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Guild Wars 2's Best And Worst World Bosses? (Core)
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- Опубліковано 15 сер 2024
- Reviewing and rating all the world bosses in the game, from the Shadow Behemoth to the Megadestroyer!
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00:00 - Skip to Start
0:40 - World Boss Tier List
25:21 - Outro
I have a bit of a special history with the Shadow Behemoth. It was my first world boss, and it appeared surprisingly while I was viewing the vista in the swamp that actually focuses the exact part where the Behemoth breaks out of the ground. My first thought was something along the lines of: "Wait! What is happening? WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?"
it is located purposely at a place so you come around it accidentally. many people have the same experience.
@@xecor4450 Oh, I don't doubt that for a second. Now, with world boss timer and people in map chat calling it, you can even time using the vista with a little bit of luck.
It's awesome design, quite literally so when you don't expect anything like that to happen like back when everybody was a clueless newbie.
@@shizanketsuga8696 it's one of the key memories that made me fall in love with the game a great early world boss
I would love love love sooo much if Anet would do big core game overhaul... and buff/fix/enhance old, core world bosses, orr temples especially. I myself have a big list of all the changes I would love to see for each world boss, but I never got to the point where I feel brave enough to put it online somewhere. I really liked your commentary here
I wish they updated dungeon rewards. Like i dont even want new content or bug fixes just give me something new to buy with my dungeon tokens
....can we have 50 minute version in a couple weeks time when your patience recovers?
Triple Trouble has a special place in my heart, it always felt like this really intimidating mystery to me, and it was many years before I actually decided to really try and complete the event and understand what was happening. I think it has hit the sweetspot when it comes to how difficult world bosses should be to feel like they're actually a threat, and not just a big loot piñata. It's obviously easier now than when it was first introduced into the game, but it's still a challange, you need organisation, it has mechanics that makes it less susceptible to power creep, it's all around just a really well designed world boss encounter imo. I might be wrong, since I'm by no means an expert on either Guild Wars 2 or World Boss design in general, all I know is, I love it.
5-6 years ago I stumbled on a guild who's whole purpose was teach others how to do this boss. I joined them for the rest of my play-time till I went to college. It's sad to know guild is gone now that I've come back but this boss us just so interesting on each of the roles involved. Nice to read it had a similar impresion on others
@@cladesaffero3818 triple trouble squad is still around, i see them advertising and calling when the boss is up, organizing the command parties. if you manage to get a full map at the right time it's still a fun boss
I'm personally even more interested in conversation about world bosses from expacs and living world.
I think many of them are super fun and very cool. Don't know how interesting they are for people who wants more challenge or farm rewards but I just really enjoy them because they are fun to play.
Melandru will always hold a special place in my heart, cause I looted dusk from that meta, and made my first legendary, twilight, with that pre-cursor. I don't do it as much anymore, but I'll never forget that first pre drop :)
These days Triple Trouble has become more of a highlight feature of GW2s very kind guilds and communities, willing to herd a hundred randos through to victory and various achievements.
I started playing this game about a month ago and shadow behemoth was my first ever boss encounter and I just loved everything about it I can’t wait to experience all of the other bosses that you mentioned to see for myself how great or lacking they may be! Btw really love your guides and I’m subbing to your channel for all the future content you’ll be making! Big props man and keep it up 👊
This made me install GW2 after 3-4 years. You just have a way to hype me up for the game!
I hate the Risen High Wizard, who here remembers that the event would bug out and you could not play the Arah dungeon for weeks on end.
I remember the rush after an update to get Arah dungeon open before the event would bug again and the dungeon would be inaccessible for weeks.
I never looked at the boss
As soon as you said "did I miss any" the first thing that popped into my head was The Fire Shaman in Iron Marches. I remember doing that boss a lot back in the day (ie several years ago). I think it counts as being the Boss of the Iron Marches, reward chest for it is once a day still I presume.
I agree, and it's such an underrated fight because it doesn't have any special drops like Ogre Wars or Rhendak, so no one ever bothers to do the fight. And with Rhendak it would only need a ban on teleport skills and in turns up the drop chance a bit and people would actually get to experience this pretty cool mini dungeon and one of the few true underwater fights we have to date which is actually quite challenging with 1-2 people. But thanks to teleport, people just piggyback in there which is such a shame.
It's not about Taidha Covington. It's about her super tanky door.
Claw of jormag having a vendor unlock was atleast something slightly more interesting too. Especially since it had the Icy stones for Legendaries - though this felt odd why you would even do 100 of single item.
I think they did this so that players could buy them a little bit at a time, because back in the first years of gw2 gold was a lot harder to farm than nowadays for most players
Main disagreement I got with this list is how highly you place The Shadow Behemoth. While it has one of the most spectacular looking world bosses, its gameplay is horrendus. It is more challenging to move from the shamoor to the location of the boss than it is to fight it. It suffers from the same issue most worldbosses have in that it is stuck in one position for the whole fight. Sure it got to be simple cause it is in a starting zone, but movement is one of those basic things even level 1 players got to figure out, and unlike many other bosses, this one has no excuse to not move. Its a giant floaty shadow ghost, it needs no animation for moving, or at the very least, turning! You got a whole swamp worth of space to do interesting things in, yet it just stands there.
There is so much potential design with this fights premise, that I got to rate it really low for not delivering. Just imagine it creating portals to the underworld for mid phases similar to Drakkar, or using the fact that the whole arena is a swamp to have weird stuff emerge from the water you are standing in.
Definitely agree with this ! I was amazed the first time I saw it but its such a simple fight. And I was actually saddened to find they had nerfed the champions out of the starting zone. Having champions in a starting area to me meant this game means business ! (they had horrible rewards though)
I love the Megadestroyer, but my god the screen shake when he's about to spawn is hilarious haha
you forgot about the Karka Queen, but really, who could blame you?
There's a Karka Queen in Core?
@@davidgustavsson4000 in Southsun. It's one of the hard bosses, like Teq and TT
@@veroniquegallant9849 I knew about that one, didn't think Southsun counts as core.
Hey WP, you mention how you can’t control the spawn of triple trouble. Which may have been true back at its launch, but now you can guild spawn it when ever you want.
I was wondering about this, too, as my guild had spawned the wurm many times by ourselves - but I just returned after a year long break.
They should make Tripple Trouble in to a instance like Dragon Storm and the Marionette fight. This way they wont take player slots from the map and also maybe make it more often because as it is now not many are doing it and jumping in on it in the last second is always a fail.
They should also remake Jormag fights and especially now when we had Jormag in the season and i thought they really would make that happen then but it did not happen. Jormag deserve a remake because powercreep and the support we have now makes everything boring and you can ignore everything.
personally i've had a lot of enjoyment in all the world bosses
as a vet player of gw2 i would love to see some reworks though
1) shadow behemoth. it is visually such a cool fight, but the boss itself feels a little off, if i'd get to rework this i'd use those giant hands to make sweeping attacks, it's a starting zone boss so it doesn't need 1 hit kill attacks, but having attacks that are well telegraphed would be great, teaching new players to dodge and when to dodge, having a cone attack that can just knock people down dropping their DPS would be cool.
2) Claw of jormag, I LOVED this fight when i first saw it, the pre-event with the claw flying in the sky and the soldiers telling the flak cannons to aim at the sky and then you shoot at it and it drops, visually it's FANTASTIC. mechanically it's really boring... definitely deserves a tequatl esque update
3) fire elemental doesn't really feel like a world boss, the damage is great but the boss itself drops like a fly, it's a bit dull. definitely needs a higher HP pool
i'd just increase most HP pools in general, get tequatl and shatterer back up to being a bit more menacing than just a giant chicken (hehe, remember the commando april 1st reveal? good times)
please do. With so much content, I forget to do some of these. This can be a nice reminder. It might also get people playing some of the these maps and events.
To be honest, I don't remember anything about Triple Trouble besides that it took a ton of people and was very annoying. I also don't remember any of the temples besides Balthazar for the shards and Lyssa of the design. I personally agree with your tier list, but I'd rank claw of Jormag and shatterer in S tier.
Inquest Golem MKII is actually one of my favorite world bosses in core. Not entirely sure why. May be engaging me more because it's not too easy (unlike quite a few core bosses these days thanks to power creep). You have to somewhat know what you're doing to survive and yet, it's a pretty straight forward fight. The Bosses with more mechanics that require players to spread out and fight in different places and such are cool but to me it often ends up feeling like I just do a small event of many instead of having a big boss fight. This reminds me of the marionette. I missed the marionette during season 1 so I looked forward to trying it when it came back. I heard so much praise for it. When I tried it I was really dissapointed. Most of the boss fight was just fighting waves of mobs while waiting for your one and only turn to do anything interesting. I'd love some kind of reuse of the boss where you don't defend in the lanes at all and you instead take part of all the stages of the fight and fight all the mini bosses. I'm not expecting many others to feel the same way. It's just my personal feeling about it. And I like variation so it's not like I want all bosses to work only like the golem either. I'm also only speaking about how I feel about the bosses now. Don't really remmeber how I felt about them before power creep and such.
This just made me realize how many World Bosses I haven't done in ages. I haven't done those Orr meta events in forever.
I've got additions to two world bosses you mentioned here. One is, I recently noticed that the fight against Claw of Jormag changed (probably due to more healing builds being around) and people stack directly in front of the ice wall in the first half and directly on the claw in the second half and just outheal the permanent damage. That also makes the whole golem thing totally obsolete.
Second thing is about Lyssa. I love the fight and there are cool drops and I'd gladly do her more often if it wasn't for the fact that she hardly ever happens. The event to make her spawn again is so ridiculously easy that anyone walking by can do it singlehandedly and there's always someone doing it and preventing it from even happening in the first place. THAT is the biggest turn off for me about Lyssa.
Ideas for a video:
Variant a) Brief History of the Styles and "Flashyness" of GW2 Gemshop Armor and Costumes compared to ingame (non gemshop) Skins from the same period of time (like LS Seasons + DLCs). Not talking about Infusions here, but the same thing could work for them too.
Variant b) a tier list of the best styles from Gemshop (Armor + Costumes) from your perspective, what general theme they belong to and where this theme fits into the *GW2 world and lore* (or not fits).
Update Claw. Increase Megadestroyer size by 100-150%.
Hah when you mentioned the bugs with triple trouble i was actually in that world attempt map you were co-commanding in that teamspeak server. the dev had to come in and confirm crimson was bugged. Magic times for Guild wars 2
I think you did a really good job with this list! I would definitely be interested in seeing your opinion on the remaining world bosses
Well, this was a welcome trip down memory lane.
Awesome video as always WP. It would be interesting to see you make a tier/ranked list of guild wars 2 factions (vigil, priory, seraph, wolfborn, etc). Ranked based on influence, usefulness, etc in the story and to the races of tyria.
Imagine if he forgot to hit the record button on the second try, I think would ragequit life at that point xD
Excellent tier list. I hope these are performing well for you because I can't get enough of them.
For a long time I considered The Rhendak the Crazed to be charr's starting zone world boss base on the reward structure back in early game release days (the boss chest and the daily pop-up chest). But I dont consider it to be world boss anymore.
You made me sad from nostalgia, thinking back to the Orr-wide metal event leading up to the High Priest! I find it intriguing that the two most profitable events in Orr (all the mobs at Melandru and the gates of Arah) are the ones you don't like..
For ideas --> The "mini dungeons" and hidden gem event chains. I've been through central Tyria world completion around 20 or so times, and each time I've found something new. Pretty incredible after 9 years!
Thanks for keeping at it with the videos.
The worst thing to lose footage of is something that is only Unique the first time, a can that can never be reopened again. I lost a lot of footage in my vids for making The Colossus for Juggernaut that I had to just backfill with exposition on what I'd done. So I feel your pain. :(
My take away: WP "Likes Worms" ;)
The soundtrack on some of these boss fights is my favorite part. I always turn up the volume on Teq and Claw. Right before the Teq fight begins, if you listen to the frog guys discussing the battle to come, you can hear the fear in their voices. Brothers, sisters ready yourselves....Tequatl is here.....Outstanding!
I like these tier list videos! Would like to see one of every exploreable area in the game (quite a big tier list though)
Respect for making another video after just loosing all that footage
I would say Tripple Trouble will always be S Tier. To this day it still remains one of the hardest boss to beat even with the power creep. The argument that you would have to wait for the event to spawn kinda applies to all bosses. But with their patch to allow guilds to spawn world bosses it kind of removes that factor with that you could also kind of claim a map :) I know back in the old days we would join up in a group before all tp into a map to spawn a new one in hopes we can fill it with everyone that was in the group oh the good old days.
My problem with Claw of jormag is the 2nd part. You just don't do much.
And form the 4 starter WB, the one i least like is the FE. It's just boring!!!
3:50 sooo true
only one other thing comes to mind on this topic and that is pinata, they both can even after being not a new content bring my fps down a lot
I loved tequatl when it first came out 💕 my main still wears the back piece from it
Triple Trouble and Tequatl brings back good memories of Attuned..
record in .mkv
if something goes wrong before a mp4 file is properly finished, it will be entirely corrupted
in mkv, sections might get corrupted somehow, but it will still play the uncorrupted bits. if you prefer to work on mp4 for some reason, that is no problem, just remux it after you recorded from mkv into mp4
Hmm wouldnt Ley Line Anomaly be considered also as core game meta boss ?
the anomaly was S3 content, i really dont think that counts
@@LordDumpling It was aded in S3 but it is a Meta boss in core game maps. Think it should count where the boss is and not when it was added.
Only thing I would say in regards to Claw of Jormag is when I was first looking into playing GW2 I saw a trailer of Claw falling out of the sky and slamming into the mountain and then I realized that wasn’t a raid or a cinematic that was a world boss that I could go and fight. At that point I was sold, so yeah it may not be the best by any means but I’ll always remember it as what got me into the game.
It's interesting to see that tier list but I suppose You face similar problems as with some other ones - i.e. the world boss event nowadays being completely different experience to what it was when it was designed/released and therefore som discrepancies start to trickle down ;)
Anyway, I wanted to leave a comment because I was surprised to see Jormag's Claw so low. It's interesting to see because my personal experience was completely different one. I've always (long before it was considered 'viable') wanted and played a healing core-guardian. And Jormag's Claw was the first (and only?) World Boss event when that build felt really useful. The damage over time mechanic was a perfect match for my ticking healing build that could help people stay dealing damage for longer periods of time. And seeing those green numbers pop out on a World Boss event was perfect. It was almost like I would be playing some mini-game :)
That being said - yeah, my personal experience of Jormag's Claw was one of the best events for me because it gave me hope that my healing builds might have a place in this game ;)
During the GW2 Beta, the Fire mage in the Char starter area was basically a world boss, shame they nerfed the crap out of him.
fire ele is definitely d tier. I've played for years and I still don't know any of the fight's mechanics. it just dies in about half a minute every time. It's an AA fest
He used to be scary pre Living World 2
The Temples seem so rarely done, even when you are VERY actively searching for people to do them with for achievements and collections. I think they just fell into irrelevance. Every time I've needed one of these events in the past years, I've had to spam every guild I am in and beg beg beg for help. Sometimes you can catch one of them it if the stars perfectly align with your own timing, the map you're on (the elder wood harvesters/bots fill up a certain map in particular so badly that I can't imagine that meta succeeds these days), the time of day IRL, and the odd chance that anyone else is there seeking to complete the event (aka achiev/collection, these days) at the same time you are. I can't see putting them at high tiers based on nostalgia, alone, though. The fact is that they are damn near impossible to find a group to do with and have been this way for many years.
I think the rest of the tier list is pretty darn good, though! One thing that always seems to shock my friends when they start playing GW2 is how very long the planning/forming of squads/pre's can take for certain events. It's one thing to just want to get on a Teq map before they all fill up, it's another thing completely to have a 45 minute prep period before a meta actually begins moving and the pre-events begin. I'm talking about TT here, specifically. Taidha is another slow-mo event that generally leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths in my experience, though I don't mind it at all. In terms of the amount time spent to actual reward, TT can be a bit frustrating. While TT is an intricate, interesting encounter that I've been involved in comm'ing many times before, it takes a certain level of patience - that's for sure. You kind of go to be a part of the event itself, and can't expect much in terms of reward aside from the "We did it!" moment (ask EVOS members who run it daily and got 1 ascended box or less in a period of 6 years, etc, RNG is brutal in the Bloodtide Coast!). A lot of newcomers leave before the event begins, which is too bad, but I can't fault them if all they see is 100 people sitting/afk'ing near a hillside for 40+ minutes when they just want to play a game. If you have a large chunk of time to burn though, and aren't expecting amazing rewards or attempting to farm WB's efficiently for gold, TT is definitely worth a visit for the experience alone. Super fun; but also super long and not too rewarding in terms of loot.
I wasn't sure if this list was for 2021 or more of a nostalgia thing, if it was the latter then disregard the feedback! A+ if it's a nostalgia tier list, then it hits all the marks.
To be fair that's the case with Orr in general, there are far too many maps for all of them to be populated consistently and the most populated areas are the newest content for obvious reasons (proper tuning, modernized content and increased rewards with map currencies among others) I honestly think the "Return to" meta achievement was absolutely fantastic for spreading out the playerbase throughout those maps and would honestly prefer if they updated and revisited some maps rather than just constantly add new ones. I absolutely loved Siren's Landing as an update to Orr and wish they completed the place for good
I'm a big Charr player and honestly i don't know if i feel cheated, all the early World Bosses are kinda meh, i got to experience The Shatterer as my first world boss and that was a jaw dropper. He's def S Tier for me, even if its just nostalgia.
It went full circle in Season 4 too, who's by far my favorite part of the story.
Hasn't Claw of Jormag received an update? Unless my memory fails me, the whole second phase wasn't in and we were just killing it on the hill it lands on. There was no flamethrowers, melting golems and all that stuff.
revamped shatterer could have easily be S tier, i remember painstakingly documenting all the possible flight and crystal timers
but Anet screw it up twice
first, no better reward for getting no flight means there isn't a lot of incentive for those already got the AP
second, added waystation completely ignored the things they had built for the encounter; waystation in general pretty much broke every boss in game
Triple Trouble & Tequatl are the best no doubt in my mind. First time I jumped the waves@Tequatl or got swallowed@Triple I was in love.
I honeslty want more of this.
I would love to see some of these be changed, in ways you suggest, or even in different ways.
If you have to redo something you want to put passion into, stop, wait, and come back to it later when you've emotionally recovered from the loss and the anguish isn't so fresh. You might even do it better the second time if you just put a day in-between.
The Shadow Behemoth has those huge ass claws and he doesn't take any swipes at anyone. Such a letdown after killing the SB a few times and realizing you just run around in a circle and DPS for a few seconds to run around in a circle again.
I didnt even know there was Risen High Wizard, and i've been playing since launch, its the guy from the splash art, lol
18:15 Recently I find that Scourge can help ppl stand in the frozen zone without dying. It can increase the speed of the wall fight(lol). Hope more players can join. That's fun
Have never been in a Triple Trouble event that has completed successfully, people always seem to have trouble with the Cobalt head, Must have done the event at least a dozen times.
If I've learned anything from this, it's that a little bit of difficulty tuning on the devs part would literally raise the rating of the whole game by a tier.
Very very likely, yeah.
Did they remove the underwater part from Tequatl? Ive only done it since 2017 and it's just standing and shooting it boss
I think it's quite appropriate that you don't rank the Fire Elemental in Iron Marches, because most of the time I forget it even exists until I stumble upon it during map completion.
It's kinda "shame" you had to end it with "low note" with the High Wizard, but I get what you say, tho I never thought about it. But yeah, this boss should be maybe the BEST of them all, as it is the last 1. Maybe because Anet didn't see it as a WORLD BOSS as Teq, etc? Here hoping, again, for a Tyria Core HUGE update.
Nonetheless, this was a fun video to watch/listen to, thank you! :D
I would like Arenanet to do a little development in the in-depthness of meta events and chaining events in general... It might inspire me to stop flying over the entire map. I would like to have incentive to play through the maps as the mission progression did in gw1... some more multi-step dynamic events, some more scaling... they could do something w/ the fields of ruin... I went for years not knowing that map was there... perfect map to just use as a meta-event sandbox.
if they were to do even a mild overhaul on the in-depthness of events and backstory, that would warrant an expansion all together, which I would buy
I miss gw2, got login problem codes in april, and sadly customer support seems not be abled to help
the destroyer dragons were eventually added as the bosses in draconic monds. I think its funny I played this game since day one and today I learnd the name of the boss we fight in the gates of Arah is the risen high wizard haha. I always just call it and see it listed as gates of arah.
Hey WP, I recently made a community vote for the best Guild Wars area on the GW1 subreddit. I think it'd be fun if you made a tier list and compared the two!
Yes PREACH WP! the no world boss in the plains of ashford does bother me!
World bosses look cool but too many of the large ones literally just stand there like statues. After the initial response to them wears off ones like shadow b, claw, basically all the large ones start looking pretty goofy just standing there. Especially when like sb literally does basically no attacks itself.
I know they won't, but do you think they should overhaul Claw and Megadestroyer (at a minimum) bring those dragons are dead? Would this bring health to the game or no noticeable difference?
*World raid bosses let's see it Anet!*
Technically the plains of Ashford do have a world boss (in my opinion): the ascalonian lieutenant. But he's really a downer. On your list he wouldn't even reach D tier.
As for the Risen High Wizard - this is one of the rare examples where you can hear "The Seraph" playing, one of the most awesome songs in the core game, by the fondly remembered Jeremy Soule, which is why he has a special place in my heart. (or maybe I confuse him with the end boss from the pale tree's vision after the Claw-Island-Story-Episode, not sure there)
i had to hit like becuase teq was my 2nd world boss but im dissapointed TT didnt make it to S becuase TT was my 1st world boss in gw2, and the idea of massive raid on world boss what hook me into gw2 and made me buy the expension, even after exploring both PoF and HoT i stil think TT and teq is my fav boss, i just hope they rework it and scale up make the fight harder.
I've watched a lot of vloggers upload videos anyway when their mics fail.
...
'cos with their facecams come an onboard audio recording - shit quality, but it probably beats take 2.
Just a thought on using a phone or something to record backup audio.
Map tier list, please!
damn, the only temple i knew of was the temple of lyssa
Sucks about the loss of time, but thanks for putting this one up!
Hey wp, I think you should just take the day off next time and redo it another day, if this happens again.
First you’re gonna be less tired and stressed about it mentally and physically, second is we could probably get the full version again since we love the tangents etc and full length content. Not that I hate this ofc, thanks for the upload!
Obsidian Shards are everywhere?? As a new player I’ve spent all my karma buying them from the temple multiple times.
Pvp reward tracks, wvw reward tracks, fractal vendors etc.
Triple Trouble should be converted to an instanced fight to avoid pug interference.
Ranking legendaries possible?
I don't dislike many of these boss fights, although I wish more of them would get a loot pass like Tequatl so they're a little more rewarding. Ig 1 gold per boss would be a bit much though, people would just farm world bosses all day at the expense of other content. I hate megadestroyer though. Like mechanically the fight is fine but the environment of the volcano is so hard on the eyes, and the pre events take a while and by the time the boss goes down I feel like I need a break from eye fatigue.
Make the next list on stream to make sure it is recorded lol
I swear 20% of your vids you've had to record multiple times
If you think risen high wizard is a letdown ending oh boy does arah story mode continue that trend.
Fractal tier list when?
WP : "I don't like the claw of Jormag"
Me : "UNSUBSCRIBE !!"
Sorry for the lost 50 mins 😔
Fun video!
The fact is that only what 4 of the world bosses have a chance at ascended items and the drop rate sucks its hardly worth the time. Better off doing meta events
I think you're a bit out of touch in terms of the OB shards comment, I still do that fight often and still need all the shards I can get. I find it really fun to do the event
really? do you mass produce legendries or something to sell? I've got like 8 stacks of that stuff sitting on a bank character taking up space
@@zaishenshield I mean in a way, I've made a bunch but I never have enough spirit shards, or obsidian shards it seems
I'd love a core overhaul but I think it's the copium talking.
I don't like mind bendingly difficult content in general pve maps. That's what raids and fractals are for. World bosses aren't meant to be super difficult content. And anyway pandering to youtubers who cried out for hardcore content is why heart of thorns flopped. So bosses like the triple worm I generally skip. I prefer being able to turn my brain off and face roll my kb. If I wanted the game to piss me off I would play War Thunder instead.
novimus
Buh-HEE-muth :)
Anyone else bothered by him saying Behmot instead of BEHEMOTH? 😹
The order you put everything is spot on. But I would put everything 1 tier lower. OG metas and bosses just aren't as compelling or difficult as newer ones, which in themselves aren't difficult, and I don't think they're a great advert for the game or newer players any more. They definitely need a dec pass to get closebto where they were at launch.
Does anyone else think the final tier list should be shaped like a bell curve?
B tier would have the most entries
A & C would have one orr two fewer than B
then S & D would only have one or two in them
First