Love those old D.O.D. films from the late 40’s - 70’s, which were made at Lookout Mountain AFS in Hollywood. They have a certain look and sound to them that holds a lot of nostalgia and were simple and easy to understand. Today’s training films seem hard to follow and overly confusing, which isn’t beneficial to new generations of recruits. Keep it simple!
Yes, they seem like parodies when you here this type of narration. Very similar to MOD and public information films in the UK. They're far better IMO. Understated, and they presume you can concentrate for more than five seconds without a change in visuals or camera angle.
My Dad flew Hellcats during WWII and Panthers in the early '50s. Stick and rudder days. He did a round the world cruise on the Tarawa in 1954, it was an unusual cruise in that they lost no aircraft on it.
My grandpa flew Bell helicopters in Korea, ran out of gas once on final approach to a carrier, and it was so close he scraped the skids off on the stern of the ship. Another foot or two lower and you wouldn't be reading this now.
@@paulc7486 Grandpa had the option of ditching in the sea, but then the two wounded Marines strapped down on the outside would've drowned. He weighed the odds and morality of definitely losing two Marines to probably losing three Marines (including himself), rolled the dice, and got lucky.
I came from Air Force Parents. Dad was in SAC before the merge, and Mom delayed her retirement from Hickam Logistics due to the 1st Gulf War. (She got a lot of overtime as a civilian worker). I have to say that US Naval Aviation is badass. Props to our Navy and Marine folk! As always, thank you for your continuing service!
The old saying I heard (back in my days in VT10) was that Naval Aviators (tactical) can do everything an Air Force pilot can - plus they land on that little flight deck....
In my days with VF-102 (before Ed'ward' was there) at a bar in Scotland after flying the Mach Loop, I was told our friends in the Air Force "Flare to land, squat to pee".
Everytime you post these carrier landings videos it reminds me back in the early 70’s of watching my dad’s 8mm film of his Hawkeye landing on the Connie on station off the coast of Vietnam. Looked like fun as a kid but thinking about it now it must of been a pretty violent stop.
I had to laugh at the training film which perpetuated the myth that you make a carrier approach in a crab since the carrier is constantly moving to the pilot's right. Back in the days of iron men and wooden decks when I was flying the F-8 Crusader ( a particularly difficult airplane to land on a carrier), the ship's navigator in consultation with the Air Boss was able to put the wind right down the angle nearly all the time if there was a bit of natural wind for him to work with. Consequently, we lined up with the center-line and flew directly into the relative wind (coming right down the angled deck) without any crab just like every carrier pass then and now. Airplanes fly relative to the wind and if that wind is lined up with the runway, no crab is required and that is exactly the same on a stationary runway as it is on an angled deck. Of course, if there is a cross wind, you must fly final in a crab to stay on center-line and that is the case with a crosswind relative to a conventional runway or in the rare case of no natural wind at sea when the navigator has no choice other than to put the wind is down the axial deck.
Ever played DCS? Are those old jets as difficult to trap in real life as their sim counterparts parts? The Tomcat for example compared to the Hornet is night and day. Actually it’s not even comparable. Fly by wire, HMQS, ILS, ACLS, auto throttles. But aside from all the bells and whistles, fly by wire is the biggest difference I noticed between gen 3 and 4 jets. Would like you take. Thanks.
I haven't flow anything with a jet engine but .... You're saying you don't have to make any allowance for the fact your 'runway' is itself moving left to right? Would I be right in thinking you're best lined up into wind and you have a small touch of aeliron to compensate for the 'its all moving left to right' but that hint of stick is so 'second nature' its almost below conscious level?
@@babboon5764I haven't flown anything that wasn't a simulator but... No aircraft on this planet gets to fly relative to what it's landing on. The wings and the rest of the air frame are carried on the body of air that is quite likely moving at sea. It's basic trig to take the wind speed vector, and break that into two components that gives you a heading for the boat at a given speed where the lateral component relative to the body of air becomes zero. My frame of reference there comes more from designing simulated guidance and flight control systems, where steering the boat to neutralize crab is simple if you have enough wind. That doesn't account for gusts, and most importantly doesn't stop the deck from moving up and down. As far as not noticing the slight crosswind adjustment, most of the planes landing on the carrier in the last 40 years have a HUD that's going to make that movement blatantly obvious. I can't say whether pilots begin to automatically disregard the markers on their HUD to account for crosswind using their gut, but it sounds like a dangerous recipe. Hopefully I've said at least one thing wrong enough, a real naval aviator will come set the record straight.
@@babboon5764regarding the HUD, what I'm saying is just looking forward you can see where your nose is pointed, and there's a flight path marker that shows you exactly where the plane is going to end up. If your aircraft and your runway are both moving left at the same speed, you can align the flight path marker to the centerline of the runway and with no change in course it will stay aligned. If the wind is also moving left at the same speed, the water line or boresight or what have you shows you the nose is horizontally aligned with the flight path marker, there is no subconscious trim for crosswind going on.
In full disclosure, I’m not a pilot but a surface line officer. In 1963 the Navy installed the SPN10 system on the Midway. This was an automated landing system using a precision radar beam locked onto the nose wheel. There were approximately 50 successful traps with Paxriver aircraft. The system was installed on our F4 squadron but to my knowledge no traps were accomplished. Word was the pilots said if their hands weren’t on the stick then they would be on ejection handles
I was a radar ET aboard the USS Forrestal in 82. Our Automated Carrier Landing System (ACLS) was the SPN-42. Never worked on it myself, though I did supervise the people that did part of the time. The way it was explained to me, as the pilot approached, the radar would get a lock on the aircraft, taking control of it at 5 miles out. That would put the plane on the glide slope properly positioned. Then, at about 1 mile out, control was returned to the pilot, who actually put the plane on deck. I was further told that the radar could, in theory at least, also land the plane, but we weren't certified to that level. Also, one of the two F4s we lost that cruise was due to it hitting the ramp during a night recovery. Since they used the ACLS during the night recoveries, we had investigators in our shop going over maintenance records, interviewing the techs, etc, for weeks afterward. They ultimately ruled it pilot error. Nobody survived that crash. I saw the immediate aftermath (radar shop was in the island), burning pieces of wreckage scattered across the entire recovery area, fantail to island.
The SPN10 was full auto. During initial trials it was determined that the radar beam was moving on the aircraft skin thus no good reference point. Solution was a cone reflector just above the nose wheel. Problem solved.
Spent time, when I was not in the mushroom locker. On the fan tail or on the pointy end under the bridge watching aircraft. Between port and starboard watches. When it was our turn at plane guard. Sometimes on the fan tail a flying fish would land on the helo deck. The 1st Helos on the Crommellin was HSL 20 & 21 WestPac 1985. The 3rd & 4th of the SH60Bs. HSL 41 had fun times in Earnest Will Those were a much better ride than a Huey. Or a S-3. Sorry,,, I got in the habit of not making long tapes for radio.
If I remember correctly, Mode 1A was fully automatic. All aircraft could use the ACLS (Mode 1, not 1A) for the data, displayed needles, etc. once it was installed on the carrier AND integrated into the aircraft display systems, but only certified aircraft could go full AUTO where the CV would control the aircraft flight controls all the way to touchdown. The PLM in this video seems to be pilot controlled, with control surfaces being manipulated by the landing system mode in the aircraft, controlled by the a/c flight computer, not the CV.
The Spn10 was the first Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) used on carriers. This system was replaced in the early 70's by the SPN42 which did do fully automatic landings used by pilots in the fleet. In 1984 the newest version of ACLS called SPN46 was installed on the JFK CV67 which provided greater reliability and used by fleet pilots. The SPN46 has gone through numerous upgrades over the years and was supposed to be replaced by a system called JPALS a more GPS based system starting in 2014. I have worked on three systems, and I'm retired now but understand that system will be upgraded to incorporate "magic carpet" into the ACLS Mode I(auto approach) commands.
PLM notwithstanding, anyone that can land an airplane at 130/140 knots on a few hundred feet of moving steel at night in the middle of the an ocean is one he** of a pilot. They truly are the best of the best!
A relative was a wild weasel pilot that flew in North Vietnam to have the same fire so they could be targeted. He said when he would fly towards the sun to try to get away from the Sam's that he was monitored for heart rate, and his heart rate didn't go up as much trying to get away from the missiles as it did when he tried to land on the ship
As some in the navy and the interim have insisted. To some things, there is only one right way to do it. Adding or subtracting a step will absolutely result in failure.
I remember a time when there were two flying F-35As on the planet and no Cs. I was in the control room for many of those early test flights. There was that time when AF-2 needed to catch a wire with our tiny Air Force hook. That was pretty exciting before the fact, but our test pilot made it look easy, and there was not much to talk about after the fact. Then there was that time we were asked to engage PLM for a landing. We Air Force types were having a hard time figuring out why this thing was needed, but were assured that our Navy bothers and sisters thought it was pretty cool. Our Edwards AFB "deck" is 300' by 15,000'. Thanks, Ward, for connecting the dots.
@@jamesburns2232 the sim instructors will fail various components at various times, some significant but even if at 400 ft You don't get a GREEN GREEN callout you go around. We were moving at one football field per second, so things happen fast.
A friend of mine was one of the leads on Magic Carpet development for Boeing. I had a fascinating discussion with him last summer when we visited. I have come across a Magic Carpet brief delivered by Pax River test team. And Magic Carpet is how drones get aboard the ship too. thanks for the video!
"There is nothing more practical than a good theory!" - Gustav Robert Kirchhoff (19th century German physicist). You should always be prepared for a PLM failure!
I attended a speech at the High School alma mater of a flying Admiral. At Fairborn High School, very near to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio. Naturally, very many Fliers, mos'ly USAF Fliers, attended. At an Officer's Club reception later that evening, the consensus was... Navy Fliers are "a cut above" any Other Fighter Driver. 🙂 Rick Bonner Pennsyltuck
Ward, It might be worth a quickie at some point about why ILS cannot meaningfully be "a thing" in carrier aviation for us civilian folk out here who keep hearing about "autoland" (which isn't as "auto" as many think) and wonder why the Navy doesn't do it. (I get it, but that's because I understand how ILS works…and why that's not compatible with mission requirements.) If you already did that then a link would be useful.
@@bobharrison7693 Not that I'm immediately aware of. That said, I haven't done a full breadth search of the family tree yet. Given how long my branch of the family has been in North America all kinds of things are possible. My grandfather served on the Oriskany, which it appears Larry may have served on 20 years later… (There aren't many of us Northup folk, so based on the assignment & rank it is a safe guess.)
Back in my business travel days, sometimes I'd see the pilot with squadron stickers on his flight bag. I knew I was in good hands. In the Navy, I was the pilots best friend. AE
I'm thinking of your novels, and the character of Creepy, and his methods. This makes me laugh, because that would probably be me in an alternate universe where I'm an LSO.
The hoops we jump through to make the aviators think they are in command of the airplane, ironically at the same time as every tool becomes more of a crutch.
Lockeed had "Direct Lift Control" on the L-1011. Biased the spoilers a small amount up on final. First few degrees of column movement gave more or less spoiler and no pitch change.
Any guy that has completed carrier landings has my eternal admiration! Hard enough in my uncle's day when the Fairy Swordfish was standard in the British Fleet Air Arm - his group of 24 trainees lost two aircraft and a learner while still on a land base practise field marked out as a carrier deck complete with island. Double, triple difficult in fast, heavy jets! To me that featured approach looked far from Positive Attitude till very, very close in - yer fantastic touch down. Hats off!
I like that you were patient in letting the video run so we can absorb it all and are making this a series vs. trying to cram too much in a short video. Can't wait to see the next ep!
As in commercial flying auto throttles blunt your reptile brains instinctive pitch and power response. This muscle memory is lost on newer pilots and I would imagine if the auto throttles become inop on the F18 at night many pilots will wish that they had these old school skills.
It's really great to see a major change implemented in Aviation that both reduces workload AND increases safety. The thing I always hated about working in Aviation was running into the old "establishment" or "organizational" response: "we've always done it this way, we're not gonna change it now..." Because no matter how well researched and studied a situation is, changes in technology might very well merit a change in S.O.P.
The training video reminded me of a time in my service as a Navy SAR helo pilot. We were on a detachment to the USS Kitty Hawk in the early 90’s as she was coming out of the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard for sea trials. While we were usually droning around in circles in Starboard Delta, in this case they’d asked us to fly the meatball glideslope for several sorties to help calibrate the meatball. During the day it wasn’t a problem to respond to differing requests from the air boss to fly the H-3 in the groove, but it became quite problematic one horizonless night when they asked us to go into a high hover while on glideslope at about 400’ a couple hundred yards aft of the ship! Sorry boss. No go.
DLC does not mean you don’t have to adjust power; DLC does not mean you can fix glide slope errors merely with stick, it just gives quicker initial fixes via stick but you’re still going to need a power adjustment albeit a smaller adjustment as you will need an adjusted neutral power point to your new glide path. & he misspoke when he said old aircraft stick for glidepath, the video had it right, power for glidepath, stick (trim) for AOA (or speed in lieu of). If you DLC off a high, you’ll still need to add a touch of power as you’ll now need to fly flatter than you were a moment ago; what you saved doing was having to pull power, counter correct with sufficient counter to break the sinking momentum, then counter-counter correct to set the power for the new path. One DLC and one power adjustment both more immediately executed versus three power corrections spread over a bit more time. Note, in the old Hornet, we could get away with “poor man’s DLC” by wagging the wings while certain old aircraft like the F-14 and S-3 had true DLC (read spoilers like gliders have) which is a bit different than F/A-18 Rhino, EA-18, and F-35 which suffer an added concern of drag changes with wing shaping (when you reduce the lift of the wing, you also reduce induced drag which means you probably need a momentary parasitic add). These newer aircraft have vulnerabilities in this system as seen with the F-35C in the SCS. Search Medium for that topic, you’ll find a good read.
Ward, we love your work here. Please interview a USN helo pilot. Plane guard, perhaps. Let's hear their perspective on landing a helo on a moving deck at night and in bad weather. Hey, we're all one team and respect what those flying "stiff wing" a/c contribute . . . but other pilots & aircrew are important too. Especially if you have a "liquid landing" and see a SAR helo arrive overhead with a rescue swimmer coming down on the hoist.
I flew Lockheed Tristar's for a while it had an early form of direct lift control using the flight spoilers, we were told at the time the only other aircraft to have this system was the F14. In some ways it made landing the L1011 harder than other large machines as the small forward pressure on the yoke close to the runway would cause a firm to hard landing.
6:44 although you make a landing you are significantly fast in your Hornet landing footage here. The velocity vector should be *trimmed* inside the "E-bracket" and the FCS will maintain the angle of attack for you leaving you free to focus almost entirely on lineup and power
AEROSPACE ENGINEER HERE: Have a look at that footage at 9:10 and as the Hornet is just over the other plane WATCH the control surfaces and the adjustments being made to the wings. The Elevators are easier to see but if you go to full screen and slow playback speed you can see the wing flap movements just before the plane goes behind the C-2 Greyhound. I now work in industrial control systems and that's some seriously impressive control algorithm work.
I don't know Mooch, with PLM and future improvements to it, kind of makes the aviator a bus driver and having to learn more of what NFO's do for battle space management since that is where its going. Good vid. Thanks.
Are you sure? It's a workload reduction tool, just like autopilot. Autopilot doesn't mean I can stop flying the airplane, but it does mean I can pay more attention to other tasks vs. trying to maintain level flight in addition to other tasks.
Ward, fantastic information. That training film explained a lot, get a real sense of why pilots had to practice (if you will allow that word) even with PLM appears to be an art form rather than an absolute. Always learn something new after watching your videos. Thanks again!😎
Those approach methods are helpful for as a corporate jet pilot as well! Small corrections, scan and trust the instruments.. as always your videos are the best Mooch!
This system is similar to flying the old L1011 and now the B787, which uses spoilers to make changes on the glideslope. The AOA of the plane never changed. Makes shooting approaches so much more stable.
"Meatball, lineup, angle-of-attack, meatball, lineup, angle-of-attack, meatball, lineup, meatball, lineup, meatball, meatball, meatball!" My only landing where I was really concerned was steaming through an area of storm-caused swells. Our view of the deck varied between the Plan Form of the Flight Deck, and the Jet Shop! I believe the LSOs waived us off a couple of times until the timing of our approach found a middle deck position that didn't unduly expose us to the risk of a crash.
Looks like a lot of potential for stalls and FUBAR, especially at night with a pitching deck in rough seas. I could drop my slick just about anywhere with last second stick input. A stall in a fighter is essentially flying an anvil, because inputs are so delayed, oops!
The carrier pilots still need to know how to land the old fashioned ways if the technology fails. This was my initial impression when you mentioned the computer system that makes their job easier, ws confurmed by Keds.
Have nothing but respect for the intelligence and skill of your mates, Ward. I wonder; did you ever bump into my friend Lt. CDR. Chuck Hertzler who flew Nam...I believe F4? He is the epitome of the dedicated Naval Aviator and gentleman.
@@WardCarroll Thank you kindly for your reply! You can check this history out as well...my First Cousin, Major Kenneth Wine Jr. was among the pilots in the first jet squadron of the newly minted USAF at Luke AFB and later a Nellis AFB. He flew the F-86 in Korea and later the F100 Super Saber in Europe and North Africa. Also, my Maternal Uncle was one of the last surviving 'Humpsters' of WWII, Captain John Bentley (RIP). Can't help but have an affection for all you folks who have a history flying.
As an old E-2 pilot and LSO I have very mixed feelings about this. While I am all for making carrier aviation safer, I guarantee this tech isn't available for the E-2 guys. We've never had auto-throttles, DLC, PLM, or auto-anything. We don't even have a HUD. Back in my day in the 90's an air wing would have 6 different airframes with tailhooks. They all had different performance capabilities that made them easier or harder to land on the boat. A good LSO knew this. The point is - all the pilots in the air wing are competing for the coveted Top Ten award (Top Ten landing grades of all pilots throughout the airwing). Even in my day the Hornet guys had every advantage (HUD, velocity vector, auto-throttles, speed brakes) but now it's even more unfair. Now there are only 2 airframes with tailhooks competing - Hornets and Hawkeyes. So now there is a 6:1 pilot ratio of Hornets to Hawkeyes, and we have an even greater gap of tech than ever. As a pilot, I am extremely proud of the fact that I won both Top-5 Nugget and Top Ten in my 2 deployments. I value those at least as much as I would an Air Medal. If you're not in Naval Air you can't possibly understand how hard those awards are to win, or the prestige they bring, especially as an E-2 guy. I fear nowadays it would be impossible for any E-2 pilot. But as an LSO I am also worried that we are losing the fundamentals of what makes Naval Aviation so special. We land on ships. And it takes special skill to do that. Alot of training, hundreds of hours... I would hate to ever see it made rudimentary by a computer. Computers break. You better be able to do it the old-fashioned way.
Former CVN AirOpsO...as PLM rolled out I began to wonder if it would make boarding rates so good that it would have a positive effect on CVN Operations, for example requiring less tanker fuel airborne because of reduced probability of a bolter. Maybe someone is looking at that, I hope so. That said, E-2C/D will never have anything like PLM, and inflight refueling also changes the game for a prop pilot's landing proficiency. I'd say if PLM becomes the standard, e.g. if "lack of PLM" becomes an "emergency procedure" for jet bubbas, then Top Hook awards could not be shared among jets and props. Two totally different animals at that point, totally separate awards for totally disparate skills. BTW hi Ed it's Tito VAW-125.
@@adamdejesus4017 Wow an old fellow Tigertail! So cool that you found my comments and recognized my name! That was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Hope you are well.
Interesting to see how AoA is part of the carrier approach. I wonder how much current carrier pilots practice without PLM in case it becomes inoperative?
A great segment! The training film is directly applicable to the A-4, F-4 and EA-6B. The F-8, not so much. The Crusader's lack of speed stability and its attendant propensity for an insidious decel complicated the problem and resulted in a lot more pitch and throttle movement. (the French Crusaders, I believe, had DLC [direct lift control], the granddaddy of the PLM). When I got to Prowlers and big decks, it was like I had died and gone to heaven.
Love those old D.O.D. films from the late 40’s - 70’s, which were made at Lookout Mountain AFS in Hollywood. They have a certain look and sound to them that holds a lot of nostalgia and were simple and easy to understand. Today’s training films seem hard to follow and overly confusing, which isn’t beneficial to new generations of recruits. Keep it simple!
Yes, they seem like parodies when you here this type of narration. Very similar to MOD and public information films in the UK.
They're far better IMO. Understated, and they presume you can concentrate for more than five seconds without a change in visuals or camera angle.
Yea that’s where they did the moon landing
You can’t get more Americana than this and Alex Jones USA 🇺🇸
Same with the old firefighter training films: the guys kept it all simple!
They move awfully slow for “new generations of recruits”
My Dad flew Hellcats during WWII and Panthers in the early '50s. Stick and rudder days. He did a round the world cruise on the Tarawa in 1954, it was an unusual cruise in that they lost no aircraft on it.
Which Squadron was your Dad in? My dad flew Panthers with VF52 in the early 50's too.
@@richardkaiser3756 Not too sure, VF102 sticks in my mind.
As a Swede, we do not have aircraft carriers BUT obviously I'm a great believer in the meatball!
I am part Italian... But I'm also a great believer in the meatball! 🙂
Well played, gentlemen!
I agree Meat Ball Yum Yum
Great work Mattias
Bork Bork Bork Bork!!!!
“It doesn’t make it easy, it just makes it less difficult.”
If things were easy, everyone would be doing it. Great words of wisdom!
@@Yomamakizmanuts put it better than I could.
My grandpa flew Bell helicopters in Korea, ran out of gas once on final approach to a carrier, and it was so close he scraped the skids off on the stern of the ship. Another foot or two lower and you wouldn't be reading this now.
2 more litres of fuel & there'd be nothing to tell too 🤔
@@babboon5764if only combat was perfectly choreographed.
@@paulc7486 Grandpa had the option of ditching in the sea, but then the two wounded Marines strapped down on the outside would've drowned. He weighed the odds and morality of definitely losing two Marines to probably losing three Marines (including himself), rolled the dice, and got lucky.
@@cutedogsgettingcuddles9862 Your grandpa sounds like a badass. If he’s still with us, thank him for his service.
I came from Air Force Parents.
Dad was in SAC before the merge, and Mom delayed her retirement from Hickam Logistics due to the 1st Gulf War. (She got a lot of overtime as a civilian worker).
I have to say that US Naval Aviation is badass. Props to our Navy and Marine folk!
As always, thank you for your continuing service!
So the guy with the last name "Converse" gets the call sign "Keds". Brilliant.
You were expecting "All Star"? At least it wasn't Sketchers or New Balance...
Or “Chuck” or “Chuck T.”
The old saying I heard (back in my days in VT10) was that Naval Aviators (tactical) can do everything an Air Force pilot can - plus they land on that little flight deck....
In my days with VF-102 (before Ed'ward' was there) at a bar in Scotland after flying the Mach Loop, I was told our friends in the Air Force "Flare to land, squat to pee".
Everytime you post these carrier landings videos it reminds me back in the early 70’s of watching my dad’s 8mm film of his Hawkeye landing on the Connie on station off the coast of Vietnam. Looked like fun as a kid but thinking about it now it must of been a pretty violent stop.
I had to laugh at the training film which perpetuated the myth that you make a carrier approach in a crab since the carrier is constantly moving to the pilot's right. Back in the days of iron men and wooden decks when I was flying the F-8 Crusader ( a particularly difficult airplane to land on a carrier), the ship's navigator in consultation with the Air Boss was able to put the wind right down the angle nearly all the time if there was a bit of natural wind for him to work with. Consequently, we lined up with the center-line and flew directly into the relative wind (coming right down the angled deck) without any crab just like every carrier pass then and now. Airplanes fly relative to the wind and if that wind is lined up with the runway, no crab is required and that is exactly the same on a stationary runway as it is on an angled deck. Of course, if there is a cross wind, you must fly final in a crab to stay on center-line and that is the case with a crosswind relative to a conventional runway or in the rare case of no natural wind at sea when the navigator has no choice other than to put the wind is down the axial deck.
Ever played DCS? Are those old jets as difficult to trap in real life as their sim counterparts parts? The Tomcat for example compared to the Hornet is night and day. Actually it’s not even comparable. Fly by wire, HMQS, ILS, ACLS, auto throttles. But aside from all the bells and whistles, fly by wire is the biggest difference I noticed between gen 3 and 4 jets. Would like you take. Thanks.
I haven't flow anything with a jet engine but ....
You're saying you don't have to make any allowance for the fact your 'runway' is itself moving left to right?
Would I be right in thinking you're best lined up into wind and you have a small touch of aeliron to compensate for the 'its all moving left to right' but that hint of stick is so 'second nature' its almost below conscious level?
@@babboon5764I haven't flown anything that wasn't a simulator but...
No aircraft on this planet gets to fly relative to what it's landing on. The wings and the rest of the air frame are carried on the body of air that is quite likely moving at sea.
It's basic trig to take the wind speed vector, and break that into two components that gives you a heading for the boat at a given speed where the lateral component relative to the body of air becomes zero.
My frame of reference there comes more from designing simulated guidance and flight control systems, where steering the boat to neutralize crab is simple if you have enough wind.
That doesn't account for gusts, and most importantly doesn't stop the deck from moving up and down.
As far as not noticing the slight crosswind adjustment, most of the planes landing on the carrier in the last 40 years have a HUD that's going to make that movement blatantly obvious.
I can't say whether pilots begin to automatically disregard the markers on their HUD to account for crosswind using their gut, but it sounds like a dangerous recipe.
Hopefully I've said at least one thing wrong enough, a real naval aviator will come set the record straight.
@@babboon5764regarding the HUD, what I'm saying is just looking forward you can see where your nose is pointed, and there's a flight path marker that shows you exactly where the plane is going to end up. If your aircraft and your runway are both moving left at the same speed, you can align the flight path marker to the centerline of the runway and with no change in course it will stay aligned. If the wind is also moving left at the same speed, the water line or boresight or what have you shows you the nose is horizontally aligned with the flight path marker, there is no subconscious trim for crosswind going on.
Actually, it was OOD and JOD (usually connlng the ship) who put the wind right down the angle.
In full disclosure, I’m not a pilot but a surface line officer. In 1963 the Navy installed the SPN10 system on the Midway. This was an automated landing system using a precision radar beam locked onto the nose wheel. There were approximately 50 successful traps with Paxriver aircraft. The system was installed on our F4 squadron but to my knowledge no traps were accomplished. Word was the pilots said if their hands weren’t on the stick then they would be on ejection handles
I was a radar ET aboard the USS Forrestal in 82. Our Automated Carrier Landing System (ACLS) was the SPN-42. Never worked on it myself, though I did supervise the people that did part of the time. The way it was explained to me, as the pilot approached, the radar would get a lock on the aircraft, taking control of it at 5 miles out. That would put the plane on the glide slope properly positioned. Then, at about 1 mile out, control was returned to the pilot, who actually put the plane on deck. I was further told that the radar could, in theory at least, also land the plane, but we weren't certified to that level.
Also, one of the two F4s we lost that cruise was due to it hitting the ramp during a night recovery. Since they used the ACLS during the night recoveries, we had investigators in our shop going over maintenance records, interviewing the techs, etc, for weeks afterward. They ultimately ruled it pilot error. Nobody survived that crash. I saw the immediate aftermath (radar shop was in the island), burning pieces of wreckage scattered across the entire recovery area, fantail to island.
The SPN10 was full auto. During initial trials it was determined that the radar beam was moving on the aircraft skin thus no good reference point. Solution was a cone reflector just above the nose wheel. Problem solved.
Spent time, when I was not in the mushroom locker.
On the fan tail or on the pointy end under the bridge watching aircraft.
Between port and starboard watches.
When it was our turn at plane guard.
Sometimes on the fan tail a flying fish would land on the helo deck.
The 1st Helos on the Crommellin was HSL 20 & 21 WestPac 1985. The 3rd & 4th of the SH60Bs.
HSL 41 had fun times in Earnest Will
Those were a much better ride than a Huey. Or a S-3.
Sorry,,, I got in the habit of not making long tapes for radio.
If I remember correctly, Mode 1A was fully automatic. All aircraft could use the ACLS (Mode 1, not 1A) for the data, displayed needles, etc. once it was installed on the carrier AND integrated into the aircraft display systems, but only certified aircraft could go full AUTO where the CV would control the aircraft flight controls all the way to touchdown. The PLM in this video seems to be pilot controlled, with control surfaces being manipulated by the landing system mode in the aircraft, controlled by the a/c flight computer, not the CV.
The Spn10 was the first Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) used on carriers. This system was replaced in the early 70's by the SPN42 which did do fully automatic landings used by pilots in the fleet. In 1984 the newest version of ACLS called SPN46 was installed on the JFK CV67 which provided greater reliability and used by fleet pilots. The SPN46 has gone through numerous upgrades over the years and was supposed to be replaced by a system called JPALS a more GPS based system starting in 2014. I have worked on three systems, and I'm retired now but understand that system will be upgraded to incorporate "magic carpet" into the ACLS Mode I(auto approach) commands.
PLM notwithstanding, anyone that can land an airplane at 130/140 knots on a few hundred feet of moving steel at night in the middle of the an ocean is one he** of a pilot. They truly are the best of the best!
In my youth, we would watch pilots in F4s practice at El Toro on a mock carrier deck. It was impressive.
Anyone doubt it takes courage, brains, and skill to fly an airplane, let alone land on an aircraft carrier?
Bro you better keep a towel in your back pocket to help all those pilots clean themselves up after you've glazed them
No...
No doubt...
🐦
at night, in bad weather, with a pitching deck...
Yep - Doubt it takes all 3 unless you're trying to land on a carrier
WHY?
I get by with just a bit of skill and possibly a whisker of luck 🙄
A relative was a wild weasel pilot that flew in North Vietnam to have the same fire so they could be targeted.
He said when he would fly towards the sun to try to get away from the Sam's that he was monitored for heart rate, and his heart rate didn't go up as much trying to get away from the missiles as it did when he tried to land on the ship
Still very complicated - like you said: "Only the best get to do it". Thanks for another great video!
As some in the navy and the interim have insisted. To some things, there is only one right way to do it. Adding or subtracting a step will absolutely result in failure.
Great content Ward. Loved the old film and the PLM explanation. Quite the contrast in technology.
8:55 Being that guy in green to the right as the f-18 approaches, that view would never get old. 10:55 This was a cool view.
It also never gets less dangerous.
I actually miss that. The view, the smells, the entire process of carrier flight ops. I was a brown shirt. Plane captain at VFA-131.
@@Funk_Reactions rock on!
@@WardCarroll Amen, but it's the edge that's sharpest, right?
@@Funk_Reactions Cat steam , Cv 61. Green Shirt
I remember a time when there were two flying F-35As on the planet and no Cs. I was in the control room for many of those early test flights. There was that time when AF-2 needed to catch a wire with our tiny Air Force hook. That was pretty exciting before the fact, but our test pilot made it look easy, and there was not much to talk about after the fact. Then there was that time we were asked to engage PLM for a landing. We Air Force types were having a hard time figuring out why this thing was needed, but were assured that our Navy bothers and sisters thought it was pretty cool. Our Edwards AFB "deck" is 300' by 15,000'. Thanks, Ward, for connecting the dots.
I'm a retired Captain Airbus guy, auto throttles are so nice lol. Great post Ward.
Autoland capabilities are so good that even DEI pilots can do it.
@@jamesburns2232 the sim instructors will fail various components at various times, some significant but even if at 400 ft You don't get a GREEN GREEN callout you go around. We were moving at one football field per second, so things happen fast.
"Ejection Vectors" and "The Man from LOX" were two classic titles that have stuck in my mind.
"Ejection Decision" was another great one.
I've never flown anything, not even an RC airplane, but after this video and staying at a Holiday Inn Express I got this landing np.
A friend of mine was one of the leads on Magic Carpet development for Boeing. I had a fascinating discussion with him last summer when we visited. I have come across a Magic Carpet brief delivered by Pax River test team. And Magic Carpet is how drones get aboard the ship too. thanks for the video!
Ward, great story about technology helping pilots when they most need it.
Midway 76&77 in V2 AG we called "in the groove" and "on the ramp" during recoveries, on our sound powered phone circuit.
"There is nothing more practical than a good theory!" - Gustav Robert Kirchhoff (19th century German physicist). You should always be prepared for a PLM failure!
Thanks, Mooch. This one definitely had the feel of one of those old "You Were There" episodes. 😎
Nice , but wonder if My Captain, & Idol, Admiral Diego Hernandez, CV-67, 1980 would be "IMPRESSED" ?
I actually learned something I didn't know! Great!
I attended a speech at the High School alma mater of a flying Admiral.
At Fairborn High School, very near to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio.
Naturally, very many Fliers, mos'ly USAF Fliers, attended.
At an Officer's Club reception later that evening, the consensus was...
Navy Fliers are "a cut above" any Other Fighter Driver.
🙂
Rick Bonner Pennsyltuck
I was a crew chief on F-15's and while our pilots were good, we all knew that they were not carrier quality.
Thanks, Ward.
Glideslope to a moving target is an interesting concept..... Aiming for where the runway will be in 30 seconds, so to speak. Naval aviators amaze me.
Ward, It might be worth a quickie at some point about why ILS cannot meaningfully be "a thing" in carrier aviation for us civilian folk out here who keep hearing about "autoland" (which isn't as "auto" as many think) and wonder why the Navy doesn't do it. (I get it, but that's because I understand how ILS works…and why that's not compatible with mission requirements.) If you already did that then a link would be useful.
Drew, are you by any chance related to ABEC Larry Nothup with whom I served on the Coral Sea?
@@bobharrison7693 Not that I'm immediately aware of. That said, I haven't done a full breadth search of the family tree yet. Given how long my branch of the family has been in North America all kinds of things are possible.
My grandfather served on the Oriskany, which it appears Larry may have served on 20 years later… (There aren't many of us Northup folk, so based on the assignment & rank it is a safe guess.)
Low and slow is my preferred attitude 😎
Mister, I don't think I like your attitude.
Hello everyone from Buffalo Niagara Falls NY USA 👋🇺🇲
Home of the 107th fighter intercepor sqiadron back in the day.
@@jamesfuria3939my dad was a MP in the 107th in the late 50s early 60s and a friend retired from the 107th about ten years ago 😉
I always welcome "less difficult". Life is plenty difficult. 🐿
Really interesting Mooch thank you
All I know is... Even in the Sim, I STILL get nervous landing on the deck. 😂
Back in my business travel days, sometimes I'd see the pilot with squadron stickers on his flight bag. I knew I was in good hands. In the Navy, I was the pilots best friend. AE
As an AT, I'd think the pilot's best friend would be their confidence, their skill, and the PRs and AMEs.
Spaghetti will never be the same again for me. "Trust the Meatball" is as profound as "May the Force Be With You."
I'm thinking of your novels, and the character of Creepy, and his methods. This makes me laugh, because that would probably be me in an alternate universe where I'm an LSO.
Wwwrrrrooonnnggggggggg!
The hoops we jump through to make the aviators think they are in command of the airplane, ironically at the same time as every tool becomes more of a crutch.
I''m pretty sure we watched that film back in Beeville when I was training for my first look at the Lexington (1974)
Still gotta do it old school in the T-45 before you get these nice upgrades.
Thanks Ward. Very informative and entertaining!
Lockeed had "Direct Lift Control" on the L-1011. Biased the spoilers a small amount up on final. First few degrees of column movement gave more or less spoiler and no pitch change.
Any guy that has completed carrier landings has my eternal admiration! Hard enough in my uncle's day when the Fairy Swordfish was standard in the British Fleet Air Arm - his group of 24 trainees lost two aircraft and a learner while still on a land base practise field marked out as a carrier deck complete with island. Double, triple difficult in fast, heavy jets!
To me that featured approach looked far from Positive Attitude till very, very close in - yer fantastic touch down. Hats off!
Love those deck action shorts. Only the best get to even try, hope they hold onto that standard.
"If you are high, reduce power. If you are low, add power."
Heck, I could have written this script. It's like, "Buy low. Sell high."
Yeah but, have to maintain correct angle of attack all the while.
@@richardmcgirr4057 I know. I was just kidding. ;)
Its the re correction that gets you.
I remember watching that video prior to CQ in 1996 lol I wish I had PLM all those years I flew to the boat, over 600 traps.
Constantly high quality videos.Thank you for your effort Ward and your service.
Interesting video. Thanks.
I like that you were patient in letting the video run so we can absorb it all and are making this a series vs. trying to cram too much in a short video. Can't wait to see the next ep!
As in commercial flying auto throttles blunt your reptile brains instinctive pitch and power response. This muscle memory is lost on newer pilots and I would imagine if the auto throttles become inop on the F18 at night many pilots will wish that they had these old school skills.
I have observed the same. Automation has a downside as basic flying skills will deteriorate and with it confidence.
It's really great to see a major change implemented in Aviation that both reduces workload AND increases safety.
The thing I always hated about working in Aviation was running into the old "establishment" or "organizational" response: "we've always done it this way, we're not gonna change it now..."
Because no matter how well researched and studied a situation is, changes in technology might very well merit a change in S.O.P.
Mooch, I appreciate your well deserved nostalgia for carriers but I fear they are too vulnerable in today's world
They’re not.
The training video reminded me of a time in my service as a Navy SAR helo pilot. We were on a detachment to the USS Kitty Hawk in the early 90’s as she was coming out of the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard for sea trials. While we were usually droning around in circles in Starboard Delta, in this case they’d asked us to fly the meatball glideslope for several sorties to help calibrate the meatball. During the day it wasn’t a problem to respond to differing requests from the air boss to fly the H-3 in the groove, but it became quite problematic one horizonless night when they asked us to go into a high hover while on glideslope at about 400’ a couple hundred yards aft of the ship! Sorry boss. No go.
Tremendous episode, Ward. Concise but full of information. Thanks for sharing!
I learned on the top gun NES game.
I didn't want to say it. It would sound silly. Def perfected the craft on Atari top gun lol
Hi Ward, i thought this was gonna be about those new Electro magnetic catapults. You win this round sir. 🧐👍
DLC does not mean you don’t have to adjust power; DLC does not mean you can fix glide slope errors merely with stick, it just gives quicker initial fixes via stick but you’re still going to need a power adjustment albeit a smaller adjustment as you will need an adjusted neutral power point to your new glide path. & he misspoke when he said old aircraft stick for glidepath, the video had it right, power for glidepath, stick (trim) for AOA (or speed in lieu of). If you DLC off a high, you’ll still need to add a touch of power as you’ll now need to fly flatter than you were a moment ago; what you saved doing was having to pull power, counter correct with sufficient counter to break the sinking momentum, then counter-counter correct to set the power for the new path. One DLC and one power adjustment both more immediately executed versus three power corrections spread over a bit more time. Note, in the old Hornet, we could get away with “poor man’s DLC” by wagging the wings while certain old aircraft like the F-14 and S-3 had true DLC (read spoilers like gliders have) which is a bit different than F/A-18 Rhino, EA-18, and F-35 which suffer an added concern of drag changes with wing shaping (when you reduce the lift of the wing, you also reduce induced drag which means you probably need a momentary parasitic add). These newer aircraft have vulnerabilities in this system as seen with the F-35C in the SCS. Search Medium for that topic, you’ll find a good read.
I sure am glad none of the runways I landed on moved, rolled in ocean waves, or were that tiny.
Ward, we love your work here. Please interview a USN helo pilot. Plane guard, perhaps. Let's hear their perspective on landing a helo on a moving deck at night and in bad weather. Hey, we're all one team and respect what those flying "stiff wing" a/c contribute . . . but other pilots & aircrew are important too. Especially if you have a "liquid landing" and see a SAR helo arrive overhead with a rescue swimmer coming down on the hoist.
In work. Stay tuned.
I flew Lockheed Tristar's for a while it had an early form of direct lift control using the flight spoilers, we were told at the time the only other aircraft to have this system was the F14. In some ways it made landing the L1011 harder than other large machines as the small forward pressure on the yoke close to the runway would cause a firm to hard landing.
I never saw a bad landing at EAL on an L-1011 with DLC. The airplane flew down final on rails. As opposed to the Airbuss A300.
I think I remember watching that film in flight school, would have been nice to have PLM on the F-4.
6:44 although you make a landing you are significantly fast in your Hornet landing footage here. The velocity vector should be *trimmed* inside the "E-bracket" and the FCS will maintain the angle of attack for you leaving you free to focus almost entirely on lineup and power
AEROSPACE ENGINEER HERE: Have a look at that footage at 9:10 and as the Hornet is just over the other plane WATCH the control surfaces and the adjustments being made to the wings. The Elevators are easier to see but if you go to full screen and slow playback speed you can see the wing flap movements just before the plane goes behind the C-2 Greyhound.
I now work in industrial control systems and that's some seriously impressive control algorithm work.
I don't know Mooch, with PLM and future improvements to it, kind of makes the aviator a bus driver and having to learn more of what NFO's do for battle space management since that is where its going. Good vid. Thanks.
Computers break, you still need to know how to fly the airplane and land it.
Are you sure? It's a workload reduction tool, just like autopilot. Autopilot doesn't mean I can stop flying the airplane, but it does mean I can pay more attention to other tasks vs. trying to maintain level flight in addition to other tasks.
Ward, fantastic information. That training film explained a lot, get a real sense of why pilots had to practice (if you will allow that word) even with PLM appears to be an art form rather than an absolute. Always learn something new after watching your videos. Thanks again!😎
PLM looks nifty :) something that takes any kind of cognitive load off the pilots is a good thing.
Those approach methods are helpful for as a corporate jet pilot as well! Small corrections, scan and trust the instruments.. as always your videos are the best Mooch!
Concur. Putting a Premier Jet onto a short, wet runway at night required similar focus.
This system is similar to flying the old L1011 and now the B787, which uses spoilers to make changes on the glideslope. The AOA of the plane never changed. Makes shooting approaches so much more stable.
"Meatball, lineup, angle-of-attack, meatball, lineup, angle-of-attack, meatball, lineup, meatball, lineup, meatball, meatball, meatball!"
My only landing where I was really concerned was steaming through an area of storm-caused swells. Our view of the deck varied between the Plan Form of the Flight Deck, and the Jet Shop!
I believe the LSOs waived us off a couple of times until the timing of our approach found a middle deck position that didn't unduly expose us to the risk of a crash.
What was your landing grade for that pass? Just curious
@@Jarhead1086 At this late date (+40 years), I don't remember.
LOVE IT,ROGER BALL
I knew eventually technology would make a huge change to carrier landings!!
This is actually what I needed to get better at landing the F/A-18 in DCS 😂
Used to watch the birds coming in on the Nimitz. You could tell who was using PLM and who wasn't.
Okay, now dig out : "120 Volts, 60 Cycles: Your Deadly Shipmate"
You carrier pilots always blow my mind, wow.
Looks like a lot of potential for stalls and FUBAR, especially at night with a pitching deck in rough seas. I could drop my slick just about anywhere with last second stick input. A stall in a fighter is essentially flying an anvil, because inputs are so delayed, oops!
The carrier pilots still need to know how to land the old fashioned ways if the technology fails. This was my initial impression when you mentioned the computer system that makes their job easier, ws confurmed by Keds.
"Liquid landing?" That's awesome!
Have nothing but respect for the intelligence and skill of your mates, Ward. I wonder; did you ever bump into my friend Lt. CDR. Chuck Hertzler who flew Nam...I believe F4? He is the epitome of the dedicated Naval Aviator and gentleman.
Don’t think so.
@@WardCarroll Thank you kindly for your reply! You can check this history out as well...my First Cousin, Major Kenneth Wine Jr. was among the pilots in the first jet squadron of the newly minted USAF at Luke AFB and later a Nellis AFB. He flew the F-86 in Korea and later the F100 Super Saber in Europe and North Africa. Also, my Maternal Uncle was one of the last surviving 'Humpsters' of WWII, Captain John Bentley (RIP). Can't help but have an affection for all you folks who have a history flying.
Great video Ward…Go Navy. Fly Navy…
Thanks, Ward for making the content on your videos so interesting.
The meatballs lol.
I think this is another film restored by Periscope. Those guys do some great stuff.
Cool stuff as usual. Keep the content coming. Thanks Ward.
4:05 'liquid landing' Ha, funny.
As an old E-2 pilot and LSO I have very mixed feelings about this. While I am all for making carrier aviation safer, I guarantee this tech isn't available for the E-2 guys. We've never had auto-throttles, DLC, PLM, or auto-anything. We don't even have a HUD. Back in my day in the 90's an air wing would have 6 different airframes with tailhooks. They all had different performance capabilities that made them easier or harder to land on the boat. A good LSO knew this. The point is - all the pilots in the air wing are competing for the coveted Top Ten award (Top Ten landing grades of all pilots throughout the airwing). Even in my day the Hornet guys had every advantage (HUD, velocity vector, auto-throttles, speed brakes) but now it's even more unfair. Now there are only 2 airframes with tailhooks competing - Hornets and Hawkeyes. So now there is a 6:1 pilot ratio of Hornets to Hawkeyes, and we have an even greater gap of tech than ever.
As a pilot, I am extremely proud of the fact that I won both Top-5 Nugget and Top Ten in my 2 deployments. I value those at least as much as I would an Air Medal. If you're not in Naval Air you can't possibly understand how hard those awards are to win, or the prestige they bring, especially as an E-2 guy. I fear nowadays it would be impossible for any E-2 pilot. But as an LSO I am also worried that we are losing the fundamentals of what makes Naval Aviation so special. We land on ships. And it takes special skill to do that. Alot of training, hundreds of hours... I would hate to ever see it made rudimentary by a computer. Computers break. You better be able to do it the old-fashioned way.
Former CVN AirOpsO...as PLM rolled out I began to wonder if it would make boarding rates so good that it would have a positive effect on CVN Operations, for example requiring less tanker fuel airborne because of reduced probability of a bolter. Maybe someone is looking at that, I hope so. That said, E-2C/D will never have anything like PLM, and inflight refueling also changes the game for a prop pilot's landing proficiency. I'd say if PLM becomes the standard, e.g. if "lack of PLM" becomes an "emergency procedure" for jet bubbas, then Top Hook awards could not be shared among jets and props. Two totally different animals at that point, totally separate awards for totally disparate skills. BTW hi Ed it's Tito VAW-125.
@@adamdejesus4017 Wow an old fellow Tigertail! So cool that you found my comments and recognized my name! That was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Hope you are well.
Awesome as always!
Commander, well done and I really learned something this morning!!!
the look of fear in the eyes of the JGs during workups was for a good reason ,,,
😊thank You !❤
Interesting to see how AoA is part of the carrier approach. I wonder how much current carrier pilots practice without PLM in case it becomes inoperative?
Thank you for sharing Ward.
I watched a video on how to do a carrier landing in DCS . . . so I'm pretty much an expert . . .
Sounds like a digitally integrated DLC.
I was thinking the same thing though my only experience is playing Tomcat pilot in DCS I use that little thumbwheel all the time.
A great segment! The training film is directly applicable to the A-4, F-4 and EA-6B. The F-8, not so much. The Crusader's lack of speed stability and its attendant propensity for an insidious decel complicated the problem and resulted in a lot more pitch and throttle movement. (the French Crusaders, I believe, had DLC [direct lift control], the granddaddy of the PLM). When I got to Prowlers and big decks, it was like I had died and gone to heaven.
Another job well-done, Mooch!