Probably better to have sold them all in December. Less manual labour and costs involved in finishing them for January sales. You might have got yourself a wee bit more sleep Cammy! Love your videos explaining sheep farming. I’m in Edinburgh and interested in farming but not able to get started :(. So for now I have your videos to learn from. Well done for the amount of subs and hope to see more from you in the future.
I really enjoy learning the background of "The Sheep Game." Most kind of you to convey birthday wishes to Scott. Hope he's gotten vaccinated and had an opportunity to visit his wife. Sounds like he should be in the priority group for vaccination. I know here in the States that initially prioritized folks in nursing home/care facilities and people over 75. What a year, hope things get better soon. Thanks again for sharing your story with us Cammy.
As some one just starting into sheep farming all on rented land it's so inspiring to see someone like your self, especially after being told by so many people not to do it, it wont work, or give up why you still can. I just love farming and sheep, either way I'm loving it and your vids.
As an organic farmer I'm happy to make anything on our sheep. The profits we get here on the farm from our sheep is the manure that we collect and their great field maintenance . Composting this manure with the manure from all the other animals and bedding in the barn , is the fuel that makes everything grow so well on the farm. Thank for the great videos packed full of fun and valuable knowledge , from us here at fairway4farm in the West Kootenay , BC , Canada . Also are you available to sheer 10 sheep mid April ,ha ha don't think It's feasible with travel costs . There's got to be a couple hundred more sheep In the neighbourhood that need sheering while your around.
I really enjoyed this, I wanted to be a farmer when I left school but wasn't allowed and have always regretted it, and these videos are a great way of keeping 'in touch' with my farmer side, thank you for putting them up .This was really interesting!
Brilliant and educational video again, Cammy. Eloquently explained. I think we do tend to look at the top line when seeing sheep prices without considering the costs and labour involved. Nice touch, too, with th well deserved birthday wishes.
You probably would have come out better with selling them all in December but you tried something and I guess you could say you've paid for the education. But, there are too many variables in the market to base future decisions on this one season. Also, if you were factoring in your own labor then keeping them the extra month would eliminate your profit. It's always a gamble! Another great video, Cammy!
Hi cammy, new to the channel. Seems very interesting! Specialist store lamb finisher from Ireland here....a few questions/comments! 1) do you have the option of going direct to the factory? Might be better price? 2) I think the combi-clamp you mentioned would be a big help with drafting, the weights seemed very varied! 3) we find indoor feeding leads to a lot of lameness....have you anywhere that has dry lying, like a sheltered hilly field ? Better than any shed! 4) we find bigger ad-lib feeders make life far easier, if you go into the store lamb finishing the lamb creep feeders are too small and need to be filled too often when you are busy! Very informative video!
Happy 80th Birthday Scott!! Brilliant video, great to see the two side by side. Selling as stores is better option, your freeing up your ground, saving on feed, hay and shed costs not to mention your time and work looking after them.
No Sheep Game notification came up and I couldn't not watch it😂 hats and hoodies arrived yest, Thanks Cammy. One very happy little girl wearing her hoody
HAHAHA! Blair Witch. Thank you for the comparison and for taking one for the team as it were. Sorry, you didn't make as much but it was a lesson well learned. Thanks brother, much love from Kentucky, the other Scotland ;)
Top video! One of the best to date. Really appreciated going through some of the income/expenditure balances you've got to do. I'm pretty stingy with my likes but have given a thumbs up on this one 🏆 Graphics on sheep breeds was also a nice touch. Also I think you did the right thing in splitting the flock for pre- and post- Brexit sales. The calcs didn't account for the requirements of the Sustainable Production Grant purchases... so long term I'd guess not satisfying that would cost you more in the long run. Cheers Cammy
I would say it wasn’t worth it with all the costs factored in but having both options available every year means if the store lambs aren’t doing well or opposite, you can decide
I think you should have sold them all in December. Would be interesting to see if this happens next year. Love your vids, I'm a Yank, got to your channel after watching Sandi Brock! You rock!
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Sheep also like to go lame and die when inside and slightly pushed. Weighing up your rent on the shed vs how many extra store lambs you could generate with the equivalent rent spent on grass - so many factors!
Great interesting video as always . Yours was first then the GP last was Tom P . All farming but all different . 👍🏻👍🏻 You got out on the right side with your lambs.
Great video and well presented informative material. Good to see the variants on sale prices and farming is all about hedging your bets! Keep up the great work Cammy 👏👏👏
I noticed a few ads with this video, so hopefully you’ve earned a bit of $$ that helps with your expenses. Love your videos and learning more about you and your farming experiences.
Great video, really interesting to see the figures behind sheep farming. My thoughts would be that you can't answer this question! Like all of farming it's a risk. You're really trying to compare apples and oranges. The only way you could make a comparison is if these figures were relative all the time. That way you'd be able to make the decision to sell store or fat knowing what your net profit is going to be. Trying to decide on this experience will only bring heartache as you'll always been saying what if....! If I had to make a choice though I'd do exactly what you've done here. Spread the risk across your options, sometimes you'll win, sometimes you won't but at least you'll still be able to try again next year.
Your a good man , Cammy .That was a good shot out. It's good too have different venues to sale livestock , in case the markets go up or down . This was worth it because you achieved your goal . Thanks for the video.
I enjoyed this lesson! Learned a lot! I agree with everyone else. Doesn’t seem worth it to finish the lambs. I know how much labor it takes when keeping livestock in shed. It’s labor intensive. Keep the videos coming! So much to learn from you. Thank you!👋👍
Just like your channel name suggests, farming is a game!! Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose when it comes to the markets!! I enjoy your videos, this one was very informative and quite interesting!!!! Stay safe Cammy!!!! Best wishes from Kentucky, USA!!!
They always say first loss is least loss, but years ago I hung onto my lambs as the price was insulting. The lambs went into store condition so I brought them in on haylage and creep. They finished as heavy 50k which we are told the market does not want. Price per kilo was a bit lower but price per lamb was excellent. It turns out there is a market for quality large lambs as they proved to be popular with butchers. Not sure why you have to get a Combl clamp for the scheme you are entering but in the long run it will save a lot of physical stress. I would love to have had one. I tried to recommend one to Sandi Brock.
Absolutely didn’t pay ,but remember store lambs were making away above the average price compared to the last years So I found this year definitely didn’t pay to finish lambs , As the store was making crazy money away beyond other years, But a finished lamb here in Ireland 46kg is making in and around €135/€140 Don’t know how that compares to your Stirling prices. Great video as usual keep it going looking forward to your lambing 👍🐑🐑🐑🦙🦙🦙
Wow, by the sound of it you'd be better off shifting all of them in one go? Great video. 👍 Interesting to learn some behind the scenes stuff in terms of sales.
Another fun / educational video from your side, Cammy. In the Texel / Mules group I saw three animals with horns, from mother's side? What a lot of paperwork you have, do you also use a UBN number per farm in 🏴 as here in 🇳🇱? I also noticed that silage grass / hay is cheaper than straw for you, here it is the other way around. The price of a 41 kg lamb slightly higher than one of 45 kg, has that to do with the number? What is meant by HOGG?
Get them into the store mart. Fat lamb price is good at the moment but it can go the other way fast. The store price looks sky high against the fat price at the moment.
A most interesting video which clearly highlights the quandary that many farmers are faced with when it comes to marketing their stock. However I do think that the exercise highlights a whole number of inter-related topics for future consideration. I quite realise that the choice of the two groups was entirely random but................ 1. Why are you keeping Jacobs? Their value is so much lower compared to your other breeds come sale time, and, as I understand it they are not as naturally prolific as other traditional modern breeds. Do you have some personal reason why you have them? 2. Were those Cheviots crosses all female? If so wouldn't they have been best sold into a breeding sale rather than the store/finishing market 3. Do you think that for your purposes there is merit either way selling lambs per head in the store auction as opposed to by live weight in the finished lamb market? 4. The cash flow issue you mentioned is really important to all farming businesses but especially to small business like yours as potentially your pretty vulnerable to market swings. Personally I would have chosen to market them all as store lambs as the extra margin is really slim when you add in the costs of rented shedding, your time etc and that is assuming you had no lamb deaths! If you must sell some as store lambs I would have sold the smallest lean lambs as stores and finished the rest so long as they could be sold without becoming overfat.
Good video mate, personally I don’t think it was worth it, but at least it didn’t cost you, my old man always told me the earliest lambs off the property are the best money, we used to send lambs to the freezing works on weaning day, any that were fat or prime as they are called now, they haven’t cost a penny, to get to there, it’s the lambs from there on in, that start costing money, drench, crutching, etc, and as you know, if you’ve got live ones, you’ve got dead ones
I’m in Republic of Ireland and did the same over the last few months. I sold 42kg lambs in the mart in November for €100 and fattened what was left on ad-lib concentrates. Sold them today 48kg in abataur for €146
Happy Birthday to Mr. Scott, hope his wife is doing better. For the price difference, small amount for much more work, but since prices fluctuate for many reasons its hard to say yes or no. Guess alot depends on your time available.
Savage video Cammy. Here in Ireland all people ever talk about is the price got at the mart. Nobody ever talks about the costs going into them let alone putting a price on YOUR time. Not worth it for me it seems. Always a risk of losing a few lambs the longer you keep them too Edit: got the 500th like on the vid
Depends on your set up I guess, if ur working aswell probably not, but if ur full-time farming and have the shed space then you'd have to say yes. Great video as always, would like to see a video of the stick reader I was tempted to buy one but don't know f. All bout them
Another well made video with great content. With small flock sizes I would be selling asap to avoid losing out on the small extra margins gained if all goes well during that extra month. Nice birthday shout out.
Another great video Cammy. My best wishes to Scott! Considering time, store lambs appear to be more profitable. Could the margin have been improved, by running them through & sorting intended pens a little more deliberately before separating into store & finished. Keep them coming, Cammy! Love yr Scottish accent, pls don't change it.
Hey Cammy🤗 Great video again. I'm with selling them in December. Weighing up all the extra work you have to do cost of feed + the rent, labour, fuel, etc the small profit doesn't seem worth it but that's not to say this December or next January would be the same. Anyway was very interesting. Thanks 👍
That comes with farming and other jobs or businesses, unfortunately we don't have a Crystal ball to see what's ahead of us but you'll figure it out I'm sure .... we're all enjoying your videos keep up the good work but remember to take a rest too. 👍🤗
In Texas I know that we have quite a bit of paperwork that goes into transferring cattle, but I don't believe it's quite as extensive as what you have in Scotland. Still, I imagine we probably have our share of rec tape we have to go through before we can transport sheep here. I hope you were able to get the scales you were looking for!
Yes plenty of paper work here to keep the authorities happy, mine would be particularly admin heavy just because I have so many different places I keep sheep.
Cammy these video's keep getting better, well done, The sheep game is a numbers game so keep getting bigger and better and you will get your own farm so keep at it, As for the lambs this time probably better selling the stores but no harm in doing a bit of both, hedging your bets 😀
Thanks Thomas, think I could have been a bit quicker on getting some of the bigger lambs away in the shed and that would have helped. Gave it a try and saved a bit of grass too, glad you're enjoying the videos.
Very good video. Wasn't a mistake because you needed the information for future decision. For all the reasons listed by yourself and commentators, I don't think your profit margin was high enough to be worth it. If you are so close to losing money if two lambs died, it definitely isn't worth it. This is especially true because you didn't figure in labor or equipment deterioration or, I believe, shed rental. You probably barely made any profit at all. I think the one thing you didn't mention is unseen costs to your physical and emotional wellness. You need to sleep. You need to spend time with your family, make contacts by phone, and you need to sit at a desk and plan for the future, all of which you could have done, instead of finishing lambs for 0 profit. The cost to your health, mental and physical, have to be figured in, and it's a long game, that can't be ignored. Just some thoughts. Absolutely love the Sheep Game.
So interesting! As an aging wool shepherd in the US, I'd say, sell them early and use your energy somewhere else over the rough winter! Do any of your sheep grow a decent handspinning fleece?
Yes Cindy think that is the conclusion I came to, although every year is different and there's always improvements I could make too. Most of my sheep are crossed with a terminal sire to get a decent meat lamb so not sure their wool is that great for spinning?
You just got another subscriber, I LOVE the vids cos they remind me of my time farming, movement orders and passports are deffo a thing down here too BTW
Simple answer is it's never really worth it lol. If you could put them on barley instead of pellets with lupins to boost protein would help bring the cost down and a simple mineral mix in a trough to help growth but everything is different in the UK so barley could be super expensive or even unobtainable. We had a good year in Australia for suckers with them bringing 20 bucks less than our prime lambs with zero overheads but when there is a huge difference it definitely plays a part on having a crack at making a few extra bucks. At $200+ per head with all the extra work it doesn't take many deaths to start making you rethink your choices though...
Great video as usual. Raising any animal for market is a risk. Always at the mercy of the markets the day they go up for sale. All these extra expenses cut into your bottom line. Tough to make a living as a farmer of any kind anywhere today. Selling them last year would definitely have saved you a lot of work.
Great video. I’ve been out of sheep for a couple of years so it’s good to see the latest figures. I’d say you would have been better to sell as store lambs, it’s not worth the effort and time to bring on for a month and only make approx £10. But hindsight is amazing, and if I had it.....I’d be rich (sadly I’m definitely NOT rich) 😂
Hi Camy another great vid interesting costing . Your left with £9 a lamb , in my books it worked out your labour is your time , the rates for the shed is another number , I dont think it would justify paying a man or lass even on a big scale operation . but as a family run set up as in your case yes it works , on another note how are your ewes looking , keep up the good work
Yes the difference would have been marginal, but always room for improvement and no two years are the same. Ewes are looking well, had a nice bit of sun on their backs for a couple days.
I guess if you take into account labour and time you would have been bettter off selling them in December but it was a good exercise. Probably gonna use this video for my students to help them understand the importance of being aware of market prices and cashflows. Keep up the good work!
Yeah it was good to work out all the costings and for the hassle it was probably worth getting a few more away as stores, hope the student find it useful.
Great video. Might have been better to pick them a bit better the day you sold the stores. Let off the lighter ones and kept the bigger frame 1s for finish. Only thing I would have done differently.
Great video, very interesting especially for me and aspiring sheep farmer, also noticed you added the names of the breeds in a caption like requested in another video nice to see you take in those requests. Are fat rams getting a good price or worth selling?thanks
Thanks Nicholas it was a good request and i'm always reading comments and trying to improve. Even the way I was speaking was much clearer i thought lol. Rams and ewes are a good price too just now!
Should have sold them in december, its always a gamble on whether it will pay or not when you selling or buying. At least you didn't lose on them. How come they charged you a fee for clipping them,I thought this would be charged at the factory only and who ever brought them there either a farmer or agent would pay that. We dont pay it at the mart here in ireland only at the factory. Great video they getting better and better.
I dont think it was worth holding on to them. Loved the video 👍👏 Its interesting seeing all the different breeds of sheep. I dont think we have them in Australia but I could be wrong.
It’s always a risk. The best we can do is look at what weeks traditionally bring the best prices for certain weights and try to hit those marks. That and try to reduce input costs without sacrificing rate of gain.
Looking only at the “on the day” numbers it would be a not worth it, but it might not be a bad practice to spread the risk. If you put all your eggs in the same basket all it would take is one slip. It’s always a gamble with sales. Look at Sandy in Canada her prices have been consistently strong for the last few months, but it might tank at any moment🤷♀️. So if you. An do it spread the risk. Maybe when you can weigh the lambs and get a better idea of who’s worth more it could be more cost effective, but it looks like bringing them up to just under the finished weight so you don’t lose the extra charges might be a better bet.
If I cant finish on grass or I tend to put them away as stores maybe the early lambs will be grass and adlib meal but in terms of profit there isn't much difference when labour is factored in
Interesting comparison. You are always at the mercy of what price you get on the day and we all know how prices can vary from sale to sale. They time and money to get them from store to fat for me isn't worth it but obviously you did make slightly more.
Selling the market lambs has meant you have cash flow in January as well. It also spreads your risk if the store market is down, then saving some for market means you won't take a bath on the store lambs. Next do future contracts and when to buy or sell futures depending on whether markets are rising or falling, that should be fun 🐏
When you pay yourself, depreciation on equipment and shed costs, you should have sold them in December. It was so close that if you lost one or two you’d be at a loss.
Excellent again Cammy. You should look at it that you were 1/2 right with what you did. Some might say 1/2 wrong but i am sure you will agree even a £1 profit all helps in this day. Well done.
Yeah seem good cam I sold some fats two weeks ago and they was 90-125 if you can hold off till before spring you will be laughing, try fattening them on oats an barley mix will cost you half as much money.
The price of stores lmbs are crazy really nice one making 100£+, never been so expensive, you can't turn that money down, let those big feeder finish them, it's a number game with those boys.
What is the heaviest weight u can sell as Prime Fat lambs? I think your margin would improve if u could grow them more to counterbalance those set costs of the levy and the sheeting... what do u think? My name is Richard Cromarty. My Grandfather came from Shetland
I've watched this one twice now... It's a tough call. So many folk have great opinions. My question is can you get hold of the sales history for the last decade as a guide and balance it against the state of the economy at the time? Perhaps you could see a pattern and then plan ahead? Otherwise it's a case of doing what you've done. Perhaps buying in feed when it's at the right price. Gamble a bit based on how many are at the right weight at the right time. I look forward to seeing what you decide as there's so many variables involved. It's fascinating.
Its a tough call. Kind of depends on your housing costs and what the actual time spent with the extra labour works out too. That was also the top 49? of 70 so it might be skewing your numbers a bit. Thoroughly enjoying the videos though. Fellow sheep farmer from the Canadian prairies.
Overall i would say no not worth it for that number - time alone at 5mins a for stock check, plus 1 hr a week for feeding out bales/creep =18 hrs... @ minimum wage... =£180 - then theres machinary wear+ fuel and travel to the barn and stockwater usage. but why value your time as minimum wage... however there is a concideration - does the muck become a input on another system? - ie veggarden, fruit tree mulch or even as manure ona field... maybe then it might be worth it, plus if you had shorn them you could have also used the wool for further uses as mulch/compost.
That is an interesting comparison. Store lambs seem to be the choice this time. Why do they clip them? Could you do that yourself and save the £35? What is that other fee/levy? A marketing fee?
Even if they never made much more money in January - they kept you busy over the winter and I no you enjoy being kept busy so worth it from that point of view suppose ☺️ Interesting Vlog - I’m always learning x
10/10 for vlog I really enjoy this informative type of vlog, you are both fun and educational. (No joke) Ok, I have a few questions. I may have missed you saying, so I apologise if I've missed it. How old are your lambs? Are they older than Sandi Brock's ? They look like a few months old. Also, why do you castrate the males? Again, it's because I mainly know what Sandi Brock does and just wondering what the reasoning is behind it. And not a question... But. I would love to listen to/watch a podcast with Sandi and Mark. That would be interesting given the differences between the two farming styles and countries and the vary in markets.
Thanks Sammy, so.... These lambs would be 9 months old when they were sold. Sandi will sell most of hers younger for a couple reasons. She breeds with bigger sheep on a system which means the animals are never effected by adverse weather or lack of grass so her stock has a great life. Hers get fed from a younger age and therefore finish faster. I castrate the males because they run alongside females. Even if u separate the male lambs u then have problems with fighting and keeping them in a field if they even get a wiff of a female nearby lol. Castration is common practice here. I'd love to do a podcast with Sandi and Mark and i'm sure we will sometime. =D
Cammy, without a crystal ball, it is hard to know which way to go! You took a gamble and you just about broke even. Breaking even is better than going into the negative! Taking care of those lambs kept you busy for the last few months. Imagine how much more sleep you might have had if you sold them all back then! Haha! Live and learn, eh?
No definitely not 🤔 sell sell sell for store lambs lol. When you see how much work and effort goes into producing these lambs it makes you realise how lucky we are in Scotland to have folk like yourself. The supermarkets want to start selling more scotch lamb not importing it from the likes of New Zealand its total madness! Plus for me the the slaughter method is way more humane here.
I would say that it wasn’t worth holding and finishing those lambs. Bayou have to let us know if that is correct because I have never even touched a lamb. I learn so much here Cammie. I’ve never tasted lamb either. Never saw it in the grocery store. Don’t kick me out Cammie. It’s not my fault.!
The problem is your trailers where full both times. So if you had taken more on either trip yoi would have lost some money with a haulier. Apart from that I would say no, it wasn't worth it. Really interesting experiment though. Top video as always Cammy.
My family love lamb and we have order 2 lambs for our freezer getting delivery in August, the cost for that including butchering and wrapping is 400. Canadian dollars each so 800. Bucks for 2 lambs what do you think of that price?
COVID destroyed every average person's livelihood. Here in California we had a huge number of people who were suddenly put out of work. Losing money on lambs is part of that. We had turkey farmers all over the US who had to cut up prepared turkeys because nobody could have their traditional Thanksgiving dinners. I'm so glad that the pandemic is now over.
I think you would be better off selling stores once grass quality starts to go, especially as you are a grass only "farm". Buying extra food for sheep is a risky gamble, different if you had your own spare shed and home produced straw and grain or grew root crops as part of a rotation. Prices can go up as well as down and your straw and haylage prices in your costings seem on the low side especially with straw prices so high this year, down this way anyway!,
Also to factor in is how the market is. As you know the prices can change quickly in the factory which will effect the auction prices. Personally there's not a lot in it.
Good video cammy as always,I suppose it gives you 2 options,its a pretty intense finishing diet,would they be able to adjust to an ad lib meal diet in a 4wk turn around? Were they getting a pinch of meal outdoors? Keep up the good work..cheers from Ireland 🇮🇪 👍 👏
Probably better to have sold them all in December. Less manual labour and costs involved in finishing them for January sales. You might have got yourself a wee bit more sleep Cammy!
Love your videos explaining sheep farming. I’m in Edinburgh and interested in farming but not able to get started :(. So for now I have your videos to learn from. Well done for the amount of subs and hope to see more from you in the future.
Does seem like that, all years are different too. All the best for getting into farming in the future.
I really enjoy learning the background of "The Sheep Game." Most kind of you to convey birthday wishes to Scott. Hope he's gotten vaccinated and had an opportunity to visit his wife. Sounds like he should be in the priority group for vaccination. I know here in the States that initially prioritized folks in nursing home/care facilities and people over 75. What a year, hope things get better soon. Thanks again for sharing your story with us Cammy.
Thanks Michael. Yes he and his wife have been vaccinated so hopefully he can get in to see her again soon. Thanks for the kind comment!
As some one just starting into sheep farming all on rented land it's so inspiring to see someone like your self, especially after being told by so many people not to do it, it wont work, or give up why you still can. I just love farming and sheep, either way I'm loving it and your vids.
Thanks Kevin, farming is a way of life and you have to love it. Glad you're enjoying the videos!
As an organic farmer I'm happy to make anything on our sheep. The profits we get here on the farm from our sheep is the manure that we collect and their great field maintenance . Composting this manure with the manure from all the other animals and bedding in the barn , is the fuel that makes everything grow so well on the farm. Thank for the great videos packed full of fun and valuable knowledge , from us here at fairway4farm in the West Kootenay , BC , Canada . Also are you available to sheer 10 sheep mid April ,ha ha don't think It's feasible with travel costs . There's got to be a couple hundred more sheep In the neighbourhood that need sheering while your around.
I really enjoyed this, I wanted to be a farmer when I left school but wasn't allowed and have always regretted it, and these videos are a great way of keeping 'in touch' with my farmer side, thank you for putting them up .This was really interesting!
Thanks Carol, glad you're enjoying the videos!
Brilliant and educational video again, Cammy. Eloquently explained. I think we do tend to look at the top line when seeing sheep prices without considering the costs and labour involved. Nice touch, too, with th well deserved birthday wishes.
Wishing i'd held on to them another couple months!!
You probably would have come out better with selling them all in December but you tried something and I guess you could say you've paid for the education. But, there are too many variables in the market to base future decisions on this one season.
Also, if you were factoring in your own labor then keeping them the extra month would eliminate your profit. It's always a gamble!
Another great video, Cammy!
Hi cammy, new to the channel. Seems very interesting! Specialist store lamb finisher from Ireland here....a few questions/comments!
1) do you have the option of going direct to the factory? Might be better price?
2) I think the combi-clamp you mentioned would be a big help with drafting, the weights seemed very varied!
3) we find indoor feeding leads to a lot of lameness....have you anywhere that has dry lying, like a sheltered hilly field ? Better than any shed!
4) we find bigger ad-lib feeders make life far easier, if you go into the store lamb finishing the lamb creep feeders are too small and need to be filled too often when you are busy!
Very informative video!
Oh, Cammy, I so look forward to the day when you and Lizzie have your own land on which to graze your lambs. 🙏🌹🙏👍👍🙌😃
May it happen soon!
Happy 80th Birthday Scott!!
Brilliant video, great to see the two side by side. Selling as stores is better option, your freeing up your ground, saving on feed, hay and shed costs not to mention your time and work looking after them.
Thanks Mary Catherine Very kind. I hope you were up late lambing and not just burning the candle at both ends! =D
No Sheep Game notification came up and I couldn't not watch it😂 hats and hoodies arrived yest, Thanks Cammy. One very happy little girl wearing her hoody
HAHAHA! Blair Witch. Thank you for the comparison and for taking one for the team as it were. Sorry, you didn't make as much but it was a lesson well learned. Thanks brother, much love from Kentucky, the other Scotland ;)
Top video! One of the best to date. Really appreciated going through some of the income/expenditure balances you've got to do. I'm pretty stingy with my likes but have given a thumbs up on this one 🏆 Graphics on sheep breeds was also a nice touch. Also I think you did the right thing in splitting the flock for pre- and post- Brexit sales. The calcs didn't account for the requirements of the Sustainable Production Grant purchases... so long term I'd guess not satisfying that would cost you more in the long run.
Cheers Cammy
Glad you enjoyed the video, sitting down and working out the costs is something we often avoid but it is interesting to see if its really worth it.
Cracking vid again. Quality of the editing and the video are improving week on week cammy. Keep up the good work buddy
Thanks Will. The hours that go into this are almost daft but I enjoy the end product =D
I would say it wasn’t worth it with all the costs factored in but having both options available every year means if the store lambs aren’t doing well or opposite, you can decide
That's a good point Scott. If things were bad in the store ring i'd definitely hold onto them.
I think you should have sold them all in December. Would be interesting to see if this happens next year. Love your vids, I'm a Yank, got to your channel after watching Sandi Brock! You rock!
Thanks Melanie!!! Really kind!
@@TheSheepGame My question is whether you'd have been paying rent on the barn/shed regardless. (Is it monthly or a yearly lease situation?)
@@thepeanutgallery1699 i wouldn’t have paid for barn if not using so it is an extra cost 😅
Hindsight is a beautiful thing. Sheep also like to go lame and die when inside and slightly pushed.
Weighing up your rent on the shed vs how many extra store lambs you could generate with the equivalent rent spent on grass - so many factors!
Great interesting video as always . Yours was first then the GP last was Tom P . All farming but all different . 👍🏻👍🏻 You got out on the right side with your lambs.
I’m Starting out sheep farming this year, a lot to learn. Great vids
Great video and well presented informative material. Good to see the variants on sale prices and farming is all about hedging your bets! Keep up the great work Cammy 👏👏👏
Thanks, glad you enjoyed! 👍
I noticed a few ads with this video, so hopefully you’ve earned a bit of $$ that helps with your expenses. Love your videos and learning more about you and your farming experiences.
Such kindness. Always positive. As you might say, Cammy 'what a man you are'!
Great video, really interesting to see the figures behind sheep farming. My thoughts would be that you can't answer this question! Like all of farming it's a risk. You're really trying to compare apples and oranges. The only way you could make a comparison is if these figures were relative all the time. That way you'd be able to make the decision to sell store or fat knowing what your net profit is going to be. Trying to decide on this experience will only bring heartache as you'll always been saying what if....! If I had to make a choice though I'd do exactly what you've done here. Spread the risk across your options, sometimes you'll win, sometimes you won't but at least you'll still be able to try again next year.
Happy Birthday Scott! Hope it was great! Another great video!
Very kind!
Your a good man , Cammy .That was a good shot out.
It's good too have different venues to sale livestock , in case the markets go up or down . This was worth it because you achieved your goal . Thanks for the video.
Thanks Ronald!
I enjoyed this lesson! Learned a lot! I agree with everyone else. Doesn’t seem worth it to finish the lambs. I know how much labor it takes when keeping livestock in shed. It’s labor intensive. Keep the videos coming! So much to learn from you. Thank you!👋👍
Thank you. Based on these prices I think you are right and selling them all store would have been best.
The Hoof GP sent me over. Glad he did. Very interesting.
Thanks so much. He's been a big help to me.
Just like your channel name suggests, farming is a game!! Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose when it comes to the markets!!
I enjoy your videos, this one was very informative and quite interesting!!!!
Stay safe Cammy!!!! Best wishes from Kentucky, USA!!!
Thanks Cindy. Appreciate the kind comment!
Really enjoy all of your videos. Thanks for all your hard work!
Glad you're enjoying the channel Aiessa
They always say first loss is least loss, but years ago I hung onto my lambs as the price was insulting. The lambs went into store condition so I brought them in on haylage and creep. They finished as heavy 50k which we are told the market does not want. Price per kilo was a bit lower but price per lamb was excellent. It turns out there is a market for quality large lambs as they proved to be popular with butchers.
Not sure why you have to get a Combl clamp for the scheme you are entering but in the long run it will save a lot of physical stress. I would love to have had one. I tried to recommend one to Sandi Brock.
Absolutely didn’t pay ,but remember store lambs were making away above the average price compared to the last years
So I found this year definitely didn’t pay to finish lambs ,
As the store was making crazy money away beyond other years,
But a finished lamb here in Ireland 46kg is making in and around €135/€140
Don’t know how that compares to your Stirling prices.
Great video as usual keep it going looking forward to your lambing 👍🐑🐑🐑🦙🦙🦙
Thanks Aidan, I guess it varies year on year with how the trade is, sounds like you are getting a good trade in Ireland too!
Wow, by the sound of it you'd be better off shifting all of them in one go? Great video. 👍 Interesting to learn some behind the scenes stuff in terms of sales.
I hope everything is good with you. Have not seen you in a while...
All good thanks, back on it now!👍
Another fun / educational video from your side, Cammy. In the Texel / Mules group I saw three animals with horns, from mother's side? What a lot of paperwork you have, do you also use a UBN number per farm in 🏴 as here in 🇳🇱? I also noticed that silage grass / hay is cheaper than straw for you, here it is the other way around. The price of a 41 kg lamb slightly higher than one of 45 kg, has that to do with the number? What is meant by HOGG?
Get them into the store mart. Fat lamb price is good at the moment but it can go the other way fast. The store price looks sky high against the fat price at the moment.
Cammy you should purchase a shepherds mate handling unit. No more pulling or dragging sort them buy weight no hassle
A most interesting video which clearly highlights the quandary that many farmers are faced with when it comes to marketing their stock. However I do think that the exercise highlights a whole number of inter-related topics for future consideration. I quite realise that the choice of the two groups was entirely random but................
1. Why are you keeping Jacobs? Their value is so much lower compared to your other breeds come sale time, and, as I understand it they are not as naturally prolific as other traditional modern breeds. Do you have some personal reason why you have them?
2. Were those Cheviots crosses all female? If so wouldn't they have been best sold into a breeding sale rather than the store/finishing market
3. Do you think that for your purposes there is merit either way selling lambs per head in the store auction as opposed to by live weight in the finished lamb market?
4. The cash flow issue you mentioned is really important to all farming businesses but especially to small business like yours as potentially your pretty vulnerable to market swings.
Personally I would have chosen to market them all as store lambs as the extra margin is really slim when you add in the costs of rented shedding, your time etc and that is assuming you had no lamb deaths! If you must sell some as store lambs I would have sold the smallest lean lambs as stores and finished the rest so long as they could be sold without becoming overfat.
Good video mate, personally I don’t think it was worth it, but at least it didn’t cost you, my old man always told me the earliest lambs off the property are the best money, we used to send lambs to the freezing works on weaning day, any that were fat or prime as they are called now, they haven’t cost a penny, to get to there, it’s the lambs from there on in, that start costing money, drench, crutching, etc, and as you know, if you’ve got live ones, you’ve got dead ones
Straight off the ewe is a great time to send lambs when they have cost you so little to get them to that point! 👍
Fascinating! You really weren't kidding when you said spilling half a bottle of Clik Extra keeps you from profit!
Haha it's tight margins!
I’m in Republic of Ireland and did the same over the last few months. I sold 42kg lambs in the mart in November for €100 and fattened what was left on ad-lib concentrates. Sold them today 48kg in abataur for €146
Happy Birthday to Mr. Scott, hope his wife is doing better. For the price difference, small amount for much more work, but since prices fluctuate for many reasons its hard to say yes or no. Guess alot depends on your time available.
Thanks Lesa for the kind comment. You are right there are so many variables. It keeps us on our toes =D
Savage video Cammy. Here in Ireland all people ever talk about is the price got at the mart. Nobody ever talks about the costs going into them let alone putting a price on YOUR time.
Not worth it for me it seems. Always a risk of losing a few lambs the longer you keep them too
Edit: got the 500th like on the vid
Thanks Eamon, is always interesting to sit down and work out the costs and see if it works out. 👍 for the 500th like!
That was amazing info Cammy! If the market stays strong for lambs, it looks like we should send them for others to finish🤷🏻♀️
I think you could be right. i just don't have the grass for them.
Depends on your set up I guess, if ur working aswell probably not, but if ur full-time farming and have the shed space then you'd have to say yes. Great video as always, would like to see a video of the stick reader I was tempted to buy one but don't know f. All bout them
Happy Birthday, Scott! 🥳🎉
Great video
You never mentioned water costs for the fat lambs ( minimal I'm guessing)
Farming is a gamble !
Aye would be minimal but all the little costs do eventually add up.
Another well made video with great content. With small flock sizes I would be selling asap to avoid losing out on the small extra margins gained if all goes well during that extra month. Nice birthday shout out.
Thanks George!
Another great video Cammy. My best wishes to Scott! Considering time, store lambs appear to be more profitable. Could the margin have been improved, by running them through & sorting intended pens a little more deliberately before separating into store & finished. Keep them coming, Cammy! Love yr Scottish accent, pls don't change it.
Hi Karen, No doubt things could have been done better but I thought it was a reasonably fair way of comparing things. Thanks for the kind comment. =D
Good video cammie, apart from a few ealy lambs we sell all our lambs as stores now as don't really have the quality grass to finish later in the year.
Sounds a good system John and working with the land that you have.
Hey Cammy🤗 Great video again. I'm with selling them in December. Weighing up all the extra work you have to do cost of feed + the rent, labour, fuel, etc the small profit doesn't seem worth it but that's not to say this December or next January would be the same. Anyway was very interesting. Thanks 👍
Thanks Anneta, I've gave myself a lot to think about!
That comes with farming and other jobs or businesses, unfortunately we don't have a Crystal ball to see what's ahead of us but you'll figure it out I'm sure .... we're all enjoying your videos keep up the good work but remember to take a rest too. 👍🤗
In Texas I know that we have quite a bit of paperwork that goes into transferring cattle, but I don't believe it's quite as extensive as what you have in Scotland. Still, I imagine we probably have our share of rec tape we have to go through before we can transport sheep here. I hope you were able to get the scales you were looking for!
Yes plenty of paper work here to keep the authorities happy, mine would be particularly admin heavy just because I have so many different places I keep sheep.
I loved this video! It was fascinating and very clear.
Thanks, glad you found it interesting 👍
This farming life looking for farmers in Scotland to follow around, you got loads of spare time and natural around a camera! 😂
Cammy these video's keep getting better, well done, The sheep game is a numbers game so keep getting bigger and better and you will get your own farm so keep at it,
As for the lambs this time probably better selling the stores but no harm in doing a bit of both, hedging your bets 😀
Thanks Thomas, think I could have been a bit quicker on getting some of the bigger lambs away in the shed and that would have helped. Gave it a try and saved a bit of grass too, glad you're enjoying the videos.
Very good video. Wasn't a mistake because you needed the information for future decision. For all the reasons listed by yourself and commentators, I don't think your profit margin was high enough to be worth it. If you are so close to losing money if two lambs died, it definitely isn't worth it.
This is especially true because you didn't figure in labor or equipment deterioration or, I believe, shed rental. You probably barely made any profit at all. I think the one thing you didn't mention is unseen costs to your physical and emotional wellness. You need to sleep. You need to spend time with your family, make contacts by phone, and you need to sit at a desk and plan for the future, all of which you could have done, instead of finishing lambs for 0 profit. The cost to your health, mental and physical, have to be figured in, and it's a long game, that can't be ignored. Just some thoughts.
Absolutely love the Sheep Game.
So interesting! As an aging wool shepherd in the US, I'd say, sell them early and use your energy somewhere else over the rough winter! Do any of your sheep grow a decent handspinning fleece?
Yes Cindy think that is the conclusion I came to, although every year is different and there's always improvements I could make too. Most of my sheep are crossed with a terminal sire to get a decent meat lamb so not sure their wool is that great for spinning?
You just got another subscriber, I LOVE the vids cos they remind me of my time farming, movement orders and passports are deffo a thing down here too BTW
Thanks James, hope you enjoy the channel.
Simple answer is it's never really worth it lol. If you could put them on barley instead of pellets with lupins to boost protein would help bring the cost down and a simple mineral mix in a trough to help growth but everything is different in the UK so barley could be super expensive or even unobtainable.
We had a good year in Australia for suckers with them bringing 20 bucks less than our prime lambs with zero overheads but when there is a huge difference it definitely plays a part on having a crack at making a few extra bucks.
At $200+ per head with all the extra work it doesn't take many deaths to start making you rethink your choices though...
Great video as usual. Raising any animal for market is a risk. Always at the mercy of the markets the day they go up for sale. All these extra expenses cut into your bottom line. Tough to make a living as a farmer of any kind anywhere today. Selling them last year would definitely have saved you a lot of work.
I agree Alice!
Great video. I’ve been out of sheep for a couple of years so it’s good to see the latest figures. I’d say you would have been better to sell as store lambs, it’s not worth the effort and time to bring on for a month and only make approx £10. But hindsight is amazing, and if I had it.....I’d be rich (sadly I’m definitely NOT rich) 😂
Wouldn't we all lol. Thanks for the comment.
Hi Camy another great vid interesting costing . Your left with £9 a lamb , in my books it worked out your labour is your time , the rates for the shed is another number , I dont think it would justify paying a man or lass even on a big scale operation . but as a family run set up as in your case yes it works , on another note how are your ewes looking , keep up the good work
Yes the difference would have been marginal, but always room for improvement and no two years are the same. Ewes are looking well, had a nice bit of sun on their backs for a couple days.
I guess if you take into account labour and time you would have been bettter off selling them in December but it was a good exercise. Probably gonna use this video for my students to help them understand the importance of being aware of market prices and cashflows. Keep up the good work!
Yeah it was good to work out all the costings and for the hassle it was probably worth getting a few more away as stores, hope the student find it useful.
Great video. Might have been better to pick them a bit better the day you sold the stores. Let off the lighter ones and kept the bigger frame 1s for finish. Only thing I would have done differently.
Yes that would probably have been a good idea and more effective in the long run.
Great video, very interesting especially for me and aspiring sheep farmer, also noticed you added the names of the breeds in a caption like requested in another video nice to see you take in those requests. Are fat rams getting a good price or worth selling?thanks
Thanks Nicholas it was a good request and i'm always reading comments and trying to improve. Even the way I was speaking was much clearer i thought lol. Rams and ewes are a good price too just now!
Nice voiceover :)
Very informative!
Thanks!
Should have sold them in december, its always a gamble on whether it will pay or not when you selling or buying. At least you didn't lose on them. How come they charged you a fee for clipping them,I thought this would be charged at the factory only and who ever brought them there either a farmer or agent would pay that. We dont pay it at the mart here in ireland only at the factory. Great video they getting better and better.
I dont think it was worth holding on to them. Loved the video 👍👏 Its interesting seeing all the different breeds of sheep. I dont think we have them in Australia but I could be wrong.
Thanks Sarah, I'm going to try and explain breeds better as we have so many here!
It’s always a risk. The best we can do is look at what weeks traditionally bring the best prices for certain weights and try to hit those marks. That and try to reduce input costs without sacrificing rate of gain.
Great comment and of course you are right.
Looking only at the “on the day” numbers it would be a not worth it, but it might not be a bad practice to spread the risk. If you put all your eggs in the same basket all it would take is one slip. It’s always a gamble with sales. Look at Sandy in Canada her prices have been consistently strong for the last few months, but it might tank at any moment🤷♀️. So if you. An do it spread the risk. Maybe when you can weigh the lambs and get a better idea of who’s worth more it could be more cost effective, but it looks like bringing them up to just under the finished weight so you don’t lose the extra charges might be a better bet.
If I cant finish on grass or I tend to put them away as stores maybe the early lambs will be grass and adlib meal but in terms of profit there isn't much difference when labour is factored in
Interesting comparison. You are always at the mercy of what price you get on the day and we all know how prices can vary from sale to sale. They time and money to get them from store to fat for me isn't worth it but obviously you did make slightly more.
I think i'm leaning towards the 'not worth it' side.
Selling the market lambs has meant you have cash flow in January as well. It also spreads your risk if the store market is down, then saving some for market means you won't take a bath on the store lambs.
Next do future contracts and when to buy or sell futures depending on whether markets are rising or falling, that should be fun 🐏
Thanks Carolyn! It's all a bit of a gamble but in both cases I knew the trade was strong so it was interesting to see how it compared.
Not watched yet but already know it’s gonna be a good one
Appreciate the support Ryan!
@@TheSheepGame if you get the chance u should come to islay
When you pay yourself, depreciation on equipment and shed costs, you should have sold them in December. It was so close that if you lost one or two you’d be at a loss.
Another good point that's not been made yet! 2 dead lambs and u are basically at a loss.
How do cammy. I sell all mine store. Save grass for the ewes so they can do better the next year or even keep a few more ewes
Excellent again Cammy. You should look at it that you were 1/2 right with what you did. Some might say 1/2 wrong but i am sure you will agree even a £1 profit all helps in this day. Well done.
Aye it’s a good one because u can argue the point either way.
REALLY enjoying your videos.
Thanks!
Yeah seem good cam I sold some fats two weeks ago and they was 90-125 if you can hold off till before spring you will be laughing, try fattening them on oats an barley mix will cost you half as much money.
The price of stores lmbs are crazy really nice one making 100£+, never been so expensive, you can't turn that money down, let those big feeder finish them, it's a number game with those boys.
Another cracking video, I’m not sure what u would of been better doing but either are worth it
Thanks Craig
What is the heaviest weight u can sell as Prime Fat lambs? I think your margin would improve if u could grow them more to counterbalance those set costs of the levy and the sheeting... what do u think? My name is Richard Cromarty. My Grandfather came from Shetland
I've watched this one twice now... It's a tough call. So many folk have great opinions. My question is can you get hold of the sales history for the last decade as a guide and balance it against the state of the economy at the time? Perhaps you could see a pattern and then plan ahead?
Otherwise it's a case of doing what you've done. Perhaps buying in feed when it's at the right price. Gamble a bit based on how many are at the right weight at the right time. I look forward to seeing what you decide as there's so many variables involved. It's fascinating.
Definitely plenty of variables, and every year can be so different too, I have thought of a few ways I could do it better if I were to do it again.
@@TheSheepGame That video I'd be very interested in!
Its a tough call. Kind of depends on your housing costs and what the actual time spent with the extra labour works out too. That was also the top 49? of 70 so it might be skewing your numbers a bit. Thoroughly enjoying the videos though. Fellow sheep farmer from the Canadian prairies.
Another great point Jonathon. That was the best 49 so that would dent the return a bit more.! Thanks.
Overall i would say no not worth it for that number - time alone at 5mins a for stock check, plus 1 hr a week for feeding out bales/creep =18 hrs... @ minimum wage... =£180 - then theres machinary wear+ fuel and travel to the barn and stockwater usage. but why value your time as minimum wage... however there is a concideration - does the muck become a input on another system? - ie veggarden, fruit tree mulch or even as manure ona field... maybe then it might be worth it, plus if you had shorn them you could have also used the wool for further uses as mulch/compost.
Great video how much did it cost you for the shed
That is an interesting comparison. Store lambs seem to be the choice this time. Why do they clip them? Could you do that yourself and save the £35? What is that other fee/levy? A marketing fee?
Even if they never made much more money in January - they kept you busy over the winter and I no you enjoy being kept busy so worth it from that point of view suppose ☺️ Interesting Vlog - I’m always learning x
Aye gave me something to do 😂, we're always learning in this industry and I've already thought of a few ways I could do it better 😊
10/10 for vlog I really enjoy this informative type of vlog, you are both fun and educational. (No joke)
Ok, I have a few questions. I may have missed you saying, so I apologise if I've missed it. How old are your lambs? Are they older than Sandi Brock's ? They look like a few months old.
Also, why do you castrate the males? Again, it's because I mainly know what Sandi Brock does and just wondering what the reasoning is behind it.
And not a question... But. I would love to listen to/watch a podcast with Sandi and Mark. That would be interesting given the differences between the two farming styles and countries and the vary in markets.
Thanks Sammy, so....
These lambs would be 9 months old when they were sold. Sandi will sell most of hers younger for a couple reasons. She breeds with bigger sheep on a system which means the animals are never effected by adverse weather or lack of grass so her stock has a great life. Hers get fed from a younger age and therefore finish faster.
I castrate the males because they run alongside females. Even if u separate the male lambs u then have problems with fighting and keeping them in a field if they even get a wiff of a female nearby lol. Castration is common practice here.
I'd love to do a podcast with Sandi and Mark and i'm sure we will sometime. =D
Cammy, without a crystal ball, it is hard to know which way to go! You took a gamble and you just about broke even. Breaking even is better than going into the negative! Taking care of those lambs kept you busy for the last few months. Imagine how much more sleep you might have had if you sold them all back then! Haha! Live and learn, eh?
Great video cammy I don t know why they put a thumbs down on your videos your so interesting
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
No definitely not 🤔 sell sell sell for store lambs lol. When you see how much work and effort goes into producing these lambs it makes you realise how lucky we are in Scotland to have folk like yourself. The supermarkets want to start selling more scotch lamb not importing it from the likes of New Zealand its total madness! Plus for me the the slaughter method is way more humane here.
Very interesting video as always ..look out behind you😲 Blair witch 🤣🤣
I would say that it wasn’t worth holding and finishing those lambs. Bayou have to let us know if that is correct because I have never even touched a lamb. I learn so much here Cammie. I’ve never tasted lamb either. Never saw it in the grocery store. Don’t kick me out Cammie. It’s not my fault.!
I think it was worth keeping them
The problem is your trailers where full both times. So if you had taken more on either trip yoi would have lost some money with a haulier.
Apart from that I would say no, it wasn't worth it. Really interesting experiment though. Top video as always Cammy.
Was interesting to sit down and work out the maths with it all, and see if we are winning or not, thanks for watching Grant.
My family love lamb and we have order 2 lambs for our freezer getting delivery in August, the cost for that including butchering and wrapping is 400. Canadian dollars each so 800. Bucks for 2 lambs what do you think of that price?
Holy sheep! I've got my Scottish ears on! I understood EVERYTHING! Love the black and white sheep. Jacob, right?
Thanks Anne! Voiceover is great because I can really concentrate on how i'm speaking and try and be clear for you guys!
COVID destroyed every average person's livelihood. Here in California we had a huge number of people who were suddenly put out of work. Losing money on lambs is part of that. We had turkey farmers all over the US who had to cut up prepared turkeys because nobody could have their traditional Thanksgiving dinners. I'm so glad that the pandemic is now over.
I would say it was as it spaces out ure money when needed with toughly the same costing
I think you would be better off selling stores once grass quality starts to go, especially as you are a grass only "farm". Buying extra food for sheep is a risky gamble, different if you had your own spare shed and home produced straw and grain or grew root crops as part of a rotation. Prices can go up as well as down and your straw and haylage prices in your costings seem on the low side especially with straw prices so high this year, down this way anyway!,
A very wise view you have on it, such variations year on year with costs and prices at market.
Also to factor in is how the market is.
As you know the prices can change quickly in the factory which will effect the auction prices.
Personally there's not a lot in it.
Yes Paul not always easy to read how it will go at market!
Good video cammy as always,I suppose it gives you 2 options,its a pretty intense finishing diet,would they be able to adjust to an ad lib meal diet in a 4wk turn around? Were they getting a pinch of meal outdoors? Keep up the good work..cheers from Ireland 🇮🇪 👍 👏