Christ Church Rampant: How I survived the grooming & abuse of Doug Wilson's cult - Lorena Hieronymus
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2024
- Today I spoke with Lorena Hieronymus, who grew up in the Christ Church cult in Moscow, Idaho, under Doug Wilson, but ultimately escaped from that group, as well as the broader cult of Christianity.
We touched on many topics including:
• How the Christ Church cult aims to take over Moscow, Idaho, and beyond, for their particular brand of Christianity.
• Seeing racism woven into the Christ Church culture through being taught that blackness is the "mark of Cain," that slavery was a good thing for many slaves, and that white men are in charge.
• The dynamic that once you join Christ Church, it's almost impossible to get out of the cult.
• The stigma against anyone who is not part of the Christ Church, even if you are a Christian.
• How women in this ultra-misogynistic patriarchal cult are groomed to believe that they should be silent, disempowered domestic servants who are subservient to male leadership.
• How Christ Church, and especially Doug Wilson, uses fear as a tactic to brainwash the congregation, especially women.
• Being taught as a woman that you should never turn down your husband sexually and that there is no such thing as marital rape because your body belongs to him.
• How the Christ Church cult takes away autonomy of body and thought.
• How people in Christ Church don't seem to seriously question Doug Wilson, despite endless red flags.
• The danger of having structures of leadership and submission that protect the power of men at the expense of women, especially in cases of abuse.
• Being taught that a woman's body is inherently a stumbling block that causes men to sin.
• Being brainwashed to believe that you are worthless and worthy of shame.
• How women are treated as property in the Christ Church community, and how a woman gets passed from her father to her husband when she gets married, always remaining under the authority of the head of the household.
• Being taught that what matters is not your happiness, but your obedience -- to the Yahweh and Jesus characters, to the church elders, and to your father or husband.
• How Doug Wilson intentionally uses nasty, hateful language to trigger those who disagree with him, in order to instill shame and fear in people, especially liberal Christians, feminists, and the LGBTQ community.
• How people in Christ Church are shunned and excommunicated if they go against the church authority or culture.
• How men strongly benefit from the ultra-patriarchal system of a cult like Christ Church.
• Dealing with trauma from growing up in the Christ Church cult, and Christianity in general, but eventually reclaiming her identity, healing, and becoming an advocate for abuse victims.
• After deconversion, getting over the fear of hell, moving past the feelings of worthlessness, learning to be truly happy, and choosing the path that she wanted, not one that was dictated to her.
• Realizing, during deconstruction, that the New Testament heavily copies from the book of Enoch, many other intertestamental books, and the works of Homer.
• Admitting that the Yahweh character is portrayed in the Bible as a severely abusive narcissist.
• Choosing the path of courageously speaking up against abuse.
• Giving the next generation the gift of autonomy, of both their body and of their thought life and worldview.
• Forgiving Christians for the trauma they have inflicted on us, and thriving despite how much they and their mythology have hurt and continue to hurt us and our society.
Thanks to Lorena for sharing her story and helping others escape and heal from the abuse of the Christ Church cult and from Christianity.
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Dig deeper:
Examining Doug Wilson and Moscow, Idaho FB group & IG page:
/ examiningmoscow
/ examiningmoscow
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Check out Lorena's interview on MythVision:
• I Escaped Doug Wilson'...
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A recent Vice article that is worth reading:
www.vice.com/e...
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Tim may be reached by email at: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
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--Tim
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Ending music by Eyal Raz, "Friends"
• Friends
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I’m so happy for Lorena. My daughter was repeatedly abused and traumatized and did not survive the severe PTSD she suffered. So many in church had the belief SHE was to blame for acting out as a result of the PTSD. Prayer, deliverance and all that crap did not help her at all, it only added to her sense of failure. I was deconverting before she died but I wish with all my heart I had been further along in the process so I could have better helped her. It is encouraging to hear Lorena has built a happy, fulfilling life for herself before it was too late.
Thank you for your comment. I'm sorry for the loss you endured. And you can make a difference in the lives of other people by sharing your deconversion story.
Can you imagine being this next evolutionary stage of stupid. You were trying to help her how? Reassuring her that she’s going to disappear when she dies? Actual question. Do you have any brain cells operating currently?
I'm sorry you lost your daughter.💕
Lorena is a pillar of courage and strength. Big respect to her for speaking out.
Thank you, Tim and Lorena. Thank you especially, Lorena: I know that speaking out against the abuses under Doug Wilson comes at a cost.
Likewise -- thank you for what you do too. Hoping some people will be able to see past the lies and escape.
Tim 💖love how you are teaching ur kids, esp the girls, autonomy n agency! You are empowering them to have respect for their body and their brain! What better way for a dad to protect his kids?!! Soooo much better than we were taught decades ago. thx for all ur great work!
I applaud Lorena for her bravery in coming forward. I am a Christian and it is realities like this why I won’t step foot in 99% of churches in America. The hatred of women by “Christian” men is rampant. They twist scripture to continue abusing and it is beyond disgusting, it’s criminal. Many of these men need to be in prison for life.
I feel sorry for the children of Moscow. Caught between the Mormon and Christ Church cults and both of them antisocial and backward patriarchies.
Wow. Just wow. Lorena and Tim. I'm so moved by your conversation. You're both wonderful people to be on the internet standing up against the White supremacist, patriarchal, misogynistic, fear-mongering, abusive, tyrannical, and Christian nationalist bullies. It's a conversation by conversation transformation that we have to keep having to stop them from ruining all of our planet. Keep speaking up both of you. Will do the same over here. Thank you for showing the way. Very grateful you both escaped and are doing what you're doing. Sending lots of luck and love your way that your paths are smooth and happy. 🙆♀️👏⭐🍀🤸🏾♂️♥️
"If you don't straighten up and fly right you go on a prayer list and that's not a place you want to be." Perfect. I think this holds in very many denominations.
Great video. I can relate so much to your guest. I also think Tim is a great father by teaching his daughters autonomy in body and in mind.
“I haven’t read the book.”
“I read a few quotes from the book and it seems he’s saying…”
“They teach black skin is the mark of Cain”
Bro, this lady is epitome of mental health.
Here’s what she meant to say, “I lied because I sinned and Christ Church called me to repent. When I wouldn’t repent, they were patient with me, and I hardened my heart further. So, they excommunicated me in hopes I would come back, just like scripture tells church leaders to do, and so I’m now showing my true non-Christian colors. So my only goal now is to hate them and flaunt my sin 😊”
#legit
Love when Doug’s little fans boys come you little Christian boy don’t worry Doug gave you a gold star for your comment you brave brave little boy
Exactly. Nothing of substance. Just blind accusation. Poor girl. Hope she finds her way back.
Thank you for your bravery Lorena. Honestly, how is this any different than all we are hearing about the Church of Scientology?
The kirkers are a lot like mormons and jehovah's witnesses
Moscow, ID is such a cute little town. I enjoyed my time there visiting University of Idaho. Oh, the things you don’t know!
Hi, would you please elaborate? Did you attend University there? Were you part of the church? Just curious. Thank you. What don't we know?
Now known to millions.
I,m a ex Jehovah Witness now a born again Atheist and since I left Jehovah I've been having a devil of a time with Satan and loving it. Justin porter ex jw ❤️
The way way she depicts women reminds me of the movie, Stepford Wives.
Great discussion. Lorena was, and is a very brave and talented person to speak out against this bullshit (christian faith and mind control). I recognise parallels and similarities in the evangelical church I attended many years ago, even in the UK. Thanks to you both.
Thank you to both of you. Brave and gentle. Glad you're getting healthier and healthier every day. :-)
I would love to come on your show. I went to CC in the late 90's and experienced a lot of abuse, now reject Doug Wilson, but I remain a Christian, and have a similar yet in some ways very different take.
Hi, that would be appreciated, I would definitely like to hear and share your story.
Feel free to add me as a friend and message me on FB: facebook.com/timandjuliemills ... or my email is: harmonicatheist@yahoo.com
Also, FYI, I have another DW/CC video coming out today.
Thanks! --Tim
Ooooo really good topic. That guy really needs to be taken down
Wow. That’s a dark list.
Cults usually eventually destroy themselves. Scientology is even starting to crack…it took quite a while, but it will happen. Unfortunately many lives ruined whether it’s through abuse or end times, Jim Jones kind of end
Same here in Australia..Hillsong lead pastor is going to trial for concealing sexual Abuse (pedophilia) for decades..Didn't Christ say "what's hidden in darkness will come out into the light"?
Yes they do. I followed a religious cult in the 1980’s and (Roy Masters - Foundation of Human Understanding) in Oregon. They thought he was going to take over Grants Pass Oregon. He had a school, several businesses in the town, a 300-acre ranch that he used slave labor to maintain, and he founded Talk Radio Network, once the 2nd largest syndicator of conservative talk radio shows in the United States. Everyone was afraid of how big he was going to get. Today he’s nothing but a footnote. His family mismanaged TRN and destroyed it, and he died of Covid last year. Everything he tried to build went down the toilet. Christ Church is not going to take over, ever.
@@LindaMethod we must be vigilant. Just because group didn't make it, it doesn't mean they're not learning and adapting from other failures. The failure is actually make the remaining cults more powerful as they have the possibility of not repeating the other mistakes. I think the most important thing is to keep religion out of government. The Constitution is a secular document. Christian nationalists are lying about our foundation. We must vote for the Democrats because the Republican party has been taken over religious fundamentalists. And that is the most dangerous part. I don't agree that cults will just implode. I hope others take this warning seriously.
I think they're dangerous. And it's part of our civic duty to take deliberate action to make sure cults don't infiltrate our government. Local state and federal. Keep them out of our secular government.
They can last pretty damn long; mormons and seventh day adventists are still going strong centuries down the line.
Such Courage. Thank You✌️
Is that the same Doug Wilson that Christopher Hitchens debated on UA-cam. I imaging it’s not because that’s a common name.
It is.
@@HarmonicAtheist jaw drop. I have to go back and watch again knowing this. I wonder if Hitchens knew at the time. Can’t emphasize enough the work you former theists are doing, speaking out. Theists don’t listen to life-long atheists like myself because I’ve never been part of the club
@@HarmonicAtheist If Christopher Hitchens knew what Doug Wilson was teaching regarding "the black man is cursed with the mark of Cain", I'm sure Wilson would've been more crushed as he was in their debate🤔
I honestly believe Doug Wilson’s whole life now is a pedantic flailing at the fact that he got his ass kicked by hitches so thoroughly
@@billkeon880 It is interesting. The life long atheists don’t have the juicy stories so y’all don’t get included as much lol
But it’s not a conservative town. It’s a liberal society, it’s diverse. There’s a thriving drag community and LGBTQ+ people here are well-supported and loved. Sorry but no, Moscow is not conservative! It’s a college town, it leans a lot more liberal than conservative. And it always will.
Literally! Every store has a boy dressed like women and painted nails. Moscow is just as liberal as California. I live and shop here daily.
5:30, maybe you are unaware, but Wilson is literally using this month, "No quarter, November," to sell Canon Press's new book by Stephen Wolfe calling for Christian Nationalism BY NAME. They aren't using a euphemism but just flat out owning the label "Christian Nationalism."
Not a whole lot different than the proclamations made by atheist and humanist orgs. And for the record, most don't Christians outside of "cultdom" are against Christian nationalism because we're against a "theocracy". If one assumes a broad push for Christian nationalism (aka "theocracy"), which denomination is to be the leader? European theocracies were not "Christian" nations. They were nations under the power of a specific denomination or church.
@@hoystonholmes1482 In the video he asks her if she thought Wilson and Christchurch are Christian Nationalists, and I was just pointing out that there's really no question here because Wilson is happily accepting that label for his group himself.
And I agree that most Christians oppose this. It's really just theonomy merged with ethnic-nationalism and very few Christians are even theonomists.
@@michaelward1341 My apologies. I think I was aligning your comment with the harmonic atheist's reference to Christianity as a whole being a cult, apparently in the equivalent of this suggested cult in Idaho. I'll put it this way. Is it possible for the U.S. to become a "theocracy"? Yes! Because it happened in early European history. But...I would say highly unlikely at this point. Is it possible for the U.S. to become an atheistic totalitarian society? Yes. We have history, and the modern era that shows it's possibility with nations like China, and NK. But also unlikely at this point.
@@hoystonholmes1482 no problem. I agree with you.
Michael and Hoyston - I hope both of read Andrew L. Seidel books "the founding myth" and "American crusade" or at least watch his many podcasts and interviews about his books. The threat of Christian nationalism is here. It's eroding our culture, our strength, our empathy, and the possibility of humanity itself. It must be stopped. It's no joke. It's not just going to go away. And quibbling over the fact that some Christians aren't as crazy isn't helping. Harmonic atheist might have mentioned that a lot of Christianity is a cult. And instead of saying that's not true, acknowledge that it is true. A lot of it is a cult. Okay some of it isn't, but that's not what he's saying. A lot of it is. And the parts that are deeply damaging and dangerous to individuals and our country must be stopped.
Who’s the theology of black spearing the Mark of Cain resides in fundamentalist Mormonism… Aside from hearsay, would you be able to provide proof via primary sources that this is something that was taught by new Saint Andrews?
I never attended NSA. It was something my Sunday school teacher said to us in Sunday school when I was around kindergarten age.
@@lorenahieronymus2762 So another words, you’re saying that this was taught in Sunday school at Christ Church that blacks received the mark of Cain?
Are you doing ok? It’s been a month since you last posted?
Hi, yes, thanks for checking in! Life's been crazy, sad, and a bit traumatic recently. Trying to get back to a sense of normalcy. Thanks for your patience.
The Mormons said this also.
Dougie is well known for plagiarism
I didn’t know such things were happening in the most powerful and advanced country on the planet. Rest of the world specially developing world thinks American women do not put up with such crap. They have all the freedom they want.
Weird, sounds like Hollywood
Re the Slaughters in Joshua and the Flood in Genesis - Some were Nephilims half human, half fallen angels; giants, DNA corrupted. That is why God wanted them dead, they weren't real people! Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days-and also afterward-when the sons of God (Fallen Angels) went to the daughters of humans and had children by them.
And then the tooth fairy came by and magically turned them all into elves who then got killed by Darth Vader but got brought back to life by Thor.
@@HarmonicAtheist
I found this video as I have had involvement in a sister church outside of USA and have had my suspicions of Doug as they use his teaching materials. A lot of what I suspected has been confirmed in this video. The problem with Christianity is the churches. Thank you for your wonder interview!
My story:
About 8 years ago I didn't want to believe in God though not being a real Christian I alway sensed that God was real. I came across the documentary Zeitgeist, it opened my eyes to the fact that the world is ruled by a very few. The main point being; they demonstrated that Jesus isn't real; that was exactly what I wanted to hear so I digested it with glee. "Cool there are no consequences in life just do as one pleases". I loved it, sort of. A while later after rewatching it I realised it was a combination of lies and truths. Through other sources I also realised that the Devil is real so Jesus has to be real. What was correct in Zeitgeist is that the world is run by a few as mentioned above but what they failed to say was through Satan the Devil. He is deceiving us all and the last 2 years has demonstrated that! Thanks for reading!
@@fortheloveofgod180 The problem with Christianity is its severe lack of critical thinking. Cherry-picking conspiracy material is not a pathway to knowledge. Verifiable evidence is.
Another situation where someone experiences the havoc of being in a religious cult, and thus assigning it to all Christianity and/or Abrahamic religion. There seems to be a popular view that if religion were removed from American society, everything would be "better". What makes them think it would be better than any totalitarian nation like China and North Korea? And no, nations like New Zealand and Scandinavian nations with a statistical decline in church attendance are not atheist nations.
Not even close to accurate on several counts. A religion whose book espouse genocide, land theft, slavery, beating slaves, genital mutilation, child brides, stoning, misogyny, cannibalism, blood magic, and more is a horrific foundation and worldview. Removing it is exactly what this world needs.
@@HarmonicAtheist The nations you're referring to that you claim were victims of genocide, and had land stolen in the bible were seeking to have the Israelites removed from the face of the earth (similar to today). If we (the U.S.) were nuked by another nation, should we sit back and let it happen? If after we drooped the bomb on Japan, if they kept attacking, we may have had to commit genocide. Do you agree on that point? Slavery? For starters, are you against volunteer servitude, which is sometimes to this day an alternative to imprisonment? Beating slaves? No! The bible doesn't condone beating a slave at all. The penalty for beating a slave to death was "death". Controlled "beatings" are done today in nations like Singapore, which is not under any human rights violation that I know of. The "beating" you're referring to in Exodus was a "controlled" punishment with a specific type of instrument, and limitations on where one could be hit. Why do you think the "rod" was even mentioned if "beating" a slve was supposedly so permissible? Why, by the way, do you think the slave owner was given a "day or two" before being judged on the matter? Have you ever even thought about it? Misogyny? Ridiculous. Cannibalism? Give me a break. Genital mutilation? Are you talking about circumcision? If you are, are you suggestion there's no health benefit for circumcision? Child brides? For the most part the argument against this seems to suggest "rape", which is strictly forbidden in the bible. The brides may have been deprived of finding their soul mates. But the idea was to provide for them. Not abuse them.
China actually has one of the largest christian populations in the world.
And its not even the only religion in the country.
Oh, the beatings of slaves was not just random beatings, but 'controlled' with 'specific instruments'. Ah, that's okay, then. Erm, and what about the 'slaves' bit?
@@bellezavudd You have no argument with me there. Actually, there are probably far more Christians than any source you may have gleaned from because probably most Christians are underground (the underground or house church). If you've referred to statistics from sources like the CIA World Fact book, the stats won't be accurate because each country has to provide their own information, and there's no real way they
can count Christians in the underground. They have government run churches (the 3 self church) as a means to control Christianity. They couldn't stop Christian conversions in spite of severe persecution, so government controlled churches became a means to "control". And yes, there are other religions in China, and they're all persecuted as well. I'm assuming your statement suggests that since China has one of the largest Christian populations, Christians aren't persecuted. Well, in spite of their claim to religious tolerance, it's not true. For instance, are you not aware of Chinese persecution of Muslims? Surly you must
least be aware of their persecution against Tibetan Buddhists.
The way in which religion is used as a means of control reminds me of "The Book of Eli" , Purpose of Bible the Book ua-cam.com/video/A2ttSv7I9HY/v-deo.html