These VR Prototypes RUINED Me...
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- At SID Displayweek 2023, the big thing on the showfloor for VR was doing 4K x 4K per eye. I put my eyes up to every single one I could find. And it has ruined every HMD I've used before this
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#VR #technology #oled
Orlando Brad
Bradlo Bloom
@@damianabregba7476 😂😂😂😂
The Bradley Bunch
Bradley Pitt
i was going to say Florida Brad but Orlando is way more accurrate.
Brad, thank you so very much for all the work you do to keep us on track with the technology. I really appreciate your content and the details you share. While you're highly technical, you have a way of explaining things in a way that is understandable for people who aren't as technical.
Brad is the only reliable VR focused channel that i know. All the others are just overhypers.
I could imagine all these tech stooges scurrying to their stations when they see Bradley's imposing figure approaching, coming to smell your trinkets. They are polishing lenses, resetting demos, inverting farts.
Like when Anton Ego enters a restaurant in Ratatouille, it is light chaos. Everything must work perfectly yes, but they know that Bradley gaze is fickle like a cat's and you can never tell what catches his fancy or scoff. Eye relief? Sweet spot? Edge clarity? Uniformity? Their mind races to the clouds and rests with a sigh: -Alas! Arduous is the verve of the display merchant.
lol inverting farts...
Poetic
I honestly think meta partnering with this company to bring 4K per eye resolution to their headset would be really really beneficial for them. The quest 4 having 4K resolution PER EYE when it releases in a few years from now? Sounds great to me!
@@pvrvlyze_02 Sounds like 10min of battery life and games that edge on ipad-baby-apps level of processing power.
No thanks.
Inverting farts sounds very risky. Better out than in as they say. I can picture synchronised fart relief once Bradley has moved on from their display stand.
This hairstyle suits you so well Brad you are majestic ngl like King of Narnia or lord of the rings vibe
he looks 10,000x better
As always, I am here for the tech and I use your videos to stay informed. But gotta say I'm LOVING the new hair, you're letting it flow!
thanks :D
It's almost distracting it's so lush and flowy.
I’m predicting we’ll see a man bun on this man soon!
@@foxriver9156 we can only pray such a sight graces our eyes
I think where there's a lot to win is FOV. Right now it usually maxes out at 110. Both eyes can get near 180 degrees. This gives me the feeling looking through two toilet paper rolls.
please stop saying 4k per eye, there are so many things that could mean, from 3840x2160 (8.3mp) to 2560x2560 (6.5mp), 2160x2160 (4.6mp) and now this 3552x3840 (13.6mp), that isnt even near the original 8.3mp of '4k'. Please just say the number so everyone knows what you are talking about instead of 'doing a dell' (they call 5120x2160 '5k2k' instead of a 4k ultrawide, which is what it is). TLDR, stop saying 4k when it is not a 3840x2160 screen.
I agree. It made the video a bit confusing.
my only concern with 4k x 4k is how hard is to render for that resolution.
i don't know if qualcomm has a new method for fsr or something but that is going to be hard to drive with the current generation of xr2, even for a pc will be hard if you don't have a new nvidia or amd card
It's a valid concern. I think the push for these resolutions is gonna be extremely useful for non-gaming scenarios such as monitor replacement. And anything outside of that will require foveation and upscaling
yea. Unless foveated rendering becomes the norm
@@namegoeshere197 Foveated rendering is really underwhelming on current PSVR2 - 1st party games are using foveated rendering and yet run at 60fps.
An actual use case for Nvidia's claimed "8K capable" GPU 😂
Seriously though, these are going to be a challenge to drive for the next gen or two of GPUs.
I look forward to my computer whimpering in the corner... Or is that howling?
@@SimplexPL It is helping more than you think it is, but at the same time, it helping less too. The higher the FoV and Res - the more work FFR/DFR can do more magic in terms of performance gains. PSVR is both not high enough in both areas to take full use of it and yet still is giving back 30% more performance. FFR/DFR will give back the same amount of performance - the difference is just that its dymanic with eye tracking thus all areas where you look is /will be in full detail vs just the center. VR in general is already demanding even on a console. Let alone on a mobile SoC. New rendering methods havent been added for DFR such as DCulling - Normal Culling but uses eye tracking to pop objects in and out. Game engines also dont fully support DFR such as UR5 nanite that also scales groping of meshes base on where/how close the camera(s) are to an object/res for high detail objects.
Just another year or two and everyone should be able to get a reasonably-priced, 'near reality' VR experience. We're getting so close now.
It's crazy how this is becoming reality now.
At the end of the day, just goes to show how many years have passed.
Rift CV1 launched in 2016. That's 7 years ago. so by the time everyone can get this in their hands and on their face, 8-9 years.
Apple's headset is this year- but that will be potentially $3000.
It felt like things are moving fast, but considering this, it sounds about right. Back when Rift CV launched I would have thought we'd have at least this display technology in 7-9 years.
The time has come.
@@zackmac5917 I would put all I had into a system that would get me closer to true VR. Nothing can take away my memory of standing at that opening menu in the trailer of Arizona Sunshine and hearing zombies outside and actually saying out loud "hello?" I kept thinking to myself after all those movies, now man you'll get to live briefly in this zombie land. Now we just need 100' walking space, real live visuals and smell? Hope I live long enough. 😀
I'd argue Apple's Vision Pro is pretty damn close if not already there. And it's only their first gen headset. Only way is up.
Never really thought about Apple definitely doing displays right in their headset. My iPad Pro M2 has probably the best display I've ever seen. Just such a warm and natural looking.
I'm really excited about their showcase. I'm sure they have some software ideas that haven't been explored enough.
oh thank you for this, this is awesome! and I just can't help but be craving for vr news rn with the upcoming events in june
also need that 240 degree pancake stitch thing news STAT! things are really coming together for vr in recent months, it's exciting after plenty of stale years just digging into valve time
Sick! Now someone PLEASE pair these with a headset that can do eye tracking. That’s all we need
I could pretty clearly sense his excitement for what's coming in this video. You know it's real when even Brad is trying create hype for something...
"Very soon" as in 2024? 2025? I feel like 2.5k Oled displays have been "very soon" since 2020. Thank you for the vid, it's always great to see new tech! Hopefully we all get to experience this new tech "very soon" as well!
Yes, 1-2 years is about right.
But some very expensive headsets like Apple's, is likely to have such a display this year.
Others will follow suit and buy the time they go through development to market, 1-2 years.
With Apple headset finally coming. I wonder how much longer we will have to wait until Deckard. If we could expect Valve shadow drop their headset? Becuase Index isn't getting younger and even if it's still amazing headset. It starts lacking in various aspects. With new wave of headsets, especially higher-end like one from apple who will not only get upperhand now, but will also lure people into their vr ecosystem, to tie up customer base for the future AND block of course others from it, will just leave smaller and smaller piece of that pie for Valve to have so they surely can't wait forever with releasing anything. Either hardware of at least software that will be an argument to at least stay on index/steam and wait for their next product
Deckard is not going to compete in specs with Apple's headset and it shouldn't. Even Index was far too expensive to build a gaming ecosystem (even indie developers need many millions of active users to risk it), which is what Steam is all about (and Valve doing VR is all about Steam). Gaben probably realized that, because he noticed how well (relatively speaking) Quest 2 was doing and his strategy with Steam Deck was to prioritize pricing over image quality. I give it 60% chance Deckard will use LCDs and will be low cost oriented. A good idea would be two SKUs - one low end to build the ecosystem and one "halo" product for enthusiasts. But Gaben always prefers other companies to do this job (he never wanted to do any hardware).
I'd love to see a valve headset but we're working on "Valve Time" so I've set my expectations as such.
I think Valve can afford to wait because Apple and Meta will not pose a significant threat in the Gaming space and take away Valve's mindshare anytime soon. Gamers are known for hating Apple and Facebook.
how is apple going to to steal vr from the gaming space?
You can barely game on a mac, let alone vr. Apple HMD working on windows and linux? pfft yeah I'm sure apple will let that happen lol.
I'd pick the 3.5K + 30-120Hz display out of all those since those specs feel usable, and hopefully future tech can make full 4K per eye work at 90Hz work in gaming soon!
*waits for christmas to upgrade HMD*
displays are finally "there" this is great!
Good stuff Brad. Looking forward to getting my hands on one of these 4k per eye micro-oled headsets. Don't want to sidegrade from my trusty old O+ for an LCD!
Excellent!!! I was thinking about the Varjo Aero & the Pimax Crystal but I shall wait & see what the future shall bring. WooHoo!
Thank you kind sir for your valuable insights! Keep em coming! ❤
I'll start calling Micro-OLED 'MOLED' if y'all are ready
This is EXTEAMLY Exciting!
This sounds awesome Brad. Currently I'm happy with the Quest Pro and neither the Bigscreen Beyond or Crystal feel enough of an upgrade to justify splashing out another £1500 this year, but those microOLEDs sound insane.
Do you have any idea when they might make it into consumer headsets? Are we likely to see something like this towards the end of next year or are we still some years out? Do you expect these headsets would be around the current high premium pricepoint of $1500 or are we likely to get an exponential price jump again?
Man, we've come a long way since the days of DK2. Wow, just wow, the future looks bright, boys.
Weren't there also plans to use lasers for printing the image directly on your retina? This came back to my mind as I read your twiter post "Laser backlit LCDs for VR with 10,000 nits". But that's just a very bright LCD...
Still a lot of issues with trying that. Most companies have given up
I think the Apple VR headset will cost $2k and I think I will have to buy it because Hideo Kojima was spotted at Apple HQ, filming a presentation.
I still wouldn't buy it if it isn't steamVR compatible.
And I guess if it was, not sure how we could run it with current gpus, unless with downscaled resolution.
Isn't hideo Kojima making a movie? That would make sense.
@@zackmac5917 Rumors are pointing to Apple going all in on games. Unreal Engine 5 supports Apple silicon natively.
@@djp1234 I'd be genuinely suprised if the games are graphically anything at all impressive.
The displays will be insane, probably like this, 4K x 4K per eye.
But the graphics? That's a lot of resolution to run on what is a mobile chip (M2).
The graphics will probably look closer to Quest 2.
As a PCVR player, I'm just not interested in mobile VR.
But the resolution and colours will be out of this world.
@@zackmac5917 Apple silicon is capable of amazing graphics. I just hope developers won’t keep making shitty cartoon games.
@@djp1234 It really depends on which M2 chip.
M2, M2 Pro, or M2 max?
Good for integrated graphics.
The M2 is roughly on par with a Nvidia 1060.
Ultimately, it's not powerful at all compared to GPUs in a PC.
But remember, they need to render those graphics at super high resolution too.
Imagine running a PCVR level of graphics game with a 1060, at 4k x 4k per eye.....
It will look more like mobile graphics than what we see with PCVR.
But I would love to be suprised!
I agree about shitty cartoon games, hope they don't make them. But I'm not sure the (base) M2 chip can handle much more at 4K x 4K per eye.
M2 Max is significantly better.
4:04: I want someone to look at me like Brad looks at that display.
If Brad is impressed, it's some good shit
Thanks for the video Brad
When to buy? Take one of my kidneys!
Firing it up with 4 4090s working in double SLI
LOL
The future of VR is getting very exciting
Can we please get off "Metaverse" being a "BAD" word just because of Zuckerberg. The term was first coined in the book snow crash by Neal Stephenson (1992) It's not going away!
That headset you mentioned at the end seems really cool tbh, been waiting to see how we get higher FOV without also strapping an enormous semicircle to your head
Another great vid! Looking forward to the rest of this exciting display week! What a time to be alive!
So this means, Pimax has finally a competitor, if some company is going to use those optics (shown at the end). This will most likely have Pimax forced to drop down their ridiculous price classes. I once said on reddit, and will say it again, Pimax's 12K will be DOA, because some other company will be offering the at least nearly, same or (yet proven) wider FOV than Pimax, with high probability, at a lower price.
Fun Fact, the human eye can only see up to a peripheral view degree of 200~218°, FOV (commonly on the Ø human: 210°). Going for 240° is overkill.
Pimax ridiculous price? Man have you heard of Varjo and XTAL? I don't like Pimax but till today, they're the only one offering 35 PPD headset with cheap price around 1500 USD.
@@森里螢一-f3c xtal is at least offering a high end WORKING product with the necessary equipment to make it run. That is at least something you can buy with a good mind and without regretting it.
Varjo is not a good example. It is also overpriced for the set you get: just the HMD. And you also pay a monthly (or was it yearly?) fee for having the headset. It is clearly focused and aimed for B2B practices, not for end consumers.
Pimax delivers only a great fov (if it is working properly), while the software sucks, the plug and play function still not being newbie friendly, the cable quality being still the worst, lots of problems with reprojection and parallax and windows' hardware acceleration, and more. And btw, the new controllers on the crystal are having huge problems with occlusion and are not tracking very accurate.
Mmm, far as I know these headsets (the one showing at the end) last year had artifacts still let alone the fact they had to use 4 displays (making it cost more than Pimax in the end). Depends on what he shows, but I have a feeling even if they went into mass production, their headset will still cost more than Pimax for about the same specs let alone they don't have controllers or other tracking methods (not to say they couldnt get XR(x) and then use their software/tracking method) - but it would be much like how Pimax is now or worst. Normally that company designs and sells their technology instead.... so your Oculus and whatever's might get access to something like in the future. I dont really have a foot in the race there, but I say they all have their pros and cons and they're all about the same when you break ti down to what features and support they all have making them all a competitor to each other. Pimax is still cheaper than the other two is a fact for the features you are getting, but of course comes with trade offs much like anything else.
Apple just announced their headset with 4k per eye (like 30mil pixels?)
Bradley you are the VR version of John Paul Stapp.
Apple Vision at 90hz confirmed ?!
That last one I have heard of it ! Can't wait to hear more about it. The idea seems soo cool and feels future like in terms of adding more FoV without crazy bending of optics. If they can demo off it really working without last generation artifacts I think they have something LARGE up coming for VR. We're still out 5 more years for what I would call the prefect headset, but we're getting closer and closer:P
Thanks for all these extra tech video's, really enjoying learning about new stuff :)
Thanks for keeping us in the know Brad! Hope this technology progresses quickly!
It's nice to see you in awe for once
Text
Pixel matters thanks for sharing main problem I see here is 2x 4k or 8K at 120 Herz in games, currently this can't be good progressed even with a 4090 . I have a 5k HTC vive pro 2 and even I don't address the full 5K in Games but the screndoor effect is almost gone.
Thanks Brad.
oh baby 5000 nits is where we should be anyway for all displays now.
I’m so ready to never use an LCD headset again.
👍
Brad is the man. Quality content as always.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving displays with 4k optics but fov is my number one problem with modern headsets.
Fov is king.
thought so too.. liked the more of FOV with Index a lot over Quest, REverb, Odyssey+...
bought an Pimax AND: was disapointed...
its important to get over that 110° FOV of the Quests and cos...
but its not realy needed to get the long distance to 180°... like the Pimax ones
in my opionion.. something like the Index at closest setting (or Pico4 without Face-Gasket): is already very fine
the step to Pimax-FOV feels much less impressive as the numbers suggest
So hype! Your videos feel like they’re straight out of the future. Thanks for all the exciting news
the future is always promising
It is amazing the break next speed VR displays have been moving at over the last few years. I'm super excited for the next video. I know when you're in the middle of a game It doesn't matter as much but I'm honestly waiting for a headset above the 120° mark and is smaller than a piemax
Basically this is Brad's next video the stitched together pancake lenses with small form factor - could be a bigger impact thank 4k VR.
@@dtrjones Great paraphrase. I made the comment in response the last 15 seconds of the video.
@@fablegarmeth6897 Ah sorry, yes exciting times coming in VR!
Doesn't make more sense to refere to the screen as 8k? 4k normally denotes horrizontal resolution. Saying 4k per eye sounds like sound like "all the pixels of a 4k tv per eye. Which is like half the resolution that the actual headset gives to each eye.
Naming standards are always a problem haha.. display industry just calls it 4K per eye, though so far
Nice one Brad, this gets me even more hyped for VR. Love these high resolution displays. My trusty G2 is pretty clear in the centre and just to have something which could give that panel justice would be amazing, but to think these 4K displays will be approximately 4 times the resolution of my G2 is just mind-boggling!
On that resolution size btw. 4K really is true 4K I.e. @ 2:06 you can see the 4K display labelled as "4K4K" so it's different to a 4K TV which is "4K2K" (I.e. 3840 x 2160)
The label is a bit of false marketing, @0:42 he showed the actual resolution for the panel, which is 3552x3840(so, more like 3.5K x 4K). That gives around 3x the total pixels of the Reverb G2, which will make it a bit more manageable to render than 4 times.
Florida Man and the Attack of the Nits
These new ones sound like what are in the Vision pro.
sadly its bradley looking like a presentable human being for once
Thanks for the update king
Blows my mind they can even do that on a mobile chipset. I'm pretty confident the Q3 will barely have a resolution bump, so it's gonna be many years before I see what 4K per eye looks like, but if it's anything close to the jump from 1080p to 4K in general, we're in for a treat.
Now the hard part...making 8k gaming actually REASONABLY achievable
Thanks again for the great video!
Sorry for my ignorange but how much PPD would make these 4K per eye screens? Like, Pimax Crystal has 35 PPD and he didn't say near real visuals for that headset. Is Apple's headset gonna have better visuals than the Crystal?
It definitely depends on FoV. But even if a HMD uses the standard 100, you'd start at around 40 average PPD at least. Can go up from there depending on the focusing of the lenses
@@SadlyItsBradley Now I see, thank you very very much! Also very good video!
uOLED my beloved
Nice hair Brad
Like I tell people this is just the beginning of VR. The flip phone Era so to speak. When we have whole field of view, crystal clear images that focus like our eyes do. Then we have just touched first base. This is only the beginning.
Sounds like Oled will be in the $$$ HMD and the led will be in cheaper ones. VR will slowly become a tier system.
True, I think VR headsets with this mOLEDs will be not that cheap.
Considering that 2160x2160 gets called 4k I guess they are going to claim these are 8k?
Resolution keeps improving but are they keeping up with the improvements to motion? what persistence (mprt) do those displays achieve? It needs to be a minimum of 0.3ms and what's the average brightness doing that?.
imo they should just develop dedicated re-projection silicon and update the display at 4000hz low persistence with no brightness loss and way less stroboscopic artifacts.
Thanks, Bräd
Love the hair!!
really exciting, thank you
This made me even more excited for next month!
Having single-pixel things that cycle between colors is a super-old technology, mostly used in DLP displays but there have also been a few other exotic displays that use it. Technology Connections did a video on a CRT that worked that way a few years back. Personally I'm not a fan of that color multiplexing technique because I'm sensitive to the rainbow shimmer; 1DLP TVs always gave me a headache because I'd see a big flash of color every time I had a saccade.
Brad, awesome video but... Apple... knowing how to make displays for their products...? Didn't they just started using OLED on their phones... like a whole ass DECADE late?
people call the apple headset 4k but we'll see what it ends up being .....I'm thinking something close to beyond like 2880x2880 per eye
My family and I all have Apple ecosystems: iPhone, iPad, MacBook,….
But at estimated $3000, I most definitely will NOT be buying the Apple VR headset.
That is a price for Pro level business, not consumers.
For the record, something in the US priced at $X, will be sold in the UK for £X.
Salaries in the UK are about half of US salaries.
(I.e. Would you pay $6000 for an Apple headset?)
Wiki says 4K is 8M pixels, eg 3840x2160. If so, then pimax crystal is 4K, as it's got 8M pixels. Varjo aero's basically 4K, at 7.8M pixels. Maybe PPD is a better metric.
Brad, there's a fake version of your account that's going around and DM'ing people scam links
_...and it has ruined every HMD I've used before this..._
So what you're saying is that these 'BOE' Displays really ARE "Bind On Equip"? 😺
Omg I’m already getting a headache from this color flicker Headsets.
I heave a really problem with this method of displaying stuff. I also have real problems with Single DPL Beamers, Plasma TVs and cheap LED bulbs. The flickering is really irritating.
And I know that it is worse on camera but I could already see me getting dizzy and sick from these.
I hope valve isn’t going with this technology.
GREAT
Thanks!
The hair and goatee looking good these days Bradley. You gotta be getting close to upgrading your waifu?
4:16 "We _need_ 4K per eye to have a good VR experience"
It's more that we need a suitable PPD/pixel-per-degree. If you could do a video about which PPD is optimal, that would be lovely. I think it prolly needs to be 40+, right?
Thats a lot more than 4k. That resolution per eye more or less means your computer will be driving 8k 90hz. Yeesh.
4k per eye 👁 35 PPD acuity solved.(stand alone or puck designed apple first out off trap with there product (puck designed)..june 5th .Next year we will see other vendors hitting market.
:3 noice
Big screen really needs to delay their launch.
With these displays around the corner, I for one, cannot justify purchasing any headset that isn't 4k per eye.
Ah you bastard, tell us more about this wide-FOV pancake-lenses NOW!
numbers on paper are cool and all 5000 nits this and that.
but how does it actually work practically, well youve seen it urself after trying the displays in headset/bigscreen vr.
you never really talk about energy/heat when running 4kx4k + high nits which is interesting as thats probably holding back these displays from being used in consumer products.
sure they can run these displays in a lab with 5k+ nits or whatever but can you play it for 8hrs a day how much life till the oled's burn out because ur pumping in so much heat.
I keep feeling like when critics compare things and say "oh no no, this is utter dogshit, eww spit spit" then I'm like 'I still can't tell the difference'
A field sequential display could use a third of the energy of a normal lcd at a given brightness, but per subpixel quantum dot color conversion can narrow the gap. As well as a single subpixel per pixel field sequential display having one third the horizontal resolution of a normal lcd.
Sounds like time to ditch the FOV chasing and start making variable lenses, hopefully so that we can get away from the fixed 2 meter focus points and really start to look into the distance with VR!
It would be nice if there was a display that could be a drop-in replacement for the Quest Pro that doesn't have a bright amber glow around the edges. (mine and wife's suffer from this)
Why is this tech so 'here' now, yet... never actually here now for real. I felt like this sort of thing was around the corner 5 years ago.
Now if we can just get these in a reasonably priced headset which doesn't require all the bells and whistles. I just want to fly my virtual plane, and rally some cars. A good hand tracker to flip some switches would be nice.
Hope we can buy BOE in Headsets the next two years - you said for Valve-Oculus ..
Crystal clear lenses and AI random generated environments. Reality is going the way of limewire !!!!
looking at all this stuff makes me excited for whats coming and more, and more clear beyond is just coming in ahead a bit before the other players and suffering for it. Still excited for it because I don't want to wait that "just a bit more" anymore, and their other aspects like form factor and consumer PC VR focus are important to me also but, they are going to have to put out a Beyond 2 in like a single year or not have a competitive product.
“Fun for early adopters” was my video title for beyond exactly due to this reason 😅
Realistically it's going to be 1 year after Beyond's launch at the earliest. For sure likely within 2 years. Sure, that's quite soon, but consider this:
Will we be able to fully take advantage of these displays?
We need better gpus and dynamic foveated rendering needs to become standard.
Bigscreen Beyond, on the other hand, is viable for current gpus. As it stands, 2.5k micro-oled does sound like a sweet spot.
As much as I want 4K x 4K per eye, 2.5k sounds more realistic in what even a 4090 is capable of dealing with.
That being said, as soon as it's available in a PCVR headset, at a semi-reasonable price, I of course want to buy it lol. But likely that will require heavily downscaling the resolution. Even so, it should still look way better, but it would be a lot of wasted potential not being able to fully utilise the native resolution.
And yes, if BSB 1 is successful, I suspect BSB 2 will be within the next 2 years.
Regardless like you said, I don't want to wait another 1-2 years, if a perfectly viable next gen upgrade from my Samsung Odyssey Plus is finally available. I'll take Beyond and then see what happens.
It could be another 2 years and that's 2 years of pure enjoyment of Beyond that I would miss out on.