"Doesn't matter if synagogues are targeted with firebombings, because they were expensive synagogue" "The human species is doing great as a whole, lots of intermarrying, clearly there's no racism anywhere of any type" How can someone be so far gone?
Being a red mao communist from birth with two equally mental parents who think the USSR was great with no flaws will lead to you having mental conclusions.
@@Michael-kp4bdthe most common one I've heard is "Kapo" in reference to the Jewish functionaries of nazi concentration camps and ghettos, but that term may be a little loaded for people to be comfortable using casually.
@@pan-semitistcommunist4181 asajew is one i've heard used, kinda to describe someone's who everybody's token jew friend. also somewhat akin to the ''as a black man'' meme
yeah, cuz he knows what he is talking about unlike libs like Loner and Destiny who are basically apologists for Israel. Destiny was supposed to debate Finkelstein and then he didnt show up lmao, cause he would get decimated.
Yes cuz he knows what he is talking about unlike Loner or Destiny. Destiny was supposed to debate Finkelstein and then he didnt show up 😂😂😂 cuz he wouldnt stand a chance.
@@josiah918ify everything he said here is correct. So yes. Loner and his audience are a bit pathetic and not that smart so it might be hard for you to understand. Its okay.. i get it
@@sheriefelsayad5578 So the kind of logic of constructing justifications for racial and religious hatred of entire groups can be applied to other minorities across various European countries?!? You would be fine with that as well?!? As long as you don’t come crying when similar “logical justification” are applied to other groups… for example Muslims… or people from the Middle East… or XYZ… Please be consistent in justifying racial hatred and religious intolerance!
not even kidding when I say that *that* viral clip of him talking to a jewish woman where he pulls out the "my family was in nazi contentration camps" card basically made his carreer and has given him most of the popularity he now has, I doubt that the vast majority of leftists on twitter even know of clips like the one here
I was there, it was at my university during the summer term in 2003. I'm old af... anyway that was during a very long and contentious Q&A and was the final event during "Palestine Week", and event where zionist students tore down banners and caused disruptions at the very idea that we were even saying "Palestine". The crowd was full of people who came to yell at Finklestein. It was a big mess and him saying his family history in the holocaust didn't seem out of place at all after him being accused of antisemitism repeatedly. He's an old crank, at the time he was the most respected and knowledgeable person on the topic in the English speaking world. He's gone a bit nuts since then, but frankly I'd argue that your career being destroyed by Dershowitz will do that to a person.
@@orlandodasilva2529 Dershowitz is a horrible person. No question about that. Not sure if Dershowitz being awful, which is rather typical for him, justifies some of the stuff Finkelstein got up to or said since. Who sides with Swiss banks who refuse to return property including heirlooms etc. to Holocaust survivors? Finkelstein goes even a step further, he accuses the Holocaust survivors who have been trying for decades to get family property and money back from those banks as the “true culprits” … those Jews are terrorising those poor Swiss bank? He is absolutely alone with that argument and reasoning regarding that “Swiss banks & Holocaust survivor” situation…
@@orlandodasilva2529it’s so true. Such a mixed bag of feelings while trying to show people he’s a crank while at the same time feeling for him being for all intents and purposes “cancelled” (with regard to his academic career for a while) by literally Alan fckjng Dershowitz 😅 I despise him for his dishonesty and whatever complexes he had going on, but yep… kinda see where it all went wrong
@@orlandodasilva2529 indeed. Almost made me laugh as I read your comment and then immediately looked again at this videos thumbnail which reads “No Excuses.”
There’s another clip a year or two ago I saw on an interview where he completely unleashes on Jews and the interviewers felt so awkward. Haven’t been able to find it though
Finkelstein was considered crazy by any reasonable standards before october 7th. Then suddenly for some reason he started appearing on every media channel as a sane voice regarding this conflict.
@@pedronabais1456 idk, I don't think it's really all that out there to say that our country's response to this who dealio hasn't been ideal. He's definitely nowhere remotely close to a "sane voice" though
22:50 Crucial question: what do they consider to be a civlian? A fair share of those supporting terrorist attacks, but disawoving attacks on civilians might simply not recognize most jews/ israelis as civilians, but essentially as all occupiers that to them are essentially combatants.
@@mimosa245 So collective punishment of entire group based on some collective guilt is okay depending on the group…?!? Either collective punishment of an entire group including children is not morally justified/ acceptable or it is morally justified/ acceptable. Either it is or it isn’t… Be consistent in terms of the morality of collective punishment.
The matter of Israeli civillians is only vague and complicated thanks to Israel's mandatory military service. Since the stated goal of Hamas on that day was to capture as many Military Personnel as possible for hostaged exchange to release as many Palestinians detained in Israeli prisons, and that everyone of age in Israel has served or is serving the military or is a reservist, a huge portion of Israel's population became targets.
@@nathanielmartins5930 That's bullshit. Many nations have mandatory military service. This doesnt makes the entire or half of the adult population combatants. Never. This isnt ambigious. How you try to white wash hamas that massacred a festival, put a child into an oven and raped women on corpses is truly sickening. Thats exactly what i was alluding to in my original comment.
Lonerbox literally made Finkelsteims argument for him here. The amount of hate crimes against muslims absolutely is tied to the amount of extremist islamist violence. Same was true for ethnic Germans or Japanese outside Germany/Japan during WW2, or any other conflict where people feel they are on a side. It is campist and essentialist, but hardly unique to hatred of jews. If a group purporting to speak for a larger group commits acts of violence, people will retaliate against people of the aforementioned larger group. Therefore, Israel's action directly contribute to anti-semitism in a massive way.
Lonerbox also ignores norm’s bigger point that criticism of the government is equated with racism but I will say he’s much more clear about this in recent interviews.
@@makeitrainnaren Since 2017 you can be arrested here in Germany for doing anti-semitic hate speech if you criticise the actions of Israel, which itself is an incredibly anti-semitic notion. That is like saying criticising the actions of Germany is anti-German, which is insane.
@@wfb.subtraktor311 Please provide evidence of arrests for criticism of the Israeli government or Israeli politicians or specific policies of the Israeli government - in Germany. What are the numbers of such arrests? Per year? How long are the prison sentences? Longest/ shortest/ average? Please provide data of overall numbers of arrests and concrete examples of incidents (including statements). Please do not include individuals who were part of or close to groups supporting the PFLP, Al Quds, Samidoun, etc. Didn’t Erdogan sue a German comedian?!? Have any Israeli politicians sued any Germans in a similar fashion?!? Please provide examples.
@@Lorenz1973 There is a declaration by the Bundestag from 2017 based on a 300 page paper by an independent Expert Komission called "Bericht des unabhängigen Expertenkreises Antisemitismus" which not only has several sub-chapters on how criticism of Israel is antisemitic but also specifically cites the statement "Israel's treatment of Palestinians is no different from the Nazi's treatment of Jews" as an example of said antisemitism, which is insane. If you publically proclaim these statements, they can arrest you for incitement of hatred. There is a case recently where a jewish woman with an Israeli passport held up a sign saying something like "as a jew and Israeli, ceasefire now" and police arrested her and took her away within 10 minutes. It isn't even just the state doing this, the majority of people are equally brainwashed. Recently we had so-called pro-democracy protests. People who showed solidarity with palestinians, for example by wearing palestinian flags, were beaten and spat on in several unrelated incidents. Antisemitism isn't the problem here, full-throated support of a fascist government engaging in genocide is. Edit: corrected the name of the report
I don’t think we “legitimize” attacks on civilians based on what they think of the terrorists we are fighting against. We are just less sad about collateral damage that supports the terrorist, than we are about collateral damage who were against the terrorists. Because both cases, the collateral damage is because of the terrorists. But if you get killed because of a group you support, then you are more responsible for your own misfortune, than if you were dragged into the situation by people you despise.
@@mgg7756 no matter how you twist it, civilians dying in a war is not a genocide. When german civilians died by the millions after people decided that the Nazis must be stamped out, that wasn’t genocide. The bombs stopped falling as soon as the Nazis surrendered. Hamas started a war of aggression, did not secure their civilians before starting the war, so if you are capable of thinking in 2-3 steps, you understand that the civilian deaths are their fault. The bombs will stop falling as soon as they surrender and come out of their tunnels and release the hostages.
"Choose any European country, if you're in France, would you rather be Jewish or Short, would you rather be Jewish or obese..." - Norman Finkelstein Feb 10th, 2015 January 9th, 2015 Paris France: "Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege" - 4 Jewish men killed by close friend of the perpetrator of the Charlie Hebdo attacks. Very poor taste, truly an embarrassing academic.
the guy said he had no sympathy for the slaughtered at CH, whom he compared to Nazis, and called the islamic fascists who did it “desperate and despairing men”.
In every interview Finkelstein has he says he's spent his adult life studying the Israel-Palestine conflict and done little else. When it comes to that conflict I believe he is a trust worthy scholar. Ask him about a lot of other stuff and it's a different story. Freeman Dyson was one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century but he was also a climate change denialist. Obviously that doesn't mean that you either have to not believe his physics or not believe in climate change.
Finkelstein describes Holocaust denier David Irving as a great historian. Irving has consistently lied and misrepresented “documents”, “statements”, etc. about the Holocaust - whitewashing high ranking Nazis from responsibility for the Holocaust, going as far as claiming that those Nazis didn’t know about the Holocaust or completely misrepresenting key elements of the Holocaust. Irving’s opinions and outright misinformation is contradicted by overwhelming evidence… And Finkelstein claims to be a Holocaust researcher. Finkelstein misrepresents facts and covers for those who do the same when it comes to what he claims to be the core area of his research - the Holocaust. He even covers for outright Holocaust deniers. So Finkelstein is more like a physicist who who thinks physics is black magic.
If he studied the Israel-Palestine conflict for his whole life and did nothing else then why does he lie about even the most basic facts? He stated for example that Israel never let a single person ever in nor out of Gaza, ever, under any circumstance, since Hamas got elected.
Please explain what a ‘neoliberal’ is because I seem to lack the requisite socialist orthodoxy and therefore I’ve become one. Obviously you’re the arbiter of such things.
@@Whatshisname346 it is the prevailing form of liberal politics beginning in the 1970s that removes any focus from corporate regulation, embraces the exploitation of foreign trade, regardless of the global implications and focuses on socially liberal concepts as the distraction from any real changes and critiques of capitalism that would create a better quality of life for everybody, as opposed to using half measures as a way to keep the working class divided.
The general consensus is that’s he’s THE expert. His revisionism has become a primary source… this stuff really needs to be exposed as bunk. I mean it’s nearly too late - a lot of good faith academics and commentators will likely be unable to divest their trust in him and snap out of buying into his lies
I completely quit watching Breaking Points for this reason. I'm fine watching people I radically disagree with, but this shows nothing but an unreasoned, irrational, wholly ideological agenda of the kind that put me off mainstream media in the first place. Seriously, seriously disappointed in alternative media at the moment.
"Jews are serving in the military, leading political and social movements, they're ministers in the government, things can only get better from here!" -Finklestein circa 1920, Germany.
To be fair, if you were to attempt to do something about the main vector of antisemitism (or homophobia) in western Europe, you would probably be accused of islamophobia, if you know what I mean.
The main foil for Finkelstein is for guys like Alan Dershowitz. It's. . .fine but not widely applicable and not really a modern take that will solve modern issues. The biggest problem, with which I whole-heartedly agree with you on, is that Finkelstein structures his argument around campist positions with his main thrust being that he strongly disagrees with Israel siding with the United States. For a long time, too many left campists have taken the Stalin line on Israel and it's by all means unnuanced. The back-rationalisation of the material conditions is pretty naked when they refuse to address the material conditions of the violence that continues to be perpetuated against Jewish institutions and folk.
I have enjoyed Lonerbox over the last 2 years, but as far as I am concerned Norman Finklestein should not be the focus of your attention. Nor should the Houthi's. The Palestinian question has opened like the gates of hell, and as far as most are concerned, the historical responsibility for that lies squarely on Israel. I cannot support the bully in ANY situation. This is a war of the wealthy against the poor. If you cannot see this, then there is no point following you any more. This is not an intellectual exercise... the ethical dimensions are very clear. I am going to to leave this channel.
@@topwomble yes I know, and whilst I think he is a highly principled man, he shouldn't be treated as the premiere expert on things, he is perhaps too emotionally invested, which clouds his judgement. But I think he has more integrity than people are treating him here, by only zeroing in on his errors. He had the guts to not be manipulated into silence by the mindfuck "self-hating jew" game. If I were him I would have lost my mind enduring all that gaslighting. Ethnocentric narcissism makes me sick.
Obviously Norm isn't a Neo-Nazi or anything, but his talking points here are quite close to Nick Fuentes at times, especially with the 'Jews are doing great' so don't worry about the anti-semitism thing
They are doing great if you put them beside Palestinians... I mean who has the money and connections and arms? If anybody SHOULD be feeling vulnerable its those Arabs, whose main crime from the start was poverty, insignificance and more melanin in their skin. I think we have merely learnt to accept this constant whining from sectors of the Jewish community, and their cultivated victimhood. It's what leads their people to label genuine criticism as discrimination. Once that spell is broken though, it never returns. Psychoanalysis should be applied to cultures more often.
I have officially found my favorite UA-camr! I’ve been watching your videos for hours. You’re videos are structured so well and hold my attention! Thanks for the great content. ❤
To be fair, though, the reason why some people's reaction to October 7th has been so shocking (at least to me) is the fact that antisemitism really did seem like a remnant of the past up until then.
It's more and more obvious that this Lonerbox guy stands firm with Israel... during a genocide. Good job dude. Instead of debating some random 2 second clip that honestly who tf cares about, why don't you engage with actual work (as in books) on the subject?
I heard alot of progressive Iranians stand wirh Israel, is that correct? Because it's the IRI's dogma to destroy Israel and blame everything on them right?
I really look up to Norman and his historical knowledge But I know he says some wack stuff sometimes. This is on a new level though geez. This might have been right before he gave up Palestinian advocacy for anti-woke stuff :( he really went off the deep end
Finkelstein claims to be an expert on the Holocaust and Nazism, supposedly that is his specialised area of research. However he mostly engages in denialism and whitewashing. For example: 1.) He personally absolved the Swiss banks regarding their misconduct towards Holocaust survivors, claiming instead the Swiss bank were victims of Jews. The Holocaust survivors trying to get family money and property from Swiss banks after the end of the war, often for decades due to those banks refusal, were terrorising those poor Swiss banks…. 2.) He praises the well-known Holocaust denier David Irving on several occasions, most recently at pro-Corbyn solidarity meeting a couple of years ago. David Irving fabricates misinformation about the Holocaust and Nazis, absolving various Nazis including Hitler… 3.) He compared the secular satirical magazine “Charlie Hebdo” with the Nazi party propaganda newspaper “Der Stuermer” - and the people working for Charlie Hebdo with the editor of “Der Stuermer” Julius Streicher. Streicher was not only the editor of the Nazis party propaganda newspaper, but Gauleiter of Franconia, a member of the Reichstag and a high ranking Nazi. Streicher was part of the Nazi machine that worked towards the murder of all European Jews. He was a hardcore Nazi. Comparing the execution of high ranking Nazi like Julius Reicher after he was trialled for crimes against humanity in Nuremberg after WW2 with the cold blooded murder of all employees of secular satirical magazine that is not associated with any political ideology - that is rather typical for Finkelstein… 4.) I could continue for pages & hours…. IN GENERAL… … his entire discourse around the Holocaust and Nazism has been one of revisionism - denying or minimising culpability of offending parties and individuals, shifting blame on victims, and providing outright cover for Holocaust deniers such as Irving.
Worth double checking his statements of supposed historical fact against what he cites. A lot of it is extremely alarmingly inaccurate. Which is scary because it appears he IS very knowledgeable of the history - meaning he’s publishing a narrative, made himself become the “leading academic source” on this history, and therefore has intentionally misrepresented and rewritten history. I believed the general consensus that he’s the guy with invaluable knowledge, but it’s become apparent to me that I was a sucker for taking it at face value. I’m still working to reconcile what I’ve “learned” from him with the actual historical facts to get to the bottom of what I “know”. It’s troubling.
@@plekazunga oh shit, what a cool coincidence! _The Michael Jordan of Drunk Driving_ played randomly at the end of my playlist earlier today. Never heard that one before, made me laugh pretty hard (kinda beautiful in a weird way too?)
Don’t know if this even needs to be cleared up, but Finklestein is horribly wrong about assimilation and marriage being symptoms of softening outlooks on a group of people. Forced assimilation was obviously a thing in many parts of history, including modern history, and marriage was very much a part of that process. That doesn’t betray an increased friendliness towards that group of people inherently.
I wonder how Finkelstein's words in this clip fair in the black and gay community Cause I can't see why these arguments shouldn't fair the same for these groups as well About the Gaza population poll, I don't disagree that crazy opinions (even brainwashed ones) are a reason to attack civilians, but this poll paints a picture of the overall mindset and why it is so hard to just clear the Gaza civilian population from fault
"Doesn't matter if synagogues are targeted with firebombings, because they were expensive synagogue"
"The human species is doing great as a whole, lots of intermarrying, clearly there's no racism anywhere of any type"
How can someone be so far gone?
Of course! Louie Armstrong was popular in the early 20th century. Clearly there was no racism back then.
@@Batmans_Pet_Goldfish it's not being far gone he just starts with a conclusion, and works from there.
Being a red mao communist from birth with two equally mental parents who think the USSR was great with no flaws will lead to you having mental conclusions.
Finkelstein is the candice Owens of the Jewish community
I was thinking the exact same thing
Yeah I don’t know what the Uncle Tom for Jews term is… and honestly I don’t even want to perpetuate one. This description is pretty solid 😅
@@Michael-kp4bd Uncle Norm it is then...
@@Michael-kp4bdthe most common one I've heard is "Kapo" in reference to the Jewish functionaries of nazi concentration camps and ghettos, but that term may be a little loaded for people to be comfortable using casually.
@@pan-semitistcommunist4181 asajew is one i've heard used, kinda to describe someone's who everybody's token jew friend. also somewhat akin to the ''as a black man'' meme
"I'm one of the good ones" Norm Finkelstein
I thought Finklestein's brain broke after October 7th, turns out his brain was very broken beforehand
finklestein's brain has always been broken. being an unironic Maoist is insane, and he's been one his whole life. He's literally just morallly lucky.
This is the guy evey insane lefty quotes when talking about Israel palastine 😂
yeah, cuz he knows what he is talking about unlike libs like Loner and Destiny who are basically apologists for Israel. Destiny was supposed to debate Finkelstein and then he didnt show up lmao, cause he would get decimated.
Yes cuz he knows what he is talking about unlike Loner or Destiny. Destiny was supposed to debate Finkelstein and then he didnt show up 😂😂😂 cuz he wouldnt stand a chance.
@@sheriefelsayad5578and you still think he is intelligent after watching this clip?
@@josiah918ify everything he said here is correct. So yes. Loner and his audience are a bit pathetic and not that smart so it might be hard for you to understand. Its okay.. i get it
@@sheriefelsayad5578
So the kind of logic of constructing justifications for racial and religious hatred of entire groups can be applied to other minorities across various European countries?!? You would be fine with that as well?!? As long as you don’t come crying when similar “logical justification” are applied to other groups… for example Muslims… or people from the Middle East… or XYZ… Please be consistent in justifying racial hatred and religious intolerance!
Kinkelstein sounds like he has just woken up all the time.
Really feels like as if somethings wrong with his vocal cords
This nickname makes me nervous but I’m not exactly certain what the pun is lol
LOL
Or about to fall asleep
This dude is absolutely nuts
not even kidding when I say that *that* viral clip of him talking to a jewish woman where he pulls out the "my family was in nazi contentration camps" card basically made his carreer and has given him most of the popularity he now has, I doubt that the vast majority of leftists on twitter even know of clips like the one here
I was there, it was at my university during the summer term in 2003. I'm old af... anyway that was during a very long and contentious Q&A and was the final event during "Palestine Week", and event where zionist students tore down banners and caused disruptions at the very idea that we were even saying "Palestine". The crowd was full of people who came to yell at Finklestein. It was a big mess and him saying his family history in the holocaust didn't seem out of place at all after him being accused of antisemitism repeatedly. He's an old crank, at the time he was the most respected and knowledgeable person on the topic in the English speaking world. He's gone a bit nuts since then, but frankly I'd argue that your career being destroyed by Dershowitz will do that to a person.
@@orlandodasilva2529
Dershowitz is a horrible person. No question about that. Not sure if Dershowitz being awful, which is rather typical for him, justifies some of the stuff Finkelstein got up to or said since. Who sides with Swiss banks who refuse to return property including heirlooms etc. to Holocaust survivors? Finkelstein goes even a step further, he accuses the Holocaust survivors who have been trying for decades to get family property and money back from those banks as the “true culprits” … those Jews are terrorising those poor Swiss bank? He is absolutely alone with that argument and reasoning regarding that “Swiss banks & Holocaust survivor” situation…
@@orlandodasilva2529it’s so true. Such a mixed bag of feelings while trying to show people he’s a crank while at the same time feeling for him being for all intents and purposes “cancelled” (with regard to his academic career for a while) by literally Alan fckjng Dershowitz 😅
I despise him for his dishonesty and whatever complexes he had going on, but yep… kinda see where it all went wrong
@Lorenz1973 not an excuse or anything, just seems like a tragic figure.
@@orlandodasilva2529 indeed. Almost made me laugh as I read your comment and then immediately looked again at this videos thumbnail which reads “No Excuses.”
he's not like other jews
Hearing him talk here is the first time I've been convinced that he's genuinely antisemitic.
There’s another clip a year or two ago I saw on an interview where he completely unleashes on Jews and the interviewers felt so awkward. Haven’t been able to find it though
@@joel-yd1rv Are you talking about This Is Revolution podcast?
He’s Jewish and his parents survived the Holocaust.
It sounds like Finkelstein is saying "you're Jewish, hate against you is part of life. Deal with it."
Finkelstein was considered crazy by any reasonable standards before october 7th. Then suddenly for some reason he started appearing on every media channel as a sane voice regarding this conflict.
lol same shit with neo nazis and alike... when anti semetism turns into the new cool thing you have all the outsiders of society rise in fame XD
Compared to the pure insanity coming out of Israel, and both US and UK governments, he is a sane voice.
@@adrien5834 Lol what?
@@jimmy_xi9342 welcome to "west bad" syndrome
@@pedronabais1456 idk, I don't think it's really all that out there to say that our country's response to this who dealio hasn't been ideal.
He's definitely nowhere remotely close to a "sane voice" though
22:50 Crucial question: what do they consider to be a civlian? A fair share of those supporting terrorist attacks, but disawoving attacks on civilians might simply not recognize most jews/ israelis as civilians, but essentially as all occupiers that to them are essentially combatants.
i think they define civilian as ''innocent'' morally, which is just not how how one defines it
@@mimosa245
So collective punishment of entire group based on some collective guilt is okay depending on the group…?!? Either collective punishment of an entire group including children is not morally justified/ acceptable or it is morally justified/ acceptable. Either it is or it isn’t… Be consistent in terms of the morality of collective punishment.
@@Lorenz1973 I don't agree with the definiton, Im just saying their stance
The matter of Israeli civillians is only vague and complicated thanks to Israel's mandatory military service.
Since the stated goal of Hamas on that day was to capture as many Military Personnel as possible for hostaged exchange to release as many Palestinians detained in Israeli prisons, and that everyone of age in Israel has served or is serving the military or is a reservist, a huge portion of Israel's population became targets.
@@nathanielmartins5930 That's bullshit. Many nations have mandatory military service. This doesnt makes the entire or half of the adult population combatants. Never. This isnt ambigious.
How you try to white wash hamas that massacred a festival, put a child into an oven and raped women on corpses is truly sickening. Thats exactly what i was alluding to in my original comment.
Lonerbox literally made Finkelsteims argument for him here. The amount of hate crimes against muslims absolutely is tied to the amount of extremist islamist violence. Same was true for ethnic Germans or Japanese outside Germany/Japan during WW2, or any other conflict where people feel they are on a side. It is campist and essentialist, but hardly unique to hatred of jews. If a group purporting to speak for a larger group commits acts of violence, people will retaliate against people of the aforementioned larger group.
Therefore, Israel's action directly contribute to anti-semitism in a massive way.
Lonerbox also ignores norm’s bigger point that criticism of the government is equated with racism but I will say he’s much more clear about this in recent interviews.
@@makeitrainnaren Since 2017 you can be arrested here in Germany for doing anti-semitic hate speech if you criticise the actions of Israel, which itself is an incredibly anti-semitic notion. That is like saying criticising the actions of Germany is anti-German, which is insane.
Yup here in the US it's illegal to boycott a certain country in 35 states and federal rules supersede. @@wfb.subtraktor311
@@wfb.subtraktor311
Please provide evidence of arrests for criticism of the Israeli government or Israeli politicians or specific policies of the Israeli government - in Germany. What are the numbers of such arrests? Per year? How long are the prison sentences? Longest/ shortest/ average? Please provide data of overall numbers of arrests and concrete examples of incidents (including statements). Please do not include individuals who were part of or close to groups supporting the PFLP, Al Quds, Samidoun, etc.
Didn’t Erdogan sue a German comedian?!? Have any Israeli politicians sued any Germans in a similar fashion?!? Please provide examples.
@@Lorenz1973 There is a declaration by the Bundestag from 2017 based on a 300 page paper by an independent Expert Komission called "Bericht des unabhängigen Expertenkreises Antisemitismus" which not only has several sub-chapters on how criticism of Israel is antisemitic but also specifically cites the statement "Israel's treatment of Palestinians is no different from the Nazi's treatment of Jews" as an example of said antisemitism, which is insane. If you publically proclaim these statements, they can arrest you for incitement of hatred. There is a case recently where a jewish woman with an Israeli passport held up a sign saying something like "as a jew and Israeli, ceasefire now" and police arrested her and took her away within 10 minutes.
It isn't even just the state doing this, the majority of people are equally brainwashed. Recently we had so-called pro-democracy protests. People who showed solidarity with palestinians, for example by wearing palestinian flags, were beaten and spat on in several unrelated incidents. Antisemitism isn't the problem here, full-throated support of a fascist government engaging in genocide is.
Edit: corrected the name of the report
Finkelstein is a very weird dude.
:-)
He's an old school Maoist. That's one explanation.
@@robinpage2730holy shit, that's pretty bad.
Isn't this basically just a Jewish version of Jesse Lee Peterson?
Amazin’
lol nowhere even close. norm actually knows how to read
More like Candace owens
No, he's more of a Candece Owens. Jesse is too dumb to grift.
@@snowballeffect7812 Apparently reading hasn't done him all that good.
Thank you🙏
I don’t think we “legitimize” attacks on civilians based on what they think of the terrorists we are fighting against. We are just less sad about collateral damage that supports the terrorist, than we are about collateral damage who were against the terrorists.
Because both cases, the collateral damage is because of the terrorists. But if you get killed because of a group you support, then you are more responsible for your own misfortune, than if you were dragged into the situation by people you despise.
you're defending genocide
@@mgg7756 no matter how you twist it, civilians dying in a war is not a genocide. When german civilians died by the millions after people decided that the Nazis must be stamped out, that wasn’t genocide. The bombs stopped falling as soon as the Nazis surrendered.
Hamas started a war of aggression, did not secure their civilians before starting the war, so if you are capable of thinking in 2-3 steps, you understand that the civilian deaths are their fault. The bombs will stop falling as soon as they surrender and come out of their tunnels and release the hostages.
@@mgg7756 I don't know why people are still calling it a genocide at this point. Its just a completely unsupported claim
WOW, the side of Finkelstein they don't show you on Breaking Points and Piers Morgan's show.
Just finding out about "Unkle Norm"?
Thank you for this.
"Choose any European country, if you're in France, would you rather be Jewish or Short, would you rather be Jewish or obese..." - Norman Finkelstein Feb 10th, 2015
January 9th, 2015 Paris France: "Hypercacher kosher supermarket siege" - 4 Jewish men killed by close friend of the perpetrator of the Charlie Hebdo attacks.
Very poor taste, truly an embarrassing academic.
the guy said he had no sympathy for the slaughtered at CH, whom he compared to Nazis, and called the islamic fascists who did it “desperate and despairing men”.
This is the guy that Krystal Ball and Kyle Kuliniski look up to lol
He's a great man
The fact the whole world is listening to this crazy guy and takes him seriously worries me.
In every interview Finkelstein has he says he's spent his adult life studying the Israel-Palestine conflict and done little else. When it comes to that conflict I believe he is a trust worthy scholar. Ask him about a lot of other stuff and it's a different story.
Freeman Dyson was one of the greatest physicists of the 20th century but he was also a climate change denialist. Obviously that doesn't mean that you either have to not believe his physics or not believe in climate change.
Finkelstein describes Holocaust denier David Irving as a great historian. Irving has consistently lied and misrepresented “documents”, “statements”, etc. about the Holocaust - whitewashing high ranking Nazis from responsibility for the Holocaust, going as far as claiming that those Nazis didn’t know about the Holocaust or completely misrepresenting key elements of the Holocaust. Irving’s opinions and outright misinformation is contradicted by overwhelming evidence… And Finkelstein claims to be a Holocaust researcher. Finkelstein misrepresents facts and covers for those who do the same when it comes to what he claims to be the core area of his research - the Holocaust. He even covers for outright Holocaust deniers. So Finkelstein is more like a physicist who who thinks physics is black magic.
If he studied the Israel-Palestine conflict for his whole life and did nothing else then why does he lie about even the most basic facts? He stated for example that Israel never let a single person ever in nor out of Gaza, ever, under any circumstance, since Hamas got elected.
💯%. Finkelstein's rhetorical style is also intentionally very inflammatory, and I totally understand why it turns people off.
rhetorical style does not matter at all when he is outright blatantly lying @@gracehetfield5331
He's completely right.
This comment section is neoliberal identity politics heaven.
"neoliberal identity politics" Seriously, what is this even supposed to mean?
Please explain what a ‘neoliberal’ is because I seem to lack the requisite socialist orthodoxy and therefore I’ve become one. Obviously you’re the arbiter of such things.
@@Whatshisname346 it is the prevailing form of liberal politics beginning in the 1970s that removes any focus from corporate regulation, embraces the exploitation of foreign trade, regardless of the global implications and focuses on socially liberal concepts as the distraction from any real changes and critiques of capitalism that would create a better quality of life for everybody, as opposed to using half measures as a way to keep the working class divided.
@@IsomerSoma hey read a book instead of just watching this guy regurgitate what destiny says and you will understand more about how this stuff works
@@mtcnaz Lmao literally malding at people actually trying to improve the material conditions instead of LARPing as revolutionaries
Edifying…
Wtf!? Had no idea this guy was so intellectually empty.
It’s in Finkelstein’s interest to downplay antisemitism in relation to Israel.
Breaking points has been featuring him as an expert for weeks now and its making me rip my hair out.
The general consensus is that’s he’s THE expert. His revisionism has become a primary source… this stuff really needs to be exposed as bunk. I mean it’s nearly too late - a lot of good faith academics and commentators will likely be unable to divest their trust in him and snap out of buying into his lies
I completely quit watching Breaking Points for this reason. I'm fine watching people I radically disagree with, but this shows nothing but an unreasoned, irrational, wholly ideological agenda of the kind that put me off mainstream media in the first place. Seriously, seriously disappointed in alternative media at the moment.
I imagine Stormfront and similar sites have this clip playing on repeat.
7:45 You could use that same logic to justify the fucking Japanese Internment Camps in the US.
"Jews are serving in the military, leading political and social movements, they're ministers in the government, things can only get better from here!" -Finklestein circa 1920, Germany.
To be fair, if you were to attempt to do something about the main vector of antisemitism (or homophobia) in western Europe, you would probably be accused of islamophobia, if you know what I mean.
he's doing the "white people are not privileged because asian-americans are doing better" argument, but for jews
The main foil for Finkelstein is for guys like Alan Dershowitz. It's. . .fine but not widely applicable and not really a modern take that will solve modern issues. The biggest problem, with which I whole-heartedly agree with you on, is that Finkelstein structures his argument around campist positions with his main thrust being that he strongly disagrees with Israel siding with the United States. For a long time, too many left campists have taken the Stalin line on Israel and it's by all means unnuanced. The back-rationalisation of the material conditions is pretty naked when they refuse to address the material conditions of the violence that continues to be perpetuated against Jewish institutions and folk.
I have enjoyed Lonerbox over the last 2 years, but as far as I am concerned Norman Finklestein should not be the focus of your attention. Nor should the Houthi's. The Palestinian question has opened like the gates of hell, and as far as most are concerned, the historical responsibility for that lies squarely on Israel. I cannot support the bully in ANY situation. This is a war of the wealthy against the poor. If you cannot see this, then there is no point following you any more. This is not an intellectual exercise... the ethical dimensions are very clear. I am going to to leave this channel.
16 million jews vs 2 billion Muslims are the bully? One Jewish state compared to 50+ Muslim majority countries is the bully?
Finkelstein is brought up constantly in relation to the conflict, this is highly relevant content
@@topwomble yes I know, and whilst I think he is a highly principled man, he shouldn't be treated as the premiere expert on things, he is perhaps too emotionally invested, which clouds his judgement. But I think he has more integrity than people are treating him here, by only zeroing in on his errors. He had the guts to not be manipulated into silence by the mindfuck "self-hating jew" game. If I were him I would have lost my mind enduring all that gaslighting. Ethnocentric narcissism makes me sick.
@@deanmcinerney2324 highly principled? Holy shit yes please leave and don’t come back.
What do you have to say about the @travelingisrael video where he debanks everything you say?
Finklestein seems like the kinda dude who loves driving his panzer and loves the look of a little tiny mustache.
Is this an influx of Turkey Tom fans in this Box d’Loner? Welcome!
He’s literally Jewish.
💜🤠
I think he’s great
Obviously Norm isn't a Neo-Nazi or anything, but his talking points here are quite close to Nick Fuentes at times, especially with the 'Jews are doing great' so don't worry about the anti-semitism thing
They are doing great if you put them beside Palestinians... I mean who has the money and connections and arms? If anybody SHOULD be feeling vulnerable its those Arabs, whose main crime from the start was poverty, insignificance and more melanin in their skin. I think we have merely learnt to accept this constant whining from sectors of the Jewish community, and their cultivated victimhood. It's what leads their people to label genuine criticism as discrimination. Once that spell is broken though, it never returns. Psychoanalysis should be applied to cultures more often.
I have officially found my favorite UA-camr! I’ve been watching your videos for hours. You’re videos are structured so well and hold my attention! Thanks for the great content. ❤
yo that beat is fire
11:35 in fact, im pretty sure MLK said violence is bad. It was kinda his whole thing.
You know I might quibble with Finklestein's comparison between someone assuming he's cheap and someone cold-clocking because he was openly jewish.
Would you rather be a screwdriver or a jew ? would you rather be a piece of cheese or a jew ? ... such strong arguments, im convinced
Cheese. There's no contest. It doesn't even really matter what the second thing is.. cheese is the right choice.
Finkle would look great in an SS suit
norm lost the plot YEARS ago
I put Lonerbox's name in the Lex Friedman poll alongside Norm's because they would make a pretty funny pro-Palestine duo
I really want lonerbox to expand his platform. He’s one of the most honest truth seekers on UA-cam
Why does Finkelstein always sound high as balls?
To be fair, though, the reason why some people's reaction to October 7th has been so shocking (at least to me) is the fact that antisemitism really did seem like a remnant of the past up until then.
Chat is fucking WILD in this one.
God damn.
It's more and more obvious that this Lonerbox guy stands firm with Israel... during a genocide. Good job dude. Instead of debating some random 2 second clip that honestly who tf cares about, why don't you engage with actual work (as in books) on the subject?
Oh yea, they're genociding the Palestinians so hard they forgot to genocide the 2 million Palestinians living in Israel.
What?
@mgg7756 is not well @@jimmy_xi9342
@@jimmy_xi9342 any questions?
I'm from Iran and I stand 100% with Israel 🇮🇱
I heard alot of progressive Iranians stand wirh Israel, is that correct? Because it's the IRI's dogma to destroy Israel and blame everything on them right?
Finkelstein 🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨🤨
I really look up to Norman and his historical knowledge
But I know he says some wack stuff sometimes. This is on a new level though geez. This might have been right before he gave up Palestinian advocacy for anti-woke stuff :( he really went off the deep end
Finkelstein claims to be an expert on the Holocaust and Nazism, supposedly that is his specialised area of research. However he mostly engages in denialism and whitewashing. For example:
1.) He personally absolved the Swiss banks regarding their misconduct towards Holocaust survivors, claiming instead the Swiss bank were victims of Jews. The Holocaust survivors trying to get family money and property from Swiss banks after the end of the war, often for decades due to those banks refusal, were terrorising those poor Swiss banks….
2.) He praises the well-known Holocaust denier David Irving on several occasions, most recently at pro-Corbyn solidarity meeting a couple of years ago. David Irving fabricates misinformation about the Holocaust and Nazis, absolving various Nazis including Hitler…
3.) He compared the secular satirical magazine “Charlie Hebdo” with the Nazi party propaganda newspaper “Der Stuermer” - and the people working for Charlie Hebdo with the editor of “Der Stuermer” Julius Streicher. Streicher was not only the editor of the Nazis party propaganda newspaper, but Gauleiter of Franconia, a member of the Reichstag and a high ranking Nazi. Streicher was part of the Nazi machine that worked towards the murder of all European Jews. He was a hardcore Nazi. Comparing the execution of high ranking Nazi like Julius Reicher after he was trialled for crimes against humanity in Nuremberg after WW2 with the cold blooded murder of all employees of secular satirical magazine that is not associated with any political ideology - that is rather typical for Finkelstein…
4.) I could continue for pages & hours….
IN GENERAL…
… his entire discourse around the Holocaust and Nazism has been one of revisionism - denying or minimising culpability of offending parties and individuals, shifting blame on victims, and providing outright cover for Holocaust deniers such as Irving.
You have an AJJ profile pic? Respect 🤘
Worth double checking his statements of supposed historical fact against what he cites. A lot of it is extremely alarmingly inaccurate. Which is scary because it appears he IS very knowledgeable of the history - meaning he’s publishing a narrative, made himself become the “leading academic source” on this history, and therefore has intentionally misrepresented and rewritten history.
I believed the general consensus that he’s the guy with invaluable knowledge, but it’s become apparent to me that I was a sucker for taking it at face value. I’m still working to reconcile what I’ve “learned” from him with the actual historical facts to get to the bottom of what I “know”. It’s troubling.
@@plekazunga oh shit, what a cool coincidence! _The Michael Jordan of Drunk Driving_ played randomly at the end of my playlist earlier today. Never heard that one before, made me laugh pretty hard (kinda beautiful in a weird way too?)
😂😂 he's a revisionist history guy
Bro im sorry but he looks high or something here. Does Norman have a history of drug abuse?
Don’t know if this even needs to be cleared up, but Finklestein is horribly wrong about assimilation and marriage being symptoms of softening outlooks on a group of people. Forced assimilation was obviously a thing in many parts of history, including modern history, and marriage was very much a part of that process. That doesn’t betray an increased friendliness towards that group of people inherently.
Finklestein is so based and 100% correct. BECAUSE of him i love all jewish people
I wonder how Finkelstein's words in this clip fair in the black and gay community
Cause I can't see why these arguments shouldn't fair the same for these groups as well
About the Gaza population poll, I don't disagree that crazy opinions (even brainwashed ones) are a reason to attack civilians, but this poll paints a picture of the overall mindset and why it is so hard to just clear the Gaza civilian population from fault
I thought finklestein was a hack first time i heard him
Norman : After every israeli operation, there is a rise of anti-semitism
Lonerbox : How dare he not acknowledge anti-semitism
Finkelstein is an impartial observer of life.
Nazi simp
and your mother is an impartial observer of deez nuts
no lies detected, based finkelstein
Nazi simp
**rubs hands together like Birdman**
@ellis7622 birdman? Sounds jewish ayyy? Jajajaja
"Attacks on jews internationally as a reaction to actions of israel is no antisemitism" (paraphased)
Nazi Simp
@9:50 exactly.. collective punishment is wrong, except when its against jews then its justified apparently
Is About time to everyone get it how hateful and Biased this Finkelstein Professor is.