Are Fashion Collaborations Done?
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- Опубліковано 5 бер 2023
- Are collaborations stupid? I think the whole world may have rolled their eyes at the Tiffany x Nike collaboration that was just released but it’s a bit more complicated than that. This week, we explore male models and the expression of gender and masculinity in fashion, why Pitti Uomo is the best (and why I can’t cover it quite yet), the best graphics in fashion thanks to Yohji Yamamoto, Vivienne Westwood, Loewe and Undercover, and the greatest fashion engineer of all time.
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Loved this episode. Please consider sometime doing a critique on ageism in fashion, since you're already speaking on body diversity. I'm a fashion designer, in my early 40s, and I myself find it hardly impossible to relate to any of the runway models, except for maybe more recent shows in Pitti Uomo (Martine Rose and another I can't recall). Yohji and Vivienne do include older people. In reality, it's people over 40 who have more money to buy designer so this youth obsession seems so boring and unexplored. Would love your take on it!
Absolutely
Agree
very true
about models. I believe it was late 90s when models started marching down runways without an expression or twirling about or clowning. that brought us to train our eye on the clothes not some pretty models
maybe i interpreted the question differently, but i think high fashion’s reluctance to explore different types of masculinity is not just a body image issue but also one of the patriarchy. a “women can elevate their fashion by bringing in masculine features, but we wouldn’t want men to lower themselves by introducing something feminine to their clothes would we?!” type thing. (maybe i’m way off base here, my sociology knowledge is better than my fashion history knowledge lol)
I’ve been following Iris Van Herpen’s work for years as she deals more with pushing and combining construction methodology. Tho none of it falls in anything I’d wear I love how things are made and the final results are always awe inspiring.
The See Jungle Supreme Shirt is taken from a song by Bow Wow Wow which was made and managed by Malcolm McLaren
Always great learnings… I love the note about ‘unknown collaborations’
And about masculinity… never thought about it but I agree we need more diverse body types for men’s shows/fashion
If there is one thing I want to bring up in the "why are all these models are skinny?" debate, is that I think part of it stems from the problem that clothing became REALLY impersonal. There used to be this idea that I'm going to put this dress or suit on the ideal model, but as the person who can make the clothes, I can make you look this way. That's what sewing clothes used to be about, manipulation of the body form with fabric construction. Yes, they show young and skinny models down the runway, but who were buying the clothes? Typically, older women of wealth. Now people don't have the patience to tailor their clothing to their body. As an anecdote, I remember my sewing teacher told us about a client she had that had polio when she was younger, thus one leg was slightly shorter than the other and her pants always looked off. So, she put to use her skills and made some pants that were perfectly balance for her body. Ended up making her entire wardrobe. People are so focused on what's on the runway that they forget that that is just the idea, the clothes should work for you. But these days everyone wants everything to fit perfectly and see their exact body down the runway.
Not everybody has the time, money or ability to alter their own clothing. Someone could be living paycheck to paycheck (me!) (sewing supplies are EXPENSIVE and the cheap dollar store sewing kit isn't going to cut it I promise), some people work 12 hour shifts or have children or have a sleeping disorder where they need 16hours of sleep a day (also me!). Some people have mobility or pain issues that make sewing a horrible ordeal or impossible (me again!) It's not a lack of patience but a lack of ability. Learning a new skill takes time, money, ability and effort that most people can't put in. I do it, and the only reason I'm able to is because I don't work and save up money over a long period of time. Most of my money goes towards medical expenses. And while my specific case is unique, blockades that keep people from doing this aren't. Some people don't even have the SPACE to set up a sewing area! They may live in a homeless shelter, a studio apartment, or have 5 roommates because they can't afford rent. You can't just say that people arent patient enough to do something that could improve their life without considering potential barriers. This isnt a mindset problem, its a resource problem.
If we are looking at collaborations with an artistic eye, the pieces that are not plastered all over Instagram, but still manage to hold their value (if not be worth more) and show elements from each brand are the best. A certain one that comes to mind is The North Face Margiela collab. The jackets are so cool!
Oh and I would totally cry if I ever attended a Rick show! I couldn’t hold in all that emotion and excitement. Being a twin close to soon separate as we come to age, I was weeping when I watch Gucci’s twin show.
The writing was on the wall, it literally said " supreme ". Let's be fair a lot of shoes handbags and accessories especially jeans have never been produced by the person whose name is tacked on the back. Just throwing a name on things and calling it a collaboration is basically how supreme became what they were.
Peace n’ love from chocolate city. I can’t stress enough that Bliss’s patron is worth it. I doesn’t break the bank n’ is worth erry dollar u spend
The yellow Supreme shirt is the full title of Bow Wow Wow’s debut album from 1981 and creatively directed/produced/managed by Malcom McLaren.
the words on the SUPREME tee are a quote from the lyrics of 'Jungle Boy' by BOW WOW WOW, a band invented by Malcolm Maclaren and they wore Vivienne Westwood in promo shoots and live.
Great thumbnail, thank you, that man rescued all of us tagged with an unfortunate name long ago. I tell folks my middle name is now 'Intensifies'
7:47 there are some interesting phrases on some of the Chinese clothes I have. How am I not going to wear 'happy healthy cowboy' jeans?
IMO, body inclusivity in men's fashion hasn't been pushed because male body image is far less of a hot topic (understandably) than female body image, and women's fashion STILL doesn't have representation. Of the shows I watch Yohji seems to be the most "inclusive", but also because his clothes are so flexible. But re: not making larger sizes, I'm sure they would if it did make financial sense. When I used to play in bands and make merch we would get only a few xls and xxl made and zero xxxls, because they would rarely sell. This was even with an extremely flexible production model where the screen printing is the same the only difference is you order some extra shirts. Grading extra patterns and making those clothes on the slim chance that they sell is just not worth, especially since there isn't much of a social value marketing upside. But its also a self fulfilling prophecy because it continues the standard of excluding bigger people from fashion. Because "high fashion" clothes are already a niche market, I think it'll be hard to really shake up this approach, I don't think we'll ever have a Rihanna Fenty Beauty moment.
I think ”the industry” or the fashion world is closing its eyes to a lot of problems like obesity. There are ofc hundreds of other problems rarelt touched but why would these artsy rich people do something so uncomfortable when they can be cool and interesting to other rich artsy people (slight exaggeration but you get the point).
The issue is high end fashion is to an extent a status symbol.
While another status symbol being healthy and fit, unless you're in a poor country in which it could indicate access to lots of food and resources i.e wealth.
Essentially that which is symbols for wealth is seen as attractive and status creating. So in Asian countries white skin indicates you don't work outside, thus richer and attractive, while in western countries, a tan indicates that you get to not work and spend time outside, and thus is attractive.
Being overweight is no longer a status symbol in developed countries and so will always have a hard time of meshing with high end fashion unless it becomes a symbol of high status.
That said, in the long run I hope it doesn't since the health negatives on individuals is unnecessary suffering.
That said because obesity/overweightness is generally on the increase, eventually there may be collective of enough people who would pay for such fashion that it becomes a profitable endeavour.
McQueen 'Dante' also a nice example integrating photo into clothing 🖤❤🔥
Yes, and the Gucci x Balenciaga collab proved me right in how brand's jumped in on hype rather than cared for the collab. I highly disliked the graffiti on the "This isn't a gucci bag" Balenciaga purse like, obvi it isn't but it didnt need to be reiterated when we can see the gucci colors and signature placement of the double logo
to be fair, both brands mainly rely on hype and name so its not that suprising. that collab seemed like a massive cash grab
8:03 Supreme SS12 "Origin" Tee. I used to be big Supreme head few years ago, when they still were not bought by lvmh and feels like a skatebording brand(im a skater myself, so that was whole soul of supreme for me). And yes ofc, as a skater who always wants to dress nice, Supreme is one of the reasons why I started learning more about "whole" fashion.
thats my guess at least bc i remember colors of this graphic different. anyway awesome episode Bliss!
You guessed it! The Origin Tee 🦾
Btw, Supreme isn’t owned by LVMH, they’re owned by the VF Group.
Where did this rumor start that they’re owned by LVMH? I’ve heard that a few times now 🤔
@@BlissFoster Thanks Bliss
Im not doing much on insta and this question batch answered so many of my own! Love your work, thanks for educating and delighting us!
for the past five years I have seen more than a few brands - good stuff like Watanabe and Craig Green - releasing larger sizes like xxl and even xxxl. it's simply good business, a lot of money comes from a lot of full figure adults. Unfortunately there remains resentment towards designers only doing skinny because they don't want to see adults in their clothes
Thanks for what you said about all body types being able to wear clothes beautifully. I needed to hear that today.
*MY AUNTIE IS A HOARDER* - She has an 8 bed-roomed house in England that you LITERALLY have to walk between the piles of clothes in little corridors with floor to ceiling-high clothes
She has been buying fashion since 1965 - and she would not just buy ONE - if Vivian Westwood did a dress she liked she would buy it in EVERY colour and maybe wear one of them once.I would guess there are 25,000 items - I need to find a delicate way to talk to the family about NOT just throwing all this stuff in a skip when she dies - cos they LIVE in this house they cant move in >>>
And they hate it.
The footage of the archive reminded me. This stuff needs to be donated to the V&A or the Met.
Yes for sure.
What you may consider doing is offering to go through everything and sort it. Would probably be a ton of fun and you could let her know what stuff to keep+donate to a museum and what stuff you could sell 💫💫
Great episode, love your thoughts on the Rick show at the end🤘
Keep it up B. You excel your self each year. 💥
Collaboration is dilution. But then again if you don't do it there will be so many knockoffs. So much effort and fight to turn nickels into dollars.
I would respectfully mention Geoffrey Beene as an engineering giant.
Watching your channel is like great science fiction.
I cried from the show video… im glad that snobs that stand up and run as last model disappears are becoming past and their place is taken by one who values it more.
Congrats on seeing a live show of your favorite designer 🎉
Great Video. Super informative thank you 😊
Love your pants - they remind me of my Thai fisherman pants (The cotton ones with no ties which fold over)
In the past some Designers have said that they have a Doctor type of relationship with their core customers. Therefor probably Luxury Brands do the same, they know through their Sales people who are their true customers and what type of clothes those customers buy and so they make X amount of pieces that are a guaranteed sale.
Actually, in the history of fashion, the menswear was the first to have major changes and fashion trends, i think
That is an interesting question regarding brand collaborations. One of the things I liked about Supreme is their ability to make certain collabs in the past make more sense. For instance, it made higher end clothing like Undercover, Comme des Garçons, Junya Watanabe, Brooks Brothers, etc more affordable (relatively speaking). Or they made certain collabs with bands and skate companies have higher quality items such as with Thrasher, Baker, Anti-Hero, etc. Your typical skate/band shirt is kinda trash in quality even if the design itself is sick. Now I see collaborations and think of people in suits pointing at charts; not that it never happened before, but it’s so on your face now. Like Supreme made the denim painted trucker with a picture of New York on the back with Swarovski crystals as stars/window reflections. But when they actually did an offices Swarovski collab it was super expensive and didn’t make much sense.
As I’m writing this you just mentioned their designs lol. Also, I like how you mentioned Supreme’s designs with the tone of how the community may react. I’ve collected from them for almost 10 years now and sometimes I’m afraid to mention them on this channel because most people immediately think of box logos and stupid items like the brick. One of, if not the most controversial piece of clothing I own is from Supreme which is called the “Hate” sweater in white. Virtually every time I skate or wear it someone stops me to tell me they ironically love it or hate it or that I shouldn’t wear it.
so my question rises from 2 factors
a) Why does the hype collaborations suck? haha
b) Like he pointed out brand collabs can be soo gooood
This is a great analysis, because tbh brands like supreme are the reason kids nowadays appreciate high quality from their collabs. Fashion may be subective but it can unite people on 1 thing and that is to explore different taste makers. (With great quality of course) thats why its hard to say a brand is bad,rather say its not for me. Its really a snow ball affect that lets you appreciate art at the end of the day.
If I had to guess for the first question, it’s because it’s not really “authentic”. I can mostly speak for Supreme since that’s what I’m more well versed in. I think of collabs like the first Supreme x Undercover. Supreme has always been more counter-culture and that first collaboration was amazing and made sense. And it looked like you could see it either on a runway or some NY kid skating. Certain things they release now is so heavily branded and is just a cheap logo to slap on. Like Supreme releasing a trailer for a pickup truck/RV is completely losing the plot in my opinion. It’s very “We’re richer than ever and so established that we can just call whomever and they’ll say yes.” I’m being very cynical I know, but the clothes come off that way to me. I should’ve seen this coming when I remember they had that controversial “Stallion” long sleeve with a google image of a horse and Supreme on the front. I know a lot hated it at the time. I could make a whole video about Supreme one day, and not just from the whole money side or hype side but as a genuine fan. Sorry for this rant lol.
Just curious where you got that shirt. I love the cut of it
I wish there were collabs that weren't just literally putting Balenciaga over Gucci monogram on a bag. Like there's so many opportunities for the designers to exchange, mix, create something that's a good mix of both brands but they don't. so lackluster.
THANKS FOR THE SHOUTOUT
Huh, good timing on the fashion collaboration, I just received a watch made in partnership between Swatch and Omega... I hope one day I'll get to own a real Swatch.
That shirt you have there is amazing
We live for emergence in complex systems
Can you do a talk on kid super and his beautiful pieces of art on garment plus he has no big school background in fashion, he started ground zero up to high fashion brand *basically would love to hear your view on kidsuper the brand*
I’ve done a feature episode entirely on KS and they were part of a recent PFW review as well 💫💫
I promise when I get a job I will join the patreon😮💨🤝
I only do jjba collabs. Araki is basically a fashion designer anyway
Omg thanks I love u. I have been convincing myself “I don’t care about fashion” since I gained weight the past few years and ughhhhhhhh. Clearly I do but I don’t wanna dress like a kardashian now that I’m “thicc” ?
where do you shop for second hand designer peices
Feeling blessed to be here
Feeling blissed
what was that shirt blurred up, he was referring to?
How many garments are made? Definitely hard to say, I work in retail and wholesale for a french designer. the way the buys are done doesn’t really lend itself to knowing that information. Every country, market, category is different buys with different people. It’s generally just not important information as different regions perform differently. That only becomes important to the public when pieces become coveted after production. Generally nobody is asking about quantities made as soon as the garment is previewed. And pieces are not popularized until being released to the public.
How do we find out about these low key collabs
I wish I knew 🤷
From my experience just be lucky to look at the right brand and the right time
Damn I love that Junya x Innerraum collab, but I'd buy innerraum if it didn't cost me my kidney :v
Clothes engineer: Errolson Hugh.
My answer to the first question is: Only hype collaborations are done. Well, hopefully all hype is done!
Why do I have this tugging feeling that balenciaga kept it safe this season?
The clothes are good, but I don’t know, it might be the space that the runway is held in…
collabs work when both teams care eg. Salehe w/ whoever
Yes
Bliss, you need to consider putting together a media kit. Look into Vanessa Lau's UA-cam video on putting together a media kit. Affiliate marketing creates passive income and makes about 5% of a person's business.
"money left on the table" well said. as "plus size" I can look but can't wear.
your house looks like a wing of the Sir John Soane house museum in London
Haha it’s my parents house, definitely not mine. They bought it from the city (middle of no where) for $1 and were fixing it up throughout my childhood. They really did a good job on that room. All thrift store furniture 🦾
goddammit now I need to know what is printed on that t-shirt
its what Virgil would"ve wanted. Collabs as a language.
I’m actually super disappointed with the Tiffanies x Nike collab. There was an actual opportunity there to have cool, jewelry-esque metal work built into the shoes.
But no. Just a teal on black color scheme.
Well, as long as it sells clothes and shoes and make the shareholders of the company rich, why should colloboration be done ?
8:00 is it "l'origine du monde" ?
Literally the first person to get it 💫💫
they will probably never be over but certainly are overdone lately
wow i've never been so early
At what size should designers stop making sizes? It’s never ending nor cost effective.
I’ll definitely acknowledge that size inclusivity is more complicated than flipping a switch, but it is certainly not never ending.
Most brands we cover on this channel barely make a French dress size 40, and when they do they make so few of them. It is not unreasonable to expect them to fix that problem.
@@BlissFoster It was a rhetorical question.
Hi
Nikeiffany!
My man. It's Segue, not seg. It's pronounced the same way as Segway. I'm sorry. I love you.
Yuh
they never were Not Done.
8:06 is that the blood and semen drop?
Nope 😅
Masculinity in fashion isn't explored a lot because men are most beautiful when naked and women when dressed 😅
I would say the opposite
I love your content...it's really smart, researched, and thoughtful. BUT your commentary regarding body sizes is disingenuous. You're what...6'2, 160 lbs? With a chiseled face, white skin, and great hair. Be honest: these truths are a significant factor driving your access to the backstage fashion crowd. You are benefitting from the same legacy, pervasive privileges that have been defining fashion for decades. Here's an idea: call designers out in your interviews if size diversity is something you (actually) care about. Unfortunately, I'm guessing you'll keep leaning on your pretty privledge vs fight the good fight.