First and foremost, thank you Chris for the review. I now understand why people don't like the looks of the 650s. If you have a couple of hours, look up the videos of the mp4-12c during testing, and McLaren after many years of not producing a vehicle. McLaren had MASSIVE shoes to fill with the F1 as the benchmark, and it started with the 12C. The 12c blindsided the super car market beating cars on the drag and in the track, ON THEIR FIRST ATTEMPT. They also tied the 458 Italia at the Nurburgring. After the 12C, McLaren started working on the P1, which is arguably the best super/hyper car to date. The LaFerrari isn't being tested probably due to Ferrari's request. Last time Ferrari requested that, it was because the F40 was faster and better than the F50. Make your own conclusions. You can DAILY the P1, drive it in full electric, oh and if you wanted to lap the Nordschleife in under 7 minutes, you can :). The 650s has 75% 12C parts and 25% new parts. All the new improvements have been implemented due to the research and development of the P1. The 650s is 75% 12c, 25% more or less, P1. Lets be honest, who doesn't want the front of the P1? You cannot buy a P1, so here is a car with improvements taken from the P1, with the P1 front end. Well play McLaren, well played. 10 of 10. Lastly, if you by the spyder, you can drop the automatic hard top. yes automatic drop top in a car that will beat a Ferrari F12 and a 911 Turbo S. Let that sink in. If you don't like the car's looks, well that your opinion. But simply taking looks and not looking at the history and engineering, you are not quite getting it.
The 650's chassis itself its a piece of Engineering artwork... Looks quite simple but a lot of design and advanced engineering is put in it...Simply Beautiful...
Nearly all the reviews I have watched, read and heard is that all of the McLarens, 12c, 650s, F1, P1 are better than their Ferrari counterparts. Further more, this company is making better road cars after only 3 years in business than Ferrari and they have had 80 years! Oh, if your contemplating leaving an insulting trolling message first have a thought about how people will equate that to the level of your intelligence!
Mclaren f1 was Mclarens first car, introduced in 1992. How are they only 3 years in the business?Also they helped DaimlerChrysler for all the different types of slr's since 1999. Also they have been active in F1 since 1966. Now, most mclarens will be better performance cars than any ferrari, but, like most people who've driven them both say, a ferrari is just more fun. A ferrari is a Ibiza beach party, a modern Mclaren is an office party. A ferrari has more ''soul'' People who buy one choose with their heart, people who buy a mclaren choose with their brain.
...every single review I have watched, read or listened too has said they would take the P1 over LaFerrari. All the other cars produced previous to the 12c have been one-off special projects, they have only been producing road going production based cars for the last three years, fact!
muppetnumpty65 The ferraris are the best supercars, but the mclaren's are the best car's . Take your conclusions with this, and this is a fact . I love mclaren, but they are very clinical if you kniw what I mean . Ferraris are wild, ferraris have soul, while the mclaren are a tamed beast.
Or change that, If I could choose any car ever, I'd be debating about a 250 gto or a 250gt california. And I honistly think, most car enthousiast will pick something like that over any Mclaren.
Ugh. He's doing that thing when people from companies omit the word "the" when talking about their products. I hate that. Sounds so pretentious. Your car isn't a person, it's a product. A thing. It's the 650S, not just "650S". No one has ever referred to stuff like that, and they never will. You're not convincing anyone and you're just making yourself sound like a tit. Stop it.
***** That was the whole point of what I said. Mclaren and Ferrari cater to people with different tastes. That is arguable. Nobody with half an ounce of common sense would buy a car based on objective observations. There is a reason why not everybody is driving the same car in their respective price points.
***** You explained why someone would like one car over another, yet failed to see the point that this isn't about why someone would like a car, but why someone would like a Mclaren or a Ferrari. Mclaren, while not neglecting a driver's emotions, is about the numbers and the straight out performance. This is Mclaren's ideal. People may find passion in this ideal, they may find that they love cars that cater to this ideal. Ferrari, while not neglecting numbers and performance, is about the thrill of the experience. This is their ideal. People may find a car they love in that. You can find proof of this in people who have driven both cars and the praises they have for these cars. The 12C would not stop getting raving reviews about it's sheer speed and the technicality of the way it drives. The 458 would not stop getting raving reviews about how exciting and on its toes it feels to drive. Both ideals can be counted as passionate, though both ideals can be downplayed. You can never account for 100% of buyers' and fans' reasons for liking either car, but you can generalize a majority. I'd like you to find a Mclaren fan with any sense boasting about how the 12C is more exciting to drive, or a Ferrari fan with any sense boasting about how the 458 is faster than the 12C. And I have to laugh at the defensiveness of the 911 owner you spoke to. Coming from an avid 911 fan and a 996 owner: he is delusional in thinking the old 911's are as sorted as he thinks they are. Old 911's are incredibly exciting to drive, and I love them to death. Are they very communicative? Yes. Are they tail happy and dangerous? You bet they are. It's part of the charm of old 911s. To say they are as sorted as modern supercars is delusional and ignorant.
I'm with Chris, not a fan of the new nose. I wasn't a fan of the 12c nose, but it grew on me. Now, I prefer the 12c nose the the 650s. can you order a 650s with a 12c front bumper? lol
CHRIS FUCKING HARRIS. the only nigga on the planet that drift supercars that is fucking expensive as fk in a review :). deserves all the recognition from youtube, media etc. all the other people drive the car too boring and doesnt give us the true meaning of the car.
kraenk12 Although he has referred to himself (in the 12C video) as a "little brown man" :) Absolutely love Chris, humble, funny and fantastic behind the wheel of a car. Legend!
It's insane to think how far cars have come in the last 15 years or so. The Lambo Gallardo produced 560 bhp, while the big Murcielago was putting out 640bhp. Now we have this 650s, which is essentially a Huracan(Gallardo) rival, but it's producing more power than the "daddy" Lambo was making a few years ago.
You're spot on there, I was a lil iffy about it but it does grow on you and in the flesh and the right colour it does look lush, don't think it looks better than a 458 though?!
This video is almost 4 years old. If you look over Chris' left shoulder during the tech briefing you will see what looks to be 720S amongst the photos. McLaren is way ahead of the curve.
F1 is self explanatory. MP4 is what the F1 team codes their cars as with each season's revision or design. P1 is Position 1, which is more F1 nerd stuff. 650S is hardly any different than what N number of manufacturers do when they make something "a bit better".
barcode Other than the Germans, does anyone else use the same scheme for their model line, or in the case of a tiny numbers manufacturer in the middle of a field in England, their few models?
PulletSurprise F1 cant be argued with, it was the first name but then as barcode said. why change the naming scheme? it could be like Nissan GTR just change the year number at the end of each model. and if its a different generation car such as P1 well then it deserves different prefix but the same year suffix can be applied at the end. F1-1992 F1(MP4)-2011 P1-2012 F1(650s)-2013 etc...
But the F1 was a spare no expense realization of the ultimate driver's car. The MP4 was a "every damn day" sports car with a ludicrous performance envelope that any old goonie can wheel around and not look like a hand full of thumbs. The P1 is what the F1 would have been if it were developed by Gordon Murray first son in the year 2030. And the 650S is just an "extra" version of the MP4-12C. They're all different enough to be unrelated. Especially since there are probably only a handful of people who were at McLaren when they were all rolled out.
No doubt a great car, but to me it just looks so generic and boring. It has no soul whatsoever. If it sounds like a 12C in person, then it's not that special on that front either. Ferrari 458 Speciale will dominate in comparison reviews even more than 458 dominated against the 12C.
People who obsess over the styling of any Mclaren are missing the point. Its not a Lamborhini or a Zonda or an Aston Martin and it never will be (all of which I love for a different reason). Mclaren have won 182 F1 Grand Prix, they're the best designers and engineers in the world. If you want the best possible road car technology, there's no one with a better CV. That being said, this is what the 12C should have been from launch.
I have to 10000000000000000000% agree with you that a car company that was born on a race tack they know how to build and design cars also get the power out
Seth Reeves lol yea they are zonda Revolution vs the agera R competing in speed (0-60) (full mile) (0-400) and pricing, ferrari tried to come in but laferrari is suppose to be the "only" competitor because its hybrid... weird if ya ask me
no doubt its a masterpiece, but I still can't help the feeling that Maca has lost its "soul" ever sinds Gordon Murray left .... this 650S don't hit any "nerves" with me, and even with the P1, I think Porsche with its 918 Spyder outclassed Maca ad its own game ....
The 12C was simply too dull and aseptic, eclipsed by iconic legends (911 GT3 RS), screamo identity (Ferrari) or brute presence (Lambo). Even the Lexus LFA had more 'soul'. This update is great and much needed. I am actually considering the purchase of the coupé version in lime green with black wheels and optional exhaust.
Ahah ah ah ahahahh, the 12c aseptic? Drive it to the limit and come back to say this shit again, probably the most impressive car i have driven, largely better than a 458, the GT3 RS is so cool, like a real race car, but the 12c in track is really impressive, you are crazy to say that.
Edward Blake You obviously didn't get what I said. The outstanding engineering and dynamics are there but its generic design, especially the front, and relatively muted sound lacked the powerful presence/identity of its rivals. The 650S is addressing this to a large extent in my opinion.
Thanks for doing this whilst feeling so grotty Chris, I think I speak for all the viewers when I say we appreciate it. Interesting opinions there too. I really don't know what to make of them, you've left me a bit confused. I do know that I want a 650S though!
All these negative comments. Why? I liked the look of the old car but the new one looks great. Like the F1 it is neat and thats what matters. This is becoming a great brand and this is the FOURTH. REPEAT. FOURTH Road Car they've ever made while ferrari have made Over twenty times that! The Aesthetics will finesse with time (F1 cars aren't designed to look beautiful.) If you are british and dont like the looks then put your criticisn in a more constructive manner and suggest not attack. Im fairly certain someone there at mclaren is trauling through the you tube videos naybe checking what is said......for my money i'd place a body coloured blade following the lower contour of the lights and to make the side grills on either side of the front grill look a little bit less huge! Whilst still allowing for its aerodynnamic effect. Otherwise praise where it is due for a remarkable 100% british engineering-led company that is manufacturing and exporting a quality product that is increasing in numbers every month.
So which one was Chris actually driving? The Y300 MCL or the Y400 MCL He gets in the Y300 and filming shows Y400? THen we see Y222 MCL. Perhaps Chris can't actually drift well enough ;-)
Also prefer the nose of the 12C, though this one more distinct and the shape of the headlights elicits the trekkie-style McLaren logo. Now would be a great time to be thinking about picking up a used 12C, for those of us who prefer the understated front end look.
the 12c out accelerated, out handled, out braked, out top ended oh and did we mention out ran the 458's times at every track they have both been tested...I have found the 458 ugly since its debut and like the 12c's subtle and elligant style. soo wheres the problem here?
it was a better car on paper but the fact is every person that drove both said the 458 was the better car. Unless you've drive both on a track I think I'd rate their opinions over yours.
funny is car and driver, motor trend, and road and track..don't forget top gear UK all chose the 12 over the 458 as the better car. top gear picked the 458 as more fun to drive
Modern cars are approaching perfection. Great aero, extreme power, great traction and grip, nearly perfected breaks and suspension. Does this one need more than 650hp or be even lighter? Only a handful of drivers can actually use its capabilities, on a racetrack at that. Where to go next? What to improve, and more importantly, why to improve anything? It's already excellent and far beyond actual use cases for such speed and power.
Hydrogen doesn't make much sense. It's dangerous and requires much more energy to be extracted than gives back. Pure electric cars are the future, we just need to brainstorm battery tech a bit more.
theDigited Both have their advantages. With hydrogen you have more energy in a smaller space, plus ability to blend the refueling with current infrastructure. Just like electricity for batteries, you can create hydrogen be it from windpower, water etc. clean energy sources. Recently there was a breaktrough in France on creating hydrogen very efficiently, that could be major in energy production in general and later on trickle down to cars. At the same time battery tech is moving in great speed. Batteries are by no means perfect. There's a lot of lost energy from batteries in cold climates, that is much of the western world. Electric cars have the advantage of being out now and realistically speaking, hydrogen could truly be widespread, as in cheap 20 years from this. It's simply current and is being poured money from all directions. Be it car manufacturers or tech companies. By that time it is anybodies guess will hydrogen be able to offer us something pure electric cars can't.
Chris, how would you say this car compares to the R8 v10 PLUS? Do you think the huge price gap is worth it? As for driving enjoinment, is the R8 any good compared to the 650s?
With the new model the v10 plus is in the same league pretty much... Tho im not really a fan of the new one... So i prefer not to compare these two anymore since i'll be very biased towards the 650s...
I want to comment on who much the filmography, audo, and presentation of these have improved since the start of DRIVE. These are absolutely amazing videos to watch. Thanks for your continuous improvements. Still think Cris Harris is the best part of the Drive Network... Cheers.
Torrey B iam speaking realistically the people who buy these super cars are not going to feel the difference its mostly to show off and drive to the market not the track.
Yea I really don't know how Mclaren managed to approve this car. Merging the rear and front of two different models and calling it a new model. It's fugly. I'd take a 12C over this any day. It seems extremely amateurish for a company of such pedigree to not actually design the body for a new car. I'm so glad they are still making the 12C along side the 650S. Hilariously, if they didn't, I bet 12C values would actually not depreciate much!
MP4-12C looked better, this P1 style is just not for me. Don't really know what people (like Clarkson) didn't like about the shape of the '12C, if I would own one I would park it right in the middle of my livingroom and just look at it all day long, forget about television... I love it!
You, Mr. Harris, should deffinately have your own TV-show. I'm looking forward to your reviews every week. You deliver as usual. Thank you. Never stop.
Mclaren made this 650S in response to Ferrari's Speciale. I'm afraid it lacks the appeal of Ferrari again, just like 12C did in comparison to 458. Instead of mixing the look of 2 different cars why could they not make a new look? One with a bit more appeal? Mclaren is so focused on performance they forget the other aspects of what makes a super car appealing.
natan3002s If it's ONLY what's under the shell then it's not a super car and shouldn't be marketed as a super car. Then buyers could buy track cars that are much cheaper for track use and a German power sedan for fast transport in comfort. It still would be for less than half the price. People spend these kinda of money on stuff, anything this expensive, that are different then everything else, that are unique. You don't want to buy a Swiss watch for $10 grand with a true Swiss engineering inside but that looks like a Casio on the outside. What is the point? At these prices the design is as an important part as the rest of the car. Regarding the inside I think Ferrari's master piece, the 4,5L NA engine that produces 600hp is more appealing than Mclaren's 3,8 twin turbo.
What is wrong with the modern auto-industry? Why can't car manufacturers be more inventive and creative when naming cars? The only ones that actually are named seem to be american, like the Mustang, Firebird, Corvette, Camaro, Charger etc.
Nick Linacre out of those names only SLS, F-Type ...... and may be R8 sounds like a serious car. the long numbers after model name feel like some old Nokia mobile series that you cant remember the sequence of. Also Farrari is just as messed up with its naming.
I do like McLaren. The 12C is a nice car. The P1 is an engineering masterpiece. This new 650S just seems a slightly tuned 12C. If I had a choice between a Ferrari and McLaren, it would be a Ferrari. They look stunning, they sound superb and has a totally different character than the McLaren's. For instance, the F12 Berlinetta. A massive naturally aspirated 6.3L V12. 8750 RPM. Ferrari have mapped the gearbox to 'surge/spike' the engine revs upon downshifts instead of a regular downshift, which results in a big V12 bark that keeps you wanting more. The Ferrari 458. 4.5L Naturally aspirated, 9000 RPM. A soulful engine note, and a unique acceleration feel that rushes down your spine unlike any other supercar. McLaren have focused too much on the engineering, rather turning it into something special. (Not the perfect example I know) - Top Gear Season 20 Episode 3. James, Richard and Jeremy all said out of an Audi R8, McLaren 12C or 458 Spider they would have the 458, because it's got that extra something special. James owns a Ferrari 458. BUT at the end of the day, it's all PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
i have to say i completely agree with you, Mclaren's are extremely focused on performance but they sound and look not even remotely close as good as a Ferrari or a Lambo that is just honestly, well at least imo
Great car, and it looks fine but honestly the design just seems lazy. They've just put the P1 front on the 12C body and called it a day. As car enthusiasts you expect a new design to shock you you and make you go wow that's amazing like the 458 did when it took over from the 430. It's just a little underwhelming
I love the P1, but seeing that new front end on a 12C (Basically) just doesn't look right... From the front you're expecting one car, from the back you're expecting another... and it's neither. Oh well.
Ferrari 458 owners don't cry often, but when you've overpaid an Italian sportscar that now get's completely destroyed by a similar priced, more quailty car. Even i would cry if it was my money xD I also love how terrible orange cars look overall, but when it comes to Mclaren it looks better than anything :D
Great Film.. sorry you're not too well, trust things are better now. The lergy was probably brought on by wearing those berluddy awful jeans my man.. they were shockers. That sadly is what you get when you let your womenfolk buy clothes for you. If they say.. "they're all the rage.." run for it.! Laughs WF
Faster than the F1 & that cost over 2 million quid, to me see it looks different at the front but not really any better than 12 c, yes it is boring comparing the 458 with 12c or 650s because everyone says the same that the Ferrari just gives you more emotion more excitement ect, I'd still have the Ferrari 458 & that's why I'm going to book a track day in the 458 mind I'd still like a go in 650s
What is Mclaren thinking??? a cheaper P1, with the butt of a 12c, with a price to compete against the 12c, though it isn't prettier than the 12c, yet imitative of the P1? You would drive 12c and P1 owners mad - you got the autistic love child the P1 and 12c gave birth to after they made love upside down
Sorry I'd rather have the 12C, cheaper and better looking. If you're going to facelift a vehicle, dont use the same front end of the P1 and leave the back virtually untouched, its just ugly.
The 12c looked so good aesthetically, and the p1 looked even better. But when you cut and paste the p1 fascia on the 12c it just doesn't work. I'm sorry but it just doesn't work McLaren
Its hideous, all modern mclarens are. I prefer the 458 (cliché I know), even more so the 911 gt3. As an absolute top of everything though, it would be the aston martin vantage v12, that car has more drama than anything else for sale on the road.
This was a very disappointing review , Chris is sick and the whole tone of the entire segment was that of malaise and the weather made it even worse..Worst Chris Harris review ever..He should have just not done it, because this is destined to be the standard that the other cars will have to meet
Love the new front end. Seems more impressive than a 12C as well. McLaren really is becoming my favorite super car brand
The 12C will always have a special place in my heart, and I will miss it.
First and foremost, thank you Chris for the review.
I now understand why people don't like the looks of the 650s. If you have a couple of hours, look up the videos of the mp4-12c during testing, and McLaren after many years of not producing a vehicle. McLaren had MASSIVE shoes to fill with the F1 as the benchmark, and it started with the 12C.
The 12c blindsided the super car market beating cars on the drag and in the track, ON THEIR FIRST ATTEMPT. They also tied the 458 Italia at the Nurburgring.
After the 12C, McLaren started working on the P1, which is arguably the best super/hyper car to date. The LaFerrari isn't being tested probably due to Ferrari's request. Last time Ferrari requested that, it was because the F40 was faster and better than the F50. Make your own conclusions. You can DAILY the P1, drive it in full electric, oh and if you wanted to lap the Nordschleife in under 7 minutes, you can :).
The 650s has 75% 12C parts and 25% new parts. All the new improvements have been implemented due to the research and development of the P1. The 650s is 75% 12c, 25% more or less, P1. Lets be honest, who doesn't want the front of the P1? You cannot buy a P1, so here is a car with improvements taken from the P1, with the P1 front end. Well play McLaren, well played. 10 of 10. Lastly, if you by the spyder, you can drop the automatic hard top. yes automatic drop top in a car that will beat a Ferrari F12 and a 911 Turbo S. Let that sink in.
If you don't like the car's looks, well that your opinion. But simply taking looks and not looking at the history and engineering, you are not quite getting it.
The 650's chassis itself its a piece of Engineering artwork... Looks quite simple but a lot of design and advanced engineering is put in it...Simply Beautiful...
Chris I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one that thinks the 12C is better looking.
This P1 look-alike front is just weird.
half 12 c half p1, if the p1 and the 12 C had a baby this is the result
Nearly all the reviews I have watched, read and heard is that all of the McLarens, 12c, 650s, F1, P1 are better than their Ferrari counterparts. Further more, this company is making better road cars after only 3 years in business than Ferrari and they have had 80 years! Oh, if your contemplating leaving an insulting trolling message first have a thought about how people will equate that to the level of your intelligence!
laferrari is better than the p1 in performance, especially the high speed acceleration but i agree with u for the rest
Mclaren f1 was Mclarens first car, introduced in 1992. How are they only 3 years in the business?Also they helped DaimlerChrysler for all the different types of slr's since 1999. Also they have been active in F1 since 1966.
Now, most mclarens will be better performance cars than any ferrari, but, like most people who've driven them both say, a ferrari is just more fun. A ferrari is a Ibiza beach party, a modern Mclaren is an office party. A ferrari has more ''soul'' People who buy one choose with their heart, people who buy a mclaren choose with their brain.
...every single review I have watched, read or listened too has said they would take the P1 over LaFerrari. All the other cars produced previous to the 12c have been one-off special projects, they have only been producing road going production based cars for the last three years, fact!
muppetnumpty65 The ferraris are the best supercars, but the mclaren's are the best car's .
Take your conclusions with this, and this is a fact .
I love mclaren, but they are very clinical if you kniw what I mean . Ferraris are wild, ferraris have soul, while the mclaren are a tamed beast.
Or change that, If I could choose any car ever, I'd be debating about a 250 gto or a 250gt california. And I honistly think, most car enthousiast will pick something like that over any Mclaren.
Excellent as always from Harris.
An honest review goes a long way. Some of those "canned" reviews almost turn you off to the product. Thanks Chris & SlashDrive!
***** yeah this guy is honest and he is rarely sugar-coating shit and not biased like that one guy from autocar magazine!
Fuck Top Gear!
ollie lanch Fuck you!
He actually is now hosting Top Gear
prefer the MP4-12C
Even when sick you still produce one hell of a video!Feel better my friend and please keep your videos coming!
I agree with Chris, I like the look of the 12C better. I dislike this front end
I never liked the front on 12c, it looked so... normal, not supercar-like.
Prefer 650 much more although pitty it's just a copy of P1
5:22 when your girl is talking and you put it in her mouth
lmao
The rear doesn't match the front. I think its smart for McLaren to keep 12c as open option.
Ugh. He's doing that thing when people from companies omit the word "the" when talking about their products. I hate that. Sounds so pretentious. Your car isn't a person, it's a product. A thing. It's the 650S, not just "650S". No one has ever referred to stuff like that, and they never will. You're not convincing anyone and you're just making yourself sound like a tit. Stop it.
What does a "tit", sound like?
i thought i was the only one it annoys me so much to the point were i won't listen. It is an it even if it had a personality.
These things have their own soul.
I have waited for this comment for a very long time now. Turns out it's been out there all along. Good man, @Scrustle
@@HFLanciaStratos humans don't have souls why would an inanimate product
12C front was OK, it's the horrible rear what they should change.
By my calculations, I have enough money to buy one in 35 years.
We gotta build a team
JKOK Gaming With a minecraft profile picture? I think not XD
***** 15? More like 7. I play games and all...but to have one as my profile pic is a bit over the top xD My bet is between 6-12 years old xDDD
+Mikael K
I can sell my house and by one. But I don't think if can toe a caravan
Jon Jennings buy* tow*
Want a prettier McLaren? Buy a Ferrari. Want the best drivers car? Buy a McLaren? Simples!
If you want the numbers, get the Mclaren, if you want the experience, get the Ferrari. That's the individual appeal of each car.
***** That was the whole point of what I said. Mclaren and Ferrari cater to people with different tastes.
That is arguable. Nobody with half an ounce of common sense would buy a car based on objective observations. There is a reason why not everybody is driving the same car in their respective price points.
***** You explained why someone would like one car over another, yet failed to see the point that this isn't about why someone would like a car, but why someone would like a Mclaren or a Ferrari. Mclaren, while not neglecting a driver's emotions, is about the numbers and the straight out performance. This is Mclaren's ideal. People may find passion in this ideal, they may find that they love cars that cater to this ideal. Ferrari, while not neglecting numbers and performance, is about the thrill of the experience. This is their ideal. People may find a car they love in that. You can find proof of this in people who have driven both cars and the praises they have for these cars. The 12C would not stop getting raving reviews about it's sheer speed and the technicality of the way it drives. The 458 would not stop getting raving reviews about how exciting and on its toes it feels to drive. Both ideals can be counted as passionate, though both ideals can be downplayed. You can never account for 100% of buyers' and fans' reasons for liking either car, but you can generalize a majority. I'd like you to find a Mclaren fan with any sense boasting about how the 12C is more exciting to drive, or a Ferrari fan with any sense boasting about how the 458 is faster than the 12C.
And I have to laugh at the defensiveness of the 911 owner you spoke to. Coming from an avid 911 fan and a 996 owner: he is delusional in thinking the old 911's are as sorted as he thinks they are. Old 911's are incredibly exciting to drive, and I love them to death. Are they very communicative? Yes. Are they tail happy and dangerous? You bet they are. It's part of the charm of old 911s. To say they are as sorted as modern supercars is delusional and ignorant.
*****
***** lambo*
I've been waiting for a new Chris Harris video for ages.... every Wednesday waiting like a kid for Santa on Xmas!
I'm with Chris, not a fan of the new nose. I wasn't a fan of the 12c nose, but it grew on me. Now, I prefer the 12c nose the the 650s. can you order a 650s with a 12c front bumper? lol
Looks good, just think the 12c looks a tiny big better
CHRIS FUCKING HARRIS.
the only nigga on the planet that drift supercars that is fucking expensive as fk in a review :). deserves all the recognition from youtube, media etc.
all the other people drive the car too boring and doesnt give us the true meaning of the car.
except chris is not a nigga or whatever you call him
kraenk12 Although he has referred to himself (in the 12C video) as a "little brown man" :) Absolutely love Chris, humble, funny and fantastic behind the wheel of a car. Legend!
1061shrink1061 Haha good one. He sure has a nice teint :)
Love the technical talks at the beginning of the videos lately!
No screaming in a Chris Harris video was actually quite pleasant.
who at mclaren thought these were proper wheels??? they look like cheap ricer rims :(
It's insane to think how far cars have come in the last 15 years or so. The Lambo Gallardo produced 560 bhp, while the big Murcielago was putting out 640bhp. Now we have this 650s, which is essentially a Huracan(Gallardo) rival, but it's producing more power than the "daddy" Lambo was making a few years ago.
Mclaren logic: Let the back stay the exact same and take the front of the other car in our range to make a "completely" new car :D
Back isn't exactly the same tho.
Love the rolling chassis portion of the video, very cool! Not sure I like the exterior facelift however :o
id buy that over a 458
When I first saw this I was like nothing really special over the 12c but actually it's growing on me. I'm starting to like it more and more : D
You're spot on there, I was a lil iffy about it but it does grow on you and in the flesh and the right colour it does look lush, don't think it looks better than a 458 though?!
No. The speciale looks pretty insane and awesome :)
This video is almost 4 years old. If you look over Chris' left shoulder during the tech briefing you will see what looks to be 720S amongst the photos. McLaren is way ahead of the curve.
i dont understand what is Mclearn thinking then naming these cars.
F1 - MP4 - P1 - 650S?
even for internal code names they are terrible!
F1 is self explanatory. MP4 is what the F1 team codes their cars as with each season's revision or design. P1 is Position 1, which is more F1 nerd stuff. 650S is hardly any different than what N number of manufacturers do when they make something "a bit better".
PulletSurprise ***** But why change the scheme of the naming with every model? Pick one scheme and go with it.
barcode Other than the Germans, does anyone else use the same scheme for their model line, or in the case of a tiny numbers manufacturer in the middle of a field in England, their few models?
PulletSurprise F1 cant be argued with, it was the first name but then as barcode said. why change the naming scheme?
it could be like Nissan GTR just change the year number at the end of each model.
and if its a different generation car such as P1 well then it deserves different prefix but the same year suffix can be applied at the end.
F1-1992
F1(MP4)-2011
P1-2012
F1(650s)-2013
etc...
But the F1 was a spare no expense realization of the ultimate driver's car. The MP4 was a "every damn day" sports car with a ludicrous performance envelope that any old goonie can wheel around and not look like a hand full of thumbs. The P1 is what the F1 would have been if it were developed by Gordon Murray first son in the year 2030.
And the 650S is just an "extra" version of the MP4-12C. They're all different enough to be unrelated. Especially since there are probably only a handful of people who were at McLaren when they were all rolled out.
Jesus, that's how he drives when he's " under the weather"? Good man.
Well done mclaren the new version of the 12c looks to be a good contender
I think the 12c looks better, woulda actually been nice if they kept more of the front end from the 12c
I've already got some nostalgia for the camera work and great soundtrack of old CH Drive vids :)
Drive please give us more in car footage/drivers perspective with Chris driving on the road courses flat out. He's great at what he does, show us!
Shooting star travels roughly 22500 to 157500 miles/hr. Ron lied.
No doubt a great car, but to me it just looks so generic and boring. It has no soul whatsoever. If it sounds like a 12C in person, then it's not that special on that front either. Ferrari 458 Speciale will dominate in comparison reviews even more than 458 dominated against the 12C.
Chris, those green New Balance and rolled up jeans is a massive fashion faux pas!
Always look forward to Chris Harris' reviews, could make a 114i sound interesting.
People who obsess over the styling of any Mclaren are missing the point. Its not a Lamborhini or a Zonda or an Aston Martin and it never will be (all of which I love for a different reason). Mclaren have won 182 F1 Grand Prix, they're the best designers and engineers in the world. If you want the best possible road car technology, there's no one with a better CV. That being said, this is what the 12C should have been from launch.
I have to 10000000000000000000% agree with you that a car company that was born on a race tack they know how to build and design cars also get the power out
dont put a lamborghini or austin martin with a Zonda....
zonda and koenig are on different leagues lol
plasticrunner but zonda and koenigsegge is not even in the same legs...
Seth Reeves lol yea they are zonda Revolution vs the agera R competing in speed (0-60) (full mile) (0-400) and pricing, ferrari tried to come in but laferrari is suppose to be the "only" competitor because its hybrid... weird if ya ask me
And ferrari have won 221 F1 races
It's funny how European manufacturers are now realizing Torque curves are important.
That nice drift at 12:58 though.
no doubt its a masterpiece, but I still can't help the feeling that Maca has lost its "soul" ever sinds Gordon Murray left .... this 650S don't hit any "nerves" with me, and even with the P1, I think Porsche with its 918 Spyder outclassed Maca ad its own game ....
Im dying to see the 458 refresh now.
458 speciale?
You already did it's called the "Speciale" and that was the LAST 458..All future Ferrari's will be twin turbocharged
Or what Jeremy would say 458 "special needs"
dedicated to his craft! Even working when you sick, I guess its that or miss out! Great vid as always.
The 12C was simply too dull and aseptic, eclipsed by iconic legends (911 GT3 RS), screamo identity (Ferrari) or brute presence (Lambo). Even the Lexus LFA had more 'soul'. This update is great and much needed. I am actually considering the purchase of the coupé version in lime green with black wheels and optional exhaust.
Ahah ah ah ahahahh, the 12c aseptic? Drive it to the limit and come back to say this shit again, probably the most impressive car i have driven, largely better than a 458, the GT3 RS is so cool, like a real race car, but the 12c in track is really impressive, you are crazy to say that.
Edward Blake You obviously didn't get what I said. The outstanding engineering and dynamics are there but its generic design, especially the front, and relatively muted sound lacked the powerful presence/identity of its rivals. The 650S is addressing this to a large extent in my opinion.
Thanks for doing this whilst feeling so grotty Chris, I think I speak for all the viewers when I say we appreciate it. Interesting opinions there too. I really don't know what to make of them, you've left me a bit confused. I do know that I want a 650S though!
All these negative comments. Why? I liked the look of the old car but the new one looks great. Like the F1 it is neat and thats what matters. This is becoming a great brand and this is the FOURTH. REPEAT. FOURTH Road Car they've ever made while ferrari have made Over twenty times that! The Aesthetics will finesse with time (F1 cars aren't designed to look beautiful.) If you are british and dont like the looks then put your criticisn in a more constructive manner and suggest not attack. Im fairly certain someone there at mclaren is trauling through the you tube videos naybe checking what is said......for my money i'd place a body coloured blade following the lower contour of the lights and to make the side grills on either side of the front grill look a little bit less huge! Whilst still allowing for its aerodynnamic effect. Otherwise praise where it is due for a remarkable 100% british engineering-led company that is manufacturing and exporting a quality product that is increasing in numbers every month.
So which one was Chris actually driving? The Y300 MCL or the Y400 MCL He gets in the Y300 and filming shows Y400? THen we see Y222 MCL. Perhaps Chris can't actually drift well enough ;-)
i think Chris harris is the stig of topgear
Also prefer the nose of the 12C, though this one more distinct and the shape of the headlights elicits the trekkie-style McLaren logo.
Now would be a great time to be thinking about picking up a used 12C, for those of us who prefer the understated front end look.
While not as obvious, the McLaren logo is also incorporated into the 12C's headlights. ascarz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mcmp44.jpg
and the 12c wiped the floor with the 458 IMO it was also better looking
fuck off are you kidding?
the 12c out accelerated, out handled, out braked, out top ended oh and did we mention out ran the 458's times at every track they have both been tested...I have found the 458 ugly since its debut and like the 12c's subtle and elligant style. soo wheres the problem here?
illiterate confirmed
it was a better car on paper but the fact is every person that drove both said the 458 was the better car. Unless you've drive both on a track I think I'd rate their opinions over yours.
funny is car and driver, motor trend, and road and track..don't forget top gear UK all chose the 12 over the 458 as the better car. top gear picked the 458 as more fun to drive
Modern cars are approaching perfection. Great aero, extreme power, great traction and grip, nearly perfected breaks and suspension.
Does this one need more than 650hp or be even lighter? Only a handful of drivers can actually use its capabilities, on a racetrack at that.
Where to go next? What to improve, and more importantly, why to improve anything? It's already excellent and far beyond actual use cases for such speed and power.
They'll achieve perfection when they run on hydrogen, further improving the performance, and reducing the cost. That is perfection.
Hydrogen doesn't make much sense. It's dangerous and requires much more energy to be extracted than gives back. Pure electric cars are the future, we just need to brainstorm battery tech a bit more.
theDigited Both have their advantages. With hydrogen you have more energy in a smaller space, plus ability to blend the refueling with current infrastructure. Just like electricity for batteries, you can create hydrogen be it from windpower, water etc. clean energy sources. Recently there was a breaktrough in France on creating hydrogen very efficiently, that could be major in energy production in general and later on trickle down to cars.
At the same time battery tech is moving in great speed. Batteries are by no means perfect. There's a lot of lost energy from batteries in cold climates, that is much of the western world.
Electric cars have the advantage of being out now and realistically speaking, hydrogen could truly be widespread, as in cheap 20 years from this. It's simply current and is being poured money from all directions. Be it car manufacturers or tech companies.
By that time it is anybodies guess will hydrogen be able to offer us something pure electric cars can't.
Chris, how would you say this car compares to the R8 v10 PLUS? Do you think the huge price gap is worth it? As for driving enjoinment, is the R8 any good compared to the 650s?
Its not the r8 is at a lower league, even the v10plus
With the new model the v10 plus is in the same league pretty much... Tho im not really a fan of the new one... So i prefer not to compare these two anymore since i'll be very biased towards the 650s...
Johnny P. Go watch 911 turbo s vs r8 v10 plus. You will then know how bad the v10 plus is you think its good but it really really is bad
Johnny P. 540s vs v10 plus are about the same price, 145k vs 137.5k i think
Johnny P. 602hp in the audi though more than mclaren but obviously that isn't the only trade off
Recycled front of a P1 and recycled rear of a 12C, for that much money I'd want a design that had at least a tiny bit of effort put in.
I hope someone lends a 458 Speciale to you in a near future, Chris... i know i would if i had one. :)
This car and Chris Harris are amazing
I want to comment on who much the filmography, audo, and presentation of these have improved since the start of DRIVE. These are absolutely amazing videos to watch. Thanks for your continuous improvements. Still think Cris Harris is the best part of the Drive Network... Cheers.
only 10 mph slower than the p1 but half the price
hah, way more too it than that. it's not all about speed.
Plus, it is far cheaper than half the price of the P1.
P1 is more extreme
Torrey B iam speaking realistically the people who buy these super cars are not going to feel the difference its mostly to show off and drive to the market not the track.
It's quite a different experience.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
The front brake discs are massive!
Great video as usual! Please add or make a separate video with your in car. It was interesting to se how the car reacted to your inputs.
Yea I really don't know how Mclaren managed to approve this car. Merging the rear and front of two different models and calling it a new model. It's fugly. I'd take a 12C over this any day. It seems extremely amateurish for a company of such pedigree to not actually design the body for a new car. I'm so glad they are still making the 12C along side the 650S. Hilariously, if they didn't, I bet 12C values would actually not depreciate much!
It doesn't give me that.. WOW I want that car NOW! feeling.. ):
McLaren isn't really a WOW or emotional manufacture, They are all about "state of art" computer driven technology.
Jonathan Alerte you should watch the videos about McLaren's factory, if you watch those and dont "WOW" you got serious issues.
sorry but this design totally ruins the coherend design of the 12 C. not fish not meat. not likeable. sorry mclaren
Those wheels under that body leave me underwhelmed.
You don't buy a Mclaren for the wheels...
MP4-12C looked better, this P1 style is just not for me.
Don't really know what people (like Clarkson) didn't like about the shape of the '12C, if I would own one I would park it right in the middle of my livingroom and just look at it all day long, forget about television... I love it!
12C's nose was a little plain. This is certainly more striking, but it makes the 12C look more elegant than I remember it being.
When will manufacturers learn that black and silver wheels look tacky.
Why does the front have to look exactly the same as the P1 though.
It's confusing, and sadly unoriginal.
And the rear is basically the 12C...
Ik
280k for the spider, 12C is doomed.
You, Mr. Harris, should deffinately have your own TV-show. I'm looking forward to your reviews every week. You deliver as usual. Thank you. Never stop.
He has a TV show now
Mclaren made this 650S in response to Ferrari's Speciale. I'm afraid it lacks the appeal of Ferrari again, just like 12C did in comparison to 458. Instead of mixing the look of 2 different cars why could they not make a new look? One with a bit more appeal? Mclaren is so focused on performance they forget the other aspects of what makes a super car appealing.
to me I think whats under the shell is more appealing
natan3002s And it's generally what's under the shell of that Ferrari that makes it more appealing to drivers.
natan3002s
If it's ONLY what's under the shell then it's not a super car and shouldn't be marketed as a super car. Then buyers could buy track cars that are much cheaper for track use and a German power sedan for fast transport in comfort. It still would be for less than half the price.
People spend these kinda of money on stuff, anything this expensive, that are different then everything else, that are unique. You don't want to buy a Swiss watch for $10 grand with a true Swiss engineering inside but that looks like a Casio on the outside. What is the point? At these prices the design is as an important part as the rest of the car.
Regarding the inside I think Ferrari's master piece, the 4,5L NA engine that produces 600hp is more appealing than Mclaren's 3,8 twin turbo.
bezor Ta Wow finally a person that understands why the 458 is so special. Much like the GT3RS 4.0
Jeez, I could find a toaster with a more exciting name...
Ferrari 458...
Porsche 911... Mercedes SLS... Jaguar F-Type... Audi R8... Not many do actually have exciting names.
What is wrong with the modern auto-industry?
Why can't car manufacturers be more inventive and creative when naming cars?
The only ones that actually are named seem to be american, like the Mustang, Firebird, Corvette, Camaro, Charger etc.
Nick Linacre out of those names only SLS, F-Type ...... and may be R8 sounds like a serious car.
the long numbers after model name feel like some old Nokia mobile series that you cant remember the sequence of.
Also Farrari is just as messed up with its naming.
***** you mean the Ferrari LaFerrari? Coz that's a really dumb name xD
I do like McLaren. The 12C is a nice car. The P1 is an engineering masterpiece. This new 650S just seems a slightly tuned 12C.
If I had a choice between a Ferrari and McLaren, it would be a Ferrari. They look stunning, they sound superb and has a totally different character than the McLaren's.
For instance, the F12 Berlinetta. A massive naturally aspirated 6.3L V12. 8750 RPM. Ferrari have mapped the gearbox to 'surge/spike' the engine revs upon downshifts instead of a regular downshift, which results in a big V12 bark that keeps you wanting more.
The Ferrari 458. 4.5L Naturally aspirated, 9000 RPM. A soulful engine note, and a unique acceleration feel that rushes down your spine unlike any other supercar.
McLaren have focused too much on the engineering, rather turning it into something special.
(Not the perfect example I know) - Top Gear Season 20 Episode 3. James, Richard and Jeremy all said out of an Audi R8, McLaren 12C or 458 Spider they would have the 458, because it's got that extra something special. James owns a Ferrari 458.
BUT at the end of the day, it's all PERSONAL PREFERENCE.
i have to say i completely agree with you, Mclaren's are extremely focused on performance but they sound and look not even remotely close as good as a Ferrari or a Lambo that is just honestly, well at least imo
Great car, and it looks fine but honestly the design just seems lazy. They've just put the P1 front on the 12C body and called it a day. As car enthusiasts you expect a new design to shock you you and make you go wow that's amazing like the 458 did when it took over from the 430. It's just a little underwhelming
Would still prefer a Ferrari 458... Looks much prettier, more fun to drive, and sounds miles better.
I love the P1, but seeing that new front end on a 12C (Basically) just doesn't look right... From the front you're expecting one car, from the back you're expecting another... and it's neither. Oh well.
Ferrari 458 owners don't cry often, but when you've overpaid an Italian sportscar that now get's completely destroyed by a similar priced, more quailty car. Even i would cry if it was my money xD I also love how terrible orange cars look overall, but when it comes to Mclaren it looks better than anything :D
Great Film.. sorry you're not too well, trust things are better now.
The lergy was probably brought on by wearing those berluddy awful jeans my man.. they were shockers. That sadly is what you get when you let your womenfolk buy clothes for you.
If they say.. "they're all the rage.." run for it.!
Laughs
WF
Faster than the F1 & that cost over 2 million quid, to me see it looks different at the front but not really any better than 12 c, yes it is boring comparing the 458 with 12c or 650s because everyone says the same that the Ferrari just gives you more emotion more excitement ect, I'd still have the Ferrari 458 & that's why I'm going to book a track day in the 458 mind I'd still like a go in 650s
Ginger Ale, Chicken Noodle soup and a drive in a fine automoblie = I am getting better.
Very interesting to see how the car is built under the body panels.
What is Mclaren thinking??? a cheaper P1, with the butt of a 12c, with a price to compete against the 12c, though it isn't prettier than the 12c, yet imitative of the P1? You would drive 12c and P1 owners mad - you got the autistic love child the P1 and 12c gave birth to after they made love upside down
Already ? nice !!!
Sorry I'd rather have the 12C, cheaper and better looking. If you're going to facelift a vehicle, dont use the same front end of the P1 and leave the back virtually untouched, its just ugly.
The 12c looked so good aesthetically, and the p1 looked even better. But when you cut and paste the p1 fascia on the 12c it just doesn't work. I'm sorry but it just doesn't work McLaren
Respect.
The only good thing about the 650s is that I can finally afford the Mp4 12c.
@8:11. “We’ve got a New McLaren to drive...” 😂 -immediately starts drifting! Can he drive straight for once. 😂
He drifts so smooth though.
Its hideous, all modern mclarens are. I prefer the 458 (cliché I know), even more so the 911 gt3. As an absolute top of everything though, it would be the aston martin vantage v12, that car has more drama than anything else for sale on the road.
Indeed. It is not pretty. This update makes it even worse too.
Agreed , this is one of the most boring looking Supercar I've seen. But the guess some people like the understatedness or whatever.
This car is a McLaren 12C combined with a P1.
same here... i agree with Chris: face of the 12c is much nicer. The front of the 650s just is trying to hard to evoke emotions - artificial drama
at 8:45 when he says "new pistons" he sounds like an old fart down the old pub who's always saying hello to all the girls passing through. :D
The main problem of the 650S is that it has a P1 front and 12C back, they just can't be unified into one piece!
This was a very disappointing review , Chris is sick and the whole tone of the entire segment was that of malaise and the weather made it even worse..Worst Chris Harris review ever..He should have just not done it, because this is destined to be the standard that the other cars will have to meet
Such a boring car. I hate how they copied the P1's front. I prefer the 458 Speciale. And the 12c.
Love the Ascari Circuit!
Wow this mclaren looks like a mixture of the Mclaren P1 and the Mclaren 12c
I'm not too fond of the new look either, I think the nose should've been unique to the P1 because I rather enjoyed the look of the 12C