I did purchase this on the power of your video. Sorry, I don't have a machinist background, so at a distinct disadvantage from our friends with their ready stock of pin gages, apparently.
I like the tool but it seems a quality precision steel pin gage set would work just as well and have many more diameter options. (I see the convenience of having the gages stacked on one tool per caliber.)
Ive got a full set of mandrels In 1/2 Thou increments from 22 caliber to 416 caliber . These are fine if you dont have these.Mine are all Forster Mandrels except my .375 and .416 and trhose are from Brownells. Ive got every gadget he has except my trimmer is a Giraud
Pin gauge set I use is in .0005 increments, handy to pick up spring back inconsistencies which to be honest are rare these days given the uniformity of quality brass and repeatability of annealing.
It's a nice idea, but far too expensive for what is in effect 20 pin gauges. For a lower cost, I could buy a large pin gauge set covering a far wider range, in smaller increments and with higher (certified) accuracy.
25 pin gages. You’ll find the kit and individual gages at a lower price at some of our wholesale customers. Diameters are ground with a +/- .00015 tolerance 😀
They should make a chamfered version that goes in your press. Then you could set neck tension where you want it. I don’t see the point in verifying my Wilson mandrels when I adjust tension anyway. It is what it is.
I love your videos. Neck tension has always been on my mind as I notice - when I'm reloading - that sometimes bullets get seated easily, others fit a bit more tight and I wonder what the problem is. I like the product but not sure what it will solve my problem, though, as it all depends on the sizing and expander die. Am I right, or wong? So...here are my questions: 1. If I am using the same die, should I expect to have consistency in my neck tension? What affects neck tension? (e.g. brass thickness?) 2. OK, so I have a case where the gauge fits loosely - how do I solve the issue? Do I crimp the case before seating? 3. On the other hand, if the gauge fits too tight - should I replace the die set? 4. Should this gauge have better use if you want to adapt the case to a particular bullet width? Thank a bunch!!
Neck wall thickness uniformity (or lack there of) will do that. Perhaps a little neck turning will help consistency in bullet tension. This will uniform start pressures--very advantageous to accuracy. What brass are you using?
@@yellowjacket548 For my 308 I use Lapua which have proven consistent though I have noticed different tolerances in different batches. I had most issues with brands like S&B, Fiocchi and PPU, even though they were match grade brass.
@Jon Mcauleff that's very good brass. You are correct that you can still find some uniformity issues between lots, and even within lots for that matter. This is where the use of some special tools can help diagnose these issues. Fun, fun! 😁
I think this is a great idea and very easy and quick. I am a machinist and can see how this type of tool would be useful in many alternative applications. But, the price is not on par with the value this brings to my particular reloading bench. It may be more palatable if they could be purchased as singles rather than a set. For now, I will have to stick with my pin gauges and deal with the extra seconds of handling time.
Since I'm just graduation over from my pistol to rifle reloading I'm trying to watch my budget and no go overboard with a whole plethora of goodies. I only shoot medium range target stuff so super precision is not in my crosshairs at the moment. But when I get better I know where one of my primary 411 sources will be.
You dont need this to shoot precision. This is beyond precision for what most are even worried about. Bench rest shooters dont use this stuff, not the ones I have seen. They just necksize their brass, then seat a bullet. They use a arbor press for that, so they feel if the NS is bad and then use that bullet for a sigher. But for anyone not bench rest shooting (sub 6mm groups at 100 meters) i doubt a "sub moa" gun will notice anything. We are not talking about 1" flyers etc.
@@kevinpitts17 yikes. I just looked up a handle that holds two pin gauges for go/nogo, $13 and a 0.251-0.500 gauge pin set is $165. Even that's expensive so I think I'm going to look for a used set missing pins I don't need or just buy individually although that is a rip-off compared to sets...
I've been looking forward to these since shot show, until I just went over and looked at the price. $300!? No thanks, I'll just use the old pin gauges. $300? SMH. Although, they're are all back ordered, so you couldn't buy one if you wanted to
Dude, I thought you were joking with that price! Then, I looked it up. Yeah, no. Absolutely not. They should sell them individually for $25 +/-, not as a set.
I am struggling to imagine a practical use for these tools. If you have a tight neck chamber you would presumably use a neck expansion mandrel of proper bullet diameter to expand the case neck to simulate a seated bullet. You would then turn the neck to the desired outside diameter and then use the appropriate sized bushing in your neck sizer die to size the neck back down to give the desired tension or pull. Where does this tool fit in? If you are shooting a standard chamber in your rifle just buy quality reloading dies and have at it.
mr hillbilly,,,,if you have a tight neck chamber, you are on the ' road less traveled '.you have assumed the idiosyncrasies involved . do have a nice day .🙃
I see a few things wrong with these. First, they probably will not work with some cartridges. I'm betting they would bottom out on a 6PPC, 6 BR or 30BR. Maybe even 6.5x47. Second is the price. $58 plus shipping. You can buy a few pin gauges from Amazon that are within .0002 for $5 each. Nice idea but I'll bet they discontinue these for lack of sales.
It’s certainly a niched product. They were in fact designed to have clearance for the shorter cartridges you mentioned and will not bottom out. The length of a given diameter and the space between diameters allows to check for consistent diameter throughout the neck (ie donut at the neck shoulder junction).
@@vincealber9162 I stand corrected. I still don't think they will sell though based on price point. $58 each or $300 for the set. Pin gauges are a lot cheaper and are more versatile. I bought the three I use for .243 and paid less than $15 to my door.
At this points companies will make anything to measure anything about anything related to their cartridges and reloaders will buy it. It's a fucking gold mine out there, money just waiting to be raked in. I would like to see a device that measures actual in chamber pressure, and burn rate of specific granules of gunpowder being burned in every shot. lol
How would you use this tool to set neck tension? The correct way is to seat a bullet in a case, measure the outside diameter of the brass (neck) where the bullet is seated and then subtract however many thousandths in order to get that much neck tension. IE if my Lapua .308 brass with a seated bullet has an outside neck diameter of .339" and I want .002" worth of neck tension, I would buy a .337" bushing or have a full-length die honed to .337". If you want to know what your mandrel is going to expand the inside of the case to all you have to do is either measure the mandrel or take the company's word that the measurement is correct. Why would anyone want this tool?
LOL, keep thinking that buddy. In order to set neck tension, YOU MUST KNOW THE OUTSIDE DIAMETER of your brass as that is what you are controlling with bushings. The goal is to move the brass as little as possible to maximize its lifespan. Knowing the inside diameter of your case is pointless--the number means nothing and you do nothing with that info. Please explain to me how you would know which bushing to buy if you only know the inside diameter of your brass.
@@yellowjacket548 Ummmm......no. You use the mandrel to set a consistent neck tension on each piece of brass. Neck wall thickness isn't relevant when using a mandrel. It doesn't matter if I'm using no turn brass or heavily turned brass, the mandrel is still setting the same tension.
@Lexus Owner uuum...yes. The mandrel itself isn't the be all-end all. Use of the mandrel is a secondary step after sizing the OD of the neck with either the factory spec die or a bushing. If the neck started out thin in the first place, you aren't doing yourself any favors with the use of the mandrel. You may never reach your desired tension of .002 or whatever your goal is. This is where an undersized bushing will help you achieve your goal. Everything has to match in terms of size in order to achieve your goal.
Hellaciously overpriced. $300!!! Do they actually want to sell any?? I can get a set of pin gauges which run 0.060" - 0.500", ZZ class, -0.0002" +0.0000 (440 total pin gauges) for just under $240 right now. I was thinking more like maybe $15-20 per caliber range... maybe $25 at the most. I would have been more than happy to get one for my .264 and .284 precision ammo... but, yeah, hell no.
I did purchase this on the power of your video. Sorry, I don't have a machinist background, so at a distinct disadvantage from our friends with their ready stock of pin gages, apparently.
I like the tool but it seems a quality precision steel pin gage set would work just as well and have many more diameter options. (I see the convenience of having the gages stacked on one tool per caliber.)
Good point. I have a pin gauge set and never considered using it to check neck tension.
@@seafox197cc That's all I ever use and dedicated pins are not all that costly.
Ive got a full set of mandrels In 1/2 Thou increments from 22 caliber to 416 caliber . These are fine if you dont have these.Mine are all Forster Mandrels except my .375 and .416 and trhose are from Brownells. Ive got every gadget he has except my trimmer is a Giraud
I've had the Ballistic Tool neck tension and primer pocket gauges for many years. They are double ended, two calibers per gauge and much smaller.
$300 seems a bit steep.
Maybe snap-on made it for them?🙃
Pin gauge set I use is in .0005 increments, handy to pick up spring back inconsistencies which to be honest are rare these days given the uniformity of quality brass and repeatability of annealing.
It's a nice idea, but far too expensive for what is in effect 20 pin gauges.
For a lower cost, I could buy a large pin gauge set covering a far wider range, in smaller increments and with higher (certified) accuracy.
25 pin gages. You’ll find the kit and individual gages at a lower price at some of our wholesale customers. Diameters are ground with a +/- .00015 tolerance 😀
A must, have to buy these gauge. Thank you.
They should make a chamfered version that goes in your press. Then you could set neck tension where you want it. I don’t see the point in verifying my Wilson mandrels when I adjust tension anyway. It is what it is.
I just got one for 308. Haven't used it yet, I'm still learning about neck sizeing and tension.
Could come in handy. Think most of the price is for the convenience factor
I love your videos. Neck tension has always been on my mind as I notice - when I'm reloading - that sometimes bullets get seated easily, others fit a bit more tight and I wonder what the problem is. I like the product but not sure what it will solve my problem, though, as it all depends on the sizing and expander die. Am I right, or wong? So...here are my questions:
1. If I am using the same die, should I expect to have consistency in my neck tension? What affects neck tension? (e.g. brass thickness?)
2. OK, so I have a case where the gauge fits loosely - how do I solve the issue? Do I crimp the case before seating?
3. On the other hand, if the gauge fits too tight - should I replace the die set?
4. Should this gauge have better use if you want to adapt the case to a particular bullet width?
Thank a bunch!!
Neck wall thickness uniformity (or lack there of) will do that. Perhaps a little neck turning will help consistency in bullet tension. This will uniform start pressures--very advantageous to accuracy. What brass are you using?
@@yellowjacket548 For my 308 I use Lapua which have proven consistent though I have noticed different tolerances in different batches. I had most issues with brands like S&B, Fiocchi and PPU, even though they were match grade brass.
@Jon Mcauleff that's very good brass. You are correct that you can still find some uniformity issues between lots, and even within lots for that matter. This is where the use of some special tools can help diagnose these issues. Fun, fun! 😁
Can you please post on rumble? Thank you
I think this is a great idea and very easy and quick. I am a machinist and can see how this type of tool would be useful in many alternative applications. But, the price is not on par with the value this brings to my particular reloading bench. It may be more palatable if they could be purchased as singles rather than a set. For now, I will have to stick with my pin gauges and deal with the extra seconds of handling time.
Hi Josh, these are sold as a kit as well as individually. You will find better pricing at some of our wholesalers due to their quantity discount.
@@vincealber9162 thanks for letting me know about that. I'm going to pick one up to try out on my most commonly loaded caliber.
Since I'm just graduation over from my pistol to rifle reloading I'm trying to watch my budget and no go overboard with a whole plethora of goodies. I only shoot medium range target stuff so super precision is not in my crosshairs at the moment. But when I get better I know where one of my primary 411 sources will be.
You dont need this to shoot precision. This is beyond precision for what most are even worried about.
Bench rest shooters dont use this stuff, not the ones I have seen. They just necksize their brass, then seat a bullet. They use a arbor press for that, so they feel if the NS is bad and then use that bullet for a sigher. But for anyone not bench rest shooting (sub 6mm groups at 100 meters) i doubt a "sub moa" gun will notice anything. We are not talking about 1" flyers etc.
It would be nice if you mentioned MSRP and a few stocking retailers.
Googled it myself to know complete kit on forster is 300
$300 at Forster but they're back ordered. Am I the only one that thinks that price is insane for this?
@@kevinpitts17 yikes.
I just looked up a handle that holds two pin gauges for go/nogo, $13 and a 0.251-0.500 gauge pin set is $165. Even that's expensive so I think I'm going to look for a used set missing pins I don't need or just buy individually although that is a rip-off compared to sets...
@@joequixotic3039 yeah I was interested then saw there was no 45 cal and my pet project at the moment is a 450 bushmaster
Great Report .
Thank You .
That seems really handy
Take bronze brush and steel wool , polish case neck ,
What expander mandrel did you use?
Maybe I missed it, how is it Travis joined your channel?
Very cool, but I think there are other options that don’t cost $300 that work just as well. Great video though.
If you know a machinist it can be easily made
Hay Gavin do you have plans on building a 284 win. just the big thing in F-class ?
Hopefully they come out with a 338 gauges
Got it on my list thanks
Does Forster plan to make this product for 38 caliber and higher?
So in other words these gage are only a quality check of your resizing dies
I've been looking forward to these since shot show, until I just went over and looked at the price. $300!? No thanks, I'll just use the old pin gauges. $300? SMH. Although, they're are all back ordered, so you couldn't buy one if you wanted to
If the are really $300 they are off there rockers! That coming from a Forster fanboy
Dude, I thought you were joking with that price! Then, I looked it up. Yeah, no. Absolutely not. They should sell them individually for $25 +/-, not as a set.
These are sold as a kit as well as individually. You’ll find better pricing and availability through one of our wholesalers.
Assuming that the innermost section cannot be used on shorter cases like br. Anyone that can confirm this?
Why do you use the Wilson die
Nice video once again bro
I am struggling to imagine a practical use for these tools. If you have a tight neck chamber you would presumably use a neck expansion mandrel of proper bullet diameter to expand the case neck to simulate a seated bullet. You would then turn the neck to the desired outside diameter and then use the appropriate sized bushing in your neck sizer die to size the neck back down to give the desired tension or pull. Where does this tool fit in? If you are shooting a standard chamber in your rifle just buy quality reloading dies and have at it.
mr hillbilly,,,,if you have a tight neck chamber, you are on the ' road less traveled '.you have assumed the idiosyncrasies involved . do have a nice day .🙃
How does one finds out what the measurement should be? Say like for 308 or 30-06
That is up to you and your preference baised apon you load development needs
You would have to work it out with a pencil as a constipated mathematician would.
I see a few things wrong with these. First, they probably will not work with some cartridges. I'm betting they would bottom out on a 6PPC, 6 BR or 30BR. Maybe even 6.5x47. Second is the price. $58 plus shipping. You can buy a few pin gauges from Amazon that are within .0002 for $5 each. Nice idea but I'll bet they discontinue these for lack of sales.
It’s certainly a niched product. They were in fact designed to have clearance for the shorter cartridges you mentioned and will not bottom out. The length of a given diameter and the space between diameters allows to check for consistent diameter throughout the neck (ie donut at the neck shoulder junction).
@@vincealber9162 I stand corrected. I still don't think they will sell though based on price point. $58 each or $300 for the set. Pin gauges are a lot cheaper and are more versatile. I bought the three I use for .243 and paid less than $15 to my door.
Holy crap, the set is $300. Guess I'll have to stick to my Ballistic Tools gauges.
At this points companies will make anything to measure anything about anything related to their cartridges and reloaders will buy it.
It's a fucking gold mine out there, money just waiting to be raked in.
I would like to see a device that measures actual in chamber pressure, and burn rate of specific granules of gunpowder being burned in every shot. lol
Efficient concept for the Benchrest/F-Class ultra precision competitors that need the ultra consistency and use an Amp Annealer
How would you use this tool to set neck tension? The correct way is to seat a bullet in a case, measure the outside diameter of the brass (neck) where the bullet is seated and then subtract however many thousandths in order to get that much neck tension. IE if my Lapua .308 brass with a seated bullet has an outside neck diameter of .339" and I want .002" worth of neck tension, I would buy a .337" bushing or have a full-length die honed to .337". If you want to know what your mandrel is going to expand the inside of the case to all you have to do is either measure the mandrel or take the company's word that the measurement is correct. Why would anyone want this tool?
Inner diameter is just outside-thickness with less steps. This is easier for those inclined. Remember, they need to sell stuff to not bankrupt
You can't rely on the measurement size of the mandrel alone. Brass springs back. Neck wall thickness is an important consideration as well.
LOL, keep thinking that buddy. In order to set neck tension, YOU MUST KNOW THE OUTSIDE DIAMETER of your brass as that is what you are controlling with bushings. The goal is to move the brass as little as possible to maximize its lifespan. Knowing the inside diameter of your case is pointless--the number means nothing and you do nothing with that info. Please explain to me how you would know which bushing to buy if you only know the inside diameter of your brass.
@@yellowjacket548 Ummmm......no. You use the mandrel to set a consistent neck tension on each piece of brass. Neck wall thickness isn't relevant when using a mandrel. It doesn't matter if I'm using no turn brass or heavily turned brass, the mandrel is still setting the same tension.
@Lexus Owner
uuum...yes. The mandrel itself isn't the be all-end all. Use of the mandrel is a secondary step after sizing the OD of the neck with either the factory spec die or a bushing. If the neck started out thin in the first place, you aren't doing yourself any favors with the use of the mandrel. You may never reach your desired tension of .002 or whatever your goal is. This is where an undersized bushing will help you achieve your goal. Everything has to match in terms of size in order to achieve your goal.
Nice idea but WAY overpriced. Pin gages best way to go if it’s something you think you need.
Coal
👍👍👍👍
This is the most useless thing ever, you do FL sizing, then run an expander mandrel through every case, problem solved, money saved, thank me later.
Or you could just use calipers and not need to buy another gimmick tool.
Looks like a little overpriced. No?
Hellaciously overpriced. $300!!! Do they actually want to sell any?? I can get a set of pin gauges which run 0.060" - 0.500", ZZ class, -0.0002" +0.0000 (440 total pin gauges) for just under $240 right now. I was thinking more like maybe $15-20 per caliber range... maybe $25 at the most. I would have been more than happy to get one for my .264 and .284 precision ammo... but, yeah, hell no.
First