Thanks so much David! Yeah, I can’t fault you for that. Like I said, Mizuno better feeling on good strikes, the P790 perhaps a little better feeling on mis-strikes. But the JPX921 is an awesome iron!
Just bought the Callaway Apex 21 irons after playing with different Mizuno iron sets for 20 years. Love the way they hit and feel, but I’m still getting used to them from a distance and playability standpoint.
The rare Mizuno defector. Interesting! I think that speaks volumes about the new Apex ‘21 irons. But yeah, you bring up the challenge. Dialing in on that distance. I imagine you’ll have to re-gap your clubs and establish new yardage averages.
I've hit many 7 irons in my day and with the exception of a cart path or 2, I have never gotten 15-20 yards of roll out on a 7 iron. I'm lucky if get that on my driver. Who really would want that in a 7 iron anyway?
Hey! Apex looks like the clear winner here for you. Efficiency, launch, height, and that spin number is way better. Spin will always be much higher on the course versus off mats, anyway. Very consistent really with all of them with dispersion. I know you don't want to sacrifice distance, but with your delivery you're really only going to get better spin, height, and land angle with more loft. Have you tested any blades or traditional-lofted cavity-backs?
Was just fitted today. Was down to the p790s vs the apex. The apex did feel better and sounded better to me but ultimately chose the p790s. The look and performance was better for me. And honestly liked the look better than the apex. Each his own.
Yeah, Mizuno feel is good. And that’s what they’re known for. Out of curiosity, your Callaway irons, are they the brand new 2021 Apex or the 2019 Apex?
@@MattWilliamsGolf I'm actually using the Callaway Steelhead XR's. I was fitted for them about three years ago and just started looking for new irons. Trying to figure out what irons provide the best combination of performance and forgiveness for a 10 handicapper. But I was extremely impressed with the JPX 921 Forged.
@@steverupert6988 Ok, well the Mizuno’s are amazing irons. Truly amazing. That said, before you make your decision, make sure and check out the Callaway Apex ‘21 (not 2019) irons. If you still go with Mizuno, nothing wrong with that. But I think you’ll be even more impressed possibly with the new Apex!
I haven’t watched the finished video back. I hope loft didn’t hit the cutting room floor. But if it did, the Callaway and TM are the same loft with only the Mizuno being half a degree weaker. Not much of a difference, but certainly a difference nonetheless. But even with that, the idea is to just give golfers in general a comparison of how they perform side by side, differing lofts and all. But that’s a great point Mark.
Awesome video! I really liked how you provided the thought process behind the rankings. I think some disagree with how you define the categories. For me, forgiveness is how consistent of an outcome for bad feeling hits. Helps me try to always hit in the center, without giving up distance on miss hits. By the way, I bag the 921 forged!
By the way I own the JPX 921 Forged just actually picked them up after waiting 8 weeks to deliver. I won’t hate on you for not liking the Mizuno’s to each is own. Great review though!
Hahahaha. You’re a good man Marc. Thanks for not holding it against me. That’s the thing about all golf equipment. Not all golfers will experience the same result, and not all golfers are equally suited for each golf club.
@@steverupert6988 I am a 7.5. And I haven’t made the switch yet at all. In fact, I don’t think I’ll be gaming either of the three irons in this review. I’m not telling you not to go with Mizuno. They are amazing irons. If you go that route, I doubt you’ll be disappointed. I’m just saying, give the Callaway Apex ‘21 a serious look before you pull the trigger.
Remember that the first round of the Mizuno you didn't know where center was and you said you hit them all to the left. You have 5 balls that went left but were within 5 yards of one another then you have the 2nd set of 5 that also have great consistency. I think from a dispersion standpoint, the Mizuno's are the hands down winner. Ball flight...the Apex was a little higher, but a lot of that can be down to strike as well. I have the lefty combo set of the JPX 921 Forged ....called the SEL. I have a similar swing speed to you, but am not seeing those carry distances with my 7 iron. Maybe need to swap out the shafts for the Dynamic Gold 105. Believe they came with KBS S-Taper 120
Interesting!! I tried all 3 the P790s and Apex felt ok. I used to have TM Rsi1s and the polymer started coming out of the slots I didn’t like the feel / sound of the 790s and not sure about the hollow head / slot in the Bottom All good clubs Looks are personal but I think the Mizunos are stunning but the Apex look more like a cavity back Personal preference Bought the JPX921 forged for looks, thinner top line accuracy, forgiveness, And most important of all - confidence LOL
Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I almost named Mizuno the best in the Looks category. They are absolutely stunning irons. And I do think I mentioned it in the video, but yes, many golfers, especially the better players, are going to appreciate that thinner top line that Mizuno offers over the other two. At the end of the day, this game we call golf is so unique. What performs best for one player, might not for another. The response from one player to a golf club, could be a totally different response from another. I absolutely love the Mizuno’s, so I’m glad you landed on them and are loving them!
We are testing those also in the new iron fitting for my wife on Tuesday.....as for this review the spinnumbers with a 7 iron would scare the hell out of me😱. Unless there is a high descent angle there is no change stopping them on a green (unless they are soaking wet 😇)
Yeah, the spin numbers don’t bother me at all for one reason. Watch a number of my videos before and after this, and you’ll see I have absolutely not problem generating enough spin. But on days where the ball striking is just not good, that’s what happens. But I keep filming in those conditions for two reasons: A.) Thats what my channel is for. I’m not the plus handicapper that is doing things with the equipment that you at home won’t be able to generate. B.) Even on bad ball striking days, I can still compare them because it’s equally bad for all of them. So even if spin is down that particular day, it’s consistently down across the board. So I can still see which club is spinning more, tighter dispersion, traveling further, fly higher, etc. ....... I’m so limited on filming times, that I don’t have the ability to just reshoot a review if I’m not on my A-game. So it gets released just the way it is. And I’m cool with that. Hopefully the review still helps. Even if it’s just sorting through some thoughts or crystallizing some of your own thinking.
@@MattWilliamsGolf totally understand 👍🏽I noticed with irons such as Apex incredible distance but less spin (maybe because of the stronger lofts) and than I worry about stopping balls on the green. I don’t need the distance and so I prefer irons with more traditional lofts. At this moment I play the JPX921 Tour (replaced my MP18 blades). Looking forward how my wife will find the Apex and especially the JPX 921 forged irons.😃
4:25 Spin has a lot to do with your natural shot shape. If you’re hitting draws it’ll spin less. Fades and straight shots will spin a little more. I have the Mizunos. My shafts give me a little more kick. I launch them a little higher(80-90ft) and generate about 54-5700 spin. Absolutely love the Mizunos.
THANK YOU for making this video. These are the exact 3 sets on my short list to try and buy in the next few months. Currently playing Rogue X. Wanting less offset and not as chunky/ thick top line.
You’re very welcome. Based on what you’re telling me you’re looking for, I would suggest that the Mizuno JPX921 Forged would be the iron for you. Only thing I would suggest is to be aware of that lie angle, and make sure it suits you.
I have a buddy who is a Mizuno lover and like most of them says that it’s the best feeling iron I’ll ever hit. Definitely going to test all 3 though so (will be aware of the lie angle) so I guess we shall see. Also, looking through the specs of the 3, I thought P790 had the least amount of offset? ...Apex having the most.
@@DrewKap Yeah, once someone is a Mizuno lover, it’s hard to talk them off it. Mizuno gamers defend their brand more than anyone else. You’re right though, Mizuno has a touch more offset than the P790. But the difference is very minimal. But I think you’ll appreciate the top line on the Mizuno more than the difference of offset would bother you.
Well... I went to my local golf store yesterday and hit the Apex 21 and JPX921 irons. Didn’t have P790 demo for LH golfers. Regardless, I’m almost certain I’ll be sticking with GI irons for now. Rude awaking for my swing and true testament as to how GI irons really help a golfer. I did like the way I hit the Apex DCB (just watched your video on those) but I have a fitting at Club Champion scheduled for this Saturday. Going to get specs nailed down and choose from there especially since the Apex are pricey. Good thing is that there are GI irons with less offset and thinner top lines which is what I really want.
@@DrewKap I loved the DCB. You may want to take a look at TM Sim2 Max and Ping G425. I bet you love the G425 irons. Here’s a video I did on a few GI irons! ua-cam.com/video/fy-q76MPz-g/v-deo.html
I play Mizuno T Zoid blades (30+ year old and yes I am looking for new irons). I love blades, just can't hit them as well or far any more. However, I want an iron that is forgiving on mis-hits i.e. not a huge sacrifice in distance and left to right...HOWEVER I want the feedback to "feel" that I mis-hit it. Also, I am not tied to any one club maker, I want what fits me best. I love my Mizunos but I also loved my Wilson Ultra 45's as well. I too like the thin top line look of blades and have a real tough time with the thicker top lines...they just don't look good to me.
I just ordered 921 forged after playing MP58’s for 7 years. Great feel. I tried the Apex. The 921 forged gave me about 15 yards more carry, 48 degree descent angle and good spin. Super straight but also very consistent distance control, which I think is more important for me. The last thing you want is a head that’s too hot and send ones 15 yards farther than average. I ordered a 921 hot metal pro 4 iron to replace my driving iron. Can’t wait!
@@deandesrosiers6857 Yeah, the 921 Forged are really consistent irons, which gives you a ton of confidence knowing what the result will be when you strike it well. And yes, the forged and hot metal pro's are a terrific combo set.
So, as I have found with my Srixons, I don't think you can trust the simulators all that much. I was getting crazy long numbers, but a lot of that was roll out after carry. I haven't had the opportunities you have to test clubs, but I think most of the distance clubs are designed to launch and fall with a sharper decent angle. They have low spin, but combined with the decent angle, they stop pretty well. The simulator numbers did not carry over to the course for me. For example, I had 186 carry 199 total for my 7 iron on the simulator. On the course, I was getting around 175 carry, and it was stopping within a few yards. I know some of this is temp and soft turf, but the way the ball descends, I just don't think simulators are very accurate outside of carry numbers. Would you agree?
That’s so hard to answer. I think with regards to “total distance”, yes. Because the total distance number is essentially a computer computing/simulating what the total would be given the spin, height, decent, speed, carry, etc. But the specific ball flight, that’s tracked via a “radar” of sorts. All the other numbers are tracked as soon as the ball takes flight, along with measuring what the club is doing at impact. Another thing that some club fitters will do, is change the settings so that you think the ball is flying further than it actually is. For instance, there is a “simulated” setting and also a “real” setting (for lack of a better word). In other words, Trackman actually tracking what the ball is doing versus tracking what the computer thinks it should do. Another tricky thing in settings is the ball settings. In Trackman for instance, there are about 9-12 different ball settings that change how it measures everything. So it all depends on how the fitters have the settings set. That said, for me, I always have it set at actual numbers, and at a “Premium” ball. Which actually goes conservative because I’m obviously hitting range balls. So that all said, I have to say Trackman is accurate depending on the settings. Everything except the “total distance” anyways.
@@JettyBuilder I unfortunately need to work with the setup I currently have. I’m not going to hit 50 ProV1’s out onto a range! Hahahaha. But it’s the best I can do until I get my own indoor simulator. That said, I still demo enough shots to draw some solid data and conclusions. At the end of the day, it’s still a decent way to test, review and compare clubs.
The total distance confuses me a bit , does the Trackman say these balls are releasing 15 yards after the carry ? I could be wrong but that doesn’t seem right. Am I missing something or am I not understanding Total distance??
3 wood spin rate (3500) and angle of decent averaging 40 degrees, that’s low and coming in hot! Typical spin rate and decent angle for a 7 iron should be 6000-7000 RPM and >45 degrees.
Yeah. I don’t get that either. Cuz if I fired these all at a green, they aren’t rolling out another 15 yards. Not at all. But, I include them in the numbers anyways. That’s why when I showed where they all landed, I only showed the carry distance. Perhaps on future reviews I may just only show carry, and just leave off the total distances.
@@tylerdobell2484 Yeah Tyler, I hear you man. Just not a good ball striking day. Nevertheless, if you look at a variety of my past club reviews, particularly like the Ping Blueprint, the Titleist T100 and T200, and others, you’ll see I normally have no problem getting 5,000-6,000 RPM. Just didn’t have the swing going well that day. Wasn’t getting my normal compression.
@@MattWilliamsGolf I enjoyed your thoughts on these irons... keep up the good work. BTW... The Blueprint and T100's should be higher spinning clubs due to their truer blade design.
@@2Bad. Thanks so much for the support. Yeah, I was just pointing out a couple. For instance, another good example for less of a blade or tour iron was the Srixon ZX5 where I was consistently over 6000 RPM. Its all good. Some days I got it. Some days I don’t. This was a “don’t got it” day, but still hopefully a helpful test for everyone looking at these irons.
Something seems wrong with your launch monitor. That spin rate for 7 irons is as if you're hitting each shot really thin. This may be how you hit perhaps? Trajectory looks a little low for a 7 iron which also might explain the extra distance as per your swing speeds.
You said you hit the first 5 shots with the Mizuno awful but it had the best dispersion and then rated it the least forgiving? Not following that logic.
Yeah, I thought about that too before I did my summary. But it turned out, I was hitting everything awful that day. So for me, forgiveness isn’t just dispersion, it’s also carry and feel with more emphasis on feel. I gauge forgiveness on the result in concert with how it felt. And on miss hits, the Mizuno felt the worst of the bunch. At the end of the day, they’re all pretty forgiving.
Yeah great question Joe. It’s hard to capture on a video review like this, but some of that was my personal feel based on how many good or bad swings I felt like I had and how it performed. I also was fracturing distance, in addition to dispersion, when looking at how it performed on miss hits. With the Apex, I still got respectable distance on miss hits versus the others (particularly the Mizuno). Lastly, I add feel to the consideration on forgiveness. (Some people disagree with this.) If an iron feels absolutely dreadful on a miss hit, that to me doesn’t give as much of a sense on forgiveness as an iron that still feels decent on a miss hit. But your question is a really valid one.
Can I ask what exactly is different about the mizuno stock lie angles compared to other manufacturers? Haven't heard that before. Fitting center didn't have the 921's in stock, so I got fit with a ping i210 and ordered those specs(+.50 -1 flat) in the forged. Hope I didn't make a mistake there.
Yeah, generally Mizuno is often flatter than most other manufacturers. In this case it was a full 1 degree less than the P790 and 0.5 degree less than the Apex. Which means that on the Mizuno, the toe sticks up a little more than the other two irons. It sounds to me, if you got your adjustment correct here, that your adjustment to the Ping i210 will make the lie angle match the Mizuno. How did they land on that lie angle for you? What did they use? Or did you just walk in and tell them you like the JPX921 Forged so they matched that for you?
@@MattWilliamsGolf Half inch long -1 degree flat is correct. I specifically asked for those those irons, the guy at the store did a great job walking me through and changing out all the options he had. I hit roughly 30 balls with three different irons on their foresight system to dial it in. Tape on the clubface and sole confirmed the fit. Perfectly Center struck ball marks on the face and dead center on the lie board sticker. I feel extremely confident with that fit for the Ping i210, g425 and Callaway Apex pro 7 irons I hit.
Nice review. Callaway Apex was the standout for me and it was not really close. Most consistent and has the best overall look. P790 is a non-starter - feel is not great and it is chunky. 921 Forged blade length looks strange. The reviewer is looking at spin off mats and that is not reliable. (He also has a swing dominated by his arms which often includes skipping the transition and brings steepness.) I wouldn’t judge the spin based on this session. On course the Apex spin bumps up and is consistent. The shape, size and feel are as good as it gets. If you want more speed and power you’ve got to let it build and get that weight shift naturally, not forced. Shawn Clement demonstrates it well here. ua-cam.com/video/bdCfgvOKTo4/v-deo.html
Enjoyed your video. I’m drawn to TM irons but do also prefer the P770 irons look over the P790 ones. In your opinion do u think a high handicapper (20) could play with P770’s or are they too small/hard and not forgiving atall? Just interested in your opinion as will hopefully improve but wasn’t sure if only the P790 are the ones suited for higher handicap players in the P range. Thanks
Yeah, honestly Jonathan, I would go with P790. Just a couple years ago I was nearly a 20 handicap. And I couldn’t fathom gaming the P770 when I was. The P790 is absolutely the club for you. Honestly, you should give the SiM2 irons a look too if you like TaylorMade. Just keep an open mind and hit both the P790 and SiM2 irons. See which one performs the best for you. And don’t just hit one iron. Try to hit several, like the PW, 7-iron and 5-iron. Then compare both models to each other. Best of luck! Let me know how it goes.
I just bought the Apex 21 DCB irons. They are not much bigger than the regular Apex 21's. So why not go for the extra forgiveness. I finished golf league last year as a 3 handicap. So don't let people get in your head about what clubs you should be playing. Just pick the best ckibs for you. I played Cobra forged tech Black one lenght for the last couple of years. The Apex 21 DCB I just seem to hit a little better. Not trying to be that guy, but I feel if you were to shorten your back swing. You would have more control and possibly even hit it the same.or farther.
Lol, no appreciate the feedback. And yes, there are loads of low handicap players that still play fairly chunk CB’s. The top end of that backswing is absolutely something I’m working on. It’ll get shortened up here soon. One thing at a time. Believe me though, no one is in my head on club selection. I’ll choose based on what works and tests best for me. This particular test wasn’t for myself really, although I would be happy to game any of them. It was, and generally is, merely for my audience. To get an average golfer’s perspective.
just tested the Apex against the JPX921. In terms of feel the Mizunos are way ahead of the Apex. Really like butter, while the Apex have a dull feeling (for me). So I cant really follow the review..
Yeah, that’s the interesting (and cool) thing about golf equipment. The feel, feedback, response to a golf club can vary between golfers. For me, the Apex felt softer than Mizuno. But I know for many, Mizuno is the best feeling iron out there. There is no wrong answer. Just one player telling another what they felt while testing them.
Appreciate your feedback. That said, I showed the ball flights on the video. I showed the landing dispersion. If you don’t get anything from that, then I’m sure me not knowing where center was on the track man isn’t the problem. Again, thanks for the wonderful feedback.
@@MattWilliamsGolf Understand what you're saying but there's a tight view market and baseline direction and 5 minutes of warm up is the basics for being watchable, otherwise you'll have hundreds of people thinking what I am and just writing you off never watching or sharing. Trust me you needed to hear this.
Admittedly a bad swing day...getting little spin and hitting it all over the face...gives the club with the tightest dispersion the lowest ranking for forgiveness????
I don't think your analysis of Feel is correct. You stated something along the lines that mishits with the Mizuno didn't feel good. That is the point, the club is meant to tell you if you have a mishit. Otherwise get a Callaway with lots of Tungsten low down giving elevation but less feel.
Feel is very subjective. And I try and mention this in my videos. That some players like a club that delivers a strong signal on miss-hits. I personally do not. I can tell by a variety of other factors if I miss it. I also generally go by softness on solid centered strikes as well. But I think you make a spot on valid point.
Great video. I just switched from the p790 to Mizuno. They’re awesome feeling clubs.
Thanks so much David! Yeah, I can’t fault you for that. Like I said, Mizuno better feeling on good strikes, the P790 perhaps a little better feeling on mis-strikes. But the JPX921 is an awesome iron!
Just bought the Callaway Apex 21 irons after playing with different Mizuno iron sets for 20 years. Love the way they hit and feel, but I’m still getting used to them from a distance and playability standpoint.
The rare Mizuno defector. Interesting! I think that speaks volumes about the new Apex ‘21 irons. But yeah, you bring up the challenge. Dialing in on that distance. I imagine you’ll have to re-gap your clubs and establish new yardage averages.
I've hit many 7 irons in my day and with the exception of a cart path or 2, I have never gotten 15-20 yards of roll out on a 7 iron. I'm lucky if get that on my driver. Who really would want that in a 7 iron anyway?
Carl Kratzburgh.
Hey! Apex looks like the clear winner here for you. Efficiency, launch, height, and that spin number is way better. Spin will always be much higher on the course versus off mats, anyway. Very consistent really with all of them with dispersion. I know you don't want to sacrifice distance, but with your delivery you're really only going to get better spin, height, and land angle with more loft. Have you tested any blades or traditional-lofted cavity-backs?
Fantastic Review..! Thanks for sharing. Very in-depth Sir… Thank You..! 🍻
Was just fitted today. Was down to the p790s vs the apex. The apex did feel better and sounded better to me but ultimately chose the p790s. The look and performance was better for me. And honestly liked the look better than the apex. Each his own.
Yeah, of all the categories, Looks is the most subjective to be sure. You’re not gonna go wrong with the P790. That’s still a freaking awesome iron!!!
790’s are clicky.
I have Callaway, but just happened to hit the JPX 921 Forged--and Wow. They felt amazing. Smooth as butter.
Yeah, Mizuno feel is good. And that’s what they’re known for. Out of curiosity, your Callaway irons, are they the brand new 2021 Apex or the 2019 Apex?
@@MattWilliamsGolf I'm actually using the Callaway Steelhead XR's. I was fitted for them about three years ago and just started looking for new irons. Trying to figure out what irons provide the best combination of performance and forgiveness for a 10 handicapper. But I was extremely impressed with the JPX 921 Forged.
@@steverupert6988 Ok, well the Mizuno’s are amazing irons. Truly amazing. That said, before you make your decision, make sure and check out the Callaway Apex ‘21 (not 2019) irons. If you still go with Mizuno, nothing wrong with that. But I think you’ll be even more impressed possibly with the new Apex!
@@MattWilliamsGolf They are Callaway Steelhead XR irons, which I've been using for over four years.
Just bought jpx921. I had older mx200 Mizunos. Did you mention loft diffs which might explain more about the numbers - especially spin.
I haven’t watched the finished video back. I hope loft didn’t hit the cutting room floor. But if it did, the Callaway and TM are the same loft with only the Mizuno being half a degree weaker. Not much of a difference, but certainly a difference nonetheless. But even with that, the idea is to just give golfers in general a comparison of how they perform side by side, differing lofts and all. But that’s a great point Mark.
Awesome video! I really liked how you provided the thought process behind the rankings. I think some disagree with how you define the categories. For me, forgiveness is how consistent of an outcome for bad feeling hits. Helps me try to always hit in the center, without giving up distance on miss hits. By the way, I bag the 921 forged!
By the way I own the JPX 921 Forged just actually picked them up after waiting 8 weeks to deliver. I won’t hate on you for not liking the Mizuno’s to each is own. Great review though!
Hahahaha. You’re a good man Marc. Thanks for not holding it against me. That’s the thing about all golf equipment. Not all golfers will experience the same result, and not all golfers are equally suited for each golf club.
What is your handicap and what did you switch from? I too am looking at the 921 Forged irons.
@@steverupert6988 I am a 7.5. And I haven’t made the switch yet at all. In fact, I don’t think I’ll be gaming either of the three irons in this review. I’m not telling you not to go with Mizuno. They are amazing irons. If you go that route, I doubt you’ll be disappointed. I’m just saying, give the Callaway Apex ‘21 a serious look before you pull the trigger.
Remember that the first round of the Mizuno you didn't know where center was and you said you hit them all to the left. You have 5 balls that went left but were within 5 yards of one another then you have the 2nd set of 5 that also have great consistency. I think from a dispersion standpoint, the Mizuno's are the hands down winner. Ball flight...the Apex was a little higher, but a lot of that can be down to strike as well. I have the lefty combo set of the JPX 921 Forged ....called the SEL. I have a similar swing speed to you, but am not seeing those carry distances with my 7 iron. Maybe need to swap out the shafts for the Dynamic Gold 105. Believe they came with KBS S-Taper 120
Interesting!! I tried all 3
the P790s and Apex felt ok.
I used to have TM Rsi1s and the polymer started coming out of the slots
I didn’t like the feel / sound of the 790s and not sure about the hollow head / slot in the Bottom
All good clubs
Looks are personal but I think the Mizunos are stunning but the Apex look more like a cavity back
Personal preference
Bought the JPX921 forged for looks, thinner top line accuracy, forgiveness,
And most important of all - confidence LOL
Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I almost named Mizuno the best in the Looks category. They are absolutely stunning irons. And I do think I mentioned it in the video, but yes, many golfers, especially the better players, are going to appreciate that thinner top line that Mizuno offers over the other two. At the end of the day, this game we call golf is so unique. What performs best for one player, might not for another. The response from one player to a golf club, could be a totally different response from another. I absolutely love the Mizuno’s, so I’m glad you landed on them and are loving them!
We are testing those also in the new iron fitting for my wife on Tuesday.....as for this review the spinnumbers with a 7 iron would scare the hell out of me😱. Unless there is a high descent angle there is no change stopping them on a green (unless they are soaking wet 😇)
Yeah, the spin numbers don’t bother me at all for one reason. Watch a number of my videos before and after this, and you’ll see I have absolutely not problem generating enough spin. But on days where the ball striking is just not good, that’s what happens. But I keep filming in those conditions for two reasons: A.) Thats what my channel is for. I’m not the plus handicapper that is doing things with the equipment that you at home won’t be able to generate. B.) Even on bad ball striking days, I can still compare them because it’s equally bad for all of them. So even if spin is down that particular day, it’s consistently down across the board. So I can still see which club is spinning more, tighter dispersion, traveling further, fly higher, etc. ....... I’m so limited on filming times, that I don’t have the ability to just reshoot a review if I’m not on my A-game. So it gets released just the way it is. And I’m cool with that. Hopefully the review still helps. Even if it’s just sorting through some thoughts or crystallizing some of your own thinking.
@@MattWilliamsGolf totally understand 👍🏽I noticed with irons such as Apex incredible distance but less spin (maybe because of the stronger lofts) and than I worry about stopping balls on the green. I don’t need the distance and so I prefer irons with more traditional lofts. At this moment I play the JPX921 Tour (replaced my MP18 blades). Looking forward how my wife will find the Apex and especially the JPX 921 forged irons.😃
4:25 Spin has a lot to do with your natural shot shape. If you’re hitting draws it’ll spin less. Fades and straight shots will spin a little more. I have the Mizunos. My shafts give me a little more kick. I launch them a little higher(80-90ft) and generate about 54-5700 spin. Absolutely love the Mizunos.
THANK YOU for making this video. These are the exact 3 sets on my short list to try and buy in the next few months.
Currently playing Rogue X. Wanting less offset and not as chunky/ thick top line.
You’re very welcome. Based on what you’re telling me you’re looking for, I would suggest that the Mizuno JPX921 Forged would be the iron for you. Only thing I would suggest is to be aware of that lie angle, and make sure it suits you.
I have a buddy who is a Mizuno lover and like most of them says that it’s the best feeling iron I’ll ever hit.
Definitely going to test all 3 though so (will be aware of the lie angle) so I guess we shall see.
Also, looking through the specs of the 3, I thought P790 had the least amount of offset? ...Apex having the most.
@@DrewKap Yeah, once someone is a Mizuno lover, it’s hard to talk them off it. Mizuno gamers defend their brand more than anyone else. You’re right though, Mizuno has a touch more offset than the P790. But the difference is very minimal. But I think you’ll appreciate the top line on the Mizuno more than the difference of offset would bother you.
Well... I went to my local golf store yesterday and hit the Apex 21 and JPX921 irons. Didn’t have P790 demo for LH golfers. Regardless, I’m almost certain I’ll be sticking with GI irons for now.
Rude awaking for my swing and true testament as to how GI irons really help a golfer.
I did like the way I hit the Apex DCB (just watched your video on those) but I have a fitting at Club Champion scheduled for this Saturday. Going to get specs nailed down and choose from there especially since the Apex are pricey.
Good thing is that there are GI irons with less offset and thinner top lines which is what I really want.
@@DrewKap I loved the DCB. You may want to take a look at TM Sim2 Max and Ping G425. I bet you love the G425 irons. Here’s a video I did on a few GI irons! ua-cam.com/video/fy-q76MPz-g/v-deo.html
Good review and good choice. I would have liked to see the hot medal pro in there . Apex 21 or the hot medal pro
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Good video Matt. I'm thinking about new irons.
Thanks Randy! What irons are you considering?
I play Mizuno T Zoid blades (30+ year old and yes I am looking for new irons). I love blades, just can't hit them as well or far any more. However, I want an iron that is forgiving on mis-hits i.e. not a huge sacrifice in distance and left to right...HOWEVER I want the feedback to "feel" that I mis-hit it. Also, I am not tied to any one club maker, I want what fits me best. I love my Mizunos but I also loved my Wilson Ultra 45's as well. I too like the thin top line look of blades and have a real tough time with the thicker top lines...they just don't look good to me.
Then it sounds like the Mizuno JPX921 forged could be a terrific fit for you!
I just ordered 921 forged after playing MP58’s for 7 years. Great feel. I tried the Apex. The 921 forged gave me about 15 yards more carry, 48 degree descent angle and good spin. Super straight but also very consistent distance control, which I think is more important for me. The last thing you want is a head that’s too hot and send ones 15 yards farther than average. I ordered a 921 hot metal pro 4 iron to replace my driving iron. Can’t wait!
@@deandesrosiers6857 Yeah, the 921 Forged are really consistent irons, which gives you a ton of confidence knowing what the result will be when you strike it well. And yes, the forged and hot metal pro's are a terrific combo set.
So, as I have found with my Srixons, I don't think you can trust the simulators all that much. I was getting crazy long numbers, but a lot of that was roll out after carry.
I haven't had the opportunities you have to test clubs, but I think most of the distance clubs are designed to launch and fall with a sharper decent angle. They have low spin, but combined with the decent angle, they stop pretty well.
The simulator numbers did not carry over to the course for me. For example, I had 186 carry 199 total for my 7 iron on the simulator. On the course, I was getting around 175 carry, and it was stopping within a few yards. I know some of this is temp and soft turf, but the way the ball descends, I just don't think simulators are very accurate outside of carry numbers.
Would you agree?
That’s so hard to answer. I think with regards to “total distance”, yes. Because the total distance number is essentially a computer computing/simulating what the total would be given the spin, height, decent, speed, carry, etc. But the specific ball flight, that’s tracked via a “radar” of sorts. All the other numbers are tracked as soon as the ball takes flight, along with measuring what the club is doing at impact. Another thing that some club fitters will do, is change the settings so that you think the ball is flying further than it actually is. For instance, there is a “simulated” setting and also a “real” setting (for lack of a better word). In other words, Trackman actually tracking what the ball is doing versus tracking what the computer thinks it should do. Another tricky thing in settings is the ball settings. In Trackman for instance, there are about 9-12 different ball settings that change how it measures everything. So it all depends on how the fitters have the settings set. That said, for me, I always have it set at actual numbers, and at a “Premium” ball. Which actually goes conservative because I’m obviously hitting range balls.
So that all said, I have to say Trackman is accurate depending on the settings. Everything except the “total distance” anyways.
Range balls vs course balls?
@@JettyBuilder No. I was using Pro V1X on the sim and the course.
@@JettyBuilder I unfortunately need to work with the setup I currently have. I’m not going to hit 50 ProV1’s out onto a range! Hahahaha. But it’s the best I can do until I get my own indoor simulator. That said, I still demo enough shots to draw some solid data and conclusions. At the end of the day, it’s still a decent way to test, review and compare clubs.
The total distance confuses me a bit , does the Trackman say these balls are releasing 15 yards after the carry ? I could be wrong but that doesn’t seem right. Am I missing something or am I not understanding Total distance??
3 wood spin rate (3500) and angle of decent averaging 40 degrees, that’s low and coming in hot! Typical spin rate and decent angle for a 7 iron should be 6000-7000 RPM and >45 degrees.
Yeah. I don’t get that either. Cuz if I fired these all at a green, they aren’t rolling out another 15 yards. Not at all. But, I include them in the numbers anyways. That’s why when I showed where they all landed, I only showed the carry distance. Perhaps on future reviews I may just only show carry, and just leave off the total distances.
@@tylerdobell2484 Yeah Tyler, I hear you man. Just not a good ball striking day. Nevertheless, if you look at a variety of my past club reviews, particularly like the Ping Blueprint, the Titleist T100 and T200, and others, you’ll see I normally have no problem getting 5,000-6,000 RPM. Just didn’t have the swing going well that day. Wasn’t getting my normal compression.
@@MattWilliamsGolf I enjoyed your thoughts on these irons... keep up the good work. BTW... The Blueprint and T100's should be higher spinning clubs due to their truer blade design.
@@2Bad. Thanks so much for the support. Yeah, I was just pointing out a couple. For instance, another good example for less of a blade or tour iron was the Srixon ZX5 where I was consistently over 6000 RPM. Its all good. Some days I got it. Some days I don’t. This was a “don’t got it” day, but still hopefully a helpful test for everyone looking at these irons.
Something seems wrong with your launch monitor. That spin rate for 7 irons is as if you're hitting each shot really thin. This may be how you hit perhaps? Trajectory looks a little low for a 7 iron which also might explain the extra distance as per your swing speeds.
You said you hit the first 5 shots with the Mizuno awful but it had the best dispersion and then rated it the least forgiving? Not following that logic.
Yeah, I thought about that too before I did my summary. But it turned out, I was hitting everything awful that day. So for me, forgiveness isn’t just dispersion, it’s also carry and feel with more emphasis on feel. I gauge forgiveness on the result in concert with how it felt. And on miss hits, the Mizuno felt the worst of the bunch. At the end of the day, they’re all pretty forgiving.
So how was Apex best for forgiveness if it had the worst dispersion? Thanks!
Yeah great question Joe. It’s hard to capture on a video review like this, but some of that was my personal feel based on how many good or bad swings I felt like I had and how it performed. I also was fracturing distance, in addition to dispersion, when looking at how it performed on miss hits. With the Apex, I still got respectable distance on miss hits versus the others (particularly the Mizuno). Lastly, I add feel to the consideration on forgiveness. (Some people disagree with this.) If an iron feels absolutely dreadful on a miss hit, that to me doesn’t give as much of a sense on forgiveness as an iron that still feels decent on a miss hit. But your question is a really valid one.
All three 7 irons are 37 inches. Maybe the shaft you happen to be using in the Mizuno is longer.
Can I ask what exactly is different about the mizuno stock lie angles compared to other manufacturers? Haven't heard that before. Fitting center didn't have the 921's in stock, so I got fit with a ping i210 and ordered those specs(+.50 -1 flat) in the forged. Hope I didn't make a mistake there.
Yeah, generally Mizuno is often flatter than most other manufacturers. In this case it was a full 1 degree less than the P790 and 0.5 degree less than the Apex. Which means that on the Mizuno, the toe sticks up a little more than the other two irons. It sounds to me, if you got your adjustment correct here, that your adjustment to the Ping i210 will make the lie angle match the Mizuno. How did they land on that lie angle for you? What did they use? Or did you just walk in and tell them you like the JPX921 Forged so they matched that for you?
@@MattWilliamsGolf Half inch long -1 degree flat is correct. I specifically asked for those those irons, the guy at the store did a great job walking me through and changing out all the options he had. I hit roughly 30 balls with three different irons on their foresight system to dial it in. Tape on the clubface and sole confirmed the fit. Perfectly Center struck ball marks on the face and dead center on the lie board sticker. I feel extremely confident with that fit for the Ping i210, g425 and Callaway Apex pro 7 irons I hit.
@@tonydelbert1358 That's awesome! Gotta love the confidence that comes from knowing your clubs are perfectly fitted to you.
Nice review. Callaway Apex was the standout for me and it was not really close. Most consistent and has the best overall look. P790 is a non-starter - feel is not great and it is chunky. 921 Forged blade length looks strange. The reviewer is looking at spin off mats and that is not reliable. (He also has a swing dominated by his arms which often includes skipping the transition and brings steepness.) I wouldn’t judge the spin based on this session. On course the Apex spin bumps up and is consistent. The shape, size and feel are as good as it gets. If you want more speed and power you’ve got to let it build and get that weight shift naturally, not forced. Shawn Clement demonstrates it well here.
ua-cam.com/video/bdCfgvOKTo4/v-deo.html
Enjoyed your video. I’m drawn to TM irons but do also prefer the P770 irons look over the P790 ones. In your opinion do u think a high handicapper (20) could play with P770’s or are they too small/hard and not forgiving atall? Just interested in your opinion as will hopefully improve but wasn’t sure if only the P790 are the ones suited for higher handicap players in the P range. Thanks
Yeah, honestly Jonathan, I would go with P790. Just a couple years ago I was nearly a 20 handicap. And I couldn’t fathom gaming the P770 when I was. The P790 is absolutely the club for you. Honestly, you should give the SiM2 irons a look too if you like TaylorMade. Just keep an open mind and hit both the P790 and SiM2 irons. See which one performs the best for you. And don’t just hit one iron. Try to hit several, like the PW, 7-iron and 5-iron. Then compare both models to each other. Best of luck! Let me know how it goes.
Thanks Matt, appreciate your advice, I will do that and have book in a fitting 👍
Great video Matt ! What trackman are you using?
Hey thanks! Would you believe I’m not sure? I’ll check next time I’m testing, and get back to you.
@@MattWilliamsGolf haha yeah let me know
What irons are you playing now?
I still game the same as you. TaylorMade RSi2. That is soon about to change though.
I just bought the Apex 21 DCB irons. They are not much bigger than the regular Apex 21's. So why not go for the extra forgiveness. I finished golf league last year as a 3 handicap. So don't let people get in your head about what clubs you should be playing. Just pick the best ckibs for you. I played Cobra forged tech Black one lenght for the last couple of years. The Apex 21 DCB I just seem to hit a little better.
Not trying to be that guy, but I feel if you were to shorten your back swing. You would have more control and possibly even hit it the same.or farther.
Lol, no appreciate the feedback. And yes, there are loads of low handicap players that still play fairly chunk CB’s. The top end of that backswing is absolutely something I’m working on. It’ll get shortened up here soon. One thing at a time. Believe me though, no one is in my head on club selection. I’ll choose based on what works and tests best for me. This particular test wasn’t for myself really, although I would be happy to game any of them. It was, and generally is, merely for my audience. To get an average golfer’s perspective.
@@MattWilliamsGolf awsome stuff keep up the club reviews for us normal people. Lol
mizuno irons standard are flatter lies, but not longer shafts
Yeah, you’re right. When laid next to the others, because of lie angle, it has the appearance that the shaft is a 1/2” longer.
just tested the Apex against the JPX921. In terms of feel the Mizunos are way ahead of the Apex. Really like butter, while the Apex have a dull feeling (for me). So I cant really follow the review..
Yeah, that’s the interesting (and cool) thing about golf equipment. The feel, feedback, response to a golf club can vary between golfers. For me, the Apex felt softer than Mizuno. But I know for many, Mizuno is the best feeling iron out there. There is no wrong answer. Just one player telling another what they felt while testing them.
Your swing speed seems to slow for DG 105
Not the best comparison when your spin rate is half what it should be
P790 has a problem with that one hot one.
Pretty lazy if you didn't baseline center before you started testing = time wasting 🙄
Appreciate your feedback. That said, I showed the ball flights on the video. I showed the landing dispersion. If you don’t get anything from that, then I’m sure me not knowing where center was on the track man isn’t the problem. Again, thanks for the wonderful feedback.
@@MattWilliamsGolf
Understand what you're saying but there's a tight view market and baseline direction and 5 minutes of warm up is the basics for being watchable, otherwise you'll have hundreds of people thinking what I am and just writing you off never watching or sharing. Trust me you needed to hear this.
@@InsuranceSpecialistIgnore this guy
Admittedly a bad swing day...getting little spin and hitting it all over the face...gives the club with the tightest dispersion the lowest ranking for forgiveness????
Terrible background music.
I don't think your analysis of Feel is correct. You stated something along the lines that mishits with the Mizuno didn't feel good. That is the point, the club is meant to tell you if you have a mishit. Otherwise get a Callaway with lots of Tungsten low down giving elevation but less feel.
Feel is very subjective. And I try and mention this in my videos. That some players like a club that delivers a strong signal on miss-hits. I personally do not. I can tell by a variety of other factors if I miss it. I also generally go by softness on solid centered strikes as well. But I think you make a spot on valid point.
YOU'RE GOING TO GET WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY MORE SPIN RATE OFF THE MAT THEN YOU WOULD WITH GRASS