I have had the Sl Q and TL2 and CL. Tbh there is almost no difference in image quality between these cameras. The TL2 is a better travel camera for its in body charging and 32 gigs of RAM on board. The CL focuses faster and more reliably over the TL and it’s better for flash use. The SL was awesome but too heavy to be practical for travel where your walking around / hiking, the q was awesome for travel but often is not wide enough at least for me and say interiors of churches in France. The CL is for me the best compromise for size and and functionality. It and the Fuji x100v are almost identical in size oddly enough with the 18 on it.
Thanks Paul, great insight. I always forget to give the TL some love, mostly as i've never used one so overlook them. Yes CL + 18mm is perfect for travel.
An excellent synopsis Matt. I always enjoy your rapid-fire presentations. Faff-free. I bought my SL (601) first ( to digitize my M-glass), then picked up the CL as a 24MP backup and travel camera. One salient point you didn't mention is the CL uses the newer 3-button interface, common on the M10/11, Q series and SL2. Besides the physical buttons, the Leica CL also has the newer menu GUI with touchscreen, which is a drastic improvement to the older SL. Totally agree with your conclusion. The SL has been a tremendous FF EVF value for the last couple of years and is a true workhorse. The CL is an amazing travel camera, more true to Oskar Barnack's original vision.
Thanks JK, ah yes I forgot to mention the "3 button newer menu" of the CL. I do enjoy that when I use that camera and i'm happ you like the rapid fire approach (it's my attemp to get people to watch more than 30-40% of a video!)
Matt, you've become "an institution" in sharing your photography knowledge and experience, DON'T STOP. Not only is it knowledge but even more so, the contagion of being a photographer. Your 15 min videos pack enough to make 115min videos of many other utubers. Thanks for doing what you are doing and if you are ever again somewhere in PL near Wroclaw, I'd love to buy you a coffee and pick your brain some more. Cheers.
Thanks Piotr! very kind. If you follow me at MrLeica.com I write in the monthly newsletter ( mrleica.com/free-newsletter/ ) where I will be travelling so if I come to Wroclaw we can try to meet if we cross paths!
I really like the concept of the CL. It was just too expensive as a value proposition - too expensive within the Leica line-up that is. I'm sad the CL is being discontinued. I was hoping for a more appealing CL2 (weather sealing, IBIS). The SL body is just too large. The bodies, the lenses. It's too large as a camera I would lug around most of the time. Panasonic got it right with the size in the S5. Sony got it right with their A7 line and E Mount has a lot of high quality, small fast primes. L Mount does not (exception are the Sigma contemporary primes for L mount). I don't think there is any chance Leica will add a smaller SL body to the line up - it would not offer much of a benefit given how large the SL lenses are; they could not price it any cheaper without hurting their portfolio. I looked at the product shelf at the Leica store recently and confused the SL zoom lenses with Leica S medium format lenses, because they've put the lenses next to an S3 and the lenses matched the size of the body. Think about this: Leica, the pioneer of small, portable cameras is doubling down on large, heavy, bulky cameras and lenses which are larger in size and weight than anybody else's products in that format. I think the way to look at the SL portfolio: its targeted competitors are medium format cameras, not other 35mm small frame format cameras (yes, I am using the correct term, "full frame" is not the original, correct term for the 35mm format, Leica invented 35mm format as "Kleinbild", which means small frame). My Leica M bodies (M3, MP, M10) are as large as I am willing to go with a Leica body. A 35mm small frame camera should not be larger than a Sony A7, Panasonic S5 etc. - just my personal preference. I have no doubt the SL cameras are a joy to use - when you don't have to lug them around all day and you don't have to care about being candid that is.
The L-mount Alliance made the camera discount prices more acceptable since there were lenses from Lumix and Sigma. It is a shame. I hope that the L2 joint enterprise will provide more options - especially something like an M with L-mount I'm still interested in the Sigma fp L or fp until then. They are also more heavy duty than the CL.
Thanks TW, yes totally agree on SL lenses (I've seen them next to S lenses too!) SL with M lenses is better. I have no interest in fat SL lenses. Agree the small form of the M system for most photography works well and yes sorry I forgot to mention the end of the CL line. Will add to a future video.
I love my SL . Sometimes I wish, it was more compact. If they made a full frame CL, that would be awesome. Would you be interested to make a video about the sigma fp? I would love to watch that.
Excellent video on 2 big winners.... I'll keep my CL as my small AF "go kit" as it does accept all my M, LTM and L lenses😊 and I 'll keep my SL2-S as my main AF kit. And I do not regret my M10P. And now for street photo I use my SL2S with a 28mm (Ultron or Summaron LTM) and sometime the TL18mm (APSC so 27mm) that make my SL2 even smaller, fast and sharp ...
The CL has a newer sensor which makes the photos look more like the SL2/Panasonics (which I prefer). The CL batteries are much cheaper and you can buy clones from Panasonic, which is suitable for traveling. The CL has the new user interface from the SL2, which is a hughe improvement imho. Overall you get a better IQ in the CL, better image quality and a smaller size. The only downside is the smaller viewfinder, and that some of the Aps-c lenses are much to big. I use the CL as a back up and travel camera, with the 18 mm and 23 mm, but mainly with full frame lenses. The new ff Sigma Dg Dn are awesome and fit very well.
Thanks Steve, ah yes I do like the CL interface. Great that you agree with my "Panasonic look" too. Yes the CL is king for a small Leica setup and agree third party batteries are fine (not a deal breaker).
Nice video. I will stick with my CL for now. I like crop sensors as I can carry smaller lenses and all my kit fits in a small camera bag meant for one SLR body and one lens. That includes a charger, flash and a small LED light! The image quality is exceptional and the camera is easy to use especially with manual lenses.
I have swapped my M240 for an M10 now, but I still use my CL all the time! Can't see myself ever selling it, really. The lenses and image quality are just crazy good compared to the tiny size and light weight. I really hope they change their minds about crop sensor cameras. If not, I'll probably get another CL or a TL2 before they start going up in price on the used market :-)
I also have the SL (Typ 601) but for street, event, travel, landscape and architecture photography I slowly go back to my M8 and M9-P, they are simply more straight forward and easy to use with better image quality out of the box thanks to the CCDs and the great M lenses. Plus the M system is A LOT lighter and easier to carry around with a complete set of lenses.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I normally don’t need more than ISO 640 and I never ran into trouble with the speed of the older Ms. Another plus is that people don’t recognise you as a serious photographer that wants to kill them when shooting a little silver M. The SL is too large and black for street photography, I simply don’t get any nice candid street scenes with this camera, focusing is also a lot slower.
I'd like to mention that the SL has really solid 4K video as well. The caveats are horrible rolling shutter, crop, and no log format. But the colors are absolutely gorgeous so if you get your WB and exposure right in camera, you can just edit and export and it will be absolutely stunning.
Thank you, I must try using it properly as haven't really used it. As you can tell from my videos I don't edit the footage (other that cut it down) so if the basic footage looks like it works for me.
Your example photos are so amazing. The Sigma 30mm DC DN you showed has character, more so than the TL 35 1.4 to me anyway. Not sure about the SL, but the SL2 is water resistant/proof, so that’s another reason to grab the bigger camera.
I use most of that Sigma F1.4 series of autofocus lenses on my CL. They are built nice and are perfect with the CL. I use the F2.8 Sigma zoom too, has a good general wide end coverage.
Thank you. I know what you mean by the colors. The CL colors are less accurate than the SL/SL2. I am on a trip and I decided to take the M10R and CL and left the SL2S at home so I agree with your recommendation. I dont think I will get rid of the CL. I like it so much. I ordered the 18mm TL lens. I can't wait to try it out for going on hikes or traveling about.
Working with a borrowed Sony A7ii now matching nicely my old Minolta MD lenses. It is too small and awkward for my hands, but it gets the job done. Manual focussing a vintage lens on a mirrorless camera just has something fun to it as well, and I like being able to see the B&W preview. Maybe when I get some nicer lenses I will look into the SL, that viewfinder sure is something special from what I remember!
If jumped from one Leica, to another and then another, it clearly indicates what it doesn't matter which camera was in use. I was going to get SL in addition to M-E 220, but realized what old 5D MKII does it well too and for less :)
our thoughts go out to the original SL and CL - SL being an SLR 135 film camera (full frame) and CL being a full frame 135 compact regular M-mount rangefinder camera developed in collaboration with Minolta that launched a couple matching compact M mount lenses. The Leica CL was sold as Minolta CL in parts of the world. No, the SL did not have Leica M robustness/reliability. The CL however was a very neat thing
I have the SL2S ,246 and a full CL kit. Just can`t get rid of the CL .I use it with my M lenses ,,,, nice and small and some extra reach . The SL2s was the biggest disappointment .Its heavy and the AF isn`t good enough for what I need .I only have two lenses for it . A Pany 70/200 and the 24/70 .The 24/70 gives me a useful range on the CL and today I`m going to see how the 70/200 performs on the CL. So apart from its lovely native lenses the Cl is also a very useful tele converter .
Hi Matt, nice to hear from you again on Leica cameras and lenses. Just bought a brand new TL2 at a huge discount to pair with the tiny 18 mm Elmarit. Just for fun, I will try my 135 mm Tele-Elmar lens on it with the EVF.
Why does Leica make the same mistake all over again? (It's almost as if history repeats itself.) Decades ago they discontinued the lovely and popular original (film) Leica CL in favour of the much larger and heavier Leica M5 and Leicaflex cameras, and the company almost went down the tubes! Now I keep seeing reports that they're discontinuing the brilliant (digital) Leica CL in favour of the grossly oversize and overweight Leica SL2 and SL2-S cameras (and their grossly oversize and overweight lenses) and Q2 cameras that, almost unbelievably for serious cameras, have a fixed lens. The current CL is simply the best camera Leica has ever made. Is it perfect? No, of course not. It's five or so years old and certainly could be improved (as per the SL-to-SL2 developments)---IBIS, weather sealing, higher resolution EVF, higher megapixel BSI sensor, and so forth. And, yes, it could have a full frame sensor. If the Leica Q2 and the Sigma FP cameras can sport full frame sensors, there's no reason why a Leica CL2 shouldn't have one. Just as the original Leica CL was pure joy to carry and use for film, the modern Leica CL is pure joy to carry and use today; and it is an unbelievable repeated stupidity for Leica to discontinue its CL camera line yet again, rather than move it forward with a new CL2 model and more of its superb lenses!
Thanks Arthur, great to see your strong support for the little CL. As mentioned I've used mine instead of M cameras I liked it so much. (Maybe don't watch my latest video, I bought a Q for the lens and to see what I can do with it). A nice weight but bulkier than the CL+18mm combo.
Hi Matt, great video, as always. I had a choice between the CL or the SL2, and I decided on the CL even though Leica will soon discontinue them. I'm a journalist and street photographer, so the lighter weight and much smaller size of the CL made the choice easy.
Great content as usual, Matt! Thanks for this video, as it really hits home. I love my CL (with grip and thumbsup) and plan to keep it as my travel/street camera (with Leica 21mm Elmarit f2.8 ASPH and vintage Summicron 40mm f/2), and I'm looking to get a used SL or SL2-S (perhaps SL2) as my main camera. I do mostly landscape, nature and astrophotography, so the SL format is much better suited for that type of work (remote shutter control, full frame sensor, etc). The two-camera setup is surprisingly accessible when shopping the used market, and since both cameras work well with the same lenses, it seems like a great setup. I only shoot manual glass (Leica, Voightlander), so AF is not on my radar. The focus assist on the CL is excellent. In time, I might replace the CL with an M10-R or base M10 (maybe an M-10D) to keep as my street/travel camera. One thing is for certain: I'm never leaving Leica. I can't quit you. :)
I hope so. Just added a TL2 to pair with the tiny 18 mm Elmarit lens as a backup of my other Leica cameras. TL2 has a very unique design like a museum artwork despite its failure in the marketplace.
Great video ! The viewfinder on both are absolutely lovely. I'm fortunate to own them both but if I were a professional I'm sure the SL or SL2 would be the choice.
Thanks! Agreed both a great. I'm splitting hairs with this but yes the SL feels more like a pro-tool vs holiday camera haha. I've used the CL happily for client work for years but I do like the fatter SL for it currently.
I have the CL and compensate for Bokeh by using F1.4 lenses with more shallow DOF, also helps cure lack of IBIS and slower high ISO low light. Matt, did you ever use a Contax 45mm F2.0 on a Leica via and adapter? Also, how does an SL2-s compare to an SL ?
They've officially discontinued the apsc lines as of May 2022. However, Leica and Lumix are directly collaborating legally/commercially and technologically via L2 Technology, so there may be something in that range and size. We'll have to see.
When I saw the title I assumed you were going to discuss the CL being discontinued. I think it's a shame, I'd been waiting around for an updated version and now Leica has squashed that idea. I think it's a nice, solid camera but it's fallen behind in some areas and I wouldn't pay their (new) asking price for 5 year old tech. Perhaps it's just not for me.
Thanks, yes i'm trying to decide whether to say goodbye to my own CL hence the title but I totally forgot to mentioned the discontinued info, sorry. I will cover in a future video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Nice, maybe speculate on the value of any older camera. I'd happily buy an old film camera but I'm reluctant to buy old digital. I used Nikon F3s professionally for 10-15 years - I've never kept a digital camera half that time because the tech changes so fast.
@@kakman1958 fair point. Leica are different, people still buy the M8 now released in 2006! It’s a different breed. I just bought a 2015 nearly new Leica Q and my SL is the same year bought last year. These cameras are too expensive when knew but offer amazing user experience if wait a few years.
Another thing that is not so great by the SL (Typ 601) is the fact that it drains the battery completely within one to two weeks when left switched off. Annoying. The Ms don‘t do that.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I don‘t think it is a fault with the battery. Maybe it is a fault with the firmware as I also have no EXIF information when choosing a lens from the manual list of R or M lenses. My batteries are almost new and hold charge very well when the camera is on. Can you tell me which firmware version you have installed and if you have GPS turned on permanently?
@@Funktrainer turn your GPS off I think. I use latest firmware. Make sure you turn economy / sleep modes on. Mine powers off after the shortest time (1min or 30sec) so I’m even if switch says ON battery still full a week later as in sleep mode.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So you are on firmware version 3.8? I also have the energy saving mode on and have the feeling that the battery is drained more when the power switch is in the OFF state. Strange, my Hasselblad H3DII doesn‘t drain the battery when turned off and it has also a GPS module attached which I use all the time. Maybe the SL is too much tech for Leica.
Over the course of nearly 60 days I just returned 3 brand new M-A's back because of dust in the viewfinder straight out of the box. Was told the replacement would be specifically checked by their technicians before sending out again. Their technicians must be blind -Never again - Luxury brand with dogshit QC - Refunding 15K - 35mm summilux and two bodies. The dream to own a Leica for 15yrs has just been crushed and all thanks to their absolutely disgraceful service. They couldn't give a toss - Never once with Canon/Olympus/Fujifilm have I experienced such shite from a manufacturer at a fraction of the cost. Glad now I've seen when they are like to deal with and how incompetent they are at correcting flaws.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom 15K Euro and no one reaching out to apologise or personally contact me to right the situation. Absolutely disgraceful from such so called "Luxury" brand. So 15K is nothing to them.. and I was going to spend another possible 6k in the future. No fast courier as they said UPS takes a week and couldn't be expedited when sending it back so had to wait a week each time .. I never heard such horseshit in my life. Every courier can express deliver and they don't even bother.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I don’t have a Leica dealer anymore in Ireland so I would personally have to fly to buy and inspect them at this stage. I wouldn’t really want to have to lug boxes on a plane from Leica so it’s a nope from here on in. I’ll use the funds for a few nice holidays. They have just proven the rumours of their service is true. Very true.
Sl full frame. End of story. But the cl is a great PhD.. push here dummy..point and shoot cl. I'm old and raised on kchrome and dark rooms. Sl. If you know what your doing. .. my favorite pack was an m6, m3, 35 and 90 sumicrons a 21, and 20 kchrome 25 pro and 20 tri x.. This digital era has killed the art.
It’s a pity when you realize that your perception towards the perfect camera is becoming a minority. The will to pay for a small size and high quality system is losing ground toward FF. Now I need to wait for the feeling that this camera is not good enough for me. I hope this will not happen soon.
You wouldn’t be able to if like me you travel for 4 days with a 10kg limit. Yes if I travel in the UK and can fill the car but that’s why every gram counts for me..
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I have had the Sl Q and TL2 and CL. Tbh there is almost no difference in image quality between these cameras. The TL2 is a better travel camera for its in body charging and 32 gigs of RAM on board. The CL focuses faster and more reliably over the TL and it’s better for flash use. The SL was awesome but too heavy to be practical for travel where your walking around / hiking, the q was awesome for travel but often is not wide enough at least for me and say interiors of churches in France.
The CL is for me the best compromise for size and and functionality. It and the Fuji x100v are almost identical in size oddly enough with the 18 on it.
Thanks Paul, great insight. I always forget to give the TL some love, mostly as i've never used one so overlook them. Yes CL + 18mm is perfect for travel.
An excellent synopsis Matt. I always enjoy your rapid-fire presentations. Faff-free. I bought my SL (601) first ( to digitize my M-glass), then picked up the CL as a 24MP backup and travel camera. One salient point you didn't mention is the CL uses the newer 3-button interface, common on the M10/11, Q series and SL2. Besides the physical buttons, the Leica CL also has the newer menu GUI with touchscreen, which is a drastic improvement to the older SL. Totally agree with your conclusion. The SL has been a tremendous FF EVF value for the last couple of years and is a true workhorse. The CL is an amazing travel camera, more true to Oskar Barnack's original vision.
Thanks JK, ah yes I forgot to mention the "3 button newer menu" of the CL. I do enjoy that when I use that camera and i'm happ you like the rapid fire approach (it's my attemp to get people to watch more than 30-40% of a video!)
Matt, you've become "an institution" in sharing your photography knowledge and experience, DON'T STOP. Not only is it knowledge but even more so, the contagion of being a photographer. Your 15 min videos pack enough to make 115min videos of many other utubers. Thanks for doing what you are doing and if you are ever again somewhere in PL near Wroclaw, I'd love to buy you a coffee and pick your brain some more. Cheers.
Thanks Piotr! very kind. If you follow me at MrLeica.com I write in the monthly newsletter ( mrleica.com/free-newsletter/ ) where I will be travelling so if I come to Wroclaw we can try to meet if we cross paths!
I really like the concept of the CL. It was just too expensive as a value proposition - too expensive within the Leica line-up that is.
I'm sad the CL is being discontinued. I was hoping for a more appealing CL2 (weather sealing, IBIS).
The SL body is just too large. The bodies, the lenses. It's too large as a camera I would lug around most of the time. Panasonic got it right with the size in the S5. Sony got it right with their A7 line and E Mount has a lot of high quality, small fast primes. L Mount does not (exception are the Sigma contemporary primes for L mount).
I don't think there is any chance Leica will add a smaller SL body to the line up - it would not offer much of a benefit given how large the SL lenses are; they could not price it any cheaper without hurting their portfolio. I looked at the product shelf at the Leica store recently and confused the SL zoom lenses with Leica S medium format lenses, because they've put the lenses next to an S3 and the lenses matched the size of the body.
Think about this: Leica, the pioneer of small, portable cameras is doubling down on large, heavy, bulky cameras and lenses which are larger in size and weight than anybody else's products in that format. I think the way to look at the SL portfolio: its targeted competitors are medium format cameras, not other 35mm small frame format cameras (yes, I am using the correct term, "full frame" is not the original, correct term for the 35mm format, Leica invented 35mm format as "Kleinbild", which means small frame).
My Leica M bodies (M3, MP, M10) are as large as I am willing to go with a Leica body. A 35mm small frame camera should not be larger than a Sony A7, Panasonic S5 etc. - just my personal preference. I have no doubt the SL cameras are a joy to use - when you don't have to lug them around all day and you don't have to care about being candid that is.
The L-mount Alliance made the camera discount prices more acceptable since there were lenses from Lumix and Sigma.
It is a shame. I hope that the L2 joint enterprise will provide more options - especially something like an M with L-mount
I'm still interested in the Sigma fp L or fp until then. They are also more heavy duty than the CL.
Thanks TW, yes totally agree on SL lenses (I've seen them next to S lenses too!) SL with M lenses is better. I have no interest in fat SL lenses. Agree the small form of the M system for most photography works well and yes sorry I forgot to mention the end of the CL line. Will add to a future video.
Thanks - yes Sigma DG DN lenses are much more affordable if people need AF
I love my SL . Sometimes I wish, it was more compact. If they made a full frame CL, that would be awesome. Would you be interested to make a video about the sigma fp? I would love to watch that.
Thanks Julius, I do speak with Sigma UK occasionally so it might be possible. Stay tuned!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom You should borrow the Sigma 35/1.4 DG DN Art, it has a very nice rendering for portraits.
@@lattesweden thanks! Currently I have their f2 with me :)
Excellent video on 2 big winners.... I'll keep my CL as my small AF "go kit" as it does accept all my M, LTM and L lenses😊 and I 'll keep my SL2-S as my main AF kit. And I do not regret my M10P. And now for street photo I use my SL2S with a 28mm (Ultron or Summaron LTM) and sometime the TL18mm (APSC so 27mm) that make my SL2 even smaller, fast and sharp ...
Thanks Jerome! :)
Gret video, do you happen to know if the Leica SL maintains it's weather sealing when using sealed lenses from Panasonic or Sigma?
I think the SL has no weather sealing but check my SL v SL2 v SL2-S video.
The CL has a newer sensor which makes the photos look more like the SL2/Panasonics (which I prefer). The CL batteries are much cheaper and you can buy clones from Panasonic, which is suitable for traveling. The CL has the new user interface from the SL2, which is a hughe improvement imho. Overall you get a better IQ in the CL, better image quality and a smaller size. The only downside is the smaller viewfinder, and that some of the Aps-c lenses are much to big. I use the CL as a back up and travel camera, with the 18 mm and 23 mm, but mainly with full frame lenses. The new ff Sigma Dg Dn are awesome and fit very well.
Thanks Steve, ah yes I do like the CL interface. Great that you agree with my "Panasonic look" too. Yes the CL is king for a small Leica setup and agree third party batteries are fine (not a deal breaker).
Nice video. I will stick with my CL for now. I like crop sensors as I can carry smaller lenses and all my kit fits in a small camera bag meant for one SLR body and one lens. That includes a charger, flash and a small LED light! The image quality is exceptional and the camera is easy to use especially with manual lenses.
Thanks, yes i'm still deciding whether to keep mine as the CL is great at what it does, no question. Love the size!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I forgot the 23mm/35mm and 50mm that also fits in that bag. lol
I have swapped my M240 for an M10 now, but I still use my CL all the time! Can't see myself ever selling it, really. The lenses and image quality are just crazy good compared to the tiny size and light weight.
I really hope they change their minds about crop sensor cameras. If not, I'll probably get another CL or a TL2 before they start going up in price on the used market :-)
Thanks, yes they are amazing at what they do - CL!
I also have the SL (Typ 601) but for street, event, travel, landscape and architecture photography I slowly go back to my M8 and M9-P, they are simply more straight forward and easy to use with better image quality out of the box thanks to the CCDs and the great M lenses. Plus the M system is A LOT lighter and easier to carry around with a complete set of lenses.
M8 /M9 files are hard to beat for pure artistic reasons but I normally need something faster / better high ISO etc.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I normally don’t need more than ISO 640 and I never ran into trouble with the speed of the older Ms. Another plus is that people don’t recognise you as a serious photographer that wants to kill them when shooting a little silver M. The SL is too large and black for street photography, I simply don’t get any nice candid street scenes with this camera, focusing is also a lot slower.
@@Funktrainer agree M better for street. M doesn’t hide most of your face when taking photos so less scary.
I'd like to mention that the SL has really solid 4K video as well. The caveats are horrible rolling shutter, crop, and no log format. But the colors are absolutely gorgeous so if you get your WB and exposure right in camera, you can just edit and export and it will be absolutely stunning.
Thank you, I must try using it properly as haven't really used it. As you can tell from my videos I don't edit the footage (other that cut it down) so if the basic footage looks like it works for me.
Your example photos are so amazing. The Sigma 30mm DC DN you showed has character, more so than the TL 35 1.4 to me anyway. Not sure about the SL, but the SL2 is water resistant/proof, so that’s another reason to grab the bigger camera.
I use most of that Sigma F1.4 series of autofocus lenses on my CL. They are built nice and are perfect with the CL.
I use the F2.8 Sigma zoom too, has a good general wide end coverage.
Thank you! Join MrLeica.com to see more photos and in full res. The Sigma I show is the 24mm DG DN FYI but I know many love the 30mm
Yes I know they are very popular.
You showed the DC DN line up my eye just caught to 30mm
Thank you. I know what you mean by the colors. The CL colors are less accurate than the SL/SL2. I am on a trip and I decided to take the M10R and CL and left the SL2S at home so I agree with your recommendation. I dont think I will get rid of the CL. I like it so much. I ordered the 18mm TL lens. I can't wait to try it out for going on hikes or traveling about.
Thanks, yes the CL + 18mm is a killer combo for travel!
Working with a borrowed Sony A7ii now matching nicely my old Minolta MD lenses. It is too small and awkward for my hands, but it gets the job done. Manual focussing a vintage lens on a mirrorless camera just has something fun to it as well, and I like being able to see the B&W preview. Maybe when I get some nicer lenses I will look into the SL, that viewfinder sure is something special from what I remember!
Thanks Thomas, welcome to mirrorless! Yes it's very rewarding when you have a nice VF :)
If jumped from one Leica, to another and then another, it clearly indicates what it doesn't matter which camera was in use. I was going to get SL in addition to M-E 220, but realized what old 5D MKII does it well too and for less :)
Yes as long as you enjoy using the body, the lens in much more important (if the sensor files look OK). I like using Leica bodies.
Nice video. 👍
Sad to see the CL discontinued. But a full frame inside that body would be so nice…
Yes agreed!
our thoughts go out to the original SL and CL - SL being an SLR 135 film camera (full frame) and CL being a full frame 135 compact regular M-mount rangefinder camera developed in collaboration with Minolta that launched a couple matching compact M mount lenses. The Leica CL was sold as Minolta CL in parts of the world. No, the SL did not have Leica M robustness/reliability. The CL however was a very neat thing
Thanks JP, great point! I love the film advance of the old SL (I have it)(see those videos) and the size of my Leitz CL
I have the SL2S ,246 and a full CL kit. Just can`t get rid of the CL .I use it with my M lenses ,,,, nice and small and some extra reach . The SL2s was the biggest disappointment .Its heavy and the AF isn`t good enough for what I need .I only have two lenses for it . A Pany 70/200 and the 24/70 .The 24/70 gives me a useful range on the CL and today I`m going to see how the 70/200 performs on the CL. So apart from its lovely native lenses the Cl is also a very useful tele converter .
Great stuff! Yes I still love my CL too! Ticks all the boxes :)
Hi Matt, nice to hear from you again on Leica cameras and lenses. Just bought a brand new TL2 at a huge discount to pair with the tiny 18 mm Elmarit. Just for fun, I will try my 135 mm Tele-Elmar lens on it with the EVF.
Thanks Wilfred, I totallt forgot to mention the TL2 as the smallest camera in the video. Super compact with 18mm, you'll love it!
Why does Leica make the same mistake all over again? (It's almost as if history repeats itself.) Decades ago they discontinued the lovely and popular original (film) Leica CL in favour of the much larger and heavier Leica M5 and Leicaflex cameras, and the company almost went down the tubes! Now I keep seeing reports that they're discontinuing the brilliant (digital) Leica CL in favour of the grossly oversize and overweight Leica SL2 and SL2-S cameras (and their grossly oversize and overweight lenses) and Q2 cameras that, almost unbelievably for serious cameras, have a fixed lens. The current CL is simply the best camera Leica has ever made. Is it perfect? No, of course not. It's five or so years old and certainly could be improved (as per the SL-to-SL2 developments)---IBIS, weather sealing, higher resolution EVF, higher megapixel BSI sensor, and so forth. And, yes, it could have a full frame sensor. If the Leica Q2 and the Sigma FP cameras can sport full frame sensors, there's no reason why a Leica CL2 shouldn't have one. Just as the original Leica CL was pure joy to carry and use for film, the modern Leica CL is pure joy to carry and use today; and it is an unbelievable repeated stupidity for Leica to discontinue its CL camera line yet again, rather than move it forward with a new CL2 model and more of its superb lenses!
Thanks Arthur, great to see your strong support for the little CL. As mentioned I've used mine instead of M cameras I liked it so much. (Maybe don't watch my latest video, I bought a Q for the lens and to see what I can do with it). A nice weight but bulkier than the CL+18mm combo.
Hi Matt, great video, as always. I had a choice between the CL or the SL2, and I decided on the CL even though Leica will soon discontinue them. I'm a journalist and street photographer, so the lighter weight and much smaller size of the CL made the choice easy.
Thanks, yes the CL is hard to beat for size and the TL lenses are said to be optically close to their larger SL brothers. 35mm 1.4 TL is silly sharp!
Great content as usual, Matt! Thanks for this video, as it really hits home.
I love my CL (with grip and thumbsup) and plan to keep it as my travel/street camera (with Leica 21mm Elmarit f2.8 ASPH and vintage Summicron 40mm f/2), and I'm looking to get a used SL or SL2-S (perhaps SL2) as my main camera. I do mostly landscape, nature and astrophotography, so the SL format is much better suited for that type of work (remote shutter control, full frame sensor, etc).
The two-camera setup is surprisingly accessible when shopping the used market, and since both cameras work well with the same lenses, it seems like a great setup. I only shoot manual glass (Leica, Voightlander), so AF is not on my radar. The focus assist on the CL is excellent.
In time, I might replace the CL with an M10-R or base M10 (maybe an M-10D) to keep as my street/travel camera.
One thing is for certain: I'm never leaving Leica. I can't quit you. :)
Hi thanks! Sorry I missed this. Sounds like a great plan/ setup!
Very informative, clear, balanced, very helpful. Fantastic tone as well. Nice pictures
Thanks so much Jose!
Hi Matt, any chance you could review the Leica TL2?
Exactly what went through my mind. Im considering it but can't find a good review Matt like :)
I hope so. Just added a TL2 to pair with the tiny 18 mm Elmarit lens as a backup of my other Leica cameras. TL2 has a very unique design like a museum artwork despite its failure in the marketplace.
Nice idea. If I can get one to try I can give my view verses CL. I went for CL as I need the proper VF for my style of photography / how I work.
TL2 is great if enjoy using iPhone - super small and no EVF
They do look cool! If I can get one to test i'll make a video
Great video ! The viewfinder on both are absolutely lovely. I'm fortunate to own them both but if I were a professional I'm sure the SL or SL2 would be the choice.
Thanks! Agreed both a great. I'm splitting hairs with this but yes the SL feels more like a pro-tool vs holiday camera haha. I've used the CL happily for client work for years but I do like the fatter SL for it currently.
素晴らしい写真とコンテンツをありがとうございます。私もSLを使っています。CLはコンパクトで良いですね！常にカバンに入れておいても苦にならない。
Thanks! Yes CL is nice size :)
I have the CL and compensate for Bokeh by using F1.4 lenses with more shallow DOF, also helps cure lack of IBIS and slower
high ISO low light.
Matt, did you ever use a Contax 45mm F2.0 on a Leica via and adapter?
Also, how does an SL2-s compare to an SL ?
Yes I used the 35mm f1.2 at 0.5m the most on the CL for bokeh/DOF. No not tried the 45/2 sorry. See SL vs SL2S video :)
Brilliant review! Right now I'm happy with the Leica CL. The SL looks wonderful.....perhaps some day!
Thanks Lucy! CL is still the best for a nice small camera with great images.
The CL has such a great compact design, I hope they are coming up with a CL2.
It’s being discontinued per LEICA
They've officially discontinued the apsc lines as of May 2022.
However, Leica and Lumix are directly collaborating legally/commercially and technologically via L2 Technology, so there may be something in that range and size. We'll have to see.
Sadly it's already been discontinued. Sorry I forgot to mention in video.
Thanks yes, Sorry I forgot to mention in video.
Thanks for info!
Crazy question I’ve been hearing a Leica M with built in Evf and maybe ibis would you switch from the SL to the M if they built one curious
That was rumoured for M11 but never came. We still need the RF option but yes it would be a nice addition.
Matt - that was a super video. Thank you very much. I need to look for a second hand SL.
Thanks Richard, yes the SL is fantastic!
Matt, can you shoot this with monochrome setting in the viewfinder?
Yes I do with all digital cameras
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom so do I , I meant can this camera , I’m looking at picking up a used one
Yes can with CL, SL and S5
When I saw the title I assumed you were going to discuss the CL being discontinued. I think it's a shame, I'd been waiting around for an updated version and now Leica has squashed that idea. I think it's a nice, solid camera but it's fallen behind in some areas and I wouldn't pay their (new) asking price for 5 year old tech. Perhaps it's just not for me.
Thanks, yes i'm trying to decide whether to say goodbye to my own CL hence the title but I totally forgot to mentioned the discontinued info, sorry. I will cover in a future video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Nice, maybe speculate on the value of any older camera. I'd happily buy an old film camera but I'm reluctant to buy old digital. I used Nikon F3s professionally for 10-15 years - I've never kept a digital camera half that time because the tech changes so fast.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I’d keep the CL as a compact lightweight travel camera or an e.d.c.
@@kakman1958 fair point. Leica are different, people still buy the M8 now released in 2006! It’s a different breed. I just bought a 2015 nearly new Leica Q and my SL is the same year bought last year. These cameras are too expensive when knew but offer amazing user experience if wait a few years.
@@kakman1958 ..I’m scared to buy old electronic cameras but I love manual shutter ones, FE2 etc etc. I have 9 Nikon SLR I still enjoy.
SL2s vs CL .... i would, for my use case, take the CL. Vactaion photos without the weight.
CL for travel, SL for "proper photos" (for me) ..though I used the CL for all photos for 2-3 years and was happy.
Very clear explanation. To me, definitely the Leica cl
Thanks Frank! I gave the CL more love in last night's video!
The LUMIX 50mm f/1.4 is supposedly so good it’s considered a ‘reference’ lens. Have you ever used it?
I’ve not. Maybe I can try to get one to test in the future.
Another thing that is not so great by the SL (Typ 601) is the fact that it drains the battery completely within one to two weeks when left switched off. Annoying. The Ms don‘t do that.
It shouldn't, it sounds like you have a fault with the camera or battery. Mine are fine.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I don‘t think it is a fault with the battery. Maybe it is a fault with the firmware as I also have no EXIF information when choosing a lens from the manual list of R or M lenses. My batteries are almost new and hold charge very well when the camera is on. Can you tell me which firmware version you have installed and if you have GPS turned on permanently?
@@Funktrainer turn your GPS off I think. I use latest firmware. Make sure you turn economy / sleep modes on. Mine powers off after the shortest time (1min or 30sec) so I’m even if switch says ON battery still full a week later as in sleep mode.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom So you are on firmware version 3.8? I also have the energy saving mode on and have the feeling that the battery is drained more when the power switch is in the OFF state.
Strange, my Hasselblad H3DII doesn‘t drain the battery when turned off and it has also a GPS module attached which I use all the time.
Maybe the SL is too much tech for Leica.
Matt. What flash works on SL.
I use Godox system lights (see my various flash videos) - buy Nikon fit Godox and they work on all Leica.
Once again a great review. To the point.
Thanks! I try to keep most of my videos shorter and mostly info (excluding the very early ones!)
I k now color is subjective, but I actually preferred the CL images as far a color!!!
Thanks Brian, yes there is no right wrong answer. The CL has the "new" Leica colours the same as SL2 and some Lumix i'm told. (SL is older camera*)
I think Leica already said goodbye to the CL/TL Series recently. I still love my M Cameras, but I love the film Ms much more than my digital M10-P.
Thanks yes I still love film cameras the most and yes Sorry I forgot to mention the end of the CL in video.
worth keeping the CL (travel and it's a "teleconverter") in my opinion.
Yes I still have my CL. I'll probably take on the next trip for the size.
Matt I am just hoping Leica will make smaller and more compact SL.
Me too!
Over the course of nearly 60 days I just returned 3 brand new M-A's back because of dust in the viewfinder straight out of the box. Was told the replacement would be specifically checked by their technicians before sending out again. Their technicians must be blind -Never again - Luxury brand with dogshit QC - Refunding 15K - 35mm summilux and two bodies. The dream to own a Leica for 15yrs has just been crushed and all thanks to their absolutely disgraceful service. They couldn't give a toss - Never once with Canon/Olympus/Fujifilm have I experienced such shite from a manufacturer at a fraction of the cost. Glad now I've seen when they are like to deal with and how incompetent they are at correcting flaws.
Sorry to hear that. Leica's loss. I'm sure you got unlucky but in your position I would feel the same way 100%
I'll stick with my Ricoh GRIII/X. At least the Japanese are competent enough to fix an issue if it arises and have the QC to go with it. Never again
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom 15K Euro and no one reaching out to apologise or personally contact me to right the situation. Absolutely disgraceful from such so called "Luxury" brand. So 15K is nothing to them.. and I was going to spend another possible 6k in the future. No fast courier as they said UPS takes a week and couldn't be expedited when sending it back so had to wait a week each time .. I never heard such horseshit in my life. Every courier can express deliver and they don't even bother.
@@powderedtoastman3093 yes I’ve dealt with Manchester and Mayfair and both good with me
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I don’t have a Leica dealer anymore in Ireland so I would personally have to fly to buy and inspect them at this stage. I wouldn’t really want to have to lug boxes on a plane from Leica so it’s a nope from here on in. I’ll use the funds for a few nice holidays. They have just proven the rumours of their service is true. Very true.
I will try SL and CL
The VF on both are amazing. If you can try with MF M lenses do as they are both great at this.
Sl full frame. End of story. But the cl is a great PhD.. push here dummy..point and shoot cl. I'm old and raised on kchrome and dark rooms. Sl. If you know what your doing. .. my favorite pack was an m6, m3, 35 and 90 sumicrons a 21, and 20 kchrome 25 pro and 20 tri x..
This digital era has killed the art.
Thanks Carlos! I still enjoy film even if i'm behind with my developing. I'm glad you enjoy them too!
Ryanair appearing on a Leica camera review, not judging, I’d travel in a bathtub if it meant I could afford a Leica 😂
Haha I can’t afford Emarites and Leica. Keeping it real over here! :) Love Ryanair! (I can then afford to travel!)
It’s a pity when you realize that your perception towards the perfect camera is becoming a minority.
The will to pay for a small size and high quality system is losing ground toward FF.
Now I need to wait for the feeling that this camera is not good enough for me. I hope this will not happen soon.
Keep smiling Yoram, I didn't say I was selling the CL or it was a bad camera. Still the best small Leica camera!
All these weight comparisons seem silly. I just carry them all.
You wouldn’t be able to if like me you travel for 4 days with a 10kg limit. Yes if I travel in the UK and can fill the car but that’s why every gram counts for me..
i know that fealing i sold all my camera and now i shoot only with leica m4 ;3 Im amateur ;3
If I did that I’d keep my M3!
I traded my CL for an SL today!
Congrats Chris!