Why Is There So Much Overlap in Cluster B Disorders?
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- 0:00 Intro
0:42 Why is there overlap in Cluster B Disorders?
1:41 Borderline organization and character traits in Cluster B Disorders
4:28 Causes of overlap between Cluster B Disorders
Why Is There So Much Overlap in Cluster B Disorders?
As our understanding of narcissistic, psychopathic and borderline personalities emerged and grew through research and study, the lines that separated them blurred; what we have today, instead, are "Cluster B Disorders". In this video I review the similarities and differences between them, and explain the overlap in their descriptions, presentations, and behaviors.
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I remember that you once said that you can get caught up in looking for a red herring. I spent so many years trying to understand my father. I couldn't. He had traits of BPD and NPD. Sometimes he seemed like he was living in reality, other times, far from it. He would never get help. He would of said, "Maybe you need the help?" I had to stop wondering and spend that energy on myself. that's enough to have to deal with. The overlap makes sense to me. I like how you explained it.
The famous psychoanalyst Otto Kernberg believed that NPD was actually just a defence mechanism for an underlying borderline personality type. I do think though that the ICD system, the one used in most countries outside the USA, is significantly better with these things than the DSM. The ICD has scrapped all of the old personality disorder categories and instead bow records personality disorder traits and their severity. It avoids the often arbitrary and artificial distinctions that the DSM has and allows for a much more holistic approach. Things like BPD and NPD are often just different sides of the same coin, and not separate things like the DSM tries to make them.
This is where I think the ICD system is significantly better than the DSM. It has scrapped all of the old personality disorders and replaced them with a dimensional model that records personality disorder traits and their severity. It's avoids the arbitrary categorisation the DSM has and allows for a much more holistic assessment.
So basically if you have been diagnosed BPD you've acquired all the cluster B personality traits. Infinity wars style.
And I know I've come across this idea, but only once before, but not only did my ex slide up and down the narcissism scale [bang on and as far as I know you are the only doc to add this missing piece in our understanding of these insanely difficult people] but my ex also slid around different subtypes of narcissism. His main source of supply [external validation] was work, where he rose to the executive level. Things going well at work? Grandiose/communal/neglectful. Things going badly at work? Covert/neglectful. Punishing silences that could go for days ending in an eruption of rage. Tons of communal stuff, as well. There wasn't a committee to save the environment or a place on the board of the Library Association he didn't live to be on. White knight on steroids, would drop anything if anyone needed a ride anywhere. Did some random woman at work want that chest of drawers his wife needed because she, baby, and toddler were living out of cardboard boxes? No problem. He'd rent a truck and drive it over to her house. When would be a good time? [And how selfish was that wife when she told him to get back in that truck and retrieve said chest of drawers, and how sullen he was when confronted with her astonishment and upset]. He would also punch holes in the drywall or kick in a door if his self-image were too challenged. This guy was all over the map. I would sometimes say to him, "Who ARE you right now?" Shameful secrets expertly kept? Check. Oppositional, sometimes picking fights even when on the same page? Check. Dysregulated? Check. Gaslighting? Check. Breadcrumbing, future faking, wordsalad, hoover, devalue, discard? Check. Lacking in whole object relations and object constancy? Check. The three stop signs? Check. I did your quiz in your book, Dr Malkin and at secure times he was lower on the scale but at other times [more rare but scarring, nonetheless] slid right up to the threshold of malignant. But over the three plus decades we were married [more on than off but it was a bumpy ride because I had no idea what I was dealing with and I did all the wrong things] he seemed to manifest all the types, whereas my mum is fairly consistently covert/delusional and my dad fairly consistently grandiose. The core deep insecurity and shame, hence thirst for external validation, is what drives all three, but I'm not sure enough has been said of, or enough research done on, the type of narcissist who is not one type.
this reverted me to you're previous video about feeling the feelings inside the body than, moving from there, kindof a hard but fast lesson I'll say!
I tell you one thing I'd rather be around a narcissist anytime then borderline personality disorder My whole family is borderline and my brother is a narcissist. Borderline are exhausting and these people are out of control with unpredictable mood swings.
I’m sorry for what you’ve experienced 😞
I dated a woman with BPD this year… still getting over it 6 months later
I also had a boyfriend when I was like 21 who had BPD and he had several episodes of psychosis that were partially related to lack of sleep combined with high levels of marijuana use (not saying that THC is super prone to cause psychosis, just that it did not help in the case of someone who had a propensity for psychotic breaks).
I remember hearing that psychotic breaks are only present in severe BPD from people who managed his care. So it's definitely interesting to learn that it used to be a key feature.
That 90s (maybe like 2000 or 2001?) Winona Rider movie, Girl Interrupted, presented borderline personality that way and it really confused me when I was a teen. Now it makes sense, considering that that movie was set in the 60s.
No idea how accurate it was in representing different mental health & personality disorders, but it's cool to learn that that part was pretty representative of how BP was classified in the 60s!
Yes very helpful ty
Thank you !
So glad you liked it!
It's my understanding that it is the behavior patterns of the person. The ex husband would wake up every morning screaming to make sure we were awake. Why I don't know.
(ꏿ﹏ꏿ;) Oh wow.
I have PTSD, diagnosed, so waking up to a panic attack every morning is enough to make me go stay somewhere else.
If he's up you should be up in his mind because you are an extension of him.
@@edgreen8140 He did it to have his way. If the coffee wasn't perfect, or it was moved. He was a child who wanted his own way. His behavior patterns fit that of the venerable narcissist. We were his "portrait family". When he retired he kicked me out. Thirty eight year's of evil. He tried to kill me twice. In 1985, we didn't have a phone. I was abused from the get. I married my mom. They behaved alike. Victims.
What’s with the video edit mid sentence?
Kernberg's model of a "borderline organization" is far more helpful. There's too much overlap in cluster B to diagnose someone in black and white terms.
psychopaths are always narcs and are super smart and dark...left over narcs are not psychos, predictable and way easier to handle
Hi, can you descrige the 'super smart' aspect from your experiences ? I never understood that bit
@@justletmesigninokthx Machiavellians are sly, deceptive, distrusting, and manipulative. They are characterized by cynical and misanthropic beliefs, callousness, a striving for … money, power, and status, and the use of cunning influence tactics.
@@justletmesigninokthx Overall, the team found no evidence that psychopaths were more intelligent than people who don't have psychopathic traits. In fact, the relationship went the other way. The psychopaths, on average, scored significantly lower on intelligence tests. “I think the results will surprise a lot of people,” says Boutwell.Jan 20, 2017. And if narcissism is, as Dr Malkin suggests, and addiction to feeling special, then you can definitely have psychopaths who are not addicted to this. They do, however, seek power.
@@taom9004 then why are so many CEOs, politicians and surgeons psychopathic not to mention law enforcement
It's not neurotic it's closer to psychosis on the border. The old term I think was psudoneurotic schizophrenia. Very old useless term.
Actually now that I think of it I believe the character type was “Infantile Character” You’re right that there were some similarities between the idea of pseudoneurotic schizophrenia and borderline level of organization.
Make sure that you tell us about the lies to the meshed people so that the narc seems like the victim.