Of course, glad to help. I thought at first the episode would be quicker, but then it kept becoming more and more clear as to how many things Myriad does get weird with, and I'm sure I've overlooked a few interactions.
An episode on what keywords have redundancy and any that are relevant with multiple instances would be really helpful I wasn’t aware this worked like this
In general, the rules say when the keywords are redundant (most are static) If it is a trigger it will say triggers separately Or if is an alternative cost, it is extra too Like for example if a Creature gets multiple of Blitz, you get only 1 die trigger
A couple things that are interesting with Myriad and Duke Ravengard specifically: -Port Razer extra combats will give you like 27 Duke triggers if you stack onto the original, which you can use to kill everyone with something like Inferno Titan. -Legendary creatures with myriad die to state based before blockers get declared, works great with Kamigawa dragons. -Because the exile is end of combat, Sundial of the infinite/force end turn effects cause the tokens to stay.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel The way it works is you put myriad and haste on port razer. It swings at player 1, creating two copies. Assuming each hits, that’s 3 extra combats. Then you apply the beginning of combat myriad trigger to port razer. Then it has two swing at a new player, with 4 instances of myriad, which creates 8 extra port razers. Then 9 combats, 13 instances of myriad, then 27 port razers. And now you have 27 extra myriad applications for whatever else, assuming you haven’t killed everyone yet.
So I’ve got Blade of Selves in my Kardur, Doomscourge deck. If I’m playing a standard 4 person game and I swing him, he’ll make 2 tokens attacking off of the blade, the legend rule applies and the copies are sacrificed, then Kardur’s second ability triggers causing everyone to lose 2 life and me to gain 2, as well as refreshing Kardur’s first ability forcing combat. Is that how this works?
Mostly correct (except for the part about sacrificing Kardur due to the Legend rule, technically not sacrificed but just simply sent to the Graveyard). You will get two new 'super Goad' trigers, which are sadly redundant and getting one of that trigger isn't much different than getting a hundred, unless someone really wanted to Stifle the effect and in which case they would need to Stifle twice. And then yes, each one will see the other dying, but you will end up having them lose more life and you gaining more life. There will be three total Kardurs that see a total of two attacking creatures dying, so you will end up gaining 6 life and each opponent will end up losing 6 life.
Edit: I was wrong as hell, don’t read the following….I saw an article say that a spell that gives a target creature an ability until end of turn will stick with the myriad copies. They are making a copy of the creature and the creature at that time has the ability or +3+3. Something buffing all creatures doesn’t work because it’s coming from that card and not entwined with the creature.
Do you remember the article name? Fixing misinformation is a big thing, it's one thing to just not know if a ruling but when someone is told a rule is one thing then that can more damaging to their games. They will maybe go out of their way to build a deck a certain way, spending a lot of time and money getting cards for that deck only to then find out that was all a waste.
It is wild. Played league til 4am. Looked at magic cards til 7. I looked at every 900+ cards that said a target creature gets +X+X until end of turn. And I can’t read. Thankfully I wasn’t just looking up the wrong mechanic. I got it from draftism saying “A Myriad copy has all the characteristics of the original creature, including “until end of turn” abilities. But any counters, auras, or equipment the creature may have aren’t copied, only the intrinsic properties of the myriad creature.”… I get now that it means, the token cat activate abilities, but I misinterpreted it at first.
@@williamhutchinson8881 Ah, that's all good. We all slip up and miss something. Heck, that's what a bunch of these videos are covering, how just one or two words on a card can make a massive difference and make a card work totally different than another card that looks like it's the same effect.
They never *attacked* per se, they essentially skipped that to instantly being *attacking*, which boast doesn't check for. Most things like that care about the creature being declared an attacker during the declare attackers phase.
Yeah, this is one of the more confusing things in Magic where the wording is subtle yet crucial. You can find a detailed breakdown I did for this in EP 11, and if you want to check out the rules for yourself this sort of stuff is covered in CR 508.3 & 508.4. But like Cnvvj said, they are "attacking" but they have not "attacked" and the game specifically requires that they "attacked" for these sorts of abilities to work.
How Does Ranar, the Ever-Watchful interact with myriad? Let's assume it's a four-person game. Ranar, the Ever-Watchful, Legion Loyalty, and four 1/1 spirit tokens are on the board. If I attack one opponent with all four 1/1 spirit tokens, due to Legion Loyalty I create token copies of all four spirits for each other opponent, which are exiled at the end of combat. The exiling of the token copies will trigger Ranar, but how many times?
Solid question. Myriad is actually two triggered abilities. The initial one that triggers when the creature attacks, and then for any amount of tokens that the Myriad ability does create it sets up a delayed triggered ability that happens "at end of combat". So, because they're triggered abilities, they each go onto the Stack which means that each one resolves one at a time. This means that if four 1/1s attacked a player and there were two other opponents, each Spirit created two new tokens that would be exiled at end of combat, for a total of eight individual triggers for Ranar. Also, bonus fact about Ranar that I noticed when reading his ability, it says "whenever... a spell or ability you control exiles one or more permanents from the battlefield" but it doesn't specify that that must be a permanent you control or own. So when you Swords to Plowshares or Path of Exile an opponent's creature, it will trigger Ranar. That's cool.
I had no idea Myriad was a may, though I don't think that would've been relevant in my games so far. I used to have Blade of selves in my Rhys-deck but even if it's kinda funny, it's also very clunky.
Yeah, it's not something that would come up often in games. The example I gave in the video was the most common situation that I would think that would happen, but if an opponent cast something like Gather Specimens then you may not want them to get creatures via that kind of effect.
Wow, I went into this one thinking it was going to be really easy and I did get most, but I was very surprised by some of these. I didn't get them wrong exactly, but I just hadn't even thought of some of the situations that could pop up. Thanks for this one as well. Could you answer this question. Does Hall of Gemstone make it so that Fellwar Stone only produce the chosen color until end of turn or does it still see all mana abilities of the lands my opponents have?
For sure, it even surprised me a lot for how much I was able to come up with for Myriad. And yeah, that's a really good question. I've added it to the list of things to cover. I've got two other scripts I'm working on right now, but I've bumped it to the top of the list. Should be the next video to release.
Oh, like the creature that has the Mutate ability has a combat damage TA? If so, then that would be nice to see more. There is currently one with that, Sea-Dasher Octopus gives the Mutate stack a little Coastal Piracy effect. I believe there are two Mutate creatures that grant an Activated Ability, but other than that, yeah, they're all just Mutate triggers. I hope they revisit it soon. Prices are likely to go up a bit too if they do and don't reprint the OG ones.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Oh yeah, I missed Sea Dasher lol, I was working on a Saskia Myriad deck so I filtered blue out of my search terms. As someone who plays Ivy, I'm all about the synergy between cloning and mutate so I'd love to grant a mutate pile myriad and watch the chaos unfold.
They do interact. The Isshin would cause each instance of Myriad to trigger an additional time. So, one creature with Myriad would attack, and you'd get 2 token copies attacking Opponent A and 2 token copies attacking Opponent B. If the tokens have attack triggers, they don't get additional or any triggers as they're entering already attacking.
how does cyberman squadron interact with a card like brudiclad and some amount of tokens? just played a game where I was confused on the difference of attacking one person versus multiple. was able to copy squadron so all of the bruiclad myrs could become squadron which all say non-legendary artifact creatures have myriad
The Brudiclad trigger happens before you attack and then Myriad will trigger after you have attacked with the create that has it. So, the Brudiclad will make a Myr token and then you will make all your other tokens will become a copy of that one that you picked. This means that if you're wanting to turn all of your tokens into a copy of the Cybermen Squadron you would need to have a token version of the Squadron at the start of your combat. If you can pull that off, then yes, this would be quite an explosive thing. If you had 9 tokens before combat and one of them is a Squadron, then you'd make a Myr and turn all 10 of the tokens into Squadrons, so that means that all of your nonlegendary artifact creatures, includes your 10 Squadrons, would all have 10 different instances of Myriad, it stacks. So once you attack with those 10, each one will create two more assuming you're in a 4-player game, so you'd have 30 5/5 creatures out attacking, 10 at each opponent.
Yup, that +2/+2 from Norn is always applying as a Static Effect, any new creatures that exist on the BF after the Norn has hit the BF will also have it applying to them. If the Norn were to leave the BF, then the effect would instantly stop applying to all of the creatures on the BF, it wouldn't linger around until the end of the turn.
Would impact tremors trigger for each token? And could you sacrifice the tokens to something like goblin bombardment before they get exiled at end of turn?
For Impact Tremors, yes, it will see each of the token Creatures ETB and trigger for each one. For sacrificing them to the Bombardment, yes, you would be able to do that before you lose the tokens normally, but one thing to note on this is if you're getting the Myriad triggers from a Legendary Creature then you would not be able to sac them to the Bombardment. The "Legend Rule" would kick in as an SBA and before you would get Priority to activate the Bombardment you would have to pick one of the Legendary Creatures to stick around and then send the rest to your GY, and that again would happen so "fast" that you wouldn't be able to sac them yet.
So I got a bit of a silly question and I get the feeling for the answer is no but let's say there are four players playing and one player is knocked out it goes back to my turn and I swing with myriad creatures do I still make the extra tokens for the players that are knocked out but they just don't have an attack Target I'm guessing you just wouldn't make those tokens but I'm curious about it in terms of getting etbs off
@@Nalzir You would be correct in that you do not make a token copy that would be attacking them. When a player loses they are removed from the game entirely. Cards that would normally care about them no longer 'see' them.
Referring to the Legend Rule? If so, then yes that will occur, but an important note is that they are not technically sacrificed. They are simply going to the GY. Cards like Korvold, Fae-Cursed King or Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest would not trigger from the Legend Rule happening.
A great topic. Thank you.
Sure thing, glad to help.
Thank you so much for clarifying Myriad, “TISACC!!”
As always, great content.
Of course, glad to help. I thought at first the episode would be quicker, but then it kept becoming more and more clear as to how many things Myriad does get weird with, and I'm sure I've overlooked a few interactions.
An episode on what keywords have redundancy and any that are relevant with multiple instances would be really helpful I wasn’t aware this worked like this
In general, the rules say when the keywords are redundant (most are static)
If it is a trigger it will say triggers separately
Or if is an alternative cost, it is extra too
Like for example if a Creature gets multiple of Blitz, you get only 1 die trigger
I could do one to provide some of the more relevant ones that do stack (non-redundant). There's a lot of abilities to cover.
A couple things that are interesting with Myriad and Duke Ravengard specifically:
-Port Razer extra combats will give you like 27 Duke triggers if you stack onto the original, which you can use to kill everyone with something like Inferno Titan.
-Legendary creatures with myriad die to state based before blockers get declared, works great with Kamigawa dragons.
-Because the exile is end of combat, Sundial of the infinite/force end turn effects cause the tokens to stay.
That's one or two extra combats...
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel The way it works is you put myriad and haste on port razer. It swings at player 1, creating two copies. Assuming each hits, that’s 3 extra combats. Then you apply the beginning of combat myriad trigger to port razer. Then it has two swing at a new player, with 4 instances of myriad, which creates 8 extra port razers. Then 9 combats, 13 instances of myriad, then 27 port razers. And now you have 27 extra myriad applications for whatever else, assuming you haven’t killed everyone yet.
@@jacobgordon433 Yeah, Port Razer is for sure one of the more powerful (high ceiling) extra combat type creatures.
Oh my god! That is crazy! Ty
I aprexiate this video very much
Sure thing, happy to help out.
Cybermen Squadron + Nanogene Conversion seems like silly commander fun.
That's a lot of tokens, oh my! I love cards like Nanogene Conversion, I always want to fit them into my decks for some wild plays.
So I’ve got Blade of Selves in my Kardur, Doomscourge deck. If I’m playing a standard 4 person game and I swing him, he’ll make 2 tokens attacking off of the blade, the legend rule applies and the copies are sacrificed, then Kardur’s second ability triggers causing everyone to lose 2 life and me to gain 2, as well as refreshing Kardur’s first ability forcing combat. Is that how this works?
Mostly correct (except for the part about sacrificing Kardur due to the Legend rule, technically not sacrificed but just simply sent to the Graveyard).
You will get two new 'super Goad' trigers, which are sadly redundant and getting one of that trigger isn't much different than getting a hundred, unless someone really wanted to Stifle the effect and in which case they would need to Stifle twice.
And then yes, each one will see the other dying, but you will end up having them lose more life and you gaining more life. There will be three total Kardurs that see a total of two attacking creatures dying, so you will end up gaining 6 life and each opponent will end up losing 6 life.
Edit: I was wrong as hell, don’t read the following….I saw an article say that a spell that gives a target creature an ability until end of turn will stick with the myriad copies. They are making a copy of the creature and the creature at that time has the ability or +3+3.
Something buffing all creatures doesn’t work because it’s coming from that card and not entwined with the creature.
Do you remember the article name? Fixing misinformation is a big thing, it's one thing to just not know if a ruling but when someone is told a rule is one thing then that can more damaging to their games. They will maybe go out of their way to build a deck a certain way, spending a lot of time and money getting cards for that deck only to then find out that was all a waste.
I’m looking for it. Just spent 3 hours looking at all the instants that targeted a player. The internet agrees with you.
@@williamhutchinson8881 Dang, that's a lot of time searching. You're diving deep through Scryfall.
It is wild. Played league til 4am. Looked at magic cards til 7. I looked at every 900+ cards that said a target creature gets +X+X until end of turn. And I can’t read.
Thankfully I wasn’t just looking up the wrong mechanic. I got it from draftism saying “A Myriad copy has all the characteristics of the original creature, including “until end of turn” abilities. But any counters, auras, or equipment the creature may have aren’t copied, only the intrinsic properties of the myriad creature.”… I get now that it means, the token cat activate abilities, but I misinterpreted it at first.
@@williamhutchinson8881 Ah, that's all good. We all slip up and miss something. Heck, that's what a bunch of these videos are covering, how just one or two words on a card can make a massive difference and make a card work totally different than another card that looks like it's the same effect.
I'm confused about boast. It doesn't check that they attacked?
They never *attacked* per se, they essentially skipped that to instantly being *attacking*, which boast doesn't check for. Most things like that care about the creature being declared an attacker during the declare attackers phase.
Yeah, this is one of the more confusing things in Magic where the wording is subtle yet crucial. You can find a detailed breakdown I did for this in EP 11, and if you want to check out the rules for yourself this sort of stuff is covered in CR 508.3 & 508.4.
But like Cnvvj said, they are "attacking" but they have not "attacked" and the game specifically requires that they "attacked" for these sorts of abilities to work.
How Does Ranar, the Ever-Watchful interact with myriad?
Let's assume it's a four-person game. Ranar, the Ever-Watchful, Legion Loyalty, and four 1/1 spirit tokens are on the board. If I attack one opponent with all four 1/1 spirit tokens, due to Legion Loyalty I create token copies of all four spirits for each other opponent, which are exiled at the end of combat. The exiling of the token copies will trigger Ranar, but how many times?
Solid question. Myriad is actually two triggered abilities. The initial one that triggers when the creature attacks, and then for any amount of tokens that the Myriad ability does create it sets up a delayed triggered ability that happens "at end of combat". So, because they're triggered abilities, they each go onto the Stack which means that each one resolves one at a time. This means that if four 1/1s attacked a player and there were two other opponents, each Spirit created two new tokens that would be exiled at end of combat, for a total of eight individual triggers for Ranar.
Also, bonus fact about Ranar that I noticed when reading his ability, it says "whenever... a spell or ability you control exiles one or more permanents from the battlefield" but it doesn't specify that that must be a permanent you control or own. So when you Swords to Plowshares or Path of Exile an opponent's creature, it will trigger Ranar. That's cool.
I had no idea Myriad was a may, though I don't think that would've been relevant in my games so far.
I used to have Blade of selves in my Rhys-deck but even if it's kinda funny, it's also very clunky.
Yeah, it's not something that would come up often in games. The example I gave in the video was the most common situation that I would think that would happen, but if an opponent cast something like Gather Specimens then you may not want them to get creatures via that kind of effect.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Something that might come up more often is if you don't want a token attacking into a lifelinker
@@Rukalin Ah, very true. Sometimes your opponent just ends up healthier than had you not attacked them.
Wow, I went into this one thinking it was going to be really easy and I did get most, but I was very surprised by some of these. I didn't get them wrong exactly, but I just hadn't even thought of some of the situations that could pop up. Thanks for this one as well.
Could you answer this question. Does Hall of Gemstone make it so that Fellwar Stone only produce the chosen color until end of turn or does it still see all mana abilities of the lands my opponents have?
For sure, it even surprised me a lot for how much I was able to come up with for Myriad.
And yeah, that's a really good question. I've added it to the list of things to cover. I've got two other scripts I'm working on right now, but I've bumped it to the top of the list. Should be the next video to release.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Awesome! Thank you very much!
@@kyleedmunds5329 Sure thing.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel No need to single me out if you do the episode on it. Just the info is good.
If we had a single mutate creature with a combat damage trigger, Myriad Mutate would be the most metal EDH deck of all time.
Oh, like the creature that has the Mutate ability has a combat damage TA? If so, then that would be nice to see more. There is currently one with that, Sea-Dasher Octopus gives the Mutate stack a little Coastal Piracy effect. I believe there are two Mutate creatures that grant an Activated Ability, but other than that, yeah, they're all just Mutate triggers. I hope they revisit it soon. Prices are likely to go up a bit too if they do and don't reprint the OG ones.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Oh yeah, I missed Sea Dasher lol, I was working on a Saskia Myriad deck so I filtered blue out of my search terms. As someone who plays Ivy, I'm all about the synergy between cloning and mutate so I'd love to grant a mutate pile myriad and watch the chaos unfold.
@@epicdude8742 Chaos indeed. I hope you have those Infinitoken things.
@@ThisIsACommanderChannel Probably should get them, although the effort of writing out a mutate pile on a token might not be worth it 💀
@@epicdude8742 At some point, you probably just take a picture of your phone of the Mutate stack to keep track.
How would myriad combined with Isshin's attack trigger work?
They do interact. The Isshin would cause each instance of Myriad to trigger an additional time. So, one creature with Myriad would attack, and you'd get 2 token copies attacking Opponent A and 2 token copies attacking Opponent B. If the tokens have attack triggers, they don't get additional or any triggers as they're entering already attacking.
how does cyberman squadron interact with a card like brudiclad and some amount of tokens? just played a game where I was confused on the difference of attacking one person versus multiple. was able to copy squadron so all of the bruiclad myrs could become squadron which all say non-legendary artifact creatures have myriad
The Brudiclad trigger happens before you attack and then Myriad will trigger after you have attacked with the create that has it. So, the Brudiclad will make a Myr token and then you will make all your other tokens will become a copy of that one that you picked. This means that if you're wanting to turn all of your tokens into a copy of the Cybermen Squadron you would need to have a token version of the Squadron at the start of your combat. If you can pull that off, then yes, this would be quite an explosive thing. If you had 9 tokens before combat and one of them is a Squadron, then you'd make a Myr and turn all 10 of the tokens into Squadrons, so that means that all of your nonlegendary artifact creatures, includes your 10 Squadrons, would all have 10 different instances of Myriad, it stacks. So once you attack with those 10, each one will create two more assuming you're in a 4-player game, so you'd have 30 5/5 creatures out attacking, 10 at each opponent.
Would token copies created with myriad get +2/+2 from elesh norn on the board; from being a persistent effect?
Yup, that +2/+2 from Norn is always applying as a Static Effect, any new creatures that exist on the BF after the Norn has hit the BF will also have it applying to them. If the Norn were to leave the BF, then the effect would instantly stop applying to all of the creatures on the BF, it wouldn't linger around until the end of the turn.
Would impact tremors trigger for each token? And could you sacrifice the tokens to something like goblin bombardment before they get exiled at end of turn?
For Impact Tremors, yes, it will see each of the token Creatures ETB and trigger for each one. For sacrificing them to the Bombardment, yes, you would be able to do that before you lose the tokens normally, but one thing to note on this is if you're getting the Myriad triggers from a Legendary Creature then you would not be able to sac them to the Bombardment. The "Legend Rule" would kick in as an SBA and before you would get Priority to activate the Bombardment you would have to pick one of the Legendary Creatures to stick around and then send the rest to your GY, and that again would happen so "fast" that you wouldn't be able to sac them yet.
Hi, what about a creature with infect/toxic itself. Do the tokens have infect/toxic?
Like if a creature with Infect printed on the card attacks with Myriad? Then yes, the tokens created from Myriad would have Infect as well.
So I got a bit of a silly question and I get the feeling for the answer is no but let's say there are four players playing and one player is knocked out it goes back to my turn and I swing with myriad creatures do I still make the extra tokens for the players that are knocked out but they just don't have an attack Target I'm guessing you just wouldn't make those tokens but I'm curious about it in terms of getting etbs off
@@Nalzir You would be correct in that you do not make a token copy that would be attacking them. When a player loses they are removed from the game entirely. Cards that would normally care about them no longer 'see' them.
Do legendary creatures have to be sacrificed?
Referring to the Legend Rule? If so, then yes that will occur, but an important note is that they are not technically sacrificed. They are simply going to the GY. Cards like Korvold, Fae-Cursed King or Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest would not trigger from the Legend Rule happening.
what about ninjitsu?
Are you asking if you can return one of the Myriad tokens as a payment for a Ninjutsu activation?
Ｐｒⓞм𝕠𝕤𝐌 🌸
Ummm... what?