Small incident (with explication) between Wang Chuqin and Truls Moregard
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Small incident (with explication) between Wang Chuqin and Truls Moregard.
Truls Moregard vs Wang Chuqin | MS | WTT Star Contender European Summer Series 2022 (Finals)
Small incidents in the final game!
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Wang’s Chinese nick name is “Big Head” 大头 for a reason 😂
He looks like me 🤣
Wang Chuqin is sometimes shielding the point off contact with his head and sometimes he doesn't
That's how Wang's nicknamed "big head" as a child, and still is known by this nickname.
@@ignatiussun3325 lmao
My biggest complaint with Wang Chuqin's serve is that he contacts the ball OVER the table/inside the white line. This is obvious in the replays.
Yes, it looks that most of his serves are played over the table. Watching his games I was surprised why a referee does not indicate this as a foul.
He also doesnt really throw the ball up anywhere high enough. Just lifts His Arm and "releases" the ball from his palm
@@theodoralambert7999 Think you are right. Without slow motion it looks like he's serving over the table but if you watch the the replay carefully it looks like only the after motuon of his arm is over the table. Point of contact is behind the line
Not really. If you see the vertical line of the tossed ball, it will fall to the floor behind white line of table
@@darekk7459you would not be surprised if you knew you did not see clearly. Comments of other people here did good explanation and that is exactly the reason why referees did not indicate that’ll foul. Referees know far more than you.
He’s face covers the ball
Coach Em Rat Thich never makes Click Bait…never!!!! Always deep insight and analysis… Thank you Coach!
You sir are about 12 IQ.
the ball definitely travelled along the side of his face and just reappeared around his neck area, this is the yoshimura serve 🤣
Wang's serve looks pretty normal to me.
Please respect the qualified umpires you internet umpires
whatever it takes to beat this guy. Truls general bad sportsmanship is fast becoming legendary!..
Wow, that's sportsmanship. You must be popular training partner..
Some of his serves are questionable, but are not blatant faults. Nevertheless, it's up to the umpire to ask the player to make the ball more visible
I can give you 3 reasons why theyre definitely blatant faults...
نام على بطنك
Truls Moregard is a festival kid. Kicking the ball, raging, fooling around, talking, etc. - all his character. Super player, with brilliant hands - but mentally, he's not the strongest.
Completely disagree, the way he's turned around matches like Lim Jonghoon in the WC and more the previous tournament, shows his excellent mental abilities.
@@pedness hahaha win = strong mental ability? hahahah - no!!!!!
Perfect coaching vision - break the rhythm and play with a completely different base - pro hand + pro coach - but not so strong mental ability... 3/3 4-7 last set do I kick the ball? very strong... hahaha... hahaha
TM - he has very good hands and he can play not only in one way - really great - but mentally he is a child
@@-beno- Mentally the toughest kid I've ever seen in that case. Look at Lin Gaoyuan, who's one of the most technical players in the world, he lost in the finals because of his lack of determination and ability to handle pressure, where as Truls has shown time and again that he never suffers during pressure, he rather excels and pulls in next gear. If this is not strong mentality, I'm not sure what is.
It's not only that you win, but how you win.
Hidden or not depends on where you view it
the rules arent enforced that consistently anyway, because its not feasible. if its apparent to an absurd degree, players will be called. the whole serve rules are a bit weird, i dont know how one would fix this issue
Bad sportsmanship on the part of Moregard. He was losing and wanted to upset and distract Wang Chuqin. Moregard is known to throw tantrums when things aren’t going his way. BTW, there are always 2 umpires sitting opposite each other at every match.
Hopefully the other Chinese player will teach him a lesson in the final.
I agree, Wang's serves were hard to see and sometimes they looked too close to the table as well. The umpire should've called it out somewhere in the match and give Wang more explanation on why the serve is unfair
that is the main problem i've noticed with wang's serve. he is definitely over the table on contact on some of the serves. sometimes the ball is obscured by his head but we don't have a clear camera angle to know if point of contact was obscured. there is no reason that ittf or wtt or whoever cannot implement more clear rules and the use of technology to enforce the rules on service.
at least they gave each other the handshake and talked ☺️
The “serve” not hidden by head” is a very difficult rule to follow. Especially if you are a very quick moving player. Like shown in previous videos most Chinese players will move into next ball position while serving (step to the middle). So while the ball is in downward motion risk of being covered by head or shoulder. Not sure what to do about it to be honest.
I think the serve at 2:10 is not OK as can be seen in that slowmo.
Plus now imagine that from Truls perspective it´s even worse than the camera angle.
I´m not exactly sure of the exact rule right now, but I would prefer if the ball was visible all the time from the throw to the contact point and not just for a milisecond of the contact (if that).
I also think ...the service is fine
Small accident does not change the final result
It’s sad at this level, the finals of a star contender event, that issued of illegal serves are still present. The umpire shouldn’t of been scared to call it out, because it’s unfair for Truls otherwise, and Wang should’ve known better than to use cheap tricks in a finals. Sadly umpires these days are always too scared to call out when need be, except attitude apparently. If they were more persistent on illegal serves, these issues would be less frequent.
watched it in slow motion. WCQ's contact point is visible only if Moregard stood at the right half of the table, which means WCQ's serve is legal. If Moregard still can't see the contact point at the right corner of the table, then WCQ's serve should be called a foul.
Hmm not exactly. The ball must be visible the WHOLE time - not just right on contact. This was not the case in the slow motion. Regardless Wang deserved the win.
Yeah thats just wrong logic and simply not true what youre saying.
Easy. Where is the ball at (exactly) 2:10?
I have had games where the referee has more prominence than the players themselves and they are able to take you out of the game and then you will lose. It is unfortunate since there are many players who serve illegally in theory and they are not told anything because of who they are if you are not known and you reach important finals you will pay because of the referee, without a doubt I have experienced it
I cannot see the ball for part of the path, as his head blocks the ball briefly. I can clearly see the contact with the ball. He tosses it slightly towards him. Is this illegal?
Chinese team has very strict training. I would be laughing if you tell me that a top player like Wang cannot get the service right. Viewers from different angles could draw different conclusions so it's better to leave the judgement to the Umpire.
unlike every other player Wang Chuquin's body is inside the white line of the table,so,high probability that the ball contact of his serve is inside that white line..because of his body structure ang height,he can easily hide that contact.
Left handers serve is hard to see by nature of a righthander. Because the righthander is used to standing in his forehand dominant position on the left side of the table. Left hander serving pendulum is hard to see. However i think the inverse is also true. A right handers pendulum serve can be done to make it hard for the lefthander. I think right handers should practice adjusting standing position to a little more to the center of the table to counter this and vice versa.
I agree, if the rule exists it must be applied, otherwise it is very much subject to the will of the referee, and players can be harmed or benefited and the match can be seriously affected. But if the rule is difficult for referees to observe it should be removed or the ITTF should provide tools so that it can be applied accurately.
👍
wang chuquin is a talented player and i think he dont need to play dirty for to win the game . Apparentelly he dont learn the lesson when his own asociation punish him.
we must understand that TT is basically a sports of "the art of deceiving"...WC was with thousands scrutiny of refs/umpires, his assoc, his being #2 in the world etc. it's a wonderfully done stroke of served that an opponent was deceived by a fraction of sec. 💪✌🤔
Service is fine! Contact point can be seen. Sorry Trulie
Only contact point is not enough:
"From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of
the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be
hidden from the receiver by the server or his or her doubles partner or by
anything they wear or carry"
At 2:04 there is a frame where the ball is hidden from the camera view by WCQs head, and that camera is further on the right, thus it should be even harder for Truls to see the ball.
But well, everyone up there has serves that are at least in the grey zone, if not illegal
Of course it's visible to the camera man, he is all the way to the right.
Without knowing what the complaint about the serve was , you can see the ball was was contacted inside the back line over table. Maybe the referee couldn’t see that from his chair.
I guess point should be given to truls
Because ball n bat point not visible to opponent
The rule are like that. It doesn’t matter if Moregard always sees ball or not. The main and first thing that the umpire has to be sure the service is legal. From this match the umpire was sure the service of WCQ was legal. It means the opinion of Moregard is wrong. These are the rules.
I think is better when a left hand player plays against right hand player the umpire should be sit the opposite side, so could see how the both players servers. Is it a easy, right?
The serve in this case looks like got hidden by the server's body while bending down to serve. Whether intentional or pure accident is open to interpretation but onus is on the server to do clean serves and leave no doubt.
Wcq obviously serves illegally, like many other players, both on amateur and pro level.
The umpire did a bad job for not calling the fault service, but the position of the umpire is horrible, so they often aren't able to tell if the serve is hidden or not, since the angle is nowhere the same as the opponents of the server.
good point. the ump can't see anything from his position in this case.
Service was not legal
Refs should have a talk session with players like in boxing before the match starts. At that time the refs should explain to the players what serves or behaviors he will call as faults ahead of time so that the players can mentally adjust and prep their serves before the game even starts. Refs should also explain the tolerances and limits hed be looking for to call a fault. So that any fault call within the match will not affect players mentality.. and if the ref does call a fault its totally the players fault by then.
Truls has a point. It is like when you serve and blocking the ball with your other arm and the contact is under your other arm. Imagine (when you are right handed) , then you toss the ball, and you don't move away your left hand, and then the ball contacts under the left hand. And the Question is, is it legal when you serve, and you don't move away your left hand? (if you are right handed).
His shoulder might have blocked the view😊
I think if we have expensive machine to test for illegal clue . We should have two camera ( with zoom in capacity ) put on end of each court Each player will have a challenge call for illegal service each game .If the player wins a challenge, the player can have one more challenge . After two illegal service , the player lose the whole game . I bet if you adopt this challenge . The server will make sure even the bat can see the ball on the service. It is just the ITTF is not progressive on enforcing rule.
Al tal moregard ese,,mas le vale a su entrenador darle unas lecciones de educación y deportividad,,en todos los partidos tiene problemas ,y busca bronca,,en mis tiempos de jugador,me encontré con varios "jugadores" que eran igual que él,en cuanto van perdiendo,empiezn a montar numeritos para descentrar al rival,,malos deportistas,,
Actually there's something wrong with Wang Chu's service, I hope he fix it
Illegal, his head covers the ball a short moment before contact.
Stop blaming the opponent if you cant read the serve. Maybe have to brush up in that area. Never blame this,blame that and be that sore loser!
It seems to he was hiding with head if not body considering relative position from left and right handed which makes the serve illegal . If its deliberate wang chuqin might get points but lost true sportsmanship which is not uncommon in professional ping pong , umpire knows that but ignore it since they don't want to subject of backfire especially when players represent country not club. Some of the country not very gentleman in nature and even gentleman country sometimes get retaliation. I know many incidents like this but I don't want to disclose it , you will be surprised
The ball is not visible in this case and for me this is not in accordance with the rules.
From my point of view this is cheating.
I see more and more people from the Chinese region who make such a serve, so that the opponent can not see how the ball is played.
This should be stopped.
In crucial moments Wang's serve was not legit.. and the umpire made a mistake of not calling it out.. that's all that I have to say.
I wish you would say more because I love your accent.
wang chuqin is world No. 1 thanks to his illegal serve.... when he serves, he is sure to score...so, his job is to take 1 point from his opponent by receiving the opponent's serve... don't no matter which player in the world in his situation would be Number 1, no referee sanctions him compared to other players who often are....
that serve was hidden, totally illegal.
I am really confused, what do you actually want to say in this video? The title say EXPLANATION! Where is that EXPLANATION? And people opinions are always different, what's the point of asking about it, however good luck 👍
Muchos jugadores hacen saques ilegales y no hay quien lo controle
ban forehand serves...only backhand serves😅
I think this "explication" video was really bad. Mostly just repeating what we can already hear and see 😞
the ball isnt visible while falling down behind the head
Wang is a professional, he hides the ball on purpose, no doubt about that. he should have been sanctioned for that.
судя по видео, В-Ч Ц ,вообще подавал над столом и вдобавок прикрывал момент подачи.Почему судья не судил ?
for sure an illegal serve i hope the umpires start being more strict with hiding the ball
For me wang serve with an intentionnally hidden to opponent..
Its all the empite Fault.....
love u pingsunday, keep doin what youre doin
you have bad taste then.
Yeah looks like it could be blocked , and the Umpire can't see where he's sitting at they, need instant replay! Also sometimes the Umpires have a ego problem sometimes.
100% Illegal serve 50% of the time! Me being dramatic would keep complaining then if the Umpire refuse to do something I just say Ty and walk away from the match
When this guy gets mad, he throw his bat. Very rude and unprofessional.
Did he throw his bat in this match? If he did not, your comment is irrelevant.
This isn‘t the point of this video!
Looks like an over drilled athletic table tennis player, that plays to a recipe.
Table tennis umpires are a joke, probably the sport with the worst reffereeing in the world, they never enact on obvious rule violations.
Wang is a good player for a while. will fall soon
Truls is right the service should be visible at all times and umpire should have noticed and give him a point then Wang wouldn't do it again. But he didn't and insist there is no violation. I hope these umpires would not get such important matches let alone finals ever again. Good win for Wang but at the same time he didn't need to hide his serves at any time.
lol even Truls can't make a clean serve. so stop with that non sense.
@@jiboo6850 next to Wang all of his serves are legal
@@rakishman1313 hahaha! you funny clown.
@@jiboo6850 you funny idiot
That serve is not perfect, but not illegal. Moregard's behavior after umpire order the game to continue is a tactics to enrage his opponent, should be called out.
대두쉑 32강 탈락 잘했다. 트롤놈도 라켓던지더니 32강 탈락 꼬시다.
Legal serve.
Almost every TT player obscures the view of the ball. Some are more blatant violations of the service rules than others.
Either the ITTF works to call more faults when they happen, or dispense with the rule altogether.
Shame to China and Wang Chuqin for illegal dirty tricks! They dont teach their players how to win fair and act good.
He is definitely hiding his serves. Maybe not every single serve, but he has now cringe reputation.
No respect for Wang Chuqin and shame for chinese coaches!
I think, they are trained by the coaches to do it at important scores….
Clearly, Truls was completely correct and his complaint was legit. Wang was hiding with his body on his serve. As an umpire myself. Yesterday, I was invited to the 20th Anniversary of a Local Table Tennis Centre where they had an exhibition matches between two highly ranked provincial table tennis players.
The umpire never called ANYTHING but BOTH PLAYERS at times were hiding their serves with their bodies. Most likely because their tosses were VERTICAL BUT BACKWARDS so they were LEANING THEIR SHOULDERS to hide the ball on the decent. Now, whether the players are doing it INTENTIONALLY OR UNINTENTIONALLY. ITTF should really look into this and get the umpire to be MORE STRICT AND MAKING THE CORRECT CALLS.
Otherwise, the whole sport would be put into question. Now, that umpire himself was NOT a sanctioned one so it is like speaking a complete different language and with it being an exhibition match. No one really cared. But still, everyone who plays the sport itself, SHOULD KNOW THE BLOODY RULE or don't play at all, period. This is called sportsmanship, fairness NEEDS TO taken in account.
Hidden by the head !
This swedish player needs to be kicked out. He is throwing the racket all the time towards other players. It is a shame of table tennis organisation.
Illegal... The ball was hidden from the view of the opponent. You can only see the ball from the side camera
First
VOICE
Second
Wang Chuqin It violates the rules
in general, very, very many professional players, including the Chinese ones, serve incorrectly... and Malong also serves incorrectly... but the referees who officiate matches even at a high level are not competent, many of them are not at all played table tennis... so maybe they don't know how to serve correctly... or they are afraid to pay attention at a high level... to professional players so as not to have problems with the higher body of the judging committee!!!!!
Ma long hides ball behind neck
Very glad you are bringing this up, to get some wider public attention. It's not about criticising one player for serving illegally (when so many shamelessly do it), it should be about the ITTF actually enforcing the rules, or removing them. It was fine when all players could shield the ball on serve, then it was the same for everyone. "The umpire can't see it" is an appalling excuse we hear from the ITTF - why do we have rules that umpires cannot enforce, that allow dishonest or accidentally play to seriously affect a match ? Enforce the rule, somehow (maybe with one of the umpires being a middle serve umpire), or remove the rule. I hope we can have some progress on this issue from the ITTF, it's a stain on the sport.
yeah... this needs some serious attention from rule enforcers.
you are correct. the umpire cannot see the serve from his position. why have a rule the umpire can't judge.
I wish everyone’s serve is as clean as like timo boll. It’s always a problem for a righty to see a lefty’s forehand serve if a righty receiver chooses to stand on the backhand side of the table. In general, wangchuqin’s serve looks good to me based on the current rules. I can also see where Truls complaints came from. But if Truls could move his receiving position to the middle… also it’s a longstanding issue of ITTF rules
You can't see the serve, but you can flick it, eh?
Moregard sometime cheating too. He throw up ball not enough vertical sometime. A lot of players use some cheats. Hiding ball by head - classic. ))
He behaves like a spoiled kid, infamous for his bad attitude during the game. Maybe that is should be called out because it is really effective to enrage his opponent.
I think the TT umpires should more strictly enforce the rules. Encouraging the players to Test always the edge and get away with it, Leads to frustration. The receiverhas to make sure that the contact point is visible. If the receiver is testing the edge it is in doubt a fault.
Hiding the contact behind the head
Thanks for explicating thr indicent
The service rule is poorly written and desperately needs an update for clarity.
"From the start of service until it is struck, the ball shall be above the level of the playing surface and behind the server's end line, and it shall not be hidden from the receiver by any part of the body or clothing of the server or his doubles partner"
To judge 100% that the ball is not "hidden from the receiver" the umpire would need to be psychic. Also in competitions where there is only one umpire it's impossible for the umpire to see half the time because their view of the service is obscured by the serving player.
I've heard more interesting and definite rules like "nothing between the ball and any part of the net assembly".
The vertical toss rule is also ridiculous and unnecessary and results in a pile of laughable faults. Anything from 60% to vertical would be fine. It's illegal to serve behind your body so it's physically impossible to toss the ball that far back anyway.
A camera behind players would help at least
@@mpt2129 The camera is from different angle from the receiver sadly. it's impossible to get camera from right of receiver's angle/
Moregard no puede confundir las cosas, Moregard pierde el partido por que wang fue mejor, Moregard es muy buen jugador le ha ganado a los mejore, pero es muy joven y le falta experiencia y controlar su emociones, con esa actitud no gana los partidos.
Moregard can not confuse things, Moregard loses the match because wang was better, Moregard is a very good player has beaten the best, but he is very young and lacks experience and control his emotions, with that attitude he does not win the matches.
No, se equivoca porque Wang servía de ese modo cuando lo necesitaba de hecho truls se sale del partido cuando iban 1-1 10-10 puesto que Wang le servía de ese modo
Tapa la pelota con la cabeza, desde la posiciòn de ambos jueces es imposible ver la falta. Solo si tuviesen 4 jueces de los cuales 2 deberian ubicarse enfrentados y dos en los laterales de la mesa. O bien un Sistema de Var como en el futbol.
The ball is visible to the receiver depending on where he stands. The real problem for Truls is, he cannot see the service motion before contact! This however is perfectly legal.
a legal serve is when the Umpire can see iy. It the the duty of the player to ensure that the umpire sees it, from the video, do you think the Umpire saw it?
@@anilram3680 There are 2 umpires in an official game. Depending on where the umpire sit, and whether the player is right hand or left hand, 1 of the umpire can never see the serve. In this video, the umpire who called "Let" can only see WCQ's back, and how high/ curved he tossed the ball. He is in a position where he cannot determine whether WCQ hide the contact point, and he will depend on the other umpire sitting opposite to call whether WCQ serve is illegal or not. Cocky Truls thought that the umpire called the serve illegal, but he called LET in this situation, because he thought the ball touched the net. If he had called LET because WCQ serve is illegal, he would have given WCQ a warning after calling LET.
The only thing i can say is Wang Chuqin do a very high level serve to make it only invisible to his opponent but the umpire still define that's legal (his right hand do a very good misleading to the umpire) Just like some those grey area action in soccer and basketball
That needs alot of pratice though, it's totally different with those amateur players who don't give a shit about the rules at all
the best solution is to give the receiver the right to challenge when they can't see the service instead of letting the umpire call an illegal serve. so many top players cheat from time to time throughout the duration of a match and many points are decided under 3-4 rallys. i am sure that cameras can be placed from both ends of the table and this problem will be solved. I just wish players can be honest like timo boll, lin yunju...look at their serves...both players let u see the ball clearly...Jha is another top player that serves legally all the time.
oh...and umpires calling faults is not gonna help...so what if u get a warning...players that cheat during important situations will do it again and again...just let the receiver call it when the point of contact cannot be seen..i mean these professionals have respect for each other...I am sure the server will gladly replay the point if the receiver makes a complaint...the umpire can go to the camera if the server doesn't agree..I doubt any professional would actually be proud of winning due to hiding the serve
the best way is to be clear with the rule...heck...instead of hiding the serve or can't see the contact..CALL IT FAULT when it is hard to see instead of can't see...because players use their body and head and the contact might be like 5cm away and it is still hard to see.....look at timo boll and Lin Yun ju....their serves are like at least 15cm away from any parts of their body...Look at Lin Yun ju...his serve can be seen from any angle...
Look like hidden service 🤔😳
Wang Chuqin has no problem serving,but Moregard has a problem with his position . He could just move a little to the right.
I bet if we had VAR for serves in TT a significant percentage would be deemed illegal. Without the use of technology the current rules are very difficult to enforce because of the sheer speed of the game.
maybe the rule for serving in single play should be the same as in the double play, to force the angle being smaller so the receiver is able to see the contact point even with lefty servers and righty receivers. maybe this rule should be applied only when the players differ in lefty and righty