I would've loved a section from the widow's victims point of view. Like just a 10 second clip, of players walking normally and instantly being sent back to spawn.
Widow can also be impactful without hitting shots, simply through the pressure of her existence, which in itself can lead to frustration, but without making her teammates feel helped. Also I somehow didn't discuss how she has been affected by the map design but I think you know roughly how anyways
Tbh, she's the most opressive hero in the game. Like, not even sombra before nerf nor tracer are as opressive as her... and both of those are incredibly scary on the right hands(well, tracer, sombra was just annoying, like a mosquito buzzing in your ear but not particularly deadly)
I've said this before and i'll say it again, Paladins of all games does its sniper heroes a lot better. They are about consistency rather than an all or nothing shot to the head, they feel A LOT more fair to play against while still being a menace on the right hands, they can still provide value to their team sice they can help wear down the tank but they're not oppressive for the enemy squishies.
It doesn’t have to be a better overall game in order to have better aspects. I’ve never played Paladins so I don’t know how accurate mr.g is, but I do know that a game can do some things very well and still be unsuccessful as a whole
Paladins is more MOBA than FPS, different formula. Also, it's got way more heroes. Thanks but no thanks. In the end, it's a comparison of subjective tradeoffs. I like the concept of oppressing squishes, and spreading out Wm's kit is an shit idea.
Gotta love seeing a widow with both supports lapping at her feet so she just dominates the entire match unless your entire teams coordinates to jump her at once (goodluck with that in qp)
no but venture one shotting you at close range after committing all cooldowns and pulling off an elaborate combo is broken, but its fine when widow does it from across the map where you cant even challenge her
Considering the amount of commitment the enemy team is making, shouldn't your team attempt to at least match it in order to defeat them? Also, QP? LMAO
@@void4595 Do you want to know the difference? Venture instantly kills you by spamming buttons and abilities, you can do nothing about it and it took them NO skill OR mechanical ability whatsoever. Widowmaker ACTUALLY has to hit a charged headshot while not being killed. No one with any mechanical ability or aim would think that widow can "Just" do it. If I get nailed by a widow I think "nice shot" When I die to a venture spamming buttons in my face like a toddler I think "wow, they REALLY earned that kill huh"
@@tosemusernamethat's literally what they're saying, you're just agreeing with them but in a weird way. Widow isn't a character that one person can play around/counter on their own. You need a team effort, and that's very uncommon in QP and the metal ranks, which is important because that's roughly half the playerbase. QP may be irrelevant to you, you're just an OW player. It's not irrelevant to Blizzard, because they're the OW devs, not players. QP-only players are taken into consideration with their balancing changes, the hitbox updates proved that. You're weirdly hostile for no reason my man.
Ironically it's also the framework in which such a thing is the least likely to happen, or most likely to be countered, so in a way, it's a great thing that it happened, and should be admired and enjoyed as such.
@@vinitchauhan2928 What are you talking about? Literally all widowmakers can do this. (Sorry man, bad players literally have no concept of skill or mechanical ability or potential. to people like these, every genji ult is necros doing a perfect nanoblade, and every widow is literally aimbotting)
If ANY other character is able to get 3 kills in a second with just their primary fire, they would get nerfed instantly. Idk why blizzard has such a hard-on for widow
The entire character design revolves around that being possible but equally as unlikely to happen, you f idiot. I think we can agree that's very unlikely to change because we know Wm does make Blizzard money, but if we were to go by game balance and design alone, Wm's concept, from a game designer's perspective, is still appealing. And if you disagree, you should know that I'm writing this laughing at yours, the idiots who are just as dumb as you, and the rest of this echo chamber's pathetic discontent with this.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Hanzo is honestly worse. If im dying to a hanzo, 9 times out of 10 it is just because he fired an arrow into a group if people or he was prefiring an angle. Not to mention walls on a 15 second cooldown.
@@martinkarleskind8697agree with you that TF2’s sniper is the most oppressive class, but the machina sucks. The bazaar bargain and stock are far and away the best snipers. I might even go as far as saying the BB is the single best weapon in the entire game.
I feel like they just added her because every shooter has a sniper. I think Sojourn is a much more healthy approach to burst hitscan damage because you can outplay her with a lot of the cast. Widow forces you to go dive and on some maps you need to coordinate with your entire team to kill her(which for most ranks is pretty rare).
LMAO another idiot factoring in team coordination in hero balance/design discussion. The reason why you think Sojourn is a better concept is because she's another flavor of Soldier 76, the quintessential FPS character, with some design differences, but in the end, very familiar, both in playing it and countering it.
Instant Kill mechanics in general work best in PVE games. With PVP it's hard to balance in any way that is fair and fun for both sides. In most games Snipers have to deal with low ammo count, bullet drop or weapon sway. Helmets or other armor stopping an instant kill, and often firing from hundreds of meters away. Oh and scope glint and other tells giving away their position. Mean while Widow has unlimited ammo, OW Maps are generally fairly close ranged affairs. If Widow does die she has good mobility and can be a threat from super far away if the sight lines favor the Widow. She is also basically untouchable to anything but another sniper in the higher ranks. It's pretty telling the only thing stopping Widow from being God Tier is player skill. Especially after various counters to Snipers like shields were nerfed into oblivion.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming The part about mobility is wrong, but the rest is on point. It's why my 2 biggest gripes with this game are the small hero pool and the gigantic character hitboxes. The first is a general issue, being the lack of enough diversity in overall strengths, something which every MOBA or MOBA-like goes through in the beginning. And the stupid hitboxes, in the name of "consistency", also blow perceived issues out of proportion simply because it's easier to hit things from afar.
@@tosemusername I would say Widow has more than fair mobility, not top tier but "Good" is still good. She has both vertical and horizontal options with her grapple, which last I looked was only on an 8 second CD. It also has quit a bit of power to it, allowing her to sling shot over buildings to get a shot even if she can't actually climb on them. Add all that to her range of effectiveness is basically unlimited long as there is line of sight, it makes her hard to deal with. You have to go extremely out of position to chase her down, and if she dies Widow generally has far less ground to cover to come back into the fight with some maps allowing short cuts with her grapple.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming Grapple cd is 13s, which is why I agree with you about the more than fair mobility, for a sniper in Overwatch, and should address most of your concerns. About the unlimited range part, comparatively yeah, I guess?! But on itself, it's not true thanks to the falloff nerf, which I take issue with conceptually, but not in practice, as it serves its purpose currently.
I’m decent at widow, but I don’t play her enough to use in my lobbies, however whenever I do use widow. All it takes is 1 kill, and that alone will put pressure on the entire enemy team, even if you don’t hit a single headshot after.
Show me your rank, then we'll talk. I watch a lot of Kenzo's and Kephrii's streams, and although owning lobbies sometimes, they still lose about half of the games, bar some lucky random win streaks here and there, usually accompanied by losing streaks. And that's even with them switching to others heroes. I'm high plat/low dia, and can't attest that statement, and even with kill streaks, games generally go either way.
@@tosemusername I’m currently gm3 on dps, there’s a difference for what I mean by pressure. If they start off without any heroes that can effectively contest a widow and your team plays somewhat decent, that starter kill will cause a more cautious playstyle and force them to most likely swap. But before that time it allows time to go by, creating higher odds for winning. But after that I do just go back to my main, Widow lasts until I die and hopefully creates that opportunity
Not trying to be rude but I think “show me your rank, then we’ll talk” is kind of a stupid thing to say. Even if kaitofv was bronze his comment would still be valid as they were simply giving their perspective and personal experience. Also the phrase just comes off to me as inherently disrespectful, but others may disagree
@@kaitofvThat is true, however, it's not a given, and up to the widow to make it happen, even on favorable matchups, because if she doesn't, the only thing she'll have accomplished was giving enemy supports ult charge. In the end, it's a tradeoffs, and I personally am satisfied with the current design, unlike OP, reddit, and this comment section.
@@BPViking I disagree. It's probably not very polite, which I don't care, and to top it off, I came from a StarCraft 2 background, where your opinion, at face value, carries as much weight as your rank. Emphasis on the "face value" part, since he hadn't elaborated his point enough to eliminate the chance of rank being a factor.
Widow’s an interesting character, in the right hands she can be absolutely unstoppable. Even with an amateur player, if they can hit their shots, then even those players have an intimidating presence when they play the hero.
Obviously confirmation bias, but I notice the only people being hostile (or initiating hostility) in the comments are widow defenders. I imagine there’s a correlation between the character that is designed to lessen everyone else’s fun and only focus on yours and being an asshole.
@@AnimeOtaku56. You definitely shouldn't play Overwatch and go play something else then. The game has resurrection, aimbot, walls, perma stealth, and to some extent, immortality, so wtf are you still doing playing it?
Ever since they buffed projectile sizes widow sees more play in lower ranks as well. Lets remember that a character like hanzo had those buffs removed despite being inconsistent in landing headshots due to being a projectile character while widow, the hitscan character, hasnt been touched. It boggles the mind why this character gets protected by a lot of players on the count of "skill" when all they do is hold an angle. Sure they have good aim but their skill ends there and it isnt enough of a reason for her to have this kinda lethality.
One shots are never good in a game like OW. Players need a chance to react or do something in a fight. It's no fun when a decent widow gets off 3 headshots in a row at any range, either through skill or just shear luck. Only one person is having fun there, while 2 or 3 players on the other team are not having fun.
Agreed. If one character (that’s not a tank) can change the entire flow of a game just by existing they are an awful design. Everyone has to play differently when there is a widow
I don't know why they haven't added one shot protection yet. It would solve so many balancing issues blizzard has been dealing with. No instance of damage should be greater than 90% of max HP.
@@Takemura77 I love when instead of giving constructive critisism. Niggas say "Get good". like good lord go take a walk and say something helpfull when your done. your either young or just imature
@@grs3ntinel I mean, it is true. If you have aim, great positioning and awareness, you can murder with Widow. If not.. then you gotta get good. Hanzo on the other hand is just total bs. Positioning can suck and you can still be good, your aim can suck and you can still hit some lucky hs and he can easily stay with his team so has actual protection.
I've watched several of your videos in a row now, and never actually looked at your account. To say i was shocked would be an understatement when i saw your sub count. Incouldnt believe the it, especially with the quality of these history/essay style videos you've put out. I was expecting sub count to be well above 100K. You're doing incredible work, keep it up 🔥🔥💪💪
I'm really happy you liked the videos so much. I only recently started making these history videos, and since my older videos had no clear direction I was never able to build up many subs. But now I feel like I've finally found the right style and hope I can continue to entertain you with future videos which I keep trying to improve
One shots have always been one of my main problems in overwatch. Widow just feels downright unfair, and Hanzo did as well. In a game like overwatch, a hero shooter, some one shots feel broken. Reinhard's charge is a fair one shot because of the amount of commitment it needs to secure that kill. Widow just sits across the map and clicks heads and call it fair. One more problem is, her only true counter is another Widow or Hanzo, and let's be real, you're gonna be flexing to Widow while trying to outplay a Widow main most of the time.
Idk if you take requests, but I would like for a Lifeweaver video next. I know he hasn't been our for that long but he has been among the least used hero in higher ranks and would like to hear how you would rework his kit. Other than that love all your videos
I'm very glad you've been enjoying my videos thus far. As you said Lifeweaver is quite a new hero and so I don't expect to be giving him a video soon (although you never know) as I want to give OW2 heroes a little more time to develop first. For the coming few videos expect more ow1 heroes, but at the same time I won't go through every ow1 hero before I start with newer ones. Even then, it'll probably be at least a couple of months, so sorry if this answer wasn't quite was you wanted to hear.
@BPViking, if you are taking requests, can you do a comparison video, doing a video on why most players like X character, while most players hate Y. I think it could be a good piece of content that i don't think other content creators have done
the problem comes down to the instant coming without warning. duh, right? so i propose she has a laser pointer when in sniper mode. She retains lane pressure where she has LoS look, and one shots become less instant and more a skill issue on the recipients side. this will also make it insanely easy to tell if the widowmaker is cheating.
I think the way you make Widow less annoying is by making Widow's Kiss's scope shot do less damage the *closer* Widowmaker is. This way Widow can keep her one-shot sniper archetype while also encouraging casuals to get in her face and actually learn how to take advantage of movement abilities. Widow at mid-range doing mid damage means she'll still be impactful, picking off those lower hp enemies while also helping her team get kills. Maybe as compensation for such a heavy change, you can improve her movement speed while scoped and let her jump so she isn't as vulnerable, and also buff her HP a smidge.
@@tosemusername I used to be a charger main in splatoon where a system thats *kind of similar* exists, except instead of it being a direct nerf to damage while closer, its the fact that chargers take a longer time to reach their one shot than Widow does (except for the Squiffer and Bamboo lmao), so when enemies are closer wasting the time to get full charge might not always be the best for your team. I reworked this idea to be more compatible for Overwatch where any given situation is a lot more dynamic than in Splatoon.
@@HeavyHebi Alright. First off, the built-in presumption that change is needed? Yeah, no, it doesn't, and I'll touch on why at the end. Second, the concept is dumb af in my opinion because it breaks Newtonian Physics. Conceptually, it's not dumb, it just doesn't fit within Overwatch, CS, and basically every major FPS game in recent history, which promptly discards the idea. Third, there is already encouragement to close the distance to snipers in the game in the form of both the need to address them, stemming from the one-shot potential, and exponentially decreasing the advantage Wm has over the enemy team by doing so. So you can choose between diffing the Widow by sniping her, or being unable to do so, default back to closing the distance, which is a valid counter-play mechanic, which leads me to my problem with the premise of the issue, that the current design is fundamentally flawed, but it isn't, and it's working as intended. Deep down, that's a conjecture about a subjective topic, so you can't prove it's flawed, and I can't disprove it, so I can only say this: If the one shot mechanic is significantly nerfed or removed, I'll stop playing the game. I fundamentally believe the current design around Wm to be sound (except the imposed fall-off nerf, which should be addressed by map design, and the plague of gigantic character hitboxes in this game), and I invite people here to try to get good with her, and play against equally good opponents. If after that you still feel the same way about it, complain to Blizzard, let them choose which side's more profitable, and we'll have our answer.
@@tosemusername 1. I never presumed that change was needed, I simply gave an example of how I would make Widow less annoying. You don't NEED to change Widow, she already makes sense, this is about making other players feel like they have more of a chance. 2. I don't necessarily think tradition/convention is a valid argument for why something shouldn't be changed. 3. Overwatch already defies reality, Widowmaker is purple and has no emotions because her heart rate got slowed down by a woman who can make a magic yellow circle that works as a cure-all. 4. I'm already aware that diving the Widow is how you beat her, but being close to Widow doesn't eliminate the one shot potential, which is the issue people have with Widow. You can get close to Widow and still get one-shot, which is also annoying for people who dislike Widow because you get punished for playing properly. 5. Something can be doing PRECISELY what its designed for and still be flawed. For example, I think Mauga has a flawed design, and he's doing PRECISELY what he was advertised and designed to do. For a less realistic example, I could give Zen a one-shot body kill with discord orb to improve his kill potential, and that would be STUPID, but accomplish what I set out to do. 6. You're right, whether or not something is flawed is subjective, where some people see bugs, others see features. However, what I disagree with is just taking whatever Blizzard says as the "correct" answer, because I do not believe that Blizzard is a perfect dev team who has a perfect understanding of the game and what their players want. 7. If you don't wanna play Overwatch because your favorite character got nerfed and now you have to play a tiny bit differently, that is a skill issue my guy. 8. I don't like playing as Widowmaker, I've tried it out for a while, I did pretty well, it's just not really my thing.
first off: this video is of really high quality i can't believe it's from a channel this size. anyways, i don't think that one shots should be in the game at all (with a few exceptions like rein's pin) and widow's is easily the worst one shot that's here right now. my solution would be to give her a cooldown that buffs her next scoped shot/shots that allows her to one shot and has a visual indicator for both teams. one shotting is part of her identity and it would be unfair to take that away from her, but in it's current state it's pretty much just a nightmare to deal with, especially if you're playing support and can't reliably deal with her by yourself.
Great to hear that you liked the video. I think you’ve made some good conclusions and have the start of a potential solution. This kind of thing is very difficult to traverse due to all the things you have to consider. For example, how would you redistribute the power, how would this affect her playstyle, would this make big enough of a difference to play against etc etc. It’s just a balancing act between positives and negatives at the end of the day where a plethora of different factors need to be considered. Your suggestion could be a potential direction, although one I doubt they’d take considering how little they’ve done thus far.
To everyone who thinks and agrees with this, I'm a high Plat Low Dia Wm main that enjoys and feeds on you all having a bad experience playing this game because of this particular aspect, and in some games, I'm reminded that you people exist, and everytime I dunk on you, I feel an immense satisfaction in knowing that you're getting shafted. And next time this issue comes up on /r/overwatch, feel free to remember this when you're crying about it. With that said, if the concept of the hero is to change so as to remove the one shot from the game, which is what you mob of tards want, and is a possibility given that Blizzard has absolutely no vision for this game, design-wise, and heroes can hardly be said to have real identities (they randomly made soldier gay, changed McCree's name, retconned Diva's StarCraft background and rework heroes left and right), I'd just quit playing. To me, it would look like they went back on their particular sniper concept for Overwatch since the beginning of the game, which had contributed to make the entire formula a success. It would also mean they chose to sacrifice Wm instead of fixing the hitbox problem. That they by then decided to cater to you tards isn't as big a problem as the 2 I mentioned. I'm biased, but if you're arguing for significant cooldown on scoped shots and visible scoping indicators as a nerf to a sniper, let alone Wm, you're not only biased, you're a clueless biased idiot. Plus OP calling for the dismantling of the very concept that makes Wm unique in Overwatch and across snipers in general is just peak Facepalm moment.
Widowmaker is the biggest problem of Overwatch and the dev team knows it too (they once talked about they would be very careful if they ever released a character that is as powerful as widow) . Sadly it's a little too late, her whole personality and 70% of voice lines is about "one shot, one kill". I'll come back to the game if they somehow fix her at some point
I wonder if she'll be reworked within the next two seasons because after sombra's public execution she's been in all my games 😅 Like Tracer can't get her if she moves from high ground to high ground and genji is just a wait out deflect then shoot character so Sombra was her only true counter and she's f tier
Breh I main genji and It’s not like that at all u just flank her and 1 shot her. Or if she’s looking at u deflect to get closer and then 1 shot and save dash for when she grapples away then chase her and free kill.
@@محمدمحمد-ش4د6ك Mate, genji have one of, if not the best mobility of any dps hero right now. How do you expect most of the slow ass dps to get to her in a timely manner?
@@Fairy-Uvinq the point isn’t killing her all the time ur still using making her use her grapple cooldown and making the support invest her heals into the widow which is gonna slow her down and allow ur team to push.
I gotta say This is a great video but it seemed to forget the single biggest thing that influenced widow. the playerbase got better and better an oppressive widow became more and more common. the fact of the matter is her design has and always be. bad as long as her performance depends entirely on how consistently the player in question can click head
That is true. Of course all heroes are affected by increase in player skill over time but I forgot to consider that widow is perhaps affected more by this than some others
i think she would be significantly better as just a regular bolt action sniper character but it didn’t one shot headshot. she would have a lot more utility based abilities. ashe and sojourn are just better healthier versions of widow. i really don’t know how they could rework her without completely ruining the character or just being a better/worse version of the other 2 heros i just mentioned
i dont mind one shots, i mind the time in between shots. having a slightly longer recharge rate or not being able to shoot until fully charged would justify a one shot
Most definitely an unpopular opinion, but I think widow is some what balanced only due to the amount of mobility that every character has as well as the difference in hotboxes and health. Maps can also play a big role. On one hand, certain maps, it can be extremely hard to get value on with widow. And on the other, there are maps that are obviously in widows favor. Not to mention team comps. In most cases, if a tank goes dive and marks a widow it can be hard to even exist as a widow.
She's not that hard to balance for everybody. Increase the damage on her SMG, increase the damage on her spider-mine, and make it so she can't one-shot headshot. (even with a mercy pocket) She can only have one shot in her ult, but in her ult bring back her old damage that could one shot in the body most squishes because it's supposed to be a DPS ult. With these changes, she keeps her lore accuracy and isn't super oppressive or useless most of the time since she will play like a budget Soldier until she gets her ult. Then when she does have her ult she can still get eliminations even if she's in the hands of a bronze newbie.
I 100% reject the comments with the “every fps has it so…” Annnd? Overwatch isn’t like every other fps. This game does not need something so fucking toxic. Especially current overwatch. Yeah let’s never set a new modern normal. Good thing people of the past didn’t think like that or we wouldn’t have cars, planes etc. same people who think we can’t completely reinvent this archaic ranked system that was based on 1v1 players. But now is used to punish you individually for team based gameplay. Where 9 other people can ruin you with their own free will and you get punished. Such great thinking. Humans can go from not even having a wheel or fire to having literal space ships but you’re right we could never create a way better system for ranked games. Implausible
My history with widow has been as rocky as her balancing history. I started absolutely hating her as I was a passive support main. Then as a slowly became better at the game and started playing dps myself she became less significant. If the other team had her I didn’t instantly freak out like before. And then one day… I locked her in a quick play…. And I realized… I’m actually pretty good at her for my rank and I have done nothing but click heads ever since lol I like her better now to be honest. I hate playing broken characters and I love when it takes work to express skill with them. When I win a game with her I feel like I actually accomplished something not like when I win with Pharrah or something like that (which sorry to her mains but imo is so easy to get value out of just by shooting the floor). I don’t really feel good when I win with her. I love widow. Thanks for the vid.
How dare you, say flying women doesn’t express skill. Lining up rockets. Deciding when to stay on the ground and when to fly. Finding ways to flank the enemy team.
Those colours were used specifically for spectating the Overwatch League, although you can probably change your own to something similar through the colourblind settings
with how much they buffed supports and tanks in the course of overwatch life span. as dps player I say, widow is not annoying because one shot is overpowered, widow is annoying because how strong high ground is in overwatch 2 and how little impact you can have against her. in overwatch1 widow was strong but at least you could control her with off tanks like dva or ball and because you had 2 tanks, other dps players could take long flanks or position against her with tank cover. now in overwatch 2, if you take long flank you are basically throwing and your tank simply don't have enough time or recourses to cover for you dealing with widow. so killing a hero far behind enemy line on a pretty far and safe high ground trough huge amount of healing and cover that supports can dish out is annoying. if by some miracle dev team some day reduce the amount of sustain and defensive abilities in the game by big margin, widow will become way less annoying.
They could start by nerfing the egregious hero hitboxes, consequently nerfing long and medium range gameplay. Only after this point we could start discussing the next step.
I don't have problem with widow when I duel her alone the problem is dueling her in team.. have to fight bap/lamp mercy/res illari,brig, Lucio babysitter or tank... I can duel her with tracer or genji the problem is the amount of hoops you have to jump until you kill her.. the effort to protect her is too easy compared to get rid of her mostly due to support removing her weakness
I only played overwatch 1 so my memory might be a bit blurry, but as I remember no one was extremely annoyed over Widowmaker when she played good on either team. However no one liked a bad widow as your teammate. Mostly because they never switched to a better suited hero.
People hate widow as there is only one tank to protect the team so widow can get way more opportunities to one shot people. And a lot of the tanks don’t have shields to protect the team easily
@@Joel-bi9npThere didn't have to be a shield tank in 6v6, but the odds of not having at least one were fairly slim, and it made Widow a lot less oppressive. Now they design around her with adding shorter sightlines and more cover to the new maps. The older ones haven't changed much and thus she's more dominant there.
The game would benefit immensely if Damage fall off was increased even more How miserable it feels to fight against a hero that can keep its distance all the time like Pharah, Echo or Widow
The problem with Widow is magazine size. It's difficult for most characters to kill more than 2 or more characters at full health with one magazine. It's not uncommon to see a cracked Widow kill 3 or even 4 characters at the start of a team fight without reloading.
That used to be true, before the charged-shots-now-cost-5-ammo nerf. We used to be able to somewhat rely on the rifle mode for close range, but nowadays, if you're not Kenzo and you're not consistently pulling insane flicks, if you close the distance to Wm, she's dead, and this is true even in GM lobbies. And do you see Wm playesbcomplaining about it? Me neither.
You have to remember that one shots are really only kinda an issue at Diamond and an issue for masters+ it doesn’t affect 60% of the player base at all nearly.
But let me guess you think genji should be viable; when whenever he’s meta he’s essentially one shoting someone before they could react but unlike widow you can’t LOS Genji because he gets dash resets and has significantly better mobility.
I suppose we should get rid of Soldier, Cassidy, Ashe especially too, how about Baptiste, also Bastion (The definition of point and click adventure). Don't be absurd.
@totalwhitetrash Ngl man. I think using cover all game just so you don't get insta killed. is Pretty lame. and well i don't play Overwatch to play in a lame way.
widowmaker is even fucking worse than the tf2 counterpart, the sniper. here, you can go anywhere, have a trap to alert you of flankers, a better gun, and wallhacks. sniper has a few guns.
True. In Overwatch it’s a lot easier to deal with since you can pick certain heroes who specialise in diving widow. At the same time, considering Overwatch’s general gameplay style, the presence of a one shot sniper can feel worse than in eg a tactical shooter where you get used to getting one shot by ARs all the time. So it goes both ways
Not in the way widow has it. Look at spy from tf2, he's an instakill, but nobody complains about him. Why? Because he has to earn his Insta kill by tricking the enemy team, and sneaking around them with his cloak. He needs to be right behind them for the Insta kill.
widow is just inherently unhealthy for the game. characters like hanzo, junk, were fine old doom. you put yourself at risk and in danger in order to one shot headshot but widow can just sit in narnia and click on heads. the other characters can actually coordinate and don’t SOULY rely on one shot mechanics. old doom was a dive hero so he worked well with other dive hero’s. hanzo was a solid poke character pressuring shields and the infamous grav dragon. junk is great at spamming down chokes. widow just sits in the back and clicks on heads. unhealthy garbage hero design the only silver lining is it’s really fun to go for widow players as lucio
LMAO, I feed on you bad experience. Give me some more of those tears, go on. I completely disagree with you, I think your point of view is diametrically opposite to what's right, but it doesn't matter what either of us thinks, you're not getting your way today, we'll keep plowing you, and I'm really having a good laugh writing this.
@@tosemusernamegirl get out of the comment section, you look foolish. Keep coping with the fact that no one likes your shitty hero design. Instead of looking stupid on youtube, go play in traffic or smth idk
@@tosemusername Narcissistic ass comment that reeks of a superiority complex over playing an oprresive hero that fundamentally is toxic for a game like Overwatch
Here some perfect idea how to make her more balanced: 1) if she can one shot you in the head, all dps should do that to her 2) low ammo on the mag 3) less speed mobility 4) make her with 150 health 5) or make her one shot into a 2 shots, so she can't one shot anymore but keeps her health, ammo, speed. You need a very good aim to one shot but to counter play her is really difficult, if a widow maker doesn't miss you entire team is basically gone💀
1. half baked, she already is pretty low hp and if she doesnt react to focus fire she can die pretty fast. I would say it'd be good to remove some fall off so this is easier 2. Already sorta low but why not 3. She already has very little mobility, she only gets grappling hook what, like every twelve seconds??? 4. She already has lowish health compared to every other character but sure, 150 it is. 5. Dead character, Literally just play ashe. You ALREADY need pretty good aim to play widow, yeah duh, if a widow doesnt miss your teams gonna get eaten alive. IF. and its probably the biggest if in the game. If cas hits every shot, if soldier hits every shot, you're cooked. Honestly I'd be more afraid of an aimbot cassidy than an aimbot widow.
I have no issues with oneshots in Overwatch because usually if you get killed by one it was because you either weren't fast enough, weren't standing in a safe area, or were caught off guard by a character that outplayed and outmaneuvered you. Basically the one shot characters that I see take actual skill to use and if you get one shot it is your fault. That's why I have not problem with being one shot and having one shots in the game.
A lot of Overwatch got kinda fucked when it switched to 5v5... not sure what the devs were thinking. Sure, DPS queue times went down... and tank enjoyment went out the window. Fuck the DPS, man. Make tank fun again. Most DPS just got better, as did supps.
She can literally te wipe in 10 seconds, TEN SECONDS, idc if you feel she feel she takes skill no hero woth skill shluld br able to do that 😭 so yes, TAKE HER ONE SHOT AWAY
it was OK in OW1 because not that many people had the skills to carry like in these clips you show. but in ow2 its like 20% of the players aimbotin. So you get at least 1 in every other match. Its just not fun. and with the recent sombra changes going to make it worse.
Sniping isnt the issue high caliber rifles are meant to do dmg, the problem with widow is 5v5 everyone out in the open and her snappy sights, rifles arent supposed to move like that, in 6v6 eith proper shielding and teamwork where everyone is aware of their positioning the most important thibg in a team shooter even more important than aim she cant do much she is created to punish aggressive players and heroes. But they want everyone to make a play so you get this problem overwatch used to be a gamers of all sorts could find a role for their skills and help the team in this cod free for all ofc one shot is op. The favr the devs didnt thibj of that and or pushed towards it shows how incompetent they are and how ow doesnt deserve another shot.. Ppl may forget but ow has been in a broken mess or meta sinds like 2017 its time to let go they wont make it better 6v6 was better format for the game type and most hero designs and they couldnt there either so yh
am going to piss off the entire GAMING SENE but i don’t care ehm snipers ANY KIND don’t I repeat DO NOT BELONG IN FPS GAMES they slow the game to a crawl ruin ANY slow tactic and finally have literally infinite skill sealing sooo WHY DO DEVELOPERS STILL PUT THEM IN GAMES FOR CRIST SAKE MULTIPLAYER DO NOT NEED SNIPERS STOPPPPPP
@@w1nther930 ok i meant sniper rifles you know one to 2 hit ko from any range? (that’s why am ok whit them in splatoon they have no movement options or poor range ok)
Unlike most FPS games, sniper archetype are far easier to deal with in OW due to wide variety of characters with unique play style along with variety of maps. In fact in 2018, i learn to play ice witch ahem Mei, so i can force widow to swap. Oh the memories.
People complaining about one shot just don’t know how to play against a widow 🤦♂️🤦♂️I bet the same people complaining are the ones peaking widows when they have 100% charged shot
You take away her one shot ability, someone other hitscan is just gonna get it(prob sojourn again or a new hero) and she becomes a weaker Ashe. She’s probably never gonna get changed considering her character is a literal sniper and I’m fine with that tbh, she’s just a necessary evil that I truly don’t really mind
i would stop playing ow if they removed her insta-kill headshot ability tbh, but i know i'm in the minority here and understand why people hate it (especially people who never play her, like a lot of support mains)
just make her easier to see, and her grapple harder to use For example a sniper laser, and her grapple shorter range and longer cooldown imo thats the best way to fix her, make her fight for her positioning, to not be able to escape or reposition as easy as she can
To answer your question, Widow having her one shot ability requires timing, coordination, and learning visual cues, but up close is when she not so threatening. The issue comes when certain heroes can just spam abilities around no matter the distance to achieve the same results and with very little effort.
As someone who hates other hitscan more than Widow (*cough* Ashe *cough*), I do think people forget the reason why Widow has such a strong weapon is cuz her entire kit relies on her gun to do damage. She has the weakest ability in OW2 (Widows mine is literally useless) and her mobility tool only enables her movement. I think Widow one shotting is fine, its just that her charge rate needs nerfed. I also think it should only apply a 3x modifier on max charge. Tbh, hitscans in general (except Sojourn and 76) have too fast of fire rates.
I’ve mentioned this multiple times reworked/nerfed widow already exists it’s called Ashe 🤦🏾♂️ the only way widow could be nerfed if all damage and healing is nerfed so the damage widow does is worth picking her over other DPS and still be impactful due to reduced healing and damage of other roles Nerfing her max damage to 200 which is a 33% decrease that decrease should apply to all roles damage and healing meaning there will be no one shots
One shot must stay. That's the whole point of a heavy sniper. Many other heroes should have their one shot abilities back and OW must get back to its 6v6 roots. We're coming to the point where OW is being dumbed down and hero identities are stripped away just to force players into the center of a teamfight. Sombra's previous rework is a good example. She was turned from a niche hero with very different and interesting play style into Tracer 2.0, way easier and more effective, played by everyone and hated by everyone. Now they reworked her again into a worse version of Soldier 76. Widow must remain untouched. Players are going to complain no matter what and they'll just switch to bitching about the next hero.
I don’t agree that all the old one shots should come back (at least not in 5v5, 6v6 I don’t know) but I do agree that widow should keep her one shot, mostly because the entire hero would lose her identity and be useless without it
Widow is a necessary evil in a fps. It forces the player to learn to play around sightlines. The best counter to widow is literally have your tank peek her, ping her and play around that. The entire purpose of widow is to shut down fights before they start, seeing as she can’t take a close ranged fight. If you only want to brawl then ow2 is perfect for you and I understand why you hate widow
If the best counter to something is something completly out of your controll that means it's bad also what about ashe or hanzo? They teach the same thing without being as annoying or consistant
@@engineergaming3830First of all: How is proper positioning and team work out of your control? You just proved my point that the game is not only getting dumbed down but that it's going into the brawl individual hubris space. Both Hanzo and Ashe have had a long history of being hated characters. Want to know why? Because people who can't aim nor have the basic concept of playing around cover whine that they are OP while they jump around out in the open like freaking target practice dummies. Ask any decently ranked OW1 player and they will tell you why you shouldn't jump when facing a widow
@@thebearded4427 this game just isn't the same anymore also what Ur team does is out of Ur control if they don't respect her you lose which doesn't happen with any other hero and yeah sure they hated hanzo and ashe but they fixed their issues like scatter Arrow and 1shot with dmg boost Widow is basically the only hero they are scared of fixing and why did u suddently talk about jumping? Isn't that common knowledge at this point
The guy who’s stupidity brought you “sombra but she’s even worse than base Lifeweaver” explains why it’s bad game design for players to have to respect sight lines.
No, not really, but one shoting mobile squishies is much better than what she can do right now, *cough cough* 4 body shots on 250 targets with almost 0 mobility
@@klinxium8627 I don't know if in an FPS you don't like people who are at a distance with a weapon designed to be tactical it's not my fault, skill issue
16 minutes to say if someone's good with a character they do good if they aren't they wont? Play positioning, play things that can play around her. Things really aren't that hard, a character and their players shouldn't have to get nerfed because YOU cant figure yourself out.
Of course it should stay - if you were caught out in the open, either ignoring or challenging a widowmaker you couldn't contest because of distance, then you have made a severe lapse of judgement (same for if you "uu didn't know they have a widowmaker") and deserve to eat the bullet, regardless of 'aim', 'aim luck' or whatever
Widow is healthy for the game because she requires good positioning, aim, and gets easily hard countered by dive heroes. There are several heroes way more unhealthy than her.
a character whose only balancing factor is whether or not the player can click heads won't ever be good design in Overwatch. in this game almost every characters flat out have a weakness the player has to work with. Reaper has bad range no matter how good you are Winston will always do low dmg Ana will always lack mobility Is widow bad up close? well, if you miss your shot is widow bad against, mobile heroes? well, if you miss your shot can you get outsniped by other characters? well, if you miss your shot
You get to sit in the back UNCONTESTED exploiting people who are actually trying to play the OBJECTIVE BASED GAME as design. The second you're at any risk you just grapple away. There's nothing "healthy" about deleting people unseen from the other side of the map because you can see a pixel. Zero engagement, Zero Risk, Zero Interfacing, but all reward. It's cheap.
Dude she always could 1 shot since overwatch 1 and its funny how y’all complain about this and not call of duty YALL JUST TRASH if u cant counter her its a skill issue
I would've loved a section from the widow's victims point of view.
Like just a 10 second clip, of players walking normally and instantly being sent back to spawn.
Familiar position for ya?
So fucking annoying. I won't understand why she isn't hated as much as Sombra is. Maybe even more, cause you won't even have a chance to fight.
Well... Have you considered, maybe... NOT walking normally?
@@dumelisdumelis widow's fair just don't get out of spawn
Widow can also be impactful without hitting shots, simply through the pressure of her existence, which in itself can lead to frustration, but without making her teammates feel helped.
Also I somehow didn't discuss how she has been affected by the map design but I think you know roughly how anyways
Ikr. When there's an enemy Widow I actively play like shit regardless of if they are good or not, out of fear of getting one shot
Tbh, she's the most opressive hero in the game. Like, not even sombra before nerf nor tracer are as opressive as her... and both of those are incredibly scary on the right hands(well, tracer, sombra was just annoying, like a mosquito buzzing in your ear but not particularly deadly)
@@Fairy-Uvinq It's actually hilarious how you basically just confessed that you do not play Wm.
@@tosemusername I do. Not my problem you mofos are delusional about your main
She needs a scope glint because majority of the time she’s in spots where you can’t even see her
I've said this before and i'll say it again, Paladins of all games does its sniper heroes a lot better. They are about consistency rather than an all or nothing shot to the head, they feel A LOT more fair to play against while still being a menace on the right hands, they can still provide value to their team sice they can help wear down the tank but they're not oppressive for the enemy squishies.
And has 7000 active players that game is not better than ow.
It doesn’t have to be a better overall game in order to have better aspects. I’ve never played Paladins so I don’t know how accurate mr.g is, but I do know that a game can do some things very well and still be unsuccessful as a whole
@@rkrams1989lmfao why u got so defensive
Paladins is more MOBA than FPS, different formula. Also, it's got way more heroes. Thanks but no thanks. In the end, it's a comparison of subjective tradeoffs. I like the concept of oppressing squishes, and spreading out Wm's kit is an shit idea.
Paladins overall was always way more balanced than overwatch.
8:20 The dude wasn't even visible for a pixel... Like, wtf. How is that fun?
It’s because blizzard increased hit box sized
@@cheezy9143 That was in overwatch 1
@@evanchoo6638 so now it's worse
Gotta love seeing a widow with both supports lapping at her feet so she just dominates the entire match unless your entire teams coordinates to jump her at once (goodluck with that in qp)
no but venture one shotting you at close range after committing all cooldowns and pulling off an elaborate combo is broken, but its fine when widow does it from across the map where you cant even challenge her
Considering the amount of commitment the enemy team is making, shouldn't your team attempt to at least match it in order to defeat them? Also, QP? LMAO
@@void4595Who gives a f about Venture?
@@void4595 Do you want to know the difference? Venture instantly kills you by spamming buttons and abilities, you can do nothing about it and it took them NO skill OR mechanical ability whatsoever. Widowmaker ACTUALLY has to hit a charged headshot while not being killed. No one with any mechanical ability or aim would think that widow can "Just" do it. If I get nailed by a widow I think "nice shot" When I die to a venture spamming buttons in my face like a toddler I think "wow, they REALLY earned that kill huh"
@@tosemusernamethat's literally what they're saying, you're just agreeing with them but in a weird way. Widow isn't a character that one person can play around/counter on their own. You need a team effort, and that's very uncommon in QP and the metal ranks, which is important because that's roughly half the playerbase. QP may be irrelevant to you, you're just an OW player. It's not irrelevant to Blizzard, because they're the OW devs, not players. QP-only players are taken into consideration with their balancing changes, the hitbox updates proved that.
You're weirdly hostile for no reason my man.
The first clip alone shows why I hate this character with a passion
Yep makes sense
I mean thats literally one of the best players on the planet like 99.9 percent of people couldnt do that
Ironically it's also the framework in which such a thing is the least likely to happen, or most likely to be countered, so in a way, it's a great thing that it happened, and should be admired and enjoyed as such.
@@tosemusername yea lol instead of people hating appreciate how insane that clip is
@@vinitchauhan2928 What are you talking about? Literally all widowmakers can do this. (Sorry man, bad players literally have no concept of skill or mechanical ability or potential. to people like these, every genji ult is necros doing a perfect nanoblade, and every widow is literally aimbotting)
If ANY other character is able to get 3 kills in a second with just their primary fire, they would get nerfed instantly. Idk why blizzard has such a hard-on for widow
That's all Widow does. Hanzo is much better with his abilities adding more on the table and one shooting.
No one plays Widow 76.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615fuck widow players who cares if their character can do absolutely nothing
@@SnoozeSSB13 year old found
The entire character design revolves around that being possible but equally as unlikely to happen, you f idiot. I think we can agree that's very unlikely to change because we know Wm does make Blizzard money, but if we were to go by game balance and design alone, Wm's concept, from a game designer's perspective, is still appealing. And if you disagree, you should know that I'm writing this laughing at yours, the idiots who are just as dumb as you, and the rest of this echo chamber's pathetic discontent with this.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Hanzo is honestly worse. If im dying to a hanzo, 9 times out of 10 it is just because he fired an arrow into a group if people or he was prefiring an angle. Not to mention walls on a 15 second cooldown.
Snipers, because every first person shooter has them. So there is no escaping them.
pretty much
Even then TF2's sniper had a slower charging rate for his shoy AND a visible dot for everyone to see where he it's aiming.
@@PanthalassaRo still bs, the machina is a crutch, and jarate/bushwaka combo still sucks to fight against.
@@martinkarleskind8697agree with you that TF2’s sniper is the most oppressive class, but the machina sucks. The bazaar bargain and stock are far and away the best snipers. I might even go as far as saying the BB is the single best weapon in the entire game.
Same with turrets, cant escape them.
I feel like they just added her because every shooter has a sniper. I think Sojourn is a much more healthy approach to burst hitscan damage because you can outplay her with a lot of the cast. Widow forces you to go dive and on some maps you need to coordinate with your entire team to kill her(which for most ranks is pretty rare).
LMAO another idiot factoring in team coordination in hero balance/design discussion. The reason why you think Sojourn is a better concept is because she's another flavor of Soldier 76, the quintessential FPS character, with some design differences, but in the end, very familiar, both in playing it and countering it.
Bro shes an OG character dumb ahh yall new gens trash
Instant Kill mechanics in general work best in PVE games. With PVP it's hard to balance in any way that is fair and fun for both sides. In most games Snipers have to deal with low ammo count, bullet drop or weapon sway. Helmets or other armor stopping an instant kill, and often firing from hundreds of meters away. Oh and scope glint and other tells giving away their position.
Mean while Widow has unlimited ammo, OW Maps are generally fairly close ranged affairs. If Widow does die she has good mobility and can be a threat from super far away if the sight lines favor the Widow. She is also basically untouchable to anything but another sniper in the higher ranks.
It's pretty telling the only thing stopping Widow from being God Tier is player skill. Especially after various counters to Snipers like shields were nerfed into oblivion.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming The part about mobility is wrong, but the rest is on point. It's why my 2 biggest gripes with this game are the small hero pool and the gigantic character hitboxes. The first is a general issue, being the lack of enough diversity in overall strengths, something which every MOBA or MOBA-like goes through in the beginning. And the stupid hitboxes, in the name of "consistency", also blow perceived issues out of proportion simply because it's easier to hit things from afar.
@@tosemusername I would say Widow has more than fair mobility, not top tier but "Good" is still good. She has both vertical and horizontal options with her grapple, which last I looked was only on an 8 second CD. It also has quit a bit of power to it, allowing her to sling shot over buildings to get a shot even if she can't actually climb on them.
Add all that to her range of effectiveness is basically unlimited long as there is line of sight, it makes her hard to deal with. You have to go extremely out of position to chase her down, and if she dies Widow generally has far less ground to cover to come back into the fight with some maps allowing short cuts with her grapple.
@@JustaGuy_Gaming Grapple cd is 13s, which is why I agree with you about the more than fair mobility, for a sniper in Overwatch, and should address most of your concerns.
About the unlimited range part, comparatively yeah, I guess?! But on itself, it's not true thanks to the falloff nerf, which I take issue with conceptually, but not in practice, as it serves its purpose currently.
I’m decent at widow, but I don’t play her enough to use in my lobbies, however whenever I do use widow. All it takes is 1 kill, and that alone will put pressure on the entire enemy team, even if you don’t hit a single headshot after.
Show me your rank, then we'll talk. I watch a lot of Kenzo's and Kephrii's streams, and although owning lobbies sometimes, they still lose about half of the games, bar some lucky random win streaks here and there, usually accompanied by losing streaks. And that's even with them switching to others heroes. I'm high plat/low dia, and can't attest that statement, and even with kill streaks, games generally go either way.
@@tosemusername I’m currently gm3 on dps, there’s a difference for what I mean by pressure.
If they start off without any heroes that can effectively contest a widow and your team plays somewhat decent, that starter kill will cause a more cautious playstyle and force them to most likely swap. But before that time it allows time to go by, creating higher odds for winning. But after that I do just go back to my main, Widow lasts until I die and hopefully creates that opportunity
Not trying to be rude but I think “show me your rank, then we’ll talk” is kind of a stupid thing to say. Even if kaitofv was bronze his comment would still be valid as they were simply giving their perspective and personal experience. Also the phrase just comes off to me as inherently disrespectful, but others may disagree
@@kaitofvThat is true, however, it's not a given, and up to the widow to make it happen, even on favorable matchups, because if she doesn't, the only thing she'll have accomplished was giving enemy supports ult charge. In the end, it's a tradeoffs, and I personally am satisfied with the current design, unlike OP, reddit, and this comment section.
@@BPViking I disagree. It's probably not very polite, which I don't care, and to top it off, I came from a StarCraft 2 background, where your opinion, at face value, carries as much weight as your rank. Emphasis on the "face value" part, since he hadn't elaborated his point enough to eliminate the chance of rank being a factor.
Widow’s an interesting character, in the right hands she can be absolutely unstoppable. Even with an amateur player, if they can hit their shots, then even those players have an intimidating presence when they play the hero.
Obviously confirmation bias, but I notice the only people being hostile (or initiating hostility) in the comments are widow defenders. I imagine there’s a correlation between the character that is designed to lessen everyone else’s fun and only focus on yours and being an asshole.
One shots do not belong in competitive games they’re just as bad as immortalities and perma stealth.
@@AnimeOtaku56. You definitely shouldn't play Overwatch and go play something else then. The game has resurrection, aimbot, walls, perma stealth, and to some extent, immortality, so wtf are you still doing playing it?
@@tosemusername All of these can be countered pretty easily if people use their brain, but obviously that's too much to expect from the average player
@@pwpqwq7648 Then why are Top 500 players complaining about Immortality?
@@waterrr6332same reason people hate shields. They aren't fun to play against
Ever since they buffed projectile sizes widow sees more play in lower ranks as well. Lets remember that a character like hanzo had those buffs removed despite being inconsistent in landing headshots due to being a projectile character while widow, the hitscan character, hasnt been touched. It boggles the mind why this character gets protected by a lot of players on the count of "skill" when all they do is hold an angle. Sure they have good aim but their skill ends there and it isnt enough of a reason for her to have this kinda lethality.
One shots are never good in a game like OW. Players need a chance to react or do something in a fight. It's no fun when a decent widow gets off 3 headshots in a row at any range, either through skill or just shear luck. Only one person is having fun there, while 2 or 3 players on the other team are not having fun.
Agreed. If one character (that’s not a tank) can change the entire flow of a game just by existing they are an awful design. Everyone has to play differently when there is a widow
I don't know why they haven't added one shot protection yet. It would solve so many balancing issues blizzard has been dealing with.
No instance of damage should be greater than 90% of max HP.
No skill kid found
@@Takemura77 My bad man 🤡
I appreciate the skill issue diagnosis..
@@Takemura77 I love when instead of giving constructive critisism. Niggas say "Get good". like good lord go take a walk and say something helpfull when your done.
your either young or just imature
@@Takemura77 i take it you dont have friends?
Its not ok, thanks for asking
Get Gud
@@tosemusernameget a life outside of the game
@@tosemusernamenot the w*dow player talking🤢
@tosemusername, do you have any actual advice, or are you just gonna shout git gud like it helps?
@@grs3ntinel I mean, it is true. If you have aim, great positioning and awareness, you can murder with Widow. If not.. then you gotta get good. Hanzo on the other hand is just total bs. Positioning can suck and you can still be good, your aim can suck and you can still hit some lucky hs and he can easily stay with his team so has actual protection.
I've watched several of your videos in a row now, and never actually looked at your account. To say i was shocked would be an understatement when i saw your sub count. Incouldnt believe the it, especially with the quality of these history/essay style videos you've put out. I was expecting sub count to be well above 100K. You're doing incredible work, keep it up 🔥🔥💪💪
I'm really happy you liked the videos so much. I only recently started making these history videos, and since my older videos had no clear direction I was never able to build up many subs. But now I feel like I've finally found the right style and hope I can continue to entertain you with future videos which I keep trying to improve
I'd say no but since she has her spidey BBL it's ok
Love losing all my comp games by a Widow with a Mercy and Brig pocket, soooo much fun 😀
That's just coping, dude.
That’s 2/5 players on the other team who need los to get value. Get better
@@tosemusername
Give it a rest, your character is broken and you don't want to admit it. 😂
One shots have always been one of my main problems in overwatch. Widow just feels downright unfair, and Hanzo did as well. In a game like overwatch, a hero shooter, some one shots feel broken. Reinhard's charge is a fair one shot because of the amount of commitment it needs to secure that kill. Widow just sits across the map and clicks heads and call it fair.
One more problem is, her only true counter is another Widow or Hanzo, and let's be real, you're gonna be flexing to Widow while trying to outplay a Widow main most of the time.
Idk if you take requests, but I would like for a Lifeweaver video next. I know he hasn't been our for that long but he has been among the least used hero in higher ranks and would like to hear how you would rework his kit. Other than that love all your videos
I'm very glad you've been enjoying my videos thus far. As you said Lifeweaver is quite a new hero and so I don't expect to be giving him a video soon (although you never know) as I want to give OW2 heroes a little more time to develop first. For the coming few videos expect more ow1 heroes, but at the same time I won't go through every ow1 hero before I start with newer ones. Even then, it'll probably be at least a couple of months, so sorry if this answer wasn't quite was you wanted to hear.
@BPViking I was expecting it, but it's fair. OW1 heroes have been out for 6+ years at this point compared to LW. Looking forward to the next video
@BPViking, if you are taking requests, can you do a comparison video, doing a video on why most players like X character, while most players hate Y. I think it could be a good piece of content that i don't think other content creators have done
Could be interesting. I won’t say wether I will or won’t rn but I’ll keep your suggestion in mind
the problem comes down to the instant coming without warning. duh, right? so i propose she has a laser pointer when in sniper mode. She retains lane pressure where she has LoS look, and one shots become less instant and more a skill issue on the recipients side. this will also make it insanely easy to tell if the widowmaker is cheating.
I think the way you make Widow less annoying is by making Widow's Kiss's scope shot do less damage the *closer* Widowmaker is. This way Widow can keep her one-shot sniper archetype while also encouraging casuals to get in her face and actually learn how to take advantage of movement abilities. Widow at mid-range doing mid damage means she'll still be impactful, picking off those lower hp enemies while also helping her team get kills. Maybe as compensation for such a heavy change, you can improve her movement speed while scoped and let her jump so she isn't as vulnerable, and also buff her HP a smidge.
LMAO just... no. Clearly you don't play sniper characters.
@@tosemusernamei don’t think it’s bad, if you get closer to her she just needs to reposition but no so easily that the enemies can’t jump her
@@tosemusername I used to be a charger main in splatoon where a system thats *kind of similar* exists, except instead of it being a direct nerf to damage while closer, its the fact that chargers take a longer time to reach their one shot than Widow does (except for the Squiffer and Bamboo lmao), so when enemies are closer wasting the time to get full charge might not always be the best for your team. I reworked this idea to be more compatible for Overwatch where any given situation is a lot more dynamic than in Splatoon.
@@HeavyHebi Alright. First off, the built-in presumption that change is needed? Yeah, no, it doesn't, and I'll touch on why at the end. Second, the concept is dumb af in my opinion because it breaks Newtonian Physics. Conceptually, it's not dumb, it just doesn't fit within Overwatch, CS, and basically every major FPS game in recent history, which promptly discards the idea. Third, there is already encouragement to close the distance to snipers in the game in the form of both the need to address them, stemming from the one-shot potential, and exponentially decreasing the advantage Wm has over the enemy team by doing so. So you can choose between diffing the Widow by sniping her, or being unable to do so, default back to closing the distance, which is a valid counter-play mechanic, which leads me to my problem with the premise of the issue, that the current design is fundamentally flawed, but it isn't, and it's working as intended. Deep down, that's a conjecture about a subjective topic, so you can't prove it's flawed, and I can't disprove it, so I can only say this: If the one shot mechanic is significantly nerfed or removed, I'll stop playing the game. I fundamentally believe the current design around Wm to be sound (except the imposed fall-off nerf, which should be addressed by map design, and the plague of gigantic character hitboxes in this game), and I invite people here to try to get good with her, and play against equally good opponents. If after that you still feel the same way about it, complain to Blizzard, let them choose which side's more profitable, and we'll have our answer.
@@tosemusername 1. I never presumed that change was needed, I simply gave an example of how I would make Widow less annoying. You don't NEED to change Widow, she already makes sense, this is about making other players feel like they have more of a chance.
2. I don't necessarily think tradition/convention is a valid argument for why something shouldn't be changed.
3. Overwatch already defies reality, Widowmaker is purple and has no emotions because her heart rate got slowed down by a woman who can make a magic yellow circle that works as a cure-all.
4. I'm already aware that diving the Widow is how you beat her, but being close to Widow doesn't eliminate the one shot potential, which is the issue people have with Widow. You can get close to Widow and still get one-shot, which is also annoying for people who dislike Widow because you get punished for playing properly.
5. Something can be doing PRECISELY what its designed for and still be flawed. For example, I think Mauga has a flawed design, and he's doing PRECISELY what he was advertised and designed to do. For a less realistic example, I could give Zen a one-shot body kill with discord orb to improve his kill potential, and that would be STUPID, but accomplish what I set out to do.
6. You're right, whether or not something is flawed is subjective, where some people see bugs, others see features. However, what I disagree with is just taking whatever Blizzard says as the "correct" answer, because I do not believe that Blizzard is a perfect dev team who has a perfect understanding of the game and what their players want.
7. If you don't wanna play Overwatch because your favorite character got nerfed and now you have to play a tiny bit differently, that is a skill issue my guy.
8. I don't like playing as Widowmaker, I've tried it out for a while, I did pretty well, it's just not really my thing.
0:43 someone into widows
first off: this video is of really high quality i can't believe it's from a channel this size. anyways, i don't think that one shots should be in the game at all (with a few exceptions like rein's pin) and widow's is easily the worst one shot that's here right now. my solution would be to give her a cooldown that buffs her next scoped shot/shots that allows her to one shot and has a visual indicator for both teams. one shotting is part of her identity and it would be unfair to take that away from her, but in it's current state it's pretty much just a nightmare to deal with, especially if you're playing support and can't reliably deal with her by yourself.
Great to hear that you liked the video. I think you’ve made some good conclusions and have the start of a potential solution. This kind of thing is very difficult to traverse due to all the things you have to consider. For example, how would you redistribute the power, how would this affect her playstyle, would this make big enough of a difference to play against etc etc. It’s just a balancing act between positives and negatives at the end of the day where a plethora of different factors need to be considered. Your suggestion could be a potential direction, although one I doubt they’d take considering how little they’ve done thus far.
One shots should be for things like spreads at point blank. Reaper or Genji. Because closing that gap actually takes risk.
To everyone who thinks and agrees with this, I'm a high Plat Low Dia Wm main that enjoys and feeds on you all having a bad experience playing this game because of this particular aspect, and in some games, I'm reminded that you people exist, and everytime I dunk on you, I feel an immense satisfaction in knowing that you're getting shafted. And next time this issue comes up on /r/overwatch, feel free to remember this when you're crying about it.
With that said, if the concept of the hero is to change so as to remove the one shot from the game, which is what you mob of tards want, and is a possibility given that Blizzard has absolutely no vision for this game, design-wise, and heroes can hardly be said to have real identities (they randomly made soldier gay, changed McCree's name, retconned Diva's StarCraft background and rework heroes left and right), I'd just quit playing.
To me, it would look like they went back on their particular sniper concept for Overwatch since the beginning of the game, which had contributed to make the entire formula a success. It would also mean they chose to sacrifice Wm instead of fixing the hitbox problem. That they by then decided to cater to you tards isn't as big a problem as the 2 I mentioned. I'm biased, but if you're arguing for significant cooldown on scoped shots and visible scoping indicators as a nerf to a sniper, let alone Wm, you're not only biased, you're a clueless biased idiot. Plus OP calling for the dismantling of the very concept that makes Wm unique in Overwatch and across snipers in general is just peak Facepalm moment.
@@nerdstorma8427for genji yes for reaper no
LOL Just... no, dummy. Go play TF :)
legit just remove her one-shot and make her be able to deal more consistent damage and boom. she's more fun to fight and less gimmicky.
Sped found
@@rustedcrabtm6438 F u c k N o p e! Good day 👍🏻
so basically ashe
@@rustedcrabtm6438 > less gimmicky
You're retarded.
@ yes.
@2:20, that looks like what might be the new tank.
OW Devs: "Every FPS needs a Sniper and everyone loves Snipers because of instant-kill capability. So we will always make Widow viable."
Widowmaker is the biggest problem of Overwatch and the dev team knows it too (they once talked about they would be very careful if they ever released a character that is as powerful as widow) . Sadly it's a little too late, her whole personality and 70% of voice lines is about "one shot, one kill".
I'll come back to the game if they somehow fix her at some point
Sped found
@@Takemura77"Why make a point when I can use slurs"
I wonder if she'll be reworked within the next two seasons because after sombra's public execution she's been in all my games 😅
Like Tracer can't get her if she moves from high ground to high ground and genji is just a wait out deflect then shoot character so Sombra was her only true counter and she's f tier
Breh I main genji and It’s not like that at all u just flank her and 1 shot her. Or if she’s looking at u deflect to get closer and then 1 shot and save dash for when she grapples away then chase her and free kill.
@@محمدمحمد-ش4د6ك Mate, genji have one of, if not the best mobility of any dps hero right now. How do you expect most of the slow ass dps to get to her in a timely manner?
@@محمدمحمد-ش4د6كwhen she’s being pocketed it isn’t that easy.
Widow is literally the easier hero to counter, even new sombra kills her with ease and 80% of the community cannot play widow at all
@@Fairy-Uvinq the point isn’t killing her all the time ur still using making her use her grapple cooldown and making the support invest her heals into the widow which is gonna slow her down and allow ur team to push.
Nobody gets esports commentators hard quite like Widow.
Snipers are CANCER in every fps.
its okay because she’s a baddie
Ikr... she works for the evil team Talon ^w^
Go outside get help
All 50 of you
No, it’s not.
You're so l ame
I gotta say This is a great video but it seemed to forget the single biggest thing that influenced widow. the playerbase got better and better an oppressive widow became more and more common. the fact of the matter is her design has and always be. bad as long as her performance depends entirely on how consistently the player in question can click head
That is true. Of course all heroes are affected by increase in player skill over time but I forgot to consider that widow is perhaps affected more by this than some others
"Her design will inherently be bad so long as it relies on skill" HAHAHAHAHA I admire your honesty.
@@tosemusername Found the Widow main.
i think she would be significantly better as just a regular bolt action sniper character but it didn’t one shot headshot. she would have a lot more utility based abilities. ashe and sojourn are just better healthier versions of widow. i really don’t know how they could rework her without completely ruining the character or just being a better/worse version of the other 2 heros i just mentioned
i dont mind one shots, i mind the time in between shots. having a slightly longer recharge rate or not being able to shoot until fully charged would justify a one shot
Fair enough
Most definitely an unpopular opinion, but I think widow is some what balanced only due to the amount of mobility that every character has as well as the difference in hotboxes and health. Maps can also play a big role. On one hand, certain maps, it can be extremely hard to get value on with widow. And on the other, there are maps that are obviously in widows favor. Not to mention team comps. In most cases, if a tank goes dive and marks a widow it can be hard to even exist as a widow.
The oneshot uptime its WAY too high. If they want to keep it, it has to be lower uptime. In a 5v5 format a 3v5 its NOT winnable.
She's not that hard to balance for everybody. Increase the damage on her SMG, increase the damage on her spider-mine, and make it so she can't one-shot headshot. (even with a mercy pocket) She can only have one shot in her ult, but in her ult bring back her old damage that could one shot in the body most squishes because it's supposed to be a DPS ult.
With these changes, she keeps her lore accuracy and isn't super oppressive or useless most of the time since she will play like a budget Soldier until she gets her ult. Then when she does have her ult she can still get eliminations even if she's in the hands of a bronze newbie.
The 0 counterplay, unskilled broken cheat character that is still somehow allowed in this game smh
She has to aim that's a skill
@@MangaBear xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
@@MangaBear Lmao, anyone can freaking aim. Hell, even if its a fluke, that alone will have significant impact on that fight alon
Aiming is a skill...
@@bcndooz3294 Anyone can aim. Even a shitter like me can find value in Widow even if I miss my first 6 shots and hit the 7th headhshot by luck.
Love these video essays💜
I 100% reject the comments with the “every fps has it so…”
Annnd? Overwatch isn’t like every other fps. This game does not need something so fucking toxic. Especially current overwatch. Yeah let’s never set a new modern normal. Good thing people of the past didn’t think like that or we wouldn’t have cars, planes etc.
same people who think we can’t completely reinvent this archaic ranked system that was based on 1v1 players. But now is used to punish you individually for team based gameplay. Where 9 other people can ruin you with their own free will and you get punished.
Such great thinking. Humans can go from not even having a wheel or fire to having literal space ships but you’re right we could never create a way better system for ranked games. Implausible
Cry about it
I would like to add in other fps games snipers experience flinch when you shoot at them and that does not seem to be the case in this game
That Fleta clip is still my favorite Widow clip of all time
Mine too, that final as a whole was epic
My history with widow has been as rocky as her balancing history. I started absolutely hating her as I was a passive support main. Then as a slowly became better at the game and started playing dps myself she became less significant. If the other team had her I didn’t instantly freak out like before. And then one day… I locked her in a quick play…. And I realized… I’m actually pretty good at her for my rank and I have done nothing but click heads ever since lol I like her better now to be honest. I hate playing broken characters and I love when it takes work to express skill with them. When I win a game with her I feel like I actually accomplished something not like when I win with Pharrah or something like that (which sorry to her mains but imo is so easy to get value out of just by shooting the floor). I don’t really feel good when I win with her. I love widow. Thanks for the vid.
How dare you, say flying women doesn’t express skill.
Lining up rockets.
Deciding when to stay on the ground and when to fly.
Finding ways to flank the enemy team.
Dude how do i make the colors like that? 13:00 that white and purple
Those colours were used specifically for spectating the Overwatch League, although you can probably change your own to something similar through the colourblind settings
with how much they buffed supports and tanks in the course of overwatch life span. as dps player I say, widow is not annoying because one shot is overpowered, widow is annoying because how strong high ground is in overwatch 2 and how little impact you can have against her. in overwatch1 widow was strong but at least you could control her with off tanks like dva or ball and because you had 2 tanks, other dps players could take long flanks or position against her with tank cover. now in overwatch 2, if you take long flank you are basically throwing and your tank simply don't have enough time or recourses to cover for you dealing with widow. so killing a hero far behind enemy line on a pretty far and safe high ground trough huge amount of healing and cover that supports can dish out is annoying. if by some miracle dev team some day reduce the amount of sustain and defensive abilities in the game by big margin, widow will become way less annoying.
They could start by nerfing the egregious hero hitboxes, consequently nerfing long and medium range gameplay. Only after this point we could start discussing the next step.
Unless a game already has incredibly fast kill time, ranged one shots will be unhealthy regardless of the skill needed
Widow was never this annoying in 6v6 there was always a Dva or Winston in her face.
tbh just make Widow sniper an ult only.
I don't have problem with widow when I duel her alone the problem is dueling her in team.. have to fight bap/lamp mercy/res illari,brig, Lucio babysitter or tank... I can duel her with tracer or genji the problem is the amount of hoops you have to jump until you kill her.. the effort to protect her is too easy compared to get rid of her mostly due to support removing her weakness
For overwatch o e shot should not be possible because its an hero shooter if it was something like halo it could be fine
maybe making her projectile like a sniper from apex would be better? i don't know, though
The problem then is she basically becomes hanzo with a scope but I see what you’re thinking
Making it like vantages sniper could work well. Hit a weaker first shot and mark the target. When you hit them again it does more damage.
Depending on things like mark duration and how it interacts with charge, could be an interesting solution.
I only played overwatch 1 so my memory might be a bit blurry, but as I remember no one was extremely annoyed over Widowmaker when she played good on either team. However no one liked a bad widow as your teammate. Mostly because they never switched to a better suited hero.
People hate widow as there is only one tank to protect the team so widow can get way more opportunities to one shot people. And a lot of the tanks don’t have shields to protect the team easily
@BigPro1123 I believe you. I have never played the new 5v5 play style, but i do remember that in 6v6 one tank had to be one of those with a shield.
@@Joel-bi9npThere didn't have to be a shield tank in 6v6, but the odds of not having at least one were fairly slim, and it made Widow a lot less oppressive.
Now they design around her with adding shorter sightlines and more cover to the new maps. The older ones haven't changed much and thus she's more dominant there.
@@OakenTomeeven if there was only shield tank on OW1 the other could be a Dva or Winston who can dive the widow without risk of getting one shot.
She should take longer to reach 100% charge and every scoped shot should waste 10 ammo from her mag
The game would benefit immensely if Damage fall off was increased even more
How miserable it feels to fight against a hero that can keep its distance all the time like Pharah, Echo or Widow
Where's sam?, leaking in the background no doubt
The problem with Widow is magazine size. It's difficult for most characters to kill more than 2 or more characters at full health with one magazine. It's not uncommon to see a cracked Widow kill 3 or even 4 characters at the start of a team fight without reloading.
That used to be true, before the charged-shots-now-cost-5-ammo nerf. We used to be able to somewhat rely on the rifle mode for close range, but nowadays, if you're not Kenzo and you're not consistently pulling insane flicks, if you close the distance to Wm, she's dead, and this is true even in GM lobbies. And do you see Wm playesbcomplaining about it? Me neither.
10:18 Lmfao the text chat
Didn’t even realise lol
You have to remember that one shots are really only kinda an issue at Diamond and an issue for masters+ it doesn’t affect 60% of the player base at all nearly.
Damn i miss ow1 ui so much.
a point and click hitscan has no business one shotting in a game like OW get her out
But let me guess you think genji should be viable; when whenever he’s meta he’s essentially one shoting someone before they could react but unlike widow you can’t LOS Genji because he gets dash resets and has significantly better mobility.
If genjis ever meta i would quit the game. Hes so unbearable@@ExclusiveExcellence
I suppose we should get rid of Soldier, Cassidy, Ashe especially too, how about Baptiste, also Bastion (The definition of point and click adventure). Don't be absurd.
If you use cover, she won't hit you, just because you can't deal with widow, doesn't mean she needs to be removed lmao
@totalwhitetrash Ngl man. I think using cover all game just so you don't get insta killed. is Pretty lame. and well i don't play Overwatch to play in a lame way.
yes but they should make them more killable instead of just trying to nerf the 1 shot
widowmaker is even fucking worse than the tf2 counterpart, the sniper. here, you can go anywhere, have a trap to alert you of flankers, a better gun, and wallhacks. sniper has a few guns.
Delete widowmaker
i think snipers are far easier to deal with in overwatch than any other fps games.....
True. In Overwatch it’s a lot easier to deal with since you can pick certain heroes who specialise in diving widow. At the same time, considering Overwatch’s general gameplay style, the presence of a one shot sniper can feel worse than in eg a tactical shooter where you get used to getting one shot by ARs all the time. So it goes both ways
Expect when the widow/ other snipers are being pocketed my supports 24/7, can’t really deal with them.
It’s far easier when compared to val or cod
no hero limits is the natural fix to widow,, cuz you can just go 5 tanks
Not in the way widow has it. Look at spy from tf2, he's an instakill, but nobody complains about him. Why? Because he has to earn his Insta kill by tricking the enemy team, and sneaking around them with his cloak. He needs to be right behind them for the Insta kill.
widow is just inherently unhealthy for the game. characters like hanzo, junk, were fine old doom. you put yourself at risk and in danger in order to one shot headshot but widow can just sit in narnia and click on heads. the other characters can actually coordinate and don’t SOULY rely on one shot mechanics. old doom was a dive hero so he worked well with other dive hero’s. hanzo was a solid poke character pressuring shields and the infamous grav dragon. junk is great at spamming down chokes. widow just sits in the back and clicks on heads. unhealthy garbage hero design the only silver lining is it’s really fun to go for widow players as lucio
LMAO, I feed on you bad experience. Give me some more of those tears, go on. I completely disagree with you, I think your point of view is diametrically opposite to what's right, but it doesn't matter what either of us thinks, you're not getting your way today, we'll keep plowing you, and I'm really having a good laugh writing this.
@@tosemusernamecringe
@@tosemusernamegirl get out of the comment section, you look foolish. Keep coping with the fact that no one likes your shitty hero design. Instead of looking stupid on youtube, go play in traffic or smth idk
@@tosemusername Narcissistic ass comment that reeks of a superiority complex over playing an oprresive hero that fundamentally is toxic for a game like Overwatch
@@w1nther930 You're welcome :D
The ones complaining about widows one shot are the same ones that won’t swap to do anything about it
Here some perfect idea how to make her more balanced:
1) if she can one shot you in the head, all dps should do that to her
2) low ammo on the mag
3) less speed mobility
4) make her with 150 health
5) or make her one shot into a 2 shots, so she can't one shot anymore but keeps her health, ammo, speed.
You need a very good aim to one shot but to counter play her is really difficult, if a widow maker doesn't miss you entire team is basically gone💀
1. half baked, she already is pretty low hp and if she doesnt react to focus fire she can die pretty fast. I would say it'd be good to remove some fall off so this is easier
2. Already sorta low but why not
3. She already has very little mobility, she only gets grappling hook what, like every twelve seconds???
4. She already has lowish health compared to every other character but sure, 150 it is.
5. Dead character, Literally just play ashe. You ALREADY need pretty good aim to play widow, yeah duh, if a widow doesnt miss your teams gonna get eaten alive. IF. and its probably the biggest if in the game. If cas hits every shot, if soldier hits every shot, you're cooked. Honestly I'd be more afraid of an aimbot cassidy than an aimbot widow.
I have no issues with oneshots in Overwatch because usually if you get killed by one it was because you either weren't fast enough, weren't standing in a safe area, or were caught off guard by a character that outplayed and outmaneuvered you.
Basically the one shot characters that I see take actual skill to use and if you get one shot it is your fault. That's why I have not problem with being one shot and having one shots in the game.
If people think Genji is fine going bananas with one shot combos and dash resets, I think Widow is perfectly fine.
do you not understand how a 50 meter hitscan one shot is stronger than genjis combos and dash resets?
@@PrestonCow I understand that perfectly fine, however do you understand that’s only in the case of the Widow having Great aim (so like
A lot of Overwatch got kinda fucked when it switched to 5v5... not sure what the devs were thinking. Sure, DPS queue times went down... and tank enjoyment went out the window. Fuck the DPS, man. Make tank fun again. Most DPS just got better, as did supps.
I think people out themselves as weak sauce gamers when they complain about snipers one shots in fps.
She can literally te wipe in 10 seconds, TEN SECONDS, idc if you feel she feel she takes skill no hero woth skill shluld br able to do that 😭 so yes, TAKE HER ONE SHOT AWAY
Soyboy found
it was OK in OW1 because not that many people had the skills to carry like in these clips you show. but in ow2 its like 20% of the players aimbotin. So you get at least 1 in every other match. Its just not fun. and with the recent sombra changes going to make it worse.
Sniping isnt the issue high caliber rifles are meant to do dmg, the problem with widow is 5v5 everyone out in the open and her snappy sights, rifles arent supposed to move like that, in 6v6 eith proper shielding and teamwork where everyone is aware of their positioning the most important thibg in a team shooter even more important than aim she cant do much she is created to punish aggressive players and heroes. But they want everyone to make a play so you get this problem overwatch used to be a gamers of all sorts could find a role for their skills and help the team in this cod free for all ofc one shot is op. The favr the devs didnt thibj of that and or pushed towards it shows how incompetent they are and how ow doesnt deserve another shot.. Ppl may forget but ow has been in a broken mess or meta sinds like 2017 its time to let go they wont make it better 6v6 was better format for the game type and most hero designs and they couldnt there either so yh
am going to piss off the entire GAMING SENE but i don’t care ehm
snipers ANY KIND don’t I repeat DO NOT BELONG IN FPS GAMES
they slow the game to a crawl ruin ANY slow tactic and finally have literally infinite skill sealing sooo
WHY DO DEVELOPERS STILL PUT THEM IN GAMES FOR CRIST SAKE MULTIPLAYER DO NOT NEED SNIPERS STOPPPPPP
Snipers do belong, just not in a brawl like game like Overwatch. Paladins do snipers well
@@w1nther930 ok i meant sniper rifles
you know one to 2 hit ko from any range?
(that’s why am ok whit them in splatoon they have no movement options or poor range ok)
Unlike most FPS games, sniper archetype are far easier to deal with in OW due to wide variety of characters with unique play style along with variety of maps. In fact in 2018, i learn to play ice witch ahem Mei, so i can force widow to swap. Oh the memories.
Bronze
People complaining about one shot just don’t know how to play against a widow 🤦♂️🤦♂️I bet the same people complaining are the ones peaking widows when they have 100% charged shot
So the counter to Widow is the same counter to every fucking hitscan in the game which is, don't peek them. 🤦
Hey so then all the top players dont know how to play against widow? Because they are all complaining about her too
You take away her one shot ability, someone other hitscan is just gonna get it(prob sojourn again or a new hero) and she becomes a weaker Ashe. She’s probably never gonna get changed considering her character is a literal sniper and I’m fine with that tbh, she’s just a necessary evil that I truly don’t really mind
i would stop playing ow if they removed her insta-kill headshot ability tbh, but i know i'm in the minority here and understand why people hate it (especially people who never play her, like a lot of support mains)
just make her easier to see, and her grapple harder to use
For example a sniper laser, and her grapple shorter range and longer cooldown
imo thats the best way to fix her, make her fight for her positioning, to not be able to escape or reposition as easy as she can
@@guyfoxyinc.8042she alr has bullet tracers
Why not just give everyone a one shot combo? Lol
That’s one way of doing things lol
To answer your question, Widow having her one shot ability requires timing, coordination, and learning visual cues, but up close is when she not so threatening.
The issue comes when certain heroes can just spam abilities around no matter the distance to achieve the same results and with very little effort.
As someone who hates other hitscan more than Widow (*cough* Ashe *cough*), I do think people forget the reason why Widow has such a strong weapon is cuz her entire kit relies on her gun to do damage. She has the weakest ability in OW2 (Widows mine is literally useless) and her mobility tool only enables her movement.
I think Widow one shotting is fine, its just that her charge rate needs nerfed. I also think it should only apply a 3x modifier on max charge. Tbh, hitscans in general (except Sojourn and 76) have too fast of fire rates.
I’ve mentioned this multiple times reworked/nerfed widow already exists it’s called Ashe 🤦🏾♂️ the only way widow could be nerfed if all damage and healing is nerfed so the damage widow does is worth picking her over other DPS and still be impactful due to reduced healing and damage of other roles
Nerfing her max damage to 200 which is a 33% decrease that decrease should apply to all roles damage and healing meaning there will be no one shots
One shot must stay. That's the whole point of a heavy sniper. Many other heroes should have their one shot abilities back and OW must get back to its 6v6 roots. We're coming to the point where OW is being dumbed down and hero identities are stripped away just to force players into the center of a teamfight. Sombra's previous rework is a good example. She was turned from a niche hero with very different and interesting play style into Tracer 2.0, way easier and more effective, played by everyone and hated by everyone. Now they reworked her again into a worse version of Soldier 76. Widow must remain untouched. Players are going to complain no matter what and they'll just switch to bitching about the next hero.
I don’t agree that all the old one shots should come back (at least not in 5v5, 6v6 I don’t know) but I do agree that widow should keep her one shot, mostly because the entire hero would lose her identity and be useless without it
F widow
Widow is a necessary evil in a fps. It forces the player to learn to play around sightlines.
The best counter to widow is literally have your tank peek her, ping her and play around that.
The entire purpose of widow is to shut down fights before they start, seeing as she can’t take a close ranged fight.
If you only want to brawl then ow2 is perfect for you and I understand why you hate widow
If the best counter to something is something completly out of your controll that means it's bad also what about ashe or hanzo? They teach the same thing without being as annoying or consistant
@@engineergaming3830First of all: How is proper positioning and team work out of your control? You just proved my point that the game is not only getting dumbed down but that it's going into the brawl individual hubris space.
Both Hanzo and Ashe have had a long history of being hated characters. Want to know why? Because people who can't aim nor have the basic concept of playing around cover whine that they are OP while they jump around out in the open like freaking target practice dummies.
Ask any decently ranked OW1 player and they will tell you why you shouldn't jump when facing a widow
@@thebearded4427 this game just isn't the same anymore also what Ur team does is out of Ur control if they don't respect her you lose which doesn't happen with any other hero and yeah sure they hated hanzo and ashe but they fixed their issues like scatter Arrow and 1shot with dmg boost Widow is basically the only hero they are scared of fixing and why did u suddently talk about jumping? Isn't that common knowledge at this point
Can't wait to play marvel rivals instead of this shitty game
The guy who’s stupidity brought you “sombra but she’s even worse than base Lifeweaver” explains why it’s bad game design for players to have to respect sight lines.
No, not really, but one shoting mobile squishies is much better than what she can do right now, *cough cough* 4 body shots on 250 targets with almost 0 mobility
Snipers: *exist in any FPS*
OW Players: *crying* NERF WIDOW!1!1!1!
Nobody likes snipers in any game lol?? They’re almost always just super annoying and boring to fight
Overwatch doesn't play like most FPS.
@@klinxium8627 I don't know if in an FPS you don't like people who are at a distance with a weapon designed to be tactical it's not my fault, skill issue
@@OakenTome but it's still an FPS
She’s easy to counter
16 minutes to say if someone's good with a character they do good if they aren't they wont? Play positioning, play things that can play around her. Things really aren't that hard, a character and their players shouldn't have to get nerfed because YOU cant figure yourself out.
Of course it should stay - if you were caught out in the open, either ignoring or challenging a widowmaker you couldn't contest because of distance, then you have made a severe lapse of judgement (same for if you "uu didn't know they have a widowmaker") and deserve to eat the bullet, regardless of 'aim', 'aim luck' or whatever
L take. 1 shor heroes are gay.
Sometimes you can't close the distance though
Widow is healthy for the game because she requires good positioning, aim, and gets easily hard countered by dive heroes. There are several heroes way more unhealthy than her.
Fair enough. I wouldn’t say she is healthy but it could be worse
Have you ever played a good widow? Cause her and healthy for the game should not be used is the same sentence.
Good positioning? Swear peopel just throw that term out onto any argument without any idea on how it really works.
a character whose only balancing factor is whether or not the player can click heads won't ever be good design in Overwatch. in this game almost every characters flat out have a weakness the player has to work with.
Reaper has bad range no matter how good you are
Winston will always do low dmg
Ana will always lack mobility
Is widow bad up close? well, if you miss your shot
is widow bad against, mobile heroes? well, if you miss your shot
can you get outsniped by other characters? well, if you miss your shot
You get to sit in the back UNCONTESTED exploiting people who are actually trying to play the OBJECTIVE BASED GAME as design. The second you're at any risk you just grapple away.
There's nothing "healthy" about deleting people unseen from the other side of the map because you can see a pixel. Zero engagement, Zero Risk, Zero Interfacing, but all reward. It's cheap.
Dude she always could 1 shot since overwatch 1 and its funny how y’all complain about this and not call of duty YALL JUST TRASH if u cant counter her its a skill issue
Bait
@ ifs facts its a skill issue