This video is awesome Andrew well thought out and in explaining all the components and their function. As you pioneered the pneumatic coupler to fix the bowden tube issues Micro Swiss listened and implemented your idea. Kudoos for that. This video is a game changer and can set up a lot of makers for printing higher spec filaments. Thank you for sharing. Greetings from the Netherlands.
Excellent, I just came up with the same solution for a ender 3e upgrade. Adding dual z with timing belt. And went with slice c-e heatbreak plus copper hotend, silicone boot, boron nitride paste all for about $83.00 on their site. Rated for 350 C. Looking at alternative upper ends be wary, almost all advertized "hot ends" from china incorperate ptfe tubing all the way through hot end to nozzle. Thanks for the link to compression fitting just ordered it. Woo hoo!
Awesome breakdown of going all-metal. For the two anchor screws, going titanium will further reduce heat transfer since as it is, lots of heat will go through them and into the heatsink.
I have seen videos on removing the screws and it made next to zero difference. I don't think those screws are a massive deal. I have tested printing with and without them with no noticeable difference myself. However I do think replacing them with a less conductive metal would be a good compromise if someone wants them but wants as little loss as possible. To be clear I'm not arguing,the screws do cause heat loss. Just from what I have seen in videos and real world testing is they don't seem to make a difference in print quality or substantial increase in heatsink Temps. I also haven't repeated that test with ABS or PC. The elevated Temps could prove otherwise.
Interesting, wouldn't the 2 additional screws be better in titanium as they provide quite an additional thermal path to the heatsink nullify partly the function of the titanium heat break. A heat transfer test would confirm the shunting effect of the 2 additional screws.
Awesome but where did you get the titanium heartbreak? Yet to find a good one, ended up using a mellow bi metal one. Debated using a V6 M7 throat and cutting the threads
I have been going much the same route with my Ender 3v2. Copper heat block, bi metal titanium heartbreak. But you did miss or gloss over a couple important points. First, all the doing and re doing of the heartbreak into the heat sink. Just screw put it and the nozzle into the heat block first, then attach the heat sink. No reading of grub screws all the time! Also, with the stock thermistor you still shouldn’t exceed about 250 to 260 degrees because the ptfe covered leads of the thermistor are clamped against the heat block and can’t take anything higher! But you can get a thermistor from gulf coast robotics that is mounted in a little screw in brass fitting that goes in the screw hole that holds the thermistor. It is rated to 300 degrees. You do have to change the thermistor type in marlin firmware though. Also, be sure to do a new PID tune after making ANY of these changes to be sure the temperature is controlled correctly. And the thermistor sticks out a bit further than the normal one, so you may have to make some minor changes to fan shrouds for clearance. Maybe you should make an updated video that has all this stuff in it!
I'd like to see the results of a few long prints. Sure, the all-titanium heatbreak won't absorb heat from the block quickly. But when it does, it won't transfer the built up heat to the heatsink. I'm concerned this will result in heat creep.
@@andrewesquivel Following your stream I did some research of my own and found the tapered thread on a MK8 hot end is a 1/8 inch NPT thread, not a 1/8 inch BPS thread, but they can probably be used interchangeably, the thread pitch is the same but the profile is different. NPT the peaks and valleys of the threads are flat. In BSP, they are rounded. Secondly, the NPT angle of the thread is 60 degrees and the BSP angle is 55 degrees. I got some brass and stainless steel compression fittings from China for my Ender 3 v2. I change the hot end to a Slice Engineering Copperhead, so that I could save money reusing the MK8 heat sink without tapping it. The combination has worked great, no slippage at all, I have the retraction is down to 2mm. The prints are the best I have ever produced, and bonus is a longer tube life, no external wear and no heat deterioration with the all metal hot end From rskl's comment (on another another clip) I might change the brass ferrules to ptfe so that it's less likely to damage the Capricorn tubing Andrew your work is great, seems nobody else has done the research on this, I think these couplers are the way of the future
@@michaellim6292 edit: are you two referring to the heat break thread that goes into the heater block? I'm trying to find a compression fitting that holds the PTFE tube in place inside the hotend. (The stock one has a little teeth inside and a plastic sleeve you press down to release the tube.) I don't know what search terms to look for, and what thread dimensions I need. PTFE tubing for printers is 4mm OD. Are they M10 thread? (This is for the hot end that came with my Ender 3V2, I think a mk8?) --- original: I am having trouble finding the type of couplers being discussed. Are they pneumatic couplers? Or should I be looking in plumbing? Did you have to drill out the middle of the fittings you found? (Sorry for all the questions!)
It should be pointed out that having the Teflon tube go into the heat block isn't a new idea. The Original Jhead hot end was made out of a rigid high temp PTFE rod that was machined into the shell of the Jhead. The heater was screwed into a 'heat break' (actually it was just a threaded rod that was drilled out to accept teflon tube), and this was screwed into the bottom of the Jhead body. The original Jheads used a power resistor as the heating element. The max temperature of the original Jhead was to be limited to about 235C (was sometimes pushed to 240), making them suitable for only PLA and ABS. A fan was usually required to cool the PTFE body of the Jhead (which had 'fins' machined into it to act as a heat sink). So the Jhead was actually a 'plastic' hot end (Teflon being a kind of polmar ). There was a semi-metal hotend made in Australia, that was similar to the Jhead, with a PTFE tube liner, and there is now the E3D-Lite as well. All of these are good for PLA and ABS. For many, this is good enough. Some PETG filament will print at 235-240C, but most work better at 250C, so an all metal hotend (No PTFE past the heat sink) is recommended to print this material. Stainless steel is also a suitable material for the heat break, and many heat breaks use a combination of stainless steel and copper. The screws that hold the heater block to the heat sink are often left out in the belief that they will cause heat creep, however you can get stainless steel screws to eliminate this issue. As for the heat block, there are copper alloys that are just as good for thermal transfer, and are stronger than pure copper (also cheaper!). Brass and Bronze and Al-Bronze come to mind. You should put thermal past on the heat break where it goes into the heat sink, and on the threads going into the heat block. Some people put paste on the screw threads as well.
Agreed. I follow alot of your posts. Your followers and yourself could benefit from affiliate links. Alternatively, maybe just mention where you sourced your parts? Are you trying not to upset your MicroSwiss relationship?
I avoid affiliate links all together. It's a conflict of interest. The only business I have with microswiss is when I pay them to make me something. That being said, most of the time I don't link is because 90% of this stuff comes from alliexpress and their links go dead or they change what is sold in the link all the time. They are super unreliable in that regard. I prefer to say the brand and model of a thing so people can search it, which usually yields more accurate results. The heat break I got at TH3D The nozzle and heater block I got from Mellow on alliexpress The compression fitting are something I'm hoping to import and provide easy access to here in the USA to my viewers. They are undranded, but are 1/8th Inch BSPT to 4mm single ferrule compression fittings
@@andrewesquivel Awesome response sir. I have same type of aliexpress fittings and have tapped a few heatbreaks for them. Finding reliable, lower cost components for legacy type hotends is not easy. Thanks.
I got one of the stainless/copper ones from Mellow. Definitely saw an increase in heat creep and frequent clogging when using >3mm of retraction. Part of the issue with that one is that the "all metal" part still lets the bowden tube go pretty far down into the heatsink. Nowhere near the heat block, but still far enough down to where the amount of heat creep can be an issue at the heatbreak/bowden junction. A BMG-style extruder helped a lot there, but it still needs more tweaking. I'll put together a video when I actually get back to making videos again.
@@swolebro I haven't had an issue with my mellow one, doesn't matter what retraction I've used I haven't had clogs, am using a BMG extruder with direct drive
@@rentaspoon219 BMG in a bowden setup here. Cut a slight clearance groove in it for the Z screw and put it in the same place as the OEM one. Of all the upgrades I tried, that one was the most beneficial. The second best was a new fan shroud (Thingiverse item 3419531), that channels the air directly over the cold end, rather than the default Ender 3 one, which blows air all over. I'm pretty sure that one was needed since my OEM fan died and I replaced it with one that was not quite as strong, but much much quieter.
Sorry to say this but those last 2 screws are useless, as you know well the Steel of those screws and the titanium from the heatbrake will damage the copper block anyway as both are harder, and instead of protect anything you'll transfer heat to the cooler, just let them out and you'll see great improvements
This video is awesome Andrew well thought out and in explaining all the components and their function.
As you pioneered the pneumatic coupler to fix the bowden tube issues Micro Swiss listened and implemented your idea. Kudoos for that.
This video is a game changer and can set up a lot of makers for printing higher spec filaments.
Thank you for sharing.
Greetings from the Netherlands.
Thanks for all the information, i'm learning a ton thanks to you. Very informative, please keep going :)
10:32 you can get titanium bolts, these may help reduce heat transfer
Those two M3 screws should also be made of titanium to prevent heat conduction, would be a nice addition for the video
Nice tutorial, could you link some of those components? Thanks
Nope🤣
Just the video I needed on this topic!
Excellent, I just came up with the same solution for a ender 3e upgrade. Adding dual z with timing belt. And went with slice c-e heatbreak plus copper hotend, silicone boot, boron nitride paste all for about $83.00 on their site. Rated for 350 C.
Looking at alternative upper ends be wary, almost all advertized "hot ends" from china incorperate ptfe tubing all the way through hot end to nozzle. Thanks for the link to compression fitting just ordered it. Woo hoo!
Thanks for guidance. But Google as I may I can’t find the same compression fitting using the description given. 🙏🏻x
Thank you, very informative.
Awesome breakdown of going all-metal. For the two anchor screws, going titanium will further reduce heat transfer since as it is, lots of heat will go through them and into the heatsink.
I have seen videos on removing the screws and it made next to zero difference. I don't think those screws are a massive deal.
I have tested printing with and without them with no noticeable difference myself.
However I do think replacing them with a less conductive metal would be a good compromise if someone wants them but wants as little loss as possible.
To be clear I'm not arguing,the screws do cause heat loss. Just from what I have seen in videos and real world testing is they don't seem to make a difference in print quality or substantial increase in heatsink Temps. I also haven't repeated that test with ABS or PC. The elevated Temps could prove otherwise.
Interesting, wouldn't the 2 additional screws be better in titanium as they provide quite an additional thermal path to the heatsink nullify partly the function of the titanium heat break. A heat transfer test would confirm the shunting effect of the 2 additional screws.
Awesome but where did you get the titanium heartbreak? Yet to find a good one, ended up using a mellow bi metal one.
Debated using a V6 M7 throat and cutting the threads
I got mine from th3d
can this print speed above 150ms?
I have been going much the same route with my Ender 3v2. Copper heat block, bi metal titanium heartbreak. But you did miss or gloss over a couple important points. First, all the doing and re doing of the heartbreak into the heat sink. Just screw put it and the nozzle into the heat block first, then attach the heat sink. No reading of grub screws all the time!
Also, with the stock thermistor you still shouldn’t exceed about 250 to 260 degrees because the ptfe covered leads of the thermistor are clamped against the heat block and can’t take anything higher! But you can get a thermistor from gulf coast robotics that is mounted in a little screw in brass fitting that goes in the screw hole that holds the thermistor. It is rated to 300 degrees. You do have to change the thermistor type in marlin firmware though. Also, be sure to do a new PID tune after making ANY of these changes to be sure the temperature is controlled correctly. And the thermistor sticks out a bit further than the normal one, so you may have to make some minor changes to fan shrouds for clearance.
Maybe you should make an updated video that has all this stuff in it!
How to connect bowden tube to this?
Still can find only heatbreaks witch are too short for having nozzel at same height. Speaking of stock Tronxy X5SA.
I'd like to see the results of a few long prints. Sure, the all-titanium heatbreak won't absorb heat from the block quickly. But when it does, it won't transfer the built up heat to the heatsink. I'm concerned this will result in heat creep.
Only 1 way to find out! I plan a super long print test on the Ender 5 as a test and proof of concept soon.
Can you also talk about suitable thermistors and heaters?
In an upcoming video I will be going over that subject for the Ender 5 build
Andrew did you drill out the coupler? as the Bowden tube will not go into through a standard 1/8" BSP coupler
Yes. The compression fitting require you to drill out the center
@@andrewesquivel Following your stream I did some research of my own and found the tapered thread on a MK8 hot end is a 1/8 inch NPT thread, not a 1/8 inch BPS thread, but they can probably be used interchangeably, the thread pitch is the same but the profile is different. NPT the peaks and valleys of the threads are flat. In BSP, they are rounded. Secondly, the NPT angle of the thread is 60 degrees and the BSP angle is 55 degrees.
I got some brass and stainless steel compression fittings from China for my Ender 3 v2. I change the hot end to a Slice Engineering Copperhead, so that I could save money reusing the MK8 heat sink without tapping it. The combination has worked great, no slippage at all, I have the retraction is down to 2mm. The prints are the best I have ever produced, and bonus is a longer tube life, no external wear and no heat deterioration with the all metal hot end
From rskl's comment (on another another clip) I might change the brass ferrules to ptfe so that it's less likely to damage the Capricorn tubing
Andrew your work is great, seems nobody else has done the research on this, I think these couplers are the way of the future
@@michaellim6292 edit: are you two referring to the heat break thread that goes into the heater block?
I'm trying to find a compression fitting that holds the PTFE tube in place inside the hotend. (The stock one has a little teeth inside and a plastic sleeve you press down to release the tube.)
I don't know what search terms to look for, and what thread dimensions I need. PTFE tubing for printers is 4mm OD. Are they M10 thread?
(This is for the hot end that came with my Ender 3V2, I think a mk8?)
--- original:
I am having trouble finding the type of couplers being discussed. Are they pneumatic couplers? Or should I be looking in plumbing? Did you have to drill out the middle of the fittings you found?
(Sorry for all the questions!)
It should be pointed out that having the Teflon tube go into the heat block isn't a new idea. The Original Jhead hot end was made out of a rigid high temp PTFE rod that was machined into the shell of the Jhead. The heater was screwed into a 'heat break' (actually it was just a threaded rod that was drilled out to accept teflon tube), and this was screwed into the bottom of the Jhead body. The original Jheads used a power resistor as the heating element. The max temperature of the original Jhead was to be limited to about 235C (was sometimes pushed to 240), making them suitable for only PLA and ABS. A fan was usually required to cool the PTFE body of the Jhead (which had 'fins' machined into it to act as a heat sink). So the Jhead was actually a 'plastic' hot end (Teflon being a kind of polmar ). There was a semi-metal hotend made in Australia, that was similar to the Jhead, with a PTFE tube liner, and there is now the E3D-Lite as well. All of these are good for PLA and ABS. For many, this is good enough. Some PETG filament will print at 235-240C, but most work better at 250C, so an all metal hotend (No PTFE past the heat sink) is recommended to print this material.
Stainless steel is also a suitable material for the heat break, and many heat breaks use a combination of stainless steel and copper. The screws that hold the heater block to the heat sink are often left out in the belief that they will cause heat creep, however you can get stainless steel screws to eliminate this issue.
As for the heat block, there are copper alloys that are just as good for thermal transfer, and are stronger than pure copper (also cheaper!). Brass and Bronze and Al-Bronze come to mind.
You should put thermal past on the heat break where it goes into the heat sink, and on the threads going into the heat block. Some people put paste on the screw threads as well.
Great video with the exception that there is no links to parts.....especially the pneumatic coupling
www.amazon.com/dp/B09QKN2NR1
where can I get the coupler and compresion fitting?
www.amazon.com/dp/B09QKN2NR1
Materials please =D Just broke my aluminum heat break =D
Agreed. I follow alot of your posts. Your followers and yourself could benefit from affiliate links. Alternatively, maybe just mention where you sourced your parts? Are you trying not to upset your MicroSwiss relationship?
I avoid affiliate links all together. It's a conflict of interest.
The only business I have with microswiss is when I pay them to make me something.
That being said, most of the time I don't link is because 90% of this stuff comes from alliexpress and their links go dead or they change what is sold in the link all the time. They are super unreliable in that regard. I prefer to say the brand and model of a thing so people can search it, which usually yields more accurate results.
The heat break I got at TH3D
The nozzle and heater block I got from Mellow on alliexpress
The compression fitting are something I'm hoping to import and provide easy access to here in the USA to my viewers. They are undranded, but are 1/8th Inch BSPT to 4mm single ferrule compression fittings
@@andrewesquivel Awesome response sir. I have same type of aliexpress fittings and have tapped a few heatbreaks for them.
Finding reliable, lower cost components for legacy type hotends is not easy. Thanks.
@@andrewesquivel thanks
Are you aware of a bi-metallic heat-break that fits a MK8?
Yes! I believe Triangle labs makes some. I have yet to test any, but certainly something worth looking into.
I got one of the stainless/copper ones from Mellow. Definitely saw an increase in heat creep and frequent clogging when using >3mm of retraction. Part of the issue with that one is that the "all metal" part still lets the bowden tube go pretty far down into the heatsink. Nowhere near the heat block, but still far enough down to where the amount of heat creep can be an issue at the heatbreak/bowden junction. A BMG-style extruder helped a lot there, but it still needs more tweaking. I'll put together a video when I actually get back to making videos again.
@@swolebro I haven't had an issue with my mellow one, doesn't matter what retraction I've used I haven't had clogs, am using a BMG extruder with direct drive
@@rentaspoon219 BMG in a bowden setup here. Cut a slight clearance groove in it for the Z screw and put it in the same place as the OEM one. Of all the upgrades I tried, that one was the most beneficial.
The second best was a new fan shroud (Thingiverse item 3419531), that channels the air directly over the cold end, rather than the default Ender 3 one, which blows air all over. I'm pretty sure that one was needed since my OEM fan died and I replaced it with one that was not quite as strong, but much much quieter.
Sorry to say this but those last 2 screws are useless, as you know well the Steel of those screws and the titanium from the heatbrake will damage the copper block anyway as both are harder, and instead of protect anything you'll transfer heat to the cooler, just let them out and you'll see great improvements