It's amazing how much difference a foot or two makes. Each position completely different. That's why I don't always judge amps on UA-cam videos by how they mic them. Johan's da best, yo!
I really liked Position 6 with the room mic, and then again when you paired it with the close mic. It seems to make it sound twice as full, and it rolls off the proper amount of high end.
I like to face the amps towards a blank wall and place a cardioid or super cardioid condenser microphone facing the wall a few feet away to catch the reflections. Then I blend in this mic in with the rest for a natural room reverb effect.
1st position gave a realistic representation of watching a band in a bar where you're standing fairly close. 6th position gave an accurate representation of a more intimate distance, like a coffeehouse. Those seemed the most useful as far as room mic.
All very usable tones. Just like the rest of your comparison videos, it's all about what tone you're looking for in any given scenario. Thanks for doing this Johan.
For me, the room mic around the position 1-2 was definitely the richest sound. As it got closer, the lows and highs dropped out due to what I assume is phasing issues, giving an increasingly thinner sound, which was also evident at position 0. Having the room mic up in the corners definitely emphasized the reverb, though it was still a bit thin. As far as close miking, small movements around a single speaker really made very little difference. However, when the mic was moved a moderate distance away having it in the middle was again the most full sound. The more it moved to the left, the more phase cancellation removed both low end richness and some high end sparkle, leaving an increasingly thin upper-mid sound.
Position 0 and 3 sound the most pleasant and full to my ears. I agree with you when you say it sounds the most natural in position 0. Thanks for conducting this experiment! Cheers!
Mic placement is definitely a factor in getting a good guitar sound for sure. Very good tones indeed. Sounds to me like a combination of the close mic and varying room mics seems to give you a much larger tone. But for a band to record a song's backing track in the studio as a group (i.e. drummer, bass player, and rhythm guitarist), would introduce a new set of challenges. While it would be (and likely is in this day and age) easier to record all the parts of a song separately, there's something to be said about capturing an actual band performance. AC/DC is a good example - as I understand they would record the drums, bass and two rhythm guitars live in the studio with all the players going at the same time and all the parts going down concurrently. It's live in the studio, yet the guitars (at least on their older records from the 1970's and 1980's) had a very big and energetic sound. Their more recent records have the guitars sounding loud, but not really very powerful (IMO of course). It'd be nice to see you explore such situations and let us know how to best capture a solid group track, especially using today's digital technology.
Thanks, great feedback, Yeah in a full band recording the room sound can be used a lot less since the different guitar close mics covers that range. And the bigness comes from contrasting clues mics. The purpose of the room mic becomes to pop out of holes when the mix pauses
Position 6 and 8 for room mic, my pick,. I like that 0 point on the wall,. obvious different positions for what the record and performer might be going for, so, no such thing as perfect spot for all albums and styles. within amp range it seems it doesn't make a difference how close it is because the left and right axis or X axis is more important to getting the right sound. A good three or four variables available. Good to know. Great video. Technical video at it's best.
It looked like the PU selector on your LP was in the middle, but the mic placement at times gave the sound more of a neck or bridge PU voicing. I imagine the placement can as well phase the individual pickup voicings to be more or less prominent. It would be interesting to test this with a LP and Marshall, see if you can get an approximation of the bridge PU sound with the mid position selected and mic placement.
Excellent video Johan! Thanks for this. I'm a mic positioning freak lol. I think I noticed that the 2x12 is a bit more forgiving for some reason. With a 4x12 I get very different sounds by moving the mic just two centimetres, whereas with my 2x12 I had to make bigger adjustments to get the same variation in tone.
I feel like we just got a peek behind the curtain and saw the Wizard! Nah, Johan is still The Wizard of Tone in my book :-) Thanks for sharing your wizard-like secrets with us. God bless and rock on bro!
Great video again! Wouldn't it make sense to not worry at all about phase during recording, find your 2 favourite positions (1 close, one room) and just phase allign them later in the DAW?
I admit I did not watch the whole video. But a trick I find is effective is to put one of the mics behind the cabinet pointing to the speaker if the cabinet is open. If this was in the video my apologies.
my experience with close micing, is that any mic on quite every position is fine on a cleanish crunch sound. However, it's trickier with saturated sound, as there is more high mid. Would be great to the same experiment a marshall plexi on full
4 and 6 were my favorites, and I have to say 4 was my overall favorite. I liked them best with only the room mic, but even with the close mic added, 4 and 6 were my favorites. Of the close mic positions, I liked the first one the best. Is that right in the center of the speaker? Angled slightly to the right at the cone? 6:43
Excellent video. Would not have considered room mic position 0 myself but it sounds great. Wonder how it would work with a figure 8 though, considering the phase?
That Beyer ribbon mic sounds great and seems to be very forgiving of mic placement and angle of capsule. Combo (open back) amps are somewhat more forgiving of mic placement than say a closed back 4x12 as well. You kind of made it look too easy to get a good guitar sound Johan.
Hey Mr. Segeborn is their any way you could do more traynor amp's i have a beautiful sounding 1975 Traynor yrm-1sc reverb master was wanting to know what you think about this amp.....Thank you very much for your vids i do love them .....
Johan, does it make sense to mic an amp cabinet and send it to PA monitors for bedroom practice? I am trying to get similar sound/feeling that I hear in small gigs. Not interested in recording.
Don't you think using a LOOPER for this kind of repetitive experiment would be better/easier/more consistent than you playing over & over mate? Good demo on mic placement!
..this vidtut/experiment is serendipity like parralel to my virtual GB nobbie explorations ( now on hold to less busy Jan,) but, i bought/ installed VISUAL MIXER by BLUE MANGO,..to little iPadMini 4 , my sound studio, virtuelle. U can make virtual mono or stereo trax, move the, sound on stereo field, and depth of room reverb, is u add 3 basic distances as isotope ad claims it ptesets, or, other new reberb apps. But, since, i lack both actual hardware equipment, experiential knowledge say like Joe Walsh, EC , ect. Ever mind playing skills, this videogives me a virtual idea. Of sjat to. Perhaps try in GB, even guitar shop next year, to buy a small actual amp, but, live on am apt. can’t mic it so, i check out Johan, and a frw other yt sites like Fender, and other amp makers. I prefer HUMAN PLAYED MISIC to AI, but, signal processing of even analog sources as amp is pretty mich digital, well, even ,of know an all tube studio, it still getd mastered, compressed down to stream. ps this video, may sound very imteresting in new ios/OS WITH 7.1 surround sound? Bigger? Wider? Deeper? Anyone here know. ThankU all. Adios! Bye 👻🎸
It's amazing how much difference a foot or two makes. Each position completely different. That's why I don't always judge amps on UA-cam videos by how they mic them. Johan's da best, yo!
Thanks my friend ;-)
I really liked Position 6 with the room mic, and then again when you paired it with the close mic. It seems to make it sound twice as full, and it rolls off the proper amount of high end.
yeah man position 6 sounds much better then the others for me too. the question is, how does this go for a cranked plexi?
Thanks!
I like to face the amps towards a blank wall and place a cardioid or super cardioid condenser microphone facing the wall a few feet away to catch the reflections. Then I blend in this mic in with the rest for a natural room reverb effect.
Interesting! I’ll have to try that!
Very cool. This shows that not putting a mic right on the grill and giving it a couple inches to breathe is very helpful.
1st position gave a realistic representation of watching a band in a bar where you're standing fairly close. 6th position gave an accurate representation of a more intimate distance, like a coffeehouse. Those seemed the most useful as far as room mic.
WOW! Such a variety of tones. Will definitely be trying this out
Glad to hear it, Cheers!
All very usable tones. Just like the rest of your comparison videos, it's all about what tone you're looking for in any given scenario. Thanks for doing this Johan.
Thanks Jon!
Yes! I love your recording techniques videos, extremely interesting and helpful!
Thanks man, great to hear that!
For me, the room mic around the position 1-2 was definitely the richest sound. As it got closer, the lows and highs dropped out due to what I assume is phasing issues, giving an increasingly thinner sound, which was also evident at position 0. Having the room mic up in the corners definitely emphasized the reverb, though it was still a bit thin.
As far as close miking, small movements around a single speaker really made very little difference. However, when the mic was moved a moderate distance away having it in the middle was again the most full sound. The more it moved to the left, the more phase cancellation removed both low end richness and some high end sparkle, leaving an increasingly thin upper-mid sound.
Position 0 and 3 sound the most pleasant and full to my ears. I agree with you when you say it sounds the most natural in position 0. Thanks for conducting this experiment! Cheers!
Glad to hear it, Cheers!
Very helpful! Formed strong opinions quickly. I like #2 position on room mic. Probably #1 on the first close-mic test.
Thanks!
Hi, Johan!
Thank you for the video, I saved it for the future plans. Have a nice weekend!
Zigfrid
Glad to hear it! Have a great weekend you too, Zigfrid! Cheers
I can't wait! Thank you Johan.
Cheers Szymon!
I've been looking forward to this one for years Johan! Thanks! :)
Thanks, glad to hear that!
Mic placement is definitely a factor in getting a good guitar sound for sure. Very good tones indeed. Sounds to me like a combination of the close mic and varying room mics seems to give you a much larger tone.
But for a band to record a song's backing track in the studio as a group (i.e. drummer, bass player, and rhythm guitarist), would introduce a new set of challenges. While it would be (and likely is in this day and age) easier to record all the parts of a song separately, there's something to be said about capturing an actual band performance. AC/DC is a good example - as I understand they would record the drums, bass and two rhythm guitars live in the studio with all the players going at the same time and all the parts going down concurrently. It's live in the studio, yet the guitars (at least on their older records from the 1970's and 1980's) had a very big and energetic sound. Their more recent records have the guitars sounding loud, but not really very powerful (IMO of course).
It'd be nice to see you explore such situations and let us know how to best capture a solid group track, especially using today's digital technology.
Thanks, great feedback, Yeah in a full band recording the room sound can be used a lot less since the different guitar close mics covers that range. And the bigness comes from contrasting clues mics. The purpose of the room mic becomes to pop out of holes when the mix pauses
Position 6 and 8 for room mic, my pick,. I like that 0 point on the wall,. obvious different positions for what the record and performer might be going for, so, no such thing as perfect spot for all albums and styles. within amp range it seems it doesn't make a difference how close it is because the left and right axis or X axis is more important to getting the right sound. A good three or four variables available. Good to know. Great video. Technical video at it's best.
Close mic in combination with position 2, 4 or 6. Some intervals between sounded less full. Nice sounds.👌
Thanks!
It looked like the PU selector on your LP was in the middle, but the mic placement at times gave the sound more of a neck or bridge PU voicing. I imagine the placement can as well phase the individual pickup voicings to be more or less prominent. It would be interesting to test this with a LP and Marshall, see if you can get an approximation of the bridge PU sound with the mid position selected and mic placement.
Thanks Lucas, that’s a great idea
Excellent video Johan! Thanks for this. I'm a mic positioning freak lol. I think I noticed that the 2x12 is a bit more forgiving for some reason. With a 4x12 I get very different sounds by moving the mic just two centimetres, whereas with my 2x12 I had to make bigger adjustments to get the same variation in tone.
Thanks man, yeah you’re right, The more the speakers there are the bigger the risk of phase cancellation is for a given position. Cheers
I feel like we just got a peek behind the curtain and saw the Wizard! Nah, Johan is still The Wizard of Tone in my book :-) Thanks for sharing your wizard-like secrets with us. God bless and rock on bro!
Thanks my friend :-)
Excellent timing for this video! I'm recording tracks today :)
Thanks Justin :-) Happy recording!
looking forward my friend...... cheers from Crete
Cheers from Sweden my friend!
Ela!
Great video again! Wouldn't it make sense to not worry at all about phase during recording, find your 2 favourite positions (1 close, one room) and just phase allign them later in the DAW?
I admit I did not watch the whole video. But a trick I find is effective is to put one of the mics behind the cabinet pointing to the speaker if the cabinet is open. If this was in the video my apologies.
Haha! No not in this one. Interesting method though. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn It is actually a pretty common method if it is an open or semi open cabinet :)
You have to phase invert in though in DAW.
I like close mic plus room 1 position the best
Sounds really big but still defined
Thanks. Chance!
@@JohanSegeborn let me know when u find a dirty shirley 40 watt to rent
@@JohanSegeborn man of my word I'll pay pal u to help with the cost
yo that is some usefull information right there. thanks.
if only i had the same amp and mic.... :)
Thanks Vappo :-)
I always wondered how the tone of openback combo amps changed depending on how close to the wall you put them.
That’s a good idea for a video!
my experience with close micing, is that any mic on quite every position is fine on a cleanish crunch sound. However, it's trickier with saturated sound, as there is more high mid. Would be great to the same experiment a marshall plexi on full
That’s a good point, I do that in this video
ua-cam.com/video/QvkLhjydixg/v-deo.html
Positioning the amp or speaker box in a "good" position in a room makes room-mic placement more enjoyable.
Yeah indeed but often it’s given by the room geometry
This is great. Thank you!
not so quick here doing metric conversions in my head, lol.
;-)
4 and 6 were my favorites, and I have to say 4 was my overall favorite. I liked them best with only the room mic, but even with the close mic added, 4 and 6 were my favorites. Of the close mic positions, I liked the first one the best. Is that right in the center of the speaker? Angled slightly to the right at the cone? 6:43
Thanks yeah I think so. Maybe slightly off center to the right. Cheers
@@JohanSegeborn Never saw you commented back. Thanks for getting back to me! Cheers
Excellent video. Would not have considered room mic position 0 myself but it sounds great. Wonder how it would work with a figure 8 though, considering the phase?
Thanks JB, That’s an interesting proposition, I have never used figure 8s at that distance
That Beyer ribbon mic sounds great and seems to be very forgiving of mic placement and angle of capsule. Combo (open back) amps are somewhat more forgiving of mic placement than say a closed back 4x12 as well. You kind of made it look too easy to get a good guitar sound Johan.
Thanks man! Yeah check out 4x12 here ua-cam.com/video/QvkLhjydixg/v-deo.html
@@JohanSegeborn Haha High Gain Johan
5 years ago and you still have no shoes.......
Keep up the good work!
Hey Mr. Segeborn is their any way you could do more traynor amp's i have a beautiful sounding 1975 Traynor yrm-1sc reverb master was wanting to know what you think about this amp.....Thank you very much for your vids i do love them .....
Thanks John! Yeah absolutely, I’ll see if I can find one
@@JohanSegeborn Thank's Mr. Segeborn Your Such a great person have a good weekend.............
Have a great weekend you too John!
Really makes those mikes sound like a Plexi
;-)
Johan, does it make sense to mic an amp cabinet and send it to PA monitors for bedroom practice? I am trying to get similar sound/feeling that I hear in small gigs. Not interested in recording.
Don't you think using a LOOPER for this kind of repetitive experiment would be better/easier/more consistent than you playing over & over mate? Good demo on mic placement!
Thanks, yeah a looper would really shine here ;-)
@@JohanSegeborn WHY I got a TRIO+! Its on the fly backing might be handy as well!
2 and 5 are best clear big and precise
Thanks Magnus!
Johan... do you think a looper would have helped you here?
Yeah, absolutely
Position 4 sounded really good! Just me?
Nope, for me too :> 5th one is also good.
Johan have you compared speaker mounting screw pressure??
No, but I have to confess that I’d like to. :-)
What did you do on mike position 6 to make it sound so good?
6 all the way!!!!!!!!
@2:12 Rollings Stones..
I liked position 2 A LOT , the closer it gets , the worse it sounds IMO
..this vidtut/experiment is serendipity like parralel to my virtual GB nobbie explorations ( now on hold to less busy Jan,) but, i bought/ installed VISUAL MIXER by BLUE MANGO,..to little iPadMini 4 , my sound studio, virtuelle. U can make virtual mono or stereo trax, move the, sound on stereo field, and depth of room reverb, is u add 3 basic distances as isotope ad claims it ptesets, or, other new reberb apps. But, since, i lack both actual hardware equipment, experiential knowledge say like Joe Walsh, EC , ect. Ever mind playing skills, this videogives me a virtual idea. Of sjat to. Perhaps try in GB, even guitar shop next year, to buy a small actual amp, but, live on am apt. can’t mic it so, i check out Johan, and a frw other yt sites like Fender, and other amp makers. I prefer HUMAN PLAYED MISIC to AI, but, signal processing of even analog sources as amp is pretty mich digital, well, even ,of know an all tube studio, it still getd mastered, compressed down to stream. ps this video, may sound very imteresting in new ios/OS WITH 7.1 surround sound? Bigger? Wider? Deeper? Anyone here know. ThankU all. Adios! Bye 👻🎸
Thanks, glad to hear from you!
1 and 2 are the best imo.
Thanks
6 is just balanced
,I like 8 too
The only conclusion I got is that when Johan Segeborn plays you can put the mic anywhere. My own recordings, still a mess ... 🤣
Sorry but i don 't undersatnd at 3'42 you write M160 but we see the AKG on the video
I'm pretty pissed drunk atm too
Sudenly wang appears..
Twang
Yeah, twang is indeed in frequency range that is lost in some mic positions
@@JohanSegeborn yes, great to discover, thanks!!!
Thank you for not being american and not using the anglo saxon metric system...