Let's be real here, the mechs are probably gonna be toys and the individual stories from each episode are just basic setups to have it all culminate in the end
I'm pretty sure there are already Mech Avengers toys for little kids; maybe they were in another cartoon or something, but this felt like a familiar concept adapted for 'WI?'
It’s literally going to be all Hollywood movie genre tropes this ENTIRE season. I wanted What If “a different choice within a previous plot” type of a show. Like, What If Spiderman never met Ironman.
Episode 1 annoyed me. It reminded me how great Sam Wilson is as Cap and as a counsellor and it really annoyed me that it’s been nearly four years since he’s made an appearance in anything. Such a wasted opportunity
It was because of COVID that it didn't happen. Falcom and the Winter Soldier and Eternals were meant to be followed up probably in 2022 or 2023 but was delayed because of COVID and writer's strikes
You can't deny that Bruce and Sam's dynamic and conversations were the highlight of that episode. On top of that, it's nice to see more phase 4 and 5 characters in this alternate universe where basically the MCU quickly got these "newcomers" assembled as our new avengers.
It was great to see them two finally interacting. The first episode was a blast and it’s been my favorite so far. The issues brought up in this video are reaching way too deep into the main MCU storyline
I think episodes like the first episode need more time. the beats they want to hit in the pace it’s going doesn’t fit. This is why “What if the other half got snapped” would never be executed as a 9-10/10, because simply the scope requires time.
Honestly the issue with what if the other half got snapped is that that would include thanos so it would just be a whole episode on figuring out how to do the snap since they don’t really need to get the guantlet
@@monerb7185Assuming Thanos didn’t leave his own fate to random chance (someone has to destroy the stones after all), the half left doing the time heist would be doing it on easy mode. Hank Pym alone makes the whole thing a lot easier, since their supply of Pym particles isn’t limited. They also have Hope, Janet, and Shuri, so they’ve got four super scientists working on this, three of which specialize in quantum physics. The bigger question then is whether they know where to find all the stones, especially the Soul Stone.
I’m not sure if it’s because of X-Men 97, but three episodes in, and I feel like the quality of these episodes just feels so poor in contrast to previous seasons? I hope the later half of the season is more exciting/better written, but I understand why the show is ending now. What If to me is the best example of wasted potential
What If...? as a boring pseudo anthology (NO anthology (animated OR live-action) with 26 episodes should have less than 12 directors. The actual director count on What If...? is 2. LOL.) has 3 seasons. Ms. Marvel, the Marvel show that COULD get a second season that most warrants it, is still stuck at one.
It kinda annoyed me how the show marketed itself as exploring alternate timelines and the effects differently made choices would have had on the mcu but then it's mostly stuff like *what if black panther was someone else* and *what if killmonger and iron man were best buds*
SOME of the concepts are neat but they are never given the time or animation to be fully realized. I think the only episode I’ve liked was that really sad Doctor Strange one.
There are so many what if stories this show could’ve done. Like obviously the most requested one has been “What if the other half blipped” and that could’ve easily been a two parter finale to a season and fans would’ve been so happy. I personally would’ve also loved to see “What if Ego settled down on Earth” “What if The Starks lived?” (This one we’ve kind of gotten, but we only focused on Red Guardian and Bucky) “What if Captain Carter retired” I know a lot of people are annoyed with how much Peggy we’ve gotten lately, but I personally would’ve also like to see an episode that shows her story end nicely like we saw Steve’s story end in endgame “What if Tony Stark was Sorcerer Supreme?” “What if Peter Parker was never bitten by the spider?” “What if Jake Lockley took control?” “What if Shang Chi was the Winter Soldier?” And lastly “What if Kang Won”
Me: I think you're being too harsh! The episodes have been fun and interesting imo Also me: ...okay I legitimately need to see every single one of the episodes you just suggested 😅
@@317cmrogers there are so many what if concepts that connect to the MCU as it stands right now so many people would love to see. “What if the Eternals intervened” “What if Wanda watched Musicals instead of Sitcoms” “What if Ultron never failed?” “What if Loki Beat the Avengers?” “What if Thor grew up with Hela?” “What if The Eternals learned the Mystic Arts?” “What if Gorr completed his mission?”
6:28 seeing Kingo and Agatha together felt so goood their chemistry together felt like a no duh sort of thing like they were made for each other with all their energy, I LOVED IT!
@@RickCarleton it'd be amazing if Marvel got a Bollywood director for one movie to just go nuts. But I'm afraid Marvel doesn't have budgetary discipline right now to put stuff in the right place as far as spending. If they could maybe make a few movies at low to mid budget and get a large return on those, then I think they'd be ready for something a little bigger and crazier as a treat. Provided they had a great script to match and justify it as I've seen several reoccurring comments point out and have been saying for a while.
"the dancing is kind of stiff, but thats really hard to do in this medium" You say that like 3d animated models dancing isn't a massive industry in japan
Lol agreed what a cope Art style in these shows is abysmal and they just can’t be bothered to make the animations better or character models not look bloody horrifying
Because it's not like he actually meets Sam Wilson first(he meets a lot of other people before Sam in both this timeline and the original one) and the Hulk isn't actually destroyed.When the Gamma Apex splits from his body, he's still the Hulk
I like how episode 2 fleshed out Kingo's acting career in a way that the movie didn't have time to do. It's cool how the casting of Kathryn Hahn and the writing of Agatha in the TV shows she's been in has elevated such a minor character to a new level in the Marvel universe. Very fun and creative episode.
In episode 1 Sam Wilsons character found its emotional center again, and in retrospect that is what has been missing since Civil War. After Cap aged out in end game and Falcon and Winter Soldier felt hollow until Isiah Bradley was introduced Sam’s character still didn’t feel fully fleshed out. Episode 1 did give me hope that that emotional center will return to his character arc. Episode 2 was fantastic in showing the possible and unending power taking capabilities of Agatha and hinted at the eventual showdown between Agatha and Death.
as soon as episode 1 ended, i said, "I'm glad this was first" and immediately said that it is ok if not eveything is for me. that's kinda the fun of what if. not everything has to be for me, and tomorrow's episode might be for me
Agatha and Kingo set in old Hollywood is a What If I didn't even know I needed to see so badly until it came alive. And I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it! It is the best episode so far this season.
Episode 2 was honestly a good watch because of the Eternals, I just wish that Agatha didn't change her personality so quickly, I was totally expecting it to end on a bad note and she'd destroy the planet or take it over
Present day Agatha for sure would do that,but this is an past Agatha that instead of doing magic in London,she goes to America to try to become a star(probably because of this,she never meets lady Death)
Thought Ep1 was kind of boring. Ep2 was fun with Kathryn Hahn hamming it up. One complaint was that the backup dancers was so copy pasted, not only was it just one model, but they very perfectly synched as well. Ep3 was fun with David Harbour hamming it up. Though the ending was very rushed.
I had to adjust my brain to deal with such a cartoonish Red Guardian. I mostly like the animation style, but this was definitely an episode that could have benefited from a less "realistic" approach. I'd accept Red Guardian's cartoonish portrayal more if the visuals felt more cartoonish.
The second episode would have been better if Kingo gave his speech, then Agatha just conqueres The Earth anyway. The Agatha from All Along would not have turned face that easily. Episode Three, with Red Guardian and The Winter Soldier was fun. I feel like it suffered the same pacing issues every episode suffers from though. Edit: I still can't believe one of the important characters from episode three was that random forest ranger Bill Foster meets. Just some random unnamed character.
She was named Morales though, no? Am I imagining things, I'm pretty sure she said her name was sheriff Morales. Given the timeframe she's probably Miles' grandma or something, given that we know Aaron Davis is already a canon character from Homecoming.
Except this Agatha isn't the one from Agatha all Along.This Agatha had probably never meet Lady Death and She doesn't really have a reason to conquer earth.Like conquering Earth won't give her more power than she already has and she really enjoyed being an actress
@@petrenicolae3282 I mean, we can all have our own head canon. For me, that doesn't really work because her whole reason for being in Hollywood was to do grand rituals and gain power. But if it works for you, that's great.
I really did not care for episode 1 at all, but episode 2 really worked for me. It leans into the shows strengths and even weaknesses in a way that suits that premise. But man I *hated* episode 3.
7:20 The only Eternal who knows about Tiamut is whoever has been chosen as Prime Eternal - it's a single line but Kingo mentions since Agatha took out every other Eternal, he was by default made Prime Eternal and that's how he knows
thats every season of what if. each ep is a different theme, character and tone (?) (all mcu products have the same tone lets keep it real; they just lean more in one direction to make it fit whatever genre they are pretending to be (doc strange 2 with horror. the marvels with musicals. etc but they never FULLY commit to the thing)
The prime eternal is always in the know. As Agatha kidnapped more and more of them the mantle was passed down repeatedly to all of of them which is why he knows. Or at least that was my assumption
Thinking of interesting no one had trough about them what if's and making them good is harder.Like the The Doctor Strange one where the divergence is him and Cristine still being together,instead of the original timeline where they are not together anymore or The Star Lord T'challa is basically Yondu taking the wrong child(a child who didn't fear him) and the 80's Avengers one is Yondu actually delivering Peter Quill tonEgo. He'll, even the Captain Carter what if has its own big differences(we get them in a sequel episode in season 2,sure but it still had big differences)Wasp being one of the original Avengers, HYDRA never infiltrating SHIELD,Bucky living a decent-ish life,The Red Room being destroyed earlier than in the original timeline.
My understanding of the Eternals thing was that Kingo became the Prime Eternal after Agatha took the powers from the other Eternals, in which case Arishem would have told him the plan
Episode 1 was definitely a bomb. Everyone gets robots because they couldn’t think of a better way to fight Hulk gremlins? At least make each the equivalent of when they Voltroned together. All they really needed to do was use Pym particles to shrink tanks and sprinkle in their food, then expand inside them.
ngl I wish that the first episode was animated in the style of the avengers show in the ep. I feel like they would be able to do more stylized action in that style that was more dynamic and fun. Plus, I found it a bit confusing for them to start with the intro and then have the Watcher reexplain everything that was in that sequence... At first I thought they traveled in time and then wasn't sure if the cold open was a flash forward. I feel like time could have spent better having the entire background story in the fake show's intro or leave it for just the Watcher to explain all in one go.
All those mechs and not one of them is unique. Sam didn’t use the shield, Shang Chi used the rings to punch, etc, etc. They all just fired lasers and missiles, it was so unimaginative.
Problem with the mech episode is I feel it would have benefit far better outsourcing the episode to an animation studio in Japan, hell I feel What If would been better if it was more akin to Love Death Robots and Star Wars Visions when it’s different animation styles each episodes
0:59 Why didn't they call him the Titan or the Devil Hulk? Is it so hard to make a comic book reference to darker Hulk personalities? Do the writers simply not read comics?
Because then people would complain about how it's not exactly like the comic book character so just embracing it as an original concept is easier. They already made a reference with the Island Bruce was on being from the comics I don't think they just don't care.
My favourite thing about this season so far is that it puts the Agent Carter show back into the canon. Gives me hope that they'll maybe make season 3 one day.
To add to the whole rushed vibe of the mech episode, a couple of years ago when What If season 2 was in development, a three-four minute storyboard leaked of one of the episodes for said season, that featured the Avengers in mechs, but whats interesting here is that none of the characters featured in the end product are in that storyboard. The line-up of Avengers with mechs consisted of Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, and Iron Heart, (and Scarlet Witch is also there and seems to be important but it is unclear if she had a mech or not), but what this has in common with the end product is that it also featured Hulk becoming giant and fighting the big monster, which was not the Apex, but actually Surtur, and the fight ended with the mechs forming around giant Hulk like an armor and the fight going to space, where Hulk sacrifices himself to save everyone, again, like in the end product. Season 2 of What If famously had a troubled production, and it is speculated (basically confirmed now) that many episodes were planned but they didn't finish them in time, and one of them was the mech episode. This is why, the day the final episode of season 2 aired, they also released a clip of the Bucky/Red Guardian episode of Season 3, fully animated and voice acted. A full year away from it releasing. Snippets from that episode can be seen in the shards of glass from the intro to season 2, which is, again, confirmation that it was supposed to be in Season 2, but they just didn't have it in time, or they did had it, but felt it best to just wait on it? Point is, this mech episode clearly was not like this and was reworked completely from the original idea, which is why the line-up we ended up with is so lame in comparison to the other one. Marvel probably just wanted to give these phase 4 characters a boost, logic be damned. That storyboard is still up on YT, so you should go see it if you haven't already. It's way cooler than what we got.
Ep 1: Pacific Voltron and Hulkzilla vs. Generic kaiju. Why is it so difficult to animate Sebastian Stan? Anthony Mackie still kills it as the best councilor in the MCU. Ep. 2: why is the Witch using other characters powers? Why is there dancing but no singing when you have Kathryn Hahn? What does alien robots have to do with the witch Agatha Harkness?
I really had the same thoughts about the first episode, didn’t love it at all, all those mechs and most characters didn’t have any character at all. It feels like Shang Chi and Moon Knight, who are two of my favorite additions from phase 4, only have lines that could have been said by anyone else except that one Konshu reference, and they weirdly looked much less like Simu Liu and Oscar Isaac than Monica Rambeau, so there was almost no recognition value for them
thank you for echoing my thoughts back at me! I couldn't figure out who all was in the mech Avengers roster until way too late (when Moon Knight said "Khonshu..." and Shang-Chi used his rings in the big battle), probably because they weren't named and had different costumes than we've seen them in. Trying to pull Eternals lore from the depths it had sunk into was tough, and yeah it seems like this is a very different universe if they knew about the celestial egg that early - and were actively protecting it. The dancing was stiff and poses were awkward, like they didn't have anyone with knowledge of dance to correct wonky animations. Arishem really reminded me of Eva Unit 02; Agatha's celestial look will be great for a Marvel Rivals skin.
I kinda watch What If for the actual what if idea normally, and The whole...reallly tame toku reference stuff was boring, but i'll say Episode 3 really hellped me a lot. Red Guardian is a utter delight. Ive always loved him as a character, and Thunderbolts* looks really great due to his inclusion, but the What If really cemented why he's such a goofy idea in the MCU in a way im actually okay with. I kinda don't mind the weirdness of tone and scale of the season, because so far it's felt a lot more interesting with what we have.
I honestly had no idea that Moon Knight was in Ep 1 until the end credits. His human character model just looked like another Bucky, I didn't recognize Oscar Isaac's voice and I didn't notice the crescents on his mech because the fight scene skipped to the combination moment so fast. It's so bizarre that *this* is the first time Moon Knight actually interacts with the rest of the MCU, but I'm glad Oscar Isaac was up for it. I just wish I actually appreciated it when I was actually, y'know, watching it *happen*... Similarly, as someone who actually really enjoyed "The Eternals", I'm glad Marvel Studios hasn't completely decided to sweep the existence of that film under the rug. Maybe this means Black Knight will still join the Avengers? Although, that seems like it might still be tied to some form of a "Blade" movie getting made eventually...
I'm catching up on these, and I'm currently through episode 5. I wonder if there was another episode that got scrapped and replaced with the mech episode on a compressed timetable because episode 1 feels a lot more slapped together, whereas 2 through 5 feel a lot more fully realized. Still enjoyed episode 1, but wish we'd had more action from the mechs.
6:54 My biggest disappointment with Eternals was they didn't take the chance to insert them into MCU prehistoric moments. A scene of Gilgamesh helping Thor protect the hidden Tesseract. A scene of Makkari trying to get the 10 Rings but withdraw when they see it is too late. A different perspective that shows Phastos was one of Dr Erskines lab assistant on the day Captain America was made. Don't derail the story but choose different things to spend time on than they did.
Merry Christmas - Episode 3 sparked an idea for a MCU movie: The Red Guardian & The Winter Soldier. Shot in black and white with a Logan-esque tone and set in the year before the events of Cap 2, Alexei and Bucky are sent on a mission by the Russian government to America (I’ll leave it up to you to decide what). Movie ends with Bucky being brainwashed again, similar to the end of the What If episode, and sent on the mission to confront Cap. An interesting corner of the MCU not yet explored!
I feel like we're overthinking the concept of putting the Avengers in mechs to punch giant monsters here? I don't know, the mech episode was a blast and had a real "just go with it" vibe for me.
Was I the only one who found the what if episode 1 to be just disturbing? I mean if you don’t think about the mecha and monsters but focus on the characters , you realized just how big of an ego they have and are just completely badly written. Like Bruce separated himself from the hulk then what? Leave to live in an island alone while forgetting the thousands of people died due to the hulk monster he caused? Then when Sam comes to recruit him to help him, what does he do? Just gives him a hard drive that apparently he was just waiting for someone to come and get it? Also like Bruce didn’t want to help cause he was just so petty that he focused on himself feeling bad and not the hundreds of people that died due to his stupidity, like gut over yourself, Spider-Man doesn’t take a day off and the writers literally put him through hell yet that doesn’t stop him from being a hero.
Your issues with episode one makes no sense. Just because a hero has powers and fought monsters in the main MCU timeline doesn’t mean that was or is the case in this ultimate reality. This show is called “What If” This show isn’t designed for ppl to attach what happens in each episode to any main storyline from the main MCU canon from the past. The first episode imo was better than the last two. Definitely more fun and much more interesting. Plus, seeing Sam as Cap and Hulkzilla was my favorite parts
I feel like the dialogue this season so far has been non-stop quips and jokes. I imagine this is what people that hate the MCU think the MCU is written. "Oh he's behind me isn't it", "Well that just happened" type of dialogue. Also this show is visually is way too glossy for me, it looks like the 'camera' is smeared in vaseline, the bloom and glare is out of this world it looks like The Hobbit movies with its shininess. I dunno maybe seasons 1 and 2 were like this I forget but so far this season hasn't been for me and I'm an MCU die-hard. It doesn't feel like these guys are making the most of the premise.
Honestly, they should've just made this series straight up anthologies without any real connections to each other. Random stories without crossing over. More time to be more creative and not needing to end the series with a big final battle or whatever.
I was super excited for episode 1 of this season for one reason and one reason only: Moon Knight. I was SO excited to see him more here!! I wanted to know how he met the team, how he met the avengers, what the others thought of his relationship with Konshu, the interactions with Steven, stuff like that. I was there for the character interactions, and I was disappointed- there wasn't a lot of that. but from what I saw, I feel like it wasn't the writer's fault. I think what if could be/have been really good if the episodes were longer and had more time to develop their concepts. I like the idea of just letting the writers write what they want to write.- that's how you get good stuff. Luckily, as a Fnaf and Pokemon fan, I am no stranger to filling in the gaps myself. I spent a solid hour after watching imagining how Marc and Konshu got involved and I very much enjoyed it. And his mech was SO COOL. So cool.
the first episode, just made me want a hulk mini series. I mean we have seen so much of his characeter developement and advenures occur off screen. why not do it on screen, in an animiated series.?
Somehow a CGI animated show that has the budget from Disney/Marvel themselves can’t execute mecha as hard as a random weekly mecha anime show in the 90s
The premises of the what if comic books were so good. Sad there not doing crazier concepts. Also sad COVID made them cut the episodes down from an hour each:(
I actually like the first two episodes, as the first was a nice Voltron/Power Rangers tribute with an interesting premise and the latter was a lighter, better Agatha-centered scenario than that pointless post-WandaVision show.
I have the opposite view from you on this. I really liked episode 1 with all the mechs. It felt like a completely different world and story and I enjoyed the big punch ups. Episode 2 I thought was more of a sketch than an episode. I found the dancing animations really really bad and the only person who felt like their actual character was Kingo (only because he was doing stuff we have seen him do before). Agatha didnt look or act like Agatha to me (until she became a super witch at the end). Howard Stark was bizarre. I really didnt enjoy it.
I find it kind of hilarious that they straight-up gave at least one of the mechs a Gundam face, sometimes I wonder if Disney forgets they don't own literally everything.
There are a billion CCP funded Chinese mech toys looks almost exactly like some worse version of Gundam, if those are OK then this one is absolutely fine.
Let's be real here, the mechs are probably gonna be toys and the individual stories from each episode are just basic setups to have it all culminate in the end
I'm pretty sure there are already Mech Avengers toys for little kids; maybe they were in another cartoon or something, but this felt like a familiar concept adapted for 'WI?'
Haven't seen the episode but did they give Spiderman his mech leopards? If not that is some wasted potential right their.
You mean like every other show in existence?
It’s literally going to be all Hollywood movie genre tropes this ENTIRE season. I wanted What If “a different choice within a previous plot” type of a show. Like, What If Spiderman never met Ironman.
@@SuperRONDALEI wanted “what ifs” for real things people would be wondering.
Episode 1 annoyed me. It reminded me how great Sam Wilson is as Cap and as a counsellor and it really annoyed me that it’s been nearly four years since he’s made an appearance in anything. Such a wasted opportunity
True they should've made it more focused on him this had many things
agree
Though Anthony Mackie has been working, but yeah, I would like to see Sam again. He's cool.
Okay what the hell. You just got me to look up the release date of Falcon and the Winter Soldier.... Early 2021. The hell did that time go.
It was because of COVID that it didn't happen. Falcom and the Winter Soldier and Eternals were meant to be followed up probably in 2022 or 2023 but was delayed because of COVID and writer's strikes
You can't deny that Bruce and Sam's dynamic and conversations were the highlight of that episode. On top of that, it's nice to see more phase 4 and 5 characters in this alternate universe where basically the MCU quickly got these "newcomers" assembled as our new avengers.
I loved their dynamic too, but it feels off that the episode billed as "Gundam but Marvel" really ignores the gundams.
@@vincentmatamoros1757Voltron, Gundam, Godzilla, and introducing new Avengers is allot to cram into 30 minutes.
It was great to see them two finally interacting. The first episode was a blast and it’s been my favorite so far. The issues brought up in this video are reaching way too deep into the main MCU storyline
I think episodes like the first episode need more time. the beats they want to hit in the pace it’s going doesn’t fit.
This is why “What if the other half got snapped” would never be executed as a 9-10/10, because simply the scope requires time.
@@ItsGalex they could do a three episode parts
Exactly it should've have two or three episodes because a lot was supposed to be answered
Honestly the issue with what if the other half got snapped is that that would include thanos so it would just be a whole episode on figuring out how to do the snap since they don’t really need to get the guantlet
@@monerb7185Assuming Thanos didn’t leave his own fate to random chance (someone has to destroy the stones after all), the half left doing the time heist would be doing it on easy mode. Hank Pym alone makes the whole thing a lot easier, since their supply of Pym particles isn’t limited. They also have Hope, Janet, and Shuri, so they’ve got four super scientists working on this, three of which specialize in quantum physics. The bigger question then is whether they know where to find all the stones, especially the Soul Stone.
“What if the other half got snapped” honestly never got the hype of that, what’s even the story there.
I’m not sure if it’s because of X-Men 97, but three episodes in, and I feel like the quality of these episodes just feels so poor in contrast to previous seasons? I hope the later half of the season is more exciting/better written, but I understand why the show is ending now. What If to me is the best example of wasted potential
What If...? as a boring pseudo anthology (NO anthology (animated OR live-action) with 26 episodes should have less than 12 directors. The actual director count on What If...? is 2. LOL.) has 3 seasons. Ms. Marvel, the Marvel show that COULD get a second season that most warrants it, is still stuck at one.
POOR HOW?
The what if episodes still looks great.I guess that X-Men 97 just made you spoiled,that's all.
@@petrenicolae3282 They look ok.
it's mostly because of x men being so good in contrast
For a “What if?” Show, it’s weird how unimaginative the episodes are. Like, hardly of them are interesting. 😒
Seriously i dont get it.
It kinda annoyed me how the show marketed itself as exploring alternate timelines and the effects differently made choices would have had on the mcu but then it's mostly stuff like *what if black panther was someone else* and *what if killmonger and iron man were best buds*
SOME of the concepts are neat but they are never given the time or animation to be fully realized. I think the only episode I’ve liked was that really sad Doctor Strange one.
@sapphicgal3245 Right, I understand the movies are kinda limited, but this shouldn't be. Maybe I'm wrong, idk
@sapphicgal3245 the killmonger with iron man makes sense bcuz it showed how he planned everything to destroy wakanda
There are so many what if stories this show could’ve done. Like obviously the most requested one has been “What if the other half blipped” and that could’ve easily been a two parter finale to a season and fans would’ve been so happy. I personally would’ve also loved to see
“What if Ego settled down on Earth”
“What if The Starks lived?” (This one we’ve kind of gotten, but we only focused on Red Guardian and Bucky)
“What if Captain Carter retired” I know a lot of people are annoyed with how much Peggy we’ve gotten lately, but I personally would’ve also like to see an episode that shows her story end nicely like we saw Steve’s story end in endgame
“What if Tony Stark was Sorcerer Supreme?”
“What if Peter Parker was never bitten by the spider?”
“What if Jake Lockley took control?”
“What if Shang Chi was the Winter Soldier?”
And lastly “What if Kang Won”
Just thought of another one, “What if The Ancient One had the Ten Rings?”
Me: I think you're being too harsh! The episodes have been fun and interesting imo
Also me: ...okay I legitimately need to see every single one of the episodes you just suggested 😅
@@317cmrogers there are so many what if concepts that connect to the MCU as it stands right now so many people would love to see. “What if the Eternals intervened” “What if Wanda watched Musicals instead of Sitcoms” “What if Ultron never failed?” “What if Loki Beat the Avengers?” “What if Thor grew up with Hela?” “What if The Eternals learned the Mystic Arts?” “What if Gorr completed his mission?”
@@doritohair0759 you do realize we already had a "What if Ultron won?" in season 1 right?
@ProjektTaku no no no, I mean like What if Ultron never became evil and worked as intended
6:28
seeing Kingo and Agatha together felt so goood
their chemistry together felt like a no duh sort of thing like they were made for each other with all their energy, I LOVED IT!
Two larger than life characters bouncing pff of each other is always amazing.
I just felt that such a musical number is WASTED on animation. Imagine a Bollywood directed dance scene in a live action MCU!
@@RickCarleton it'd be amazing if Marvel got a Bollywood director for one movie to just go nuts. But I'm afraid Marvel doesn't have budgetary discipline right now to put stuff in the right place as far as spending.
If they could maybe make a few movies at low to mid budget and get a large return on those, then I think they'd be ready for something a little bigger and crazier as a treat. Provided they had a great script to match and justify it as I've seen several reoccurring comments point out and have been saying for a while.
"the dancing is kind of stiff, but thats really hard to do in this medium"
You say that like 3d animated models dancing isn't a massive industry in japan
Lol agreed what a cope
Art style in these shows is abysmal and they just can’t be bothered to make the animations better or character models not look bloody horrifying
6:28
Howard Stark reminded me of Varrick from Legend of Korra
i just loved his enthusiastic energy ❤
Why wasn't the first episode just called "What if Bruce Banner met Sam Wilson first" or "What if Bruce Banner destroyed the Hulk"
Because it's not like he actually meets Sam Wilson first(he meets a lot of other people before Sam in both this timeline and the original one) and the Hulk isn't actually destroyed.When the Gamma Apex splits from his body, he's still the Hulk
Or what if the hulk became Godzilla?
Kingo and Agatha the only two characters with egos that could rival a stark
I like how episode 2 fleshed out Kingo's acting career in a way that the movie didn't have time to do. It's cool how the casting of Kathryn Hahn and the writing of Agatha in the TV shows she's been in has elevated such a minor character to a new level in the Marvel universe. Very fun and creative episode.
8:36 the design of celestial Agatha gives me Aaravos (ala Dragon Prince) vibes
In episode 1 Sam Wilsons character found its emotional center again, and in retrospect that is what has been missing since Civil War. After Cap aged out in end game and Falcon and Winter Soldier felt hollow until Isiah Bradley was introduced Sam’s character still didn’t feel fully fleshed out. Episode 1 did give me hope that that emotional center will return to his character arc.
Episode 2 was fantastic in showing the possible and unending power taking capabilities of Agatha and hinted at the eventual showdown between Agatha and Death.
as soon as episode 1 ended, i said, "I'm glad this was first" and immediately said that it is ok if not eveything is for me. that's kinda the fun of what if. not everything has to be for me, and tomorrow's episode might be for me
Agatha and Kingo set in old Hollywood is a What If I didn't even know I needed to see so badly until it came alive. And I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it! It is the best episode so far this season.
Episode 2 was honestly a good watch because of the Eternals, I just wish that Agatha didn't change her personality so quickly, I was totally expecting it to end on a bad note and she'd destroy the planet or take it over
Present day Agatha for sure would do that,but this is an past Agatha that instead of doing magic in London,she goes to America to try to become a star(probably because of this,she never meets lady Death)
Nah fuck that, episode 2 was stupid
Thought Ep1 was kind of boring.
Ep2 was fun with Kathryn Hahn hamming it up. One complaint was that the backup dancers was so copy pasted, not only was it just one model, but they very perfectly synched as well.
Ep3 was fun with David Harbour hamming it up. Though the ending was very rushed.
I had to adjust my brain to deal with such a cartoonish Red Guardian. I mostly like the animation style, but this was definitely an episode that could have benefited from a less "realistic" approach. I'd accept Red Guardian's cartoonish portrayal more if the visuals felt more cartoonish.
I feel like the dancers being copy pasted works bc IRL they're supposed to be super in sync, like that's the whole point of line dancers
The second episode would have been better if Kingo gave his speech, then Agatha just conqueres The Earth anyway. The Agatha from All Along would not have turned face that easily.
Episode Three, with Red Guardian and The Winter Soldier was fun. I feel like it suffered the same pacing issues every episode suffers from though.
Edit: I still can't believe one of the important characters from episode three was that random forest ranger Bill Foster meets. Just some random unnamed character.
Yeah, I had a lot of trouble buying the feel-good ending for 2. It's too bad, because I enjoyed myself a lot otherwise.
She was named Morales though, no? Am I imagining things, I'm pretty sure she said her name was sheriff Morales. Given the timeframe she's probably Miles' grandma or something, given that we know Aaron Davis is already a canon character from Homecoming.
Except this Agatha isn't the one from Agatha all Along.This Agatha had probably never meet Lady Death and She doesn't really have a reason to conquer earth.Like conquering Earth won't give her more power than she already has and she really enjoyed being an actress
@@petrenicolae3282
I mean, we can all have our own head canon. For me, that doesn't really work because her whole reason for being in Hollywood was to do grand rituals and gain power.
But if it works for you, that's great.
Can we agree episode 3 is great
Yes. My word David Harbour LOVES that role!
It's better than the first 2 but that's not saying much
First few episodes are popcorn faire. I hope they finish on a good note. Merry Christmas, Nando.
I geninely just thought that the only reason the mech episode existed was so LEGO could have more marvel mechs to sell on mass
Worst part is they didn't even launched any, instead we got a buildable Sam Wilson for Cap 4 lol
Mechs are just popular with kids these days. They’re both targeting the same audience.
The first episode felt like it was something nobody asked for and yet they couldn’t even do the bare minimum of delivering
I really did not care for episode 1 at all, but episode 2 really worked for me. It leans into the shows strengths and even weaknesses in a way that suits that premise.
But man I *hated* episode 3.
I seriously thought episode 3 was by and far the weakest of any of the episodes, and this season has been disappointing overall so far.
Episode 3 came out today, and all things considered, without spoiling anything, I had a lot of fun with it. More so than 1.
7:20 The only Eternal who knows about Tiamut is whoever has been chosen as Prime Eternal - it's a single line but Kingo mentions since Agatha took out every other Eternal, he was by default made Prime Eternal and that's how he knows
thats every season of what if. each ep is a different theme, character and tone (?) (all mcu products have the same tone lets keep it real; they just lean more in one direction to make it fit whatever genre they are pretending to be (doc strange 2 with horror. the marvels with musicals. etc but they never FULLY commit to the thing)
The prime eternal is always in the know. As Agatha kidnapped more and more of them the mantle was passed down repeatedly to all of of them which is why he knows. Or at least that was my assumption
"What if" should be called "These stories have no stakes."
welcome to modern marvel
That's how most What If? Comics are, though
You didn't see the Happy Die Hard ep?
> The threat of a war with 1000 godzillas
> The celestial awakening
@@fantasticbirdblue > And none of them matter after 22 minutes
Guys, it's not that hard to think of what if events. Like What if Cap was found earlier or something.
Thinking of interesting no one had trough about them what if's and making them good is harder.Like the
The Doctor Strange one where the divergence is him and Cristine still being together,instead of the original timeline where they are not together anymore or The Star Lord T'challa is basically Yondu taking the wrong child(a child who didn't fear him) and the 80's Avengers one is Yondu actually delivering Peter Quill tonEgo.
He'll, even the Captain Carter what if has its own big differences(we get them in a sequel episode in season 2,sure but it still had big differences)Wasp being one of the original Avengers, HYDRA never infiltrating SHIELD,Bucky living a decent-ish life,The Red Room being destroyed earlier than in the original timeline.
My understanding of the Eternals thing was that Kingo became the Prime Eternal after Agatha took the powers from the other Eternals, in which case Arishem would have told him the plan
Episode 1 was definitely a bomb. Everyone gets robots because they couldn’t think of a better way to fight Hulk gremlins? At least make each the equivalent of when they Voltroned together. All they really needed to do was use Pym particles to shrink tanks and sprinkle in their food, then expand inside them.
Pym particles are too OP
Agatha being able to take Eternal power is silly, not What If...?
What Ifs, even in the comics, deliberately go off the rails all the time. It's more the execution.
It would have been cool if we saw how each of the mechs used the characters abilities in some way.
ngl I wish that the first episode was animated in the style of the avengers show in the ep. I feel like they would be able to do more stylized action in that style that was more dynamic and fun. Plus, I found it a bit confusing for them to start with the intro and then have the Watcher reexplain everything that was in that sequence... At first I thought they traveled in time and then wasn't sure if the cold open was a flash forward. I feel like time could have spent better having the entire background story in the fake show's intro or leave it for just the Watcher to explain all in one go.
All those mechs and not one of them is unique. Sam didn’t use the shield, Shang Chi used the rings to punch, etc, etc. They all just fired lasers and missiles, it was so unimaginative.
why does monica need a mech is a better question. she is a light god.
Prolly not in that timeline
You may have not noticed the lack of Wanda in the episode
Episode 1: we have ONE shot to make the Avengers assemble another way. I know... VOLTRON!
so was the first episode a Pacific Rim rip off or Gundam/Voltron
Yes 🤣
It was a reference to me and your mom in the sheets😮😊
Yes
Yes
Loved this Agatha Harkness episode felt so natural
and it was super fun
If I see Captain Carter in anything Marvel in the next 5000 years it will be 5000 years too soon
I’ve been surprised by all the episodes so far. Really enjoyed each of them
As a long-time Mecha fan, one of my problems with Ep 1 is that it felt like the writers didn't care enough about the actual genre they were using
I'm hoping that the first episode was a teaser for an actual show.
I'd would kill for an actual series based on that episode
Problem with the mech episode is I feel it would have benefit far better outsourcing the episode to an animation studio in Japan, hell I feel What If would been better if it was more akin to Love Death Robots and Star Wars Visions when it’s different animation styles each episodes
0:59 Why didn't they call him the Titan or the Devil Hulk? Is it so hard to make a comic book reference to darker Hulk personalities? Do the writers simply not read comics?
I imagine it's to not have to pay comic writers anything that would lead to them asking for a cut for using characters they invented
Because then people would complain about how it's not exactly like the comic book character so just embracing it as an original concept is easier. They already made a reference with the Island Bruce was on being from the comics I don't think they just don't care.
My favourite thing about this season so far is that it puts the Agent Carter show back into the canon. Gives me hope that they'll maybe make season 3 one day.
To add to the whole rushed vibe of the mech episode, a couple of years ago when What If season 2 was in development, a three-four minute storyboard leaked of one of the episodes for said season, that featured the Avengers in mechs, but whats interesting here is that none of the characters featured in the end product are in that storyboard.
The line-up of Avengers with mechs consisted of Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, and Iron Heart, (and Scarlet Witch is also there and seems to be important but it is unclear if she had a mech or not), but what this has in common with the end product is that it also featured Hulk becoming giant and fighting the big monster, which was not the Apex, but actually Surtur, and the fight ended with the mechs forming around giant Hulk like an armor and the fight going to space, where Hulk sacrifices himself to save everyone, again, like in the end product.
Season 2 of What If famously had a troubled production, and it is speculated (basically confirmed now) that many episodes were planned but they didn't finish them in time, and one of them was the mech episode. This is why, the day the final episode of season 2 aired, they also released a clip of the Bucky/Red Guardian episode of Season 3, fully animated and voice acted. A full year away from it releasing.
Snippets from that episode can be seen in the shards of glass from the intro to season 2, which is, again, confirmation that it was supposed to be in Season 2, but they just didn't have it in time, or they did had it, but felt it best to just wait on it?
Point is, this mech episode clearly was not like this and was reworked completely from the original idea, which is why the line-up we ended up with is so lame in comparison to the other one. Marvel probably just wanted to give these phase 4 characters a boost, logic be damned.
That storyboard is still up on YT, so you should go see it if you haven't already. It's way cooler than what we got.
Ep 1: Pacific Voltron and Hulkzilla vs. Generic kaiju. Why is it so difficult to animate Sebastian Stan? Anthony Mackie still kills it as the best councilor in the MCU.
Ep. 2: why is the Witch using other characters powers? Why is there dancing but no singing when you have Kathryn Hahn? What does alien robots have to do with the witch Agatha Harkness?
"Agatha goes to Hollywood " give me a break of the things you can do and you do this 😂 no thank you
I'm more intrested in finishing creature commandos rn🤷♂️
Celestial Agatha looked like a Final Fantasy boss. Loved it!
I really had the same thoughts about the first episode, didn’t love it at all, all those mechs and most characters didn’t have any character at all. It feels like Shang Chi and Moon Knight, who are two of my favorite additions from phase 4, only have lines that could have been said by anyone else except that one Konshu reference, and they weirdly looked much less like Simu Liu and Oscar Isaac than Monica Rambeau, so there was almost no recognition value for them
they should’ve made the avengers into talking transformers robots. It would’ve actually been interesting for their characters
I’m glad Agatha is getting the love she deserves
thank you for echoing my thoughts back at me!
I couldn't figure out who all was in the mech Avengers roster until way too late (when Moon Knight said "Khonshu..." and Shang-Chi used his rings in the big battle), probably because they weren't named and had different costumes than we've seen them in.
Trying to pull Eternals lore from the depths it had sunk into was tough, and yeah it seems like this is a very different universe if they knew about the celestial egg that early - and were actively protecting it. The dancing was stiff and poses were awkward, like they didn't have anyone with knowledge of dance to correct wonky animations. Arishem really reminded me of Eva Unit 02; Agatha's celestial look will be great for a Marvel Rivals skin.
I kinda watch What If for the actual what if idea normally, and The whole...reallly tame toku reference stuff was boring, but i'll say Episode 3 really hellped me a lot. Red Guardian is a utter delight. Ive always loved him as a character, and Thunderbolts* looks really great due to his inclusion, but the What If really cemented why he's such a goofy idea in the MCU in a way im actually okay with. I kinda don't mind the weirdness of tone and scale of the season, because so far it's felt a lot more interesting with what we have.
I did enjoy the (possibly) metagag of the Hollywood episode saying the end of a movie needing a big goofy fight.
Feige’s restricting them. Certain characters and stories were turned down because Feige wanted to save that for the live action movies
They need to do a cartoon in the style of that first episode's intro! I was so disappointed when they pulled the camera out lol
Yknow Its a weird situation where it'd probably be more expensive to animate something aping a 1970s extremely limited-animation show.
I honestly had no idea that Moon Knight was in Ep 1 until the end credits. His human character model just looked like another Bucky, I didn't recognize Oscar Isaac's voice and I didn't notice the crescents on his mech because the fight scene skipped to the combination moment so fast.
It's so bizarre that *this* is the first time Moon Knight actually interacts with the rest of the MCU, but I'm glad Oscar Isaac was up for it. I just wish I actually appreciated it when I was actually, y'know, watching it *happen*...
Similarly, as someone who actually really enjoyed "The Eternals", I'm glad Marvel Studios hasn't completely decided to sweep the existence of that film under the rug. Maybe this means Black Knight will still join the Avengers? Although, that seems like it might still be tied to some form of a "Blade" movie getting made eventually...
I always thought of What if as Marvel's way of test driving MCU concepts like "Evil Doctor Strange" or "Captain Carter".
I'm catching up on these, and I'm currently through episode 5. I wonder if there was another episode that got scrapped and replaced with the mech episode on a compressed timetable because episode 1 feels a lot more slapped together, whereas 2 through 5 feel a lot more fully realized. Still enjoyed episode 1, but wish we'd had more action from the mechs.
6:54 My biggest disappointment with Eternals was they didn't take the chance to insert them into MCU prehistoric moments. A scene of Gilgamesh helping Thor protect the hidden Tesseract. A scene of Makkari trying to get the 10 Rings but withdraw when they see it is too late. A different perspective that shows Phastos was one of Dr Erskines lab assistant on the day Captain America was made. Don't derail the story but choose different things to spend time on than they did.
We need a Pitch Meeting series for season 3
Episode 1 was just a commercial for Marvel Mech toys
Episode 2 felt like marvels the producers
Merry Christmas - Episode 3 sparked an idea for a MCU movie: The Red Guardian & The Winter Soldier. Shot in black and white with a Logan-esque tone and set in the year before the events of Cap 2, Alexei and Bucky are sent on a mission by the Russian government to America (I’ll leave it up to you to decide what). Movie ends with Bucky being brainwashed again, similar to the end of the What If episode, and sent on the mission to confront Cap. An interesting corner of the MCU not yet explored!
If there is character we love, Let's not show them but some other version on them that we don't care about
I feel like we're overthinking the concept of putting the Avengers in mechs to punch giant monsters here? I don't know, the mech episode was a blast and had a real "just go with it" vibe for me.
Can’t believe ep 2 was better then 1 feel like they blew the mech premises so bad
I've said since What If? was announced that it could have been Marvel's Love, Death, and Robots.
Was I the only one who found the what if episode 1 to be just disturbing? I mean if you don’t think about the mecha and monsters but focus on the characters , you realized just how big of an ego they have and are just completely badly written. Like Bruce separated himself from the hulk then what? Leave to live in an island alone while forgetting the thousands of people died due to the hulk monster he caused? Then when Sam comes to recruit him to help him, what does he do? Just gives him a hard drive that apparently he was just waiting for someone to come and get it? Also like Bruce didn’t want to help cause he was just so petty that he focused on himself feeling bad and not the hundreds of people that died due to his stupidity, like gut over yourself, Spider-Man doesn’t take a day off and the writers literally put him through hell yet that doesn’t stop him from being a hero.
Your issues with episode one makes no sense. Just because a hero has powers and fought monsters in the main MCU timeline doesn’t mean that was or is the case in this ultimate reality.
This show is called “What If” This show isn’t designed for ppl to attach what happens in each episode to any main storyline from the main MCU canon from the past.
The first episode imo was better than the last two. Definitely more fun and much more interesting. Plus, seeing Sam as Cap and Hulkzilla was my favorite parts
Season 3 has been dumb fun. I love it!
Lowkey for what if, some of ideas sounds lame on paper and then the episode plays and the plot is great like Episode 2
I feel like the dialogue this season so far has been non-stop quips and jokes. I imagine this is what people that hate the MCU think the MCU is written. "Oh he's behind me isn't it", "Well that just happened" type of dialogue. Also this show is visually is way too glossy for me, it looks like the 'camera' is smeared in vaseline, the bloom and glare is out of this world it looks like The Hobbit movies with its shininess. I dunno maybe seasons 1 and 2 were like this I forget but so far this season hasn't been for me and I'm an MCU die-hard. It doesn't feel like these guys are making the most of the premise.
What? I didn't even realize they had Moon Knight. I thought that was just Bucky
I loved both episodes i understand why the first episode may annoy you but if you look at it as a Pacific rim avengers you'll see it entertaining
Episode 3 is pretty much the best of the season by default
Honestly, they should've just made this series straight up anthologies without any real connections to each other. Random stories without crossing over. More time to be more creative and not needing to end the series with a big final battle or whatever.
I was super excited for episode 1 of this season for one reason and one reason only: Moon Knight. I was SO excited to see him more here!! I wanted to know how he met the team, how he met the avengers, what the others thought of his relationship with Konshu, the interactions with Steven, stuff like that. I was there for the character interactions, and I was disappointed- there wasn't a lot of that. but from what I saw, I feel like it wasn't the writer's fault. I think what if could be/have been really good if the episodes were longer and had more time to develop their concepts. I like the idea of just letting the writers write what they want to write.- that's how you get good stuff.
Luckily, as a Fnaf and Pokemon fan, I am no stranger to filling in the gaps myself. I spent a solid hour after watching imagining how Marc and Konshu got involved and I very much enjoyed it. And his mech was SO COOL. So cool.
did anyone felt like it was on 2x speed cause i definitely wanted each episode to have more time for pacing.
Episode 1 made me want a leopardon and japanese spiderman toy.
It’s my fav season so far
the first episode, just made me want a hulk mini series. I mean we have seen so much of his characeter developement and advenures occur off screen. why not do it on screen, in an animiated series.?
Somehow a CGI animated show that has the budget from Disney/Marvel themselves can’t execute mecha as hard as a random weekly mecha anime show in the 90s
Still waiting for the "What if Galactus needed quick cash?" episode.
Probably after Secret Wars if the show continues after the 2 Avengers movies.
Did anyone else think that every Mark Ruffalo line was really wooden and bad? Maybe he's just not used to voice acting, they're two different animals
The premises of the what if comic books were so good. Sad there not doing crazier concepts. Also sad COVID made them cut the episodes down from an hour each:(
I actually like the first two episodes, as the first was a nice Voltron/Power Rangers tribute with an interesting premise and the latter was a lighter, better Agatha-centered scenario than that pointless post-WandaVision show.
Howard Stark in episode 2 reminds me of Varrik from Korra
I have the opposite view from you on this. I really liked episode 1 with all the mechs. It felt like a completely different world and story and I enjoyed the big punch ups.
Episode 2 I thought was more of a sketch than an episode. I found the dancing animations really really bad and the only person who felt like their actual character was Kingo (only because he was doing stuff we have seen him do before). Agatha didnt look or act like Agatha to me (until she became a super witch at the end). Howard Stark was bizarre. I really didnt enjoy it.
Why would they *open* with the episode hurt most from budget problems?
Cuz mecha are cheesy good Voltron Marvel...great stories awesome animation. 💜 Love how they all connect
To me, I want this season to be, since it'll be the last, throwing ideas and concepts. I want it to be fun!
The first episode is just the writers trying desperately to rewrite Pacific Rim 2
I find it kind of hilarious that they straight-up gave at least one of the mechs a Gundam face, sometimes I wonder if Disney forgets they don't own literally everything.
There are a billion CCP funded Chinese mech toys looks almost exactly like some worse version of Gundam, if those are OK then this one is absolutely fine.
episode five is easily the best of the season