hold charge? I only see opportunities with charge, if properly implemented.
@@RedLineFGC When you play League of legends, you press tab and look at your gold, cs, most high elo players have game overlays with data overview about their teammates and enemies. League has websites that use Riot games api for champion winrates % for every division(iron, bronze,silver,gold,plat,diamond etc). People looked at Leroy winrate at high ranks in Tekken? What about beginner-intermediate, where people know how to learn your own character, but struggle to lab or defend properly a lot of the time? What about winrates every balance patch for every character? What about damage overview after the game(like MK11 does it?). What about in-game spectator system, you open character charts with mastery and watch the best Master Raven(for example) with frame data on and inputs? Without Twitch? League had it. From your ingame shitty(because it's old) league of legends launcher. What about servers instead of P2P network? If you had experience with League/Dota/CounterStrike/PUBG any other game that doesn't have P2P and uses servers you know the difference in online experience. Btw, Brawlhalla uses servers(crossplay too), look their player numbers. Japan is so traditional and so far behind, it's stunning.
@@RedLineFGC "ranked play isn't for studying". That's an opinion, I have to disagree. Every match is a learning experience, if you aim to become a better player. Why do you just play other games and learn by playing(90% of the play time) and Tekken can't have it? I merely point out that gameplay loop of "play ranked, lose games because you don't know cheese/gimmicks, go to replays, write down moves, lab them then go play again" is not the best gaming experience. Not the best experience we can have. First time you see -11 move with Miguel are you sure you will be able to punish it with 2,1 into savage even if you're a Miguel main and you see -11 on the screen for a couple of frames? Maybe if you're very good at Tekken, intermediate player won't be able to do it while maining Miguel. But(!) he'll remember better. Current experience is separated/segregated. Learning and playing are separate. It's not a good practice, imo.
I slightly disagree with your roster Idea a bit since I Really like Lidia and Leroy a lot to where I don't want them to skip 8, Claudio needs a revamp, something to make him unique from the cast as opposed to starburst and hopkicks all day lol. Bruce and Alex returning is based tho .
I could see some changes to the roster, tbf. Thing about Tekken's roster is primarily the *bloat*, I'd love that roster in the vid, but I think I could still easily enjoy a bunch of those chars switching for the removed bunch
ParryGodBushnell, there are some absolutely gold clips out there. Since the nerfs he's stuck around my rank, but still didn't understand how blocking works, or oki. Probs an OK dude, they were funny clips tbh. It was purely an example of absolutely god awful balancing, rather than the streamer themselves 🙏
@@RedLineFGC understandable and yeah he looks like a cool dude. Cuz I was hollering when he found out that you can duck electrics🤣. But ik that's a result from the balancing sadly.
Also you never really realize what something needs till someone says it and you are like wow that would be an amazing addition to the experience. Love this video 10/10
Last comment I promise 😂😂. However I really enjoy 2D characters and think that tekken could have implemented them in a more balanced fashion. It was super fun to me learning Geese Howard and I’d hate if they never tried a 2D style again just because the first attempt was an unbalanced one.
I actually think 2D could have been better with the old movement system, maybe they might have been too weak(?) but at least they'd be way less frustrating to deal with.
people complain about bloat but a better core system could easily solve this. imagine having a special effect on non natural strings with a high/low extension. i actually want more moves and more things my character can do. but the core system right now makes the gameplay way to volatile. not knowing 1 string extension means you eat a 50%hp combo but knowing them means the enemy eats a 50%hp combo. its dirty.
Yeah a lot of these issues simply link back to the ass movement. Perhaps fixing that core issue would resolve 90% of my problems but I wanted to be thorough 👀
Great video. I was down with most of it except the roster bloat though I understand it is a issue for competitive balance and power creep in the long run since Namdai aren't satisfied if new characters are filling Top 8s at EVO at least once. As a T3 enjoyer who only really returned for TTT2 on Wii U (Tekken Ball plus almost every character but Gon), I want to be able to come back to games with characters and non-competitive content. I prefer this term since it isn't strictly single player like Tekken Force (which could probably be co-op with some work), just outside the narrow box that tournaments encourage. Maybe it would take some added balancing since Smash (which sometimes patches just to keep items and stuff in line) and Tekken keep the same general attributes across modes, but Tekken Ball could be competitive. They should have been ahead of Rocket League by over a decade with non-traditional sports with wavedashing.
Yeah the bloat is mostly a gimme for the devs, since Nimblo can't seem to resolve the balance/tracking problems. But I have a hunch it's not so much the roster, but the issue is rooted in the poor movement that ultimately makes it difficult to protect yourself, since they straight up outlined every issue people like me had with the game in the S3(4?) announcement I showed (full vid in the desc) but then ended up doing the exact opposite come overhaul time. I get the feeling they tried to fix it, but the game was less fun with lower damage cos it just prolonged the underlying issue each match. That and fixing movement would absolutely neuter Akuma, and other range 0 characters like Paul. Ironically, despite me preferring a smaller roster, I would actually like a bigger movelist (assuming that didn't mean every char has no gaps, tool-wise), so maybe that would offset the lack of chars since you could express yourself uniquely with the chars available.
@@RedLineFGC If movement's the problem, it can't have been that big a deal between Tekken 1 to Tag 2 if Paul has been functional in every game. I don't doubt it probably has some notable implications for Akuma and Geese (besides Eliza in Revolution, 2Ds are new), but it isn't like they don't have some 3D hitboxes to work with. Fireballs can probably have some faster start up (not end lag or travel time) to make up for it if not think about the stun or damage. If the characters end up being weaker but the game ends up being more fun, cool. Maybe a bit of tracking wouldn't hurt too. A compressed roster might be okay in some cases (Jin could probably work in his multiple styles - T3 and T4 and Devil into each other), but besides the part of me that thinks "isn't that calling them functions!?"... They would probably end up with the same range of archetypes or adding in ones as DLC that they won't balance because they need to sell the new hotness.
@@thelastgogeta Ah I kind of mispoke there, what I meant was: if they fixed the damage they would just have Tekken 7, with everyone being rushdown and no consistent way to defend against it, but... longer. But (I think) fixing Tekken 7's movement would just completely upend the balance, especially with 2Ds. (I'm not too savvy on balancing of older games, I heard Paul's good but not broken. But in T7 Paul NEEDs to be at range 0 to be a threat, else he's useless. And his only long range poke is qcf3 at -12 iirc. So a movement buff might drop him a whole tier or two lol) It's tricky to say for sure, I think you're right that characters being offered as DLC meant they had an incentive to make them broken. A lot of these problems interweave and it's probably some combinations of adjustments to each area, like movement, roster, monetisation, etc. rather than just "less characters makes game good" But I was tryna be a lil spicy in parts lol (Also fully agree on the extra modes ideas, too!)
@@WeeabooDojo thank you! I basically redrew it frame by frame for a 1080p wide-screen, original only fits a 480p despite upscaling, which sounds impressive but it was only, like 16 drawings lol.
This video makes me feel better for refunding the game upon realizing how limited the single-player offerings are and how a whole 3rd of the roster is DLC lmao
Row Row Fight The Algorithm
Watch the unwatchable, play the unplayable!
@@RedLineFGC Don’t believe in yourself! Believe in me! Believe in the Jonster who believes in the netcode!
I'm so happy I saw this comment because I couldn't for the life of me remember what the intermission was
@@RedLineFGC Rate the unratable, comment the uncommentable
algorithm fought, battle won. I got this off of my tekken yt feed. Subbed, liked, and dinged, see ya
You know this dude is spitting facts because Murray blocked him on twitter. He blocked me too when I was frustrated of everyone reading the patch notes and I couldnt find them on any official BamCo or TK7 channels/websites. Apparently, Michael Murray were posting them on his personal twitter acc page by page coz, apparently, he was translating them alone, lol. He was late comparing official Japan patch notes like 2-3 days behind! So, I twitted on my repost of the patch notes something like that: "Yo, isnt this game sold like 7-8 millions copies? Isnt you a big company, Bamco? Why eng patch is so late and they are posted in personal acc of the worker? Every indie devs post patch notes before patch lol" and he blocked me. True story.
1. poor security
2. no different game modes(Survival, time attack...etc).
3. there is no freedom of customization(No decal function).
4. There is no combo trial mode(For example, the system of sfex, sf4, sf5...)
5. Lack of practice mode as in item 4.
Yeah, it's a really "threadbare" game.
After that story mode it's just unranked, ranked, or bowling... Lol
Street Fighter x Tekken was able to animate hellsweep to make it look less stupid, so it's a bit unfortunate that it looks so strange in Tekken proper.
Superb edits and overall a well written video! I’m foaming on my mouth right now just imagining if they actually put these training features and quality of life updates you mentioned into TEKKEN 8 (though I don’t really get how one can download a pro player’s data and apply it to an AI to replicate in an offline situation)
Also, good doggo.
Thank you, bro! I appreciate you checking it out!
My VO is still kind of awkward. I did bank on the memes and edits carrying me a bit 😂
The shadow mode was introduced in KI (and, I believe, the latest SamSho)
I linked to a vid explaining it further in the description! Check it out, it's crazy!
Obvs you'll need the internet to download the data, but once you're playing, you're playing with a downloaded file locally, not against a server in another part of the world.
oh whats sup Pang
WTF man, they SOLD the frame data for Tekken 7??? AFTER the game had been out for some time???!!!
I too wish there was an electric light orchestra rating system
You didn't know either, you just saw the other comment 😒
damn they took a lot of your suggestions
Good dog!
One issue I've had with Tekken ever since 3, and exacerbated since I started trying to actually learn how to play Tekken in 6, is the movelist and mechanics bloat. So many characters have tens of moves that are completely useless, with 10-strings sticking out the most. There are also janky half-baked mechanics left since forever, like Kazuya's mist step, whatever stun requires you to hold forward to be able to block, "chickening", get-up spring cross chops launching on block if you jab, etc.
Additionally, since Tekken is absolutely shit at explaining what the fuck is going on, if you don't have a buddy who knows, or a community to ask, you're just screwed, which is terrible design.
Yep, you NEED to find the info elsewhere, cos the game ain't telling you shit.
Tho I don't mind niche mechanics or lots of moves cos they give you lots of ways to express yourself (and catch people off guard in some cases), but I expect the game to tell me how to utilise them at least!
I just want to go back to the good old days of Tekken 6, no 2d characters, fair balancing, bound, gameplay that doesn't rely on combo damage, and of course, Bruce and old Lars.
I thought Lars and Bob (moreso Bob) were busted back then 👀
@@RedLineFGC that's at least better than what we got for Tekken 7
Yeah, no, you were either a solo-play enjoyer or something of the like, because Tekken 6 was not more balanced than this.
@@lucastonoli3256 but it wasn't tedious bullshit either
@@jaxxy2583 Yes it was lol
"Exceedingly okay Tekken player" should be a tagline.
I should have it tattood, tbf
7:36 did you know tekken 6 already does that? It's one of reasons why I love the game so much!
20:20 SFV came out in a barebones state, and a lot of things were only fixed ages later, after many characters were added to the game
Guilty Gear Strive is the most barebones entry in the entire series, understandably because of Covid, yet no efforts have been made to patch that, despite we already being at the fourth DLC character with Baiken.
I would cite Melty Blood Type Lumina as part of the bunch, but Aoko and DAN were given for free, so it's hard to criticize
From what I hear, SFV has kind of turned around a bit since Ono left.
This issue is kind of endemic to gaming itself, but I think with FGs the lack of QoL is quite glaring since we frequently spend hundreds of hours with our games.
There’s KOFXV.
Fart sounds started playing in my Uber ride so thanks for that, otherwise pretty cool videdo
I timed it specifically for that (by spamming it throughout lol)
Great video! Spitting some real home truths. A few other issues I have with the game are:
- Too many (often pointless) balance updates. It's already enough to keep track of 50 something characters and learn matchups, but on top of that the game has changed the properties of hundreds of moves along the way, to the point I feel like I have to relearn the entire game every few months to keep up. The belief that "with balance updates they can keep improving the game as time goes on" has proven to be nothing but a pipedream. We've had several moves get changed in a specific way only to get changed back to their original state later on. I guess because the change was pointless in the first place?
- High/mid/low being difficult to figure out at times. So many mids look like highs and vice versa, and this is exacerbated by moves having their properties changed without changing the animation. Lars' df21, Claudio's 43, Gigas' ff42 etc... Ganryu's f2 hits super low but is actually a mid for some reason. And don't get me started on Geese's qcb2. The move literally punches through the heads of Kuma and Gigas when they crouch, but hits high!
- Everyone is too buffed. So many of the cast can just do it all, and feel too powerful. Take season 1 Dragunov, who was considered the best in the game. Now compare that with the current Dragunov, who is waaaay stronger of a character, but isn't even in contention for high tier! Have a character with a certain weakness to overcome? Not any more! We'll give Marduk, a character with ridiculous damage already, an amazing 12 frame punisher that leads to throw setups. Why not? And I say that as someone who plays Marduk. He did not need to be buffed!
Yeah, there's sometimes good uses for misleading hitboxes, but tekken does seem to cross the line into bullshit territory.
Also, exactly on the power front. I'm personally fine with high damage, but when toolkits have 0 gaps, it becomes boring to play, and frustrating to play against.
Like rough example cos I'm not super experienced in it yet, but Potemkin in Strive has *wild* damage, but his movement sucks and can't easily open people up with things like cross ups.
Or in Tekken, Paul is VERY strong, but at least compared to current S tiers I don't feel like he's so bad. Simply because of his lack of long range pokes, meaning he cracks easily against fast, safe characters like Alisa etc.
If Paul was a DLC character, he'd have an orbital, demo would work on nh, and his hopkick would power crush.
@@RedLineFGC Yep, I get where you're coming from. Characters can have great strengths but it works better when supplemented by certain weaknesses.
I brought up Marduk specifically because when he released, I considered that his high damage and amazing throw game were contrasted by his weak punishment, with his 13 and 15 frame punishers having bad range meaning he'd often have to rely on jabs, and his WS punishment is perhaps the worst in the game. And that was fine, it was a weakness for him to deal with to compensate, and I could get behind that. But in a patch they suddenly gave him uf12, a high damage 12 frame punisher that sets up the opponent for his throw game or close range rushdown tools. It just feels so unnecessary, especially for a character that was already very strong.
Also, lots of characters have been given super easy and universal wall carry tools, instead of requiring you to switch up your combos for optimal damage if approaching a wall.
@@Slick_Tails Hard agree, what's worse is they outlined that exact thing as a problem in that overhaul announcement (full timestamped vid in desc) they wanted to fix. Then just did the opposite 😂
I think, with a tiny bit of generalization, this video could be any [modern fighting game] - A [Number] Year Critique. It's crazy how many features are in other fighting games that should really be mandatory for the largest fighting game franchises.
In terms of the story why does it feel like all of the characters don't matter except the Mishima's? Where the lore is currently it seems like all the fighters don't really have a need to exist. And the king of the Iron fist stuff just felt forced into the plot because that's the status quo with tekken.
I mean two major corporations just basically started world war 3 and Heihachi for some stupid reason thought it was good idea to host a martial arts tournament? The writing in this series has definitely taken a turn for the worse.
Yeah is the iron fist tournament even happening in this one? It legit does seem pointless.
@@RedLineFGC It does but they drop it somewhere at the middle portion of the story
great video ! and you have a good dog:)
Honestly someone could write a thesis on all the things that make Tekken 7 absolute trash imo. A terrible low point for the franchise. Terrible content. Like this trash makes Soul Calibur 5 look "content rich". One of the worst story modes I've ever witnessed....even by fighting game standards. Pretty much NO SP content, or evolution of content. No Ghost Mode, Tekken Force, worse costumes and customizations. Worse music, and stages. (Ironically the best tracks and stages were recycled from, or remixes from previous, MUCH better Tekken games).
DATED AF graphics, that gives Unfinished Fighter V a run for its money. This is strange for the franchise that has looked absolutely stellar since Tekken 3. Animations recycled since TTT1 on the PS2, almost non existent facial animations. Keep in mind every tekken character in T5 & T6 had an average of 3 different intro and win animations. You could even control which ones you wanted manually. Some characters even had four.
Too many stupid comeback mechanics.. Tekken has HYPER ARMOUR now? Lazy AF rage drives, and rage arts? Super moves? Like half the mechanics are simply ripped off from Street Fighter, and are poorly implemented. Legacy Fighters locked behind paywalls and season passes, while trash like Gigas....GIGAS, Katarina and Lucky Chloe are pushed. Kuma and Pana have DIFFERENT CHARACTER SLOTS... you can't make this up LMAO. Josie and Fahkumram are basically repackaged Bruce sold to you as new characters. Jose's rage art is literally a recycled animation from SC5's Xiba. There are so many thing wrong with this game, beneath the flashy, bloated comeback mechanics for newbies; that I can't list all of them in one comment.
But Harada san's more than happy to sell us characters that should have been in the box in the first place. Frame data, and gimmicky guest characters....Tekken is my favourite fighting game, but honestly T7's the first Tekken I gladly uninstalled, and sold almost immediately. I'm playing TTT2, and T6 instead.... No way in hell I'm supporting SCAMCO SCAMDAI, if this is where the franchise is headed.
On par bro, well said
I hope Namco objectively listen to this one!!
Good dog! Good vid!
Thank you, that means a lot coming from you, bro!
Hope the memes got a laugh 👀
good dog :)
fantastic vid btw, summed up everything I want out of a sequel and more! really good ideas and examples, def got a new sub!
Michael Murray is in charge of Tekken 8. It's going to be trash.
I remain hopeful that 7 was more of a test to gauge interest than a test to see how much bs they can get away with.
My personal gripes:
*T7 newcomers:* a majority of them are fucking boring looks and gameplay wise, hella easy to use and just not memorable. Is anyone really going to miss Gigas or Lucky Chloe? The only ones that I liked personally was Lidia. Yeah she needs nerfs but stance mix ups, some execution including instant running 1 and multiple blue sparks moves was definitely different than what we were getting from the rest of the T7 newcomers. There was some ambition there, I really felt it.
*Pay to win DLC* : I thought we've moved past the OP easy to use characters from T6 such as Bob and Lars...now we're borderline making incentives to buy OP, braindead characters like Leroy and Fahk? I'm a strong believer if you're bad, you SHOULD stay bad unless you decide to improve yourself. We don't need to make game breaking characters for low self esteem neckbeards on Reddit to carry them out of the green and yellow ranks.
*best of 3* : like you said T7 lets too many people favor one and dones. And I would love to torture all these 5k-10k win cherry picking wierdos who always run away from rematches in a quick set. It will do you good if you learn from losses, try to adapt, instead of running away....like a bitch *cough,cough*
*nerfed movement* : side step is too inconsistent and being able to to avoid BS pressure would help people get rid of this stigma that YOU HAVE TO LAB EVERY SINGLE MOVE. Hwoarangs and Williams sisters would die online if you can consistently side step their BS pressure. Side note: no more homing hellsweeps or launching lows(fuck Devil Jin and Anna).
*No more 2d/weeb characters* : i don't want to fight jumping shotos with projectiles, braindead Noctis and Kunimitsu players or look at Alisa anymore.
Agree with just about everything, I don't mind gigas, but yeah you can see a difference between his design and Lidia's despite her balance issue.
I don't mind launching lows so much, but they should be avoidable or at least not UNSEEABLE lol
Jeremy Corbyn in (NH)S tier is fucking gold. You had my curiosity, but after that you have my attention.
Sneaking lefty messages into my videos to subliminally deradicalise gamers 👀
I think the issue with Harada not accepting criticism is just a Bandai Namco thing. Just look at Dark Souls' RCE exploit. It literally took the entire internet and actual application of the exploit in a more benign setting on a streamer to actually get Bandai Namco to do anything at all.
Oh it's def a company wide culture thing. But there isn't merch saying "don't ask miyazaki for shit"
11:54 I like the self-writing humour here (:
Legit this community writes it's own jokes.
as someone who can't stand the overuse of the red tint filter in T7 on multiple stages, that ending was deeply appreciated & Remove Rage Arts👍
Yo I can't play the new dooms cos of that dumbass red tint when you get hit.
I dunno what it is, but I feel you.
Someone recommended this to me and I remembered your Paul edited from last time. I subscribed because of this video! 😊 👍
You make VERY good points! especially at 6:45, 8:45 and at 15:22
It is pretty inconvenient for people who make content/videos for tekken and have replays but need to watch the entire thing to record it. It would be absolutely amazing if there were a download option in game. Without it, it adds up and takes time. Same for the load screens. It takes about 40 seconds (and more from watching intros) and that's space taken up or can be clipped. It's still frustrating to not have the ability to skip intros or Get Ready for the Next Battle on replays.
I also agree with what you said about the statistics. That's a new take on it, I haven't heard of that before but its GENIUS. They should show your weaknesses instead of the 3 stats and show which matchup you struggle in.
Just everything in this video --I'm so glad you pointed them out! I think most people would agree (if not they should lol) that all the problems with tekken 7 should be fixed instead of getting more dlc characters, because there are other games like you said that are excelling and are more fun than it's current state. It's unfortunate because it's "Tekken" it's a fun game, but sometimes it's just so bad and so outdated xD
It needs to keep up with the modern times and Bamco NEEDS to listen to their community. Not expect us to have fun behind a pay wall and that pay wall isn't even fun. (lol it's so sad Murray blocked you in the video)
We will just find some other game that treat us better, which most people have by now. Tekken 7 is good, but not great.
Exactly! The base game of Tekken is so damn fun, but it's a weird mountain of tiny issues that just build up and build up.
QoL that is undoubtedly important but easily forgotten. They're like the bass player in the band that is game design.
Thanks very much for the support dude! I appreciate it!
@@RedLineFGC Yes definitely! Tekken is special, I think it stands out from the other fighting games not because it's popular but because it's just Tekken-like lol. It does have it's pros, but if it were to be better, Tekken 8 better deliver all those ideas :3
The best tool would be to copying the inputs of opponent from the replay mode, and pasting it into practice mode. I am Anna main, I don't want to practice EWGF just to practice launch punishing that shit.
Yeah, exactly.
Like you can have the bot replay moves from the movelist, but string options and specific set ups (like frame perfect moves) is a no go.
honestly this just makes me want to try out virtua fighter
Do it 😈
(it's very different from Tekken but stick with it, and once it clicks, the flow state feels unreal because your options are *much* more consistent than T7)
One thing I'll suggest that i wasn't covered is that in addition to reducing the roster size, make the move lists for the individual characters shorter. There's so many strings that are worthless when you understand how to beat them and the game is bloated with knowledge checks. At the very least remove the stupid ass ten strings
I think I like the longer movelist (imagine how crap Lei or Yoshi would be with a shortened movelist - half their appeal is its literally like playing 5 characters at once lol)
esp with the smaller roster (as long as it doesn't meant characters are just given every tool again or just a bunch of strings), I think a large movelist would offset people's worry about longevity.
Cos you would, in theory, be able to play differently than another player playing your char esp since the meta won't be just run up and force 5050 cos they can't avoid it, your other moves might suddenly have some use.
But yeah 10 strings seems pointless and just tacked on by obligation at this point.
I mean look at the animation styles between Kaz 10hit and Negan 10hit.
Kaz has kept the same goofy looking 10hit since T2, but Megan's at least looks like how a human might move lol
“What makes a game good.”
*shows Virtua Fighter 3tb*
I love this guy
Those that know *know* 👀
I agree with this. I would also like more single player content. Since arcade mode was mid and treasure is only fun for so long. Wish I knew more about the characters then the chapter fights and what was in the story mode. Tekken force and tekken bowl would be great returns like you mentioned as well.
Please Bamco, hire this guy! :)
While I agree on most things in the video
.
Throws should revert to old ways, but giving most characters only a 1 or 2 is just soooo easy to break for us who have learned to break on reaction. Even giving Grapplers an extra 1+2 that is not misleading is not enough, it will be broken as easy as 1 or 2 for us that are used to this. I don't have a perfect break ratio, some times I press 1+2 unevenly on my stick but other wise I break most throws consistently even when I have my hands some where else or are in the middle of inputting a move, and I've meet people who are even better, basically break every throw, every time, no matter what. Grapplers need their ambiguous animations to even have a chance against good players. This or some thing else need to be done about throws. I personally think throws are mostly useless in the upper ranks. I would almost prefer throws to be a true guess and if you guess wrong you end up in a minor mixup situation instead.
.
The rooster of only 25 would be great but if you removed Julia as well, you have only 4 females left. That's not gonna fly in my book, even though I'm not a waifu player.
Yeah, the grab thing is a difficult one to fix.
I think lowering the break window, and making 1 or 2 breaking only L or R throws would increase the threat a lot.
But I've never played the original games to this extent so I couldn't personally claim it would definitely fix my issues with it.
The misleading animations aren't really the main issue to me, since I don't break giant swing by sight, but by read, but mostly that so many non grappler chars have too many options already, so a full grab game on top is just silly.
And that grapplers were then given the misleading breaks because it's the only way up from a full grab game, right?
Perhaps some kind of option for grapplers to still have an advantage if their throws are broken, such as being +, or being able to chain into another grab attempt would alleviate that.
So everyone has faster breaks, but only grapplers have the three way, and when you break their throws they're still in a good position, rather than reset to neutral.
Nah personally I didn't like the old throw break system bc I remember people used to spam throws when they were pressured, exploiting the fact that it was nearly unbreakable in that situation since you didn't have as much time to process it visually. And in high ranks, I like the fact that even though they are not as useful, they can be used to reset the neutral game by providing a momentary break. Also, the 1+2 still switches side for most characters to avoid walls, that is something I would like to see implemented to all characters
Jokes on me, despite the fact that throws were made easier to break, I can not break them on reaction. Even the generic throws 🤤😢
@@RedLineFGC I kinda have a mixed feeling on the grab thing issue. I used to play the older tekken versions especially the ones where the break window was so small. Other players would abuse the grab move. I used to play arcades and a lot of players do this. It was annoying to the point that the whole round, an enemy of mine just throw jabs and grabs when near. It was ok if it wasn't happening a lot of the time, but most arcade players i've faced do this, and its annoying because you can't break the grabs unless you guess right.
What a great video, very entertaining and informative! If the Tekken devs implemented half of these suggested features it would already make the game so much better and fun to learn..
Thank you, bro!
I was playing with this in my head and was like, God I'd fucking love playing this game.
Funnily enough, VF4E on the PS2 really does have the a lot of these features, including match recording, sans netplay lol
Good vid, about combos and damage i think strive made a great job. You got burst and big damage works if you dont wanna watch cutscene of your death for 10+ secs
Yeah exactly, the damage is wild in strive, but the matches and such move so fast that you're back in and pressing buttons relatively quickly.
I think 2-3 combos to death suits tekken well, but currently it's more like 1 combo into mixup at the wall and you're dead lol
It's a fine line, but currently you don't get many chances to "make decisions" beyond "how am I gonna get up after this 10min cutscene" lol
18:02 LOOK GARY THERE I AM!!! (I'm the Kaz player in that vid). Overall great video, and I'm glad youtube recommended me your channel again. Your hitbox guide helped a lot a long time ago, and most of your thoughts here reflect my own. I would love for this game to have just basic features that almost every fighting game has. This game might beat Tekken 3 as the best selling of all-time, so they can't even use the low budget excuse anymore.
Eyyyy! Clean combo, too!
Yeah, it's kind of a shame they didn't try a bit harder with this one, and I can't help but get confused when people defend a lack of content.
I have a feeling, despite my meming, Murray is tryna get this stuff added. But only time will tell, I think.
Good dog.
You make a lot of good points, so I don't have too much to say about them: you're right, you're concise, and you clearly understand the game better than I do. The only thing I can nitpick is that you said matches should be exportable as video files - it's actually much easier for both developers and players if these are exported as replay files (match1.tk7). These can be shared more easily, and having a simple data file is much easier to for a game to interact with than a video file.
GGXXAC+R and Them's Fightin' Herds actually both do this, and the ability to share information is much more nuanced in that game: literally just go to the game's directory, copy the files to a hosting site, and send your buddies a link. Then again, this feature would require Japanese game developers to understand how computers work, which is dubious at best.
Cheater blacklists saved LOCALLY. FRIGGIN' LOL.
Combos are tricky to gauge in games without bursts or combo breaker mechanics, which is why I think games that don't have them should seriously think about how they want combos to feel, look, and be interacted with by the player. If there's the genuine chance a player will be sitting in a combo for more than 5 seconds on a regular basis (ignoring meter, resources, stage position, etc.), then that's about the line I think is acceptable. More than that, and it tends towards VS game combos, of which Skullgirls has by far the worst.
What I think the game needs to succeed artistically (it's already done so financially) is to stop making the characters so boring and lifeless. I play mostly airdashers/anime games, specifically Guilty Gear, so obviously I'm biased in favour of insane charactesr - but every character in Tekken feels indistinct, which is odd for a game with robots, dinosaurs, martial artists, secret agents, assassins, and bears that practice karate. Every character has the same """walk animation""" (except Negan, for some reason), every character has the same crouch animation, there are no idle animations, and so on. Characters don't grunt when they get hit or punched through walls, and they rarely do cool, unique character stuff except as combo filler or gimmicks.
That's the biggest thing. I can pick up Guilty Gear and see the characters giving off some emotion in the game IMMEDIATELY, and that only grows deeper with unique win quotes and intro animations. Tekken 7 in particular looks and feels like plastic dolls are moving around a generic UE4 landscape, which is probably accurate to how the game was developed.
I'll have a look at some of your other videos. Keep up the good work in the meantime.
Yeah, the video output was mainly a selfish request as an editor 👀
Mainly cos when the game updates currently, it deletes all recorded games you have saved (which maxes at 30...)
But yeah they'd need to actually learn how computers work which is a pipe dream lol.
5 second combos would be much more bearable! When you add the current combo durations on top of the other UI UX issues, it starts to feel like the game is just wasting your time.
Also I agree, Tekken chars have some charm to them despite being pretty plain, but there are so many missed opportunities for characterisation!
And thank you! I only have one more essay,about trying alternative FGs, but I'm working on more 🙏
This is a sick VF video, 11/10
The thing about propaganda, is it needs to 'trickle' into the people's minds slowly.
Show them a little bit here and there, and soon we'll have a weird qanon-like cult of VF fanatics, you watch!
Heres my engagement
Based engagement enjoyer
OMG YOU USED THE BRICH CLIP OMG
I agree with some things like the whole U.I. section needs some stealing from a lot of games.
Aside from that, I believe that you should be able to uninstall the story mode for space reasons cause those voice lines and FMV's take up quite a bit.
However I'd like to say that in terms of practice mode, Frame data should be a given for free and idk why they made us pay for it at first, but the extra stuff like stating your weakness and having a tutorial about said weaknesses to me sorta ruins the fun of the game and fighting games in general. Replays and frame data should be enough and what Tekken 7 provides in terms of the replays on when it STOPS when you should punish something or when you should duck, that's actually a lot of information.
Also, the character roster is fine the way it is imo, cause if we're being honest, if you only have the essentials in Tekken, that makes the game insanely boring and does not make Tekken, Tekken to me, but maybe that's just me.
6:08 ive been talking about that for soo long i swear i would love this and that the game gets some data from your matches and sees how you play and stuff if you parry alot defensive aggresive and suggests a character for you and also 6:54
Aside from the back to basics story mode approach and the proposed roster, I agree with everything else you said.
I'll take that dub.
Admittedly, I wouldn't mind the story method they used now, if they were more effective at telling stories this way, and included the whole cast.
But since they seem to struggle I think the safest bet is to go back. Esp since it ties into encouraging players to experiment with more of the cast, and thus learn more of the game.
@@RedLineFGC Unfortunately it has less to do with the method and more to do with them not knowing how to do stories at all. It's been this way since T5. Until they hire writers again and get over T4's reception, nothing's ever gonna change.
Another absolute banger Good Job (Remove Julia from Tekken 8 and I will cause nothing but problems)
That's fair, I would like to make an update, Julia is based and fun to play against, actually
If they deleted Kuni and Fahk, I’d be fine with Lidia and Leroy making it to Tekken 8.
Yeah, I was saying elsewhere, I'm actually pretty fluid on the roster itself, even the amount.
But, even though I think a smaller roster would mitigate some of the issues we've seen, it's possible that providing proper training tools and a more robust movement/tracking system would probably fix 90% of my problems with T7 (barring QoL features)
But figure it was safe to come at the problem(s) from every conceivable angle.
there's probably a reason why the doa director's 5 least favorite games is tekken 1-5
I just want to say that you earned a subscriber for the sick quotes about our current society...
...oh yeah and the very good and fun to watch analysis of Tekken 7.( a series I’ve been thinking of getting into for a while. Maybe tekken 3?)
The explanations definitely made the wait for the next quote worth it.
Virtua fighter is dead. Tekken is alive.
Harada conclusion?
ABSOLUTELY NO TUTORIALS
It was the players knowing how to play that made it shit!
Great video! Now to just get that algorithm on your side 🤔🤔🤔
Good dog!
I wish! Also, nice! I've been subbed to you on my "main" acct for a minute! (read: account I can't abandon cos there are 200 videos in my watch later list)
> shorter combos for more engagement but same damage
Daisuke's vision wins again
He's a god damn visionary
I wish Tekken 7 was released in July 14, 2012 and Tekken 8 was released in June 12, 2015.
Great video, good work
19:06
Hold up! The man has a point right here 🤔🤔🤔🤔
Edit: after watching the video to the end, I can say I do not disagree with anything you said.
My dream is for a VF character to be in T8 and a Tekken character to be in VF6
That'd honestly be awesome, Akira is so cool.
But I wonder how well they'd translate given the amount of buttons available.
I'm sure they could do it, but right now I just have to play Paul for that shoulder barge and sick damage.
@@RedLineFGC Haradas favorite VF character is Goh and even joked around with Aoki during Haradas Bar that Goh would be more of a complete character if he developed him.
@@mikeg4490 I thought it was Lau!
But I wonder, cos VF5 def feels like a much tighter game than T7.
So he's probably talking shite lol
@@RedLineFGC haha Harada is a VF stan. Gohs my main too and he definitely would fit in with the Tekken VF. Hell, as linear as he is they should have put him in T7 lol. He also said Yamazaki was considered as the KOF candidate.
@@mikeg4490 Oh, I think I've heard that somewhere.
At this point I've gone kind of sour on T7, and only enjoy lobbies. If they do do guest characters again then I hope they save it for T8
Big mid and high hitting moves should have a different animation after it gets blocked (relative to the animation if the move whiffed) similar to how big low moves do when they're blocked. Will make launch punishment in a game with thousands of moves a bit more intuitive.
Agreed! I think some moves being ambiguous on chars like Lei or Yoshi would be interesting, but there's too many examples of weird moves like this on chars where it doesn't make sense
I just want more offline content (8-stage arcade mode, team battle, survival, VS CPU, better customization, etc.) since the people I used to play Tekken with have lives to live, not to mention some resolutions to a storylines that have been established 25 years ago i.e. How and why did Jun and Kazuya conceived Jin. Nobody wants another Tekken game to just leave small bread-crumbs of a story after nearly a decade. It's the same with DOA6. This old mentality of storytelling is got to stop, especially if a future Tekken game is gonna be console-first.
Everytime I try to play Tekken 7, I piddle about with gallery and customization and then eject the disc. Whenever I DO end up playing the online mode, it's slideshow with a limited number of opponent and connections are lost so easily.
Bruh.. this image at 0:37.. Perfectly describes online Tekken 7.. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great video, but I just thought you might want to know that "Elo" is the name of the dude who came up with the system. It isn't an acronym.
Fr? I thought I heard it said "E. L. O" before lol whoops.
Mustve been talking about the Electric Light Orchestra.
Something something good dog
Almost forgot to comment. Banger video: nice editing, very informative.
nice one mate! I do think T7 lacking in UI features and such defo needs to be looked at. And Im glad you werent sucking off Haradas BS too!. nice vid brah
Can't be dealing with the arse kissing 😤
"What sort of things... make a game good?" *shows vf3tb*
HOLY SHIT!!! 3TB ENJOYER!!!
I miss T6's customization. :(
Been playing the game since a month now and grew up with Tekken 3.
And I still have no idea what the star in the command list means. So I 100% agree with the first issue.
Those stars are the suggested difficulty, so going by the list, the three star is the highest difficulty combo according to the game itself.
But its actually worse than the standard Paul BnB combo that everyone should be doing 😅
@@RedLineFGC Ah I think we talk a out different stars here.
What I mean is
For example: ➡️ ☆ ⬇️ ↘️ P
@@NaffyFT Ahhh! Sorry, yeah *that* star means "no input" or "neutral"
So, if you're on a stick, you push it forward, let go completely so the stick returns to neutral (if you're good, manually return it, it's faster) then down forward, forward+2
@@RedLineFGC Ahh. Well thank you alot for that.
@@NaffyFT No problem! If you're learning Kaz' (or any Mishima's) EWGF, look up mainmanswe's ewgf tutorial, that's probably the most in-depth one on YT
Agree with mostly everything. I am curious though, what would the grab change accomplish? Specifically with King & Armor King's mixup grabs.
I think a few defensive options could charge things drastically. Something like a burst mechanic could be interesting, but that might be too powerful. I was thinking instead of a rage art at low health, your can instead get a sort of combo breaker. But I don't think that's a great idea. Another thought was maybe while you're getting combo'd, you could tech when you're about to bounce of the floor. With proper timing, you bounce to your feet instead. Or maybe a midair recovery when you get launched but it can only be done after enough frames pass. So your opponents combo has to be tighter or they risk dropping it.
Yeah a break at bound or spin, but it's frame perfect or something would be really interesting. Maybe that could mean players are encouraged to use different combo routes to change the rhythm up and mislead the defender on the timing. Perhaps choosing to deal less than max damage, but still get more than if they were too obvious with the breaks.
Or rage can be spent to defend or as a super, something like that.
I kept it down to earth in the vid, cos I think that would be more popular - but it's true that the ability to break combos based on timed inputs adds another layer of decision making for both players (which means more engagement, which generally means more fun)
good doggie
Agree absolutely with everything except character roster. King and AK should be more different than they are now. For example make Ak less of a grappler and more of the show-off striker. Or merge 2 characters in 1. Same goes for Jin and DVJ, it is only natural for them to be merged in 1 character. Next, roger, kuma and other joke characters (except mokujin) should not be in the game if it will have limited roster. While mentioning joke characters, all of Tekken cast are joke characters in terms of personality so that should be changed or at least addressed in some sort of way. Also I demand that some characters receive rework like Paul for example. His main style is Judo if I am not mistaken, but the only judo about him are some of his grabs and the outfit. 25 characters is not enough at all. I think we need more characters representing different fighting styles or different archetypes. For example, let’s take hwo. His fighting style is taekwondo and his game plan is being rushdown 50/50. Now make another female tkd character that will have different moveset (for the most part) and different game plan. Right now, T7 has over 50ty characters but I don’t feel that even half of them are distinct enough and almost none of them are connecting to me on any level. Of all of the cast I play lars (because I like his power ranger animations), I like watching Lidia, Lili and Zafina purely for coomer purposes and I like Miguel but I can’t play him. It all comes down as personal preference and everything, but I think Tekken should treat its characters a little bit more serious (unless it’s intentionally joke character like mokujin). And the last but not the least, make Tekken feel consistent in terms of hitboxes ffs
Yeah I think jin and djin def should be fused in some manner. djin is just literally a superpowered mishima, no one enjoys facing him.
And it would be cool to see 'more' seperartion between king and ak, beyond AK just being a gimped version of king.
But yeah, the roster is pretty malleable, for me. I mainly chose 25-30 just because the devs clearly struggle to balance anything beyond that, and often a limited roster forces people to take more creative leaps so as to make each character shine.
Whereas with 50 we have the aforementioned AK and king issue.
I don't mind the humour too much, tho it'd be cool to see a serious storyline (however, given T7's attempt at "serious" I don't believe they're capable of doing it well), but it has always had many elements of humour in its plot lines, even mishimas had joke endings in some games.
But yeah, some of my suggestions might not be a perfect fix, but a starting point for the devs to iterate or improve on. Cos, despite my tone in the video, there's obvs no perfect answer to any one issue (Alex def should stay tho, I miss that bastard). So without being able to test these ideas proper, we can only point out the flaws and make suggestions.
Why would merging Jin and Djin make sense? By story, Jin despises his devil gene and wants to get rid of it so it's only natural if they are separated. By gameplay wise, it's not the same case like Kazuya where his devil form is essentially just a buffed up version of him, Djin and Jin differ from each other significantly in terms of gameplay. I don't see any possibility of them merging together
@@oreowithurea5018 the idea of having two different characters depending via rage is pretty interesting, we see what this is kind of like with yoshi and his sword/no sword stance.
While jin and djin differ somewhat, their wavu options are extremely similar.
Narratively, it doesn't matter cos the story makes little sense anyway.
Take it as djin taking over due to rage, not jin willingly utilising it.
@@oreowithurea5018 doesn’t matter. It is less sacrifice if lore-wise it doesn’t make sense. As for them being different, they are kinda, not completely. You can make Jin turn into dvj any time and basically have 2 characters at once. Or straight up merge them into something in between. If you want to bring up story again, T7 ending makes it look like jin is starting to control his dvj (same also happened in Tekken BR movie) so it only makes more sense
@@RedLineFGC Wavedash mixups aren't so similar for both imo, Devil Jin has a wallsplating hellsweep, and somewhat weaker mids to compensate for that, also he doesn't have a homing move out of wavedash. Jin's wavedash mixup overall feels weaker to me as he has slower mixups but has got a nice ch laucnhing homing move out of it and a mid albeit slow natural launcher.
I agree, ewhf and Ewgf is quite similar nowadays.
Overall, imo, Jin needs to utilise more moves in his arsenal to get going but Djin can do that with fewer but powerful moves. It's like Kazuya. Their poking game is similar, though Jin suffers from stubby range while Djin from longer whiff recovery. Devil Jin's oki is stronger, but Jin has more quicker ch launchers, Jin is also more stance oriented character with evasive properties while Djin suffers from lack of evasion, u4 doesn't count here. But in the end, Devil Jin is more Mishima oriented, Jin just happens to have a wavedash like Armor King or Bob. They have their weaknesses and strength. I can't look at Jin and Devil Jin and say, well their gameplay is pretty similar, I can do that With Kazuya tho. You're telling me to actively switch between both of them mid match, like that's going to be a hot mess if you look at it realistically. With Kazuya transformation, I just get a boost in mixups and offense so it's nice to work with that. Merging them together sounds cool but isn't practically imo
And I don't get the arguement that story doesn't make any sense anymore? Like you should decide whether you want the story to improve or not?
Masterful
Good dog, great video!
I agree with everything you said.
They should add a chimp as a playable character.
I have legit been *begging* for a chimp/ape mod for Paul/Duk for... Years now lol
There needs to be a combo breaker bar like mk and I think rage arts should be only used once
1:04 Neon Genesis Evangelion
I see you 👀
You got my vote bro there are a lot of ppl that lack empathy I don't care if u don't view it as important that's still someone's feelings just cuz I can't grasp what your disappointed about doesn't mean I can invalidate ur feelings cuz as we know if the shoe was on the other foot we'd be pissing ourselves unfortunately I never experienced tk1-3 my 1st tekken was 4 the black sheep of the franchise who am I to tell someone who's been there since the beginning to
"get over it that's the way it is" it's very insensitive. Plus I'm losing my faith and a lot of franchises they pioneered and changed so much of we've come to know that it's criminal to see them slowly die
resident evil, street fighter, tekken,silent hill, fnaf, these shaped the gaming community u can't really say to much without it all tieing back to the original blueprint I rather u bow out gracefully then try to
"keep up with the Jones" and kill what made it special in the 1st place u have more than enough money stop destroying yourself like that
Well done
9:02 hey that’s me 🙂
Yo! I honestly didn't notice! The (rightful) malding at the netcode had me distracted lol
@@RedLineFGC yeah you choose a banger one for that, nice vid btw bro, quality stuff
@@JoeCrush_ Yo thank you! Hearing this from pros such as yourself means a lot - I was worried some of the design ideas would have some huge gaps I missed or something (tho despite the length, it's still not as in depth as the subject really could've been haha)
Honestly the criticism for the lack of content should go for most new fighting games today. Tired of having to pay full price for 3 modes and 10 characters to wait and pay for even more content/character DLC to hit in the next 2-5 months of the damn time. I get that characters, visuals and online are harder to do now but as a consumer It just new makes fighting games so bare and soulless when content could easily appeal to the casual gamer without having to jump into online in fear
Going back to older titles is just harrowing. Strive and SFV feel like they have echoes of the glory days - Strive even having a (imperfect) long tutorial for loads of mechanics+match up advice.
But sometimes you wanna play the game in a way that doesn't involve the egos like online comp does and games have kind of lost that understanding, it seems.
A great video. I love Tekken 7.
But it is far from perfect, I think it's about time Tekken has a tutorial mission to help pull off PEWGF. If Guilty Gear STRIVE can teach it's players Kara Canceles, then I think tekkan can take that step. As someone who loves the game and has confidence in the next release, your suggestions would be great to see in the future game👍 however. I feel there will always be more than 25 characters. When it comes to Tekken, I feel 35 is the ideal number to settle on. But I'm always gonna love lot's of characters.
I think the large roster, specifically in 7, feels unnecessary since, cos of the broke movement, we only really see range 0 versions of every character.
Perhaps if the movement/tracking was consistent then maybe the roster bloat wouldn't bother me.
Same as if the UI delays were removed, I'd probably be less harsh on RA for causing so many delays.
And 100%, regarding the tutorial comment. Strive's tutorial has its issues, mostly regarding its UI/UX, but at least it ATTEMPTS to teach you how to play. It gives players a chance. Tekken doesn't explain the ways you can stand up after a knockdown. Just mind boggling, honestly.
@@RedLineFGC I feel That those Issues with T7's learning comes from Legacy. The mentality of, Throw em in the pool and see if they pick up on how to swim type of thing. We've done that for 20+ years now, so a wee bit extra help is needed I feel. I'm happy they added punish practice, but a lot more was needed. Maybe the team should hold off a main line Tekken, after T7's success, I'd say it's a good time to try TTT3 of even Tekken X SF. Ft Geese. I LOVE GEESE!
@@MaoriGamerDood I think TTT3 would be really fun!
What is your transition, I feel like I've seen it somewhere but can't think of it
Visually it's Eva (I had to redraw it by hand, frame by frame to fit 1080p wide-screen lol)
But the audio is from Gurren Lagann (cos Eva's "eyecatch" was silent)
@@RedLineFGC ayyy thank you, and great video, enjoyed it even as someone with little investment in the tekken games
@@Shagv1 That's great to hear! I'm hoping to branch into more varied design content or non FGC content while dipping my toes back in every so often moving forward.
But since I sunk all my time into Tekken, I dunno if I could review another game this deeply haha
P R E A CH
Nice
I do not have anything to contribute, except that the algorithm is a curse.
Good dog! ❤
Some radical ideas that might actually be really good.
In-match framedata(optionally). Yes, add framedata in ranked, so that you can learn block punishment, when to take your turn etc while playing the game, not just in practice mode.
No, your opponent will not look at framedata all the time, we're playing a high-paced fighting game, after all. But after a couple of matches against someone you'll be able to learn at least some framedata. No lab, no writing down moves, especially like it used to be without in-game replay system and framedata, where you had to have rbnorway open 24/7 playing tekken and be ready to record and learn move's framedata some Bob/Miguel does on block/hit etc.
Elo rating system. Abolish stupid "Fujin, Brawler, Ruler" system.
No customization pls. Add skins and sell them. Make them look and soung amazing, you buy the skin you need, you don't spend money on something you don't need. Customization is looking stupid and only makes this game even more ridiculous than it already is.
Remove legacy moves that serve no purpose. Remove 100 strings that are dumb and require specific string knowledge. Some strings are good, but most are useless.
Tekken 3 had less than 20 characters. Make it a reality again. On release, I mean.
More 2D mechanics. Get us chargers, not just dp inputs and input buffering. It's fun, it translates skill between games, makes playerbase bigger.
Throws rework. Fuck looking at opponents arms. You might think that you practiced for two weeks learning arms for nothing. It is true, your skill is worthless and shouldn't be required. It's not fun labbing hand/arm position and getting used to breaking it, based on which arm is closer to you. It's a stupid system.
Just make them high+no tracking with very small break window , like Guilty Gear Strive, Granblue.
Highs and mids should be more obvious(indicators for highs and mids in ranked to learn strings without "closing ranked, writing down moves, going to practice mode, labbing strings"?). Come on, Josie d+3+4, you look like a low.
Forced FT2/BO3 in ranked. You want to play against long sets against a specific character? Add your opponent and propose playing long sets or go player matches or search for someone playing that character. Ranked is supposed to be tournament-like. FT2/Best of 3 is the best system to simulate tournaments.
I could take frame data in lobbies, but I dunno about ranked. At that point it becomes too much of a crutch and kind of undermines competition.
I also don't mind the massive movelist, but animations and hitboxes need to be tighter, the big movelist - as useless as some moves may be - allow people to express themselves better.
But a smaller roster would offset the bloat of the game quite well, I think.
I do really like the idea of 2D mechanics, and I wonder why tekken never used the charge input.
Perhaps it would be too difficult to use in a game where people should be moving all over the place. But I'm sure it could be made to work somehow.
A big aspect of Tekken is the "simple inputs" tho, but the addition of some extra input patterns would be great.
@@RedLineFGC Okay, imagine a gathering, a party of friends, playing Tekken. Do they need to write down every move and look it up in rbnorway all the time or open practice mode? Even in ranked mode, I don't get how it undermines competition, most of the time you don't have the time to look at frame data and then punish accordingly. So it's just a better learning/remembering mechanic, possibly it can remove a loop of "play a game - go to lab - play again" because (I got like 2.5k hours in T7, 80% of that is lab most ppl aren't like that) people don't like to lab even 40% of their time playing a videogame. Maybe 10% is acceptable, and not every day you play the game(for most people and I want Tekken and FG to be as popular as League or Fortnite).
About movelists. My problem with them is that most of that you don't see in tournaments, you don't see at higher level. Then you start playing ranked and first you need to go through a lot of gimmicks/cheese just to get to more limited version of movelists because these strings suck? Take d341 Anna or Nina d343 for example? These two characters use different moves online and in tournaments. They're still rushdown, sure, but high level Anna/Nina is more measured and limited(in terms of strings) even when relentlessly offensive.
About charge mechanics. Some characters, Anna or Julia for example can just run into you and sit. What if there was a character who could do that, but holding db for some time would give you some new moves? It's already in the game as a timing mixup, there's no problem adding it this way. Or characters who backdash a lot can just hold b after one of their backdashes and start charging, then continue moving, then backdash into b hold charge? I only see opportunities with charge, if properly implemented.
@@Samaelish Ranked play isn't for studying. You should be playing ranked to ascertain your level.
Lobbies or offline with buddies then yeah, why not?
@@RedLineFGC When you play League of legends, you press tab and look at your gold, cs, most high elo players have game overlays with data overview about their teammates and enemies. League has websites that use Riot games api for champion winrates % for every division(iron, bronze,silver,gold,plat,diamond etc). People looked at Leroy winrate at high ranks in Tekken? What about beginner-intermediate, where people know how to learn your own character, but struggle to lab or defend properly a lot of the time? What about winrates every balance patch for every character? What about damage overview after the game(like MK11 does it?). What about in-game spectator system, you open character charts with mastery and watch the best Master Raven(for example) with frame data on and inputs? Without Twitch? League had it. From your ingame shitty(because it's old) league of legends launcher.
What about servers instead of P2P network? If you had experience with League/Dota/CounterStrike/PUBG any other game that doesn't have P2P and uses servers you know the difference in online experience. Btw, Brawlhalla uses servers(crossplay too), look their player numbers. Japan is so traditional and so far behind, it's stunning.
@@RedLineFGC "ranked play isn't for studying". That's an opinion, I have to disagree. Every match is a learning experience, if you aim to become a better player. Why do you just play other games and learn by playing(90% of the play time) and Tekken can't have it?
I merely point out that gameplay loop of "play ranked, lose games because you don't know cheese/gimmicks, go to replays, write down moves, lab them then go play again" is not the best gaming experience. Not the best experience we can have.
First time you see -11 move with Miguel are you sure you will be able to punish it with 2,1 into savage even if you're a Miguel main and you see -11 on the screen for a couple of frames? Maybe if you're very good at Tekken, intermediate player won't be able to do it while maining Miguel. But(!) he'll remember better. Current experience is separated/segregated. Learning and playing are separate. It's not a good practice, imo.
I slightly disagree with your roster Idea a bit since I Really like Lidia and Leroy a lot to where I don't want them to skip 8, Claudio needs a revamp, something to make him unique from the cast as opposed to starburst and hopkicks all day lol. Bruce and Alex returning is based tho .
I could see some changes to the roster, tbf.
Thing about Tekken's roster is primarily the *bloat*, I'd love that roster in the vid, but I think I could still easily enjoy a bunch of those chars switching for the removed bunch
good dog
Good dog
Nice video, also good dog.
Wait who's that streamers name at 21:31😭.
ParryGodBushnell, there are some absolutely gold clips out there.
Since the nerfs he's stuck around my rank, but still didn't understand how blocking works, or oki.
Probs an OK dude, they were funny clips tbh. It was purely an example of absolutely god awful balancing, rather than the streamer themselves 🙏
@@RedLineFGC understandable and yeah he looks like a cool dude. Cuz I was hollering when he found out that you can duck electrics🤣. But ik that's a result from the balancing sadly.
Please someone let this man help with tekken 8. If tekken 8 had half of what you ask for it would be a beautiful time to be a tekken fan boy 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Also you never really realize what something needs till someone says it and you are like wow that would be an amazing addition to the experience. Love this video 10/10
Last comment I promise 😂😂. However I really enjoy 2D characters and think that tekken could have implemented them in a more balanced fashion. It was super fun to me learning Geese Howard and I’d hate if they never tried a 2D style again just because the first attempt was an unbalanced one.
I actually think 2D could have been better with the old movement system, maybe they might have been too weak(?) but at least they'd be way less frustrating to deal with.
people complain about bloat
but a better core system could easily solve this. imagine having a special effect on non natural strings with a high/low extension.
i actually want more moves and more things my character can do. but the core system right now makes the gameplay way to volatile.
not knowing 1 string extension means you eat a 50%hp combo but knowing them means the enemy eats a 50%hp combo.
its dirty.
Yeah a lot of these issues simply link back to the ass movement.
Perhaps fixing that core issue would resolve 90% of my problems but I wanted to be thorough 👀
Let's gooooooo
Great video. I was down with most of it except the roster bloat though I understand it is a issue for competitive balance and power creep in the long run since Namdai aren't satisfied if new characters are filling Top 8s at EVO at least once.
As a T3 enjoyer who only really returned for TTT2 on Wii U (Tekken Ball plus almost every character but Gon), I want to be able to come back to games with characters and non-competitive content. I prefer this term since it isn't strictly single player like Tekken Force (which could probably be co-op with some work), just outside the narrow box that tournaments encourage.
Maybe it would take some added balancing since Smash (which sometimes patches just to keep items and stuff in line) and Tekken keep the same general attributes across modes, but Tekken Ball could be competitive. They should have been ahead of Rocket League by over a decade with non-traditional sports with wavedashing.
Yeah the bloat is mostly a gimme for the devs, since Nimblo can't seem to resolve the balance/tracking problems.
But I have a hunch it's not so much the roster, but the issue is rooted in the poor movement that ultimately makes it difficult to protect yourself, since they straight up outlined every issue people like me had with the game in the S3(4?) announcement I showed (full vid in the desc) but then ended up doing the exact opposite come overhaul time.
I get the feeling they tried to fix it, but the game was less fun with lower damage cos it just prolonged the underlying issue each match.
That and fixing movement would absolutely neuter Akuma, and other range 0 characters like Paul.
Ironically, despite me preferring a smaller roster, I would actually like a bigger movelist (assuming that didn't mean every char has no gaps, tool-wise), so maybe that would offset the lack of chars since you could express yourself uniquely with the chars available.
@@RedLineFGC If movement's the problem, it can't have been that big a deal between Tekken 1 to Tag 2 if Paul has been functional in every game. I don't doubt it probably has some notable implications for Akuma and Geese (besides Eliza in Revolution, 2Ds are new), but it isn't like they don't have some 3D hitboxes to work with. Fireballs can probably have some faster start up (not end lag or travel time) to make up for it if not think about the stun or damage.
If the characters end up being weaker but the game ends up being more fun, cool. Maybe a bit of tracking wouldn't hurt too.
A compressed roster might be okay in some cases (Jin could probably work in his multiple styles - T3 and T4 and Devil into each other), but besides the part of me that thinks "isn't that calling them functions!?"... They would probably end up with the same range of archetypes or adding in ones as DLC that they won't balance because they need to sell the new hotness.
@@thelastgogeta Ah I kind of mispoke there, what I meant was: if they fixed the damage they would just have Tekken 7, with everyone being rushdown and no consistent way to defend against it, but... longer.
But (I think) fixing Tekken 7's movement would just completely upend the balance, especially with 2Ds.
(I'm not too savvy on balancing of older games, I heard Paul's good but not broken. But in T7 Paul NEEDs to be at range 0 to be a threat, else he's useless. And his only long range poke is qcf3 at -12 iirc. So a movement buff might drop him a whole tier or two lol)
It's tricky to say for sure, I think you're right that characters being offered as DLC meant they had an incentive to make them broken. A lot of these problems interweave and it's probably some combinations of adjustments to each area, like movement, roster, monetisation, etc. rather than just "less characters makes game good"
But I was tryna be a lil spicy in parts lol
(Also fully agree on the extra modes ideas, too!)
Tekken these hammerpunches amirite? ;)
Are you doing a cowboy bebop type transition? If so I love that too 11/10
Nooooo it’s neon genesis!!!!!! That is so awesome
Yeah an "anime eyecatch" (apparently) but more evangelion than bebop
@@RedLineFGC it’s really well done and I think it looks awesome man!
@@WeeabooDojo thank you! I basically redrew it frame by frame for a 1080p wide-screen, original only fits a 480p despite upscaling, which sounds impressive but it was only, like 16 drawings lol.
This video makes me feel better for refunding the game upon realizing how limited the single-player offerings are and how a whole 3rd of the roster is DLC lmao
100% agree.