I am a qualified professional carpenter and have been doing carpentry since 1965 at the age of five years old, am i have restored hundreds of plane's over the years and sharpened and turned them up , i am lefthanded but also use my right hand a lot when planning down, and i make you so right, everyone is different and you need to find your own way that works best for you, nice video and best wishes from the UK.
James: An excellent comparison! I'm just starting to mess with this style of tool and your discussion cuts right through the myths and the hype. What refreshing clarity.
Finally a decent demonstration! Most other videos about the difference between traditional bevel down / low angle bevel up just tell you that you can basically turn your bevel up into a bevel down by using a blade with a different angle and call it a day. Which makes you wonder, if it were just that easy, then why aren't all planes bevel up, why bother with all the extra parts and complexity of a traditional plane...
Great video! Why do I consider this a very important and very correct coverage of the problem of choice - for a simple reason, many craftsmen, especially those who have extensive experience and a lot of knowledge in the use of hand tools, do not see anything incomprehensible and unclear in the coverage of this issue. 62 planes, they are also called “werewolves” in Russian, “cross-cut planes” are considered by beginning craftsmen to be a remedy for the problems of planing complex wood, a low cutting angle, a massive piece of iron, an adjustable mouth - all this is designed to make the process of planing complex areas simple and high-quality, but mostly quality, because it is believed that the more expensive 62 plane will do the job better.But in the video we see a slightly different picture - the knife with the frog is adjusted more precisely, which means it will be better applicable to each specific case, and in fact it cuts simpler and easier! And due to what? Due to the same cutting angle of 45 degrees! We turned the knife with the chamfer upward, but the surface of the upper cutting edge relative to the planing surface is 37 degrees, less than 45 degrees, which means cutting the end fibers is easier, but only the end fibers. The master showed us an excellent carpenter's bottom for planing the ends, the 62 plane copes with this perfectly, you can also use classic planes, but the 62 with an additional handle is a masterpiece in this work.Great video! Explanation of many questions on various planes comes during the discussion of knowledgeable people and showing examples of work! Thanks a lot!
This is the best explanation I’ve found yet to clearly explain the difference without being loaded full of bias toward one or the other. Usually people just talk purely about how the angles are very similar but never mention how the iron is in line or 45° to the cut.
Biggest example of this is the difference in planes anglo-saxon countries to european central countries. Here almost 99% of people use European style wooden planes. Metal planes are often frowned upon and considered bulky, heavy, complicated to use etc. Then add to that the Japanese style of having so many pull-direction tools that some might consider illogical. It's all a matter of style and personal preference. Great video, with great explanations!
I am a serious hobbyist working with as little power tools as possible. I aim to go professional. I am currently planning the purchase of my first set of quality hand planes - I'm Canadian, so it's easy for me to get Veritas products. This video has just helped me figure out what I actually need. Thank you very much for making this material available. Cheers!
One of the best videos I have watched on the differences between low angle and high angle planes. Great job James. Thank you for not saying the bevel up jack plane is the best plane for all tasks.
Hello, new guy who is somewhat starting to use bench planes and looking into the histories and what not of the tools. In my personal opinion the high angle, bevel down design with early modern to today’s metal bench planes are like a legacy design. It does make sense during the time transitioning from wooden body/sole of a bench plane to a metal (bronze/cast iron,) body/sole. If it ain’t broke why fix it mentality when Stanley first started making metal bodies for the plane designs. Since most and probably all of the planes before Stanley’s Bailey design were made with a very hard and dense wood that can handle abuse pretty well. It was probably very difficult to try and either to mortise (cut out,) or a laminated style during the late Victorian time period to early modern period. There is also the chance with the wood too not being durable enough to handle abuse with how thin trying to make a low angle, bevel up design with just wood. Although I could be wrong about the wooden design. Amazing video though, keep a good job making amazing content for wood working
Bubble up low angle planes have been around for hundreds of years. And they are plenty durable. Most of the time they were used for shoulder work or for flattening chopping blocks with end grain. But for general use they were not as common. Not because of their durability just because of their function. Blue Angle plains didn't become popular until after most hand tool use died off in the '70s and '80s.
@@WoodByWright Thanks for the info, I am still somewhat new to these types of tools, never hand to use a bench plane until two years ago. I am always interested into looking into what tools I have used and go into the research mode and have my own assumptions on why or how they worked like that and why this type of designs. Thanks for responds from a video that two years old, most UA-camrs usually don’t bother with how old their vids are and what not. Amazing videos so far that I have seen. Have a wonderful day or night
Thanks! What was great for me was the way you explained the angle and chatter bit earlier in the video. I've watched many others but you explanation really clicked - greatt stuff!
Just came here after watching Mr Sellers video about a similar topic. I must say that you have explained positives and negatives of both planes. Thanks brother.
Your video is much more descriptive than the RC video - more history, and more scenarios of use are described - thank you (and, wow, you really like that Lee Valley custom plane!) (and, yes, get them both, for all of the reasons that you mention - if you do enough different tasks, you may eventually 'need" both)
I have No 5, a low angle Jack, 2 No 4 Stanley, Block plane, plus a rebate plane , plough planes etc etc oh and a Triton thicknesser for stock prep of pallet wood.
I often "brag" that my Subaru Forester is better off-road than a Mazda Miata and corners nicer on twisty mountain highways than a Jeep Wrangler. My Veritas #62 1/2 is kind of a similar deal--it isn't the best at anything, but it's very good at a lot of things. And, like changing tires, changing irons is an easy way to bias the performance in one direction or another.
out of all my planes my veritas bevel up jointer is my favorite, my no. 62 comes in second, then all my bevel down planes... but I recommend having both. the low angle are great all around planes, they take on most woods with ease, but every now and then....
If you are starting out you can do everything with a Stanley No 4. You can joint with it, make wood true, shape with it and you can size would. That should be every beginners starting point if you are experienced and have a feel for it and realize that you can hone things with different tools such as a long angle then go for it. If you are doing easy tearout end grain you may want to get that plane that feels good to you.
I own mostly Bailey style planes with one wooden 17" jointing plane I have set up as a hogger (scrub plane). The only bevel up planes I own are 2 block planes. One for general work and one for shooting and end grain. I agree that there is a definite difference in using a bevel up on end grain and so far, the block planes do what I need. I've held off buying a larger bevel up plane mostly because of the price versus my actual needs. By the way, great explanation of both types, for I believe the 4th time..... LOL!
Great Job James! With your permission, I would like to submit your video to Lee Valley"s HQ training division. This would be a fantastic way to teach our new associates about the difference and help them better advise our customers on choosing a good plane for the customers needs and budget. BTW, I would like to make a point of order. The blade of a high angle plane is a two piece blade and the parts are the Cutting Iron (commonly called the Blade or better the Iron) and the Cap Iron (the part many today mistakenly call the "chip breaker"). The actual chip breaker is merely one FEATURE of a Cap Iron. It is the hump at the leading edge. This not only compresses the wood and breaks the fibers to prevent tear out; it also focuses more reinforcing pressure to the very tip of the Cutting Iron. The result is a significant reduction in chatter on the cutting edge over the original flat design. It this through both improved direction of force and the introduction of spring action similar to springs in a cars suspension. As a "traditional joiner" I would ask that you use the correct terms as they actually have important historical and functional differences. The whole part is the Cap Iron. While the hump, and only the hump, at the front of the Cap Iron is the Chip Breaker. The terms are important because they concisely convey very precise meanings. Thus it is important to use terms properly in order to maintain clarity within a given discipline. Once again thank you for the wonderful videos you make. You have been a major aid to myself both as an instructor in the science and art of joinery and as a customer advisor at Lee Valley's Winnipeg store. Your honesty, humility, passion and humor shine through in your productions, and they have been both inspiring and educational for both myself and my students. Should you ever find yourself North of the border and in the Winnipeg area, please let me know.
Thanks! that means a lot. I would be honored if you would use it. one of these days I want to get north of the border and visit an actual Lee Valley store. in retrospect I wish that was one more point I would have clarified. there is always something I see after it is published and wish I would have worded differently. LOL
I have the Quenshong love angle Jack Plane that looks very similar to yours and it is my go to plane when I have difficult grain, I am loving your Chanel and I am using mainly hand tools now, I have a table saw which I am getting rid of putting it in my other shed.
Love your work, James. I got a bout of buyers regret after I ordered a low angle jack plane. I already own a bevel down jack. Thank you so much for advising me that I really need both! Excellent explanation of the strong suits of each type. Keep up the good work.
Very well explained and completely correct in all aspects. You did a very very good job on this subject and end at the top of the leaderboard. Thank you young man great video.
As everyone is saying, thanks for the useful explanations ! At my basic stage, I didn't know that the two types existed. I don't use power tools and never have, and still have a full set of fingers as a result ! I have and still do use Surform tools which are so quick for shaping. In the 1960s many of us were put off woodworking by the classes at school, which could be an ordeal because of the strict regime which stifled originality. Retirement has meant that we are rediscovering woodworking, and finding that thanks to your channel and others that there is pleasure in learning about techniques - it isn't an ordeal after all ! In a way we pity people who do it as a living, and have to use power tools all day long. If a low-angle bevel up is good for end grain, that suggests a smaller bodied plane for that purpose, whereas planing along the grain will be best for a longer-bodied plane ? Thank you for the introduction - something to bear in mind as we progress !
I use power tools and I still have all of my fingers. If you use your head you should be able to retain all of your body parts. Don't think you can't hurt yourself with hand tools. I find out just how sharp I make edges with fair regularity. Sharp enough that just brushing up against them gets me staining wood when I'm not planning to. In general sharp tools are the safest ones though. They certainly make me the happiest.
@@phildodd9942 sometimes you do have to be agile to avoid incident. It helps to keep your priorities straight especially at the most critical junctures. I value my well being over all else. No piece of wood is worth a cell of my flesh.
Thnaks Phil as always!The longer the plane usually the longer the board you can flatten with it. you can flatten with a short plane but you need something else to let you know it is flat. a long plane will just hit the high spots.
I now think the low angle bevel up wins every time because it takes much less effort to cut through the fibres. I’ve just bought a Zen Wu blade and chip breaker to upgrade my Stanley number 4. It doesn’t fit at all well. However when messing around all possibilities I tried bevel up, no chip breaker either Stanley or Zen Wu, but just the cap iron. I adjusted the blade and tightened up the screw and it cuts a dream with no chatter.The mouth is wide open, however. The proof of the pudding is in the shavings. I seem to have created a high angle and it works a dream despite an open mouth and a sort of chip breaker set too far back to break chips. I reckon the blade approaches the wood at 70 degrees. I could mill out the mouth to take the new blade and chip breaker, but it looks like the protrusion is insufficient with the new blade. I might have to mill a new slot in the blade as well. I’ll stick with my unorthodox bodge for a while as it appears to work fine.
My dad was a power tool guy and had started getting into hand tools as I started getting into woodworking. He suggested that I get a #62 and I’m glad he did. I quickly realized I would also need a #4 but I was able to complete my simple projects with just the 62.
Thanks, I am just learning about planes now. One interesting thing I would like to add is I saw Rob Cosman swap out a blade and chipbreaker on his jack plane. I hope I get the terms right here he had a blade and chipbreaker set up for smoothing and one another pair set up for hogging. This was a high angle 5 1/2 Woodriver plane. Typically I see woodworkers with two different planes perhaps of the same size. Starting out and being a bit miserly I think this is a great idea. Of course this could be done on a low angle plane as well. Thanks again for discussing the pros and cons of each.
I'll swap out the blades for my low angle, but putting a different angle on a high angle plane really doesn't make any difference at all because the bed angle is what sets the cutting angle of the plane.
I'm interested in the shavings themselves. I'm making small things from veneer, and it would be a nice touch to make the veneer from some meaningful piece of wood, even if I have to glue multiple bits together to get what I want. Which tool would I use to get shavings of wood closer to veneer?
Personally as I started integrating more hand tools into my work, I started with the low angle jack because I was a bit intimidated by all of the customization in the standard angle planes. Now I have a 4 1/2 and am kicking myself that I did not just jump into the deep end and start there. It does have a lot more to adjust, but once you have it all down, it takes way better shavings. I do plan to build a shooting board soon, but until then, my old 62 rarely sees much use.
Watched Rob Cosmans take on bevel up vs bevel down after I watched this one and am as confused as ever. I'll go with what you said, "you can't have too many planes". More planes it is! Grilling, gas vs charcoal.
Keep in mind that Rob Cosman is an equally talented salesman as he is a woodworker. He is doing great things with the Purple Heart project and it of course falls into tools sales. He supported Lie Neilson at one point and now WoodRiver planes. That’s unfortunate because there is a great line of tools out there and 🇨🇦 made, namely Veritas. I love the 🇨🇦 IBC line of chisels but not the line of Chinese manufactured planes that are sold widely under various names and generally the same quality.
@Wood By Wright I want it all I want it all I want it now! Currently I'm trying to make my bench surface smoothness this video makes my mind clear thank you for that much informational video
It depends on the individual on what you want to make. If the things you're making are less than 2 ft long I generally say a number four is the best place to start. But if you're going to be making things that are longer than that then you probably want to get a number five. If you're having trouble setting up hand planes then getting a low angle Jack is a great way to go it's a simple plan that most people can Master pretty quickly. Those are the three most used planes and most every shop.
I love your work and your videos. On this topic - you have to try Veritas' bevel-up smoother. Somehow it cuts through the most difficult grain without any tearout with ~40o blade. It's some kind of magic, a very similar Veritas low angle jack can't do that. Maybe it's the extra width and mass and shorter length - somehow it works. Looking forward to your next video!
Great video. Again. I wondered about the difference and why. I have some small planes, I think they are called palm planes that are bevel up. While my larger planes are bevel down. I tend to use the palm plane for end grains, just because it seemed to work better. I never tried to use them for a whole cutting board. Now I understand the logic behind them. :)
The truth is it all comes down to how you feel with the wood. You can do everything with a Stanley No 4. If you can decide that you get a better feeling with block planes then that is a person choice and nobody can argue with you.
I’ve been trying to become more proficient with hand planes. I have always used power tools for everything I have ever built. A chisel here and there. Someone gave me a Stanley no.4 and 5 so I decided to learn how to used them. I’ve watched dozens of videos on how to tune up planes, sharpen irons, set chip breakers.. you get the idea. But I still can’t get a smooth consistent finish on certain woods. It’s so frustrating. I watched this video hoping you would demonstrate how a low angle plane would produce a smoother finish but that’s not the case.
Very educational. I will be sharing in some FB carpenter groups. Maybe in a UK group also as there seems to be many more traditional carpenters and woodworkers than I encounter in USA groups. I'll be searching your channel next for sharpening advice!
Thanks. I have several videos on setting up those planes for all sorts of different purposes. But once you figure out how to set it up before finally figured would The rest of them make sense.
Thank you so much for your clear explanations. I follow several, actually quite a few channels, I find that yours, Paul Sellers, and the "10 minute workshop" are the best no BS teachers. This video is very timely for my education am process. I am just learning about and how to use hand tools. I am taking a hand tool sharpening course from Highland Hardware in Atlanta next month before I purchase a plane and better chisels and other goodies I can slide by the "boss" ! I have seen some sole plates lubed with wax, and others with oils. Which do you prefer and do either of them effect the finish on the wood? Thanks for your answer in advance.
that sounds like a fun time. that is a fun store. I use both. I make a paste wax that is infused with oil. I ahve done the rag in a can and I have done several strait waxes. but this is what works best for me. no. they do not affect the wood at all.
Hopefully your sharpening instruction will put you on the right track. Sharpening is one of those simple topics that people like to complicate. At its core you're trying to get two polished planes to intersect. That's it. Do that and you got an edge. Now the trick is to do it as efficiently as possible. Taking too long or using things that cost too much put you further from the ideal. Right now I'm using synthetic diamonds and ceramics. In this day and age they're fair choices. I use an Eclipse style guide for plane irons and chisel blades too. That gets me a precise bevel with minimal effort. Things only need to be as hard as they need to be. Consistency pays dividends. Hollow grinding a primary bevel is fundamental too. Not doing that puts you back from where you should be. I have a fancy sliding tool rest I made. I basically ripped off the Veratas rest design kind of. A Google search of sliding tool rest brings mine up high in the returns. I don't know if it's just me? Now it is giving me mine first.
a little back bevel on the iron could do the same thing as a different bevel on the low angle device... ( don't have a preference just learning from multiple youtube channels :D )
Well presented, good information and comparison that is useful, said in a straight forward manner that is very much appreciated. Perhaps even more important is your philosophical statement to take the information and apply it to your own way of working and see if this is the tool for you. There is no one tool that is exactly right for everyone. It is up to each of us individually to discover with the tool in our own hands what works best for ourselves. I thank you for that reminder, to me, it is that process of learning and discovery that is at the heart of woodworking and keeps us coming back.
As someone who only does one thing with planes and can’t afford both of these, what would be better for quartersawn rock maple? At first glance I was hoping the low angle would stop my tear out issues with my cheap #4 bevel down plane but you’re saying that the low angle bevel up had issues with tear out and the bevel down didn’t? Maybe I need to spend several hours adjusting it but I’ve never been able to get it to not have severe tear out on knots and such
The higher the angle the better it is for tear out. The high angle plane takes more skill to learn and set up correctly but it can be much easier to get clean cuts on difficult wood. If you look at some of the videos I put out on how to set up a smoothing plane it'll give you a lot more detail on that. But usually it comes down to just being sharper and a lighter cut.
For me it really comes down to which is the better too for the task at hand. Example: you can tap joinery together with a metal hammer though a wooden mallet you'll do a better job in that it's less likely to mare the work piece.
Hi! Nice viedo though the opinions seems to differ very much on this topic your conclusion is full of wisdom. I` d like to ask about one important thing in from the standpoint of ingeneering and re- servicing the low angle jack. Are all the screws and dimensions metric or imperial? Regards!
It depends on which one you get. The one from veritas you get both imperial and metric. The Stanley is all imperial and I don't know about Lee Nielsen but I would assume it's imperial. There are several others that are a little cheaper that are all metric.
@@WoodByWright Thanks for your reply! It` s kind of important to know that fact because any modifications or repair of an imperial dimension plane in europe is quite hopeless... The stanley low angle jack seems nice but the "lever cap" is quite cheap and blades in different steels are unavailable.
It's best to have both. And one nice thing with low angle planes is that their blades are a bit easier to sharpen free hand due to their bigger bevel area.
@@1pcfred Keywords here are "free hand". With bigger bevel area, it's easier to keep the bevel angle just right, i.e. it's more stable due to bigger surface. And with low angle planes, it's quite important to maintain the low bevel angle, the essence of low angle bevel up planes. No secondary bevels or you'll get back to standard ~45deg and lose all the advantages of bevel ups.
@@tuomasjjrasanen I always grind a primary and a secondary bevel. I never sharpen plane irons freehand either. Well, I sharpen my high camber scrub plane freehand. I also don't own any low angle planes. I have a couple bevel up block planes but I sharpen them just like I sharpen any other plane.
@@WoodByWright I freehand sharpened for almost 50 years. Recently I started using a honing guide. It's way better. It's all about consistency and repeatability. That's what a guide gives you. Although the knock off Eclipse guides available today are pretty rough. So they take some filing to true up. Not much, but a little. I'm thinking about picking another one up and modding it to be like the Lie-Nielsen guide. Because I ain't shelling out what he's charging for that.
It would be possible and not too difficult to machine a chip breaker for a bevel up plane. Then you would have the best of both worlds in a bevel up low angle plane. The handle on the Stanley Sweetheart doesn’t look right to me. Is it good and comfortable? My Qiangsheng has a lovely comfortable handle. Very informative video. Thanks
Wow, I've been subscribed pretty much since your humble beginnings.. this is probably your best video to date. The explanation and presentation is spot on. Great work and keep em coming!
You can get them custom-made. And I have a video series showing making one myself with a wooden body. The nice thing is you can actually get a lower cutting angle bevel down then you can bevel up. you can also use a chip breaker so they tend to do a little bit better in figured wood then a bevel up design.
You might want to make the distinction from standard angle planes and really high angle planes like 55 degree planes and scraper planes that have the negative angle. (; Just to keep things spicey.
So I have two questions I'll go with the most relevant (at least to me) first: is there a reason the low angle has a much thicker iron than the high angle? And as far as shooting planes go is making one basically the same as making any other plane just putting the handle on the side instead of the top?
the original 62 did not have a thicker iron, but in this case there is no detriment to a thicker iron as there is with a bevel down plane (the tip is too unsupported) for the most part that is one of the big differences though there are hundreds of different shooting boars panes all with different features.
@@WoodByWright ok was just wondering about that, because that iron looked super thick. And any suggestions as to where I might find a video on building a shooting plane? I've only got a #12-404 and trying to use that on my shooting board is not super easy, has a very strange feel to it.
Usualy I would use a #5 or #6. but I know a lot of people that take an old wooden plane and mount a handle on the side. I do have a series on making a low angle wooden plane that may fit you well.
Great video as always! I've been looking at the veritas custom planes recently. I have a low angle smoothing plane and jack and my fingers are long enough to adjust the norris adjuster more or less on the fly with them, however the bailey style is much easier and more comfortable to adjust - can you adjust on the fly with the veritas custom planes?
@@WoodByWright Sorry, that wasn't very clear. I meant reach the adjustment knob while holding the tote. With the Bailey planes I can increase the cut while I am planing to make "micro adjustments"...I hope that makes sense :p
Hi not sure if you know but I cannot get the video any higher than 360p and the only othe option is premium 1080p. I have just come across your channel and this is the first video I have tried to watch. I am not sure if this was your intention as 360p is pretty low quality?
@@WoodByWright Yes it normally does but for this video when I tried to up the quality the only option above 360p was 1080p premium. Anyway, I still enjoyed the video, thanks.
Well i will never take part in the argument for or against either style again. I use BU planes but don't care for them. I find the norris adjuster to difficult to get the blade set perfectly parallel.
I have both because each has its place where they work better than the other.. Then you missed the card scraper can be considered a hand plane of sorts.
OK, I just watched a video by another guy who said “a low angle jack is the only plane you will ever need”. I thought, “Great! One and done.” Now I watched this and I’m back to analysis paralysis again. A low angle plane should reduce tear out, but it doesn’t. So a low angle plane is only be better for end grain? In my limited experiments with a couple planes I got for free, I don’t get wispy thin shavings. I get thick slices (with some effort) or something resembling saw dust. I’ve spent many hours with diamond stones and a Veritas honing guide trying to get a razor sharp edge and they catch my finger nail, but don’t shave hair. At this point, would it be reasonable to conclude that I need to pry open my wallet and buy a better plane or should I be able to get even a no name, flee market mystery plane to work well?
In the end it is just personal preference they each have their pros and cons. If you are a biginner and want just one plane get the low angle. If you are going to be doing ylot of figured wood then get a bevel down plane.
@@WoodByWright Thank you for replying to me. I got my No. 6 working pretty well I think. I tested it on some 2x2 that I didn't really need to plane for a project that I didn't really need to do. :) It didn't leave a super smooth surface and I'm wondering if I should adjust the frog forward to close the mouth or if I should leave it lined up with the back of mouth like I have it. I was thinking that position would resist blade chatter. But now I'm thinking that wouldn't help because with the bevel down, the blade wouldn't even contact the sole and the back of the mouth.
that is correct the frog back does not help chatter. if you are getting tearout then moving it forward will help, but if it is not fully sharp then that can lead to clogging.
Actually, that is exactly what is done in Asian/Pacific cultures. Their blades are about 2 to 3 times thicker than Western plane Irons. As a result, the Cap Iron with its chip breaker is simply not needed. The disadvantage is that such blades take much longer to sharpen; though they also hold their edge longer.
i use my no62 as my rough plane, it handles all of the roughs task, i can set it up pretty easily to take deep easy cuts even if it leaves some track but it saves the time and money of having a scrub plane and it always shines on the end grain afterwards.
Oh sure, go ahead and try to stop the controversy over which plane is best. Next you'll be making videos about which glue is best........oh, wait...... :-)
Right now Titebond II is the best wood glue. Elmers used to make a glue called Probond that I liked better. It was a bit thicker but still spread nicely. It was the creame de la creame of wood glue. There must have been no profit in making the stuff. It was so rich.
@@bitwise7548 Only in terms of solidity, but not molecular bonding. I took a semester of Psychology in community college so I'm right. You don't know anything about glue. (message to others: this is a joke/sarcasm)
There is the best answer to do anything in woodworking! Not exactly what you might think it would be but sure our ancestors knew it very well as the spent a lot of time doing it. The best answer is the one that makes you more productive or more efficient. Except that sometimes you don't know how to use tools efficiently or what tool. And in hobby world everybody tends to not care about efficiency. And then there is a fact that function of chipbreaker was forgotten and rediscovered again in 2011-2013. But once you master it then you know what it is for. And yes, both are needed for different tasks. Heck, for that matter even machines are needed for best efficiency. But here it is - if you are more productive then you are doing it more right than you did before.
@@WoodByWright if everything else was equal then it would be a harder decision. But because of the increased price due to limited availability I have to consider low angle jack planes luxury items when it comes to woodworking. Certainly nice to have but low on the list of things to get. When one has practically everything else then sure.
It always makes me laugh when people argue about woodworking methods when the masters get the same results using all the same methods. Its mostly the worker using the tool.
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I am a qualified professional carpenter and have been doing carpentry since 1965 at the age of five years old, am i have restored hundreds of plane's over the years and sharpened and turned them up , i am lefthanded but also use my right hand a lot when planning down, and i make you so right, everyone is different and you need to find your own way that works best for you, nice video and best wishes from the UK.
James: An excellent comparison! I'm just starting to mess with this style of tool and your discussion cuts right through the myths and the hype. What refreshing clarity.
Thanks man. Looking forward to seeing your experimentation and what your thoughts are.
Finally a decent demonstration! Most other videos about the difference between traditional bevel down / low angle bevel up just tell you that you can basically turn your bevel up into a bevel down by using a blade with a different angle and call it a day. Which makes you wonder, if it were just that easy, then why aren't all planes bevel up, why bother with all the extra parts and complexity of a traditional plane...
You're a man's man; "Get both. You can never have too many tools." 💯👍
Thank you so much for this real-world, concrete comparison. Seeing the specifics really clarifies my thinking. This is a very valuable video!
Great video! Why do I consider this a very important and very correct coverage of the problem of choice - for a simple reason, many craftsmen, especially those who have extensive experience and a lot of knowledge in the use of hand tools, do not see anything incomprehensible and unclear in the coverage of this issue. 62 planes, they are also called “werewolves” in Russian, “cross-cut planes” are considered by beginning craftsmen to be a remedy for the problems of planing complex wood, a low cutting angle, a massive piece of iron, an adjustable mouth - all this is designed to make the process of planing complex areas simple and high-quality, but mostly quality, because it is believed that the more expensive 62 plane will do the job better.But in the video we see a slightly different picture - the knife with the frog is adjusted more precisely, which means it will be better applicable to each specific case, and in fact it cuts simpler and easier! And due to what? Due to the same cutting angle of 45 degrees! We turned the knife with the chamfer upward, but the surface of the upper cutting edge relative to the planing surface is 37 degrees, less than 45 degrees, which means cutting the end fibers is easier, but only the end fibers. The master showed us an excellent carpenter's bottom for planing the ends, the 62 plane copes with this perfectly, you can also use classic planes, but the 62 with an additional handle is a masterpiece in this work.Great video! Explanation of many questions on various planes comes during the discussion of knowledgeable people and showing examples of work! Thanks a lot!
This is the best explanation I’ve found yet to clearly explain the difference without being loaded full of bias toward one or the other. Usually people just talk purely about how the angles are very similar but never mention how the iron is in line or 45° to the cut.
Biggest example of this is the difference in planes anglo-saxon countries to european central countries. Here almost 99% of people use European style wooden planes. Metal planes are often frowned upon and considered bulky, heavy, complicated to use etc. Then add to that the Japanese style of having so many pull-direction tools that some might consider illogical. It's all a matter of style and personal preference. Great video, with great explanations!
Glad that you emphasize the "what works for you" aspect of our craft. That is most important.Need more info on Wood by Wright 2 site.
thanks. as soon as I am finished with the bed these videos will be moving over to WBW2
I am a serious hobbyist working with as little power tools as possible. I aim to go professional. I am currently planning the purchase of my first set of quality hand planes - I'm Canadian, so it's easy for me to get Veritas products. This video has just helped me figure out what I actually need. Thank you very much for making this material available. Cheers!
One of the best videos I have watched on the differences between low angle and high angle planes. Great job James. Thank you for not saying the bevel up jack plane is the best plane for all tasks.
Thanks. there is no one tool that does it all perfectly.
Great answer. Too many reviews say there is no difference.
Hello, new guy who is somewhat starting to use bench planes and looking into the histories and what not of the tools. In my personal opinion the high angle, bevel down design with early modern to today’s metal bench planes are like a legacy design. It does make sense during the time transitioning from wooden body/sole of a bench plane to a metal (bronze/cast iron,) body/sole. If it ain’t broke why fix it mentality when Stanley first started making metal bodies for the plane designs. Since most and probably all of the planes before Stanley’s Bailey design were made with a very hard and dense wood that can handle abuse pretty well. It was probably very difficult to try and either to mortise (cut out,) or a laminated style during the late Victorian time period to early modern period. There is also the chance with the wood too not being durable enough to handle abuse with how thin trying to make a low angle, bevel up design with just wood. Although I could be wrong about the wooden design.
Amazing video though, keep a good job making amazing content for wood working
Bubble up low angle planes have been around for hundreds of years. And they are plenty durable. Most of the time they were used for shoulder work or for flattening chopping blocks with end grain. But for general use they were not as common. Not because of their durability just because of their function. Blue Angle plains didn't become popular until after most hand tool use died off in the '70s and '80s.
@@WoodByWright Thanks for the info, I am still somewhat new to these types of tools, never hand to use a bench plane until two years ago. I am always interested into looking into what tools I have used and go into the research mode and have my own assumptions on why or how they worked like that and why this type of designs. Thanks for responds from a video that two years old, most UA-camrs usually don’t bother with how old their vids are and what not. Amazing videos so far that I have seen. Have a wonderful day or night
Thanks for the in depth clarification. Very helpful topic
Thanks! What was great for me was the way you explained the angle and chatter bit earlier in the video. I've watched many others but you explanation really clicked - greatt stuff!
thanks! glad I could help.
Just came here after watching Mr Sellers video about a similar topic. I must say that you have explained positives and negatives of both planes. Thanks brother.
Your video is much more descriptive than the RC video - more history, and more scenarios of use are described - thank you
(and, wow, you really like that Lee Valley custom plane!)
(and, yes, get them both, for all of the reasons that you mention - if you do enough different tasks, you may eventually 'need" both)
I have No 5, a low angle Jack, 2 No 4 Stanley, Block plane, plus a rebate plane , plough planes etc etc oh and a Triton thicknesser for stock prep of pallet wood.
I often "brag" that my Subaru Forester is better off-road than a Mazda Miata and corners nicer on twisty mountain highways than a Jeep Wrangler. My Veritas #62 1/2 is kind of a similar deal--it isn't the best at anything, but it's very good at a lot of things. And, like changing tires, changing irons is an easy way to bias the performance in one direction or another.
out of all my planes my veritas bevel up jointer is my favorite, my no. 62 comes in second, then all my bevel down planes...
but I recommend having both. the low angle are great all around planes, they take on most woods with ease, but every now and then....
If you are starting out you can do everything with a Stanley No 4. You can joint with it, make wood true, shape with it and you can size would.
That should be every beginners starting point if you are experienced and have a feel for it and realize that you can hone things with different tools such as a long angle then go for it.
If you are doing easy tearout end grain you may want to get that plane that feels good to you.
I own mostly Bailey style planes with one wooden 17" jointing plane I have set up as a hogger (scrub plane). The only bevel up planes I own are 2 block planes. One for general work and one for shooting and end grain. I agree that there is a definite difference in using a bevel up on end grain and so far, the block planes do what I need. I've held off buying a larger bevel up plane mostly because of the price versus my actual needs. By the way, great explanation of both types, for I believe the 4th time..... LOL!
Great Job James!
With your permission, I would like to submit your video to Lee Valley"s HQ training division. This would be a fantastic way to teach our new associates about the difference and help them better advise our customers on choosing a good plane for the customers needs and budget.
BTW, I would like to make a point of order. The blade of a high angle plane is a two piece blade and the parts are the Cutting Iron (commonly called the Blade or better the Iron) and the Cap Iron (the part many today mistakenly call the "chip breaker"). The actual chip breaker is merely one FEATURE of a Cap Iron. It is the hump at the leading edge. This not only compresses the wood and breaks the fibers to prevent tear out; it also focuses more reinforcing pressure to the very tip of the Cutting Iron. The result is a significant reduction in chatter on the cutting edge over the original flat design. It this through both improved direction of force and the introduction of spring action similar to springs in a cars suspension.
As a "traditional joiner" I would ask that you use the correct terms as they actually have important historical and functional differences. The whole part is the Cap Iron. While the hump, and only the hump, at the front of the Cap Iron is the Chip Breaker. The terms are important because they concisely convey very precise meanings. Thus it is important to use terms properly in order to maintain clarity within a given discipline.
Once again thank you for the wonderful videos you make. You have been a major aid to myself both as an instructor in the science and art of joinery and as a customer advisor at Lee Valley's Winnipeg store. Your honesty, humility, passion and humor shine through in your productions, and they have been both inspiring and educational for both myself and my students. Should you ever find yourself North of the border and in the Winnipeg area, please let me know.
Thanks! that means a lot. I would be honored if you would use it. one of these days I want to get north of the border and visit an actual Lee Valley store. in retrospect I wish that was one more point I would have clarified. there is always something I see after it is published and wish I would have worded differently. LOL
I have the Quenshong love angle Jack Plane that looks very similar to yours and it is my go to plane when I have difficult grain, I am loving your Chanel and I am using mainly hand tools now, I have a table saw which I am getting rid of putting it in my other shed.
Love your work, James. I got a bout of buyers regret after I ordered a low angle jack plane. I already own a bevel down jack. Thank you so much for advising me that I really need both! Excellent explanation of the strong suits of each type. Keep up the good work.
Very well explained and completely correct in all aspects. You did a very very good job on this subject and end at the top of the leaderboard. Thank you young man great video.
good video it'll help in my design and making a shooting board plane I was trying to figure out where the iron needed to be
thanks , your channel make me walk in a correct way
Great video I really appreciate the detailed explanation.
As everyone is saying, thanks for the useful explanations ! At my basic stage, I didn't know that the two types existed. I don't use power tools and never have, and still have a full set of fingers as a result ! I have and still do use Surform tools which are so quick for shaping. In the 1960s many of us were put off woodworking by the classes at school, which could be an ordeal because of the strict regime which stifled originality. Retirement has meant that we are rediscovering woodworking, and finding that thanks to your channel and others that there is pleasure in learning about techniques - it isn't an ordeal after all ! In a way we pity people who do it as a living, and have to use power tools all day long. If a low-angle bevel up is good for end grain, that suggests a smaller bodied plane for that purpose, whereas planing along the grain will be best for a longer-bodied plane ?
Thank you for the introduction - something to bear in mind as we progress !
I use power tools and I still have all of my fingers. If you use your head you should be able to retain all of your body parts. Don't think you can't hurt yourself with hand tools. I find out just how sharp I make edges with fair regularity. Sharp enough that just brushing up against them gets me staining wood when I'm not planning to. In general sharp tools are the safest ones though. They certainly make me the happiest.
@@1pcfred Good to hear it ! You're obviously clever, skilled and agile - all credit to you ! Nice to get your comment !
@@phildodd9942 sometimes you do have to be agile to avoid incident. It helps to keep your priorities straight especially at the most critical junctures. I value my well being over all else. No piece of wood is worth a cell of my flesh.
Thnaks Phil as always!The longer the plane usually the longer the board you can flatten with it. you can flatten with a short plane but you need something else to let you know it is flat. a long plane will just hit the high spots.
thank you . love the answer need more tools
I now think the low angle bevel up wins every time because it takes much less effort to cut through the fibres.
I’ve just bought a Zen Wu blade and chip breaker to upgrade my Stanley number 4. It doesn’t fit at all well. However when messing around all possibilities I tried bevel up, no chip breaker either Stanley or Zen Wu, but just the cap iron. I adjusted the blade and tightened up the screw and it cuts a dream with no chatter.The mouth is wide open, however. The proof of the pudding is in the shavings. I seem to have created a high angle and it works a dream despite an open mouth and a sort of chip breaker set too far back to break chips. I reckon the blade approaches the wood at 70 degrees.
I could mill out the mouth to take the new blade and chip breaker, but it looks like the protrusion is insufficient with the new blade. I might have to mill a new slot in the blade as well. I’ll stick with my unorthodox bodge for a while as it appears to work fine.
Very good explanation. Thanks.
I appreciate your balance
Thanks for sharing that, well said
thanks!
My dad was a power tool guy and had started getting into hand tools as I started getting into woodworking. He suggested that I get a #62 and I’m glad he did. I quickly realized I would also need a #4 but I was able to complete my simple projects with just the 62.
right on. they can be a great first plane!
Very informative. A subject I had little knowledge of before.
glad I could help!
Thanks, I am just learning about planes now. One interesting thing I would like to add is I saw Rob Cosman swap out a blade and chipbreaker on his jack plane. I hope I get the terms right here he had a blade and chipbreaker set up for smoothing and one another pair set up for hogging. This was a high angle 5 1/2 Woodriver plane. Typically I see woodworkers with two different planes perhaps of the same size. Starting out and being a bit miserly I think this is a great idea. Of course this could be done on a low angle plane as well. Thanks again for discussing the pros and cons of each.
I'll swap out the blades for my low angle, but putting a different angle on a high angle plane really doesn't make any difference at all because the bed angle is what sets the cutting angle of the plane.
@@WoodByWright Yes indeed. In Rob’s case he was swapping between a chambferred blade and on that was not.
I'm interested in the shavings themselves. I'm making small things from veneer, and it would be a nice touch to make the veneer from some meaningful piece of wood, even if I have to glue multiple bits together to get what I want.
Which tool would I use to get shavings of wood closer to veneer?
for that you want a low angle plane without the chip breaker.
Personally as I started integrating more hand tools into my work, I started with the low angle jack because I was a bit intimidated by all of the customization in the standard angle planes. Now I have a 4 1/2 and am kicking myself that I did not just jump into the deep end and start there. It does have a lot more to adjust, but once you have it all down, it takes way better shavings. I do plan to build a shooting board soon, but until then, my old 62 rarely sees much use.
Right on. same here!
Watched Rob Cosmans take on bevel up vs bevel down after I watched this one and am as confused as ever. I'll go with what you said, "you can't have too many planes". More planes it is! Grilling, gas vs charcoal.
if thee are any questions I can answer directly feel free to send em an email. I would be glad to help. JamesWright@woodbywright.com
Keep in mind that Rob Cosman is an equally talented salesman as he is a woodworker. He is doing great things with the Purple Heart project and it of course falls into tools sales. He supported Lie Neilson at one point and now WoodRiver planes. That’s unfortunate because there is a great line of tools out there and 🇨🇦 made, namely Veritas. I love the 🇨🇦 IBC line of chisels but not the line of Chinese manufactured planes that are sold widely under various names and generally the same quality.
@Wood By Wright I want it all I want it all I want it now!
Currently I'm trying to make my bench surface smoothness this video makes my mind clear thank you for that much informational video
Great show as always
thnaks Tim. and congrats on first!
Thanks! Which three planes would you recommend for a new woodworker?
It depends on the individual on what you want to make. If the things you're making are less than 2 ft long I generally say a number four is the best place to start. But if you're going to be making things that are longer than that then you probably want to get a number five. If you're having trouble setting up hand planes then getting a low angle Jack is a great way to go it's a simple plan that most people can Master pretty quickly. Those are the three most used planes and most every shop.
I love your work and your videos. On this topic - you have to try Veritas' bevel-up smoother. Somehow it cuts through the most difficult grain without any tearout with ~40o blade. It's some kind of magic, a very similar Veritas low angle jack can't do that. Maybe it's the extra width and mass and shorter length - somehow it works. Looking forward to your next video!
I have played with those. they are a lot of fun!
Great video. Again. I wondered about the difference and why. I have some small planes, I think they are called palm planes that are bevel up. While my larger planes are bevel down. I tend to use the palm plane for end grains, just because it seemed to work better. I never tried to use them for a whole cutting board. Now I understand the logic behind them. :)
The truth is it all comes down to how you feel with the wood. You can do everything with a Stanley No 4.
If you can decide that you get a better feeling with block planes then that is a person choice and nobody can argue with you.
I’ve been trying to become more proficient with hand planes. I have always used power tools for everything I have ever built. A chisel here and there. Someone gave me a Stanley no.4 and 5 so I decided to learn how to used them. I’ve watched dozens of videos on how to tune up planes, sharpen irons, set chip breakers.. you get the idea. But I still can’t get a smooth consistent finish on certain woods. It’s so frustrating. I watched this video hoping you would demonstrate how a low angle plane would produce a smoother finish but that’s not the case.
Very educational. I will be sharing in some FB carpenter groups. Maybe in a UK group also as there seems to be many more traditional carpenters and woodworkers than I encounter in USA groups. I'll be searching your channel next for sharpening advice!
Thanks. If you ever have any questions please let me know.
Very interesting and informative. I would like to see more details on setting up the high angle bevel down plane for different uses
Thanks. I have several videos on setting up those planes for all sorts of different purposes. But once you figure out how to set it up before finally figured would The rest of them make sense.
Brilliant video Keep em coming. It’s great seeing the smaller details in different tools
Thank you so much for your clear explanations. I follow several, actually quite a few channels, I find that yours, Paul Sellers, and the "10 minute workshop" are the best no BS teachers.
This video is very timely for my education am process. I am just learning about and how to use hand tools. I am taking a hand tool sharpening course from Highland Hardware in Atlanta next month before I purchase a plane and better chisels and other goodies I can slide by the "boss" !
I have seen some sole plates lubed with wax, and others with oils. Which do you prefer and do either of them effect the finish on the wood?
Thanks for your answer in advance.
that sounds like a fun time. that is a fun store.
I use both. I make a paste wax that is infused with oil. I ahve done the rag in a can and I have done several strait waxes. but this is what works best for me. no. they do not affect the wood at all.
Hopefully your sharpening instruction will put you on the right track. Sharpening is one of those simple topics that people like to complicate. At its core you're trying to get two polished planes to intersect. That's it. Do that and you got an edge. Now the trick is to do it as efficiently as possible. Taking too long or using things that cost too much put you further from the ideal. Right now I'm using synthetic diamonds and ceramics. In this day and age they're fair choices. I use an Eclipse style guide for plane irons and chisel blades too. That gets me a precise bevel with minimal effort. Things only need to be as hard as they need to be. Consistency pays dividends. Hollow grinding a primary bevel is fundamental too. Not doing that puts you back from where you should be. I have a fancy sliding tool rest I made. I basically ripped off the Veratas rest design kind of. A Google search of sliding tool rest brings mine up high in the returns. I don't know if it's just me? Now it is giving me mine first.
Another great straight forward video, well done.
a little back bevel on the iron could do the same thing as a different bevel on the low angle device...
( don't have a preference just learning from multiple youtube channels :D )
That is true. But then you have to back off the chip breaker
Well presented, good information and comparison that is useful, said in a straight forward manner that is very much appreciated.
Perhaps even more important is your philosophical statement to take the information and apply it to your own way of working and see if this is the tool for you. There is no one tool that is exactly right for everyone. It is up to each of us individually to discover with the tool in our own hands what works best for ourselves.
I thank you for that reminder, to me, it is that process of learning and discovery that is at the heart of woodworking and keeps us coming back.
Thanks Karl. I'll keep the videos coming.
As someone who only does one thing with planes and can’t afford both of these, what would be better for quartersawn rock maple? At first glance I was hoping the low angle would stop my tear out issues with my cheap #4 bevel down plane but you’re saying that the low angle bevel up had issues with tear out and the bevel down didn’t? Maybe I need to spend several hours adjusting it but I’ve never been able to get it to not have severe tear out on knots and such
The higher the angle the better it is for tear out. The high angle plane takes more skill to learn and set up correctly but it can be much easier to get clean cuts on difficult wood. If you look at some of the videos I put out on how to set up a smoothing plane it'll give you a lot more detail on that. But usually it comes down to just being sharper and a lighter cut.
Good job, James. You certainly did your homework for this, which is why I enjoy your videos. You are a smart worker.
Thanks so much!!
For me it really comes down to which is the better too for the task at hand. Example: you can tap joinery together with a metal hammer though a wooden mallet you'll do a better job in that it's less likely to mare the work piece.
right on!
Hi! Nice viedo though the opinions seems to differ very much on this topic your conclusion is full of wisdom. I` d like to ask about one important thing in from the standpoint of ingeneering and re- servicing the low angle jack. Are all the screws and dimensions metric or imperial? Regards!
It depends on which one you get. The one from veritas you get both imperial and metric. The Stanley is all imperial and I don't know about Lee Nielsen but I would assume it's imperial. There are several others that are a little cheaper that are all metric.
@@WoodByWright Thanks for your reply! It` s kind of important to know that fact because any modifications or repair of an imperial dimension plane in europe is quite hopeless... The stanley low angle jack seems nice but the "lever cap" is quite cheap and blades in different steels are unavailable.
It's best to have both. And one nice thing with low angle planes is that their blades are a bit easier to sharpen free hand due to their bigger bevel area.
How is grinding more metal any easier? You make no sense!
@@1pcfred Keywords here are "free hand". With bigger bevel area, it's easier to keep the bevel angle just right, i.e. it's more stable due to bigger surface. And with low angle planes, it's quite important to maintain the low bevel angle, the essence of low angle bevel up planes. No secondary bevels or you'll get back to standard ~45deg and lose all the advantages of bevel ups.
@@tuomasjjrasanen I always grind a primary and a secondary bevel. I never sharpen plane irons freehand either. Well, I sharpen my high camber scrub plane freehand. I also don't own any low angle planes. I have a couple bevel up block planes but I sharpen them just like I sharpen any other plane.
Right on. that is another benefit to the beginner. it is easier to train the freehand what that angle feels like.
@@WoodByWright I freehand sharpened for almost 50 years. Recently I started using a honing guide. It's way better. It's all about consistency and repeatability. That's what a guide gives you. Although the knock off Eclipse guides available today are pretty rough. So they take some filing to true up. Not much, but a little. I'm thinking about picking another one up and modding it to be like the Lie-Nielsen guide. Because I ain't shelling out what he's charging for that.
great video. im starting to learn stuff
thanks man!
It would be possible and not too difficult to machine a chip breaker for a bevel up plane. Then you would have the best of both worlds in a bevel up low angle plane.
The handle on the Stanley Sweetheart doesn’t look right to me. Is it good and comfortable? My Qiangsheng has a lovely comfortable handle.
Very informative video. Thanks
Do you have a video on tuning your handplane
Yes. I have several of them. I have ones for tuning up a jointer tuning up a smoother tuning up a scrub plane and even on wooden planes.
Wow, I've been subscribed pretty much since your humble beginnings.. this is probably your best video to date. The explanation and presentation is spot on. Great work and keep em coming!
Thanks Jason that means a lot.
How come your chip breaker us flat and not a weird curved shape like a Stanley one?
A lot of the modern chip breakers are just ground out on the back. They're also a bit thicker. But there are several other designs as well.
Great explanation, thanx!
A suped up high angle vs a stock low angle... it would have been nice to see how well the low angle did on the face with a high angle blade
it does better then the low angel blade, but not as well as a chipbreaker.
That's impressive, I like that veritas plane
it is one of my favorites!
Where does a cabinet scraper fit in to this discussion?
That is fantastic for figured woods. Or anytime you have reversing grain. How often use that for the final scrape.
Do they make low angle, bevel down planes? If so, what are they used best for? Thanks and great video!
You can get them custom-made. And I have a video series showing making one myself with a wooden body. The nice thing is you can actually get a lower cutting angle bevel down then you can bevel up. you can also use a chip breaker so they tend to do a little bit better in figured wood then a bevel up design.
Thanks for the info!
You might want to make the distinction from standard angle planes and really high angle planes like 55 degree planes and scraper planes that have the negative angle. (; Just to keep things spicey.
LOL I don't want to blow peoples minds that much!
@@WoodByWright Too late my head exploded.
Could you post a link to low angle stanley that was used by you please?
here you go. amzn.to/2M0LWEs
So I have two questions I'll go with the most relevant (at least to me) first: is there a reason the low angle has a much thicker iron than the high angle? And as far as shooting planes go is making one basically the same as making any other plane just putting the handle on the side instead of the top?
the original 62 did not have a thicker iron, but in this case there is no detriment to a thicker iron as there is with a bevel down plane (the tip is too unsupported)
for the most part that is one of the big differences though there are hundreds of different shooting boars panes all with different features.
@@WoodByWright ok was just wondering about that, because that iron looked super thick. And any suggestions as to where I might find a video on building a shooting plane? I've only got a #12-404 and trying to use that on my shooting board is not super easy, has a very strange feel to it.
Usualy I would use a #5 or #6. but I know a lot of people that take an old wooden plane and mount a handle on the side. I do have a series on making a low angle wooden plane that may fit you well.
Great video as always! I've been looking at the veritas custom planes recently. I have a low angle smoothing plane and jack and my fingers are long enough to adjust the norris adjuster more or less on the fly with them, however the bailey style is much easier and more comfortable to adjust - can you adjust on the fly with the veritas custom planes?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by adjust on the fly. I find both to be about the same to adjust.
@@WoodByWright Sorry, that wasn't very clear. I meant reach the adjustment knob while holding the tote. With the Bailey planes I can increase the cut while I am planing to make "micro adjustments"...I hope that makes sense :p
Did you just call woodworking a sport?? Does that make me an athlete??
need help justifying to my better half the amount of tools I need. how you guys did it?
Lol it's nice when woodworking becomes a business because then you can just say it's a business expense
@@WoodByWright nope, it's just a hobby but stuff no longer can be kept out of sight :)
Same with guitars, most end up with more than one!
Hi not sure if you know but I cannot get the video any higher than 360p and the only othe option is premium 1080p. I have just come across your channel and this is the first video I have tried to watch. I am not sure if this was your intention as 360p is pretty low quality?
Not sure what's up with that. It is uploaded up to 1080 so it should have all of them available
@@WoodByWright Yes it normally does but for this video when I tried to up the quality the only option above 360p was 1080p premium. Anyway, I still enjoyed the video, thanks.
interesting. i will have to look at it. not sure why.
@@WoodByWrightI'm in uk, maybe it's a youtube regional thing? Who knows. Anyway keep up the good work. 😊😊
New to woodworking, I’ve never worked with hand planes, low is for end grain, standard for with grain?
they both do eather or. low angle is a new development that a lot of power tool woodworkers and hybrid woodworkers like.
@@WoodByWright thanks for response
I don't think it's a "vs" question, the answer is to ave both for specific situations.
I think there's a tribble hiding in your shop 10:20
LOL just wait tell next week. there will be more!
How much fettling did the new Stanley 62 require?
@@WoodByWright Thanks!
Well i will never take part in the argument for or against either style again. I use BU planes but don't care for them. I find the norris adjuster to difficult to get the blade set perfectly parallel.
that is it's drawback, but then again it depends on the adjuster I have used a few Norris Adjusters that were a charm to work with.
I have both because each has its place where they work better than the other.. Then you missed the card scraper can be considered a hand plane of sorts.
right on. they both have their strengths and weeknesses.
Aww...I was going to make the apple/android comparison, but you beat me to it.
LOL right on. same thing!
Lmao, and a new search begins. Maybe I'll just make one like you did for the challenge with Rex.
If anything, this illustrates the joy of tools. Get both and learn how to use either or.
Right on.
Worked late today, but I'm here...cheers..rr Normandy, Fra.
OK, I just watched a video by another guy who said “a low angle jack is the only plane you will ever need”. I thought, “Great! One and done.” Now I watched this and I’m back to analysis paralysis again. A low angle plane should reduce tear out, but it doesn’t. So a low angle plane is only be better for end grain?
In my limited experiments with a couple planes I got for free, I don’t get wispy thin shavings. I get thick slices (with some effort) or something resembling saw dust. I’ve spent many hours with diamond stones and a Veritas honing guide trying to get a razor sharp edge and they catch my finger nail, but don’t shave hair. At this point, would it be reasonable to conclude that I need to pry open my wallet and buy a better plane or should I be able to get even a no name, flee market mystery plane to work well?
In the end it is just personal preference they each have their pros and cons. If you are a biginner and want just one plane get the low angle. If you are going to be doing ylot of figured wood then get a bevel down plane.
As to the other planes it sounds like setup and sharpening will fix your problems. Even high-end new planes will need some work to get up and going.
@@WoodByWright Thank you for replying to me. I got my No. 6 working pretty well I think. I tested it on some 2x2 that I didn't really need to plane for a project that I didn't really need to do. :) It didn't leave a super smooth surface and I'm wondering if I should adjust the frog forward to close the mouth or if I should leave it lined up with the back of mouth like I have it. I was thinking that position would resist blade chatter. But now I'm thinking that wouldn't help because with the bevel down, the blade wouldn't even contact the sole and the back of the mouth.
that is correct the frog back does not help chatter. if you are getting tearout then moving it forward will help, but if it is not fully sharp then that can lead to clogging.
@@WoodByWright Thanks, James.
How about buying one good blade, and building wooden planes with different angles that use the same blade!
Actually, that is exactly what is done in Asian/Pacific cultures. Their blades are about 2 to 3 times thicker than Western plane Irons. As a result, the Cap Iron with its chip breaker is simply not needed. The disadvantage is that such blades take much longer to sharpen; though they also hold their edge longer.
You've covered the topic well. I think some people just like to argue.
I don't know why I always wait around for those terrible jokes at the end, they never get any better. =)
Lol the best kinds.
i use my no62 as my rough plane, it handles all of the roughs task, i can set it up pretty easily to take deep easy cuts even if it leaves some track but it saves the time and money of having a scrub plane and it always shines on the end grain afterwards.
Oh sure, go ahead and try to stop the controversy over which plane is best. Next you'll be making videos about which glue is best........oh, wait...... :-)
LOL how did you know!
Right now Titebond II is the best wood glue. Elmers used to make a glue called Probond that I liked better. It was a bit thicker but still spread nicely. It was the creame de la creame of wood glue. There must have been no profit in making the stuff. It was so rich.
We all know hide glue is the best. lol
@@bitwise7548 Only in terms of solidity, but not molecular bonding. I took a semester of Psychology in community college so I'm right. You don't know anything about glue.
(message to others: this is a joke/sarcasm)
There is the best answer to do anything in woodworking! Not exactly what you might think it would be but sure our ancestors knew it very well as the spent a lot of time doing it. The best answer is the one that makes you more productive or more efficient. Except that sometimes you don't know how to use tools efficiently or what tool. And in hobby world everybody tends to not care about efficiency. And then there is a fact that function of chipbreaker was forgotten and rediscovered again in 2011-2013. But once you master it then you know what it is for. And yes, both are needed for different tasks. Heck, for that matter even machines are needed for best efficiency. But here it is - if you are more productive then you are doing it more right than you did before.
High angle always the best choice 95% of the time from my experience. The other 5% is an even higher angle lol idk just my experience
LOL I think I am in that boat mostly.
@@WoodByWright the best thing about a low angle bed, bevel up plane, is that it's so much easier to sharpen a high cutting angle on the blade 😆
What happens if you put a bevel up on a high angle plane?
It wont cut very well if at all. that would put the cutting angle at around 80-85 degrees.
Bevel down is the best because they're the tools that are most available.
that is a great reason for it.
@@WoodByWright if everything else was equal then it would be a harder decision. But because of the increased price due to limited availability I have to consider low angle jack planes luxury items when it comes to woodworking. Certainly nice to have but low on the list of things to get. When one has practically everything else then sure.
It always makes me laugh when people argue about woodworking methods when the masters get the same results using all the same methods. Its mostly the worker using the tool.
so true!
Bevel up, bevel down. The best is bevel sideways.
Every time.
So basically the low angle plane is a bigger version of the low angle block plane? 😬😶
In some ways yes as the low angle block plane was produced before Stanley started making the 62.