Never bet against China. Their vast numbers of people are full of God given talent and innovative wonders. They just come out of the woodwork with amazing achievements and they act so modest like no big deal.
This will go down in history as something like "ASML was barred from selling to Huawei thus made Huawei became self reliant. The law of unintended consequences struck again 👏👏👏
Let's not get ahead of ourselves China has only submitted a patent application for SAQP which theoretically is supposed to enable DUV production of better than 7nm using widely known multiple imaging. China has yet to produce anything commercially better than 7nm despite promising 5nm chips a year ago. Even the 7nm Krin 9000S chip in the Mate 60 is unlikely made at break even at best and probably at a small loss Until China produces at least a couple hundred thousand units of anything better than the equivalent of 7nm, no one should get excited
@@tonysu8860 I guess that you missed that SMIC and Huawei are planning to use quadruple patterning for 5nm chips and that Huawei already has 3nm class process technology plans using DUV and multi-patterning. So although the cost will be initially higher for producing those chips it will not prevent them from having an internal market for supercomputers and the military. SMIC is already building the foundry for it. It will be the 3rd largest in the world. The really interesting things is that the US military requires Chinese manufacturing for semiconductors to build advanced weapons because China owns the supply chain including the raw materials. More interesting is that China is already building photonic semiconductor (where many of the limitations related to electrical semiconductors disappear) capacity now. So faster chips with far lower energy needs that doesn't need the EUV machines to design and build them within the next three years (they are already building the foundries). Add to that the fact that we produce ten times less STEM graduates than China, that most of the experts in this area are Chinese or Indian (who are also starting to be demonised in the US), what we are witnessing is the passing of the torch. There is no way for the US to keep up.
Current cost of ASML's EUV is about $380 million, DUV machine costs about half that or about $190 million. If so that $190 billion difference must be amortized over the useful life of the machine. Not only that, but more machines are involved so if one says10 machines are needed, the difference is $1.9 billion. The question is that if it costs 50% more using ASQP-DUV where is the break even point? The video, I assume, is only talking about the recurring costs and does not amortize the front end capital cost.
I think that you misunderstood what is being done. Huawei and SMIC are making multiple passes of the engraving on the silicon. Yes, the yields are lower but if the machine costs half as much as an EUV machine. But it is just a tactical solution for Huawei to continue to produce products using semiconductors. The real revolution is when China's photonic chips (i.e that use light instead of electricity to transport information) come online within the next three years. All the restrictions of using electricity when you use light and the power consumption is order of magnitudes lower than with conventional chips and they process information orders of magnitude faster. It will be a major shock to most people when the products using these type of chips come online. Just check out the news on China optical super computer to get a taste of what is coming.
@@MrThurstjo I think not.. I made a typo, it should be: SAQP which stands for Self Aligning Quad Patterning. Right now it is conjecture on whether it is cost effective. It appears that SMIC has acceptable yields. Re photonic chips. For certain applications like computing, photonics looks promising, especially in AI applications because it can parallel process. For power applications, not likely. According to Huawei, they are using this technique for 3nm chips. Some say their upcoming Mate phones due out in October will be using 3nm chips. Further Huawei is using stacking to get the equivalent of smaller nodes with better performance.
There are some $300 billion worth on DUV machines sitting in China. ASML is guaranteed to buy back old DUV equipment. Wait until China starts producing her own DUV equipment in the near future.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Those american-european efforts to stop China arrived too late, right now chinese engineers are advancing rapidly towards self-sufficiency!
I can smell the coming of better quality, performance and higher value lower costs gadgets and electrical appliances from China 👍👍🇨🇳🇨🇳🎉🎉
Never bet against China. Their vast numbers of people are full of God given talent and innovative wonders. They just come out of the woodwork with amazing achievements and they act so modest like no big deal.
This will go down in history as something like "ASML was barred from selling to Huawei thus made Huawei became self reliant. The law of unintended consequences struck again 👏👏👏
Givng them the reason to inovate and make better. AI and robotics is next.
👑 Huawei 👑
MAGNIFICENT
MERITOCRACY
Of CHINA 💯%.
i wish 🧞 i was
Chinese 💯%.
💚🐉🇨🇳🐉💚
💜☸️☯️🕉️💜
Let's not get ahead of ourselves
China has only submitted a patent application for SAQP which theoretically is supposed to enable DUV production of better than 7nm using widely known multiple imaging.
China has yet to produce anything commercially better than 7nm despite promising 5nm chips a year ago.
Even the 7nm Krin 9000S chip in the Mate 60 is unlikely made at break even at best and probably at a small loss
Until China produces at least a couple hundred thousand units of anything better than the equivalent of 7nm, no one should get excited
that's what people like you said before China started producing 7nm chips ...... don't worry 5nm chips will be started in 2-3 years ....
@@tonysu8860 I guess that you missed that SMIC and Huawei are planning to use quadruple patterning for 5nm chips and that Huawei already has 3nm class process technology plans using DUV and multi-patterning. So although the cost will be initially higher for producing those chips it will not prevent them from having an internal market for supercomputers and the military. SMIC is already building the foundry for it. It will be the 3rd largest in the world. The really interesting things is that the US military requires Chinese manufacturing for semiconductors to build advanced weapons because China owns the supply chain including the raw materials. More interesting is that China is already building photonic semiconductor (where many of the limitations related to electrical semiconductors disappear) capacity now. So faster chips with far lower energy needs that doesn't need the EUV machines to design and build them within the next three years (they are already building the foundries). Add to that the fact that we produce ten times less STEM graduates than China, that most of the experts in this area are Chinese or Indian (who are also starting to be demonised in the US), what we are witnessing is the passing of the torch. There is no way for the US to keep up.
Make IT again Huawei 😂
But keep trying
Current cost of ASML's EUV is about $380 million, DUV machine costs about half that or about $190 million. If so that $190 billion difference must be amortized over the useful life of the machine. Not only that, but more machines are involved so if one says10 machines are needed, the difference is $1.9 billion. The question is that if it costs 50% more using ASQP-DUV where is the break even point? The video, I assume, is only talking about the recurring costs and does not amortize the front end capital cost.
I think that you misunderstood what is being done. Huawei and SMIC are making multiple passes of the engraving on the silicon. Yes, the yields are lower but if the machine costs half as much as an EUV machine. But it is just a tactical solution for Huawei to continue to produce products using semiconductors. The real revolution is when China's photonic chips (i.e that use light instead of electricity to transport information) come online within the next three years. All the restrictions of using electricity when you use light and the power consumption is order of magnitudes lower than with conventional chips and they process information orders of magnitude faster. It will be a major shock to most people when the products using these type of chips come online. Just check out the news on China optical super computer to get a taste of what is coming.
@@MrThurstjo I think not.. I made a typo, it should be: SAQP which stands for Self Aligning Quad Patterning. Right now it is conjecture on whether it is cost effective. It appears that SMIC has acceptable yields. Re photonic chips. For certain applications like computing, photonics looks promising, especially in AI applications because it can parallel process. For power applications, not likely. According to Huawei, they are using this technique for 3nm chips. Some say their upcoming Mate phones due out in October will be using 3nm chips. Further Huawei is using stacking to get the equivalent of smaller nodes with better performance.
There are some $300 billion worth on DUV machines sitting in China. ASML is guaranteed to buy back old DUV equipment. Wait until China starts producing her own DUV equipment in the near future.
Haha..who has the last laugh...good bye american products
Hahaha hallelujah !!! ❤