Aviation Entertainment: What not to do with your Floatplane on a Windy Day
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- This is a video filmed at Lake Hood in Anchorage Alaska. When flying Float planes on windy days a lot of considerations come into play and the displacement of the flight control surfaces matters a whole lot while just floating on the water. Taxing a Seaplane in the water with windy conditions properly is often called "Sailing the airplane" and there are conditions where you better not turn out of the wind. In very strong winds with a floatplane you may have to keep the nose into the wind no matter what. Turning downwind on the water can be a problem and sometimes one has to let the plane drift backward, downwind, with the nose pointed into the wind instead of trying to turn and taxi downwind under power etc etc.
Anyhow, I bet there will be a lot of comments.
When he tried to take off and the floats refused to plane I suspected either gear or flooding. Gear was confirmed when he tipped up.
He wasn't trying to take off. He was trying to power it around to a downwind direction - a stupid thing to do in winds that strong unless you like destroying your prop and are clueless to the risk of the wind picking up the windward wing. If he was trying to take off, he would have the gear up, water rudders up, flaps at 10 or 20°, and he wouldn't still be adding power after he swung around. Gear goes down in the water when you're planning on going up a ramp.
Have another tequila and get over yourself. Since he was definitely not at the ramp, the gear should have definitely been up.
I suspected flooding because I didn't think anyone could be that dumb.
@@azzir325 The ramp would have been behind him. You put the gear down after you land so that it's down before you get to it. If he was taking off, he would have had the water rudders up, not down. He would have had 10 or 20° of flap. He would not have held full right rudder with the stick back and kept it in throughout a 180° turn. Why would he try to continue a takeoff throughout a 180° turn?
Even assuming you are correct, who cares? Idiots gotta idiot.
Just because you can afford anphibs, doesn't mean you can read a checklist.
What checklist do you think he should have been reading? He obviously was not trying to take off.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila No more tequila for you.
Multiple problems... gear down is obvious, but the flight controls for the wind condition were basically nonexistent. Like they say, life is hard, but it's even harder when you're dumb.
Lots of dumbness happening throughout the world these days. And they will argue for ever and will die first before they admit that they were wrong.
I always liked, "Stupid is supposed to hurt."
You mean: Amateur.
@@Mthammere2010 Cross-wind controls are covered in basic flight instruction. Either this pilot was poorly taught or thought they were unimportant. Anytime there's white on the water, you'd better be paying attention and know what you're doing.
I'm a true idiot. Dumb as some rocks just sitting there. Stupid as the sun. Rtarded as all get up. Me! And proud of it!❤❤❤😊
1) Don’t just read a checklist. Confirm each item on the checklist
2) When a plane doesn’t behave as it should: Go back and confirm each item on the checklist
This guy’s step 2) THROTTLE:FULL RUDDER:HARDRIGHT
step one: beer and an idea
step two: beer and plane
got it. loud and clear
Great advise in general, but it shows you are clueless as to what was really going on. What checklist do you think would have helped him? 🤣
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila
How about the one that tells you to raise your gear after entering the water... and to not attempt taking off with it down...?
@@FallenPhoenix86 1) Water rudders are still down. 2) Flaps are still up. 3) Gear is down. 4) He continues to add full right rudder when plowing with the yoke back (you need a bit of left rudder when pitching up to keep it straight). 5) Who in their right mind would still be adding partial power in bursts after you turned right 180° from your intended take off direction?? Nothing about this incident says he was trying to take off.
He landed into the wind. He was going to a ramp downwind from where he landed. He needed to put the wheels down well before he arrived at the ramp so it would be fully down and locked in the water. When the wind is strong, it's very hard to turn it around, and he couldn't get it to go, so he powered it around (bad idea - he should have sailed it. It's way easier on the prop, and you don't risk the wind putting you in on your nose like this. This exact thing happens often to idiots who try to power it around to downwind. I know of two airplanes that this happened to. Both of them were 185s. Both of them got flipped onto their nose as they neared the end of their high-power 180° plow turn.
Gear down, can be seen under starboard float at 0:40.
The gear can't be down in the water? He was most likely planning on driving it up a ramp. His dumb mistake was trying to power it downwind instead of sailing it.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila Sure can, but still needs to hold the controls for the wind conditions, and maybe be less aggressive with the throttle - believe he tried to blow the tail down with the power, but the tailwind and the gear down just helped putting it on its nose.
ukraine sucks
Glad to see the 185 isn't wrecked, hopefully they learned a lesson or sold it to someone smarter.
Looks like gear down take offs are just a bit better on the airframe than gear down landings.
Do you seriously think he was trying to take off? 🤦♂
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila I’m a complete idiot. I’ve got 22,800 hours pic flight time with over 1200 hours of commercial amphib float time. About 2500 commercial straight float time. I have no idea what I’m saying nor do I have any clue about what appeared to happened in this video. My mistake for making any sort of a comment. I will leave the expert analysis to persons such as yourself.
But on a side note Yes, he was trying to take off into a gusty stiff 20 + knot wind. Gear was down with a ton of drag. Wind turned plane to the right (after he pulled the power if you know what P factor is and what happened when that force was removed) which he could not stop with rudder and water rudders then the wind blew the plane all of the way 180 degrees and then got up under the tail which made the aircraft pitch forward resulting in a prop.
Floats also too small for that airframe. Amphibious are extremely heavy vs straight floats. They also could be leaky and full of water. Plane has almost zero positive buoyancy / floatation. The tops of the floats are almost flush with the surface of the water. Additionally, extremely poor pilot performance. This guy looks like an armature pilot. Want to go even further determine the cause of this?? Or do you just like arguing on the internet??????
@@jpdunamislodge I don't think you are a complete idiot, I just think you're not overly observant. My straight float and amphib time are almost identical to yours. I am a little shy on the TT, though. I only have 21,800 hours. Not sure why you felt the need to posture, though.
Here's why it doesn't make any sense that he was trying to take off... 1) Water rudders are down. 2) Gear is down. 3) Flaps are up. 4) When he powered up, he put full right rudder in and kept it there throughout the 180° turn. As a seasoned float pilot, you should know that you put right rudder in when you're pushing it onto the step, not when you're pulling back on the stick. 5) If he was trying to take off, why would he continue to actively add power (with right rudder) even though he's no longer pointed in the direction he wanted to take off?
Or there's another option... He'd landed, and wanted to power up a ramp behind him, but the wind wouldn't let him turn around. So, he tried to power turn it (dumb idea) with full right rudder until he completed his turn. You need the gear down to power up the ramp, so you'd put it down after landing.
He could just be so ridiculously retarded that everything he did trying to take off was the opposite of what you should do, or he could have just made a bad decision to try a power turn to downwind. Would you start a take off with full right rudder and maintain it until you've done a complete 180°?
Pilot after the prop hits water: "clear prop, we are going around again"
I worked in the North with a fair amount of rich but inexperienced float drivers coming up. Just because you can afford it, doesn’t mean you can fly it. Floats are a different breed than wheels.
Wow. This is like hearing a car driving down the street with screeching tires because the ditzy driver hasn't removed the parking brake but keeps driving anyway.
If you look closely you can see his landing gear is down. When he noses over you can see a back wheel sticking out.
yes I know, but you observed it well.
Wrong aileron input.
Well spotted!
I think those are rudders not wheels.
Good catch, nicely done Sir!!!
It’s hard to transition from submarine to airplane pilot.
My guess is no float rating and no float experience. Probably another lawyer that is unteachable and sued the last place that worked on his plane and his last cfi.
Yes, we have seen "that kind" enough, here in Alaska as well...
At least one of those types at every airport. Usually they have a Cirrus though.
@@Chrisovideos thankfully they haven't figured out how to put floats on a cirrus yet lol
Meh, float rating or not, experience or not, it was a complete lack of comprehension that something wasn't right.
@@Chrisovideosor a bonanza, the doctor killer
The control inputs were wrong for a right-quartering tailwind--the elevator was up instead of down, and the ailerons were for a roll right instead of a roll left or neutral.
RRright.
Looks like he was taking off into the wind
@@stewartlehmann6504 He wasn't. He was trying to turn around, but foolishly thought powering it around was a better idea than sailing it.
I never thought those ~7 hours "courses" available in Florida seemed like a good idea. Some outfits in Texas only have a water filled trench the width of a runway. If I could ever afford it, I planned to go to Canada where some schools have 22 hour courses including landings on rivers and remote lakes. I always thought there was a lot more to flying a seaplane than can adequately be learned in less than 10 hours behind a yoke or stick. Maybe I am just a slow learner.
Yes, I certainly cannot agree more with you! So True. The License is "A ticket to learn", nothing more than that. The cost of flying has gone up ugly and the inflation will get worse if this government sticks around, so these "lack of Training" kinda issues will also get worse... Best Regards from Alaska.
A 'Murphy's War' moment...Murphy did put his gear up after getting craned into the water
You mention "sailing the airplane." Its also true that you can't make a down wind turn like that in a sailboat either.
Sailing in floatplanes is when you shut down the engine, extend the flaps, and let the wind blow you downwind to your parking spot. To a limited extent you can even "steer it" a little using your flight controls, water rudders, and even open doors.
yup. With the sailboat, if you try that, you gonna break stuff.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila Yes, for sure, but not everybody has the patience for that and many do not have to patience to listen to those who try to teach 'em. Seems to be the disease of our times, too.
Expensive learning lesson
bet ya that prop strike never got logged :)
I was an A&P mechanic for 27 years, I've seen it all, you are so correct on that statement how about the prop strike.
Im no hydraulics water, genius, but I am a private pilot. But it seems if you try to takeoff into a very strong head wind, 30 to 40 knots on the water. It’s not like wheels on a runway. Airplane is never going to get up and plane because you don’t have enough speed over the water because of the friction. .
Hi Daviddoss1104, The problem you are envisioning does not exist, the issue here in the video is very different, he is using control displacements that make the plane do what it did because of the wind, the power used, and the Wheels down on these amphib' floats. I have been flying floatplanes myself since 1991 and I do own two amphib flying boats. To take off in this wind or land in this wind would not be an issue when doing it right. But , as demonstrated by the guy in the video it can go very wrong. My guess is also that he was trying to approach a ramp and taxi the plane out of the water. The issue there is that that is a very bad idea to do in this wind with a tailwind. He should have used another ramp on the same lake that faces the other way. Best Regards, from Alaska
@@BetterAircraftFabric I'm pretty new to flying floats. When testing initial setup I had lowered the gear to taxi up onto the beach - figured I would accelerate a bit for momentum as the sand was soft. No can do! The wheels made so much drag it was impossible to gain any speed, and the floats were doing their best submarine impression.
@@mr-uc4me Hi, well, with wind That Strong I would face into the wind on the water at all times. Never turn more than 45 degrees away from the wind and be sure to use control input to sail and keep the upwind wing down correctly. There is a good wide paved ramp out of the water next to the "Lake Air Complex" and that would have been the one to use on that day. That small narrow ramp from where the camera position is at Lake Hood is super dangerous to try and use on a day like it was in the video. Best Regards from Anchorage!
@@BetterAircraftFabric You are correct. He was obviously trying to get to a ramp. The high power U-turn in those winds was foolish. Everybody thinks he was trying to take off. Nothing about this video supports the idea that he was trying to take off.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila Yeah, right. The camera-position is at a narrow old ramp out of the water into a gravel tiedown area. There is a nice wide big concrete ramp on the other side of the lake near the so called "Lake Air Complex" and that one would have been upwind of him. I sure as heck would not try to turn downwind on floats on a windy day like that.
Shut off and sail backwards...bout all you can do besides not going out in the 1st place?
Big time YES: Shut it off and Sail backwards in such a situation is about the 1st thing I learned about Floatplanes in 1992 ... and did you notice this is an Amphib taxing around with the wheels down? -What a show.
I missed the wheels down part...small screen watching on phon e
Gear up before you start a take off?? It's been 45 years since I flew floats but I do remember that water taxing was a big learning curve.
Nice going, Chester. I'm not even float plane rated and even I know you have to have the wheels retracted when you're in the water. Even Snoopy knows to put his bowl in the dog house before he takes off to try and shoot down the Red Baron. Combine that with improper aileron inputs in the wind, you get to be the provider of a viral video on U-Tube.
You don't have to have the wheels retracted in the water. Perfectly normal to go up or down a ramp. All indications suggest that he planned on powering it up a ramp before he stupidly tried powering it around instead of sailing it.
Did this cause any damage, or could he potentially try again in a few hours (assuming the winds die down)? That’s gotta be rough on the engine for the prop to churn on water, right?
I would say legally he needs at least a propstrike inspection. That is "a bigger affair". Also I wonder if the blades of the prop got bend in this...Its a miracle that it did not go on its back.
Would that be considered a prop strike that requires an engine overhaul?
That is a good question. I bet that prop had bend blades after that.
I didn’t think of engine drivetrain shock, damage. Only thought about the propeller being damaged. Not shabby considering I didn’t stay at a holiday inn last night.
I think it needs an inspection for " sudden engine stoppage." I have an Airframes cert but took a fair amount of powerplants courses too. If the prop tips are bent for sure the crankshaft and probably more would have to be removed and daily indicator inspected. It was a very expensive lesson. I just do flight Sim. I'm a chicken lol
per current eng manufacturer service instructions it requires a teardown and crank inspection at the minimum
Ouch
Plane was doing fine until the pilot started pulling and pushing levers.
Oh my. I don't know squat but I know that "that blows" (no pun intended). Stay safe out there kids.
Stunning capture! May I feature this takeoff mishap in one of my next episodes? Of course with a link back to your original video. All the best to you!
More training, alot more!
Pilot is lucky that it didn't turtle completely.
"Okeh, back to the pier!"
Could he have kept that thing on the water? I forget my ground taxi wind controls off the top of my head, but I think it's dive into the wind? Looked to me that his elevator was not deflected enough in anticipation of the directional gust. I sure wouldn't go flying now that he in essence had a prop strike. Not as much damage as striking the ground but I'll bet there is something not great. Could very well be a 10,000 mistake at best.
Dive away from the wind - you don't want the wind picking up the tail or lifting the windward wing
Ao virar de cauda para o vento deveria ter mantido o manche "picado" e se puder subir o trem de pouso ajuda....rsrs
How much does it cost to repair the engine and prop?
Just a new prop is many thousands of $.
Don’t forget the wing
I've seen that happen on Lake Hood several times
Wow, great catch. Would you be okay with me featuring this in my series Weekly Dose of Aviation? Of course you will be credited both in the video and in the description. Thanks!
no. stop being a UA-cam bottom feeder just living off of reposting and resharing other people's content as your own for your own financial gain.
It doesn’t look like he used correct yoke input for taxiing in the wind.
Push and turn into the wind and if the wind is from behind push and turn away. Looks like used opposite aileron input and up elevator with power to keep the tail down instead of down elevator for the wind to push it down. Prop was wasn’t quick enough or enough to keep the tail down.
Ruddering toward the high wing when in the air. Not when water taxiing.
Keep trying until you get airborne. What could go wrong up there?
He wasn't trying to get airborne.
it is better to be on the lake; wishing you were in the air ; then to be in the lake wishing that you were on the lake.
Is that a plow turn?
Wonder if the floats were empty also!
And Andy and any windy condition you don’t wanna be out in the middle of the water with your gear down you wait till you get approximately 50 m from the deck and then you put your gear down then power into the ramp
Also, you can't taxi or takeoff with your wheels down in an Amphib. Dozens of airplanes took off that day; he was the only UA-cam video..
Who’s da U-boat captain
Good joke, for real.
🤣 in stitches
that probably diddn’t even hurt the engine but it is never getting logged anyways…
Ouch captian crunch..
Heavy on the floats. Probly needs to be pumped out. , Looks like my ol stomping grounds Lake Hood Alaska.
More money than brains… what a waste of a perfectly good engine. Beautiful airplane-hopefully it’s been sold to someone more competent.
lol, no ailerons control... and gear down.
If at first you don't succeed (with gear down in the water) ADD MORE POWER. Pfff... physics are beneath me. Literally.
I think this is submersible airplane and the pilot was trying to get it under!
Ouch. Nice prop strike...
Ok, I will never fly or own a float...
I guess thats totally different to land planes.
"it wasnt THAT hard of a strike mr AP"
Why would you turn away from the headwind?
To get to your parking spot behind you. Sailing would have been a much better idea than a power turn in these wind conditions, though.
This is why you use a CHECKLIST
Is that considered a prop strike ?
Well….. that prop was toast before he tipped it over into the water
should also point out if you do a left turn you wont be fighting yourself.
Does that brake the propeller blades?
They usually get damaged in an event like that. Depends on quite some factors, but it sure aint good for engine or Prop.
I figured it is probably a lot worse than hitting dirt or a rock with a lawn mower. So much higher RPM's.
Even if it doesn't, it requires an engine tear-down inspection because things in the gear train might shear or the crank might get bent. Which probably costs more than my pickup.
sudden stop = engine tear down, inspect crank shaft, replace crank if required, replace prop
prop strike with no stop = check crank run-out and replace prop if needed
im just guessing at the moment, not a mechanic
BREAK = to make something broken
BRAKE = a device to slow something down or the act of slowing something down
I’m pretty sure you meant break in your question 🤷🏽♂️
is this considered a prop strike
Should have done more sim time like SkyKing!
Better to have the gear down on a water takeoff, than on a water landing...
Do you really think he was trying to take off? 🤣
“Hang On Ronnie!!!!”
LOL
Why do that?
Brilliant Capture. May I use a part of this video in my next video? A proper credit and a link to the original video will be given. Thanks.
Ouch!!😮
There are more planes in the ocean than there are boats in the sky.
How much do you think that cost?
probably 60K at least, possibly just an engine teardown and new prop 20k ~
Is this what you mean with entertainment..?
As pilots we tend to be very sarcastic. But seriously; this video is absolutely great to show Seaplane beginners what not to do. It illustrates a whole bunch of things.
When you can afford Whips but can’t understand them …
Wips
Pilot get more dual! Why do you have the gear down? Weekend pilot I presume! You would had been issued a Disapproval on my flight evaluation!
Because he was planning on powering it up a ramp if he could just get it turned around. He failed miserably at that last part.
Painful to watch! Me: yelling "idiot....STOP!" No doubt the same words spoken by everyone else who sees this.
That’s what happens when you don’t take off INTO the wind
Do you really think he was trying to take off? 🤣
floats flooded from get go! homer simpson!
Stick with a wave runner
Preflight checks hmmmm
Do you really think he was trying to take off? 🤣
Oops, innit?
That was an expensive FU.
Thant's going to hurt the ego and the bank account.
Airplanes make lousy submarines
Ooops!
Tail wind
Prop strike
Fuck they shouldn’t be flying on a windy day like that.
Wow all the float plane experts coming outta nowhere😂
Fool
Some people should not fly.