I'm sure it will be said a million times, but the actors for Drummer and Marco are very good friends, which makes their characters venom for each other so enjoyable
Burn Gorman came into this world with the perfect Resting Villain Face and his parents gave him the name to go along with it. Love to hate him, fantastic actor
@@StarkRG Funny thing is that I was first introduced to him as an absolute wet lettuce / pathos case in a Dickens adaptation. He gets typecast now, but he's actually a very versatile actor.
Welcome to the Marco era of the show. There will be more of that sexy narcissist for you to love to hate. Holden didn't kill Murty on principle. Just like Murtry doesn't have the right to dole out death sentences, neither does Holden. Lucky for Holden that he is the UN envoy so Murtry doesn't feel like he will get away with harming him directly, nor would it help him get to his target, Lucia.
Hi 😊 Murtry and crew are there representing a corporation that has been given planet-rights by Earth/UN. From the corporation’s perspective, the Belters are squatters on their land. They don’t care about “first there claims”. Murtry, as head of their security - and because he’s angry about almost being killed - has positioned himself as judge and jury. Also, the corporation has given him a percentage profits gained from mining the planet… so you can see his motivation to get rid of the Belters
@@MattNolanCustom He bluntly said it was his purpose in the scene that introduced him, so it’s not spoiling anything (though it’s easy to miss since you don’t have the context to know how the conversation matters yet). His conversation on the landing shuttle is about screwing over a group of belters on a mineral find in the past giving them a tiny portion of the value, in part doing so by offering them fuel/supplies they needed as part of the payoff to leave.
@@RocketSurgn_ Murtry does not say whether or not he has a percentage deal regarding Ilus in his first scene. He says that they offered squatting belters a percentage in order to leave in a previous incident. I think you may be retrospectively adding context we didn't actually hear at that point
@@MattNolanCustom Oh! I think when I first saw the comment it was maybe collapsed and I didn’t notice it/catch the percentage part when I replied. I was only talking about the more general parts about corp greed and his willingness to roll over belters. Totally right then.
A comment about Mars: It was having near 100% employment rate until the ring gates opened. Now many scientists have no need to eke out a life on Mars, when they could just travel to a habitable new world where they could live on the surface. No need for terraforming. So hundreds of people are leaving Mars and its economy is collapsing. That's why there are so many who are unemployed on Mars. Not because they were focusing on the wrong things as a society, but because the state of politics has changed radically.
Bobbie is at absolute rock bottom. She is viewed as a traitor, her team was killed and she was betrayed by the higher-ups in the military, she hates being a burden on her brother's family, is failed by veteran care, she finds that the police are corrupt, she finds that her employer is corrupt, and now she's been arrested. At heart, she still believes in the dream of Mars but just barely and, as it crumbles around her, she's got nowhere else to go. Crime or prison.
Mars _was_ all about terraforming before, and they did need a strong military force as well to protect themselves against Earth. We see in the earlier seasons how everything seems to be running quite well there, with everyone really buying into this beautiful dream about the green planet, but also how 'necessary sacrifice' can turn quite ugly, like what happened with Bobbie's old team. I'd say a comparison with the Soviet Union is actually uncharitable, at least if we compare it with Mars pre-ring gates, because at least Martians really believed in something. The ring gates did change everything though, because you're right, why would anyone spend their life doing something that isn't guaranteed to work, and even if it does, only their grandchildren will see the results, if there are countless ready-made planets out there ripe for the taking. Now this specific event where economy and society built on something that suddenly became obsolete crumbles pretty much overnight is a good parallel with what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union. Many smaller towns were dependant on military industry and had maybe one or two factories at best that were 100% geared towards weapons race. Once the Cold War was over, they were no longer needed, and the local communities had nothing to rely on. Although it's not necessarily USSR-specific: once Thatcher's government started closing mines and moving the economy towards being service-based large areas in the north of UK began their slow slide into hopelessness and poverty pretty much the same way, very similar to what Mars becomes like in this season of the show.
Mars starts out like the USA, breaking free of UK colonial rule and eventually ending up very militaristic. Then, the world around it changes and it falls like the USSR.
What I think is interesting about Murtry is that if this had been a standard action movie, he would have been the good guy, the violent dude showing no mercy and getting revenge. Maybe showing how those guys are just heroes by circumstance. With regards to Holden's actions in this episode, I see it as Holden holding back (see what I did there :P), still trying play by the rules, and giving warnings, instead of falling to Murtry's level. He does after all have no authority to interfere or arrest anyone. Also, good for you for seeing through Marco's BS : )
Holden can take all the authority he needs; he is the personal envoy of the Queen of Earth, ultimately answerable to nobody but her, and everyone knows it.
@@kirkdarling4120 That doesn't mean Holden sees it that way, and I don't believe for a second that Holden thinks of Avasarala as a queen. He wasn't sent there to oversee or negotiate anything, just to check out the protomolecule.
@@bajasmancer Holden knows that space is "kill or be killed." He's been out there long enough, and he's done some of the killing himself. He knows Murtry has killed Belters in cold blood and would do it again. He knows Murtry could have killed Naomi. He made a mistake no taking Murtry into custody.
@@kirkdarling4120 Holden is an idealist. He has only killed before when absolutely forced to. He's had his waver towards taking liberties with due process (heading off to shoot Cortazar on Tycho) and come back from that, with Naomi's help. He's not going there again.
I think Ty Franck (one half of James Corey) once said that Holden was inspired in part by the idea of a paladin in the RPG party who is always following what is right and good, and sometimes frustrating the other members of the party. He's really trying to follow the rules of civilization, here.
I absolutely do hate Inaros but... as an indigenous person when he said "after all their broken promises what makes you think they will honor them now" resonated so hard with me. I know it's a toxic way of thinking but after generations of lies it really is almost impossible to trust.
Just stopping by to say your reactions and commentary are always so on point. 👏🏻 🍉🍉🍉 This is a great episode and Holden and his paladin ways can be SO freaking annoying but i love him still haha
Meg, I just wanted to pop in to say I really have loved your Expanse reactions but I usually don't watch people watch Season 4 (I just don't enjoy it, some do, YMMV, nothing personal). I will definitely be back for S5 and 6 if/when you get there. Also, there wasn't an obvious link from your other YTube channel to here do I had to dig it out through general search. Not sure if intentional.
I get that you don't like Marco, but everything he said was true, and his predictions were likely true as well. Aversarala is a better SG, but she hasn't really changed the relationship between the Belt and the rest of the system. She sent RCE to Ilus, so they could claim the resources for themselves. Much like the so-called third world today, they are rich in resources, but those resources are extracted by wealthier nations, and the benefits are not shared. Naomi is proof that even if the Inners allow them through the ring - and we've seen Belter ships destroyed rather than allowing that, on Aversarala's watch - many Belters can't settle on the new worlds. There is essentially infinite wealth out there, but the Belters won't see it, just as the wealth of Earth now isn't shared, and just as the wealth of the Solar system hasn't been shared in seasons up until now. Marco is, of course, a total narcissist as you've correctly pointed out, but he's identified real issues. The problem is the follow up "and so you should listen to me". Do you still think Dawes was wrong?
Yeah, new SG doesn't mean crap tbh, from the Earther perspective it might (which is generic viewer perspective), or Fred Jonson, but should oppressed people rejoice because "it is new times, let's sing happily together, it is new SG", and what after old lady dies, another "new SG"? Should they rely on the good will of the oppressor to be nice? Especially when they are forced to hunt their own for things that wouldn't be crimes like a year ago. This whole "new world" seems just like an "old one", somehow Earth decides, specifically new SG btw, where Belters can or cannot go, can or cannot pass the rings, colonize worlds. Those ships with civilian Belters that were blown up, those deaths, are specifically on Avasarala. Marco is a narcissist and piece of work and terrorist, but he was not wrong in his speech to Belter faction leaders. I agree, that his solution and his hubris and narcissism are not to be followed, but the problem he has addressed is real.
Watching your reactions and commentary to this show is such a joy and it only gets better.
I'm sure it will be said a million times, but the actors for Drummer and Marco are very good friends, which makes their characters venom for each other so enjoyable
Burn Gorman came into this world with the perfect Resting Villain Face and his parents gave him the name to go along with it. Love to hate him, fantastic actor
Funny thing is that I was first introduced to him as a good guy in Torchwood.
@@StarkRG Funny thing is that I was first introduced to him as an absolute wet lettuce / pathos case in a Dickens adaptation. He gets typecast now, but he's actually a very versatile actor.
This guy annihilates every role I've seen him in, fits in perfect with this cast and I thought he was a fantastic villain.
Welcome to the Marco era of the show. There will be more of that sexy narcissist for you to love to hate.
Holden didn't kill Murty on principle. Just like Murtry doesn't have the right to dole out death sentences, neither does Holden. Lucky for Holden that he is the UN envoy so Murtry doesn't feel like he will get away with harming him directly, nor would it help him get to his target, Lucia.
Hi 😊 Murtry and crew are there representing a corporation that has been given planet-rights by Earth/UN. From the corporation’s perspective, the Belters are squatters on their land. They don’t care about “first there claims”. Murtry, as head of their security - and because he’s angry about almost being killed - has positioned himself as judge and jury. Also, the corporation has given him a percentage profits gained from mining the planet… so you can see his motivation to get rid of the Belters
WOOP, there it is. Thank you so much for telling me about the profits, suddenly everything makes sense lol.
@@MegMageReacts somewhat of a spoiler though, as Murtry will reveal that directly in good time.
@@MattNolanCustom He bluntly said it was his purpose in the scene that introduced him, so it’s not spoiling anything (though it’s easy to miss since you don’t have the context to know how the conversation matters yet). His conversation on the landing shuttle is about screwing over a group of belters on a mineral find in the past giving them a tiny portion of the value, in part doing so by offering them fuel/supplies they needed as part of the payoff to leave.
@@RocketSurgn_ Murtry does not say whether or not he has a percentage deal regarding Ilus in his first scene. He says that they offered squatting belters a percentage in order to leave in a previous incident. I think you may be retrospectively adding context we didn't actually hear at that point
@@MattNolanCustom Oh! I think when I first saw the comment it was maybe collapsed and I didn’t notice it/catch the percentage part when I replied. I was only talking about the more general parts about corp greed and his willingness to roll over belters. Totally right then.
This is going to be another great Expanse reaction from
MegMage today and have a fantastic day Meg.🐶📺📺🐶
A comment about Mars: It was having near 100% employment rate until the ring gates opened. Now many scientists have no need to eke out a life on Mars, when they could just travel to a habitable new world where they could live on the surface. No need for terraforming. So hundreds of people are leaving Mars and its economy is collapsing. That's why there are so many who are unemployed on Mars. Not because they were focusing on the wrong things as a society, but because the state of politics has changed radically.
9:04 Totally! Ty Franck regularly references the Soviet Union when he talks this part of the story.
Bobbie is at absolute rock bottom. She is viewed as a traitor, her team was killed and she was betrayed by the higher-ups in the military, she hates being a burden on her brother's family, is failed by veteran care, she finds that the police are corrupt, she finds that her employer is corrupt, and now she's been arrested. At heart, she still believes in the dream of Mars but just barely and, as it crumbles around her, she's got nowhere else to go. Crime or prison.
Mars _was_ all about terraforming before, and they did need a strong military force as well to protect themselves against Earth. We see in the earlier seasons how everything seems to be running quite well there, with everyone really buying into this beautiful dream about the green planet, but also how 'necessary sacrifice' can turn quite ugly, like what happened with Bobbie's old team. I'd say a comparison with the Soviet Union is actually uncharitable, at least if we compare it with Mars pre-ring gates, because at least Martians really believed in something.
The ring gates did change everything though, because you're right, why would anyone spend their life doing something that isn't guaranteed to work, and even if it does, only their grandchildren will see the results, if there are countless ready-made planets out there ripe for the taking. Now this specific event where economy and society built on something that suddenly became obsolete crumbles pretty much overnight is a good parallel with what happened after the fall of the Soviet Union. Many smaller towns were dependant on military industry and had maybe one or two factories at best that were 100% geared towards weapons race. Once the Cold War was over, they were no longer needed, and the local communities had nothing to rely on. Although it's not necessarily USSR-specific: once Thatcher's government started closing mines and moving the economy towards being service-based large areas in the north of UK began their slow slide into hopelessness and poverty pretty much the same way, very similar to what Mars becomes like in this season of the show.
Mars starts out like the USA, breaking free of UK colonial rule and eventually ending up very militaristic. Then, the world around it changes and it falls like the USSR.
What I think is interesting about Murtry is that if this had been a standard action movie, he would have been the good guy, the violent dude showing no mercy and getting revenge. Maybe showing how those guys are just heroes by circumstance.
With regards to Holden's actions in this episode, I see it as Holden holding back (see what I did there :P), still trying play by the rules, and giving warnings, instead of falling to Murtry's level. He does after all have no authority to interfere or arrest anyone.
Also, good for you for seeing through Marco's BS : )
Holden can take all the authority he needs; he is the personal envoy of the Queen of Earth, ultimately answerable to nobody but her, and everyone knows it.
@@kirkdarling4120 That doesn't mean Holden sees it that way, and I don't believe for a second that Holden thinks of Avasarala as a queen. He wasn't sent there to oversee or negotiate anything, just to check out the protomolecule.
@@bajasmancer Holden knows that space is "kill or be killed." He's been out there long enough, and he's done some of the killing himself. He knows Murtry has killed Belters in cold blood and would do it again. He knows Murtry could have killed Naomi. He made a mistake no taking Murtry into custody.
@@kirkdarling4120 yea, and I gave a possible explaination for why he could have made such a mistake...
@@kirkdarling4120 Holden is an idealist. He has only killed before when absolutely forced to. He's had his waver towards taking liberties with due process (heading off to shoot Cortazar on Tycho) and come back from that, with Naomi's help. He's not going there again.
I think Ty Franck (one half of James Corey) once said that Holden was inspired in part by the idea of a paladin in the RPG party who is always following what is right and good, and sometimes frustrating the other members of the party. He's really trying to follow the rules of civilization, here.
The thematic connections you make from the show to the real world are immaculate. I agree 100% with you 💯🔥❤️l
Nice reaction, looking forward to the next one!
Hi Meg hope you are having an great and awesome day ❤
I absolutely do hate Inaros but... as an indigenous person when he said "after all their broken promises what makes you think they will honor them now" resonated so hard with me.
I know it's a toxic way of thinking but after generations of lies it really is almost impossible to trust.
Just stopping by to say your reactions and commentary are always so on point. 👏🏻
🍉🍉🍉
This is a great episode and Holden and his paladin ways can be SO freaking annoying but i love him still haha
Meg, I just wanted to pop in to say I really have loved your Expanse reactions but I usually don't watch people watch Season 4 (I just don't enjoy it, some do, YMMV, nothing personal). I will definitely be back for S5 and 6 if/when you get there.
Also, there wasn't an obvious link from your other YTube channel to here do I had to dig it out through general search. Not sure if intentional.
Marco was right...
I get that you don't like Marco, but everything he said was true, and his predictions were likely true as well.
Aversarala is a better SG, but she hasn't really changed the relationship between the Belt and the rest of the system. She sent RCE to Ilus, so they could claim the resources for themselves.
Much like the so-called third world today, they are rich in resources, but those resources are extracted by wealthier nations, and the benefits are not shared.
Naomi is proof that even if the Inners allow them through the ring - and we've seen Belter ships destroyed rather than allowing that, on Aversarala's watch - many Belters can't settle on the new worlds.
There is essentially infinite wealth out there, but the Belters won't see it, just as the wealth of Earth now isn't shared, and just as the wealth of the Solar system hasn't been shared in seasons up until now.
Marco is, of course, a total narcissist as you've correctly pointed out, but he's identified real issues. The problem is the follow up "and so you should listen to me".
Do you still think Dawes was wrong?
Yeah, new SG doesn't mean crap tbh, from the Earther perspective it might (which is generic viewer perspective), or Fred Jonson, but should oppressed people rejoice because "it is new times, let's sing happily together, it is new SG", and what after old lady dies, another "new SG"? Should they rely on the good will of the oppressor to be nice? Especially when they are forced to hunt their own for things that wouldn't be crimes like a year ago. This whole "new world" seems just like an "old one", somehow Earth decides, specifically new SG btw, where Belters can or cannot go, can or cannot pass the rings, colonize worlds. Those ships with civilian Belters that were blown up, those deaths, are specifically on Avasarala.
Marco is a narcissist and piece of work and terrorist, but he was not wrong in his speech to Belter faction leaders. I agree, that his solution and his hubris and narcissism are not to be followed, but the problem he has addressed is real.
hi Meg