I love the church scene when Aoi walks in there and Kariya's like, "Uh it wasn't me. I mean, I wanted too, and planned too, but I wasn't going to do it, though I definitely was, but I didn't do it...even though I wanted to. It's not what it looks like."
To be fair, this whole battle actually is a deadly dick measuring contest. So, it was gonna be awkward whoever "won". With the fact Tokiomi tried to present himself as honorable, but has several bits rigging it for him being a member of one of the Three Great Families. Not exactly "good" people in this equation, rather shades of grey.
@@RagnarokMasta I don't think really anyone is good in this war. In fact, you can argue that most of the masters are evil. The only decent one among them is Waver. All of the characters are complicated for sure.
@@UltraGman waver technically was a good guy. Like to the point where even after his "grandparents" realized they were brainwashed they still loved him like a son anyway. Waver was just a regular person with powers. And a pretty solid dude especially compared to the other mages
It's unfortunate that Lancelot was affected by Madness Enhancement cause I'm curious of what he would actually think of Kariya given his actions in life.
I actually think that berserker Lancelot was a perfect representation of his character both being corrupted love. Lancelot corrupted by his love for Arthur and gweneviere into madness and kariya corrupted by his love for the woman and her kids to the point of madness as well.
if he got any other lancelot that was still fully sane i can guarantee you that Tsiah wouldn't have had to say all this, lancelot would've already gotten the man back to his senses after the first 3 days
@Merlin Oblivion yes exactly. People fail to realize anything beyond the surface level, which is that he's pathetic, which he is. But, that perfectly ties in with the narrative! I don't particularly feel offended as some others feel, but I do respect how he synchronizes properly to the story.
All of this plus being attached to Lancelot - in Berserker form. Every master is paired to their servant for a reason and Kariya is no exception. Their stories parallel in an eerie way: Good men, with good intentions, doing the wrong thing for a forbidden woman despite claiming those good intentions. And it destroyed them both from the inside out. Dang.
@@johnsai4074 No he does. Saving Sakura is a good intention and he gave his life for it knowing he'd never get to spend time with her or Aoi again. You are quantifiably wrong.
@@jonboulet1614 I literally did Stop looking at the surface level, he’s being framed as a noble hero but he definitely isn’t one. Stop looking at what you’re presented and take a look at his actions. What has he done? He supposedly entered the grail war to win the grail and save sakura, but look at his actions. From the very start he’s not trying to win at all, he’s trying to kill tokiomi. He orders berserker to attack the literal strongest servant in the war, who had already “killed assassin” less than a day after the war started. Over the course of the war he rarely ever works towards winning, all he wants is to kill tokiomi in order to get revenge on him for “stealing” aoi from him. Yes he does care about sakura, but that clearly comes second to his love for aoi and hatred for tokiomi. Also, he is delusional and thinks aoi is trapped in her marriage. When aoi spells out that she doesn’t love him and loves tokiomi, he chokes her so hard that she literally gets permanent brain damage. (We see this in the epilogue, it’s actually pretty sad). He is delusional, irrational, naive and accomplished literally nothing. He may have had the intention to save sakura but his goal has always been to murder tokiomi so he can steal his wife and kids.
Kariya slander, I'm all in for it. And I'd add that he should have known that, once he left the Matou, Zouken would go and find another child from a different family, cause that's how mages operate when they don't have heirs. And guess which family lived right there in Fuyuki, had a "spare" daughter and ties with the Matou. But then he tries to act as if Zouken did something totally unexpected, like, wtf dude, you KNEW it was going to happen.
I think you're giving him too much credit there. Kariya isn't capable of thinking through consequences to that level. That level being ground floor, basic cause and effect from 100% known factors.
We’ll actually that’s not why he reacted the way he did. If it was any other Magnus child he wouldn’t have given a shit. It is only because Sakura is the child of his crush Aoi (wife of tokiomi) that he goes that far. Is is more because of love that he tries to rescue Sakura, and also guilt that he condemned a small girl like Sakura to the hell that is the worm pit.
@@SixthAllicard yes every member has to go through with the “training” method. The only reason Shinji and his dad didn’t go through said “training” was due to their utter lack of circuits. If they did then they would have definitely been thrown in there with Sakura.
Not really. He had no idea Tokiomi would have two daughters, and certainly wouldn't sell Sakura to a dying family like the Matou when there are better alternatives that don't involve torture. Kariya may have different motives that weren't all altruistic, but he most definitely didn't leave Sakura out in the cold by negligence from the outset. He was right to leave, but I'll put up what was really going on in my post, so I don't repeat myself.
@@garrettnewell374 When did Kariya sexually assault aoi on multiple occasions? like yes he takes over as magus but pulling a kariya would be like trying to save sakura by filling in because he sympathises with her, something shinji doesnt do, shinji did a shinji its purely because he wants to be grand pappies favourite and spites sakura for being forced against her own will, kariya was being selfless for selfish reasons whilst shinji is purely selfish.
@@DarthFhenix55 See Fate is a series where even the worst people have a sense of redeemability to them despite them being fucked, Shinji though is written in such an explicit way that you shouldn't feel sympathy it's why every single Shinji Matou counterpart is also a scumbag because you aren't supposed to feel sorry and I'm not gonna, the moment I feel sympathy for a rapist is the moment I give someone full permission to put me down in the most painful way possible.
@@jonboulet1614which makes it even worse wtf was he gonna do after killing tokiomi and stealing his wife and kids? They would of been homeless with his bumy ass
@@jonboulet1614 his wish are so nauseating and Gross he deserve nothing he can't blame anyone but himself if he really care About them he should understand there fellings and Recpect their decision instead He decide fight in pointless battle will end him get Eating by bugs how very foolish
Ok, I've never thought about Kariya like that. I'm an anime only, and I always assumed he had some type of corporate job and was making something of himself outside of magecraft. Seeing that he's canonically just kinda bumming around changes things. And that roast at the end fucking ended me XD
same, I kinda felt bad for him because I thought he truly cared for Rin and Sakura only to fail miserably at the end. He sure had me fooled the entire time he was on screen.
@@risekujikawa7763 No, Zouken really did want to make him a science experiment my guy. You can rightfully call him a pathetic simp, but he was right to leg it out of that house. Only reason his little brother and his brother's son Shinji isn't messed up is because they were actually useless.
@@RagnarokMasta yes he has the right to leave. But he doesn't have the right to even own up for it because its the kid of your crush. He basically could've went by in full ignorance or at the very least, not focus all of that energy on Tokiomi, since he himself has literally went for the dumbest course of action of returning to the Mato family.
Another difference between Kariya and Emiya is that although Emiya's hell was also self-imposed, he came to that hell by wanting to be a hero. He was a little boy who had the ideal of saving everyone, he ALWAYS looked out for others, he ALWAYS put others before him. An altruistic person who did not deserve to suffer. While Kariya was an egoist who only thought about himself.
I think an interesting idea for a story in the nasuverse could be about a normal human that doesn't come from any mage family and can't use magecraft discovering about mage crafts existence and then becoming obsessed and trying to do anything in their power to learn how to use magecraft even though it's impossible for them to do I think that can make for a really interesting story kind of like a opposite to kariya.
I agree, it would be an interesting idea to follow. Depending on the normal human's life played out it could be interesting seeing how they view the world of magecraft from the outside looking.
Heck it's how Waver Velvet's granny got started. Join the Archive of Our Own community and post your stuff if you ever feel like it. The Fate Fandom is pretty active there. :)
There’s actually a minor character in Fate/Strange Fake that’s like this, though he’s quickly killed off. His name is Galvarosso Scladio. His wife was an amateur mage killed by the Clock Tower. He thus wanted to understand her perspective as a mage but probably never really managed to. He just didn’t have the magical talent. But he created an American mafia family that shelters and employs mages. While he couldn’t control the group anymore, he created an impressive group in his lifetime. Honestly he can probably be considered the closest America has to a Clock Tower Lord.
I mean to be fair. If you actually knew all the crazy and messed up things that went down in the Zolken house. From mutating you’re body with bugs. Zolken’s obsession with the grail. To all the r@p£, that was happening to Sakura. Anyone with any sense would also probably want an out of the family as well. After isn’t it better to want to get out of all that crazy ness and toxicity than stay there?
You have an excellent point. Seeing how Sakura went from a sweet girl into well...(points at Dark Sakura). Yeah I'll be getting the f**k out of dodge myself.
Yeah but the problem is, he denounced the family and magecraft altogether and yet he can't make a damn thing to his name. Then came crawling back to ZOUKEN to ask for power just to simp for a woman that didn't even look at him!? What is the fucking logic here?
The thing is, he left the Mage world before Sakura was even fucking born. Plus he would've married her mother anyways if he stayed, the same women he fell in love with and still can't do a damn thing to prove himself. Even Gilgamesh and any Dead Apostle has more redeemable qualities than Kariya in proving themselves with their own name. By the time he returned, he was already crawling like a meaningless bug in front of the man he abandoned, a man so dedicated to Justeaze von Einzbern was completely disappointed in him and basically gave him a redemption arc that failed worse than his obsession fot Justeaze.
@@shinjiokami The problem with that interpretation (and also the video itself we're commenting under) is that we don't know enough about Kariya's struggles during and after he left his insane family to even come close to that kind of objective assessment. But even so, why not assume he just got unlucky in life to the extent where he could not "make a damn thing to his name" like most poor people? Just because some characters or people in the same situations managed to do something out of themselves to that extent, it doesn't mean all of them will (hell, there's most definitely a version of Kariya out there in Type-Moon multiverse that managed to overcome it with simple chance where ours couldn't, but we couldn't see it since no one cares now anyway). Most of the characters in Nasuverse that turned things around are in may senses simply outliers in the world of magecraft that is supposed to be full of cold inhumanity. That is always being made point of everywhere, which is exactly why we're getting more perspectives when someone managed to overcome stuff. Kariya's struggles seem to have been handled way more realistically than many of them and fitting more with the novel's theme of tragedy. All of this comes down to circumstance. For all we know, if Kariya decided not to ever come back to Fuyuki and forgetting about Aoi entirely, he could've very well "made a damn thing to his name" given some luck, but he didn't (perhaps even couldn't). After having such shit family to grow up in made him damaged at his core, things not going well in life, and later becoming deeply desperate for some kind of normalcy (which he tried finding in Aoi) makes complete sense. No doubt he visited Fuyuki just because of that and haven't planned crawling back to Zouken until Sakura came into picture. Kariya did not want power before seeings the Sakura situation right in front of him and realizing in the flesh that while you neglect living in hell yourself, someone else won't be spared, full of guilt. He probably came to Zouken not only out of anger at Zouken, but also at himself, and just life in general. Deluding himself that he maybe could actually make a difference by saving this one person, hanging on to newly found motivation/hope that maybe everything could still be turned around in Sakura's life, his, and Aoi's if good karma exist in this world. The descend into insanity from slowly killing himself with Berserker's energy consumption (and the bugs that were eating away at him) eventually made him more irritable and fixated more on Aoi the more desperate he got, as she was that last deep selfishly human desire that was now making him keep going to bear the pain a bit more. We know he was right about Tokiomi, Aoi was a shitty mother too, and Kariya deep down knows he's at fault for many things, even if his choice to not lead an insane life of magecraft that would've surely lead him to suffering and death was only natural. Of course, Kariya ended up doing what he did at the end, going sicko mode due to the combination of already being extremely unstable physically and mentally and running into a setup situation he couldn't predict, control, or get out of in his broken state of mind, the meeting that ruined his life more than it already was. Him still managing to come back for Sakura right before his death even after what he did was especially deep. Basically just good tragedy writing and there was clear logic in everything behind it. We all know the novel's theme is tragedy where all of the people were broken and wrong in some ways, but at the same time, right in others. But Kariya was especially uniquely awesome for the narrative that even starting from just the fact that there was someone willing to save Sakura before Shirou succeeded in one of his routes being enough to make one emotional when you get to that point in the novel early on. Subsequent scenes still hitting different because of the same initial implications that he will definitely die and will fail to save Sakura in the end, but what made the situation with him so surprising and more deliciously soul-crushing was how, despite all of the good and also selfish intentions, he lost himself along the way and hurt the person he found hope in. I really wish more people read Zero right after finishing FSN VN instead of the bullshit anime Zero first experience thing that makes more people wanna roast and then cling to the opinion later on even when reading the novel. We'd have more people interpreting his character correctly this way💀
Bro what did Kariya do to you? 😆. You slaughtered that man at the end. But nah I'm all for it. My boy truly did play himself on that "I'm the nice guy" narrative he had going in his head.
12:54: " and you could feel how u want to feel, but at the end of the day, he was the one.......... rearranging her guts!!!!" Best quote to end off 2022.
@@emiyavalentine5969 he is a Kariya fanboy. He basically insulted Nasu, Takeuchi, and Gen Urobuchi in his comment by saying "Let them laugh. Because that won't rid the fact that he saved a little girl". Basically ignoring the fact that they roasted Gen's creation by basically stating that both of them could've done better and even make it rewarding for Kariya in Nasu's case(if he was the main dark hero of the story) in exchange that he lost everything. Basically he us insulting them by thinking he is better than the literal creators of Fate Zero and Fate Stay Night respectively.
If waver a literal no name Mage could become a member of the clock tower, he could've of Thrown around the Matou name to get some means of Mage training hell I'm pretty sure Matous enemies would welcomed him with opens arms if it meant he could be used to take out Zouken. Man's did nothing and demanding the world to give him everything.
@@RagnarokMasta yeah, either get adopted by a Clocktower mage or by the Church. Both of which Kariya is definitely not aware of since those two factions are just a lot more closed off for any kind of Mage.
Waver could only do that because Reines recognized his cunning and talent teaching others. But the only reason Waver is a Lord is because Reines, the actual successor of El-Melloi, needed someone to protect her from her political enemies in the Association until she grew old enough to claim the title (and marry Waver if her constant teasing is anything to go by).
@@jonboulet1614 Kirei doesn't lie, but he also isn't honest. But if there is one thing, he rebuked Shirou and Shinji and that was more honest despite knowing that Shinji basically fucked himself, while he can just make Shirou mentally tired.
There are a few issues in this writeup here. Most given in the novel and supplementary material, but a lot was in the show proper. First, Kariya left not because he was a busta, but because the Matou heir position is a lie, as you see with Sakura, who Zouken tried to make a living lab rat with far better potential than Kariya, he NEVER gives anyone his actual crest to pass on. Zouken did indeed setup Aoi with Kariya since childhood for her trait, but that would have ended badly for Aoi, as you see with Shinji's mother, things don't turn out well for the mothers of these kids. In Zero Material, the very reason why Kariya left Fuyuki was because he saw Zouken's ultimate plan, which definitely isn't innocent matchmaker. For that matter, do you see Kariya and Byakuya's mother? They are only in their 30s during the war, their birth mother would have still been alive. I'd say Kariya has more than enough reason for jetting, as he wouldn't even be trained properly anyway, he would just be a lab experiment. Now we agree that a lot of his motivation is to ultimately be with Aoi, but I don't think he doesn't care about the two sisters, even if he selfishly deludes himself as the father figure. So its very grey, as he held a flame for another man's wife despite the fact he had agreed to his choice because Zouken was so heinous. But the thing they highlight most in Zero Material is that none of the adult figures in these children's lives is right in the head, and all fell short of doing what was best for them as people. They were all distorted, and in those flaws and mental shortcomings, each failed these kids in their own way. When Kariya saved Rin, and saw how Kariya changed, she never talked with her husband about what might be going on with Sakura, Tokiomi also never questioned Kariya's anger about being a magus or about Sakura to Zouken, even when he himself considered Zouken to be selfishly evil if you read Zero's epilogue. Hell, Nasu says Shirou shouldn't learn how to treat women from Kiritsugu. Even if you like something about the character, this work was highlighting how magi society, rather than being clear cut right and wrong, is "distorted". And that causes massive problems for the people in it.
Thank you. I bet there's not a single content creator in this western Nasuverse community on UA-cam who've followed the release timeline properly without excluding the databooks and not starting Fate/Zero with a mid anime adaptation. It definitely had to be that for people to end up formulating some negative biases strong enough that they end up re-enforcing them after reading the novel or maybe even the databooks. Kariya is an amazing part of the narrative and his character gets way too underappreciated.
@@_Aeterno I was surprised that people were holding this much negativity against him. Like sure, going after married woman is cringy, but bashing him for leaving the most hated mage family where every member turns into messed up creep is weird af. And saying that he's pathetic simply because he returned to this family to save Sakura is also weird, it's not like he could do much in this situation
@@alreadyd1d Even bashing him for going after a married woman is weird when the context gets into play. Kariya knew Tokiomi was a terrible father for sacrificing his own daughter Sakura and he had all the justification in his mind to think Aoi shouldn't be with this guy. Now, of course, there's more nuance like Kariya being setup with Aoi by Zouken since a while back before Kariya left Matou family, the fact that Tokiomi wasn't entirely incorrect about having Sakura not being part of Tohsaka family due to Mage Association in his mind most likely going after Sakura eventually and seal designating her (essentially killing her), the fact that Kariya's good past experiences with Aoi made Kariya not even consider how Aoi herself is just as much to blame for sacrificing Sakura as Tokiomi, and just how Kariya turned a blind eye to the fact that in the war he will be killing Sakura's father at the cost of saving Sakura herself. It's much more complicated to even think of narrowing stuff down to "going after a married woman is cringe" when there's clearly so much more to it than that.
@@_Aeterno not really THAT much going on, simply because Aoi is no saint with abusive husband, she made her choice, showed how much she "cares" for Sakura, and overall it's just his feelings playing with him. Going after someone like her is simply not it
@@alreadyd1d What's going on is more than enough to not overly simplify the situation in weird ways. Of course it's his feelings playing with him, and the context for it makes sense. Obviously if he didn't get emotional for his childhood friend's daughter being sacrificed by his own shitty family he would've lived and the story wouldn't happen. And there's no really a way for Kariya to not get emotional like this when presented with such bullshit. He didn't know if Aoi got manipulated/misinformed by Tokiomi and couldn't act like an overly rational robot, that's just unrealistic. He wasn't a mage and couldn't have such an inhuman reaction to the whole situation. Finding out Sakura's circumstances, the biases from Kariya's past being there already, the newfound guilt of being the one at fault for leaving (was his choice of getting away wrong? was that life a mistake?), allowing by that for Tokiomi to get into Aoi's life, and ultimately making Sakura go through the bullshit all came together. There's no way he would not have been considered a shitty person if he just decided to ignore it all because of the possibility of Aoi being partially at fault. HE himself was partially at fault, he wouldn't judge her as much as he would himself to just leave. That thought coming to his mind doesn't mean Kariya would've decided he'd be fine with not trying to make things right by Sakura and not feel like a scumbag for the rest of his life afterwards. Thinking about being in Tokiomi's place during the war was only natural in his situation, the man had to motivate himself with delusions to not break apart. If Kariya could talk with Aoi properly it would've been super interesting but Gil/Kirei gang robbed us from that 💀
Kariya did make a few mistakes. 1) Not using the power he got and his position more tactically. Or thinking outside the box. 2) Being too focused on using Lancelot to get his revenge on Tokiomi, when he could have probably used him to kill Zolken and save Sakura. 3) Not taking the feelings of the woman he loved into account. 4) Expecting his ideals to win the day. 5) Expecting Zolken to play fair or even making a deal with that devil to begin with.
Kariya could barely control Berserker and keep himself alive. He was smart hiding himself while letting his servant do the work but he isnt a mage or really even a fighter so in many ways he's in a worse spot than Waver. He was trying to do the right things for the wrong reasons and there was 0 chance he was going to win the grail, he just had no choice but to play by Zouken's rules.
@@anusaukko6792 Lancelot can make any weapon his noble phantasm. So he’d be able to kill him with a flamethrower no problem…. Or a giant fly swatter. As for Sakura’s worms. You can use the same method used in Grand Order. Lure them out with a high enough mama concentration item. Like the crest seals in a severs hand.
@@aviniciussouza100 yeah, Zouken can only due if you kill his core and purify his soul, thus destroying his anchor to the world. That is how deeply anchored to life Zouken is. Not even Kirei could do it, though he managed to reduce him to a mere single worm.
Fool's gold maybe. Tsiah was profoundly dishonest in everything he said. Kariya never moved against Tokiomi until Sakura was sold to Zouken. He entered the war KNOWING he would die and KNOWING he would never get to spend time with Aoi and the girls again. He deemed that sacrifice worth it because he cared that deeply for Sakura.
Funnier than anything in this video. But remember Kariya only joined the war because of what happened to Sakura. Otherwise hebwas content to be Aois friend
To add fuel to the fire, here is the talk from Gen Urobuchi, Kinoko Nasu, and Takeshi Takeuchi about Kariya during the 10th Anniversary of Fate series where they basically roasted him to the ground without mercy: "Nasu: They're all pretty old, so they fight with firm belief systems. However, among them, Matou Kariya, who's fighting for Sakura's freedom, is an anomaly. He, and only he, fights for a very shonen manga-esque ideal, "to save a girl." In that respect, I think it's easier for the reader to identify with Kariya compared to the valiant types like Kiritsugu. And I heard that Uncle Kariya's actual popularity among fans is off the charts. He is in love with Aoi, who's actually a wedded woman with a child, but he still isn't able to grow up, and dreams about being united with her. He's a bit of a problem. Takeuchi: I see. So Kariya is sort of like the chunibyo hero of the story. Uro: It's a disease that summons death. Because he has the "chunibyo" disease, he let the worms into his body, until finally he only has one month left to life. Nasu: Maybe all chunibyo are fated to end up this way... I have chronic chunibyo myself, so maybe I'll end up just like Kariya... (Laughs) Takeuchi: Kariya really seems like the main character in the anime version of Fate/Zero. His drive to save Sakura and how he envelops the depression connected to Tokiomi really makes him look like a dark hero. Maybe that's why he's so popular. Nasu: Usually if I drew a dark hero like Kariya, he'd lose almost everything only to have all his hard work pay off in the end. But of course, Urobuchi-san goes and has characters like Kariya die without any sort of retribution. Uro: Well, I did let him see a "good dream" at the end. (Laughs) In the beginning, I actually wanted to do more with him. But because of the way his body ended up, making him fight more would kill him..."
@@jonboulet1614 the thing is, he didn't do it for her sake either. Nasu basically pointed it out in how Gen wanted to show it, his basic inferiority to everything. Something akin to what Nasu would double down for Shirou back in Heaven's Feel Route, and even further back with Kara no Kyoukai making a decent roster of characters suffer and get redemption in the end. Even then what Kariya did to try and save Sakura backfired, and made it even firm for Sakura not to go against Zouken's orders, it was Shirou who truly saved Sakura without being a huge manchild that cannot let go of Aoi, feels guilt once he knows that Zouken will just find another replacement anyways as if he lives in a fairytale wonderland of his own fantasy, goes all out against Tokiomi and blames him for everything going wrong, crawls back to Zouken without anything in his name, nearly killing Aoi and blaming her for anything and saying he is the one saving her, has a grand delusion that Sakura and Rin calls him Daddy, and even Nasu basically allowing every form of roast the Zero characters had for him in a non canon spinoff. Basically they're correct while you're akin to a child who hasn't seen the horrors of the Mai Lai massacre and thinks that the American soldiers did nothing wrong since it was the one in command giving such orders. Yes say that to their faces that they are laughing while Kariya basically made it worse for Sakura, he gave her a glimpse of a future she can still regain, but even then he already fucked up without even realizing that he basically died and made her double down on her own suffering and trying her best to endure the stuff Zouken was doing to her, making it clear that she cannot and should not fight back if not for Angra Mainyu basically doing the boost and personality change she wanted to break free, it took a teenage boy of her age group, a teenager who is considered the worst magus next to Waver, so bad that he cannot even do his magic properly since he had bad training from Kiritsugu, a teenager whose life is way more of a husk than Kariya, a boy so selfish and selfless that he will not back down just to save someone, whether be it Saber, Rin, Illya, Sakura, Rider, and even Archer, it took only that one teenager, who has nothing to win nor to lose was the one that actually save her in the very end, directly or indirectly in every Fate Route. Kariya barely won anything, he lost more than anyone else, he basically helped a monster like Kirei take out Tokiomi, he nearly murdered Aoi, made Rin more than traumatized for what happened with her mother, made Sakura fall into even more despair, ordered Berserker kidnap Irisviel and while Maiya was brutally maimed, and simply made Zouken use him as a pawn to silence Sakura unless Shirou has decided to save her out of selfishness and cast away his pride for the woman he loves. What Kariya did was only made everything that could go wrong, goes horribly wrong. Now I dare you spit out your comment towards Nasu and Gen Urobuchi in his interview and they won't give a single damn about it since they basically agreed that Gen made Kariya to be the worst master who only makes things worse.
@@jonboulet1614 and did that girl wanted it? Yes, but did she get it? No. Don't defend someone because they did good, when in fact their actions made it worse. He's no Waver, he is not Fujimaru, and he is definitely not Shirou. Waver climbed his way to be noticed by the Clocktower despite being considered garbage in every way possible as a magus, and even gained the attention of Reines, while je is also a student of Archibald el Melloi, and has always worked the most and was rewarded the spot he is right now in the Clocktower as a substitute lord, a worker for the El Melloi family, and a potential partner for Reines. Kariya is also no Fujimaru, who at first joined Chaldea for a job, but has been striving their best(depending on character selection, I'll just use plural pronouns for them) just to survive, once it was to "save humanity" but that is the bullshit old Chaldea made for their mage teams(something Daybit was able to find out) as a reason for their work, but look at their sheer desire to survive, they even tried to save people from already destroyed Lostbelts, trying to salvage those who wanted to, they even inherited Kirschtaria's will to strive for a better future for humanity, inherited Qin Shi Huang's desire to protect humanity, and even earned the love and affection of Musashi, Castoria, Circe, Serenity, Jalter, Ereshkigal, Quetzcoatl, Traum version of Kiyohime, and even ORT's deified core, known in the form of Kukulkan, they also sacrificed themselves for the people they love the most, and Fujimaru can do nothing but remember them and move on and carry on their wills and legacy, not to save humanity, but to survive. And remember to make thise characters fall for them is not an easy fear, maybe except Serenity and Kiyohime, but that is because of certain reasons I am not going to say. Kariya's stubbornness is basically the flaw Shirou has the most in Heaven's Feel route, but unlike Kariya, Shirou was basically a shit mage and is still the man who has basically became a husk of himself, and is only going forward because of Kiritsugu saving him, despite that, he always strives to be better, he never crawled back to anyone for help from the very start when he decided to help Saber, Rin, or Sakura and only did so because he was not just stubborn, he was always in a very difficult spot and was severely damaged by his opposition, which was mostly Gilgamesh, although Zouken can be considered but that was when all hope was lost and had to ask help from a certain priest that smiled as he saw him suffer, yet those circumstances happen because he faced adversity and came back because he was already prepared before all events happened and even when being dragged into the grail war, he still held his own against Lancer, all alone before he was about to be overwhelmed and summoned Saber by sheer coincidence. Yet he has every merit to do so. Yet Kariya is the opposite of these three people I mentioned. Yes he has the roots of coming from the Matou family, but he left and did nothing but live a poor life of a failed writer rather than honing his own magic while living in exile, which technically wasn't something he can do, he came crawling back and had nothing of note to back up when he came crawling. Hell Shirou only came to Kirei, Illya, or Rin because they themselves offered that help as all hope was lost and by that time he was already an established master of the war and was already standing up on his own in every single route. Yet Kariya was doing this because he felt guilty, when what happened to Sakura was expected for Zouken to do. Zouken wasn't there to offer him actual help either, he just came back and Zouken offered a fake proposal that can be considered him showing his worth and still manage to fuck it up. Kariya tried to save Sakura and only to make the rift between Sakura and Rin even more obvious, but also made everything worse than when he didn't need to. Yet when Shirou tried to save Sakura, he knows that saving her is not because he loved Rin the same way Kariya loved Aoi, but it is because he loves Sakura and was always showing that he has every merit to do so and succeed or be treated with respect or a form of rivalry by everyone that is not Gilgamesh or Zouken, even Archer, who hates him and wants him to die the most, had began to respect Shirou and his dedication and unwavering faith as he removed the title of hero because he wanted to and become an actual hero because he abandoned it to save either Rin, or Sakura. Kariya wanted to become Rin and Sakura's Daddy and hero of his fantasy with Aoi if he ever succeeded in saving her.
11:36 Honestly this is probably the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone bringing up Byokuya, Kayira, and Shinji’s mother. And thinking about it there’s probably a good reason why we never see or hear about her. I mean think about it. You know all the messed up things Zolken has done to Sakura. And how he’s treated his own children as little more than tools at the best of times. It wouldn’t surprise me one iota if she was chained and locked up somewhere in a dark seller being ether a broodmare, or seedbed for Zolken’s bugs of some other fait worse than death. 12:04 That is a interesting point. Part of me wonders if Zolken agreeing to help Kariya is a twisted way of him living through him. Seeing Kariya and his obsession with the woman that he loved like Zolken’s obsession with Justies.
Oh you didn't know why we dont hear about them? after a breeding partner has been used in the zolken family succesfully, He tortures them then feeds them to the pit, yeah under that worm pit is the skeletons of dozen of men and women that breed with the matous, there is also the heirs that failed to live up to his expectations rotting as well down there.
@@GodShadowdeath I bet that's exactly why the Matou Family is as f****d as it is, How can the Matou's magic cirtuits and magecraft improve if Zouken just keeps killing them?
@@GodShadowdeath And people acting like Kayira abandoning the family responsibility is a bad thing. Knowing that there’s a good chance you’d just be bug food in the end. Kayira ducking out of the Zolken household is probably the smartest thing he’s ever done. The problem is he came back.
They're nothing alike. Zouken loved Justeaze but his insanity arose from resentment at his failure to acquire the blessing of the grail and ensure his own immortality not out of her loss. And Justeaze created the Grail to reach the root. Aoi just wanted to be a proper Yamato Nadesico.
@@jonboulet1614 they are. Stop deluding yourself. When it comes to who obsessed with their woman, both came the same. They only drowned themselves into even worse paths in life. Zouken lost his goal for Justeaze, while Kariya turned Aoi into a fucking vegetable, and the only caveat is that it traumatized Rin, and made Sakura's suffering even worse. While Zouken has basically fallen into a shadow of his original self.
Well he is brought up in Fate Grand Order in a event related to Zero. In that one El-Melloi II goes back and replays the events of Fate Zero though a singularity. Changing allot of the outcomes. That one has my favorite scenario. We’re Islander and Karia team up and form a deal. Islander Raids the Zolken household and his army kills Zolken and burns his bugs. Karia agrees to give up Berzerker and sacrifices his hand with the crest seals to Islander to free himself and Sakura from the worms. Afterwards both Karia and Sakura are sent to a hospital to recover. But that’s the last of their involvement in the story.
I don't understand all the hate for Kariya. You all defend the toshaka family which didn't give a damn about Sakura, and the only reason they cared about rin is because she was the chosen one to carry the toshaka magic and stuff. They literally dont care about their own children. Kariya massive hate for Tokiomi wasnt because he was jealous, it was because Tokiomi said that he didn't give a damn about sakura and there can only be 1 mage in the family so sakura can be thrown away. That triggered Kariya and made him even more mad at Tokiomi.Not to mention this is a damn war and they are enemies anyway. Some people say he did that to get Aoi, but how is he going to get aoi if he literally been told that he is going to die anyway? He knew that no matter what he does there is no going back, he just want to save Sakura, thats all. Not to mention he even saved rin from death. He is a better father figure than tokiomi ever will be and he is doing all this for another's person daughter. About how he almost killed Aoi, i agree this wasn't a good action, but Aoi blamed him for everything and he was also burned alive by her husband and was eaten by bugs constantly for a year, not to mention the trauma those bugs probably did to his brain. At the last moment he managed to hold himself and not kill her. So both tokiomi and Aoi are heartless assholes that blame kariya for trying to save a little kid thats been raped by bugs for years, and he was the only one who cared and even gave his life for her
@@Jonah-langah, another fella late to the party like myself. Yeah I like Kariya! Closest thing to reality I’ve seen in a character on the show. Bro is flawed in a way that only a human can be. For me, the yearning, the bad decisions, the panic and all this tangled twisted mess of avenues all meeting in his head-very, EXTREMELY relatable imo. Anime character that could be a real person with those actions, I actually really really enjoy him.
JESUS CHRIST! forget a roast, forget a burn, forget an incineration, this was a GOD DAMNED DISINTEGRATION! good lord! I dunno HOW you woke up this morning and decided "yknow what? imma just bury this man alive in front of everyone and dare anyone to say anything about it." and then proceed to make a 13 min video BREAKING EVERY SINGLE FACET OF HIS BEING. My eyes were wide during this whole video man!
Kariya is like a drunk driver. The drunk driver is driving drunk by his own will, he drinks then takes the car. If he rolls over a kid, he cant use alcohol as excuse to leverage the crime, instead he is the one commiting two crimes, both drinking and driving and then rolling over the kid with the car
@@onemoregodrejected9369 He took poison he knew would kill him because it was the only way he could find to save Sakura and it was the onyl way Zouken would take him on as surrogate master in the grail war.
I love kariya, and I can say that him leaving the matou household ain’t his fault, things in that family were so screwed that any person would be traumatised, which could of left him to spiral out of control. But the fact that he knew how crazy zouken was and the fact that he relied on zouken to help a girl that ain’t even his was definitely his fault
I’m so glad you are doing more videos please keep making good videos like always kariya did have a bad story I felt bad when the worms took him over I don’t feel bad now
You really should though Tsiah was incredibly bad faith here. Kariya never had any designs against Tokiomi until he sold Sakura to Zouken at which point he accepted the worms KNOWING THEY WOULD KILL HIM. For the CHANCE that Sakura would be let go. That was his motivation and Tsiah straight up lies about it in the first half and then claims Sakura being assaulted doesn't matter in the second half.
Actually he lied. Kariya had no designs on attacking Tokiomi nor stealing Aoi before Sakura was sold off to the Matou. And even after that he knew he had no future with them because the worms were going to kill him and he knew this before they were implanted. Kariya knowingly sacrificed his life for Sakura.
I do find it funny that had he done nothing he wouldve had a nearly guatanteed chance at aoi since tokiomi wouldve died in the war. All he wouldve had to do was not look like a useless bum post war and he wouldve gotten at least 2/3rds of his dream.
Was Kariya turning himself into a living corpse filled with bugs really the best choice he could've made? Zouken is a mashed-up clump of bugs, just blast him with some insect killer from Home Depot.
That wouldn't work for a myriad of reasons 1) Zouken can most certainly protect himself against basic human weapon. Yes kiritsugu proves that a mage shot is still a dead mage, but the thing to keep in mind is that kiritsugu doesn't fight frontally if he can help it, will hit you off guard if possible, and that zouken is a very powerful mage: i doubt someone like kiritsugu killed that many, and we are asking KARIYA to do it 2)As long as he has a backup bugs zouken will revive. His best bet is somehow managing to get enough explosive to destroy the entire mansion, and managing to put them there, and the mansion would have bounded field to prevent that from happening 3) Zouken most likely scares the shit out of kariya, for good reasons, much like for most mage kids their father is in their minds an untouchable existence,. And zouken is a prime example why. To think Kariya could kill zouken is really fantasy. Best way would be to pay a mercenary to do it, and the kind of mercenaries that would be skilled enough to actually succeed are not people kariya would ever be able to afford No really the best thing he could have done is swallow his pride and explaining to tokiomi why zouken is lying and not actually making Sakura his heir. Tokiomi is probably weaker than zouken but he at least has more money, connection and power to succeed than kariya would
@@namoma4922 And there are other families of mage out there who is less degenerate enough to be another Zouken who would accept Sakura. Conflict solved
@@jonboulet1614 Because he’s an idiot and fully deserve what happened to him. He trusted a text book definition of a psychopath, he didn’t crack a textbook before the war, and he didn’t do reasearch on Zouken not even a light visit. Thanks to that. Said psychopath killed him, mismanaged his funds, and now his daughter is in danger of his other daughter. Fuck him.
Bro had the 3rd strongest servant in the war and threw it all away for a woman who wasn't even his If he had used Lancelot tactfully he would have meant some serious business
@@jonboulet1614 sure, it wasn't the tactical type, but considering that Kariya actually can do it but is a massive incompetent moron that it doesn't matter. Hell your own argument falls apart once you realized that he used his magic to conceal Berserker to look like Rider and kidnap Irisviel. If that wasn't tactical than I dunno what the fuck is not tactical about it.
@@ousamadearudesuwaHoly…I know it’s a full year late, I just cannot believe I’ve seen you underneath probably EVERY comment this guy wrote. 🤯 Holy fuck I never knew hatred for a character could be this strong; I mean, it’s SO strong that Goku wants to fight it! Again, year later, I know, but wow. It’s hate for jonboulet or hate for Kariya, maybe both. Either way….I mean I looked at another comment, jonboulet commented, and sure enough you were RIGHT on his ass. Damn bruh!! I had to edit this shit cause I saw it AGAIN that’s like 6x
@@marcomonteiro449 I really don’t mind Jon because it’s a fictional character from an eroge series that he is talking about and focused on-it’s not that bothersome because it’s ultimately an opinion and it’s about an anime character. Fine with me. Other guy literally just focused on FOLLOWING this guy around everywhere which is specifically what I cannot get behind. Seems petty and stupid for the sake of being petty and stupid. *EDIT: If it was one or two comments fine, but it is like 5-6 comments. I just don’t get it.
also a thing about Aoi is that and she even states this herself she understood what she was getting into when marrying Tokiomi and accepted that to Kariya's face, like when she got pregnant with sakura what were they gonna do? abort the child because they already had a magus child? like the magus life is dangerous as fuck theres always a chance teaching them goes awry and that child dies in the process at a young age, i think Sakura at best was a back up in case Rin failed and upon realising Rins latent talent eventually had sakura as a bargaining tool which they assumed was in Sakura's best interest as a mage (at least Aoi assumed so, Tokiomi i think he said that just to manipulate Kariya a bit), like Tokiomi is a piece of shit but he is a "talented" magus (or so they tell us) and again probably planned incase Rin died or didnt have the prowess, although i still kinda think he just preferred Rin more. Tokiomi: dont put words in my mouth! *vomits crest worm* Tokiomi: dont put worms in your mouth!
Something I'd like to note is that Tokiomi isn't lying at all about having Sakura's best interest as a mage, and also for her as his daughter. In the light novels he has an inner monologue about his reasoning for handing Sakura to the Matou's. He knew Sakura had a non-standard Element, one that wasn't (apparently, we all know how wrong he turned out to be) useful for defending herself, and would likely have a sealing designation placed on her, as she wouldn't be the heir and therefore wouldn't receive the same level of protection Rin would get. He didn't want her to have to be forced to live like that, being used and abused by the Mage's Association. So he gave her to Zouken not seeing any other choice than for her to be a mage heir where she would be protected in his mind. If it was up to him, both he would've kept both of them, but that wasn't on option in his mind. The problem with this is that he believed that it was fine to do this as the Matou were "trusted allies" for centuries. Mages are a secretive bunch. No one outside of the Matou knows what goes on with them and how they develop their magecraft. No one outside the family, aside from Kariya who is an exiled family member who came back, knew about how disgusting their craft is. We also should remember that Tokiomi has shown that he cares for innocents, and was the only one aside from Waver really disturbed by Caster's actions. For all that I disagree with Tokiomi's odd combination of magus morality, and conventional morality fueled decision, he didn't know, and from all the material we have on Tokiomi, if he knew what the Matou did, he wouldn't have gave Sakura to them. His only mistake in my opinion, is one we see him make till the end of his life. Being a bad judge of character. He trusted Gilgamesh and Kirei which lead to his death. He trusted Zouken due to his own misguided belief in the institutions of mages and that Zouken was honorable due to him being a ally to the Tohsaka's for centuries.
@@KiraDaBeastNY absolutely fair response tbf the only material I've seen for Tokiomi was what we saw animated from the show and Heavens feel movies which for heavens feel obviously was like 1 or 2 scenes to show Sakura's fear of abandonment, so thanks my guy you taught me more lore today.
Except he lies about the context to paint Kariya in the worst light possible. Remember Kariya had no designs on Tokiomi or the grail until Tokiomi sold Sakura to Zouken.
You know this series way better than me and I'm mostly an anime only with some wiki on the side, but how it read to me was he didn't want to be with Aoi because he was a Matou and the shit he knew she would have to go through to be part of the household. Then when he found out the husband gave Sakura to his family he lost his shit because it was like "well, what was the point then?"
Kariya is the definition of SIMP. he shouldve leveled up to EMIYA and became MGTOW and focus on self improvement. He made his bed and he had to lay in it. Sad. As soon as he saw Rins mother didnt want him he shouldve fell back and forgot about her. SIMPing is the path to the dark side.
@@risekujikawa7763 *Disclaimer:* I'm not a member, don't know how to join, nor am I interested in doing so at the moment. - - *MGTOW; AKA, "Men Go Their Own Way."* - I believe the idea behind it is that it's a group men can join to receive/provide moral support, advice, feedback; stuff like that for each other. It's essentially just a community of dudes, _for_ dudes. I don't know if it has a specific purpose aside from that. I've heard/seen a decent number of dudes say that joining it helped them out of toxic relationships, but I don't expect it to be super special when compared to other communities one can join. I'm sure everyone in there has a reason for joining though.
@@okita_souji_alter No, because he never had to own up to it. He says he wishes that Sakura and Rin had more of a say in their lives, but never did anything to really help Sakura. He knew he couldn't train her, but he conveniently forgot that he had his relatives on the back burner who he considered as candidates for adoption. He says there were no teachers, but by what we know now, magi with Imaginary Numbers who were better suited as teachers than Zouken were available at the time. What his idea was in giving her to Zouken would be to give an asset to an old "ally" for political reasons, even if Zouken's powers and blood weren't compatible with Sakura's body and the only reason she gained anything was because she had that much inborn talent. Tokiomi himself says that the Einzbern and Makiri are evil and greedy in Zero's prolonged, only having earthly lusts and nothing else. So this deal was solidly more to aid his quest for the Root, because somehow he thought that a 4 year old would unseat an evil Grand level archmagus if things went south. She did kinda eventually, but lost much more than she got back if we're all honest. Further, when Nasu was questioned about what he would think of the outcome of HF between the sisters, he says he would consider it just like he mentioned in Zero, whatever effects to the sisters, it would "be a win for their family if they came to obtain great magic". That isn't owning up to your mistakes, that tripling down on them posthumously.
I really don't know what to make of this. But, Kariya, is just one of the most unfortunate dudes in fate. I can see his faults, but most of this feels like just be a man talk and a roast session, so I have no idea if he really is as bad as he made him out to be. The biggest doubt I have is the jokes they made at his expense.
Bro really pulled out the n word just to diss Kariya 💀 I still like Kariya, but overall you did make many good points and some of your roasts on Kariya were mad funny, so overall good video
Except he really didn't. None of this was his fault. He didn't chose to be born into the Matou family. He didn't choose Aoi as a breeding prospect for the Matou. He didn't choose to give up Sakura to Zouken. He did choose the worms but only because he had no other options to save Sakura who Tokiomi gave away and Aoi failed to protect. Don't go laying this on Kariya.
Yeah even though the 10th anniversary stuff where Gen, Takeuchi and Nasu basically said how much they went on how pathetic Kariya is in their own way. With Nasu saying "He wants to save Sakura, He is in love with Aoi, who is a wedded woman, and he never grew up, and he is a problem" and if he wanted to, he could've asked Gen to make him go for his own divine retribution for his actions but he also liked the Urobuchi way of not giving Kariya anything worthy for his own death. Meanwhile Takeuchi calls him a Chunibyo hero of the story. A.k.a. an adult with an 8th grader syndrome. Which Gen Urobuchi then said it is a disease that only brings death upon him. Meanwhile Urobuchi gave him a "good dream" on his deathbed because even when he wanted him to continue with Kariya, his own condition made it impossible for Urobuchi to make it even worse for Kariya. Which....is damn son, even your creators roasted you more than us enjoying his suffering.
Well Kariya knows what Zouken is capable of and well we do know what happens to Sakura. It's pretty grim. So yeah he's creepy and weird trying to start a family with Aoi, but it can also be true that he legitimately wanted to save Sakura.
Nah, Kariya came from a really f@$%ed up household and he just retreated to what he knew was familiar once he failed at life. He was delusional to think that he could come back and become some kind of hero or even get happiness. Also, Sakura was virtually brainwashed. Rin is the only one who got out ok.
After thought and consideration (reading the comments) I can say this dude really not the best If he could have stayed on the path to save Sakura that would have been fine But if he had the full intention of getting with lady that's just crazy, cuz he did have intention to murder Rin & Sakura's father, like, how could he think that was cool Cuz I stan Sakura, so its like okay dude wanted to save her from Zouken and the worms, I feel that But for him to go back to lady and Rin with a now damaged Sakura He gotta relax. . .thats just a no go dude Other people point out the Lancelot Zerk parallels and its like, ah shit, I see now
You know, it's kinda fitting that he paired with Lancelot when he summoned a Berzerker; since they both completely destroyed their lives and everything they cared about over a married woman. Maybe my humor is just fucked like that, but looking at it like that in hindsight was just fucking hilarious and couldn't have been a coincidence on the writer's part.
Alright don't know if anyone will read this as late as I am but I think I was misinformed at some point. From what I understand/remember Kariya met and fell in love with Aoi as a kid and even had a chance at the whole marriage thing before Tokiomi was even in the picture. The Problem was that he learned (or knew) that Zouken wanted/approved of his pursuit of Aoi because her family traits (or whatever) meant it was highly likely that her kids would have high potential due to magic circuits (circuits that for whatever reason where becoming less and less common in the Matou family). Kariya knowing that Zouken wanted him to hook up with Aoi and knowing/learning about his family's mage craft (ie crest worms) decided even though he loved Aoi and really wanted to hook up with her (ie marry) that unless he can somehow get his "father/grandfather" Zouken out of the picture that actually doing so would bring Aoi (and himself) nothing but misery since she/they would have to watch or stand by as Zouken does what he does to any children she births. Kariya having never taken up mage craft seriously and with what he knew of Zouken resigned himself to the fact that he would never be able to kill him and therefore did both himself and Aoi a favor and left though he did keep in enough contact to become viewed as an uncle figure by her kids. Years later Kariya hears (probably from Aoi or during a visit) that Tokiomi gave his daughter Sakura to Zouken and that Aoi is broken up about it. Kariya decides he has to try and do something, because he still carries a torch for Aoi, because he kind of likes her kids as surrogate nieces/daughters (ie the daughters he could have had if Zouken wasn't in the picture), and because he doesn't want any kid to go through the whole Crest Worm experience (especially if that is Aoi's kid and especially since the reason he never made a move was to avoid this scenario). Unfortunately, Zouken wasn't in a negotiating mood and Kariya wasn't any better at mage craft now then he was when he was younger (ie he didn't want anything to do with mage craft) so he couldn't force the issue. However, Zouken decided to give Kariya the chance to free Sakura by having him win the upcoming Graill War for him. Kariya reluctantly and desperately agrees and because he knows he has no chance otherwise Zouken convinces him to get a really quick crash course in Crest Worms after which we get the Kariya we see in Fate Zero. A Kariya that is going mad (ie losing his faculties) and who struggles to keep his goal of freeing Sakura in mind.
Kariya is kind of guy who love a girl but Saw what kind enviroment he came and let the girl go and leave. While not married to the girl at the very least her daughters love him as a uncle and an IIRC Tokiomi himself never have problem with kariya (probably self consious that has liltle time to spent with his family and let Kariya being a sort of figure for them). Kariya was content all things consider, until Sakura went to Matou and undergone that training. I am sure Kariya does care for Sakura and Rin and his action is genuinely comes from his desire to save Sakura but deep down even though he was content he was dissatisfied and regret even letting go Aoi. As a results with Crest Worm it's Twisted Kariya into a cuck he was in Zero. Honestly if he actually sit down with Tokiomi and explain everything i am sure Tokiomi Will understand ( or at the very best investigate on his own ). He might even swallow his pride and sent sakura to Edelfelt family if he had to because he genuinely loves his family. Alas it's happen as it is.
Nasu mentioned once that Kariya's magic circuits were quite strong for commanding a servant, which means that he never needed the worms at all. After all, Ryuunosuke, with ZERO training, summoned Gilles de Rais even while botching the entire chant. And we do know what happened to Shinji's mom; Zouken took over her body after Shinji was born. The body that he's occupying in Fate Zero was once Shinji's mother.
@@downix True but that has alot to do with Caster extracting the mana he needs from their victims to an extent that is much more extreme than FSN!Rider and FSN!Caster. Uryu was providing Caster with mana by providing those children. I think we can both agree sinking to such a low would be worse morally than taking on the bugs. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Kariya COULDN'T pull a Shirou but he would need Lancelot as any other class than Berserker since it would require his servant to think and plan intelligently.
@@downix That would be pretty busted. Although Kariya would have no way of knowing of a future "hero". But yeah if base Kariya got command seals without Zouken (not impossible but certainly not a garuntee) and summoned Archer (also possible but not something you could plan for) he could win HGW4 with mid to high difficulty.
At the start of the story Shirou is incredibly ripped, a great cook, a handyman who can repair things, genuinely helpful and he is wealthy. Nevermind Archer, from the jump he is offering a ton more than Kariya.
This bum really used all that energy and resources to a girl who don't even like him and already has a husband. certified SIMP Hope you begin a series like your Don't sleep on series where you roast characters 😂
I mean I kinda agree? After all, Kariya is pathetic. But (I'm guessing because this is a roast) you gave waaaaay too much credit/room to Zouken lmao, this roast almost made Zouken sound like someone who deserved respect
His roast acted like Kariya should have stayed in a family where his only role would be to breed future hosts. Tsiah is running on maximum bad faith in this video
conclusion "something is wrong with your whole bloodline, like god damn all you of you go banana for bitches and do crazy shit". like decide what you wanted to be a good guy or a villain but noke you became the embodiment of L. like zoulken could have stoped shit if he confessed to the woman he loved, kariya could have done better if he steeled his heart and shinji naah he is useless in mage craft but mans supposed to be like 1 percent of tony stark so yeah he could easily have become rich and stuff, hell he could learn the magecraft of other branches except the clock tower.
Fate zero was my first date so I didn’t think of him like this. Thought he was just trying to help Sakura. Now that I’ve watched the animes heard stuff from the LN and mangas and played fgo I know how dark type moon is. This guy was outta control like pick another girl and walk away. Best ending???? She chooses you and you’re in this cruel world with your kids??? Get out
I nearly forgot about this dude. And when I was watching fate/zero I barely cared about what he was doing. All I cared about was berserker and All the other characters.
@@jonboulet1614 I wouldn’t say that kiritsugu was the only one that’s heroic to me, even if he used underhanded and dirty methods he still was doing for the worlds sake.
@@Ultimaxum17x Kiritsugu was certainly utilitarian and his end goal could easily be considered heroic so I'll grant remote heroism. But this is also the character who saw sparing the innocent people of the Fuyuki Hyatt as a moment of weakness. To say nothing of the way he treats Maiya a woman he more or less raises.
I think that you was right in many points of Kariya: Is a simp of a person that no love, a stupid that no known in the hell that Is a Holy grail war AND a terrible máster. But Is a lie that Kariya does not love Sakura like a uncle/father. When hurt Aoi, he think that he kill her, but do not exit of the war. He keep fighting because even being a selfish, he want to save Sakura and hate himself because take away your mother. The einzbern consultation Is not serious in that term of p3d0, only Lancelot talk shit about him because he never known that he want to save a child.
Yeah Tsiah lies about Kariya's motivation for entering the war. IT was purely to save Sakura. Had Tokiomi never sold her off he never would have moved against him.
The fact that I was with you in that same opinion. Poor Kariya, I thought. But when he choked out Rin's mother, I was astounded how much I did a 180. This video put my thoughts together, and I agree, Kariya should have tried to be a man and marry the girl when he had the chance. When he left, he should have admitted defeat, but no, my boy became a truly horrible human being by using the *kids* and their suffering by propping him up as a righteous counter to Tokiomi. Yet the mother is complicit, and Tokiomi has no ill will. The man even tried to explain to Kariya why he did what he did to his kids, as if he was lecturing a truly ignroant dumbass. Yet Kariya didn't want to understand; he wanted to be The Hero and in the right.
@@jonboulet1614 The matter is that this wasn't Kariya's place to meddle. Even if he had good intentions, he had no authority, ability, or influence to stop what had been set into motion. Because he chose to turn his back on Aoi when he had full rein to be wed with her, he should have stayed out of her life. Instead he comes back, makes 'friends' with his would-be-isn't-now interest to 'look good' to Aoi in hopes of getting in with Aoi. He had no interest in saving Sakura. He wanted to get a life he threw away, but had no way of doing so other than destroying himself.
@@demod2080 Wedding Aoi would have changed nothing except it would have been their child being violated by worms. Also I find the idea that it isn't someone's business to stop the suffering of a child simply because she isn't theirs reprehensible.
@@jonboulet1614 if this was a normal problem, he could have involved the authorities. I agree it's a bad deal. But the fact he was canonically a bum bothers me that he still tried to meddle. What was he going to do to provide for these girls after Tokiomi was gone?
Yeah, i found it weird because the whole Kariya's story and background was told by his mouth, except for some basic concept. And although i had no idea he was self pity and considered himself a "good guy" All i feel about his character is "Pathetic" Damn Tsiah my man, i saw you were roasting the dude and suddenly, your cooking show disappeared and replaced by this, what happened?
![Mystic Codes Explained [Fate/Stay Night] [FGO] [Fate/Zero]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/c7RHTmSp3J0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Mystic Codes Explained [Fate/Stay Night] [FGO] [Fate/Zero]](/img/tr.png)
I remember watching Kariya go through it and I was like, "all this... For another man's wife who don't like you like that?" Get this man some water.
Better yet some milk lol
ok
....and her daughter who was being violated by worms. Anyone remember that little detail?
Big simpin'
@@tyty12345678910 corny. But true.
the homewrecker gets Lancelot as a servant... god the grail has such a twisted sense of humor.
Some home where a daughter is sold to a monster .
I love the church scene when Aoi walks in there and Kariya's like, "Uh it wasn't me. I mean, I wanted too, and planned too, but I wasn't going to do it, though I definitely was, but I didn't do it...even though I wanted to. It's not what it looks like."
To be fair, this whole battle actually is a deadly dick measuring contest. So, it was gonna be awkward whoever "won". With the fact Tokiomi tried to present himself as honorable, but has several bits rigging it for him being a member of one of the Three Great Families. Not exactly "good" people in this equation, rather shades of grey.
@@RagnarokMasta I don't think really anyone is good in this war. In fact, you can argue that most of the masters are evil. The only decent one among them is Waver. All of the characters are complicated for sure.
Yes, I really enjoyed how Kirei and Gil Enjoy the whole show from Balcony Sits. It's one of my Favourite moments from the Show.
@@UltraGman waver technically was a good guy. Like to the point where even after his "grandparents" realized they were brainwashed they still loved him like a son anyway. Waver was just a regular person with powers. And a pretty solid dude especially compared to the other mages
@@Picmanreborn I agree, he's easily the best person among the participants.
It's unfortunate that Lancelot was affected by Madness Enhancement cause I'm curious of what he would actually think of Kariya given his actions in life.
It made him a very strong guy though. Two ranks up
I actually think that berserker Lancelot was a perfect representation of his character both being corrupted love. Lancelot corrupted by his love for Arthur and gweneviere into madness and kariya corrupted by his love for the woman and her kids to the point of madness as well.
if he got any other lancelot that was still fully sane i can guarantee you that Tsiah wouldn't have had to say all this, lancelot would've already gotten the man back to his senses after the first 3 days
He would have kept his focus on what he joined the war to do. What he gave his life to do. Save Sakrua. Whatever it takes.
@Merlin Oblivion yes exactly. People fail to realize anything beyond the surface level, which is that he's pathetic, which he is. But, that perfectly ties in with the narrative! I don't particularly feel offended as some others feel, but I do respect how he synchronizes properly to the story.
All of this plus being attached to Lancelot - in Berserker form. Every master is paired to their servant for a reason and Kariya is no exception. Their stories parallel in an eerie way: Good men, with good intentions, doing the wrong thing for a forbidden woman despite claiming those good intentions. And it destroyed them both from the inside out. Dang.
I wouldn't say kariya has good intentions more like he believes he has good intentions but he actually doesnt
@@johnsai4074 No he does. Saving Sakura is a good intention and he gave his life for it knowing he'd never get to spend time with her or Aoi again.
You are quantifiably wrong.
@@jonboulet1614 mf did you not watch the video….
@@johnsai4074 Mf You did not watch the show.
@@jonboulet1614 I literally did
Stop looking at the surface level, he’s being framed as a noble hero but he definitely isn’t one. Stop looking at what you’re presented and take a look at his actions. What has he done?
He supposedly entered the grail war to win the grail and save sakura, but look at his actions. From the very start he’s not trying to win at all, he’s trying to kill tokiomi. He orders berserker to attack the literal strongest servant in the war, who had already “killed assassin” less than a day after the war started. Over the course of the war he rarely ever works towards winning, all he wants is to kill tokiomi in order to get revenge on him for “stealing” aoi from him. Yes he does care about sakura, but that clearly comes second to his love for aoi and hatred for tokiomi.
Also, he is delusional and thinks aoi is trapped in her marriage. When aoi spells out that she doesn’t love him and loves tokiomi, he chokes her so hard that she literally gets permanent brain damage. (We see this in the epilogue, it’s actually pretty sad).
He is delusional, irrational, naive and accomplished literally nothing. He may have had the intention to save sakura but his goal has always been to murder tokiomi so he can steal his wife and kids.
I said what I said
Say it again! Say it again!
Man's speaking facts
You spoke the truth.
You spoke facts no printer
Thank you
Kariya slander, I'm all in for it.
And I'd add that he should have known that, once he left the Matou, Zouken would go and find another child from a different family, cause that's how mages operate when they don't have heirs. And guess which family lived right there in Fuyuki, had a "spare" daughter and ties with the Matou. But then he tries to act as if Zouken did something totally unexpected, like, wtf dude, you KNEW it was going to happen.
I think you're giving him too much credit there. Kariya isn't capable of thinking through consequences to that level. That level being ground floor, basic cause and effect from 100% known factors.
We’ll actually that’s not why he reacted the way he did. If it was any other Magnus child he wouldn’t have given a shit. It is only because Sakura is the child of his crush Aoi (wife of tokiomi) that he goes that far. Is is more because of love that he tries to rescue Sakura, and also guilt that he condemned a small girl like Sakura to the hell that is the worm pit.
Are you saying that everyone from that family has to go through with the worms?
@@SixthAllicard yes every member has to go through with the “training” method. The only reason Shinji and his dad didn’t go through said “training” was due to their utter lack of circuits. If they did then they would have definitely been thrown in there with Sakura.
Not really. He had no idea Tokiomi would have two daughters, and certainly wouldn't sell Sakura to a dying family like the Matou when there are better alternatives that don't involve torture. Kariya may have different motives that weren't all altruistic, but he most definitely didn't leave Sakura out in the cold by negligence from the outset. He was right to leave, but I'll put up what was really going on in my post, so I don't repeat myself.
yo the last like 15 seconds had me dying 😂 realer words never been said
Those words were personal, that came straight from the heart.
Burned. lmao
The words were baloney tho
deadass lmao
Now we understand Shinji is the way he is.
Except Shinji is his nephew... I would think Zoken is more to blame for Shinji...
Wait second I thought about this now Shinji pulled a Kariya in heaven feel got his butt killed for it by Sakura
@@garrettnewell374 When did Kariya sexually assault aoi on multiple occasions? like yes he takes over as magus but pulling a kariya would be like trying to save sakura by filling in because he sympathises with her, something shinji doesnt do, shinji did a shinji its purely because he wants to be grand pappies favourite and spites sakura for being forced against her own will, kariya was being selfless for selfish reasons whilst shinji is purely selfish.
@@DarkSlasher36 Shinji in Stay Night is the definition of "You always can get worse" literally.
@@DarthFhenix55 See Fate is a series where even the worst people have a sense of redeemability to them despite them being fucked, Shinji though is written in such an explicit way that you shouldn't feel sympathy it's why every single Shinji Matou counterpart is also a scumbag because you aren't supposed to feel sorry and I'm not gonna, the moment I feel sympathy for a rapist is the moment I give someone full permission to put me down in the most painful way possible.
"you gotta fall in love with a application" BRO GOT MEE CRYING
He had a job. He left it to save Sakura.
@@jonboulet1614which makes it even worse wtf was he gonna do after killing tokiomi and stealing his wife and kids? They would of been homeless with his bumy ass
jesus, this was a damn BURIAL of this man
and a well deserved one
It had me laughing but gave me an epiphany, I also need a harsh critique to remind me not to become pathetic like that dude.
Except it was incredibly dishonest and bad faith
@@jonboulet1614 his wish are so nauseating
and Gross he deserve nothing he can't blame anyone but himself if he really care
About them he should understand there fellings and Recpect their decision instead
He decide fight in pointless battle will end him get Eating by bugs how very foolish
Ok, I've never thought about Kariya like that. I'm an anime only, and I always assumed he had some type of corporate job and was making something of himself outside of magecraft. Seeing that he's canonically just kinda bumming around changes things. And that roast at the end fucking ended me XD
same, I kinda felt bad for him because I thought he truly cared for Rin and Sakura only to fail miserably at the end. He sure had me fooled the entire time he was on screen.
Yea he was a bum and i think that was why Zouken was mad at him.
If you ginna leave this mage world atleast be successful lmao
@@risekujikawa7763 No, Zouken really did want to make him a science experiment my guy. You can rightfully call him a pathetic simp, but he was right to leg it out of that house. Only reason his little brother and his brother's son Shinji isn't messed up is because they were actually useless.
I honestly don't take that as canon. I get he is a loser but that's just too much
@@RagnarokMasta yes he has the right to leave. But he doesn't have the right to even own up for it because its the kid of your crush. He basically could've went by in full ignorance or at the very least, not focus all of that energy on Tokiomi, since he himself has literally went for the dumbest course of action of returning to the Mato family.
Another difference between Kariya and Emiya is that although Emiya's hell was also self-imposed, he came to that hell by wanting to be a hero.
He was a little boy who had the ideal of saving everyone, he ALWAYS looked out for others, he ALWAYS put others before him.
An altruistic person who did not deserve to suffer.
While Kariya was an egoist who only thought about himself.
I think an interesting idea for a story in the nasuverse could be about a normal human that doesn't come from any mage family and can't use magecraft discovering about mage crafts existence and then becoming obsessed and trying to do anything in their power to learn how to use magecraft even though it's impossible for them to do I think that can make for a really interesting story kind of like a opposite to kariya.
It has to somehow end tragically or life changing knowing these writers
I agree, it would be an interesting idea to follow. Depending on the normal human's life played out it could be interesting seeing how they view the world of magecraft from the outside looking.
Heck it's how Waver Velvet's granny got started. Join the Archive of Our Own community and post your stuff if you ever feel like it. The Fate Fandom is pretty active there. :)
There’s actually a minor character in Fate/Strange Fake that’s like this, though he’s quickly killed off. His name is Galvarosso Scladio. His wife was an amateur mage killed by the Clock Tower. He thus wanted to understand her perspective as a mage but probably never really managed to. He just didn’t have the magical talent.
But he created an American mafia family that shelters and employs mages. While he couldn’t control the group anymore, he created an impressive group in his lifetime. Honestly he can probably be considered the closest America has to a Clock Tower Lord.
Reincarnated into a servant
Man that whole Matou family is full of simps, scrubs, and busters 😅
The whole video except the last 20 seconds: Analyzing how egoistic and narcissistic is
The last 20 seconds: words coming from the depth of the heart
The analysis in question is profoundly dishonest.
I mean to be fair. If you actually knew all the crazy and messed up things that went down in the Zolken house. From mutating you’re body with bugs. Zolken’s obsession with the grail. To all the r@p£, that was happening to Sakura. Anyone with any sense would also probably want an out of the family as well. After isn’t it better to want to get out of all that crazy ness and toxicity than stay there?
You have an excellent point. Seeing how Sakura went from a sweet girl into well...(points at Dark Sakura). Yeah I'll be getting the f**k out of dodge myself.
Yeah but the problem is, he denounced the family and magecraft altogether and yet he can't make a damn thing to his name. Then came crawling back to ZOUKEN to ask for power just to simp for a woman that didn't even look at him!? What is the fucking logic here?
Yeah but he went right back to Zouken, heck, you're better off trying to get a dead apostle to set you right 😂
The thing is, he left the Mage world before Sakura was even fucking born. Plus he would've married her mother anyways if he stayed, the same women he fell in love with and still can't do a damn thing to prove himself. Even Gilgamesh and any Dead Apostle has more redeemable qualities than Kariya in proving themselves with their own name. By the time he returned, he was already crawling like a meaningless bug in front of the man he abandoned, a man so dedicated to Justeaze von Einzbern was completely disappointed in him and basically gave him a redemption arc that failed worse than his obsession fot Justeaze.
@@shinjiokami The problem with that interpretation (and also the video itself we're commenting under) is that we don't know enough about Kariya's struggles during and after he left his insane family to even come close to that kind of objective assessment. But even so, why not assume he just got unlucky in life to the extent where he could not "make a damn thing to his name" like most poor people? Just because some characters or people in the same situations managed to do something out of themselves to that extent, it doesn't mean all of them will (hell, there's most definitely a version of Kariya out there in Type-Moon multiverse that managed to overcome it with simple chance where ours couldn't, but we couldn't see it since no one cares now anyway). Most of the characters in Nasuverse that turned things around are in may senses simply outliers in the world of magecraft that is supposed to be full of cold inhumanity. That is always being made point of everywhere, which is exactly why we're getting more perspectives when someone managed to overcome stuff. Kariya's struggles seem to have been handled way more realistically than many of them and fitting more with the novel's theme of tragedy. All of this comes down to circumstance. For all we know, if Kariya decided not to ever come back to Fuyuki and forgetting about Aoi entirely, he could've very well "made a damn thing to his name" given some luck, but he didn't (perhaps even couldn't). After having such shit family to grow up in made him damaged at his core, things not going well in life, and later becoming deeply desperate for some kind of normalcy (which he tried finding in Aoi) makes complete sense. No doubt he visited Fuyuki just because of that and haven't planned crawling back to Zouken until Sakura came into picture. Kariya did not want power before seeings the Sakura situation right in front of him and realizing in the flesh that while you neglect living in hell yourself, someone else won't be spared, full of guilt. He probably came to Zouken not only out of anger at Zouken, but also at himself, and just life in general. Deluding himself that he maybe could actually make a difference by saving this one person, hanging on to newly found motivation/hope that maybe everything could still be turned around in Sakura's life, his, and Aoi's if good karma exist in this world. The descend into insanity from slowly killing himself with Berserker's energy consumption (and the bugs that were eating away at him) eventually made him more irritable and fixated more on Aoi the more desperate he got, as she was that last deep selfishly human desire that was now making him keep going to bear the pain a bit more. We know he was right about Tokiomi, Aoi was a shitty mother too, and Kariya deep down knows he's at fault for many things, even if his choice to not lead an insane life of magecraft that would've surely lead him to suffering and death was only natural. Of course, Kariya ended up doing what he did at the end, going sicko mode due to the combination of already being extremely unstable physically and mentally and running into a setup situation he couldn't predict, control, or get out of in his broken state of mind, the meeting that ruined his life more than it already was. Him still managing to come back for Sakura right before his death even after what he did was especially deep. Basically just good tragedy writing and there was clear logic in everything behind it. We all know the novel's theme is tragedy where all of the people were broken and wrong in some ways, but at the same time, right in others. But Kariya was especially uniquely awesome for the narrative that even starting from just the fact that there was someone willing to save Sakura before Shirou succeeded in one of his routes being enough to make one emotional when you get to that point in the novel early on. Subsequent scenes still hitting different because of the same initial implications that he will definitely die and will fail to save Sakura in the end, but what made the situation with him so surprising and more deliciously soul-crushing was how, despite all of the good and also selfish intentions, he lost himself along the way and hurt the person he found hope in.
I really wish more people read Zero right after finishing FSN VN instead of the bullshit anime Zero first experience thing that makes more people wanna roast and then cling to the opinion later on even when reading the novel. We'd have more people interpreting his character correctly this way💀
He was so thirsty he trusted zouken
No he was so desperate to Save Sakura from more worm rape that he went to Zouken,
@@jonboulet1614 if it was any other child, he won't care. Its all about Aoi, not Sakura. She was second thought because she is Aoi's child.
@@ousamadearudesuwawhy would he do all this for Aoi knowing he would never be with her since he would die? He did all this to save Sakura
Tsiah IV discussing Kariya and Fate Zero again… I clicked so fast
And it was all lies and half-truths.
Bro what did Kariya do to you? 😆. You slaughtered that man at the end. But nah I'm all for it. My boy truly did play himself on that "I'm the nice guy" narrative he had going in his head.
Bruh I been binging your vids for the last two days, excellent take, magnificent ending lmfao
12:54: " and you could feel how u want to feel, but at the end of the day, he was the one.......... rearranging her guts!!!!" Best quote to end off 2022.
That burn was one of the most violent line I ever heard.
Kariya's first (of many) mistake was listening to Zouken.
problem is he had nowhere else to turn.
@@jonboulet1614 you must be a kariya fan
@@emiyavalentine5969 he is a Kariya fanboy. He basically insulted Nasu, Takeuchi, and Gen Urobuchi in his comment by saying "Let them laugh. Because that won't rid the fact that he saved a little girl". Basically ignoring the fact that they roasted Gen's creation by basically stating that both of them could've done better and even make it rewarding for Kariya in Nasu's case(if he was the main dark hero of the story) in exchange that he lost everything. Basically he us insulting them by thinking he is better than the literal creators of Fate Zero and Fate Stay Night respectively.
If waver a literal no name Mage could become a member of the clock tower, he could've of Thrown around the Matou name to get some means of Mage training hell I'm pretty sure Matous enemies would welcomed him with opens arms if it meant he could be used to take out Zouken. Man's did nothing and demanding the world to give him everything.
No, Zouken himself had prestige, but trying to use the name of the house you disowned yourself from ain't really a smart thing.
@@RagnarokMasta yeah, either get adopted by a Clocktower mage or by the Church. Both of which Kariya is definitely not aware of since those two factions are just a lot more closed off for any kind of Mage.
Waver could only do that because Reines recognized his cunning and talent teaching others. But the only reason Waver is a Lord is because Reines, the actual successor of El-Melloi, needed someone to protect her from her political enemies in the Association until she grew old enough to claim the title (and marry Waver if her constant teasing is anything to go by).
@@lenleon3699 she will force him to marry her because she needed a convenient shield and a friend to be with her 24/7 once she takes over.
You know Kirie rebuking Kariya makes more sense and understandable now.
Except as with many thing Kirei says it's mixture of lies and half truths much like this video
@@jonboulet1614 what lies elaborate if there is indeed lies
@@jonboulet1614 Kirei doesn't lie, but he also isn't honest. But if there is one thing, he rebuked Shirou and Shinji and that was more honest despite knowing that Shinji basically fucked himself, while he can just make Shirou mentally tired.
There are a few issues in this writeup here. Most given in the novel and supplementary material, but a lot was in the show proper. First, Kariya left not because he was a busta, but because the Matou heir position is a lie, as you see with Sakura, who Zouken tried to make a living lab rat with far better potential than Kariya, he NEVER gives anyone his actual crest to pass on.
Zouken did indeed setup Aoi with Kariya since childhood for her trait, but that would have ended badly for Aoi, as you see with Shinji's mother, things don't turn out well for the mothers of these kids. In Zero Material, the very reason why Kariya left Fuyuki was because he saw Zouken's ultimate plan, which definitely isn't innocent matchmaker. For that matter, do you see Kariya and Byakuya's mother? They are only in their 30s during the war, their birth mother would have still been alive. I'd say Kariya has more than enough reason for jetting, as he wouldn't even be trained properly anyway, he would just be a lab experiment.
Now we agree that a lot of his motivation is to ultimately be with Aoi, but I don't think he doesn't care about the two sisters, even if he selfishly deludes himself as the father figure. So its very grey, as he held a flame for another man's wife despite the fact he had agreed to his choice because Zouken was so heinous. But the thing they highlight most in Zero Material is that none of the adult figures in these children's lives is right in the head, and all fell short of doing what was best for them as people. They were all distorted, and in those flaws and mental shortcomings, each failed these kids in their own way. When Kariya saved Rin, and saw how Kariya changed, she never talked with her husband about what might be going on with Sakura, Tokiomi also never questioned Kariya's anger about being a magus or about Sakura to Zouken, even when he himself considered Zouken to be selfishly evil if you read Zero's epilogue.
Hell, Nasu says Shirou shouldn't learn how to treat women from Kiritsugu. Even if you like something about the character, this work was highlighting how magi society, rather than being clear cut right and wrong, is "distorted". And that causes massive problems for the people in it.
Thank you. I bet there's not a single content creator in this western Nasuverse community on UA-cam who've followed the release timeline properly without excluding the databooks and not starting Fate/Zero with a mid anime adaptation. It definitely had to be that for people to end up formulating some negative biases strong enough that they end up re-enforcing them after reading the novel or maybe even the databooks. Kariya is an amazing part of the narrative and his character gets way too underappreciated.
@@_Aeterno I was surprised that people were holding this much negativity against him. Like sure, going after married woman is cringy, but bashing him for leaving the most hated mage family where every member turns into messed up creep is weird af. And saying that he's pathetic simply because he returned to this family to save Sakura is also weird, it's not like he could do much in this situation
@@alreadyd1d Even bashing him for going after a married woman is weird when the context gets into play. Kariya knew Tokiomi was a terrible father for sacrificing his own daughter Sakura and he had all the justification in his mind to think Aoi shouldn't be with this guy. Now, of course, there's more nuance like Kariya being setup with Aoi by Zouken since a while back before Kariya left Matou family, the fact that Tokiomi wasn't entirely incorrect about having Sakura not being part of Tohsaka family due to Mage Association in his mind most likely going after Sakura eventually and seal designating her (essentially killing her), the fact that Kariya's good past experiences with Aoi made Kariya not even consider how Aoi herself is just as much to blame for sacrificing Sakura as Tokiomi, and just how Kariya turned a blind eye to the fact that in the war he will be killing Sakura's father at the cost of saving Sakura herself. It's much more complicated to even think of narrowing stuff down to "going after a married woman is cringe" when there's clearly so much more to it than that.
@@_Aeterno not really THAT much going on, simply because Aoi is no saint with abusive husband, she made her choice, showed how much she "cares" for Sakura, and overall it's just his feelings playing with him. Going after someone like her is simply not it
@@alreadyd1d What's going on is more than enough to not overly simplify the situation in weird ways. Of course it's his feelings playing with him, and the context for it makes sense. Obviously if he didn't get emotional for his childhood friend's daughter being sacrificed by his own shitty family he would've lived and the story wouldn't happen. And there's no really a way for Kariya to not get emotional like this when presented with such bullshit. He didn't know if Aoi got manipulated/misinformed by Tokiomi and couldn't act like an overly rational robot, that's just unrealistic. He wasn't a mage and couldn't have such an inhuman reaction to the whole situation. Finding out Sakura's circumstances, the biases from Kariya's past being there already, the newfound guilt of being the one at fault for leaving (was his choice of getting away wrong? was that life a mistake?), allowing by that for Tokiomi to get into Aoi's life, and ultimately making Sakura go through the bullshit all came together. There's no way he would not have been considered a shitty person if he just decided to ignore it all because of the possibility of Aoi being partially at fault. HE himself was partially at fault, he wouldn't judge her as much as he would himself to just leave. That thought coming to his mind doesn't mean Kariya would've decided he'd be fine with not trying to make things right by Sakura and not feel like a scumbag for the rest of his life afterwards. Thinking about being in Tokiomi's place during the war was only natural in his situation, the man had to motivate himself with delusions to not break apart.
If Kariya could talk with Aoi properly it would've been super interesting but Gil/Kirei gang robbed us from that 💀
Aka sleep on kairya
Archer : PHRASING ! ! !
I’ll be honest it’s been a good while since I’ve seen zero. And the guy didn’t seem that bad. But holy hell this mans is just sad
Kariya did make a few mistakes.
1) Not using the power he got and his position more tactically. Or thinking outside the box.
2) Being too focused on using Lancelot to get his revenge on Tokiomi, when he could have probably used him to kill Zolken and save Sakura.
3) Not taking the feelings of the woman he loved into account.
4) Expecting his ideals to win the day.
5) Expecting Zolken to play fair or even making a deal with that devil to begin with.
Kariya could barely control Berserker and keep himself alive. He was smart hiding himself while letting his servant do the work but he isnt a mage or really even a fighter so in many ways he's in a worse spot than Waver.
He was trying to do the right things for the wrong reasons and there was 0 chance he was going to win the grail, he just had no choice but to play by Zouken's rules.
@@anusaukko6792
Lancelot can make any weapon his noble phantasm. So he’d be able to kill him with a flamethrower no problem….
Or a giant fly swatter.
As for Sakura’s worms. You can use the same method used in Grand Order. Lure them out with a high enough mama concentration item. Like the crest seals in a severs hand.
Bro left the mage world at a young age so I don’t think his knowledge was advanced enough to know these things
@@aviniciussouza100 yeah, Zouken can only due if you kill his core and purify his soul, thus destroying his anchor to the world. That is how deeply anchored to life Zouken is. Not even Kirei could do it, though he managed to reduce him to a mere single worm.
He actually cooperated with Chaldea in one timeline and beat Gilgamesh, saved Sakura though.
We need more of these roasting videos, they're fucking gold.
Fool's gold maybe. Tsiah was profoundly dishonest in everything he said.
Kariya never moved against Tokiomi until Sakura was sold to Zouken. He entered the war KNOWING he would die and KNOWING he would never get to spend time with Aoi and the girls again. He deemed that sacrifice worth it because he cared that deeply for Sakura.
Kariya trying to steal another man’s wife. Makes sense he summoned Lancelot.
Funnier than anything in this video.
But remember Kariya only joined the war because of what happened to Sakura. Otherwise hebwas content to be Aois friend
To add fuel to the fire, here is the talk from Gen Urobuchi, Kinoko Nasu, and Takeshi Takeuchi about Kariya during the 10th Anniversary of Fate series where they basically roasted him to the ground without mercy:
"Nasu: They're all pretty old, so they fight with firm belief systems. However, among them, Matou Kariya, who's fighting for Sakura's freedom, is an anomaly. He, and only he, fights for a very shonen manga-esque ideal, "to save a girl." In that respect, I think it's easier for the reader to identify with Kariya compared to the valiant types like Kiritsugu. And I heard that Uncle Kariya's actual popularity among fans is off the charts. He is in love with Aoi, who's actually a wedded woman with a child, but he still isn't able to grow up, and dreams about being united with her. He's a bit of a problem.
Takeuchi: I see. So Kariya is sort of like the chunibyo hero of the story.
Uro: It's a disease that summons death. Because he has the "chunibyo" disease, he let the worms into his body, until finally he only has one month left to life.
Nasu: Maybe all chunibyo are fated to end up this way... I have chronic chunibyo myself, so maybe I'll end up just like Kariya... (Laughs)
Takeuchi: Kariya really seems like the main character in the anime version of Fate/Zero. His drive to save Sakura and how he envelops the depression connected to Tokiomi really makes him look like a dark hero. Maybe that's why he's so popular.
Nasu: Usually if I drew a dark hero like Kariya, he'd lose almost everything only to have all his hard work pay off in the end. But of course, Urobuchi-san goes and has characters like Kariya die without any sort of retribution.
Uro: Well, I did let him see a "good dream" at the end. (Laughs) In the beginning, I actually wanted to do more with him. But because of the way his body ended up, making him fight more would kill him..."
He took on that pain to save a little girl and no amount of laughter at his expanse will change that.
@@jonboulet1614 the thing is, he didn't do it for her sake either. Nasu basically pointed it out in how Gen wanted to show it, his basic inferiority to everything. Something akin to what Nasu would double down for Shirou back in Heaven's Feel Route, and even further back with Kara no Kyoukai making a decent roster of characters suffer and get redemption in the end. Even then what Kariya did to try and save Sakura backfired, and made it even firm for Sakura not to go against Zouken's orders, it was Shirou who truly saved Sakura without being a huge manchild that cannot let go of Aoi, feels guilt once he knows that Zouken will just find another replacement anyways as if he lives in a fairytale wonderland of his own fantasy, goes all out against Tokiomi and blames him for everything going wrong, crawls back to Zouken without anything in his name, nearly killing Aoi and blaming her for anything and saying he is the one saving her, has a grand delusion that Sakura and Rin calls him Daddy, and even Nasu basically allowing every form of roast the Zero characters had for him in a non canon spinoff. Basically they're correct while you're akin to a child who hasn't seen the horrors of the Mai Lai massacre and thinks that the American soldiers did nothing wrong since it was the one in command giving such orders. Yes say that to their faces that they are laughing while Kariya basically made it worse for Sakura, he gave her a glimpse of a future she can still regain, but even then he already fucked up without even realizing that he basically died and made her double down on her own suffering and trying her best to endure the stuff Zouken was doing to her, making it clear that she cannot and should not fight back if not for Angra Mainyu basically doing the boost and personality change she wanted to break free, it took a teenage boy of her age group, a teenager who is considered the worst magus next to Waver, so bad that he cannot even do his magic properly since he had bad training from Kiritsugu, a teenager whose life is way more of a husk than Kariya, a boy so selfish and selfless that he will not back down just to save someone, whether be it Saber, Rin, Illya, Sakura, Rider, and even Archer, it took only that one teenager, who has nothing to win nor to lose was the one that actually save her in the very end, directly or indirectly in every Fate Route. Kariya barely won anything, he lost more than anyone else, he basically helped a monster like Kirei take out Tokiomi, he nearly murdered Aoi, made Rin more than traumatized for what happened with her mother, made Sakura fall into even more despair, ordered Berserker kidnap Irisviel and while Maiya was brutally maimed, and simply made Zouken use him as a pawn to silence Sakura unless Shirou has decided to save her out of selfishness and cast away his pride for the woman he loves. What Kariya did was only made everything that could go wrong, goes horribly wrong.
Now I dare you spit out your comment towards Nasu and Gen Urobuchi in his interview and they won't give a single damn about it since they basically agreed that Gen made Kariya to be the worst master who only makes things worse.
@@jonboulet1614 and did that girl wanted it? Yes, but did she get it? No. Don't defend someone because they did good, when in fact their actions made it worse.
He's no Waver, he is not Fujimaru, and he is definitely not Shirou.
Waver climbed his way to be noticed by the Clocktower despite being considered garbage in every way possible as a magus, and even gained the attention of Reines, while je is also a student of Archibald el Melloi, and has always worked the most and was rewarded the spot he is right now in the Clocktower as a substitute lord, a worker for the El Melloi family, and a potential partner for Reines.
Kariya is also no Fujimaru, who at first joined Chaldea for a job, but has been striving their best(depending on character selection, I'll just use plural pronouns for them) just to survive, once it was to "save humanity" but that is the bullshit old Chaldea made for their mage teams(something Daybit was able to find out) as a reason for their work, but look at their sheer desire to survive, they even tried to save people from already destroyed Lostbelts, trying to salvage those who wanted to, they even inherited Kirschtaria's will to strive for a better future for humanity, inherited Qin Shi Huang's desire to protect humanity, and even earned the love and affection of Musashi, Castoria, Circe, Serenity, Jalter, Ereshkigal, Quetzcoatl, Traum version of Kiyohime, and even ORT's deified core, known in the form of Kukulkan, they also sacrificed themselves for the people they love the most, and Fujimaru can do nothing but remember them and move on and carry on their wills and legacy, not to save humanity, but to survive. And remember to make thise characters fall for them is not an easy fear, maybe except Serenity and Kiyohime, but that is because of certain reasons I am not going to say.
Kariya's stubbornness is basically the flaw Shirou has the most in Heaven's Feel route, but unlike Kariya, Shirou was basically a shit mage and is still the man who has basically became a husk of himself, and is only going forward because of Kiritsugu saving him, despite that, he always strives to be better, he never crawled back to anyone for help from the very start when he decided to help Saber, Rin, or Sakura and only did so because he was not just stubborn, he was always in a very difficult spot and was severely damaged by his opposition, which was mostly Gilgamesh, although Zouken can be considered but that was when all hope was lost and had to ask help from a certain priest that smiled as he saw him suffer, yet those circumstances happen because he faced adversity and came back because he was already prepared before all events happened and even when being dragged into the grail war, he still held his own against Lancer, all alone before he was about to be overwhelmed and summoned Saber by sheer coincidence. Yet he has every merit to do so.
Yet Kariya is the opposite of these three people I mentioned. Yes he has the roots of coming from the Matou family, but he left and did nothing but live a poor life of a failed writer rather than honing his own magic while living in exile, which technically wasn't something he can do, he came crawling back and had nothing of note to back up when he came crawling. Hell Shirou only came to Kirei, Illya, or Rin because they themselves offered that help as all hope was lost and by that time he was already an established master of the war and was already standing up on his own in every single route. Yet Kariya was doing this because he felt guilty, when what happened to Sakura was expected for Zouken to do. Zouken wasn't there to offer him actual help either, he just came back and Zouken offered a fake proposal that can be considered him showing his worth and still manage to fuck it up. Kariya tried to save Sakura and only to make the rift between Sakura and Rin even more obvious, but also made everything worse than when he didn't need to.
Yet when Shirou tried to save Sakura, he knows that saving her is not because he loved Rin the same way Kariya loved Aoi, but it is because he loves Sakura and was always showing that he has every merit to do so and succeed or be treated with respect or a form of rivalry by everyone that is not Gilgamesh or Zouken, even Archer, who hates him and wants him to die the most, had began to respect Shirou and his dedication and unwavering faith as he removed the title of hero because he wanted to and become an actual hero because he abandoned it to save either Rin, or Sakura. Kariya wanted to become Rin and Sakura's Daddy and hero of his fantasy with Aoi if he ever succeeded in saving her.
And yet he's still a really popular character.
@@Honest_Mids_Masher yes, he is popular, but that doesn't mean he is a good person either.
Kariya: oh no not the consequences of my own actions!
If he had stayed and married Aoi the same thing would have heppened to their daughters. It wasn't Kariya's fault in the slightest.
11:36
Honestly this is probably the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone bringing up Byokuya, Kayira, and Shinji’s mother. And thinking about it there’s probably a good reason why we never see or hear about her.
I mean think about it. You know all the messed up things Zolken has done to Sakura. And how he’s treated his own children as little more than tools at the best of times. It wouldn’t surprise me one iota if she was chained and locked up somewhere in a dark seller being ether a broodmare, or seedbed for Zolken’s bugs of some other fait worse than death.
12:04
That is a interesting point. Part of me wonders if Zolken agreeing to help Kariya is a twisted way of him living through him. Seeing Kariya and his obsession with the woman that he loved like Zolken’s obsession with Justies.
Oh you didn't know why we dont hear about them? after a breeding partner has been used in the zolken family succesfully, He tortures them then feeds them to the pit, yeah under that worm pit is the skeletons of dozen of men and women that breed with the matous, there is also the heirs that failed to live up to his expectations rotting as well down there.
@@GodShadowdeath I bet that's exactly why the Matou Family is as f****d as it is, How can the Matou's magic cirtuits and magecraft improve if Zouken just keeps killing them?
@@GodShadowdeath
And people acting like Kayira abandoning the family responsibility is a bad thing. Knowing that there’s a good chance you’d just be bug food in the end. Kayira ducking out of the Zolken household is probably the smartest thing he’s ever done. The problem is he came back.
We did hear about Shinji's mother in FSN though. She's dead and apparently Zouken fed her to the worms in the basement.
@@KeeKage37 and the only reason he came back was Sakura being sold to Zouken which Tsiah lies about
Ending got me crying at work 😂
Good call out, talking about Zouken and Justeeze being so similar to Kariya and Aoi
They're nothing alike. Zouken loved Justeaze but his insanity arose from resentment at his failure to acquire the blessing of the grail and ensure his own immortality not out of her loss.
And Justeaze created the Grail to reach the root.
Aoi just wanted to be a proper Yamato Nadesico.
@@jonboulet1614 they are. Stop deluding yourself.
When it comes to who obsessed with their woman, both came the same. They only drowned themselves into even worse paths in life. Zouken lost his goal for Justeaze, while Kariya turned Aoi into a fucking vegetable, and the only caveat is that it traumatized Rin, and made Sakura's suffering even worse. While Zouken has basically fallen into a shadow of his original self.
You know the ironic thing is I finished Fate Zero recently and thought the same things about Kariya.
And you were also wrong
Its sad how kariya isnt even mentioned in the other Fate's
Well he is brought up in Fate Grand Order in a event related to Zero.
In that one El-Melloi II goes back and replays the events of Fate Zero though a singularity. Changing allot of the outcomes. That one has my favorite scenario. We’re Islander and Karia team up and form a deal. Islander Raids the Zolken household and his army kills Zolken and burns his bugs. Karia agrees to give up Berzerker and sacrifices his hand with the crest seals to Islander to free himself and Sakura from the worms. Afterwards both Karia and Sakura are sent to a hospital to recover. But that’s the last of their involvement in the story.
Really? Not even a little?
@@KeeKage37 Oh okay that's not too bad. It's probably the best ending for Kariya tbh.
Considering Kariya was introduced in a standalone prequel that came out after the original VN it makes sense.
@@KeeKage37 Which he would do because ultimately hes here to save Sakura.
I don't understand all the hate for Kariya. You all defend the toshaka family which didn't give a damn about Sakura, and the only reason they cared about rin is because she was the chosen one to carry the toshaka magic and stuff. They literally dont care about their own children. Kariya massive hate for Tokiomi wasnt because he was jealous, it was because Tokiomi said that he didn't give a damn about sakura and there can only be 1 mage in the family so sakura can be thrown away. That triggered Kariya and made him even more mad at Tokiomi.Not to mention this is a damn war and they are enemies anyway. Some people say he did that to get Aoi, but how is he going to get aoi if he literally been told that he is going to die anyway? He knew that no matter what he does there is no going back, he just want to save Sakura, thats all. Not to mention he even saved rin from death. He is a better father figure than tokiomi ever will be and he is doing all this for another's person daughter. About how he almost killed Aoi, i agree this wasn't a good action, but Aoi blamed him for everything and he was also burned alive by her husband and was eaten by bugs constantly for a year, not to mention the trauma those bugs probably did to his brain. At the last moment he managed to hold himself and not kill her. So both tokiomi and Aoi are heartless assholes that blame kariya for trying to save a little kid thats been raped by bugs for years, and he was the only one who cared and even gave his life for her
Yeah right i agree, i think the people here are way to harsh to kariya
@@Jonah-langah, another fella late to the party like myself. Yeah I like Kariya! Closest thing to reality I’ve seen in a character on the show. Bro is flawed in a way that only a human can be. For me, the yearning, the bad decisions, the panic and all this tangled twisted mess of avenues all meeting in his head-very, EXTREMELY relatable imo. Anime character that could be a real person with those actions, I actually really really enjoy him.
@@QuantumMechaYeah i agree
JESUS CHRIST!
forget a roast, forget a burn, forget an incineration, this was a GOD DAMNED DISINTEGRATION! good lord!
I dunno HOW you woke up this morning and decided "yknow what? imma just bury this man alive in front of everyone and dare anyone to say anything about it."
and then proceed to make a 13 min video BREAKING EVERY SINGLE FACET OF HIS BEING. My eyes were wide during this whole video man!
Kariya is like a drunk driver.
The drunk driver is driving drunk by his own will, he drinks then takes the car.
If he rolls over a kid, he cant use alcohol as excuse to leverage the crime, instead he is the one commiting two crimes, both drinking and driving and then rolling over the kid with the car
How many drunk drivers are leveraged into drinking and driving with the promise of freedom for a suffering child slave?
@@jonboulet1614 ... i think he took something stronger than alcohol
@@onemoregodrejected9369 He took poison he knew would kill him because it was the only way he could find to save Sakura and it was the onyl way Zouken would take him on as surrogate master in the grail war.
Now I understand his character............ in a bad way.
I still pitied him tho, the man had to visit his crush in the worst time possible
I love kariya, and I can say that him leaving the matou household ain’t his fault, things in that family were so screwed that any person would be traumatised, which could of left him to spiral out of control. But the fact that he knew how crazy zouken was and the fact that he relied on zouken to help a girl that ain’t even his was definitely his fault
He didn't have anywhere else to turn. What magus family would sponsor a cast-off like Kariya to enter the grail war?
@@jonboulet1614 there are some who do, but that would be giving Kariya the intelligence of a man for his age.
@@ousamadearudesuwayeah some do but only those who show intelligence and a good prowess in magecraft both of which Kariya lacks
@@londonmason6129 i mean, that's the point. In both departments, Kariya lacks on both fronts.
I’m so glad you are doing more videos please keep making good videos like always kariya did have a bad story I felt bad when the worms took him over I don’t feel bad now
You really should though Tsiah was incredibly bad faith here.
Kariya never had any designs against Tokiomi until he sold Sakura to Zouken at which point he accepted the worms KNOWING THEY WOULD KILL HIM. For the CHANCE that Sakura would be let go.
That was his motivation and Tsiah straight up lies about it in the first half and then claims Sakura being assaulted doesn't matter in the second half.
My man went off and spoke the truth
Actually he lied. Kariya had no designs on attacking Tokiomi nor stealing Aoi before Sakura was sold off to the Matou. And even after that he knew he had no future with them because the worms were going to kill him and he knew this before they were implanted. Kariya knowingly sacrificed his life for Sakura.
I do find it funny that had he done nothing he wouldve had a nearly guatanteed chance at aoi since tokiomi wouldve died in the war. All he wouldve had to do was not look like a useless bum post war and he wouldve gotten at least 2/3rds of his dream.
I am here, immediately.
Wow, you completely destroyed that dude.
With lies and half truths
Kariya thought he was gonna get the dub against a mage who's main element was fire!?
Was Kariya turning himself into a living corpse filled with bugs really the best choice he could've made? Zouken is a mashed-up clump of bugs, just blast him with some insect killer from Home Depot.
That wouldn't work for a myriad of reasons
1) Zouken can most certainly protect himself against basic human weapon. Yes kiritsugu proves that a mage shot is still a dead mage, but the thing to keep in mind is that kiritsugu doesn't fight frontally if he can help it, will hit you off guard if possible, and that zouken is a very powerful mage: i doubt someone like kiritsugu killed that many, and we are asking KARIYA to do it
2)As long as he has a backup bugs zouken will revive. His best bet is somehow managing to get enough explosive to destroy the entire mansion, and managing to put them there, and the mansion would have bounded field to prevent that from happening
3) Zouken most likely scares the shit out of kariya, for good reasons, much like for most mage kids their father is in their minds an untouchable existence,. And zouken is a prime example why.
To think Kariya could kill zouken is really fantasy. Best way would be to pay a mercenary to do it, and the kind of mercenaries that would be skilled enough to actually succeed are not people kariya would ever be able to afford
No really the best thing he could have done is swallow his pride and explaining to tokiomi why zouken is lying and not actually making Sakura his heir. Tokiomi is probably weaker than zouken but he at least has more money, connection and power to succeed than kariya would
Kirei tried that, it didn’t work. He had planted himself in the next host.
@@namoma4922 And there are other families of mage out there who is less degenerate enough to be another Zouken who would accept Sakura. Conflict solved
@@KhanhNguyen-mh5ec A pity Tokiomi didn''t go to any of them.
@@jonboulet1614 Because he’s an idiot and fully deserve what happened to him. He trusted a text book definition of a psychopath, he didn’t crack a textbook before the war, and he didn’t do reasearch on Zouken not even a light visit. Thanks to that. Said psychopath killed him, mismanaged his funds, and now his daughter is in danger of his other daughter. Fuck him.
I will never forget this guy, I just can't remember his name, but his image is always in my mind when I'm watching these seasons
This devolved from an analysis to a full on roast! 😂😂 My mans said “FCK Kariya!”
All this disrespect for this poor bastard
And all of it dishonest.
Bro had the 3rd strongest servant in the war and threw it all away for a woman who wasn't even his
If he had used Lancelot tactfully he would have meant some serious business
Berserker wasn't exactly the tactical type either. Always attacking Saber over everyone else regardless of the situation.
@@jonboulet1614 sure, it wasn't the tactical type, but considering that Kariya actually can do it but is a massive incompetent moron that it doesn't matter. Hell your own argument falls apart once you realized that he used his magic to conceal Berserker to look like Rider and kidnap Irisviel. If that wasn't tactical than I dunno what the fuck is not tactical about it.
@@ousamadearudesuwaHoly…I know it’s a full year late, I just cannot believe I’ve seen you underneath probably EVERY comment this guy wrote. 🤯 Holy fuck I never knew hatred for a character could be this strong; I mean, it’s SO strong that Goku wants to fight it! Again, year later, I know, but wow. It’s hate for jonboulet or hate for Kariya, maybe both. Either way….I mean I looked at another comment, jonboulet commented, and sure enough you were RIGHT on his ass. Damn bruh!! I had to edit this shit cause I saw it AGAIN that’s like 6x
@@QuantumMecha Have you also read the comments from @jonhboulet1614? This guy is also everywhere, defending kariya non-stop.
@@marcomonteiro449 I really don’t mind Jon because it’s a fictional character from an eroge series that he is talking about and focused on-it’s not that bothersome because it’s ultimately an opinion and it’s about an anime character. Fine with me. Other guy literally just focused on FOLLOWING this guy around everywhere which is specifically what I cannot get behind. Seems petty and stupid for the sake of being petty and stupid.
*EDIT: If it was one or two comments fine, but it is like 5-6 comments. I just don’t get it.
also a thing about Aoi is that and she even states this herself she understood what she was getting into when marrying Tokiomi and accepted that to Kariya's face, like when she got pregnant with sakura what were they gonna do? abort the child because they already had a magus child? like the magus life is dangerous as fuck theres always a chance teaching them goes awry and that child dies in the process at a young age, i think Sakura at best was a back up in case Rin failed and upon realising Rins latent talent eventually had sakura as a bargaining tool which they assumed was in Sakura's best interest as a mage (at least Aoi assumed so, Tokiomi i think he said that just to manipulate Kariya a bit), like Tokiomi is a piece of shit but he is a "talented" magus (or so they tell us) and again probably planned incase Rin died or didnt have the prowess, although i still kinda think he just preferred Rin more.
Tokiomi: dont put words in my mouth!
*vomits crest worm*
Tokiomi: dont put worms in your mouth!
Something I'd like to note is that Tokiomi isn't lying at all about having Sakura's best interest as a mage, and also for her as his daughter. In the light novels he has an inner monologue about his reasoning for handing Sakura to the Matou's. He knew Sakura had a non-standard Element, one that wasn't (apparently, we all know how wrong he turned out to be) useful for defending herself, and would likely have a sealing designation placed on her, as she wouldn't be the heir and therefore wouldn't receive the same level of protection Rin would get. He didn't want her to have to be forced to live like that, being used and abused by the Mage's Association. So he gave her to Zouken not seeing any other choice than for her to be a mage heir where she would be protected in his mind. If it was up to him, both he would've kept both of them, but that wasn't on option in his mind. The problem with this is that he believed that it was fine to do this as the Matou were "trusted allies" for centuries.
Mages are a secretive bunch. No one outside of the Matou knows what goes on with them and how they develop their magecraft. No one outside the family, aside from Kariya who is an exiled family member who came back, knew about how disgusting their craft is. We also should remember that Tokiomi has shown that he cares for innocents, and was the only one aside from Waver really disturbed by Caster's actions. For all that I disagree with Tokiomi's odd combination of magus morality, and conventional morality fueled decision, he didn't know, and from all the material we have on Tokiomi, if he knew what the Matou did, he wouldn't have gave Sakura to them. His only mistake in my opinion, is one we see him make till the end of his life. Being a bad judge of character. He trusted Gilgamesh and Kirei which lead to his death. He trusted Zouken due to his own misguided belief in the institutions of mages and that Zouken was honorable due to him being a ally to the Tohsaka's for centuries.
@@KiraDaBeastNY absolutely fair response tbf the only material I've seen for Tokiomi was what we saw animated from the show and Heavens feel movies which for heavens feel obviously was like 1 or 2 scenes to show Sakura's fear of abandonment, so thanks my guy you taught me more lore today.
Great perspective! The first time I saw Zero, I did feel bad for him, but after getting more into Fate, I agree with everything you said.
Except he lies about the context to paint Kariya in the worst light possible.
Remember Kariya had no designs on Tokiomi or the grail until Tokiomi sold Sakura to Zouken.
The description of this video was indeed a correct assessment. He's literally roasting him for 13 minutes xD
The roast is profoundly inaacurate though.
Emiya chose that outcome and ran with it because even his good intentions weren't enough to get him that happy ending.
You know this series way better than me and I'm mostly an anime only with some wiki on the side, but how it read to me was he didn't want to be with Aoi because he was a Matou and the shit he knew she would have to go through to be part of the household. Then when he found out the husband gave Sakura to his family he lost his shit because it was like "well, what was the point then?"
Kariya is the definition of SIMP. he shouldve leveled up to EMIYA and became MGTOW and focus on self improvement. He made his bed and he had to lay in it. Sad. As soon as he saw Rins mother didnt want him he shouldve fell back and forgot about her. SIMPing is the path to the dark side.
Whats MGTOW
@@risekujikawa7763
*Disclaimer:*
I'm not a member, don't know how to join, nor am I interested in doing so at the moment. -
- *MGTOW; AKA, "Men Go Their Own Way."* -
I believe the idea behind it is that it's a group men can join to receive/provide moral support, advice, feedback; stuff like that for each other.
It's essentially just a community of dudes, _for_ dudes.
I don't know if it has a specific purpose aside from that.
I've heard/seen a decent number of dudes say that joining it helped them out of toxic relationships, but I don't expect it to be super special when compared to other communities one can join.
I'm sure everyone in there has a reason for joining though.
@@risekujikawa7763 look up mediocre tutorials and reviews on youtube. thats mgtow.
positive support and advice for men.
@@risekujikawa7763 yeah don't go to far or you might become a incel
It wasn't simping that made him enter the war though. Itwas Sakura's plight.
11:55 Like litarally the protagonist of the show, and his adoptive son.
Just called this man a "nice" guy damn fucking brutal
And he ignored numerous details to do so. Pretty pathetic of Tsiah if you ask me.
@@jonboulet1614 I agree.
This is just fictional depiction of how simping can absolutely ruin someone's life. Never go full simp boys, never
So Kariya is a simp and Tokiomi is a chad.
@@okita_souji_alter No, because he never had to own up to it. He says he wishes that Sakura and Rin had more of a say in their lives, but never did anything to really help Sakura. He knew he couldn't train her, but he conveniently forgot that he had his relatives on the back burner who he considered as candidates for adoption. He says there were no teachers, but by what we know now, magi with Imaginary Numbers who were better suited as teachers than Zouken were available at the time. What his idea was in giving her to Zouken would be to give an asset to an old "ally" for political reasons, even if Zouken's powers and blood weren't compatible with Sakura's body and the only reason she gained anything was because she had that much inborn talent. Tokiomi himself says that the Einzbern and Makiri are evil and greedy in Zero's prolonged, only having earthly lusts and nothing else. So this deal was solidly more to aid his quest for the Root, because somehow he thought that a 4 year old would unseat an evil Grand level archmagus if things went south. She did kinda eventually, but lost much more than she got back if we're all honest.
Further, when Nasu was questioned about what he would think of the outcome of HF between the sisters, he says he would consider it just like he mentioned in Zero, whatever effects to the sisters, it would "be a win for their family if they came to obtain great magic". That isn't owning up to your mistakes, that tripling down on them posthumously.
Tokiomi is an idiot. Gilgamesh paid me to say so.
Tokiomi is nowhere near a chad.
Being honest, they are the same. Tokiomi is pathetic.
Tokiomi is way worse than Kariya.
Tsiah got increasingly more salty at Kariya the longer the video went on. *chef's kiss*
I’m all here for the karia slander
This is the energy I'm looking for in a vid ur killing it man
That dishonest energy?
I really don't know what to make of this. But, Kariya, is just one of the most unfortunate dudes in fate. I can see his faults, but most of this feels like just be a man talk and a roast session, so I have no idea if he really is as bad as he made him out to be.
The biggest doubt I have is the jokes they made at his expense.
Bro really pulled out the n word just to diss Kariya 💀
I still like Kariya, but overall you did make many good points and some of your roasts on Kariya were mad funny, so overall good video
I agree
Love your videos keep up the good work.
@@MyGoodFunZZ glad you enjoy them!
From 1-10, how racist would it be to think he has the n word pass according to the way he speaks?
Fate/Accel Zero Order had even Rider call him out on his goals.
Rider would have killed Tokiomi and taken Aoi as his own. WIllingluy of course because Charisma
O my God just destroyed this man at the end
before i've never really give any thought about Kariya motivation before, so this was eye opening but yeah he made his bed so he should lay in it
Except he really didn't. None of this was his fault.
He didn't chose to be born into the Matou family.
He didn't choose Aoi as a breeding prospect for the Matou.
He didn't choose to give up Sakura to Zouken.
He did choose the worms but only because he had no other options to save Sakura who Tokiomi gave away and Aoi failed to protect.
Don't go laying this on Kariya.
Fate is such a bitter sweet story.
People were feeling sorry for Kariya. Meanwhile me who enjoyed his suffering with Kirei and Gil. 😁
Yeah even though the 10th anniversary stuff where Gen, Takeuchi and Nasu basically said how much they went on how pathetic Kariya is in their own way. With Nasu saying "He wants to save Sakura, He is in love with Aoi, who is a wedded woman, and he never grew up, and he is a problem" and if he wanted to, he could've asked Gen to make him go for his own divine retribution for his actions but he also liked the Urobuchi way of not giving Kariya anything worthy for his own death.
Meanwhile Takeuchi calls him a Chunibyo hero of the story. A.k.a. an adult with an 8th grader syndrome. Which Gen Urobuchi then said it is a disease that only brings death upon him.
Meanwhile Urobuchi gave him a "good dream" on his deathbed because even when he wanted him to continue with Kariya, his own condition made it impossible for Urobuchi to make it even worse for Kariya.
Which....is damn son, even your creators roasted you more than us enjoying his suffering.
He sacrificed himself for a child that was suffering.
Well Kariya knows what Zouken is capable of and well we do know what happens to Sakura. It's pretty grim. So yeah he's creepy and weird trying to start a family with Aoi, but it can also be true that he legitimately wanted to save Sakura.
Huh, I never thought about it that way, good video
This is where SIMPING leads to. Never SIMP.
man, that ending could kill a man, especially if he was the target, calm down bro, he already died
"do you have a job? Can you build something?" 💀💀💀💀 LMFAOOOOOO
Yes he had a job. He left it to burn his life to save Sakura.
If not for his family line, I think He and Waver are the most normal ones in the 4th hgw.
they still are sad to say
Nah, Kariya came from a really f@$%ed up household and he just retreated to what he knew was familiar once he failed at life. He was delusional to think that he could come back and become some kind of hero or even get happiness. Also, Sakura was virtually brainwashed. Rin is the only one who got out ok.
Yeah cuz Kirei killed all bad people in her life
@@garrettnewell374 that's the thing. Kirei actually did something and has the knowledge and skill to do so.
In other words Kirei is bay
After thought and consideration (reading the comments) I can say this dude really not the best
If he could have stayed on the path to save Sakura that would have been fine
But if he had the full intention of getting with lady that's just crazy, cuz he did have intention to murder Rin & Sakura's father, like, how could he think that was cool
Cuz I stan Sakura, so its like okay dude wanted to save her from Zouken and the worms, I feel that
But for him to go back to lady and Rin with a now damaged Sakura
He gotta relax. . .thats just a no go dude
Other people point out the Lancelot Zerk parallels and its like, ah shit, I see now
Somebody put Kariya's face over Adrien Broner when he saying, "I can't lie, I'm getting cooked."
Damn, glad I'm not that pathetic
You know, it's kinda fitting that he paired with Lancelot when he summoned a Berzerker; since they both completely destroyed their lives and everything they cared about over a married woman. Maybe my humor is just fucked like that, but looking at it like that in hindsight was just fucking hilarious and couldn't have been a coincidence on the writer's part.
Alright don't know if anyone will read this as late as I am but I think I was misinformed at some point. From what I understand/remember Kariya met and fell in love with Aoi as a kid and even had a chance at the whole marriage thing before Tokiomi was even in the picture. The Problem was that he learned (or knew) that Zouken wanted/approved of his pursuit of Aoi because her family traits (or whatever) meant it was highly likely that her kids would have high potential due to magic circuits (circuits that for whatever reason where becoming less and less common in the Matou family). Kariya knowing that Zouken wanted him to hook up with Aoi and knowing/learning about his family's mage craft (ie crest worms) decided even though he loved Aoi and really wanted to hook up with her (ie marry) that unless he can somehow get his "father/grandfather" Zouken out of the picture that actually doing so would bring Aoi (and himself) nothing but misery since she/they would have to watch or stand by as Zouken does what he does to any children she births. Kariya having never taken up mage craft seriously and with what he knew of Zouken resigned himself to the fact that he would never be able to kill him and therefore did both himself and Aoi a favor and left though he did keep in enough contact to become viewed as an uncle figure by her kids. Years later Kariya hears (probably from Aoi or during a visit) that Tokiomi gave his daughter Sakura to Zouken and that Aoi is broken up about it. Kariya decides he has to try and do something, because he still carries a torch for Aoi, because he kind of likes her kids as surrogate nieces/daughters (ie the daughters he could have had if Zouken wasn't in the picture), and because he doesn't want any kid to go through the whole Crest Worm experience (especially if that is Aoi's kid and especially since the reason he never made a move was to avoid this scenario). Unfortunately, Zouken wasn't in a negotiating mood and Kariya wasn't any better at mage craft now then he was when he was younger (ie he didn't want anything to do with mage craft) so he couldn't force the issue. However, Zouken decided to give Kariya the chance to free Sakura by having him win the upcoming Graill War for him. Kariya reluctantly and desperately agrees and because he knows he has no chance otherwise Zouken convinces him to get a really quick crash course in Crest Worms after which we get the Kariya we see in Fate Zero. A Kariya that is going mad (ie losing his faculties) and who struggles to keep his goal of freeing Sakura in mind.
Kariya is kind of guy who love a girl but Saw what kind enviroment he came and let the girl go and leave. While not married to the girl at the very least her daughters love him as a uncle and an IIRC Tokiomi himself never have problem with kariya (probably self consious that has liltle time to spent with his family and let Kariya being a sort of figure for them). Kariya was content all things consider, until Sakura went to Matou and undergone that training. I am sure Kariya does care for Sakura and Rin and his action is genuinely comes from his desire to save Sakura but deep down even though he was content he was dissatisfied and regret even letting go Aoi. As a results with Crest Worm it's Twisted Kariya into a cuck he was in Zero. Honestly if he actually sit down with Tokiomi and explain everything i am sure Tokiomi Will understand ( or at the very best investigate on his own ). He might even swallow his pride and sent sakura to Edelfelt family if he had to because he genuinely loves his family. Alas it's happen as it is.
Thx for the video
Nasu mentioned once that Kariya's magic circuits were quite strong for commanding a servant, which means that he never needed the worms at all. After all, Ryuunosuke, with ZERO training, summoned Gilles de Rais even while botching the entire chant.
And we do know what happened to Shinji's mom; Zouken took over her body after Shinji was born. The body that he's occupying in Fate Zero was once Shinji's mother.
He hadn't trained in years. It's questionable whether he could have even put those circuits to use without Zouken's "help"
@@jonboulet1614 again, Ryuunosuke did it with no training, ever, and with weaker circuits to start with.
@@downix True but that has alot to do with Caster extracting the mana he needs from their victims to an extent that is much more extreme than FSN!Rider and FSN!Caster. Uryu was providing Caster with mana by providing those children.
I think we can both agree sinking to such a low would be worse morally than taking on the bugs.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying Kariya COULDN'T pull a Shirou but he would need Lancelot as any other class than Berserker since it would require his servant to think and plan intelligently.
@@jonboulet1614 or don't summon Lancelot. Imagine him with, say, EMIYA, for just a moment.
@@downix That would be pretty busted. Although Kariya would have no way of knowing of a future "hero". But yeah if base Kariya got command seals without Zouken (not impossible but certainly not a garuntee) and summoned Archer (also possible but not something you could plan for) he could win HGW4 with mid to high difficulty.
At the start of the story Shirou is incredibly ripped, a great cook, a handyman who can repair things, genuinely helpful and he is wealthy. Nevermind Archer, from the jump he is offering a ton more than Kariya.
This bum really used all that energy and resources to a girl who don't even like him and already has a husband. certified SIMP
Hope you begin a series like your Don't sleep on series where you roast characters 😂
Well for me this is admirable
I mean I kinda agree? After all, Kariya is pathetic. But (I'm guessing because this is a roast) you gave waaaaay too much credit/room to Zouken lmao, this roast almost made Zouken sound like someone who deserved respect
His roast acted like Kariya should have stayed in a family where his only role would be to breed future hosts.
Tsiah is running on maximum bad faith in this video
conclusion "something is wrong with your whole bloodline, like god damn all you of you go banana for bitches and do crazy shit". like decide what you wanted to be a good guy or a villain but noke you became the embodiment of L.
like zoulken could have stoped shit if he confessed to the woman he loved, kariya could have done better if he steeled his heart and shinji naah he is useless in mage craft but mans supposed to be like 1 percent of tony stark so yeah he could easily have become rich and stuff, hell he could learn the magecraft of other branches except the clock tower.
The Makiri family is a line of simps.
Fate zero was my first date so I didn’t think of him like this. Thought he was just trying to help Sakura.
Now that I’ve watched the animes heard stuff from the LN and mangas and played fgo I know how dark type moon is. This guy was outta control like pick another girl and walk away. Best ending???? She chooses you and you’re in this cruel world with your kids??? Get out
So because he has feelings for Aoi he should leave Sakura to suffer? That's nuts!
I nearly forgot about this dude. And when I was watching fate/zero I barely cared about what he was doing. All I cared about was berserker and All the other characters.
I cared about him since he was the only remotely heroic master
@@jonboulet1614 I wouldn’t say that kiritsugu was the only one that’s heroic to me, even if he used underhanded and dirty methods he still was doing for the worlds sake.
@@Ultimaxum17x Kiritsugu was certainly utilitarian and his end goal could easily be considered heroic so I'll grant remote heroism. But this is also the character who saw sparing the innocent people of the Fuyuki Hyatt as a moment of weakness. To say nothing of the way he treats Maiya a woman he more or less raises.
I think that you was right in many points of Kariya: Is a simp of a person that no love, a stupid that no known in the hell that Is a Holy grail war AND a terrible máster. But Is a lie that Kariya does not love Sakura like a uncle/father. When hurt Aoi, he think that he kill her, but do not exit of the war. He keep fighting because even being a selfish, he want to save Sakura and hate himself because take away your mother. The einzbern consultation Is not serious in that term of p3d0, only Lancelot talk shit about him because he never known that he want to save a child.
Yeah Tsiah lies about Kariya's motivation for entering the war. IT was purely to save Sakura. Had Tokiomi never sold her off he never would have moved against him.
The fact that I was with you in that same opinion. Poor Kariya, I thought. But when he choked out Rin's mother, I was astounded how much I did a 180. This video put my thoughts together, and I agree, Kariya should have tried to be a man and marry the girl when he had the chance. When he left, he should have admitted defeat, but no, my boy became a truly horrible human being by using the *kids* and their suffering by propping him up as a righteous counter to Tokiomi. Yet the mother is complicit, and Tokiomi has no ill will. The man even tried to explain to Kariya why he did what he did to his kids, as if he was lecturing a truly ignroant dumbass. Yet Kariya didn't want to understand; he wanted to be The Hero and in the right.
Here’s the thing tho, leaving with Aoi if he decided to stay with her ain’t saving Aoi from Zouken. He will find her. And eat her alive
So he should have let Sakura be violated by worms?
@@jonboulet1614 The matter is that this wasn't Kariya's place to meddle. Even if he had good intentions, he had no authority, ability, or influence to stop what had been set into motion. Because he chose to turn his back on Aoi when he had full rein to be wed with her, he should have stayed out of her life. Instead he comes back, makes 'friends' with his would-be-isn't-now interest to 'look good' to Aoi in hopes of getting in with Aoi. He had no interest in saving Sakura. He wanted to get a life he threw away, but had no way of doing so other than destroying himself.
@@demod2080 Wedding Aoi would have changed nothing except it would have been their child being violated by worms.
Also I find the idea that it isn't someone's business to stop the suffering of a child simply because she isn't theirs reprehensible.
@@jonboulet1614 if this was a normal problem, he could have involved the authorities. I agree it's a bad deal. But the fact he was canonically a bum bothers me that he still tried to meddle. What was he going to do to provide for these girls after Tokiomi was gone?
Yeah, i found it weird because the whole Kariya's story and background was told by his mouth, except for some basic concept.
And although i had no idea he was self pity and considered himself a "good guy"
All i feel about his character is "Pathetic"
Damn Tsiah my man, i saw you were roasting the dude and suddenly, your cooking show disappeared and replaced by this, what happened?
He sacrificed himself to protect a little girl that's noble not pathetic.
look how they massacred my boy