Here is a quote from Sun Tzu in his book "The Art of War," ch. "On the March" (written roughly 500 b.c.) regarding Leadership: "A general who punishes his troops before he has won them over, will never be accepted by them and they will be useless to him. If he has already won them over but does not punish them when appropriate, they will still be useless. So you must bring your troops together with humane treatment, and bind them with discipline - this is the path to invincibility. Enact consistency in orders and instruction and the men will be loyal to you; if there is no consistency, they will not."
They (my two paratrooper uncles) were paid twice as much as other soldiers, were expected to fight independently, to go beyond standards of average G.I.s (Poor expectations, leading to poor outcomes!)
Wars are won by hard men with clear expectations. Sun Tzu also cut the head off of the emperor's concubine in a demonstration on how to train and instill a commander's control over a military organization.
You can see what the Army thought of Sink by his career. He was the only regimental commander in the 101st to Command his regiment throughout the war. After the war, while promoted, he didn't get command of an active-duty division; he got reserve divisions.
The army seemed to have actually thought highly of him. First, he actually requested to stay with the 506th throughout the war and could have easily been promoted past colonel if he wanted to. After the war he held numerous important posts such as Assistant commander of the 101st airborne and 11th airborne, and the 44th Infantry and 7th Armored who were actually active duty divisions when he was the commander. Most importantly, he was also commander of the XVIII Airborne Corps, one of the most prestigious commands in the army. Furthermore he was a chief advisor to the joint airborne troop board, where he created modern U.S. army airborne and air assault doctrine
the reason others were moved around were that they added TWO new airborne divisions but needed to keep regiments intact, he chose to stay rather than be promoted and he had the clout and good reasons for remaining with the 101st as well as 506th
@@kurtdanielson993same for the second and first…he didn’t earn them during the war as he remained with the unit fighting constantly so hadn’t had to opportunity yet to be promoted yet earned it three times later
It’s occurred to me that Sink’s conduct of inflicting Captain Sobel on the men of Easy Company, having the hated Captain do all the dirty work then eventually removing Sobel had a Machiavellian flavour. Colonel Sink was able to assert his authority and present himself as a saviour even though Sobel’s harshness would have met with Sink’s approval at virtually all material times.
I wonder if Sobel had been an excellent field officer if Sink would have done what he did to Sobel. The sergeants' complaints of Sobel made Sink aware that Sobel's ineptitude might discredit Sink as the war progressed. Sobel was a valuable tool in training Easy but would have to be put aside for someone more competent. Sobel did make the jump into Normandy and nothing can be said against his commitment and courage of going into battle and performing well. That should have been shown also in B of B or at least mentioned.
@@brianjungen4059 Tough and hard are good. Setting very high standards is good. Group punishment has it place. But the pettiness and lying goes a little to far, especially when you can't live up to your own standards.
Given that there were 14 companies in the 506th PIR, that theory doesn't make a lot of sense unless it can be shown that was Sink's general MO for selecting company COs. Why would Sink pull that trick only on E Company?
Sink sounds very similar to Sobel. Ater hearing this it makes more sense that Sobel was selected as a Captain in the 506th. Also, I cant even begin to imagine how pissed off Col. Sink was when the NCO’s refused to serve under Captain Sobel.
Captain Dye did a great job when he played Sink having his 'little talk' with the disobedient sergeants. UNFORTUNATELY he was forced to spare their lives
I’ve seen it written that Colonel sink turned down promotion after promotion in order to stay the regimental commander at the 506th. It seems to me that this can be looked at under two lights. The first, that he was dedicated to this unit that he had created and did not want to entrust it to anybody else. However as a professional officer with 28 years of military service; part of me wonders if he was afraid to leave the comfort of the bubble that he had created. If you never leave the area that is eliminated by the unit’s light, he would never have had to venture into the dark! Part of my assessment….well, it seems to me that he was afraid adventuring into the dark and insulated himself with “his regiment”. I may be wrong…. maybe. But my assessment comes from the fact that 24 of my 28 years was in airborne units; 14 were in special forces units, 10 were in other Special Operations units; it never once occurred to me to hide out in a unit and not progress.
It can also be seen under a third light: As he was in competition for higher command with other Regimental commanders, he may not have been chosen. In my years of service I have heard the words “I could’ve moved up but declined the offer” several times in people who truly couldn’t perform, or not favoured.
It is always a good idea to remember that the Army was different in the 1930s and 1940s than it is today. Sink went from being a CPT in January 1941 (one of the first officers to join and activate the 501s Airborne), to being a Colonel in 22 months later. In those 22 months he went from being a company commander in the 501st to activating a battalion in the 503rd, the commanding the 503rd for a short period, to then organizing and commanding the 506th. In April 1945, Colonel Sink was "promoted" to Assistant Division Commander of the 101st. I think the likely reason for turning down the promotions had more to do with professional aspirations than anything else. He probably wanted the assistant division commander position, as it would set him up for general officer had the war continued. As it was, he eventually retired from the Army as a Lieutenant General, so he seems to have played his professional cards right.
@@wojciechgrodnicki6302 I knew a Marine General who demonstrated that to be a good General you had balance total commitment to the mission and the people with the political skill to sell doing the right thing to the chain of command. He did it well (as did Army Generals I worked with). My observation: not easy but possible; respect to those that do it.
It was certainly a sobering video. It’s also enlightening to learn the opinions of a variety of characters from Private David Webster to Winters and Speirs. Thank you for providing so many anecdotes from a variety of sources!
In his memoir, Winters never overtly criticizes Sink but he does include some stories in which the colonel made arrogant choices that others had to make good on. In addition to drumming out the late paratroopers and the Haguenau patrols, Winters wrote about how Sink once bet the regiment's payroll on a basketball game between the paratroopers and the Army Air Corps team while in England. Then there was the insane march he ordered 2nd Battalion to make from Toccoa to Atlanta in December 1942: 118 miles in less then 3 days because he had read an unsubstantiated newspaper story that Japanese troops had marched 100 miles in 72 hours in Malaysia.
How despicable. Not only was Sink punishing his men for something they had no control over but he was punishing them for spending what little free time they had been given to be with their families. Many for the last time.
I don´t remember if it was on Ambrose´s book or in the HBO documentary, but Winters said the punishment was unfair, but he got the message: In battle, there are no excuses for being late, a whole mission depends on it. When Sink reprimanded him for being late to meeeting because no jeep showed up to pick Winters up, Sink asked him what was the distance and said he should´ve run lol.
At first I agree with you, but upon further thought, everything he did as the leader of the 506th was done with purpose. To make them effective as possible. Every little distraction, every little deviation, took away from thier overall effectiveness, regardless of fairness, or if they had "control" in 2024, I don't know if as a country, or as a people, we could ever put together large forces like this again, and one of the many reasons we could not, would be our expectations of "fairness".
"Sorry honey, can't visit. Trains might fail, trucks and cars might fail, horses might fail, might be a tornado to rip up the bridge, might be an ice storm even though it's June, might get mugged and stabbed and left on the side of the road, and there's not enough time to walk from your place back to post. Can't be late!"
My father was Deputy Provost Marshall in the 18th A/B Corp at Fort Bragg when Gen. Sink was Post Commander. I personally shook hands with him three times. What your film left out was the fact that Sink was ordered to train a Regiment as tough as the German SS. I think he did a pretty good job. Also the military experts all said that the Airborne was a suicide mission, but look at the number of men who survived. I cannot say anything bad about the man.
You can't compare a Captain in supply (S4) with the Regimental Commander. I doubt Sink even knew Sobel. Also Band of Brothers was entertainment not a documentary. Both Winters and others pointed that out.
@@StephenLewin-cq2zy If you look through my videos you will see a thumbnail photo of Sink and Sobel standing next to each other. To say a regimental commander doesn't know one of his own company commanders is ridiculous. Also band of brothers was 'dramatized' history but Tom Hank's goal was to tell the REAL story of the men of Easy Company.
You know I'm going to have to agree with you and say Gen. Sink probably knew Sobel well. And that's why he relieved him of his command. But to say Gen. Sink was sadistic, that that's going overboard.
There's a difference between being a disciplinarian who goes strictly by the book and a hardass who encourages his men to push themselves past their perceived limits. The first will come off as Sobel is depicted in the film; the second leads by personal example, tries to be the best in any skill or physical challenges, yet genuinely gives praise to those who exceed expectations...this is the sort of leader who rarely has to raise his voice in anger, always encourages his men, makes every effort to help a struggling soldier improve his physical condition and skills without belittling his shortcomings. Always a positive influence who puts his men first and takes the heat when things don't go right. As my drill sgts put it, "the kind of officer the men deserve to have"...they also said that such officers tended to exist less than 10% of the time. I was privileged to have served under 6 such men during my time at FT Benning and in the 82d, including my platoon leader, company commander and XO, and my division commander
Hi W & T! It is very easy for us to judge this man. He carried the heaviest responsibility of trying to bring discipline to an unheard-of level to American troops. You quote Winters that Sink was unfair because he accepted no excuses. Yet Winters himself, on taped interviews, always wondered if he had trained his men harder would more men have come home. In the many special forces units, Rangers, Green Baret, only 1 to 3 out of 100 make the grade. Sink was far from perfect, but he was trying something that had never been done before. There were no templates. I am sure he knew that failure was not an option. In combat the stakes are high. The mission is all that matters. Another excellent video.
Like Sobel, the Sinks of the World are everywhere. Sadly many are from West Point and Annapolis. Guys like Sink are only as successful as the men under them. Sink was rich with talent and therefore could afford to play games. Concerning Sobel and Winters. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Excellent work here!!!!!! Thank you 🙏
I was an infantryman in Vietnam. I would have hated serving under Sink and Sobel. He's the kind of officer who would have rejected Audie Murphy because he was too young and too small. He would have tried to imprison Desmond Dawes.
On the Murphy thing, he was in command of paratroopers who would need to be able to sustain high-risk, heavily-laden landings (up to 110-lbs), as well as being able to keep up once landed carrying much more weight than a regular infantry.
I asked my dad (507 PIR WWII) about Audie Murphy being too small for the airborne, he replied that the light guys were at a severe disadvantage as it took them so long to get on the ground. And I agree with you about Sobel. There are only 24 hours a day for everyone - if you spend it all on PT, there isn't much time for the other important stuff.
@@jeffbosworth8116 thx, but could you remind me what I said about Sobel. I can't find anything about him in the only post of mine (that you responded to) and I can't recall exactly what I said. Thx.
The men knew Col. Sink's behavior and preferences for punishment on the 'harsh' side of strict. When he warned them not to be late returning from furlough that was a warning and not a suggestion. I suspect he knew at least one 'example' would present itself and be removed as another object lesson, fulfilling his tactical and strategic objectives. The 'tip of the spear' was to be kept razor sharp and any and all 'burrs' to be removed. Col. Sink was probably a Sociopathic personality but that is what the role required to be both victorious and alive at the end of the war.
As i was stationed in Germany in 1981 and trained with the 101st airborne Rangers sink was still talked about with the paratroopers who there for the 1980s reunions and infact got to meet some of the Easy CO veterens for VE day!! Sink and sobal weren't thought of very highly of all thoes years ago!!
Actually since they had finished training and were fully qualified they were probably just transferred to another regiment, or possibly another division. There is no way the Army would waste that amount of training to send them back to regular infantry. It was very common for soldiers to get swapped out to sister units when things like this took place. Sending them to a non airborne unit would have been a last resort action.
@@jeraldbottcher1588 I'd like to know. The Army of the 1970s to the 2000s would have done it the way you describe. I would suspect the Army of "Blood Stripes," where 1SGs and MSGs did not always transfer in Grade would have.
@@JohnMinehan-lx9ts Actually the Army in the 70's and 80's did transfer a lot to sister units. But they rarely booted men out of the regiment so to speak. The Army had changed a bit. By the 70's if your unit had a dirtbag soldier they did not "boot" them to another unit. they kept the soldier until they shaped up or were kicked out of the service. The idea was not to pass the problem soldier down the road, but to take care of the problem before you. Now if both the unit and the soldier agreed that it would be in the best interest of the Army and the soldier transfers like that would take place to give a soldier a fresh start. What was more common was if you were promoted from lower enlisted (E-1 to E-4) you would be transferred at a minimum to another platoon, usually to another company. The idea was that the lower enlisted would not treat the new NCO with the proper respect. When I made Sgt I was transferred to another platoon.
I was a founding member of the 2/506 when they reactivated it at Ft Campbell in 05, all the easy company guys that were still able to travel were there And I talked with them all at one point, never mentioned Sink and nor do I recall any of the unit history mentioning his name. I’m sure Brigade HQ had his picture up somewhere but if it weren’t for the show I’d never know who he was. My BN commander however was the worst officer I have ever met in 20 years of service.
Interesting. In Band of Brothers, Sink is given a mostly positive portrayal. About the only time he was shown negatively, is in regards to “The Last Patrol” which you covered.
Ever hear of a story when the DI wants to meet you out back and take off hat and insignia? My old man was a 17 year old kid in the marines for burglarizing a cookie factory. 4 guys had choice marines or jail. The went marines. Well Di picking on the skinny kid and well he was a smart mouth as well. So Di says lets go out back. His best friend (my stepfather of sorts) says why not pick on someone your own size. DI says you look like my size so they go out back. DI got drilled as he had no idea he was a gold glove champ with fast hands. DI never rode anyone the last 5 weeks and life was good. Sad addendum was one guy had size 17 shoes did basic in slippers and had to repeat it. They all went to Korea and some came back but all that did were wounded. Marines were so good (stepfather of sorts) would have stayed in as was mess sergeant in san Diego playing 36 holes of golf a day but when you reup no idea where you are going. Semper Fi.
According to other accounts he was also known as “Bourbon” Bob because of his prodigious drinking. Ed Shames related meeting with Sink once and said he smelled of whiskey.
In the modern Army and I am talking from the 60's to the present day the rule has always been to praise in public, admonish or punish in private. I also understand that this was supposed to be the practice even back in the 40's. Taking pictures of the men being drummed out of the regiment. Very poor leadership. Taking the wings and the patches is a display of public humiliation. They may have been stripped of their patches in formation, but they still were airborne qualified and most certainly put them back on at the next unit. They probably stayed in the division.
I served on active duty in the USMC 1974 to 1980. The Vietnam War was still happening in 1974, but there was little chance of anybody being sent there. In 1975 I was the 1st Combat Engineer Bn. at Camp Pendleton. We had a new C.O. of Bravo Company Captain Phillips, Bravo. He was old school and a Vietnam Vet. The Battalion was placing the non-shit bird Marines into Bravo Co. and the derelicts were sent to Alpha Co. Capt. Phillip placed veteran Sergeants and Staff Sergeants in charge of the 3 line platoons of 40 Marines each and the headquarters platoon also. He laid down some strict rules, including a zero tolerance for drub abuse, marijuana was everywhere back then. We were in the field for about 2 weeks as a Compnay sized force against some Infantry Companys from the 7th Marines. One night we were on 100% alert. The line platoons had the perimeter in two man fighting holes, encircling the headquarters platoon. During the night, 2 Marines were found asleep in their fighting hole. At about noon time the next day, Capt. Phillips held a mock court martial as he sat behind a field desk as the majority of the 160 Marine Company looked on. The 2 Marines were sentenced to death by firing squad. They were ordered to dig their own graves. Then they stood in front of their grave and they were given a mock execution by a firing squad shooting blank cartridges. They were instructed to lay down in their graves face up. They had to stay there motionless for 2 or 3 hours. The guilty Marines were from an other platoon than ours and I don't remember what became of them after that. At that time in the spring and summer of 1975, the "Fall of Saigon" was happening. The 1st Engineer Battalion was very busy constructing the huge "Tent City" for the South Vietnamese refugees. We helped process and took care of over 200,000 refugees that had to be processed at the Tent City before being sent to other places across the U.S.
@@cardo718 But you see that was a totally different situation. These two shit birds decided to go to sleep during an alert during a field problem. The commander could have busted them down, and given them article 15's. Instead he chose to give them and the entire command an object lesson. He did not select two out of many to be punished, they selected themselves. As you said there was a discipline problem in that company and he felt in that way he was getting the message across to everyone. Mind you, yes it still went against the Praise in Public, Punish in Private rules. but I am guessing he was trying to correct a bigger issue. I agree it may have been a bit draconian at the time. BUT I will bet they learned their lesson, and so did everyone else. I am willing to bet that those marines if they were any good at all would have been able to "soldier on and succeed" after that. Col Sink however was not treating everyone fairly. He should have punished everyone who came back late, or none at all. If he was going to drum them out of the regiment that should have been done privately. Everyone would have been told why and the message would have been received by the battalion as well
@jeraldbottcher1588 I agree with you. Our Company C.O. was making an example. I don't remember hearing any Marines in Bravo Company complain about how Capt Phillips did things. We expected hardships and discipline. You can even say that most of us wanted that sense of structure. I was a Lance Corporal and a squad leader. Our platoon Sgt. had 4 tours in Vietnam. Sgt. Betmodes pushed us and molded us. He arranged a whole lot if extra training for us. Rapelling out of helicopters, rubber boat training at Coronado Island at Ssn Diego, etc. Bermodes was a prior Recon Marine. He changed my life forever. I still keep in contact with him.
I agree that could have been done in private but then Sink wanted it to "sink" in:( Better than the French when they would draw straws for firing squads when units would show fear or cowardice coming out of the trenches:)
@@cardo718Recall of 3rd battalion 21st Infantry from DaNang officially ended ground participation in august1972. Last combat troops out in early 73 so only advisors and marines there for security.
Herbert Sobel deserves respect and not the derision he's gotten since Stephen E Ambrose's book came out. He did his bit, served in combat, was awarded citations for bravery.
Wars are won by hard men with clear expectations. Orders were clear before the men were released for 10 days. The drumming out ceremony was a relatively benign demonstration of the critical nature of completing a mission within time constraints.
If you look beyond the things of sink you can be blessed with the hardship of who was its give the men a focus to endure everything that the enemy gives them ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
"We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." -- Joseph Smith
I just finished, "Band of Brothers," a couple of months ago - over 20 years after its first airing. It deserves its reputation. I know it was, "Hollywoodized," to some extent. Seeing clips of David Schwimmer playing Herbert Sobel probably drew me in. I've respected Dale Dye - who played Robert Sink - for years as a technical advisor and actor. I always felt that Herbert Sobel was unfairly tarred by the series. If your profile of Col. Sink is accurate, I can see why Sobel came across as a tyrant: he was emulating his superior.
Captain Sobel was subtly undermined by his aides during the map reading and compass exercise in England. This was depicted in the BoB scene when Sobel cut the barbwire fence. That scene played well for audiences at Sobel's expense because it was a Hollywood gimmick rather than the truth. Sobel was not stupid and neither were his aides. This information came to light from recent interviews with relatives of those aides who heard their stories. Sink knew his men's hatred for the man would jeopardize the mission. His promotion and transfer still recognized his success with Easy Co.
Nixon was not demoted by position. Regimental Intelligence Officer to Battalion Ops officer is a step up and put him 3rd in the line of succession to the battalion commander.
That is true. He was stepped down in the fact that he was removed from the regiment level and placed down to the battalion level, BUT the rank / role of the Intelligence Officer is that of a 1Lt or a Cpt. The role / Rank of a battalion Operations Officer is that of a Cpt (promotable) or a Major. Mind you Major Winters held the position of a Lt Colonel. Most times the Operations Officer is also the Battalion XO. Company Commanders were almost always supposed to be Captains. The thing is many officers did not get promoted to the rank that their positions held was because of time in service requirements. Colonel Sink did not like to promote his officers to a higher rank. If they were promoted then someone at the division level was likely to take them away.
I think for the fact that Sink wanted him out of the regiment = a demotion. Battalion operations might have been the only position available for Winters to place him. But I get your point.
It can be said that the Sink, Sobel and Strayer team we very good training officers. Even the Easy company men admit to that. Had they not been as brutal as they were, they wouldn’t have got through what they did…
And how many men killed themselves for being booted out of the 506th on dubious charges? Remember in one of the first episodes of the series, a veteran of Easy Company recalls how he knew two guys who killed themselves for not making the cut. Imagine how it would be for a fully qualified parachute infantry soldier, having just shown your uniform and photos of your comrades to your friends and family, then being virtually cashiered for being late because the trains were not running on time.
I understand Sink, I would not like his actions, but I understand him. Sink was someone focused solely on end results and he viewed his troops as tools to get there. I witnessed and experienced that same mentality when I was in the Marines. I understand it, but don't agree it should be one's sole focus. I believe in: Mission, People, & Performance in that order. First and foremost, you have to get the job done. You then have to take care of your people along the way, and finally look at how to do the job Better, Faster, Cheaper. Just my two cents worth .......
Having spent 30 years in the Army and commanded at company, battalion and brigade level I can safely say that leadership and command is on the job training. If your on time then your late. If I was in Sink's situation would I have done the same. Probably not. Would I and my CSM take corrective action yes. My reason for this is I was taught to look at the whole soldier not one point in time. Did Sink's junior commanders disapprove of Sink's order's? Maybe but no one had the gumption to disagree. At the end, Sink's directive to drum out those who were late was legal and it enforced the standard. If you don't enforce the standards then the machine breaks down. This is not good for the soldiers or the unit. Sink's directive could have been challenged by MG Taylor or by the soldiers themselves. But apparently no body did. On Sobel. If i was him i would have requested transfer from the regiment. If I am good enough to command a company but yet you replace me for doing what you taught me then why should I stay? This leads to my last point. I am not sure that Sink was well thought off by HQ 101st. Thats my assumption. Sink was a tool. His officers were tools. Ever wonder why Winters did not pin on LTC? Hes the only battalion commander in the division as a major? Did Sink not push to get him promoted? Why is Nixon still a captain? If Sink is going to place Winters in the CO position then work on getting him promoted. You owe that to Winters. Maybe at the end we are ALL TOOLs.
There are a lot of assumptions about Sobel's being removed as CO of Easy, mainly based on the timing of Winters Court Martial and the Sergeants revolt. None of the people that actually knew said anything about it. But Sobel's assignment to parachute school was not some do nothing job to get rid of Sobel. That parachute school trained the Doctors, Chaplains, and other officers that were vital to the regiment. Sobel was assigned because he was a very good trainer. When the training was finished, Sobel was brought back to regiment, and he was eventually made regiment S-4, supply. Also, Sobel jumped into Normandy, and lead a group of four men to take out a machine gun nest.
@@charlesgantz5865 If Sobel was killed while trying to take that machine gun nest, it would have cost only four men. If he was killed while commanding Easy, well...
From what I read about the drumming-out of the "late" soldiers, it wasn't that they were late but he got rid of the person who showed up last in each company. They all could have been on time but the last one there still would have been done.
Great episode. Your story is no surprise. Sink was a clown, probably the least effective parachute regimental commander of the war, and in reality, commanded probably the least accomplished parachute regiment in Europe. Sink was largely responsible for the failure of the infamous Bridge Too Far in Operation Market-Garden. To capture the Wilhelmina Canal at Son in Holland, Sink was handed orders to jump the 506 PIR south of the Canal. But despite that the 501 PIR and 504 PIR insisting on being jumped on either side of their objective bridges, Sink conversely refused, and instead demanded the 506 PIR be jumped together with the 502 PIR north of the Canal. The 506 PIR then took far too long assembling and reaching the bridge from the north, and it was subsequently destroyed by the enemy. It was the first bridge in succession of 7 targeted bridges, and the only bridge not captured in Market-Garden, leaving Sink's 506 PIR the only regiment to fail in its mission. Loss of the Wilhelmina Canal bridge delayed the advancing ground armor for at least 36 hours, a fatal delay in reaching the paratroopers at Arnhem. I could go on. Breacourt Manor in Normandy is grossly overrated, particularly given contemporary Normandy actions by the 501, 502, 505, 507 PIRs, and most notably the 325 GIR. And speaking of overrated, the record shows the 506 PIR played the least part of the 101 Airborne's regiments in both Carentan and the Bulge. Despite the great Band of Brothers series, Sink actually paled greatly in personal and professional comparison with the legendary parachute regimental commanders, luminaries like the 501's Howard Johnson, 503's George Jones, 504's Reuben Tucker, 505's Jim Gavin, and even iconic parachute battalion commanders like the 509's Edson Raff and Doyle Yardley, and the 551's Wood Joerg. It is no surprise to learn from you that Sink was also a petty tyrant, and quite possibly based on your reporting, a little unstable. One thing though, those 506 PIR members you reported Sink expelling from the paratroops most certainly is not accurate. Sink lacked the authority to do so, and most certainly lacked the authority to remover their jump wings. He may have drummed them from the 506 PIR, but in mid 1943, they were definitely scooped up by another regiment, or shipped overseas as replacements to the 82d Airborne, which already had two combat jumps and campaigns under its belt, and rather appreciated the independed minded who may miss a train.
I appreciate you comments and agree with them. I am very biased (my dad was inthe 507 from beginning to end. He was at Timmes' Orchard). The charge that Cpt Rae did at la Fiere Bridge was far more impressive than anthing 506th did. I think even Bastogne was overrated. They were never outnumbered by the attackers, had armor and artillery support and were fighting line infantry. At the end of the Bulge the 507th went up against the Fuhere Escort Brigade. Lightly equipped paratroopers going against an equally elite brigade of Panzer Grenadiers and tanks.
If Breacourt Manor was overrated then why was it taught at West Point? somehow I do not think they teach overrated actions at the Point .Winters should have received the MOH for that but from what I read the 101st command said there was only going to be one for Normandy which went deservedly to ieutenant Colonel Robert Cole
@@mikeyj9607 It seems this may be another Ambrose exageration. If Google results can be trusted (iffy) there are many claiming to be West Point grads who say that isn't true.
Sink was to the Army what Michael P Downs was to the Marine Corps. Downs married Chesty Pullers daughter and had become the Regimental C O of the 7th Marines in 29 Palms. He had been the hero of the Battle of Hue City in Viet Nam. On the other hand from what I heard many Marines died needlessly as he received his medals. He was a hot head leading from emotion rather than facts. Firing good officers and SNCOS due to feelings. I was on his staff and one of the lucky ones that got out of there without a sign it twice fitness report. How many young enlisted men die needlessly due to Sinks and Downs. My dad and brother were enlisted Marines so I always had a heart for young enlisted men.
I thought his son-in-law was a gentleman who was named Dabney, who was awarded the Navy cross for his service ad a Company Commander at Khe Sanh? Did he pass away and LtGen Puller's Daughter remarry Col Downs?
Weird how they depicted him like he was in his 50s or sixties in the show. But if he was commissioned in 1927, he would have been 22/23... he would have been under 40 during the time he's shown in band of brothers. Kind of interesting given how faithful they were when casting other roles.
If Sink was such a good regimental commander and graduated West Point in 27 odd that he did not move up during the war. I see he rose well during peacetime. While transferring men out of Paratroopers seems extreme it may have instilled much to the men. It was a different time back then, now you would get a jag lawyer and fight it:) Nixon getting bounced really most would wonder why he was allowed to be in his position as long as he was:) Regardless how well you do your job alcoholism is seldom embraced in the military unless you are U.S.Grant or at least wear a star. Great vlog!
I am at a loss as to why Colonel Sink was so draconian in his dismissal of the 9 men for returning late from furlough (leave as we call it in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧), he was right about them being disciplined as they should have returned early, by a day maybe 2, the men knew that the United States 🇺🇸 transportation system was in a mess and that they couldn’t guarantee getting to base on time, military personnel (especially in units that are supposedly the best in their respective country)are supposed to have the brains to realise that and should not rely upon a timetable, they should be able to Improvise, Adapt and Overcome, and those men didn’t do that, however, after all the cost of training and equipping them I would have thought that the military brass (except Colonel Sink) would not want to flush the cost down the toilet, yes they made a mistake but I don’t think it warranted the action that Sink took. Surely those men should have been brought up on charges before he did what he did, and they should have had their opportunity to defend themselves, but so far @ 6:02 it doesn’t appear that they did, and even though they didn’t I’m sure that given the choice of being drummed out of the regiment and some other form of punishment like doing basic training all over again, maybe doing some other physical punishment that would ingrain into them that failing to do exactly or more than any orders given and on time, they would have accepted that, they could have been made to wear the uniform of their previous unit until they were deemed to have been punished enough. I’m sure that some people would disagree with me, and that is fine, but I stand by my opinion 100%, other paratroopers would think that they could be drummed out for the slightest infraction of military law, or worse, Colonel Sinks personal list of infractions and disciplinary measures, and that would hurt morale and the determination to be the best of the best, unit cohesion in such a special, and relatively small, regiment is almost certainly going to have a breakdown in that respect. I think that Colonel Sinks behaviour would have been outside of his authority and would have needed support from the military brass who were further up the command chain, otherwise he would have left himself open to criticism at best, and disciplinary action at worst. I watched your episode about the pathfinder jump into Bastogne last night, and I think Colonel Sink got that question of the Silver star wrong as well.
Thanks for the post and I totally agree with you. I don't really know if a regimental commander has to answer to anybody as far as 'drumming out' parades go - probably not? It just seems to me that he was on a power trip. I think that his rejection of the silver stars to the Bastogne pathfinders was even more unjust than booting men out of the PIR. Sending out unnecessary patrols so close to the end of the war (Winters words not mine) was another example.
There has to be a back story to the furlough incident. Soldiers had travel orders and it was easy to check and see if anyone was lying by checking when he was ticketed for the return trip. If travel was that unpredictable, Sink knew it, and should have never granted leave to begin with, knowing some would be late. There has to be some facts missing in that story.
Commanding officers develop a specific leadership style if they are fortunate and successful enough to merit promotion. The typical styles are authoritative and authoritarian. Sinks seems to be of the latter.
10:06 my opinion of Colonel Robert Sink is that his portrayal by Captain Dale Dye acts as a through line loosely connecting three of the greatest war movies of the past 40 years: Platoon, Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers
If you've served in any military in the world, you've likely experienced similar behaviour to Sink and Sobels. I recall a petty, martinet of a corporal being promoted to sergeant 'so they could (supposedly) keep an eye on him', but to that NCO, the promotion meant his actions were correct and justified, so he became worse! We were all volunteers, our morale was high, and if there was a job needed doing, it got done quickly and efficiently so we could relax. We didn't need the attentions of a petty bullying NCO to 'hold our hands.' That sergeant broke the troops morale and spirit, and we stopped attending the Citizen Force unit. Three years later I heard the sergeant had left the unit, so I rejoined.
My father was platoon leader in Company M, 3rd Battalion, 187th ARCT and made both combat jumps at Sukchon and Munsan-ni. His company CO was Ronald Spiers.
Seems harsh but that sort of thing teaches you lessons that may keep you alive. I had some harsh commanders in my day that seemed over the top. As I grow older I kinda get where they were coming from. I also had commanders who had a superiority complex that I still think were idiots and would like to tell them should I ever run into them. Keep in mind they were trying to find ways to drum people out in order to get to the required strength. The only thing I can think of about Sink that has always irked me was those patrols he ordered at the end of fighting. Absolutely no need and a son didn't go home because of it. And an enemy soldier lay wounded on a river and later died. No excuse for that whatsoever. It's your job to get your soldiers home alive and taking unneeded risks at the end of a war is unforgivable.
Part of me thinks that Sink knew the value in having someone the men could unite in disliking how harsh he was. His men clearly respected him just that they didnt particularly like him.
I'm too young to have been in WWII but did go to Vietnam. I also know about railroads in the 20th century especially during WWII. Passenger trains were often very late because they had the last priority behind MAINs (troop trains) and priority freight (war materials) The men of the 506 came from all over the country, even Oregon. Given the transportation situation, to discipline men for returning late, is just plain wrong and unreasonable.
He was what was needed at the time he was needed. The 506th was by all accounts a fantastic regiment amongst many fantastic regiments. This is among many reasons why the US and its allies prevailed during the 2nd World War!!
I believe since all , not just one or two , of the sergeants were so much against following Sobel into battle made Sink think about the situation. I believe Sink definitely didn’t want to admit that Sobel wasn’t capable of being the officer in charge in battle . In my opinion that’s what kept those sergeant’s from being executed and also I think it was also since they were the only NCO’s that had been trained with the 101st , new the men and because the plan for D-Day was so close . If Sobel not being able to read maps as was depicted in the movie he would definitely not have been the one to make decisions for offending or defending an area.
Essentially Sink chose his Sergeants and a Lieutenant over a company commander and Captain. That wouldn't happen very often. I think he used Sobel for his strength (training and discipline) and then got rid of him before the combat came around. I don't think that the old Colonel was stupid by any means.
Sink had huge ego,Winters said that when Easy was assigned a mission when they got back Sink would bring a high ranking officer in and have Winters tell the man how they did it,then Sink would say "thats how we do it",he loved to brag.
How about researching Lt. Edward S. Mehosky, 1st Platon, Company H, 3rd Bn., 506th PIR, 101st Airborne; Normandy; Holland....Col. Sink had him take over as Company Commander, C Company in Holland, and his work at Neville and Bastogne...written about in "The Story Of A Soldier," by Ivan Mehosky
First of all, Robert F. Sink's legacy is the 506th PIR, and how the men in the regiment conducted themselves during the war. Second, being a Full Bird Colonel in the US Army is a big deal. And it seems like it is true he turned down promotions to stay with his regiment, thus earning the nickname "Five-oh-Sink", but third: He did eventually get his star, and then one more, and another, so he retired a Lieutenant general.
Rather than criticize any officers of the 101st, I will ask if the 1st Special Service Force under Col. Frederick or other elite combat units suffered from martinets? In my career I've known a few men and women I would not care to go to war with, but they were an extreme minority. Since I did not outrank them, I looked for ways to work around them if necessary.
Colonel Sink may have been "sadistic", and no I don't agree with all of his decisions - but the discipline he instilled on the troops was valuable, just look at what they were able to accomplish! And if you think that is sadistic, try joining the Ranger Regiment, then completing Ranger School! - 2/75 RLTW
I have often wondered how the training given Easy company compares to what we do today for training. Is it easier in comparison to today's standards, or is it viewed as insane what they had to do?
@@GR-bn3xj In the 1940s, airborne operations/training was brand new and little was known by the general public. Some joined because of the elite status, some joined for the additional jump pay. Today, most people who are interested in military operations/special operation units, etc. are familiar with it due to internet and social media. So most information is readily available. - Just a thought
Actually many volunteers Parachuted into dienbienphu Without jump training Injuries were no more than Trained ones At night as well with flak Everywhere!
And today the Drill Sergeants can’t swear, touch, or demean trainees. They actually give “Time Out” cards for infractions at some training centers. 😂🤣😂🤣
No he was not. His time produced absolute legends like Matt Ridgway, Jim Gavin, Rube Tucker, Howard Johnson, Bob Cole, Pat Cassidy, Ben Vandervoort et al.
@@charleshoughton525 The US military was during the time leading up to WWII a shell of an army and badly downsized after WWI. Remember too airborne infantry was a novel concept that had many high level officers who wanted the experiment ended. I never said that he was either good or bad but simply a product of a WWI trench war army suddenly thrusted into a new, modern "blitzkrieg" kind of warfare.
There’s 2 sides to every story. I think it was the Band of Brothers that said a tough leader like Sobel united all the men together in a common struggle. You also need hardened, determined and angry paratroopers, who want to take their aggression out on the enemy / mission. From my experience in the military if you give your subordinates an inch, they’ll take a mile. And they’ll go soft, lazy and indisciplined. Some kids always complain about the jobs they don’t want to do, like clean up after themselves. If a Serviceman stops complaining, check his pulse and airway.
I found this an interesting presentation. I believe that Col. Sink would make a parachute jump on his birthday every year. That's the kind of man you want to have as the CO of a paratrooper regiment.
It is interesting that in a Division that lost generals and had so many casualties that Sink stayed a colonel and commander of the 506 throughout the war.
General Maxwell Taylor was probably not happy with his performance during Market Garden where the 506th were the only regiment in the 101st to not achieve their objectives.
Reports are that Sink turned down promotion to General during the war because he wanted to stay with the regiment that he created. Also, Colonel is really the highest rank that actually leads men in combat, with a few rare exceptions.
It seemed a division replete with phenomenal regimental staffs and battalion commanders, but seriously questionable regimental commanders. Howard Johnson (501) was a good commander, but legit psycho, the 502 commander was relieved in Normandy for being deranged, and Sink (506). When they lost their division commander pre Normandy, they had to look to 82d Airborne for his replacement.
Your points are well taken, although I think "sadistic" might be a little strong. There is no evidence that he gained pleasure from inflicting his brutal methods. I think it's a case of an officer having the right motives, but employing the wrong methods. As far as Spiers goes, he was obviously an unusually brave guy, but he also murdered POWs, so I think his right to judge anyone is suspect.
Maybe. But I think to go to such extremes you need to get some sort of satisfaction out of it. Either that or the man was on a serious power trip. You can throw Sobel into the same category. Winters is considered the ultimate leader of men, could you see him doing something like the drumming out? Even he thought it was way over the top.
I forget which book I read that was written by an Easy company member ... I read a few of them. They called him Bourbon Bob owing to his excessive? drinking. I got the sense that he was respected by the men from what I read. Don't neglect The Pacific series if you have not yet watched. Much more intense, the men in the PTO faced much worse conditions IMO.
That was Ed Shames. I have made a video on The Pacific about Eugene Sledge's time before he arrived with his unit (link below) I will be doing a lot more in the future. ua-cam.com/video/wSR6TT13WT0/v-deo.html
Did you ever think that maybe in that time frame the name Bourbon Bob may have been a compliment? Look at all the movies from that time period and you will see all the leading men with a drink in their hand.
Well I guess I'm going to have to address this question of Gen. Sink's drinking. My father and the General were friends and he did tell me some of the stories about Sink's liquor problem. It got worse than most people know. However, he worked it out and got himself dryed out.
My dad was under his command in the 101 airborne 506 pathfinder. We need strong men like hie desperately today. Today's men are weak compared to the greatest generation.
Strength was one thing. being sadistic is another. You can be strong, hard, demanding without being sadistic. He was what we would call a toxic leader, He also encouraged toxic leaders. He reused to promote officers under him until he was forced to. He also demanded other officers to behave just like him (i.e. Sobel), He also played his officers against each other instead of having them work together. If Sobel would have at least been minimally proficient tactically he would not have relieved him of easy company
Two of my uncles, a great uncle, and several of my neighbors fought in WWII. I doubt any of them would have considered themselves the "greatest generation", certainly no more great than the men and women who served before and after them.
Having a highly specialized fighting unit is not about fair, it's about having a highly specialized fighting unit. Sobel is on my top 3 greatest Chicagoans of all time even if his contribution to winning the war was an inadvertent one. We are in middle of creating an entire generation that is adept at criticizing and nothing else of any value.
Kind of puts a new spin on the Sobel/NCO's situation, doesn't it? If he's ripping off patches for guys being late, he must have known how unfit for combat Sobel was going to be and so he took the opportunity to get rid of him. The NCO's got off lightly because Sink knew it.
No it doesn't. If Sink wanted to get rid of Sobel why didn't he use Sobels failures in leading field exercises to remove him from command? ''Captain Sobel you failed the field exercise at Camp Mackall for that you're being removed from command of E Company''.
@@ECJ49 Because he raised the highest rated company in the battalion? How do you remove the CO for that? "You trained the finest group of men, but you're relieved.."
@@frankpinmtlI'm pretty sure you can remove a field commander for being incompetent in the field. I don't know of any military rules then or now that would prohibit this.
@@ECJ49 They weren't in the field though, were they? They were training in England when this happened. Remember the whole Lipton/Winters conversation about Foxhole Norman Dyke? Winters told him he couldn't remove him, even though he was an absentee commander. But once he failed in combat, he could. Problem is, when a leader fails in combat, he gets his men killed.
Throwing someone out of the Paratroops after completing training because they were late getting back makes no sense. We were at war and needed every man. Disciplinary action, yes, but not a washout once finished with training.
There must have been more to it. For the fact that it was only one man per company probably means they could get rid of a few people the company commanders didn't like (attitude etc). Otherwise it was ridiculous and still quite cruel.
Colonel SInk was the perfect man to lead that regiment. His ruthless leadership was what made the 506th so legendary and was the glue that held them together through the war.
What made the 506th ''legendary'' was that they were portrayed in a HBO miniseries produced by a famous Hollywood actor and a famous Hollywood producer/director.
He was a petty clown, and the 506 is only legendary by a Hollywood series, they were probably the least accomplished parachute regiment of the six divisional regiments in Europe. Against advice, Sink probably single-handedly blew Operation Market-Garden, leading to the needless deaths of hundreds of paratroopers.
I am not a military expert, but at the amateur level do think I’m pretty well read on WWII history in general and the BOB in particular. It seems a poor decision to summarily (and in an exceedingly humiliating manner) to drum several qualified paratroopers out of the 506th at a time when the US Military was still forming global strategy with the British and our other allies and when the army was still recruiting and drafting what would ultimately be a combined force of millions (with other branches). These were, as you stated, elite troops, and very considerable resources had been invested in their training. For Colonel Sink to regard them as expendable (while still stateside!) seems shortsighted and strategically wrong. IMO America needed every trooper it could muster, especially in 1942. Further, as you also pointed out, the reason many troopers returned from leave late was due to circumstances beyond their control, such as a connecting train arriving late. Should the men have been denied the opportunity to return to their families, some for possibly the last time, as to not risk reporting back to duty on time? I think not. IMO the most such paratroopers deserved was a reprimand. One topic I didn’t hear you discuss was Sink’s reaction to the NCO revolt, so vividly portrayed by the great actor (and military veteran) Dale Dye. In the series, Col. Sink is shown stating, “I ought to have you all shot. This is nothing less than an act of mutiny…”. I don’t know how historically accurate that scene is, but it does make one wonder what type of leader he was. At least from E Company’s POV it got Sobel transferred to Chilton Foliate. TY for the video.
Overall he was good for the unit. Eventually he made questionable decisions out of bad information or judgement. It angered others. But that is not his whole whole contribution. Things like extra training or patrols are minor compared to the rest of what was going on. When there is a candy bar floating in the public pool, that is all you see.
Obviously he wanted the best So being rather strict he weeded out the unreliable As for the marrieds its not fair on the families to be in a Forthcoming combat situation So singles only should have Been enforced!
Sink, was out for himself firstk, and then the men. There is never a time to denigrate men for no factual reason. He did it time and again to effect his exalted ego.
Do you happen to have any information on the jump of the demo team into Bastone? I can't seem to find a record that the jump was credited as a combat jump in Army records.
General George S. Patton, Jr, famously stated that “a pint of sweat will save a gallon of blood.” Calling Sink a sadist is silly shows a misunderstanding of psychology. Did he take sexual pleasure in hard training? Speaking of hard training, have you ever spoken somebody who's been to ranger school or the Q Course?
Well I'm not a psychologist but that Patton quote has nothing to do with Sink stepping over the line. If the men of the company (including Winters) thought he was wrong then that's good enough for me. And yes I do think Sink enjoyed wielding the punish stick.
![The Band of Brothers Ambrose Interview That Got Heated - Featuring Guarnere & Lipton [Part 1]](/img/n.gif)
Here is a quote from Sun Tzu in his book "The Art of War," ch. "On the March" (written roughly 500 b.c.) regarding Leadership:
"A general who punishes his troops before he has won them over, will never be accepted by them and they will be useless to him. If he has already won them over but does not punish them when appropriate, they will still be useless. So you must bring your troops together with humane treatment, and bind them with discipline - this is the path to invincibility. Enact consistency in orders and instruction and the men will be loyal to you; if there is no consistency, they will not."
They (my two paratrooper uncles) were paid twice as much as other soldiers, were expected to fight independently, to go beyond standards of average G.I.s (Poor expectations, leading to poor outcomes!)
Thank you, great addition to this video.
@@j.dunlop8295 Double the money triple the risk:)
Wars are won by hard men with clear expectations. Sun Tzu also cut the head off of the emperor's concubine in a demonstration on how to train and instill a commander's control over a military organization.
You can see what the Army thought of Sink by his career. He was the only regimental commander in the 101st to Command his regiment throughout the war. After the war, while promoted, he didn't get command of an active-duty division; he got reserve divisions.
The army seemed to have actually thought highly of him. First, he actually requested to stay with the 506th throughout the war and could have easily been promoted past colonel if he wanted to. After the war he held numerous important posts such as Assistant commander of the 101st airborne and 11th airborne, and the 44th Infantry and 7th Armored who were actually active duty divisions when he was the commander. Most importantly, he was also commander of the XVIII Airborne Corps, one of the most prestigious commands in the army. Furthermore he was a chief advisor to the joint airborne troop board, where he created modern U.S. army airborne and air assault doctrine
Anyone that gets a third star is thought of highly by the powers that be.
That is unfortunately the wartime commander - peacetime commander conundrum.
Patton had the same "problem"~
the reason others were moved around were that they added TWO new airborne divisions but needed to keep regiments intact, he chose to stay rather than be promoted and he had the clout and good reasons for remaining with the 101st as well as 506th
@@kurtdanielson993same for the second and first…he didn’t earn them during the war as he remained with the unit fighting constantly so hadn’t had to opportunity yet to be promoted yet earned it three times later
It’s occurred to me that Sink’s conduct of inflicting Captain Sobel on the men of Easy Company, having the hated Captain do all the dirty work then eventually removing Sobel had a Machiavellian flavour. Colonel Sink was able to assert his authority and present himself as a saviour even though Sobel’s harshness would have met with Sink’s approval at virtually all material times.
Great analysis.
I wonder if Sobel had been an excellent field officer if Sink would have done what he did to Sobel. The sergeants' complaints of Sobel made Sink aware that Sobel's ineptitude might discredit Sink as the war progressed. Sobel was a valuable tool in training Easy but would have to be put aside for someone more competent. Sobel did make the jump into Normandy and nothing can be said against his commitment and courage of going into battle and performing well. That should have been shown also in B of B or at least mentioned.
Y’all complaining about Sobel being too hard….ummmm they were training for war. It’s not supposed to be easy. Or fair.
@@brianjungen4059 Tough and hard are good. Setting very high standards is good. Group punishment has it place. But the pettiness and lying goes a little to far, especially when you can't live up to your own standards.
Given that there were 14 companies in the 506th PIR, that theory doesn't make a lot of sense unless it can be shown that was Sink's general MO for selecting company COs. Why would Sink pull that trick only on E Company?
Sink sounds very similar to Sobel. Ater hearing this it makes more sense that Sobel was selected as a Captain in the 506th. Also, I cant even begin to imagine how pissed off Col. Sink was when the NCO’s refused to serve under Captain Sobel.
Yes they were one of a kind.
Captain Dye did a great job when he played Sink having his 'little talk' with the disobedient sergeants.
UNFORTUNATELY he was forced to spare their lives
Lucky Fragging wasn't common yet:)
Since they had Dale Dye play him in Band of Brothers I always liked him.
My reaction also. Maybe the portrait of Sink is too good and of Sobel too bad?
Dye was actually too old to play Sink, Sink was 37-40 in reality
I’ve seen it written that Colonel sink turned down promotion after promotion in order to stay the regimental commander at the 506th. It seems to me that this can be looked at under two lights. The first, that he was dedicated to this unit that he had created and did not want to entrust it to anybody else. However as a professional officer with 28 years of military service; part of me wonders if he was afraid to leave the comfort of the bubble that he had created. If you never leave the area that is eliminated by the unit’s light, he would never have had to venture into the dark! Part of my assessment….well, it seems to me that he was afraid adventuring into the dark and insulated himself with “his regiment”. I may be wrong…. maybe. But my assessment comes from the fact that 24 of my 28 years was in airborne units; 14 were in special forces units, 10 were in other Special Operations units; it never once occurred to me to hide out in a unit and not progress.
It can also be seen under a third light: As he was in competition for higher command with other Regimental commanders, he may not have been chosen.
In my years of service I have heard the words “I could’ve moved up but declined the offer” several times in people who truly couldn’t perform, or not favoured.
It is always a good idea to remember that the Army was different in the 1930s and 1940s than it is today. Sink went from being a CPT in January 1941 (one of the first officers to join and activate the 501s Airborne), to being a Colonel in 22 months later. In those 22 months he went from being a company commander in the 501st to activating a battalion in the 503rd, the commanding the 503rd for a short period, to then organizing and commanding the 506th. In April 1945, Colonel Sink was "promoted" to Assistant Division Commander of the 101st.
I think the likely reason for turning down the promotions had more to do with professional aspirations than anything else. He probably wanted the assistant division commander position, as it would set him up for general officer had the war continued. As it was, he eventually retired from the Army as a Lieutenant General, so he seems to have played his professional cards right.
A Marine General told me that the stars require being a politician. Some people can’t stomach developing that level of patience and temperament.
I call total B.S. on that.
@@wojciechgrodnicki6302 I knew a Marine General who demonstrated that to be a good General you had balance total commitment to the mission and the people with the political skill to sell doing the right thing to the chain of command.
He did it well (as did Army Generals I worked with). My observation: not easy but possible; respect to those that do it.
Did Sink ever find out his order was ignored? Not during the war but in life? That reaction would've been gold 😂😂
He died in the 60's so most likely not.
Probably did but what could he do after everyone was home except for Spiers.
@@RobertLee-wi5kc
It was certainly a sobering video. It’s also enlightening to learn the opinions of a variety of characters from Private David Webster to Winters and Speirs. Thank you for providing so many anecdotes from a variety of sources!
No problem
In his memoir, Winters never overtly criticizes Sink but he does include some stories in which the colonel made arrogant choices that others had to make good on. In addition to drumming out the late paratroopers and the Haguenau patrols, Winters wrote about how Sink once bet the regiment's payroll on a basketball game between the paratroopers and the Army Air Corps team while in England. Then there was the insane march he ordered 2nd Battalion to make from Toccoa to Atlanta in December 1942: 118 miles in less then 3 days because he had read an unsubstantiated newspaper story that Japanese troops had marched 100 miles in 72 hours in Malaysia.
How despicable. Not only was Sink punishing his men for something they had no control over but he was punishing them for spending what little free time they had been given to be with their families. Many for the last time.
I don´t remember if it was on Ambrose´s book or in the HBO documentary, but Winters said the punishment was unfair, but he got the message: In battle, there are no excuses for being late, a whole mission depends on it.
When Sink reprimanded him for being late to meeeting because no jeep showed up to pick Winters up, Sink asked him what was the distance and said he should´ve run lol.
At first I agree with you, but upon further thought, everything he did as the leader of the 506th was done with purpose. To make them effective as possible. Every little distraction, every little deviation, took away from thier overall effectiveness, regardless of fairness, or if they had "control" in 2024, I don't know if as a country, or as a people, we could ever put together large forces like this again, and one of the many reasons we could not, would be our expectations of "fairness".
@@majortolleson7976add to that almost zero volunteers.
@@majortolleson7976 Well, winters is remembered for taking intuitive and leading from the front.
There is a balance that has to be struck.
"Sorry honey, can't visit. Trains might fail, trucks and cars might fail, horses might fail, might be a tornado to rip up the bridge, might be an ice storm even though it's June, might get mugged and stabbed and left on the side of the road, and there's not enough time to walk from your place back to post. Can't be late!"
My father was Deputy Provost Marshall in the 18th A/B Corp at Fort Bragg when Gen. Sink was Post Commander. I personally shook hands with him three times. What your film left out was the fact that Sink was ordered to train a Regiment as tough as the German SS. I think he did a pretty good job. Also the military experts all said that the Airborne was a suicide mission, but look at the number of men who survived. I cannot say anything bad about the man.
He and Sobel did their jobs but there is always a line between being a good commander and being a total a**
You can't compare a Captain in supply (S4) with the Regimental Commander. I doubt Sink even knew Sobel. Also Band of Brothers was entertainment not a documentary. Both Winters and others pointed that out.
@@StephenLewin-cq2zy If you look through my videos you will see a thumbnail photo of Sink and Sobel standing next to each other. To say a regimental commander doesn't know one of his own company commanders is ridiculous.
Also band of brothers was 'dramatized' history but Tom Hank's goal was to tell the REAL story of the men of Easy Company.
You know I'm going to have to agree with you and say Gen. Sink probably knew Sobel well. And that's why he relieved him of his command. But to say Gen. Sink was sadistic, that that's going overboard.
There's a difference between being a disciplinarian who goes strictly by the book and a hardass who encourages his men to push themselves past their perceived limits. The first will come off as Sobel is depicted in the film; the second leads by personal example, tries to be the best in any skill or physical challenges, yet genuinely gives praise to those who exceed expectations...this is the sort of leader who rarely has to raise his voice in anger, always encourages his men, makes every effort to help a struggling soldier improve his physical condition and skills without belittling his shortcomings. Always a positive influence who puts his men first and takes the heat when things don't go right. As my drill sgts put it, "the kind of officer the men deserve to have"...they also said that such officers tended to exist less than 10% of the time. I was privileged to have served under 6 such men during my time at FT Benning and in the 82d, including my platoon leader, company commander and XO, and my division commander
Hi W & T! It is very easy for us to judge this man. He carried the heaviest responsibility of trying to bring discipline to an unheard-of level to American troops. You quote Winters that Sink was unfair because he accepted no excuses. Yet Winters himself, on taped interviews, always wondered if he had trained his men harder would more men have come home.
In the many special forces units, Rangers, Green Baret, only 1 to 3 out of 100 make the grade.
Sink was far from perfect, but he was trying something that had never been done before. There were no templates. I am sure he knew that failure was not an option.
In combat the stakes are high. The mission is all that matters. Another excellent video.
Like Sobel, the Sinks of the World are everywhere. Sadly many are from West Point and Annapolis. Guys like Sink are only as successful as the men under them. Sink was rich with talent and therefore could afford to play games. Concerning Sobel and Winters. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Excellent work here!!!!!!
Thank you 🙏
Thank you
I was an infantryman in Vietnam. I would have hated serving under Sink and Sobel. He's the kind of officer who would have rejected Audie Murphy because he was too young and too small. He would have tried to imprison Desmond Dawes.
On the Murphy thing, he was in command of paratroopers who would need to be able to sustain high-risk, heavily-laden landings (up to 110-lbs), as well as being able to keep up once landed carrying much more weight than a regular infantry.
I asked my dad (507 PIR WWII) about Audie Murphy being too small for the airborne, he replied that the light guys were at a severe disadvantage as it took them so long to get on the ground.
And I agree with you about Sobel. There are only 24 hours a day for everyone - if you spend it all on PT, there isn't much time for the other important stuff.
@@jeffbosworth8116 thx, but could you remind me what I said about Sobel. I can't find anything about him in the only post of mine (that you responded to) and I can't recall exactly what I said. Thx.
@@teller1290 That was in reply to Sam Sullivan post
Always a chance Sink or Sobel in Vietnam may have been fragged.
The men knew Col. Sink's behavior and preferences for punishment on the 'harsh' side of strict. When he warned them not to be late returning from furlough that was a warning and not a suggestion.
I suspect he knew at least one 'example' would present itself and be removed as another object lesson, fulfilling his tactical and strategic objectives. The 'tip of the spear' was to be kept razor sharp and any and all 'burrs' to be removed.
Col. Sink was probably a Sociopathic personality but that is what the role required to be both victorious and alive at the end of the war.
As i was stationed in Germany in 1981 and trained with the 101st airborne Rangers sink was still talked about with the paratroopers who there for the 1980s reunions and infact got to meet some of the Easy CO veterens for VE day!! Sink and sobal weren't thought of very highly of all thoes years ago!!
Hopefully, the men that were kicked out of the 506th for being late found a place in the 82nd.
Actually since they had finished training and were fully qualified they were probably just transferred to another regiment, or possibly another division. There is no way the Army would waste that amount of training to send them back to regular infantry.
It was very common for soldiers to get swapped out to sister units when things like this took place. Sending them to a non airborne unit would have been a last resort action.
@@jeraldbottcher1588 I'd like to know.
The Army of the 1970s to the 2000s would have done it the way you describe.
I would suspect the Army of "Blood Stripes," where 1SGs and MSGs did not always transfer in Grade would have.
@@JohnMinehan-lx9ts Actually the Army in the 70's and 80's did transfer a lot to sister units. But they rarely booted men out of the regiment so to speak. The Army had changed a bit. By the 70's if your unit had a dirtbag soldier they did not "boot" them to another unit. they kept the soldier until they shaped up or were kicked out of the service. The idea was not to pass the problem soldier down the road, but to take care of the problem before you. Now if both the unit and the soldier agreed that it would be in the best interest of the Army and the soldier transfers like that would take place to give a soldier a fresh start.
What was more common was if you were promoted from lower enlisted (E-1 to E-4) you would be transferred at a minimum to another platoon, usually to another company. The idea was that the lower enlisted would not treat the new NCO with the proper respect. When I made Sgt I was transferred to another platoon.
@@jeraldbottcher1588 True that's why battlefield commission was always transferred.
I was a founding member of the 2/506 when they reactivated it at Ft Campbell in 05, all the easy company guys that were still able to travel were there And I talked with them all at one point, never mentioned Sink and nor do I recall any of the unit history mentioning his name. I’m sure Brigade HQ had his picture up somewhere but if it weren’t for the show I’d never know who he was.
My BN commander however was the worst officer I have ever met in 20 years of service.
That's a great story, thanks for sharing.
I had heard of Sink, since he retired as a Three Star. He had a positive rep based on his record.
History may be written by the victors, but it is most certainly maintained by efforts such as this. Great vid
Glad you enjoyed it
@@War_And_Truth No, thank you
Another enjoyable and interesting post 👍
Thanks again!
Interesting. In Band of Brothers, Sink is given a mostly positive portrayal.
About the only time he was shown negatively, is in regards to “The Last Patrol” which you covered.
I thought the same thing.
I think it was a sticky subject for the vets. They obviously loved him for being the father of the 506th but most thought he was a bit of a tyrant.
Sounds like my Dad's WWII Marine boot camp stories.
Let's hear some of those boot camp stories, if they are true, there can never be too many. Seriously,
Ever hear of a story when the DI wants to meet you out back and take off hat and insignia? My old man was a 17 year old kid in the marines for burglarizing a cookie factory. 4 guys had choice marines or jail. The went marines. Well Di picking on the skinny kid and well he was a smart mouth as well. So Di says lets go out back. His best friend (my stepfather of sorts) says why not pick on someone your own size. DI says you look like my size so they go out back. DI got drilled as he had no idea he was a gold glove champ with fast hands. DI never rode anyone the last 5 weeks and life was good. Sad addendum was one guy had size 17 shoes did basic in slippers and had to repeat it. They all went to Korea and some came back but all that did were wounded. Marines were so good (stepfather of sorts) would have stayed in as was mess sergeant in san Diego playing 36 holes of golf a day but when you reup no idea where you are going. Semper Fi.
War is hell and so are the men condemned to fight and conduct it
According to other accounts he was also known as “Bourbon” Bob because of his prodigious drinking. Ed Shames related meeting with Sink once and said he smelled of whiskey.
Perhaps that's why he demoted Nixon (stealing his alcohol)
@@War_And_Truth Sink didn't like the competition.
In the modern Army and I am talking from the 60's to the present day the rule has always been to praise in public, admonish or punish in private. I also understand that this was supposed to be the practice even back in the 40's. Taking pictures of the men being drummed out of the regiment. Very poor leadership.
Taking the wings and the patches is a display of public humiliation. They may have been stripped of their patches in formation, but they still were airborne qualified and most certainly put them back on at the next unit. They probably stayed in the division.
I served on active duty in the USMC 1974 to 1980. The Vietnam War was still happening in 1974, but there was little chance of anybody being sent there. In 1975 I was the 1st Combat Engineer Bn. at Camp Pendleton. We had a new C.O. of Bravo Company Captain Phillips, Bravo. He was old school and a Vietnam Vet. The Battalion was placing the non-shit bird Marines into Bravo Co. and the derelicts were sent to Alpha Co. Capt. Phillip placed veteran Sergeants and Staff Sergeants in charge of the 3 line platoons of 40 Marines each and the headquarters platoon also. He laid down some strict rules, including a zero tolerance for drub abuse, marijuana was everywhere back then. We were in the field for about 2 weeks as a Compnay sized force against some Infantry Companys from the 7th Marines. One night we were on 100% alert. The line platoons had the perimeter in two man fighting holes, encircling the headquarters platoon. During the night, 2 Marines were found asleep in their fighting hole. At about noon time the next day, Capt. Phillips held a mock court martial as he sat behind a field desk as the majority of the 160 Marine Company looked on. The 2 Marines were sentenced to death by firing squad. They were ordered to dig their own graves. Then they stood in front of their grave and they were given a mock execution by a firing squad shooting blank cartridges. They were instructed to lay down in their graves face up. They had to stay there motionless for 2 or 3 hours. The guilty Marines were from an other platoon than ours and I don't remember what became of them after that. At that time in the spring and summer of 1975, the "Fall of Saigon" was happening. The 1st Engineer Battalion was very busy constructing the huge "Tent City" for the South Vietnamese refugees. We helped process and took care of over 200,000 refugees that had to be processed at the Tent City before being sent to other places across the U.S.
@@cardo718 But you see that was a totally different situation. These two shit birds decided to go to sleep during an alert during a field problem. The commander could have busted them down, and given them article 15's. Instead he chose to give them and the entire command an object lesson. He did not select two out of many to be punished, they selected themselves. As you said there was a discipline problem in that company and he felt in that way he was getting the message across to everyone. Mind you, yes it still went against the Praise in Public, Punish in Private rules. but I am guessing he was trying to correct a bigger issue. I agree it may have been a bit draconian at the time. BUT I will bet they learned their lesson, and so did everyone else.
I am willing to bet that those marines if they were any good at all would have been able to "soldier on and succeed" after that.
Col Sink however was not treating everyone fairly. He should have punished everyone who came back late, or none at all. If he was going to drum them out of the regiment that should have been done privately. Everyone would have been told why and the message would have been received by the battalion as well
@jeraldbottcher1588 I agree with you. Our Company C.O. was making an example. I don't remember hearing any Marines in Bravo Company complain about how Capt
Phillips did things. We expected hardships and discipline. You can even say that most of us wanted that sense of structure. I was a Lance Corporal and a squad leader. Our platoon Sgt. had 4 tours in Vietnam. Sgt. Betmodes pushed us and molded us. He arranged a whole lot if extra training for us. Rapelling out of helicopters, rubber boat training at Coronado Island at Ssn Diego, etc. Bermodes was a prior Recon Marine. He changed my life forever. I still keep in contact with him.
I agree that could have been done in private but then Sink wanted it to "sink" in:( Better than the French when they would draw straws for firing squads when units would show fear or cowardice coming out of the trenches:)
@@cardo718Recall of 3rd battalion 21st Infantry from DaNang officially ended ground participation in august1972. Last combat troops out in early 73 so only advisors and marines there for security.
Him being from West Point and others I have known in my own life that went to a service academy, Sinks actions and personality match the ones I know.
Herbert Sobel deserves respect and not the derision he's gotten since Stephen E Ambrose's book came out. He did his bit, served in combat, was awarded citations for bravery.
In Baseball they say sometimes a player has to be traded to become, a great player.
Wars are won by hard men with clear expectations. Orders were clear before the men were released for 10 days. The drumming out ceremony was a relatively benign demonstration of the critical nature of completing a mission within time constraints.
If you look beyond the things of sink you can be blessed with the hardship of who was its give the men a focus to endure everything that the enemy gives them ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
"We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion." -- Joseph Smith
Great work. Great narration. Little bias. Well researched. You're running series has been a perfect fit as I re-watch the HBO Series.
Thanks that's much appreciated
I just finished, "Band of Brothers," a couple of months ago - over 20 years after its first airing. It deserves its reputation.
I know it was, "Hollywoodized," to some extent. Seeing clips of David Schwimmer playing Herbert Sobel probably drew me in. I've respected Dale Dye - who played Robert Sink - for years as a technical advisor and actor.
I always felt that Herbert Sobel was unfairly tarred by the series. If your profile of Col. Sink is accurate, I can see why Sobel came across as a tyrant: he was emulating his superior.
Captain Sobel was subtly undermined by his aides during the map reading and compass exercise in England. This was depicted in the BoB scene when Sobel cut the barbwire fence. That scene played well for audiences at Sobel's expense because it was a Hollywood gimmick rather than the truth. Sobel was not stupid and neither were his aides. This information came to light from recent interviews with relatives of those aides who heard their stories. Sink knew his men's hatred for the man would jeopardize the mission. His promotion and transfer still recognized his success with Easy Co.
Nixon was not demoted by position. Regimental Intelligence Officer to Battalion Ops officer is a step up and put him 3rd in the line of succession to the battalion commander.
That is true. He was stepped down in the fact that he was removed from the regiment level and placed down to the battalion level, BUT the rank / role of the Intelligence Officer is that of a 1Lt or a Cpt. The role / Rank of a battalion Operations Officer is that of a Cpt (promotable) or a Major. Mind you Major Winters held the position of a Lt Colonel. Most times the Operations Officer is also the Battalion XO. Company Commanders were almost always supposed to be Captains. The thing is many officers did not get promoted to the rank that their positions held was because of time in service requirements. Colonel Sink did not like to promote his officers to a higher rank. If they were promoted then someone at the division level was likely to take them away.
I think for the fact that Sink wanted him out of the regiment = a demotion. Battalion operations might have been the only position available for Winters to place him. But I get your point.
It can be said that the Sink, Sobel and Strayer team we very good training officers. Even the Easy company men admit to that. Had they not been as brutal as they were, they wouldn’t have got through what they did…
And how many men killed themselves for being booted out of the 506th on dubious charges?
Remember in one of the first episodes of the series, a veteran of Easy Company recalls how he knew two guys who killed themselves for not making the cut. Imagine how it would be for a fully qualified parachute infantry soldier, having just shown your uniform and photos of your comrades to your friends and family, then being virtually cashiered for being late because the trains were not running on time.
@@AudieHolland you will always find soldiers killing themselves, before or after war. They killed themselves because they couldn’t enlist?
@@globalnomad450 Just watch the episode, it's the first one I think, before each episode begins, a few veterans recount their experiences.
I understand Sink, I would not like his actions, but I understand him. Sink was someone focused solely on end results and he viewed his troops as tools to get there. I witnessed and experienced that same mentality when I was in the Marines. I understand it, but don't agree it should be one's sole focus. I believe in: Mission, People, & Performance in that order. First and foremost, you have to get the job done. You then have to take care of your people along the way, and finally look at how to do the job Better, Faster, Cheaper. Just my two cents worth .......
Well said, I agree
Great comments. Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Having spent 30 years in the Army and commanded at company, battalion and brigade level I can safely say that leadership and command is on the job training.
If your on time then your late. If I was in Sink's situation would I have done the same. Probably not. Would I and my CSM take corrective action yes. My reason for this is I was taught to look at the whole soldier not one point in time. Did Sink's junior commanders disapprove of Sink's order's? Maybe but no one had the gumption to disagree. At the end, Sink's directive to drum out those who were late was legal and it enforced the standard. If you don't enforce the standards then the machine breaks down. This is not good for the soldiers or the unit. Sink's directive could have been challenged by MG Taylor or by the soldiers themselves. But apparently no body did.
On Sobel. If i was him i would have requested transfer from the regiment. If I am good enough to command a company but yet you replace me for doing what you taught me then why should I stay?
This leads to my last point. I am not sure that Sink was well thought off by HQ 101st. Thats my assumption. Sink was a tool. His officers were tools. Ever wonder why Winters did not pin on LTC? Hes the only battalion commander in the division as a major? Did Sink not push to get him promoted? Why is Nixon still a captain? If Sink is going to place Winters in the CO position then work on getting him promoted. You owe that to Winters. Maybe at the end we are ALL TOOLs.
There are a lot of assumptions about Sobel's being removed as CO of Easy, mainly based on the timing of Winters Court Martial and the Sergeants revolt. None of the people that actually knew said anything about it.
But Sobel's assignment to parachute school was not some do nothing job to get rid of Sobel. That parachute school trained the Doctors, Chaplains, and other officers that were vital to the regiment. Sobel was assigned because he was a very good trainer. When the training was finished, Sobel was brought back to regiment, and he was eventually made regiment S-4, supply. Also, Sobel jumped into Normandy, and lead a group of four men to take out a machine gun nest.
@@charlesgantz5865 If Sobel was killed while trying to take that machine gun nest, it would have cost only four men.
If he was killed while commanding Easy, well...
or you're born with it.
Did you ever graduate 4th grade?
@@BobHagerty nope. I did get promoted out of 4th grade though, and continued on for some time. Congrats to you though if you graduated 4th grade.
From what I read about the drumming-out of the "late" soldiers, it wasn't that they were late but he got rid of the person who showed up last in each company. They all could have been on time but the last one there still would have been done.
That's like the Druids. They killed the last person to show up when they were gathering for war.
Great episode. Your story is no surprise. Sink was a clown, probably the least effective parachute regimental commander of the war, and in reality, commanded probably the least accomplished parachute regiment in Europe. Sink was largely responsible for the failure of the infamous Bridge Too Far in Operation Market-Garden. To capture the Wilhelmina Canal at Son in Holland, Sink was handed orders to jump the 506 PIR south of the Canal. But despite that the 501 PIR and 504 PIR insisting on being jumped on either side of their objective bridges, Sink conversely refused, and instead demanded the 506 PIR be jumped together with the 502 PIR north of the Canal. The 506 PIR then took far too long assembling and reaching the bridge from the north, and it was subsequently destroyed by the enemy. It was the first bridge in succession of 7 targeted bridges, and the only bridge not captured in Market-Garden, leaving Sink's 506 PIR the only regiment to fail in its mission. Loss of the Wilhelmina Canal bridge delayed the advancing ground armor for at least 36 hours, a fatal delay in reaching the paratroopers at Arnhem. I could go on. Breacourt Manor in Normandy is grossly overrated, particularly given contemporary Normandy actions by the 501, 502, 505, 507 PIRs, and most notably the 325 GIR. And speaking of overrated, the record shows the 506 PIR played the least part of the 101 Airborne's regiments in both Carentan and the Bulge.
Despite the great Band of Brothers series, Sink actually paled greatly in personal and professional comparison with the legendary parachute regimental commanders, luminaries like the 501's Howard Johnson, 503's George Jones, 504's Reuben Tucker, 505's Jim Gavin, and even iconic parachute battalion commanders like the 509's Edson Raff and Doyle Yardley, and the 551's Wood Joerg. It is no surprise to learn from you that Sink was also a petty tyrant, and quite possibly based on your reporting, a little unstable.
One thing though, those 506 PIR members you reported Sink expelling from the paratroops most certainly is not accurate. Sink lacked the authority to do so, and most certainly lacked the authority to remover their jump wings. He may have drummed them from the 506 PIR, but in mid 1943, they were definitely scooped up by another regiment, or shipped overseas as replacements to the 82d Airborne, which already had two combat jumps and campaigns under its belt, and rather appreciated the independed minded who may miss a train.
Yes he was portrayed by Elliott Gould in a Bridge Too Far and was the one who had the bridge at Son blow up in his face.
I appreciate you comments and agree with them. I am very biased (my dad was inthe 507 from beginning to end. He was at Timmes' Orchard). The charge that Cpt Rae did at la Fiere Bridge was far more impressive than anthing 506th did. I think even Bastogne was overrated. They were never outnumbered by the attackers, had armor and artillery support and were fighting line infantry. At the end of the Bulge the 507th went up against the Fuhere Escort Brigade. Lightly equipped paratroopers going against an equally elite brigade of Panzer Grenadiers and tanks.
If Breacourt Manor was overrated then why was it taught at West Point? somehow I do not think they teach overrated actions at the Point .Winters should have received the MOH for that but from what I read the 101st command said there was only going to be one for Normandy which went deservedly to ieutenant Colonel Robert Cole
@@mikeyj9607 It seems this may be another Ambrose exageration. If Google results can be trusted (iffy) there are many claiming to be West Point grads who say that isn't true.
@@jeffbosworth8116 I see your point ,Ive read it in many different places which doesn't make it true but maybe they did at one point ,who knows
Sink was to the Army what Michael P Downs was to the Marine Corps. Downs married Chesty Pullers daughter and had become the Regimental C O of the 7th Marines in 29 Palms. He had been the hero of the Battle of Hue City in Viet Nam. On the other hand from what I heard many Marines died needlessly as he received his medals. He was a hot head leading from emotion rather than facts. Firing good officers and SNCOS due to feelings. I was on his staff and one of the lucky ones that got out of there without a sign it twice fitness report. How many young enlisted men die needlessly due to Sinks and Downs. My dad and brother were enlisted Marines so I always had a heart for young enlisted men.
Thanks for the great story.
He sounds very much like Puller then, who needlessly butchered his 1/1 Marines on Peleliu.
@@charleshoughton525 agreed. Apple didnt fall far from the tree.
I thought his son-in-law was a gentleman who was named Dabney, who was awarded the Navy cross for his service ad a Company Commander at Khe Sanh?
Did he pass away and LtGen Puller's Daughter remarry Col Downs?
OK, two daughters, I thought he only had a son and daughter . . . .
Weird how they depicted him like he was in his 50s or sixties in the show.
But if he was commissioned in 1927, he would have been 22/23... he would have been under 40 during the time he's shown in band of brothers.
Kind of interesting given how faithful they were when casting other roles.
I like Dale but I think they just wanted to give him a role. He was good, just the wrong age as you say.
You got a new subscriber … outstanding videos!
Awesome, thank you!
If Sink was such a good regimental commander and graduated West Point in 27 odd that he did not move up during the war. I see he rose well during peacetime. While transferring men out of Paratroopers seems extreme it may have instilled much to the men. It was a different time back then, now you would get a jag lawyer and fight it:) Nixon getting bounced really most would wonder why he was allowed to be in his position as long as he was:) Regardless how well you do your job alcoholism is seldom embraced in the military unless you are U.S.Grant or at least wear a star. Great vlog!
Good video! Sounds like Sink and Sobell were cut from the same 'cloth'.
That's my taking of it too.
I am at a loss as to why Colonel Sink was so draconian in his dismissal of the 9 men for returning late from furlough (leave as we call it in the United Kingdom 🇬🇧), he was right about them being disciplined as they should have returned early, by a day maybe 2, the men knew that the United States 🇺🇸 transportation system was in a mess and that they couldn’t guarantee getting to base on time, military personnel (especially in units that are supposedly the best in their respective country)are supposed to have the brains to realise that and should not rely upon a timetable, they should be able to Improvise, Adapt and Overcome, and those men didn’t do that, however, after all the cost of training and equipping them I would have thought that the military brass (except Colonel Sink) would not want to flush the cost down the toilet, yes they made a mistake but I don’t think it warranted the action that Sink took.
Surely those men should have been brought up on charges before he did what he did, and they should have had their opportunity to defend themselves, but so far @ 6:02 it doesn’t appear that they did, and even though they didn’t I’m sure that given the choice of being drummed out of the regiment and some other form of punishment like doing basic training all over again, maybe doing some other physical punishment that would ingrain into them that failing to do exactly or more than any orders given and on time, they would have accepted that, they could have been made to wear the uniform of their previous unit until they were deemed to have been punished enough.
I’m sure that some people would disagree with me, and that is fine, but I stand by my opinion 100%, other paratroopers would think that they could be drummed out for the slightest infraction of military law, or worse, Colonel Sinks personal list of infractions and disciplinary measures, and that would hurt morale and the determination to be the best of the best, unit cohesion in such a special, and relatively small, regiment is almost certainly going to have a breakdown in that respect.
I think that Colonel Sinks behaviour would have been outside of his authority and would have needed support from the military brass who were further up the command chain, otherwise he would have left himself open to criticism at best, and disciplinary action at worst.
I watched your episode about the pathfinder jump into Bastogne last night, and I think Colonel Sink got that question of the Silver star wrong as well.
Thanks for the post and I totally agree with you. I don't really know if a regimental commander has to answer to anybody as far as 'drumming out' parades go - probably not? It just seems to me that he was on a power trip. I think that his rejection of the silver stars to the Bastogne pathfinders was even more unjust than booting men out of the PIR. Sending out unnecessary patrols so close to the end of the war (Winters words not mine) was another example.
There has to be a back story to the furlough incident. Soldiers had travel orders and it was easy to check and see if anyone was lying by checking when he was ticketed for the return trip. If travel was that unpredictable, Sink knew it, and should have never granted leave to begin with, knowing some would be late. There has to be some facts missing in that story.
I really tried hard to find an account from one of the men who were banished but I guess they were too embarrassed to own up to it.
COL Sink would make a fine politician these days or executive in one of today's Fortune 500 companies
He was a man with a vision who started a job and wanted to see it through to completion. That meant VG Day. 🇺🇸
Commanding officers develop a specific leadership style if they are fortunate and successful enough to merit promotion. The typical styles are authoritative and authoritarian. Sinks seems to be of the latter.
Sounds like a tough leader. Sounds a bit like Grandpa. Thanks for the episode, take care.
10:06 my opinion of Colonel Robert Sink is that his portrayal by Captain Dale Dye acts as a through line loosely connecting three of the greatest war movies of the past 40 years: Platoon, Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers
If you've served in any military in the world, you've likely experienced similar behaviour to Sink and Sobels.
I recall a petty, martinet of a corporal being promoted to sergeant 'so they could (supposedly) keep an eye on him', but to that NCO, the promotion meant his actions were correct and justified, so he became worse!
We were all volunteers, our morale was high, and if there was a job needed doing, it got done quickly and efficiently so we could relax. We didn't need the attentions of a petty bullying NCO to 'hold our hands.'
That sergeant broke the troops morale and spirit, and we stopped attending the Citizen Force unit.
Three years later I heard the sergeant had left the unit, so I rejoined.
The man, Sink, strict as hell including Sobel. Gotta hand it to them including Strayer, they achieved their objective and got results.
They made one of the finest fighting mechanisms of WWll
Less so than the 501st, 503d, 504th, 505th,and 507th Parachute Regiments.
My father, 94, made both combat jumps in Korea with the 187th RCT, 11th Airborne.
You must be very proud of him. Thanks for sharing.
My father was platoon leader in Company M, 3rd Battalion, 187th ARCT and made both combat jumps at Sukchon and Munsan-ni. His company CO was Ronald Spiers.
@@johnclark4593 That's awesome
Rakkasan!
Seems harsh but that sort of thing teaches you lessons that may keep you alive. I had some harsh commanders in my day that seemed over the top. As I grow older I kinda get where they were coming from. I also had commanders who had a superiority complex that I still think were idiots and would like to tell them should I ever run into them. Keep in mind they were trying to find ways to drum people out in order to get to the required strength. The only thing I can think of about Sink that has always irked me was those patrols he ordered at the end of fighting. Absolutely no need and a son didn't go home because of it. And an enemy soldier lay wounded on a river and later died. No excuse for that whatsoever. It's your job to get your soldiers home alive and taking unneeded risks at the end of a war is unforgivable.
AMEN !!
I live about a mile from where Sink was raised
Do they have a monument of him there?
Part of me thinks that Sink knew the value in having someone the men could unite in disliking how harsh he was. His men clearly respected him just that they didnt particularly like him.
Man has always learned to respect that what could destroy him.
Dick Winters seemed to think highly of Sink, according to his memoirs.
Love hate relationship from what I can gather.
You got to give it to him he got those boys ready for everything and the kitchen Sink 😂😂😂😂😂
I'm too young to have been in WWII but did go to Vietnam. I also know about railroads in the 20th century especially during WWII. Passenger trains were often very late because they had the last priority behind MAINs (troop trains) and priority freight (war materials) The men of the 506 came from all over the country, even Oregon. Given the transportation situation, to discipline men for returning late, is just plain wrong and unreasonable.
Mcnasty needs more love
I've only heard you and the fat electrician talk about him in pretty good detail
I'm not sure if you have seen it but I did a video on the filthy 13 some time ago.
@@War_And_Truth yeah I got yours and the electrician one.
But the Jake McNasty is hilarious
I wonder why that never made it to Band of Brothers ? Despicable.
I don't think Winters wanted the viewers thinking Sink was an ass. It probably would have taken up too much time as well.
He was what was needed at the time he was needed. The 506th was by all accounts a fantastic regiment amongst many fantastic regiments. This is among many reasons why the US and its allies prevailed during the 2nd World War!!
As a soldier I am so glad I never had to serve under an officer like Sink. He was a tyrant and an ass.
I believe since all , not just one or two , of the sergeants were so much against following Sobel into battle made Sink think about the situation. I believe Sink definitely didn’t want to admit that Sobel wasn’t capable of being the officer in charge in battle . In my opinion that’s what kept those sergeant’s from being executed and also I think it was also since they were the only NCO’s that had been trained with the 101st , new the men and because the plan for D-Day was so close . If Sobel not being able to read maps as was depicted in the movie he would definitely not have been the one to make decisions for offending or defending an area.
Essentially Sink chose his Sergeants and a Lieutenant over a company commander and Captain. That wouldn't happen very often. I think he used Sobel for his strength (training and discipline) and then got rid of him before the combat came around. I don't think that the old Colonel was stupid by any means.
Sink had huge ego,Winters said that when Easy was assigned a mission when they got back Sink would bring a high ranking officer in and have Winters tell the man how they did it,then Sink would say "thats how we do it",he loved to brag.
How about researching Lt. Edward S. Mehosky, 1st Platon, Company H, 3rd Bn., 506th PIR, 101st Airborne; Normandy; Holland....Col. Sink had him take over as Company Commander, C Company in Holland, and his work at Neville and Bastogne...written about in "The Story Of A Soldier," by Ivan Mehosky
Sounds interesting, ill take a look - thanks.
First of all, Robert F. Sink's legacy is the 506th PIR, and how the men in the regiment conducted themselves during the war. Second, being a Full Bird Colonel in the US Army is a big deal. And it seems like it is true he turned down promotions to stay with his regiment, thus earning the nickname "Five-oh-Sink", but third: He did eventually get his star, and then one more, and another, so he retired a Lieutenant general.
Rather than criticize any officers of the 101st, I will ask if the 1st Special Service Force under Col. Frederick or other elite combat units suffered from martinets? In my career I've known a few men and women I would not care to go to war with, but they were an extreme minority. Since I did not outrank them, I looked for ways to work around them if necessary.
Colonel Sink may have been "sadistic", and no I don't agree with all of his decisions - but the discipline he instilled on the troops was valuable, just look at what they were able to accomplish!
And if you think that is sadistic, try joining the Ranger Regiment, then completing Ranger School!
- 2/75 RLTW
I have often wondered how the training given Easy company compares to what we do today for training. Is it easier in comparison to today's standards, or is it viewed as insane what they had to do?
@@GR-bn3xj
In the 1940s, airborne operations/training was brand new and little was known by the general public.
Some joined because of the elite status, some joined for the additional jump pay.
Today, most people who are interested in military operations/special operation units, etc. are familiar with it due to internet and social media. So most information is readily available.
- Just a thought
Actually many volunteers
Parachuted into dienbienphu
Without jump training
Injuries were no more than
Trained ones
At night as well with flak
Everywhere!
And today the Drill Sergeants can’t swear, touch, or demean trainees. They actually give “Time Out” cards for infractions at some training centers. 😂🤣😂🤣
He was a product of his time.
He was worse than that. Good leaders, then and now, actually care about their men. Sink saw enlisted soldiers as pawns on a chess board. Nothing more.
Well it was a war so…..🙄
No he was not. His time produced absolute legends like Matt Ridgway, Jim Gavin, Rube Tucker, Howard Johnson, Bob Cole, Pat Cassidy, Ben Vandervoort et al.
@@charleshoughton525 The US military was during the time leading up to WWII a shell of an army and badly downsized after WWI. Remember too airborne infantry was a novel concept that had many high level officers who wanted the experiment ended. I never said that he was either good or bad but simply a product of a WWI trench war army suddenly thrusted into a new, modern "blitzkrieg" kind of warfare.
@@charleshoughton525 yes he was. It’s just that not everyone is going to be a super star like the guys you mentioned….
I agree with Sink.
There’s 2 sides to every story. I think it was the Band of Brothers that said a tough leader like Sobel united all the men together in a common struggle. You also need hardened, determined and angry paratroopers, who want to take their aggression out on the enemy / mission.
From my experience in the military if you give your subordinates an inch, they’ll take a mile. And they’ll go soft, lazy and indisciplined.
Some kids always complain about the jobs they don’t want to do, like clean up after themselves. If a Serviceman stops complaining, check his pulse and airway.
to all those brave men we give thanks, they all had parts, we won ffs
The reason Easy did not want to serve under Sobel was not because of the Discipline, it was because of the fact that Sobel was crap at logistics.
...and tactics.
I found this an interesting presentation.
I believe that Col. Sink would make a parachute jump on his birthday every year.
That's the kind of man you want to have as the CO of a paratrooper regiment.
Takes much more than that to lead men. Especially in combat.
It is interesting that in a Division that lost generals and had so many casualties that Sink stayed a colonel and commander of the 506 throughout the war.
General Maxwell Taylor was probably not happy with his performance during Market Garden where the 506th were the only regiment in the 101st to not achieve their objectives.
Reports are that Sink turned down promotion to General during the war because he wanted to stay with the regiment that he created. Also, Colonel is really the highest rank that actually leads men in combat, with a few rare exceptions.
@@charlesgantz5865 Yeah, in defense of Sink (whom I dislike to be honest), you could say he didn't want to get promoted to a desk job.
It seemed a division replete with phenomenal regimental staffs and battalion commanders, but seriously questionable regimental commanders. Howard Johnson (501) was a good commander, but legit psycho, the 502 commander was relieved in Normandy for being deranged, and Sink (506). When they lost their division commander pre Normandy, they had to look to 82d Airborne for his replacement.
Your points are well taken, although I think "sadistic" might be a little strong. There is no evidence that he gained pleasure from inflicting his brutal methods. I think it's a case of an officer having the right motives, but employing the wrong methods. As far as Spiers goes, he was obviously an unusually brave guy, but he also murdered POWs, so I think his right to judge anyone is suspect.
Maybe. But I think to go to such extremes you need to get some sort of satisfaction out of it. Either that or the man was on a serious power trip. You can throw Sobel into the same category.
Winters is considered the ultimate leader of men, could you see him doing something like the drumming out? Even he thought it was way over the top.
I've heard he was very able . . . .
I forget which book I read that was written by an Easy company member ... I read a few of them. They called him Bourbon Bob owing to his excessive? drinking. I got the sense that he was respected by the men from what I read.
Don't neglect The Pacific series if you have not yet watched. Much more intense, the men in the PTO faced much worse conditions IMO.
That was Ed Shames.
I have made a video on The Pacific about Eugene Sledge's time before he arrived with his unit (link below)
I will be doing a lot more in the future.
ua-cam.com/video/wSR6TT13WT0/v-deo.html
@WorldWarTruth Thanks for the link, will check it out.
Did you ever think that maybe in that time frame the name Bourbon Bob may have been a compliment? Look at all the movies from that time period and you will see all the leading men with a drink in their hand.
@@StephenLewin-cq2zy I don't doubt it was an affectionate nickname, but it was also a descriptive one by all accounts.
Well I guess I'm going to have to address this question of Gen. Sink's drinking. My father and the General were friends and he did tell me some of the stories about Sink's liquor problem. It got worse than most people know. However, he worked it out and got himself dryed out.
My dad was under his command in the 101 airborne 506 pathfinder. We need strong men like hie desperately today. Today's men are weak compared to the greatest generation.
Strength was one thing. being sadistic is another. You can be strong, hard, demanding without being sadistic. He was what we would call a toxic leader, He also encouraged toxic leaders. He reused to promote officers under him until he was forced to. He also demanded other officers to behave just like him (i.e. Sobel), He also played his officers against each other instead of having them work together. If Sobel would have at least been minimally proficient tactically he would not have relieved him of easy company
Two of my uncles, a great uncle, and several of my neighbors fought in WWII. I doubt any of them would have considered themselves the "greatest generation", certainly no more great than the men and women who served before and after them.
Having a highly specialized fighting unit is not about fair, it's about having a highly specialized fighting unit. Sobel is on my top 3 greatest Chicagoans of all time even if his contribution to winning the war was an inadvertent one. We are in middle of creating an entire generation that is adept at criticizing and nothing else of any value.
Didn't Elliot Gould portray Colonel Robert L Sink in "A Bridge Too Far "?
Yes he did, I think I corrected that in a different video. James Caan played the 82nd Major who captured Nijmegen bridge.
@@War_And_Truth isnt it Robert Redford portraying MAJ Julian Cook, CO 3/504th who did? Credits show James Caan portraying 1stSgt Dohun of F/502nd
Well for a Marinette like sink frag/snipers are bad around these here part. A forgotten little man.
Well, he just had a video done about his actions 80 years after the fact; not exactly forgotten.
Winters shouldve handed the watch in to Sink
Oh how easy it is to disrespect and degrade from the future!
The criticism is coming from the men who were there.
Kind of puts a new spin on the Sobel/NCO's situation, doesn't it? If he's ripping off patches for guys being late, he must have known how unfit for combat Sobel was going to be and so he took the opportunity to get rid of him. The NCO's got off lightly because Sink knew it.
No it doesn't. If Sink wanted to get rid of Sobel why didn't he use Sobels failures in leading field exercises to remove him from command? ''Captain Sobel you failed the field exercise at Camp Mackall for that you're being removed from command of E Company''.
@@ECJ49 Because he raised the highest rated company in the battalion? How do you remove the CO for that?
"You trained the finest group of men, but you're relieved.."
@@frankpinmtlI'm pretty sure you can remove a field commander for being incompetent in the field. I don't know of any military rules then or now that would prohibit this.
@@ECJ49 They weren't in the field though, were they? They were training in England when this happened.
Remember the whole Lipton/Winters conversation about Foxhole Norman Dyke? Winters told him he couldn't remove him, even though he was an absentee commander. But once he failed in combat, he could. Problem is, when a leader fails in combat, he gets his men killed.
@@frankpinmtl Dyke couldn't be removed because he was being protected from higher up. Politics.
Throwing someone out of the Paratroops after completing training because they were late getting back makes no sense. We were at war and needed every man. Disciplinary action, yes, but not a washout once finished with training.
There must have been more to it. For the fact that it was only one man per company probably means they could get rid of a few people the company commanders didn't like (attitude etc). Otherwise it was ridiculous and still quite cruel.
Typical officer, if they need you you’re God’s gift. If you need something you’re trash.
Colonel SInk was the perfect man to lead that regiment. His ruthless leadership was what made the 506th so legendary and was the glue that held them together through the war.
What made the 506th ''legendary'' was that they were portrayed in a HBO miniseries produced by a famous Hollywood actor and a famous Hollywood producer/director.
Good chance that regiment wasn't chosen for that depiction randomly.
He was a petty clown, and the 506 is only legendary by a Hollywood series, they were probably the least accomplished parachute regiment of the six divisional regiments in Europe. Against advice, Sink probably single-handedly blew Operation Market-Garden, leading to the needless deaths of hundreds of paratroopers.
Tyrants are poor leaders....period
@@charleshoughton525 love to see your ratings criteria on that one! C'mon 😅
I am not a military expert, but at the amateur level do think I’m pretty well read on WWII history in general and the BOB in particular. It seems a poor decision to summarily (and in an exceedingly humiliating manner) to drum several qualified paratroopers out of the 506th at a time when the US Military was still forming global strategy with the British and our other allies and when the army was still recruiting and drafting what would ultimately be a combined force of millions (with other branches). These were, as you stated, elite troops, and very considerable resources had been invested in their training. For Colonel Sink to regard them as expendable (while still stateside!) seems shortsighted and strategically wrong. IMO America needed every trooper it could muster, especially in 1942. Further, as you also pointed out, the reason many troopers returned from leave late was due to circumstances beyond their control, such as a connecting train arriving late. Should the men have been denied the opportunity to return to their families, some for possibly the last time, as to not risk reporting back to duty on time? I think not. IMO the most such paratroopers deserved was a reprimand. One topic I didn’t hear you discuss was Sink’s reaction to the NCO revolt, so vividly portrayed by the great actor (and military veteran) Dale Dye. In the series, Col. Sink is shown stating, “I ought to have you all shot. This is nothing less than an act of mutiny…”. I don’t know how historically accurate that scene is, but it does make one wonder what type of leader he was. At least from E Company’s POV it got Sobel transferred to Chilton Foliate. TY for the video.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Overall he was good for the unit. Eventually he made questionable decisions out of bad information or judgement. It angered others. But that is not his whole whole contribution. Things like extra training or patrols are minor compared to the rest of what was going on. When there is a candy bar floating in the public pool, that is all you see.
Obviously he wanted the best
So being rather strict he weeded out the unreliable
As for the marrieds its not fair on the families to be in a
Forthcoming combat situation
So singles only should have
Been enforced!
Sink passed in the 1980’s. There were no tears shed for Col. Sink!
How do you know that? Perhaps because of his training, men lived.
There was another commander in vietnam
Who may have qualified
For the same description
The hamburger hill attack
No strategic value!
Thanks Ill take a look at that. I will be doing videos on Vietnam in the future.
Sink, was out for himself firstk, and then the men. There is never a time to denigrate men for no factual reason. He did it time and again to effect his exalted ego.
Do you happen to have any information on the jump of the demo team into Bastone? I can't seem to find a record that the jump was credited as a combat jump in Army records.
I just did a video on it
ua-cam.com/video/nBKAOrgDULw/v-deo.html
General George S. Patton, Jr, famously stated that “a pint of sweat will save a gallon of blood.” Calling Sink a sadist is silly shows a misunderstanding of psychology. Did he take sexual pleasure in hard training? Speaking of hard training, have you ever spoken somebody who's been to ranger school or the Q Course?
Well I'm not a psychologist but that Patton quote has nothing to do with Sink stepping over the line. If the men of the company (including Winters) thought he was wrong then that's good enough for me. And yes I do think Sink enjoyed wielding the punish stick.